Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Suzanne Morphew Hubby, Scratches, Caught on Video Throwing Trash Bags in Multiple Dumpsters

Episode Date: August 30, 2021

More details emerging in the case again the husband of missing mom Suzanne Morphew. Chaffee County Sheriff’s Office Undersheriff Andy Rohrich testified that photos taken of Barry Morphew shortly after Suzanne’s disappearance showed numerous superficial injuries, including cuts and scrapes on his upper arms that may be fingernail scratches. Barry Morphew also had injuries on the outside of his hands, but it is unclear if investigators believe all of those injuries were recent. Rohrich also presented findings in court that suggested Suzanne Morphew did not flee her Maysville, Colorado, home. Her wallet–reportedly full of cash–was found in her 2015 Range Rover. Also in the wallet or the car were Suzanne’s credit cards, driver’s license, and a medical card showing she had a cancer treatment scheduled for the Monday after she was reported missing, the Daily Mail reports.Investigators found two of three books in the Morphew home that are believed to have been important to Suzanne: A Bible and Alcoholics Anonymous book. Detectives were also advised to look for a journal. While they didn’t find an intact journal, investigators reportedly found possible evidence of a journal burned in the fireplace.Read the full story on CrimeOnlineJoining Nancy Grace today:Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego.Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (October 2021) bw-institute.com.Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org.Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio.Mike King - Host: "ProfilingEvil" on YouTube, Former Police Officer (Ogden, Utah), Former Chief Investigator: Weber County Attorney’s Office, Former Chief of Staff: Utah Attorney General’s Office, Author: "Deceived, An Investigative Memoir of the Zion Society Cult", www.ProfilingEvil.com, Instagram/Twitter: @Profiling Evil. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young mom seemingly goes out for a bike ride on Mother's Day all alone. Where is her husband? Where are her children? That's another question. Not probative. That really doesn't prove anything. But what does prove something is that her husband, Barry Morphew, had cuts and scrapes and scabs on his arms. How did that happen? His alibi is falling apart. And now now does triangulation show that he literally chased her around their home, their mansion, before she went missing? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

We are bringing you the very latest out of a courtroom where a preliminary hearing has been going hot and heavy. We're seeing a little bit of the state's case, although the arrest warrant for Barry Morphew, the husband, has been kept under seal. Why? I hear it's over 100 pages long. Boy, would I like to get my mitts on that arrest affidavit. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Who murdered Suzanne Morphew? Yes, go ahead, drag her name through the mud because she had an affair.

That's not the killer. And I don't care if she had one affair or ten affairs or if she was a nun in the monastery. She was murdered. Don't tell me she's missing. She's dead. And I want to know who murdered her. Again, thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation Series XM 111. Take a listen to this.

Our friends at Denver 7. In court today, bombshell new evidence in the disappearance of Suzanne Morphew. We learned she was having an affair for two years prior to her disappearance. That investigators only found out about the affair through a spy pen that recorded audio between Suzanne and her lover. And that she traveled at least six times out of state to be with him. the family. The defense argued that the family had been in contact with Barry's car. The defense argued that there was distorted audio between Suzanne and her lover and that she traveled at least

six times out of state to be with him. We also learned Barry more few and Suzanne argued shortly before her disappearance about money in particular about Suzanne's inheritance, which the couple partially

spent on their large house in Chaffee County. On the other hand, the defense argued no blood or trace evidence was ever found not in the home not in Barry's truck and Suzanne's body has never been found either they also argue Barry did everything a concerned husband would do after the disappearance of his wife texted her called his daughters asked neighbors to check on Suzanne and never objected to police searches of the home or his truck the defense also revealed Suzanne was on antidepressants before her disappearance. That sounds like a heck of a defense opening

statement, but guess what? I think there's plenty of ammunition to fire right back at every single thing that Russell Haythorne, Denver 7, just reported. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together. Again, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon, and host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ San Diego, Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, research consultant, author, Operation SOS. It goes on and on and on. Cheryl McCollum, founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. I know for a fact she is a forensic expert. I've been on many a crime scene with Ms. Cheryl McCollum. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Death Investigator.

Now that is a creepy title, Joseph Scott. You're going to have to work on that for a minute. Death investigator. But let me say this about Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of would be willing to venture over 10,000 homicide scenes. But first, to Mike King, our special guest, host of Profiling Evil. Now that gets my attention right there. Profiling Evil. On YouTube, former police officer in Utah, former chief investigator. Wow. Utah Attorney General's office, author of Deceived, an investigative memoir of the Zion Society cult.

