Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Suzanne Morphew Hubby set to walk FREE?

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

Barry Morphew will find out this week whether there is enough evidence to proceed to trial in the murder of his wife Suzanne. During a preliminary hearing, Chaffee County Sheriff’s Office Undersheriff Andy Rohrich testified that photos taken of Barry Morphew shortly after Suzanne’s disappearance showed numerous superficial injuries, including cuts and scrapes on his upper arms that may be fingernail scratches. Barry Morphew also had injuries on the outside of his hands, but it is unclear if investigators believe all of those injuries were recent. Information also came out that Suzanne Morphew was having an affair. Investigators found two of three books in the Morphew home that are believed to have been important to Suzanne: A Bible and Alcoholics Anonymous book. Detectives were also advised to look for a journal. While they didn’t find an intact journal, investigators reportedly found possible evidence of a journal burned in the fireplace.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Jorey Krawczyn [KRAW-ZIN] - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (October 2021) bw-institute.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Mike King - Host: "ProfilingEvil" on YouTube, Former Police Officer (Ogden, Utah), Former Chief Investigator: Weber County Attorney’s Office, Former Chief of Staff: Utah Attorney General’s Office, Author: "Deceived, An Investigative Memoir of the Zion Society Cult", www.ProfilingEvil.com, Instagram/Twitter: @Profiling Evil  Lauren Scharf - Reporter, FOX 21 News, @LaurenScharfTV, laurenscharf.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A beautiful young mom seemingly, emphasis on seemingly, takes a bike ride and she's never seen again. Then there's evidence of a.22 caliber bullet beside her bed. A journal burned in the fireplace. A lot of this is not adding up. What I want to know, is there any chance, a snowball's chance in H-E-double-L, that Barry Morphew is going to walk out of jail on bond? Cuts on his hands and crocodile tears. I didn't make that up. Cuts on his hands and crocodile tears.

Let's just let that soak in for a minute. Take a listen to this. We're hearing details about the days, hours, and minutes leading up to May 9th, 2020, which is the last day that the FBI says that they knew that Suzanne Morphew was still alive. It's all focusing on the Morphew home just outside of Salida. Now, the FBI investigator today testified that Suzanne Morphew was at home sunbathing and sending pictures of herself to her boyfriend while her husband, Barry, was out of the home that afternoon. When Barry came home, Suzanne stopped responding to his messages. An investigator

testified that he wrote in an affidavit that he believed Barry was chasing Suzanne around the home when he returned. That's based on cell phone GPS data. Defense attorneys have said that that data may not be accurate. I'm sure they did say it wasn't accurate. Guys, you were just hearing our friend Mark Salinger at 9 News Denver. Expect a big ruling in just hours in the Barry Morphew murder case. I prefer to call it the Suzanne Morphew murder case. Joining me in all-star panel, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags at WendyPatrickPhD.com, and host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ San Diego,

Dr. Jory Crosan, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, research consultant, and author of Operation SOS. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics professor, Jacksonville State University, author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series, The Piketon Massacre on iHeart Radio. Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube, former cop, former chief investigator. Good gravy. I can't even read all of your your resume. Author of Deceived, an investigative memoir of the Zion Society cult.

Oh, that sounds good. You can find him at profilingevil.com. But first, to investigative reporter, our friend Lauren Scharf at Fox 21. You can find her at Lauren Scharf dot com but first to investigate a reporter our friend lauren sharp at fox 21 you can find her at lauren sharp dot com lauren as much as i'd love to talk about the tranquilizer cap found in the dryer and don't jump up and tell me the defense is arguing that means nothing i guarantee you there's not a tranquilizer cap off a tranquilizer gun in my dryer. And I bet there's not one in your dryer. And I bet there's not going to be one in the dryers of the jurors whenever they're picked. What I want to talk about is the possibility that this guy might walk out on bond. And when are we going to get to see all those sealed documents?

