Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Suspect Killer of American High Schooler, Natalee Holloway, Heads to US Soil for Trial

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

It's been nearly two decades since Alabama teen Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba. Now, the man last seen with Holloway and also the man suspected of killing her will be extradited to the US. Joran van der Sloot will not be on trial for Holloway's murder however, but for extortion of money from her mother, Beth Holloway. Beth Holloway says van der Sloot reached out to an attorney promising to explain what happened to Natalee and lead authorities to the remains. He asked for $250,000, which was $25,000 wired to him as part of an FBI sting. This is the basis of the current wire fraud and extortion charges against him. Van der Sloot fled Aruba to Peru where he was arrested for the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores. She died five years, to the day, of Natalee’s disappearance. Joran van der Sloot was convicted and has been serving a 28-year prison sentence.   An extradition treaty with Peru is making temporary extradition possible.  Joining Nancy Grace today:  Dale Carson - High Profile Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, and Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County); Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself;" Twitter: @DaleCarsonLaw  Caryn Stark - Psychologist- Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder and Host of the new podcast: "Zone 7;", Twitter: @149Zone7   Irv Brandt - Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service- International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” (available on Amazon); Also: "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;" Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor   Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet;" Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @medcolegaldeath  Art Harris -Two-time Emmy-Winning Investigative Journalist See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I don't want to jinx it, but is it really happening? Is Jorn Vandersloot set to make his way, handcuffed and in leg shackles, of course, from Peru to the U.S., specifically a federal court in Birmingham, Alabama? This after years have passed since he murdered American sweetheart Natalie Holloway? Is it really happening? What, if anything, could throw a wrench in the works? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. How did it all start and how did we end up right here? Take a listen to Hour Cut 21.

When I first got the call that Natalie was missing, I was returning from, gosh, it was Memorial Day weekend. I was returning from my family's lake home and got the call that is the dreaded phone call that no parent ever expects to receive. And then I was traveling somewhere outside of Memphis, Tennessee between Hot Springs and coming into Birmingham. And the caller said that Natalie was missing and that no one had seen her and that she'd missed her flight. And in that instant, I knew. I knew instantly that something was terribly wrong

because it was just so out of character for Natalie. She's just not going to oversleep. She's not going to be, you know, lost somewhere in another room. So I knew instantly that she was,, being held against her will, or something even more tragic had happened to her. A mother's intuition turns out to be true yet again. You are hearing our friend Beth Holloway, Natalie's mother, speaking about the moment she learned Natalie was missing. We all believe at this point that Natalie was murdered the night she went missing at the hands of Judge's son, Jorn Vandersloot. So what does that have to

do with today? Take a listen to Hour Cut 76, our friends at CBS. 18-year-old Natalie Holloway disappeared while on a high school class trip to Aruba. Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with Jorn Vandersloot and two other men. No charges were ever filed in Holloway's disappearance. Her body has never been recovered. Now, Vandersloot could be extradited to the United States. Vandersloot is in Peru, serving a 28-year sentence for the 2010 murder of Peruvian student Stephanie Flores. Vandersloot is accused of trying to extort a quarter of a million dollars from Holloway's family, allegedly promising he would lead them to her body. Prosecutors say

Vandersloot collected $25,000 in cash and then lied about where she was buried. It's not clear when the extradition would take place. Vandersloot's attorney says he plans to fight it. In a statement, Natalie Holloway's mother thanked the president of Peru and U.S. officials. Oh, blah, blah, blah. He's going to fight it. This while Jorn Vandersloot is kicked back in a Peruvian jail where he can have all the alcohol, all the drugs, and all the sex he wants. He's even fathered a child behind bars in Peru. Of course he doesn't want to leave. Why would he? Why would he want to come to the U.S. and face justice? Joining me in All-Star Panel

to make sense of what we know right now, when is the ETA estimated time of arrival of Judge's son, Jorn Vandersloot? And remember, he didn't just murder Natalie Holloway and drag her mother through hell and back, even trying to extract a quarter of a million dollars from Beth to tell Beth what, quote, really happened to Natalie and where Natalie's remains are. But he actually took $25,000 from her. It's kind of a down payment on his big fat life. He also murdered another young woman, Stephanie Tosiana Flores, in Peru. Now, Peru got it right.