You know, you've been hanging around with the wrong people, King. What I'm interested in is this profiling evil, because you have been on the Suzanne Morphew disappearance from day one. And I don't know if you're like me. I know this is crazy, but sometimes, you know, my King, I have to get up at five o'clock to feed the cat, the dog, the guineas, my mother, the children, la la la. One of the first things I do is I go to Google and I put in Suzanne Morphew. I send texts and emails 5 a.m. Eastern to every source I've got trying to find out, what do you know?

What do you know? What do you know? You know everything that's been going on in that courtroom. Hit me. Well, I think that's been going on in that courtroom. Hit me. Well, I think it's been an amazing four days, and I really have enjoyed listening, talking to. Okay. You know what, Mike King? I really like you.

But cut right to it. When I say hit me, I don't want to hear about the tea party you've been having at the courthouse. Give me the evidence and give it to me now. You know what? It boils down to a circumstantial case that I think is pretty powerful. I think the prosecution showed it. Is it possible? Yeah, a lot of things are possible, but here it is. Scratches on the arm. Why does a guy walk in the one time he talks with police and goes to his home and he's wearing a long sleeve shirt. Coincidence or circumstantial? Did you hear that?

Okay. Go ahead and laugh all ye of little faith. But when you are out in Colorado in the summertime and it's getting hot and you're, you are buttoned up neck to wrist to toe. You're covered up. Okay, you know what? A defense attorney could have a field day with that, but a jury may sit up and perk up and listen to it like I just did. So he goes to talk to cops, and he's got on a long-sleeved shirt. Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, crazy. I mean, we go to the bike that was clearly staged, in my opinion. There's no artifact to suggest that there were scuffs on the road, that there was a collision down the hillside. The police even testify that the bike front wheel was turned in a manner that would be suggestive of it being rolled down a hill with nothing holding on to the handlebars. All of the previous alibis of mountain lions and the boogeyman just kind of fall apart. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I will be laughed out of court if I go in and go, well, the way the front tire was turned makes me think that they can shred that up like a razor. Give me something more. Give me something harder than that, for Pete's sake. Yeah. The bike wheel was turned. Yeah. So as a bike wheel turned without

creating some kind of artifact in the ground in the dirt and and and there's a body on that bike you mean a crash the bike wheel is turned and there's no evidence of a crash evidence okay now that makes a little bit of sense but i want to get i want to get down to wait you just kind of glossed over the cuts on the arm you You told me you wore a hand on long sleeves. Well, where did the cuts enter into this? Well, the testimony from the police, from the sheriff's office, is that there are scratches that are consistent with those you'd see by fingernails. Those, I don't know any other way to put it than.

I know how to put it. I know how to put it. Hold on, because I've argued it to juries before. They look like little bitty crescent moons, half moons. I wonder if Suzanne Morphew wore fake nails. I just wonder. Okay, guys, take a listen to our Cut 92, Matt J. Blow, Nine News, Denver. On day three of the preliminary hearing, the Chafee County undersheriff, Andy Rourke, testified that Barry Morphew had three scratch marks on his left arm and injuries on his hands when he spoke with Morphew a few days after Morphew's wife Suzanne disappeared last summer. Suzanne was last seen on Mother's Day and has

since been presumed dead. The Undersheriff said Morphew claimed he got the injuries from a tree while searching for Suzanne. Oh, I didn't realize he was out searching for her. But also interesting. Wait a minute, wait a minute. He only speaks to cops days after she goes missing. Is that right, Mike King? Well, that's the testimony. And, of course, we know that he came to the scene the night he returns from Denver to the scene where the bicycle is.

And then they take him into the home on the one visit he makes to the home, which was also troubling because he doesn't look around for his wife. He doesn't say, hey, this is out of place or that's out of place or where's her purse. he just goes in, retrieves the document according to court testimony, and then they walk out of the house. What document does he go in to retrieve? An article of clothing. What article of clothing? Well, I think it's her bike shorts, if I remember right, Nancy, and I think it was so that the dogs could search for that scent. Is that supposed to be the first time he's back in the home it is the first time yes crime stories with nancy grace of course we're going to have to bring in dr jory crawson on this the actual expert, the psychologist. But can we just talk about this for one minute?

