Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - ‘Suspected Serial Killer’ of Homeless People Nabbed in Miami: Cops

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

Three homeless people fall victim to a serial killer in Miami. Two victims were shot, two hours apart. One died. The other survived after police are alerted by a witness who flagged down an officer reporting a person with a head wound. The third victim was stabbed to death earlier in the year, and connected to the shootings by an officer who notice a link between the two. That link was a black vehicle. Willy Suarez Maceo, 25, a Miami area real estate agent, owner of the car, has been charged.Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney, The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., www.ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Shari Schwartz - Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy), www.panthermitigation.com, Twitter: https://twitter.com/TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect" Chris Byers - Former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner,  www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com  Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference David Ovalle - Crime Reporter, Miami Herald, Twitter: @davidovalle305, MiamiHerald.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Fear grips the city of Miami as rumors circulate that a serial killer is stalking its residents. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at NBC6. Two men shot two hours apart at two different locations. Both victims homeless.

The first shot around 8 p.m. near I-95 and Southwest 2nd Avenue. He is still in the hospital. That individual is in extreme critical condition and is being treated at Jackson Memorial Hospital in trauma. The second victim shot just before 10 near North Miami Ave and 21st Street. Police say they got video. A black vehicle had driven up to a location where the victim was laying down on the ground and shot at him several times. Police also believe he's responsible for a deadly stabbing of a homeless person in October near Edgewater. This is a witness from that day whose car was held up in the crime scene. They told me I couldn't have my vehicle because it had blood splatter and it had to be fingerprinted because there was a fight. There was some type of struggle and they thought that the car had to have fingerprints on it.

Now they think it's possible other homeless people may have suffered. Who would drive up in a fancy black car and take pot shots at homeless people, killing them, just shooting them dead, like they're playing one of those games at a carnival where you shoot and shoot and shoot and then you get the big fluffy animal as the prize. The city of Miami in shock as one after the next person is killed. And as you heard our friend Jamie Garula speaking from NBC, one of the victims was actually lying down asleep on the ground. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know so far. James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro major case, now lawyer with the ShelnutLawFirm.com. Dr. Sherry Swartz, forensic psychologist, author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect.

Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, 25 years on the force, private investigator and polygrapher at chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com. Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida at PathCareMed.com, esteemed lecturer at University of Florida Medical School, and founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. But first, I want to go out to a special guest joining us, David Valle, joining us from the Miami Herald. David, I can only imagine what all the residents of Miami thought when they wake up in the morning and look on their iPad or read

their paper that yet another person has been shot. Tell me about when you first learned that somebody, typically in a black vehicle, would just drive up and shoot down a homeless person dead. Well, you know, the funny thing was it was sort of a dead period of news that, you know, it's right toward the end of the year around Christmas time. And so it kind of went under the radar a little bit. You know, it's one of those kind of curiosity type of things.

Like, oh, someone's been shot in Wynwood. Wynwood is like a very touristy type of area. That's, you know. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You know, David Avalle with Miami Herald just brought up a really good point that these shootings were in a very, as he said, touristy area. And he's right. You know, there's a lot of money floating around Miami, David Avayate, because every time I look at the Daily Mail or Page Six, somebody is having a multimillion dollar house being bought or sold. You have all those stars moving down there, celebrities. They're always throwing all the bashes that you see the Kardashians at. I mean, what is the draw of all these rich celebs to

Miami, David? Well, I think it's the image of the Miami lifestyle, right? You have the- You mean dope dealers? No, we've... Sorry. That is, of course, always one of the major draws here. But I think you have, you know, the celebrity scene, the art scene, the party scene, which is, of course, the huge major draw. And of course, the weather, right? Right now, it's, you know, 85 degrees out in the middle of January. So I think it's just a little bit of a little bit of everything that's captured, you know, the the imaginations of people from all over the world for many years. And so you get here and then you have someone going along taking pot shots at

people on the street. It certainly was a disconcerting story in the beginning. You know, David, I got to quit saying pot shots. I said it first because this is murder. When you say taking a pot shot, it's kind of airbrushing what's really happening. Shooting innocent people that are standing there or lying there dead from your car where you have all the power, you have all the control like a sniper. Hey, David Avaya, everybody joining me from one of my favorite publications, the Miami Herald. David, where is Fisher Island as it relates to Miami? Fisher Island is a really wealthy enclave island just off the tip of South Beach.