They prosecuted him and put him behind bars. Aruba never did a thing other than try to thwart the search for Natalie. Again, with me, an all-star panel to Emmy Award winning investigative journalist on the story from the very beginning, Art Harris, a longtime colleague and friend. Art, can you believe you and I pounding the pavement when Natalie goes missing, trying to find Natalie, trying to find the truth. And here we are. We're this close to getting Jorn Vandersloot on American soil. I'm in shock, Nancy. I mean, he has done everything to dodge the bullet.

And this is something that, you know, between all the jurisdictions, I never thought would see the day. But apparently we have an extradition treaty with, you know, with Peru, and therefore, they're going to try to honor it if the Justice Department agrees this week to return him in 30 days or within a certain period of time. You mean the U.S. DOJ bringing him here? Correct. And, you know, you'd think, Art Harris, that they would without any hesitation. But when has the U.S. government done what we thought they were going to do?

When has that ever happened? There are people languishing in jail across the seas that deserve far better treatment than the one in VanderSloot. And, you know, we still haven't gotten any of them back. So it's sort of a miracle that he's even kept dancing his way towards justice. And I'll tell you, the only reason he's made this far, Art Harris, is because Natalie's mother is still on it. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friends at NBC. Natalie Holloway's family hoping to finally get some justice

for the 18-year-old who was on a high school graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished in 2005. There is still no sign of American Natalie Holloway. In a case that made headlines around the world, Joran Vandersloot, who police say left a club with Natalie the night she was last seen, can now be extradited to the U.S. To face federal charges, he tried to extort a quarter million dollars from the teen's mother in 2010. You know, it's interesting, Art Harris, who's been on the search for Natalie since she first went missing in Aruba. Why now? And I mean, I'm not kicking a gift horse in the mouth. I'm curious. Why now? The wheels of justice somehow turned slowly and finally clicked. And it baffles me. I think, you know, her mother kept pushing

and the perusing government, I think, is a little more open to getting him out of it. Maybe just got tired of him making all the headlines and drawing all the heat to their situation. I mean, he's been a drug dealer in prison, living the high life there, and who knows what kind of message that sends to people. Hey, come to our country, we'll catch you, we'll bust you like they did him in prison,

and you'll still get to live high on the hog. You know what hurt me so much, Art Harris, when I recently went back to Aruba with Beth to try to uncover more information to see if we could shake the trees, see if anything fell, find something new, dig up something old. We didn't know what we were looking at. We just went looking. They treated us like pariah. They threatened to arrest us. They followed us all over the island, tailed us like we were

criminals. And that was just a small taste of what Natalie's mother, Beth, endured when she was trying to find Natalie to start with. You were there. Could you just describe for everybody the way Aruba treated Natalie's family and the Americans there trying to find Natalie? At every turn, they would bust them. They would make her sit in their waiting room, a small room in the police department. I don't think it had air conditioning for hours on end, whole days while they supposedly searched the files and went around and checking sources.

They did nothing. And they totally turned their back on her and anyone interested in finding the truth because the truth led back to, we believe total corruption. The father who was a sitting local judge is the one who went to bat for his son. And, you know, this was a kid who had money. He had connections. And who knows what else he had on other people.

But they were treated like dirt, like you were, Nancy. Maybe even worse. But it was different for me, Art. I didn't have a dog in the fight, no skin in the game. Cheryl McCollum is with me right now, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, and star of a new hit series, which

I love, called Zone 7 Podcast. Cheryl, it didn't bother me at all to have a little, let's just say, altercation with the Reuben authorities. She, Beth, had a lot on the line at the time. She was looking for her daughter.