Okay, Cheryl. Do you remember the old, let's see, they played bad boys, bad boys. It was cops, cops, cops. Did you ever notice in cops, there would be a guy just sitting in his recliner having a beer, watching TV. And all of a sudden, you'd seen the background cops running through. And the guy didn't even look up. Like if a cop came running through my house, I would get up and chase them. Why are you here?

But, you know, it was just normal. Okay, why does Barry Morphew, this is the first time he's gone in the home since his wife is reported missing not by him i might add and he just goes and gets a pair of her shorts and comes back out man i'd be all over that place trying to find what i could find help me again i think if we go back to what you just mentioned he's not the one that even alerted the police. He didn't call the police. He wasn't frantic looking for her. Cheryl, quit saying what I just said. But I think it's- Please, I just said that. Say something new. Okay, here's one. When he offers $100,000, he offers $100,000 for her safe return.

Not for any information, not for the person that did it,000 for her safe return. Not for any information. Not for the person that did it. But for her safe return. Because he knows he's never going to have to part with that $100,000. Okay, wait a minute. Cheryl, what I'm talking about. If somebody... Okay, you know what?

Mute her. Okay, I'm going to go to Dr. Jory Croson. Okay, Jory, listen. He goes into the house for the first time. His wife has been reported missing. I would be tearing the place up. Did she leave me a note? Did she this? Did she that? Is the bed made up or her clothes here or purse here? There are diamond earrings, anything. I'd be looking for any clue where my husband was. It's not like him to just not show up. I'd be on my iPhone trying to do Life

360, everything to find him. He just walks in, grabs a pair of pants, goes, here. What? He's not very well planned on this at all. That's one of the things I noticed from the beginning. He's kind of making it up as he goes. He may have had a plan, but not down to the fine details. Just like this, you know, not going in and being some kind of dramatic emotional response, looking for his wife like you described. And he goes and gets the clothing article for the dogs to get a scent off of, and that's it.

No more investigating of the house. Nancy, I can tell you why he did it. He did it. Oh, now she wants a second chance. He did it because he wanted out of the house. Nancy, I can tell you why he did it. He did it. Oh, now she wants a second chance. He did it because he wanted out of that house, he wanted the police out of that house because he knew he had darts in the dryer. He knew he had a.22 caliber bullet on the floor. He knew there were some things in that house he did not want them to see. I don't think he knew he left behind a.22 caliber

bullet. I don't think he realized he had left the dark gun in the dryer. I think all that goes back to what Dr. Jory Crawson just said. Yes, you're right, he did those things, but I don't think he knew about it because I think this was very well planned. You know, Wendy Patrick, Cheryl, you'll probably remember me telling you this. I remember my boss, the elected DA, called me down to his office one time. Well, one of many times, and he had his newspaper up like he always did, and I was standing there looking at the back of

the newspaper, and he said, Nancy. I said, yes, sir. He went, do you think you get too emotionally involved in your cases? And I said, yes. And he went, okay. And then I left. That was it. And what I was leading up to, Wendy, Patrick, is Dr. Jory has an analysis, which I think is correct. Cheryl McCollum has an analysis, which I think is correct. Cheryl McCollum has an analysis, which I think is correct. But in that moment, just then, when I was talking about my husband would never just go missing or not leave me a note or a text probably, and I come in and he's not here, just thinking about that scenario got me nervy, just thinking that that could happen. I would be completely torn up. Yeah. Well, you know, your emotion makes you good at your job and good at your show. You know, emotion is one of

those things that you just can't hide if it's authentic. But he had no emotion. It's not about me. It's about him. And that's the evidence that is going to be emphasized throughout because actions speak louder than words but so do emotions and for him to have had no emotional reaction that lack of demeanor that that lack of the kind of natural emotion anybody would have even under the circumstances is a huge piece of evidence now sure it's not what he said and maybe not even necessarily what he did. But the fact that he was able to so calmly go and retrieve whatever they asked him to retrieve without that characteristic panic and just dread all of the kinds of very strong emotions one would have in that circumstance if they weren't the killer. That in and of itself is going to be so powerful in a case like this. Compare his behavior and his emotion levels to other incidences with his wife.