We still haven't seen a multi-page arrest warrant. Yeah, the judge is supposed to make that ruling on Friday, September 17th, around 1.30, and hopefully make a decision whether or not he will get bond. And also if the unsealed affidavit will or if the sealed affidavit will become unsealed. You know, I'm very curious about why the judge is holding out a ruling. Let's take a listen to our cut 116. Yes, Jackie, we're up to cut 116. Our friends at Fox 21, listen to this. Barry Morphew laid his head on the desk while his mother in the courtroom cried when he found out he wasn't going to be released from jail today. Both sides were wishing a decision would be made on Tuesday. I wish a decision would be made already

as well. But really putting your head down in a dramatic play in the courtroom. Why not just lay in the floor and cry? I mean, what's it all about? Why the dramatics in the courtroom? His mother starts crying. Does he actually think he's going to walk out on bond? That's my point of playing that sound Lauren Sharf. Is this guy going to walk free? I think a lot of his family members thought that he was going to get out of jail on the last day of the preliminary hearing. But obviously, that wasn't the case. And he still remains in jail without bond. The hanging the head, putting the head all the way down on the table in frustration or anger. I'm not sure what. It suggests to me, just as Lauren Schroff is saying,

that he and all of his cadre of supporters do believe he's going to walk free in the face of what I consider to be a mountain of evidence. Straight out to Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube, former cop, blah, blah, blah, blah, a lot of background. Mike King, let's use all of that expertise you've got, and it's quite a bit. Is this guy going to walk? Go ahead. I'm not a gambling woman, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. You know, I don't know if he's going to walk.

Oh, dear Lord in heaven. I don't believe he is. I know nobody knows. We don't know. We're not the oracle standing on a mountain in Athens, Greece. But what do you think? I think he's going to stay in jail. I think he's going to stay in jail, too.

And you know why? Because this is murder one. If it's true, it's murder one. And let me point out to everybody, and Wendy Patrick, jump in if I'm wrong, because, you know, the legal standards are different, various jurisdictions. But the legal standard here in Colorado in a preliminary hearing, it, and guys, a preliminary hearing is just basically pro forma. What it is, is a grand jury can indict, and I've been railing about why a preliminary hearing was held in this case, because what you're trying to do is get this case to a jury.

And in a preliminary hearing, a judge hears evidence and decides if there's enough for an indictment. Or a grand jury can hear it in secret and decide if there's enough for an indictment. When you have a prelim, the state has to put their evidence up, put up witnesses for the defense to get a dry run, a cross-examination. You got to show your cards, put your cards on the table for a prelim. Now I'm understanding that we didn't have a grand jury for one reason, COVID. So they went with a prelim. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but that's the word. So Wendy Patrick, the legal standard in a prelim for a judge to bind over the evidence is very simple. It's an old case, Jackson versus Virginia, which says the evidence will be viewed by the judge in the light most favorable to the state.

This is not a jury trial where it's beyond a reasonable doubt or beyond all shadow of a doubt. It's just favorable to the prosecution. If the judge thinks there's enough, it's going to get bound over, and I think it will be bound over. That's right. But it depends on the kind of case, regardless of the standard, how much a prosecutor decides to show their hand. It's often a sneak peek of the highlights, but it's more than that because sometimes you have, and this is again, what distinguishes it from the grand jury. Sometimes you have prosecutors in different jurisdictions that want to, uh, maybe they believe that less is more, they want to hold more back. But then you also have cases where they want to test out certain witnesses,

see how they do on the stand. Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, please. You can do that in a mock trial. You can test out your witnesses in private, in the privacy of their own living room. Why put them up on the stand under oath and let them get torn apart on cross-exam? What? I would argue there's a valid reason for doing that. And I've chosen to do that in many cases.

I've never done it. There's a big difference. I've never done it. Not once. Well, okay. Some of the victims I've had, I've found it very valuable to give them that opportunity to not just see the courtroom where they're going to sit, where the judge sits, but to actually go through testimony.

It depends on what kind of case you're handling. Well, we're about to have the war between the guys, Wendy Patrick, because what I don't want is my crime victim, let's just say a rape victim, to get up on the stand and take one beating on cross-exam in a preliminary hearing, then go through it another time in front of a jury. But hey, you say potato, I say potato. Well, well, that's why it depends on what kind of case you're handling. And I've also had cases where we lose a victim between prelim and trial. And if they testified at the prelim, what I'm able to do is have a reader, somebody to actually go in front of a jury when it gets to trial. And even

though I've lost my victim, be able to have that testimony. And that's why I say try the case as quickly as you can so nobody dies. Guys, right now, it all hangs in the balance wheel. Barry Morphew, walk free on bail? There are a lot of circumstances to take into account when the judge makes that decision. Circumstances like the strength of the murder case against him. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 21, our cut number 78. On May 9th, Agent Grusing said Suzanne sent a picture of her son bathing to her lover, Jeff Libler, around 2 p.m. the 47 and wasn't turned back on until after 10 o'clock that night. On Mother's Day, Suzanne's phone pinged for the last time at 4.23 in the morning when more few had told investigators that Suzanne was asleep when he left for Broomfield at 5.