So it's really like you have to take the ferry to get there. Only the richest of the rich live in Fisher Island. So when you're talking about South Beach, you're talking about how far away is that from downtown Miami or where these shootings are taking place? Well, these shootings took place in the city of Miami. So you have the city of Miami, which is, you know, the sort of iconic, you know, skyscrapers and financial buildings and condos. So that's in sort of like, I guess what we call the mainland. And you have to go across the causeway to the sort of barrier islands. And that's where you have Miami Beach, which is a separate city, a separate municipality.

And that's where you have the really iconic Ocean Drive with the Art Deco buildings and the party scene and, you know, sort of the nightclub scene that we've seen depicted in movies and TV shows. So City of Miami, distinct, distinct area. But also when you think of like Little Havana, Little Haiti, some, you know, of course, the downtown financial district and banking district and all that, all of that is City of Miami. I love Little Havana there. Do you remember the program Dexter? I never actually watched it, although I have friends that worked on it as police department advisors. Wasn't that set in Miami? It was. It was set in Miami. It was with the Miami Dade Police where the, I believe.

That is one of the shows that got me through my pregnancy along with Mystery Woman. I binged on Dexter to get through my very perilous pregnancy. So there you go, David. So I'm trying to get, wait now, wait a minute. Isn't Miami where Scott Disick's always hanging out with another teen girl? There's always a celebrity hanging out with a

teen girl or an entourage somewhere in Miami. Now, let me clarify. I don't mean teen as in younger than 16. I mean teen as in like 19. Because I'm imagining Scott Disick sprawled out on a lounge chair with his new girlfriend, whoever she may be, and then not too far away, this guy gunning down innocent victims. I mean, the dichotomy. Let me throw that to you, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist joining us. Dr. Sherry, the dichotomy of all that money and all that natural beauty

juxtaposed against someone who apparently with no real motive, such as revenge or anger or double dealing or bar fight, is just gunning down innocent people to whom they have no connection. And then, you know, a mile over, you've got all of this opulence and all of this beauty. That's kind of a a mind twist right very much so nancy and as you know i'm in miami beach so i'm a miami resident and what you described is the landscape of miami perfectly the the wealthy of the most wealthy of the wealthy, the opulence, the glamour, this idea that it's paradise. And it is in some ways. Oh, it's beautiful.

Very gritty underbelly. Right. And the thing is, with serial killers, the motivation is always psychological gratification of some sort. OK, Dr. Sherry, hold on. Hit the brakes. Slow down for me, because you and Gallagher, you get going so fast. I can't take it all in. Now, what did you just say about motivation? And look, first of all,

let me just say, I don't care. I had to learn that the hard way. I spent about the first seven years, five to seven years as a prosecutor. And when the jury wasn't in the room, I'd look over at the defendant and think, why would he, she do this? Why would they do this? And then after spending a lot of time and inordinate amount of time trying to figure out why, it just hit me one day in court. Why ask why? I've got to prove jurisdiction and who did it. That's what I've got to do. That is my duty. But out of just curiosity, occasionally, I do wonder why in the world. So what were you saying about motive? Why serial killers do what they do, Dr. Sherry Schwartz? At the base of it, it's all about psychological gratification. That's the motivation. And that's the most terrifying thing, because it could be the average person next to you at the supermarket, you know, in line at the bank, you know, things like that. But it's all about they have something going on psychologically

that murder is the way to satisfy that, that need. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. James Shelnut, 27 years Metro Major case. Did you hear what Dave Avalle said, reporter with the Miami Herald, that this was in a touristy area? It's like opening fire at Disney, for Pete's sake. That's where all the tourists are. Why are you laughing? I take my children to Disney all the time, every time we

can afford it. Have you seen how much it costs now? Ouch. But the fact that there are innocent tourists around that are flooding into the city, pumping money into the economy, and this person, and you know it's a man, right? I mean, how many female serial snipers have ever gotten caught? Zero. So go ahead with that. I can tell you right now it's a man. But what about that, Shelnut, the fact that this is going down in a tourist area you know if you're not from that area okay you have to think this is not the prime selection point if you don't want to get caught but a lot of times when people do this they are doing it in

an area that they feel familiar with and that area good point area oftentimes is an anchor point for them and an anchor point can be an area that they live and they're very familiar with it, where they work, where they went to school. But they have some connection with that area that makes them comfortable enough to do this in this area. That's a really good point. And I always point out, for instance, Scott Peterson. Where did he dump his wife and unborn child, Lacey and Connor? At a place that was basically his fishing hole. If you look at crimes and the disposal of bodies as a body of work, you'll see that very often, if not a large majority of time, killers function within an area they are familiar, just as Shelnut just said. And to you, Chris Byers, former police chief at Johns Creek, now at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph,