I mean, you know, there were domestic violence. There was the aggression. He's highly emotional, but for him all of a sudden now to shut down just like this, he's trying to control himself and as much of the environment as he possibly can. Very much out of character. Although in court, he's apparently gushing at his two adult daughters who are siding with him for their own reasons. Guys, we've got new evidence that we're learning out of that preliminary hearing. And with us is host of Profiling Evil on YouTube.

It's awesome. Mike King, who knows everything that's going on in the courtroom, including this. Take a listen to our friend Lauren Scharf, Fox 21, Our Cut 103. It was the first time we ever heard that Barry Morphew had any type of scratches or injuries the weekend of Suzanne's disappearance. And investigators believe it was fingernail scratches on his upper left arm. But Barry told investigators it was from tree branches when he was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people.

The house was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people.

The house was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people.

The house was full of people. The house was full of people. The house was full of people. out. Investigators also found a 22 caliber unspent shell casing on Suzanne's side of the bed, and deputies were told to look for three books Suzanne kept together, a Bible, an Al-Anon book, and a journal. Investigators never found the journal and mentioned finding a book binding that had been burned in the couple's fireplace. Oh dear lord in heaven mike king you didn't say anything about the book burned in the fireplace yeah wake up man isn't that isn't that something i mean who you know trade out his tequila for a shot of espresso what a book burn who goes and burns a book in their fireplace unless it's on a movie set or they're trying to destroy evidence yeah really interesting and and who would destroy a journal that they put so much heart and emotion

into um that that really is troubling the the other two books i through the bible and alan on book on healing kind of understanding people who are going through traumatic experiences some people have theorized that it had to do with addictions of Suzanne. That's not what the book's about. It's about understanding others who have gone through challenges and addiction. Yeah, the Al-Anon book does not mean she had an addiction. I remember when we were doing Dancing with the Stars, there was a contestant that would come and sit on my trailer hitch all the time. He always had an Al-Anon book with him and he lived by it. He would go through it every, every, almost every time I

saw him, he had the Al-Anon book when he wasn't dancing to give him strength. And it really worked. I wonder why she needed strength. I can only guess. But what I can do is analyze those cuts on his arm. Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, author. I'm not even going to ask you how many thousands of homicide scenes you've been on, how many bodies you've looked at. Let's talk about the cuts on his arm. I'm so happy he said he got the cuts from a tree. Yeah, me too.

Because that is nothing like fingernail marks. No, it's not. I can completely obliterate this in just a couple of takes. Just give me a second. If everybody that's listening to this will actually turn your fingers toward your face and look at your fingernails, you had mentioned how there are crescent-shaped marks that are left behind by nails. to this will actually turn your fingers toward your face and look at your fingernails. You had mentioned how there are crescent-shaped marks that are left behind by nails. You're absolutely

right. That happens when somebody clutches somebody, like to defend themselves. But what they're talking about is scratch marks. Now, if you'll think about a plowed field, when you see in the spring when fields have been plowed, that's what scratch marks actually look like. They're in rows. They're uniformed. You have them. When you have tree branch scratches, these are all irregular. Just think about going out in your yard and trimming a hedge or something like that. The branches are randomized, not fingernails, okay? And when she would have scratched him, Nancy, imagine this. Her nails would have collected all of the skin cells, and it would have, if you've ever seen old paint that kind of rolls up when people are scraping

things, that top layer, the epidermis, literally comes off, and it embeds beneath the nails. He had to get rid of her body, destroy evidence. And also, there was one other thing that kind of stood out to me about this, is the fact that they said he had other injuries to his hands. What does that mean? Because they didn't say scratches. They said other injuries. I'm wondering if he had contusions otherwise known as bruises where maybe he had been pounding her. It left marks on her. Maybe they were abraded in some way. You know, there's actually a practice in forensics called anti-mortem forensic pathology where I've been involved in these cases, Nancy, where we go and actually examine living suspects, living individuals, go to the emergency room, and you take pictures. I hope, I hope with everything that is within me that the police thoroughly

documented these marks on his body with photography. I mean, all over him, every inch of his body, and that they can get these not to some general practitioner, but to an actual forensic pathologist, because what they're going to be looking for is the age of the injuries, because that's going to come up. They want to know, are they fresh? Is this consistent with the amount of time she's been missing? And also the degree, the nature of them. What could have generated this? Because this is going to be, if we don't find her body, this is going to be the closest to anything that we're going to come up with.

We're not going to find her body. Bam. I don't think we're going to ever find her body. Because if we haven't found it by now, I don't think we're going to find it. You know, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. They've looked everywhere they can think of. And so far, nothing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about scratches, and I stand corrected.