I want to talk about a bullet or a bullet casing found near her bed. Lauren Scharf, reporter joining us from Fox 21 News. What can you tell me about a.22 caliber bullet or what's found by her bed? Yeah, Under Sheriff Andy Rourke testified that a.22 caliber round was found on the floor of Suzanne's bedroom next to her side of the bed. They didn't kind of give more information as to, you know, how they found it. It was just under the bed and it was on her side of the bed. Joe Scott Morgan, sing for your supper, friend.

Go ahead, because I can guarantee you there is not a.22 caliber bullet, a shell casing, a nothing beside my side of the bed or my husband's side of the bed. I'm not going to kill him. I may drive him crazy, but I'm not going to kill him. I may drive him crazy, but I'm not going to kill him. So why is there a 22 caliber round on her side of the bed? And don't start with me, defense attorneys, Wendy Patrick, playing devil's advocate, that maybe it wasn't her side of the bed. Please, it's so obvious. On my side of the bed, I've got a picture of my dad, a picture of the twins. I've got a bottle of water. I've got whatever book I was trying to read. On David's side of the bed, there's one thing, a charger for his iPhone. Bam. Nothing sentimental, nothing at all. And a pair of dirty socks? Probably. So it's very easy to tell which side of the bed is whose, but it doesn't matter. Why is there a 22 caliber round in their bedroom? I'm curious, is there carpet or hardwood? And you know why I'm curious. Go ahead, Joe Scott, analyze.

Yeah. One of the things I'm thinking about, Nancy, is that dependent upon the weapon, the 22 caliber weapon that this thing would have been used in, was he attempting to potentially rack a live round into the chamber? That is, pull the hand on the- When you say rack, I think of a shotgun. You're saying a.22 caliber round and a shotgun? No, but you can, I mean, we use the term rack. You pull the slide back on it, you can rack it in.

And he didn't realize there was a live round already in the chamber. So he's going to rack another round in there. Maybe he was fumbling around trying to load a 22 caliber revolver. This is what I'm interested in. It is significant that this round, this live round, by the way, not a spent round, live round was found on the floor adjacent to her side of bed. I want to know what type of.22 caliber weapons this man owned and were any recovered in the house. That's going to be key here, Nancy. I think coupling that along with this bizarre tranquilizer cap that he's got, it seems like, you know, the.22 caliber round is used many times for people that engage in what's called varmint hunting. You're trying to shoot

maybe coyotes or foxes or squirrels or something like that that's getting into your area. I'm wondering if he wasn't using tranquilizers for the same thing and maybe a more sinister. In the home, why would there be a cap to a tranquilizer i don't know maybe in his pocket and had fallen out while they were drying clothes and i'm just wondering if perhaps you know you should go to law school and be a defense lawyer because you're really cutting up some you're not going to put a tranquilizer cap into the dryer in order to eradicate physical evidence you put it into the washer in order to eradicate physical evidence. You'd put it into the washer in order to wash things away. So how in the world did it wind up there? And also, how did this live round

wind up there in such close proximity to her side of the bed, Nancy? Okay, you know what I thought you were going to say? Let me just get crazy. I know I'm the JD and you're the forensic expert, but I thought you were going to say something like when I gave you the hint, carpet versus hardwood, that when you shoot a gun, well, that would really go to a cartridge. It would fly out of the gun and land somewhere, because I remember a murder case. I had, of course, a wealthy, fancy side of Atlanta, and it was deemed a suicide. And the medical examiner investigator explained to me why it was so significant where the cartridge was found, you know, that flies out of the gun, ejects out of the gun. And that was a hardwood floor because if it hits on carpet, it will bounce one way. If it hits on hardwood, it will bounce another way.