I didn't have that constraint when they bothered us. Correct. And, you know, I remember something Beth said at the time. She said, if they lock me up, good. I'll have their undivided attention for three days to talk to them and ask them questions so she was undeterred as well um and she even told us at the time it was a very different trip to aruba for her for the first time going there she felt empowered so it was nice to see that transformation in her that she was no longer intimidated or afraid. She went there with

the full gusto, arrest me, don't arrest me, ban me from the Holiday Inn for life. It's not going to stop her. No, we were not concerned about getting arrested. I can say at least that much. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Another thing we've got to keep in mind, and let me go out to a special guest joining us, Irv Brandt, Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service. All over the world, he has worked for for Department of Justice in international affairs. He's the author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone on Amazon. He's also author of, what's the name of your other Jack Solo book,

Irv Brandt? It's Top of the World, also. Right, that's right. So there's Top of the World and Curse of the Blue Stone, both Solo shot. Irv, thank you for being with us. And of course, what a background you've got for writing international books. One thing I got to keep in mind is we're not dealing with Aruba, who they are not worth the salt that goes in their bread after the way they treated Beth. Beth and then threatening us, telling us, harassing us the whole time that we were there,

just trying to talk to witnesses and return to locations and look at it with a fresh eye. It was insane. But that said, Natalie was kidnapped and murdered on their watch, and they never lifted a finger. In fact, they aided and abetted Jorn Vandersloop getting away. They covered for him and his father, the judge, covered for him and they let it happen. But we're not dealing with them now. It's a whole nother ballgame, Irv Brandt. It's Peru. Because then he immediately goes to Peru five years to the day murder Stephanie Tassiano Flores. Now, here's the thing I'm wondering if everyone's saying, why now? I'm wondering about the statute of limitations on fraud. Because in this case, he's not charged with murder.

He's charged with fraud. As a matter of fact, before you get started, take a listen to our friends at NBC. Vandersloat was never charged in Holloway's disappearance, but is currently serving a 28-year sentence after pleading guilty to killing Stephanie Flores in Peru on the five-year anniversary of Holloway's disappearance. That country's new president now agreeing to the temporary extradition. VanderSloot is accused of offering to tell Natalie's family how she died

and where she was buried in exchange for the money. Authorities say he was given an initial payment of $25,000. He took her attorney to a site he said the body was located at, but the body wasn't there. And he subsequently acknowledged that in emails. An attorney for Vander Sloot tells the Associated Press they will fight extradition. Okay, this is what we know. We know that your Vander Slo Associated Press they will fight extradition. Okay, this is what we know. We know that Jorn Vandersloot's lawyer wants to fight extradition. It's my understanding, Irv Brandt, that for federal fraud, the statute is 10 years.

That could be why suddenly this is coming to fruition now. That could be a reason. What do you think? Well, Nancy, yes. It's my understanding that once the charges have been indicted, the clock doesn't begin because he's in custody in Peru. Yep, you're right. And it's very much like when you have someone in state custody

and then the feds charge that person, indict that person. Then you bring that person into court on writ of habeas corpus. And you're just borrowing them from state custody. And as soon as the trial's over, you're going to send them back to state custody. This is the same thing, except it's with countries instead of jurisdictions. So are you saying the U.S. statute of limitations did not start running when he was indicted on wire fraud and extortion on Natalie's mom? Correct.

Okay, that makes perfect sense. So that leads me back around to the question, why now? Now, there's a lot of theories out there, but I want to hear what they're telling us from WBRC Fox 6. The first step will be an extradition hearing in Peru, where Johan van der Sloot could try to fight this. Even so, town expects him to be back on U.S. soil within the month. Then van der Sloot will be brought to the federal courthouse here in Birmingham, where he will be arraigned, assigned an attorney, and then held in custody until his trial. That could be anywhere between two and five months. So Irv Brandt, how is it going to go down? What's going to happen is, since it's been approved, extradition has been approved, that the Peruvian government is willing to turn over Vandals for the U.S. to prosecute them, then return them back to Peru.