Chris, I've dealt with a lot of killers, as have you. I mean, literally thousands of killers. A sniper is a whole nother can of worms. That's a whole different animal. Somebody that remains out of the fray. It's not up close and personal, like killing, like a stabbing or a point blank shooting or strangulation, be it ligature or manual. This is somebody that sits back, as in this case, as David Valle is telling us, sits back in his luxury black sedan and takes shots at innocent people who don't see it coming. One actually lying there asleep in the warm Miami temperature. What kind of a mindset is that? This is a special kind of evil in your mind that it takes to do something like this to just innocent people and your homeless people who, you know, can't really defend themselves and are, you know, some of the weakest in society and you're picking on them. And it just takes a completely depraved evil mind in my observation to do something like this.

And, you know, back to you, David Valle joining us, crime reporter with the Miami Herald. You can find him at MiamiHerald.com. David, very often with the homeless, you know, I've worked with for many years trying to feed them and give them shelter. David, very often at a distance, you can't tell if you would be shooting a man, a woman, or a teen. Because even in warm weather, they very often are bundled up with layers and layers of clothing and head coverings, sometimes gloves, even in warm weather. So this guy doesn't know if he's shooting a man, woman, or teen. Right, that's correct. And also, what was also challenging was the first people who responded to the scenes,

they were unsure exactly what had happened to these victims because they couldn't tell. They could just see some sort of trauma. They didn't know the backstory because it was so random and in public. You know what's interesting, David, if I had just thought of it. The other day I was working on a new book. It's a murder mystery. And my son and my daughter, believe it or not, are always giving me ideas. Now that could be scary. But my son said, you know what would be a perfect thing for a serial killer is to shoot people that nobody would notice or they don't have their family they're talking to every day, like people on the side of the road, like homeless people. And they could sit out there forever and no one would even know that they had been shot. And that is exactly what you're telling me, David.

Explain that to me one more time, please. Well, in this case, they believe the victims had no ties to the suspect. So they were just being sort of shot indiscriminately. I mean, it wasn't as if there was anything that provoked the attacks. So, yeah, they believe it was absolutely, you know, random and not with any rhyme or reason that we could tell. Guys, take a listen to our friend Joel Waldman at CBS Miami. These murders, according to police, happened within two hours on Tuesday night. The first was on the 400 block of Southwest Second Avenue.

The victim there survived. Police say he is in horrible shape. He's at Jackson Memorial and there is a good chance he will not make it. And then about two hours after that person was shot, police say another gentleman was shot in the Wynwood area. It turns out that both victims in this case were homeless and police say that in at least one of the instances, the shooter fired the weapon from the car without even getting out. Now, police are also eyeing the shooter in another homicide back on October 16th. This was the stabbing of a homeless person.

They would not get into details, but say that an investigator working on that case noticed something that connected Tuesday night's murder and attempted murder to this stabbing back in October, October 16th. Okay, right there to Dr. Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. This is in your backyard, Gallagher. That could throw a lot of people for a loop right there, because many people do not expect a serial killer to change their M.O. or to stray from their typical modus operandi method of operation. But that is not true. It has been proven over and over again. I mean, look at Ted Bundy.

Some people he would strangle. Some people he would bludgeon. Yes, a lot of his victims looked very similar, but there were different MOs and his method deteriorated over time. So the fact that we've got a couple of people shot and then one stabbed, potentially connected to the same serial killer, that does not faze me at all. I want you to tell us what these people would have endured, Dr. Tim Gallagher, the shooting, and then sitting out in the open and nobody really understanding what's happened to you. You're bleeding out and nobody around you knows what's happened to you.

Well, you know, Miami has a very special spot in my heart. Actually, I did my training in Miami. I lived there for many years and quite familiar with the surrounding areas and the dichot couple of major organs, for instance, the lungs or the heart, the victim will pass out probably within 15 to 30 seconds and then expire certainly within three minutes. So they're suffering. I'm trying to figure out how long they would suffer before they passed away, Dr. Gallagher. Well, typically, you know, we find that 30 seconds, after about 30 seconds or so, they will lose consciousness. And then, theoretically, I guess suffering would end at about that time. But it's a very painful moment up until they lose the point of consciousness. You know, I've heard a lot of people, I've heard a lot of people that have been shot said,