But just the fact that there is a.22 caliber round on the floor on her side of the bed actually, Joe Scott, what you said makes a lot of sense. What we're talking about right now is the possibility that Barry Morphew will walk out free on bond. Now, here's my concern. Straight out to Mike King, host of Profiling Evil on YouTube. You can find him profilingevil.com. Mike, Suzanne Morphew kept a journal religiously. It was not found when the home was searched. In fact, Barry Morphew was caught on video, home surveillance video,

going into the home for the first time since she's been reported missing, and he's not really even curious. He's not looking around. He's not racing to find her cell phone, nothing. But I do know that there was a book found burned in the fireplace. There was enough left to determine a book was burned. And I'm wondering if that was her journal. My point is, if he gets out and he did it, will he try to destroy more evidence? Exactly. And I think we have to consider the fact that a journal is such a personal item.

Sure, people may pull out a page here and there to try to get rid of a memory, but they're not going to get rid of all the good memories that are in there. And so that's really troubling that they were able to find the other books that they were specifically looking for, the Bible, the Al-Anon book, but they couldn't find the journal. And yes, if he's released, is he then in a position to destroy evidence that we don't know the location of yet? A really big concern. The guy doesn't have a home. Is he a flight risk if he's released? Let's talk about that flight risk, chance of tampering with evidence, chance of committing another crime, ties to the community. Those are just some of the criteria the judge will look at in determining bond. Flight risk, he just sold his home. What's to keep him there? Exactly. His daughters have moved away. He doesn't have family. He's there a short timer in reality. They've only been there a few years, so he has no real associations.

His business hasn't done well by all accounts, especially since Suzanne's disappearance. He sells his home. He has all the money bundled away somewhere. And he, to me, is a very big risk of being able to just disappear somewhere. Lauren Scharf, where did he get the money to buy that home? It's over a million dollar mansion. I was told by Suzanne's family, he had gotten some of the money from, you know, Suzanne's mother had passed away.

So she inherited some of the money. So some of that money that they used Jean Mormon as well, Suzanne's father. So money from her mother and from her father. Now he sold the home and pockets the profit. Interesting. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace guys for those of you just joining us we are talking about a ruling that's set to go down in hours and that is whether barry morphe will actually face formal murder charges in front of a jury and will he walk out free on bond? Is it true to you, Mike King, host of Profiling Evil, that when questioned by detectives, Barry Morphy responded,

I don't recall 95 times. Is this true? Well, that's what the testimony is and what the media is reporting. And that's really troubling because he had so many answers and yet simple answers about things like that or his reactions and the way he responds when he walks through the home. The first time after getting back into the home, when he discovers his wife's missing, all of those start to really provide a lot of behavioral information that you look at and say, this just doesn't seem right. What do you mean by that, Mike King, the way he acted in the home the first time since Suzanne has been reported missing? As the investigators went back in the home, they were looking for a piece of clothing to give to search dogs in order to have a scent and be able to follow. One of the remarkable things to the investigators, enough that they would put it in a report and testify about it during the prelim, is that he just nonchalantly went into

the house, went about getting the piece of clothing, didn't look around, didn't try to call his wife on the phone. All these things that the rest of us in our minds would say, if my wife suddenly disappeared or someone that I was very close to, I'd be asking questions. I'd be looking around. I'd want to look into the rooms and see if there was something that wasn't that way when I left at five o'clock in the morning. You know, Nancy, I would argue that goes to this reality that inaction speaks louder than words. That's what he didn't do. We're not even talking about what he said or didn't say or what he could or couldn't remember. The way he behaved, I don't think, you know, jurors are not going to be able to relate to that complete nonchalance in the face of his wife gone missing. I think that's a huge piece

of evidence. Straight out to Dr. Jory Craw I can't recall, I don't recall, 95 times in one interview? I've done a lot of interviews, and I can't recall them either. He seemed to be somewhat organized with this crime at the beginning, but with the passage of time, there's more and more of, like we were already saying, the inactivity, things that he didn't do. And that's very revealing. You know, let me say one thing that I would be concerned as a mental health for whatever purposes, but his mental state, if he is released out about possible suicide. Why are you saying that?

Well, just everything that we've talked about so far, when you start looking at the breakdown in his support system, his children, knowing now the evidence that he's seen before him, I would really think that, you know, he could be considering suicide. I believe, Lauren Scharf, joining us in Fox 21, that both of his adult children are supporting him. Yeah, they've been in the courtroom every single day for the preliminary hearing. And they're, you know, sending love and they say, you know, we miss you and we love you and sending, you know, hearts with their hands.