Okay, wait. So you're saying the extradition is a temporary extradition in that Peru is going to allow the U.S. to pay for him to be extradited, brought to U.S. soil to be tried on wire fraud and extortion of Natalie's mother. Extortion. And then he will either do time here or he will be sent back to Peru, and that's between the two countries. I predict he will stay in the U.S.

No, Nancy, he won't stay in the U.S. He's going to be returned after he is after his trial. I mean, unless anything happens to him in jail. Well, that's absolutely correct. In the U.S. In the federal penitentiary. In the U.S., which could happen. Hold on, Irv.

A power greater than yours is intervening. Go ahead, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, she'll just keep trying to break in until you let her in. So you just might as well let her in. Go ahead, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, she'll just keep trying to break in until you let her in. So you just might as well let her in. Go ahead. Well, I think it's important for people to understand we're not going to get an itinerary. This thing is what we call a bus ride. He ain't even going to know when he's leaving.

He's all of a sudden going to be taken out of his cell. The next thing he knows, he's going to be on an airplane. Next thing he knows, he's going to be in a jail cell in birmingham it's going to be fast and it's going to be anybody can i break back in okay i've conducted and supervised thousands of international extraditions and i have also done it from peru they're going to issue a surrender warrant to the Office of International Affairs. Once International Affairs receives that surrender warrant, typically they're going to do it within 30 days. Okay, hold on right there. Who issues who a surrender warrant?

The Ministry of Justice in Peru has agreed to the extradition. And once a surrender warrant for Vandaslut is issued and it's received by the DOJ Office of International Affairs, either the United States Marshal Service or the FBI will make arrangements to bring Vandas Sloot back to the United States. Now, they're not going to announce it and they're not going to give any details for security reasons, but it's been my experience that they're going to use, the FBI would either

use one of their jets or the U.S. Marshal Service would charter a jet. You mean a civilian jet? That's correct. The U.S. Marshal Service would charter a jet. The a civilian jet that's correct the u.s. Marshal Service would charter a jet the FBI has jets I don't know they have jets with that kind of range from Birmingham but since it's a formal extradition it's it's not an issue you can transit you could refuel in other countries also US cities because the venue has been established you don't have to worry about landing in like let's say miami and having to do a rule 40 hearing in miami what's a rule 40 hearing i'm a state prosecutor i'm a gunslinger i don't know all your federal numbers and rules it's an identity hearing uh that a defendant's entitled to to show the government to prove that he is the person

not just the name but the person himself uh being extradited but this wouldn't be the case since it's a formal extradition and they have a surrender warrant got. So let me recap this. Peruvian Ministry of Justice agrees to the extradition. They provide a surrender warrant to the U.S. Department of Justice. Then once that has happened, the FBI will either send their jet or the U.S. Marshals will use a commandeer civilian jet and go get him. And Peru is basically saying, hey, he's yours, COD, cash on delivery. You can't transport him. We're not interested. So then we go get him. We bring him home, maybe stop for refueling, get him to the federal court in Birmingham. And then he goes and cools his heels in a U.S. holding facility until he goes to trial. Is that right? That's correct. Then once the trial is concluded, the United States Marshal Service

would return him to Peru to be in a local jail. Who's jumping in? Be in a local jail because the FBI and the government, they don't have jails. He's not going to be in a state jail. No, he would be in United States Marshal Service custody. Yeah. And they contract.