I didn't even feel it. How is that possible? It depends upon what they're doing at the time. If they have a lot of adrenaline running through their body, that tends to mask pain until they eventually relax a little bit and then the nerve sensation begins to start again. So it just depends on what they're doing at the time they were shot. If they're very active, the adrenaline is coursing through their body, that chemical in their body will dull the pain or stop the nervous impulse of pain so they can escape or fight that fight-or-flight syndrome so they can escape or fight their way out of a situation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Dr. Gallagher, as I was asking you earlier, again, this is in your backyard, regarding a serial killer changing M.O.s. Have you ever seen that before? You know, I have not. But I do tell you, there are so many programs on TV now that show how these serial killers are caught using the same M.O. over and over again. So a learned serial killer might take note of this and then change his MOs. But typically, no, you don't see that at all, especially shooting versus stabbing. You know, that's to stab someone, you really have to be close to them. It's very personal. Whereas shooting, you know, you have that distance. It's very impersonal. And what about that, Shelnut, a serial killer changing M.O.s?

Yeah, you know, a lot of times, you know, and I agree, I have not worked a case where a serial killer changed an M.O. But I will tell you that a lot of times on that first killing, the serial killers are often intelligent people. They look and see and evaluate what went wrong. And if, for instance, in a stabbing, you know, they cut themselves and they thought, hey, I'm leaving evidence at the scene, my own blood, my own DNA at the scene, they're intelligent enough to switch to another method to avoid detection and avoid leaving that evidence. And to you, Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, have you ever seen a serial killer change M.O.s? Because I have. But typically, I would say they don't.

Yeah, no, I would have to say typically they don't. I've never seen it. Totally agree with what Shalmette is saying, that they're intelligent and could make changes for what they're doing. But no, I have never personally seen that. I mean, I mentioned Ted Bundy, but then, of course, Israel Keyes is one of the worst serial killers there ever was. He strangled, he bludgeoned, he shot. He would have murder kits stashed all around the country, would always pick victims to whom he was not connected in any way. And we still don't know how many people Keyes murdered. I first became

involved with Israel Keyes with the murder of an Alaskan barista named Samantha Koenig, who was kidnapped out of her coffee stand and assaulted, raped, murdered. He actually posed her body, stitching her eyelids open for a ransom note, but he never used a ransom note in any other case. He would identify his prey. They could be in a home. There was an elderly couple that he attacked, kind of in a remote, their remote home and rural area. He would hunt in RV camps and campgrounds. I mean, so his MO along with Bundy's very often changed depending on the circumstances surrounding the time when he felt the urge to kill. Sometimes it was sex motivated. He wanted to rape somebody. Sometimes he wanted money. Mostly it was for, I believe, the thrill of killing someone. Let me throw that to

you, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, because that's more of a mind twist where you have the same MO and then you vary. There could be a number of things underlying that psychologically. Maybe the person is changing it up because they want to escape detection from law enforcement. It could also be, which is much darker and less satisfying, that the person wants to try different methods of killing. Because again, in that vein of psychological gratification and getting that gratification from murdering people, maybe shooting isn't satisfying to this person, which is really scary. But one thing you got to be careful about as a criminal is your vehicle. Take a listen to the Miami PD presser.

The investigation began. Officers quickly connected the two incidents, not only because of the short span of time between the two shootings, but because both incidents involved victims that were homeless. As the investigation continued, the members of our criminal investigations unit, led by Chief Aguilar and Major Cook from our criminal investigation division began scouring for not only physical evidence but electronic evidence and were able to discover a video of the shooting on Miami Avenue where it revealed that a black vehicle had driven up to a location where the victim was laying down on the ground and shot at him several times.

Subsequently, the investigation revealed the type of vehicle and the tag. There you go. David Avalle, crime reporter with the Miami Herald. Why do criminals think they're so smart? Why? I mean, the killer is driving in the same vehicle on two of the murders, a black vehicle. And at every red light, practically in Miami, you've got a light cam, a red light cam. What was he thinking?

It goes beyond that. So this particular area, I think I told you, it's called Wynwood. And they actually have a pretty sophisticated CCTV area because it's sort of a high-tourist, high-traffic area. So I think they were able to use cameras that are really good from that system to be able to get the tag. The one thing that's been a challenge, I know, is, you know, it's his car, it's his weapon, but the cameras aren't quite good enough to put him as the actual shooter. So as of right now, it's a circumstantial case. And but they they really believe that he is the person behind. Well, I mean, there's somebody gunning people down in the perp's car with potentially the perp's weapon.