Although I think what you and I are saying are not mutually exclusive. I think you can have the crescent grab marks, but you're right. When you scratch down, that's a perfect comparison to freshly dug rows out in a field. And that is very different from passing tree branches and them scraping your arms. Why would they scrape his hands? I don't know, but completely different markings. So this is the first we're hearing about these cuts on Barry Morphew's hands and as Joe Scott Morgan accurately pointed out and other injuries. Take a listen to our friends at Nine News Denver. Earlier in the day, John Grusing, a former FBI agent, testified that the day after Suzanne disappeared, when Barry was heading to Broomfield for a business trip, he went in the wrong direction on Route 50,

heading not to Broomfield, but towards the area where Suzanne's bike helmet was later found. Grusing testified that Morphew explained he was following a large elk down Route 50 to see when its antlers would fall off, though Under Sheriff Rorick testified that elk don't have antlers that time of year. Gruesing also testified that a tranquilizer gun and darts were found in Morphew's garage. When he asked Morphew about it, Gruesing said Morphew told him he shot deer from a breezeway of his house in order to cut off their antlers. Under Sheriff Rorick testified that no cut off deer antlers were ever found in Morphew's house. Man, I hope he just keeps talking. Back to Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube. Mike King, he just like blah, blah, blah.

And I just love it because here he goes the wrong direction. His GPS shows us that in his vehicle. Instead of going where he says he's going, he goes the other way claiming he was following a lone elk to determine when its antlers were going to fall off. I don't know about you, but it would take a lot if I'm on my way to work to get me to detour somewhere else if I have to be at work. But I'm curious. When they find the tranquilizer gun and darts, some of it in the dryer when they get there,

he explains it by saying he shot a deer from the breezeway of his home to cut off their antler, but then we can't find the antler. So what happened to them? Okay, Mike, Mike King joining us. What do you know? Well, here's the first thing that bothers me is the time of day. Yes, sunrise is about at 5.50, so at 5 a.m. or a little before that, it's still pretty darn dark. So to make that turn is interesting. But the thing that's most interesting to me is that down the road to the left, to the west, where he turns, is where Suzanne's helmet is found. So that's a big, big coincidence if he's chasing a whale. Wait, the GPS can place him right there where her helmet was found? Well, the helmet was found less than a mile to the west of where he turns.

So he would be going very close to that very area where the helmet's discovered. And the helmet's discovered. I'm curious, do we know how long he was there? Time for him to get out of the car and walk to place the helmet and come back? You know what? I don't think he would have to place the helmet, Nancy. It was about 10 yards off the road, so just driving before he makes his U-turn to head back, he could toss that out the window, and that's where that would end up lying.

It was a turquoise helmet. So he goes right by where the helmet was. Yeah, and then he turns around and heads back. So the question about whether they're elk or... I guess the elk got away. Oh elk or i guess the elk got away oh it sounds like the elk got away but the interesting thing is it could still be uh holding on to antlers so that that's a possibility in early april but not a probability but the bottom line is we never saw the antlers that's a lie well well or do we know whether he he found the elk again bottom line is he turns west

when he was supposed to turn east well wait no there's an elk and a deer the deer he shot from the breezeway remember he claimed that's why he used his dart gun uh but where are they the antlers he claims he got and also then there was the elk he was chasing are there two different animals two different animals and two different processes if he if he's shooting a deer and cutting the antler off there's no question there should be evidence of an antler that's been cut off which by the way is against the law to shoot the deer and cut its antlers off second is if he's looking for sheds where the antler falls off on its own, just chasing that elk is not going to get him that lucky bullet that it's going to drop off its head while it's running

away. So that's kind of a wacky thought. You know, you mentioned something interesting. I remember the first time I, and we went back out there recently, Jack, with the children in the RV, good times, to Jackson Hole, and they have a huge arch made from antlers. And the first time I saw them, I'm like, isn't this illegal? I'm not going to get a picture near that. And they went, no, they shed them at a certain time of year. That's the first time I knew that way back when. So you're right.