Right. Well, they contract with either private facilities or local jails. Okay, gotcha. Guys, we were talking about the return of Jorn Vandersloot to U.S. soil. What, if anything, can be proven? Now, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but believe it or not, somehow woven in to this cobbled proceeding is a fake stab wound. Yes. Take a listen to our

friends at AP. His lawyer claims prisoners are purposely targeting him. The inmates have realized that if anything were to happen to Joran Vandersloot, for example, if Joran Vandersloot were to die, as a consequence, the prison would close. And this is what they are trying to do, close the prison. And to do this, they are using Yorin Vandersloot as a guinea pig. Prison officials deny the claims, saying Vandersloot has superficial wounds on his abdomen that were probably self-inflicted. So Yorin Vandersloot has self-inflicted wounds? For what reason? What do you know about that, Cheryl McCollum? You know, it was probably a ploy to get to another prison himself. We know that he was running cocaine out of the prison.

Maybe he had a better business opportunity somewhere else. Literally, it was self-serving, that I can guarantee. Okay, to Art Harris, what, if anything, do you know about his self-inflicted stab wound? And what antics like that could stop this extradition? Well, there's always the medical facility that he might get sent to and who knows what he'd have access to there. But that would also could also throw a wrench in the extradition timing. And, you know, there are a lot of tools to self inflict yourself with in prison. But usually, if something is, you know, if someone is stabbed or has those kind of wounds, it's the real thing and it's over. Because prisoners know how to go for the jugular, so to speak, and he would not be here. So, you know, I don't put much stock in it being an attack from someone else.

I remember distinctly when it happened, the bloodied polo shirt, yes, polo shirt, Jorn Vandersloot was wearing behind bars when he was stabbed, stabbed by fellow inmates. He said, and according to his then wife, he was stabbed multiple times by other inmates. As it turned out, it was one stab wound that was self-inflicted. Karen Stark joining me, high-profile psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen with a C. c what about that this is the level to which he will sink to get what he wants he stabbed himself in the stomach to get some sort of preferred treatment or even transfer in peruvian in the peruvian jail system nancy that's not a surprise at all if you look at the things that this guy is capable of doing he really like

taking a grieving mother and not caring about the fact that her daughter is dead and she just wants to know where she's located heartless he has absolutely no conscience he will do whatever it takes to try and get attention, sympathy, things going his way. So he's capable of anything. That I'm not surprised about at all. Well, another thing to you, Art Harris, Emmy Award winning investigative journalist at artherriss.com, the moment he was stabbed behind bars, his wife immediately took to the airwaves about him being stabbed, hopefully to get preferential treatment. So that's what that was all about.

And I don't put it beyond him to try another stunt like that to avoid extradition to the U.S. Anything can happen with him. We know he's a sociopath, a psychopath, a killer who has no problem meeting a girl at a casino and then going back to the room and stabbing her when he finds out she's been peeking at his computer. So this is someone who is just beyond what profilers might construct if they were to create a fictional, you know, Jorn Vandersloot. You know, he surpasses all the evil that you can muster. Well, at first it was claimed to be multiple stab wounds, three inches deep each, by inmates on Jorn Vandersloot. Then it turned into two stab wounds, two inches deep. And then it turned in.

Oh, and the wife managed to go behind bars and, quote, smuggle out his bloody shirt to show it to the press. Then it turns out it was all self-inflicted. So I don't know what they're going to pull next. I do know this, back to Irv Brandt, Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, that there is talk of his lawyer filing a habeas corpus motion to throw a wrench in the works. What do you know about that, and how would that work? Nancy, that's always a possibility when it comes to formal extraditions. The host country, the country with the defendant currently has an appeal system that lawyers can go through. But the president of Peru has already signed off. So I don't know what kind of appeals he has left. I'm sure he'll file an appeal, but whether that'll stop him being turned over to U.S. authorities, that remains to be seen.