But who would ever have suspected the Miami serial killer is a successful realtor? A young guy that, not me, but many people believe is very handsome, and I'm talking about Will Willie Maceo. Hold on, let it sink in. A Miami real estate agent now suspected of being the Miami serial killer. Bonichelle. So I don't get it. David Avalle joining me, crime reporter with the Miami Herald. Why would a successful realtor want to go around and gun down innocent homeless people nancy that's the million dollar question uh willie is not someone that had any real previous interactions with the law other than a couple traffic tickets he wasn't uh had never been arrested um he lived in a pretty suburban nondescript part of of Miami. If you look at his Instagram accounts

and his online profiles, and he's sort of almost, you know, just sort of a typical Miami young man, right? Dabbling in real estate and trying to get involved in cryptocurrency and, you know, just sort of all the buzzwords of 2021, 2022. Yeah, it's a complete mystery

and it's a complete mystery. And it's one that we at Miami Herald are still trying to understand. Okay. You just said buzzwords. Are you talking about cryptocurrency? Is that the buzzword? Cryptocurrency, real estate, all the very Miami stuff of our current times. You know, it's just really hard for me to take in what you're saying, David Avaya.

And I know everything you're saying is correct. Take a listen now to our friends at CBS Miami. This is Our Cut 5. On his Facebook page, it shows a man that was interested in real estate. He reportedly worked as a real estate agent for Century 21, also interested in fast cars and cryptocurrency. And to that, both the mayor and the chief says you can never judge a book by its cover police officers are trained to go after the actions not the person not the way they look but the way that they behave and the actions they take I've been in law enforcement for 28 years with the city

of Miami and I can tell you I have seen criminals that fit every type and every look it surprises me anytime someone commits a crime of this kind, I'm surprised. If it's someone who doesn't have a criminal history or someone who, you know, it would be harder to explain. That makes it all the more shocking. Police also say that they recovered a car and a firearm that they believe was used in the commission of these two crimes on Tuesday evening. Meanwhile, it turns out that Suarez Maceo is from southwest Miami-Dade,

and he attended Miami Sunset Senior High, again, just 25 years old. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a listen to Our Cut 8. This is Janine Stanwood, WPLG. This 25-year-old suspect got his real estate license, according to records, in 2018 and had no prior criminal history, at least not that we could find at last check he was still here at the miami police department being investigated homeless individuals for apparent no reason have been brutally targeted police announcing they have this man in custody 25 year old willie suarez maceo a licensed south florida real estate agent

who boasts expertise in the stock market, but who detectives are now calling a serial killer whose victims are all homeless. On the eve of Christmas, we have a very dangerous person off of the streets now. You know, I don't get it. David Avalle with me, a crime reporter with the Miami Herald. This is a really dapper guy. Some would say good looking, not to me, because I know he's a serial killer. But some would claim he is very, very handsome. He's always decked out in slick looking suits. And he's pictured online on social media sitting on top of

speedy sports cars, bragging about cryptocurrency and his knowledge of the stock market. How in the hay does that fit in with driving along and your black sedan shooting at innocent homeless people, some of them asleep, killing them? He shot one guy in the head, for Pete's sake. It really is a jarring, jarring contrast. And given that he had never been arrested before, he had a valid concealed weapons permit. I mean, he was legally allowed to have the gun. And also he suspected of a stabbing, which is a very intimate, brutal crime that is accused of, he's believed to have done that a few months prior. So the whole thing is very, very jarring. And we have yet to learn

exactly what was going through his head, but I'm sure that's going to play out as the process proceeds in court. David Avaya, somebody has got to be speculating about what his motive was what is the working theory i mean my my gut my gut would tell me you know there's something uh you know screw loose in the guy's head but you know that's always a fine line right okay david avaya i'm so happy you said that because now finally you said something i disagree with. A screw loose. Okay, let me torment David Avaya for just one moment. David Avaya, very renowned in his field, crime reporter with Miami Herald, a screw loose. Now, the legal definition of insanity is not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident. And the fact that he

would pull up in this black car, remain virtually hidden, as you pointed out earlier, shoot an innocent victim dead and then speed away suggests to me he knew what he was doing was wrong, David Avaya. I mean, it could be argued, David, that everybody on this panel, including me, has a screw loose, right? But that does not an insanity defense make. Would you agree? Correct.