Dark gunning them and cutting off their antlers is illegal. Plus, we can't find the antlers. So to you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute at coldcasecrimes.org. Jump in. We've got a lot of evidence. Nancy, again, why would the dart be in the dryer? Nothing he has done has made sense. He's at a hotel room that smells like Clorox. He, you know, he's the first one to

entertain that a cougar got her. And that makes no sense to anybody that lives in that area. Again, if that had happened. It's the whole wildlife kingdom. You've got the deer, you got the elk. Now you got a cougar. The whole wildlife kingdom is conspiring against Barry Morphew. He's deleted text messages. He's done all these things. None of it makes any sense. But one thing I want to point out, he knew that his wife was having an affair. When she shows up missing, he does not tell police about the other guy. He doesn't tell them, hey, she's been having an affair with a guy and she's gone out of town several times.

Check with him. Maybe he did something to her. He doesn't mention that guy at all. Oh, that's a really good thought. Why didn't he? Because he knew that guy didn't get her. Guys, we are talking about the evidence as it is unfolding in a preliminary hearing courtroom, which I advise the state against because you show the other side all your evidence.

I've always said they should have just convened a grand jury and indicted him if they had the evidence. Why show your cards? But they did it. And in a way, I'm glad they did because I'm finding out a lot about it. You just heard Cheryl McCollum refer back to that hotel room. Now, isn't it true, back to you Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube, that the morning that his wife goes missing, it's Mother's Day, he gets up according to him early early, still

dark outside, and leaves for a job that's later been disproved. There wasn't really a job. He's building a retainer wall that he had built before and it, I guess, had cracks in it or needed to be redone. We now find out he was hastily putting together a crew that morning in the car, in his vehicle, on the way to the out-of-town But he goes to a hotel. He goes to a hotel. Take a listen to our cut 96, Denver 7. Also in court, attorneys spoke about the inside of Morphew's hotel room the day Suzanne went missing. CBI didn't swab the hotel room for Suzanne's DNA. More few employees who were in Brufield on the day Suzanne was reported missing saw that there was wet towels in the bathroom and an intense chlorine odor. The state suggested

because of COVID, the pool wouldn't be open. The defense pointed out the manager of the hotel sent an email stating the room Morphew had stayed in is above the pool and still smelt like chlorine four months later wow it still stunk of chlorine four months later um joe scott morgan it didn't come from the pool now we know they didn't swab the room for dna i doubt pretty seriously he had uh suzanne morphew's body in that hotel room So I don't know what we've lost from that. Still should have been swabbed. But Joe Scott, why intense chlorine? What would that do? Well, most people think, you know, it's bleach.

Most people think that it's going to be a successful cleaning agent. And my suspicion is, my suspicion is, is that he's attempting to clean up blood. I don't know. You know, I hear, I hear hoofbeats. I think horses most of the time. And so when I hear this, that's what I'm thinking. And, you know, the police still, after all that time, I don't know if they've held onto that room, if they've closed it down, it's still possible in many of these cases to go back and use some kind of luminescing agent in there, like Blue Star oruminol. And when we're developing, people say, you need to take on your vitamins,

take on iron. One of the things that happens is that the Luminol, it actually interacts with the iron in our hemoglobin. So that gives you an indication. And bleach is not always the answer. You'll leave some of it behind. Now, what it can do, it can affect the DNA that's there. But you can get an indication that there was a blood swatch there. So maybe there's a potential they could go back and check that out again. I don't know. I hope that they can.

Yeah, it takes more than bleach to get rid of DNA. You're going to need something like blue swan. I mean, excuse me, black swan. Guys, not only that, take a listen to what else we learn in the preliminary hearing. Take a listen to Jason Greenauer, Denver 7. During this preliminary hearing, a retired FBI agent testified that in March of this year, Barry Morphew asked him, can you give me immunity if I sit and just open my life to you? Barry Morphew is charged with the murder of his wife, Suzanne,

who went missing on Mother's Day 2020. This is the preliminary hearing to determine if there's enough evidence to move this case to a trial. Now, that FBI agent, Johnny Grusing, said he believed that Barry was trying to make a deal with any information that he had. We also learned today that Barry Morphew immediately told a co-worker when his wife went missing that it's got to be a mountain lion or cougar that had killed her. The defense spent time poking holes in prosecution arguments surrounding the cap of a tranquilizer dart that was found in the Morphew home and the hotel room that Barry had stayed in during a work trip that had allegedly smelled of chlorine.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Out to you. Question on this. Wendy Patrick, why would someone just walk up and go, if I tell you everything, will you give me immunity? I wouldn't. Why?