I find it highly unlikely that it's going to, if it is delayed, it won't be delayed long. So what is he looking at in the U.S. and how are we going to prove it? Take a listen to our friends at Fox 6. As soon as he's sentenced, Van der Sloot will be flown back to Peru to finish the murder sentence he is currently serving, which ends in 2040. The most he could face in the U.S. is 50 years on these charges. Any sentence that he gets is going to be a very close to a life sentence for Yoram Vandersloot. And look, he deserves every inch of American justice, every ounce of American justice that we can give him. And when he's finally released from the Peruvian prison and he does all of his time in the Bureau of Prisons for the United States, he still has hell to look forward to. He certainly does. That was Jay

Towne speaking right there. Joining me right now, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a new hit series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. So Scott, thank you for being with us. Joe Scott, I think that having him in the U.S. and the long period of time it will take to prepare his trial could only benefit

the U.S. and Natalie's mother Beth. How are we going to prove the charges against him, the charges on U.S. soil, still not a murder charge and do you ever think we're gonna have enough evidence to determine where is natalie and what happened to her very difficult to do nancy uh you know i think the closest i come to this thinking about what happened to natalie and you know where her remains wound up this is

a 70 square mile island I know you've been there Cheryl's been there this is as horrible as this is to say this is a one of the most diverse populations of apex predators in the oceans you've got more shark species down there than any other location. There's an indication she may have been taken out in a boat, her remains, and they were disposed of out there. To this point, there has been no physical evidence. I think that at one point in time, the FBI found some hair that turned out to be a big fat zero. And of course, there was the stuff with the bone fragments that uh the the forensic lab

in netherlands examined there was a jaw along with teeth and even based upon what they found with the bone fragments they couldn't determine if it was male or female and this is the point with that physical evidence they could not tie it back biologically to Natalie. And, you know, and I can only imagine, you talk about, you know, the shakedown artist, this guy, this animal, you know, it required on the part of Beth to her to surrender a piece of herself. You know, she's holding on to hope that this child is still alive. She has to give up a dna sample and of course it was it was a goose chase um and and then the shakedown you

know it comes to that point i think the one point of leverage in this is that he will be in the united states and we know that you know as art had mentioned this guy is just rife with all kinds of psychological issues. If they can leverage him in some way while he is here to come up with some kind of indication as to where he deposited her remains, I have no doubt that he brought about her death. It's just the reality of trying to determine where on that little plot of land down there he disposed of her. We keep talking about Aruba, or at least I do, being complicit in Natalie's death and then not helping her family at all. They knew what was happening with Jorn Vandersloot. Natalie Holloway was by far not his first victim.

Take a listen to Hour Cut 60. This is Bob Plummer talking to me. A chaperone on the trip, that ill-fated senior trip, Natalie went but never came back. Listen. Jorn, he was in the casino every night in the resort as well. So he was already in contact, you know, or seeing and around our students, you know, pretty much every night from the first night we got there. So I'm pretty sure that's where he first made contact with any of our students before they even went to Carlos and Charlie's, and then probably heard that that's where they were going each night and somehow ended up there with them each night.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dale Carson joining me, high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, Florida, and former Fed with the FBI, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. And you can find him at DelCarsonLaw.com. Del, everybody knew Jorn Vandersloot would go to the casinos and the bars, slip the young female tourist roofies, and take them away to rape them. Everybody knew that. It's not even a secret. They didn't try to keep it a secret, yet they did nothing. Well, it doesn't surprise me because those islands, and I worked in that situation for a number of years,

islanders are very insular, and statesiders, when they come, are looked down upon. And it doesn't take you long living on an island to know where you can throw trash in the water, and it goes away. And certainly at the north end of the island where the lighthouse is, is a known area. The water is 26 fathoms deep just right off shore and and everybody on an island over the centuries would know precisely where you want to throw a dead hog or a dead cow to get it off the island and so it's not surprising to me at all that there's no body to be recovered and in the virgin islands we have a number of unsolved stateside cases where individuals have flown down there.

They've gotten involved with the local groups and disappeared, never to be found again. It's an island. And you don't need to bury something in the sand where it's going to come back. You just know where to place it. And it's a horrible situation where predators who live on these islands, they're not going to talk to other people. Islanders, again, are very insular. They don't care for statesiders. And they know that they're going to live on that island for the rest of their lives. And they're certainly not going to explain their behavior or the behavior of others who live with them on the islands to the general public and not to the police.