Oh, darn, I was hoping you'd disagree with me. I guess I kind of showed up for that. Well, here's the thing, right? So, yes, right. To be legally insane, you have to know, they have to be able to prove that you didn't know right from wrong. But in this case, not only did he flee the scene, but also when he's eventually picked up by the city of Miami Police Department

and they want to talk to him about what happened, he immediately asked for a lawyer, right? So you'd think someone that didn't know right from mom wouldn't really have the capacity to do that. So that's I don't think that's going to be able to fly the defense. The best defense they have right now is there's no witnesses. You know, it's just really hard for me to take in what you're saying, David Avaya. And I know everything you're saying is correct. Take a listen now to our friends at CBS Miami. This is Our Cut 5. Mr. Maceo is never seen carrying out the shooting. But in court, the public defender arguing that just because Maceo owned the gun and the car used in the

shootings doesn't mean he's the one who did the crime. No one answered at Maceo's home in the Kendall Lakes area. No one was at his real estate office off Killian Parkway. If he's guilty of these crimes and they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, he has a very, very peculiar pattern of finding unprotected individuals in the streets that are not even awake and going up to them. And it appears to be an execution style for reasons that are unknown. So he was denied bond again. He faced a charge of attempted first degree murder. Those other fatal incidents are still under investigation. Police say charges could be pending. Of course, there is another stabbing that we believe is going to be connected to Will Maceo.

Also, are there other homeless people that have been killed in the past? Homicides that have yet remained unsolved. So David Avalle with the Miami Herald, you accurately pointed out as the defense echoed your thoughts that while cameras caught his vehicle, they didn't catch a shot of him. So at any point, David Avalle, was his car reported stolen? No. As far as we know, there's been no evidence that his car was ever reported stolen. I assume in the defense lawyer in that hearing pointed out that there could have been other people that he allowed access to, to have to his car, to his gun, right? The interesting thing, so no eyewitnesses so far, but in the October murder, they actually have stunningly clear video of the person they believe committed the homicide, and it like, it's totally him. It completely looks like him, but you know, in that case, again, they need more witnesses.

They need more to be able to prove that the person in that video is him. So there you know, in that case, again, they need more witnesses. They need more to be able to prove that the person in that video is him. So there's a lot of moving parts. I imagine if I was a good investigator, they would be pulling cell phone records to see if they could triangulate his position and put him near the scene. Put his cell phone in the vehicle at the time of the shootings. And what you pointed out was, first they say, oh, there's not a witness. And they say, sir, we've got a witness. And then you say, well, they couldn't see it was at night. You don't have video. Well, now we have video. That's when the defense attorney has to step back and punt and say something like, are you going to believe that

or you're lying eyes? So bottom line, what I'm really curious about, David Avaya, is if they will connect him to other deaths, other homicides of homeless people or others in the Miami area that have remained unsolved. Do you know if there is an ongoing investigation in that regard? There is absolutely. And the city of Miami police chief actually implored fellow law enforcement to come forward with any cases that could be connected remember it doesn't necessarily even have to be a homicide or an attempted i mean it could just be an attack in which someone survived or wasn't seriously injured um so i'm sure they're getting a lot of tips of course they've they've kept a lot of that stuff under wraps because of the sensitive nature of the investigation but yes they you know

these things don't happen in a vacuum and so so there was a couple of month period between the October homicide and the shootings that ended in his arrest. So they want to know what he was doing in between that time and before that. I'd be very curious to discover whether his murders extended beyond innocent homeless people whose names we have not mentioned. Manuel Perez, Jerome Antonio Price, one unidentified male who survived. Very often we see just his name and not the names of the homeless as if they don't have names or families somewhere. What were you saying, David? Yeah, I think that's a good point. of the homeless as if they don't have names or families somewhere. What were you saying, David?

Yeah, I think that's a good point. And, yeah, I mean, we, you know, these little people are lived on the fringes of society and are marginalized, and it would be wise to definitely memorialize them because you're right. A lot of times the killer, just the killer gets the attention. Which is all the more reason that they need our protection, the most vulnerable in our society. I'm going to ask you a question. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, quick question. Is there a connection between, I know he's killing homeless people, but he's a real estate agent that sells homes to people. Is there a connection there in any way,

a psychological connection there? It just seems ironic to me. Can anybody make a connection on that? You know, the common thread is whether they're a serial killer, teacher, or anything else, they've got an antisocial personality. And something else, you know, that, you know, the average age of a serial killer is 27 and a half years old. This guy's 25.

So if this guy's a serial killer, he's on the front end of his career. And by the police department catching this guy, that may have saved a ton of lives. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.