If your wife is missing and you have nothing to do with it, why would you want immunity? I mean, I always use Mark Klass, whose daughter Polly went missing, was kidnapped from her own home during a sleepover and raped and murdered. When cops came to his place, he went, sure, take my DNA, take my fingerprints, check my place, check my car, do whatever you have to do to start finding who took Polly. That's the gold standard right there. He didn't walk up and go, well, I'll tell you whatever I know if you give me immunity. Oh, H-E-L-L, no, he did not. That just strikes me wrong right there.

Yeah, and that's a huge piece of evidence, Nancy. And, you know, we pair that with the forensics, or maybe I should say the lack of forensics. First, I think Joe Scott's next book should be Blood Beneath My Nails instead of Believe My Feet. But let's pair that, Nancy, with what you just said. So asking for immunity if you talk. We have to pair that with the fact that we probably need what we call a negative evidence expert.

And you probably use that. In a case like this, it wouldn't be a wildlife expert. It would be a why you wouldn't expect to find certain types of forensic evidence because of the cover-up being part of the crime. So when you pair that with a request to have immunity if you speak, that just is the exact same type of thing that the rest of the evidence points to, which is the cover-up aspect of it. So absolutely, that's a huge piece of evidence, even though ironically, it's a non-statement being used as a powerful piece of evidence here. I mean, it speaks to me, Cheryl McCollum, that while his wife is missing, dead,

he approaches law enforcement or approaches someone and says, hey, if I tell you everything, will you give me immunity? I would be lying on the police steps, begging them to do anything. I'll take a polygraph here's my dna uh just do help me find david my husband and that's not what he was doing well nancy you and i often talk about elizabeth smart's father and all his brothers that That's what they did immediately. And this guy, he goes around to different locations throwing things away, like camouflaged clothing. Oh, yes. Thank you for mentioning that.

Mike King, let's talk about him throwing things away. Tell me about it. Well, the evidence in court was that he goes to five different dumpsters. Now, in some of the discussion, he says he identifies three of them, but he leaves out, I think, the bus stop and the men's warehouse dumpster that he goes to. But the thing I find interesting is he not only goes to the dumpster with large bags that apparently he's cleaning out his truck with, but he forces those down into the bottom of the can with his hands. And I don't know about you, but when I go to the dumpster and throw stuff in the dumps, the last thing I want to do is get my hands down in there and push a little deeper.

I was just talking about that the other day. Who, especially in times of COVID, but ever will go up to a dumpster, like behind a restaurant or behind the grocery store, and push the trash down with your hands. Who? Who? Barry Morphew did it. Let me ask you this. To Cheryl McCollum, what do we know about the timing of all his dumpster trips? You know, it's amazing how many husbands turn into neatniks overnight when their wives go missing. You know, whatever.

Scott Peterson did it. He's throwing things away. Yeah. It reminds me of missing Connecticut connecticut mom of five jennifer dulos her husband photos dulos and his lover his mistress um they go all over town and they're caught on camera throwing bloody clothes bloody rags away when is his When is his cleaning craze? How is it timed with her disappearance, Cheryl? I believe that it's happening while he's at the motel before he comes back home. Is it, Mike King?

When is he cleaning up? Yeah, so the interesting thing is he goes to Broomfield to work on this wall, but he really only spends about 15 minutes there from what came out in court. But he spends about five hours in the hotel going in and out to the dumpster. He acknowledges that he knows there's surveillance cameras, so why on earth would I be getting rid of evidence? But then he goes to some alternate locations. So I think the big question becomes, why five hours in the hotel and 15 minutes on the job site so that day when she is out riding her bike he is going to how many dumpsters to get rid of evidence well testimony is five okay

all right um you and i may disagree on, and that is the possibility that triangulation shows that Barry Morphew chased his wife, Suzanne Morphew, through the home, shot her with a dart gun, and then got rid of her body. I also want to talk to you, Mike King, about evidence that the bedroom door where she would have gone had been rammed open. There was evidence of battering on that door that did not exist when they bought the home. But first, let's talk about triangulation. Why are you so convinced, Mike King, that contrary to what law enforcement says, triangulation does not show he chased her around the home? Yeah, I think it's the difference between emotion and science. And we've been studying what cell phones do for a long time in