Well, you're right about all that. It's stunning to me, Art Harris, that they, the authorities, knew Jorn Vandersloot had this M.O., modus operandi, method of operation, and they did nothing. So this was just like another day at the office for jordan vandersloot you got to remember nancy they had the judge his dad was a judge and who you know who was looking over their shoulder who they allowed to look over their shoulder and knew what the next move by police were probably at every second so he could set up an easy escape plus when you go back to himself was arrested in connection with all of this by local law enforcement

because they knew he was connected with the son. Well, guys, wait a minute. It's more than just the dad watching over and keeping Jorn Vandersloot out of trouble. It's more than that. The father, Paulus Vandersloot, the judge, was at the casino the night Natalie goes missing. Take a listen to our cut, 63.

He was seated, Natalie, and then Yaron is on the farther right side. But you can even see Natalie's slant of her body position spoke volumes to me because she was leaning towards her friend. When you saw her, what went through your mind? So while I'm at the Holiday Inn talking to the night manager, and then they're arranging for me to view the security footage because I was trying to find out, I wanted to get a visual of who this person that Natalie was last seen with. I needed to see him because some of Natalie's friends were saying that his name was like, they had part of his name and I can't remember what part they had. Then the night manager was able to confirm his entire name because she said, oh yeah, we know you're on

Vander Sloot. He prays, that's what she described him as, prays upon American females is what she said. Everybody knew. Everybody knew. So it was a common M.O. I recently commented that Jorn Vandersloot had sex assaulted Natalie Holloway. And I was met with a firestorm of complaints

claiming, and I understand this, since her body was never found, why do you believe she was sex assaulted? Well, this is why. Take a listen to our Cut 67. I finally got two Aruban police officials to accompany us to his home. In that early morning hour, it began to get heated because Yaron began to describe to the men from home about the sexual activity

that he engaged in with Natalie in the backseat of the car. They were very graphic. I could just probably safely say just very sexually explicit activity that he was engaging with her in the backseat of the car. And he's saying that she's falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up. So they're hearing that she's drugged and that she's, I mean, this is against her will because she can't choose her free will. And so after that happened, then Yaron was insistent that after all that activity that engaged him with her,

he took her back to the Holiday Inn Hotel and dropped her off. Well, that's not true. Cheryl McCollum, do you recall Beth telling us that Yaron Vandersot's father actually was at the casino. Yes. Not only was he at the casino, again, he knew his son was underage. He knew what his practice was there. He knew that everybody at the hotel, the restaurant, and the casino knew how old he was and knew the game he was running on tourists because he would not approach

them or assault them until the night before they were set to leave. So what he knew is this victim was not going to stay on this island to press charges. She was going to, you know, make her flight to go home because all that had been prearranged and paid for. So he had this down to a science of he would meet them, befriend them. He would lie about where he was from. He would say he was from the Netherlands. He would lie about his age.

He would act like he didn't know the area either. And all of this was just part of his M.O. To Art Harris, you were on the ground at the very beginning, and you've been through so much trying to find the answer to what happened to Natalie Holloway. What do you think? Well, I think that he had the whole formula down, as Cheryl said. He had the woofies ready. He had whatever he slipped in their drinks.

He knew how much to make them unconscious enough to let him lead them away. And there are probably other, I heard rumors of other bodies that we don't even know about. I mean, if you wanted to put the word out and really make Aruba upset, you know, have billboards, don't let your daughter go to the island of death and have Natalie's picture up there. Whether Natalie's remains will ever be found is a question that hangs over the current investigation and soon-to-be prosecution in a U.S. court of law for extortion and wire fraud,

trying to bleed Natalie's mother dry of a quarter million dollars in exchange for the truth about her daughter. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.