the 911 industry and in law enforcement. Bottom line is, if you look at a phone and you set it in a single location, it's going to move around on the map showing that it almost will look like they're going through walls and going at 45 miles an hour, like the defense has claimed. Doesn't mean that they weren't still in that location. Doesn't mean that it would make good sense that he could be chasing someone or other things could happen. But the science is

hard to refute. And that is that there's drift, especially if the device, the phone, is using triangulation off of three different cell towers to determine where it is. We know that this area of the state has poor cellular reception. They talk about it over and again in this case. So that's going to add to the problem. It improves if the home has Wi-Fi and the device is also using Wi-Fi. Then it gets a lot tighter and it gets a lot more accurate. But the science is pretty hard to refute. It's going to move if it's based on triangulation. What if the home did have Wi-Fi?

Would that change your opinion? It would get tighter. It could get down to maybe 10 meters or 20, 30 feet. In some cases, it can get really pretty darn accurate. When I look at mine on my home, it shows my office in the northeast corner of my home all the time. But if I leave the phone sitting there and I turn off Wi-Fi, it starts bouncing like crazy and goes up to 400 or 500 yards away. So you're saying we cannot depend on triangulation, in your opinion, to show she was being chased in the home? No, it's just one more piece of the puzzle,

though. And so you've got to look at the fact that there's impact on the door. Is that accurate? The dart gun, is the dart gun actually working? And we've never heard any testimony that someone went out and test fired that darn thing. So that doesn't change the fact that the dart itself could be manually. Why would it be in his dryer? Well, lots of interesting questions around that. Yeah. And hard to refute those. Again, that's the difference between coincidence and circumstantial to me is that doesn't make sense.

But I think you can still paint a really strong picture of what's going on in the home from a circumstantial case. But that cellular movement alone should not be evidence alone. Way in, Joe Scott Morgan. What do you think of the evidence as we are presenting it today? Well, you know, I think that a lot of it is evidence of exclusion to a great degree. I don't know how tightly, of course, Mike would be able to speak to the cellular information a bit better than I. But one thing I'd like to kind of address and take a step back on is this idea of this fabricated story he's put forth relative to the big cat attack. You know, her riding down the road in her bicycle, and then all of a sudden a big cat attacks her. I have personally not worked these

kinds of cases, but I do have friends out west. One forensic odontologist, a bite mark expert in particular, that has worked several. And cats don't attack like this. They generally weigh up on ledges and they wait for their prey to pass. And one of the things that happens, Nancy, and I've seen the crime scene images from these, and they are just absolutely horrible. They attack and they grab the victim by the back of the neck and they kind of sling them around until they break the neck. And then they drag them back to a layer where they'll actually keep them and eat on the body. I'm sorry to have to say that, but that's what it does. It leaves behind a specific trail of not just blood, but you have drag marks

that are associated with this. Her scent would have been all over that place. So I think that this story that he's put forth relative to this can completely be discounted. And there are people out West that track these cats and it would be nuts. You could easily pick up the phone and call one of these people and ask them for their expert opinion about this, and they're going to come up with zilch because you know why? It didn't happen. Yeah, and I want to pile on if I can, Nancy. Jump in.

I live in a mountain lion territory, and this is exactly right. It would look like they walked into a propeller if a mountain lion took that person down. And there would be so many artifacts on the ground, including a cat is not going to pick up a 120-pound individual and drag them and not leave drag marks. And a mountain lion is only going to go about 100 yards maximum, usually downhill, to hide and bury that cache so that they can go back. So all of that is just hogwash. We brought on the Mountain Lion Foundation folks to just kind of reaffirm it.

And, boy, I'm 100% behind you on that comment. Cheryl McCollum, wrap it up. Nancy, priorities. When somebody goes missing or a loved one dies, people prioritize what is the most important thing in their life. And they start saying, you know, I'm going to spend more time with the kids. I'm going to spend less time at work. This guy immediately gets a judge to give him guardianship over her stuff

so he can sell some property in Indiana. That became a priority. The other thing that was a priority, he voted under her name. You know, it's interesting, Cheryl, and I know I project a lot, but I remember when my fiancé was murdered. I couldn't eat. I lost down to 89 pounds. I dropped out of school.

I couldn't stand to hear music. I couldn't stand to hear the TV or radio because nothing mattered anymore. And I project that on other people, which may or may not be fair. But I know one thing. The last thing on my mind was what's going to happen to his belongings and any legalities. And not knowing where she was, the thought that there was a chance she could be found. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.