And, you know, they're saying that, you know, Barry Morphew is their best friend and that they miss him. And so they are very much in support of Barry Morphew. That's even more for it because when the truth is coming out, I mean, he is faced with one or two. He kind of thinks black and white. And that's usually, you know, what happens in suicide. It comes down to a black and white thinking and it may be his way of escaping out. What about you, Mike King, host of Profiling Evil? Do you see him making a run for it, committing suicide, or standing by waiting for trial?

You know, I think he has so much arrogance that he probably will stand firm. I don't know that I'm too concerned about suicide. I look at the daughters, and I think, what child wouldn't be supportive of a parent after losing another? I think you'll have some support, but the truth is going to continue to eat away at that. And and that's going to create this foundation to start to collapse around him. And then I think all these other concerns might come into play. I'm very curious. Let me ask you about a couple of facts. Mike King, was her cell phone ever recovered? No, not that I'm very curious. Let me ask you about a couple of facts, Mike King. Was her cell phone

ever recovered? No, not that I'm aware of. Lauren may have some more information having sat in the prelim, but I don't believe that it was ever revealed that it was recovered. Was it, Lauren? No, they haven't said that in court at all. So I guess the wild cougar, the mountain lion, took the cell phone. Okay. Cell phone not recovered. And back to you, Mike King, profiling evil. Her helmet, her bike itself was found on this very remote rural route. Her helmet was found a little less than a mile away. Where was the helmet?

I know that it was on Barry Morphew's route that he would have driven. But where was the helmet found? Yeah, that was really troubling. The bike, of course, is found in the little ravine dropping down off the gravel road just before it reaches Highway 50. The helmet is to the west, about eight-tenths of a mile, and it's just maybe 10 or 20 yards off of the road. Easy distance to be able to be thrown from a vehicle to the south. So as the vehicle, someone driving westbound could easily throw it out the driver's window and have it then end up in that location. The thing that's so intriguing about that is that according to testimony in the

interviews, Barry says he sees a herd of elk and he wants to pursue it because he's chasing antlers and he turns west and heads down the road, loses sight of him, has to turn around and head back the direction he would need to go to Denver and on to Broomfield. All of that just places him mysteriously in the same location the helmet is. You know, I'm glad you connected those dots for me, because I was already confounded by him going to the made-up job site at about 4 o'clock in the morning. And please jump in. There's so many facts.

I've got any of them wrong. And then he is, you have to get up and leave early to get there. But then you would take time to chase down a herd of elk. And then coincidentally, where you chase down the herd of elk is where her helmet is found. Do I have that right, Mike King? From all the testimony I heard, that's exactly the scenario. And you know, I can see someone wanting to turn and look at a big group of elk. The difference that I'm having trouble with is that this is pre-dawn, so the lighting is really tough. I don't know that there's anything to support that the elk in that area still have their antlers hanging on that late into April. And are the bulls actually running with the cows at that time of

year? And it just isn't normal. Well, what strikes me is human behavior. Lauren Scharf, based on where the helmet was found and the GPS coordinates of his truck, do they match together? And I was speaking about human behavior. If I had to get up at four o'clock, which many times I do, to be on a location at a certain time early in the morning, why would you take time to chase down a herd of elk? If you have to get up at four o'clock in time to get somewhere, that doesn't make sense to me. Well, he even told investigators that he had packed his truck the night before and that he left around five. And and it doesn't match, you know, the data from his cell phone where it was last ping because she supposedly was in bed sleeping as well. According to Barry Morphew's testimony at five o'clock when her phone was pinging around for elsewhere. And, you know, and then his phone and then his testimony as well, saying that he

turned left on Highway 50 when he should have been going right also is interesting as well. Where was her last ping, Lauren? At 4 a.m., did you say? Yeah, a little after 4 a.m., and it was around Pontius Springs, I believe. Where is that in relation to her home? It's about a 10-minute, 15-minute drive from Maysville. Man, Jessica Morgan. What Lauren Scharf just said, in my mind, is a bombshell.

That destroys his whole story that he left her asleep in bed, had to get up early and leave. Her cell phone is pinging at 4 a.m., 15 minutes away from the home. Yeah, is he traveling down the road with her phone? And maybe it can be concluded that he's traveling down the road with her as well. And God only knows

what kind of state she's in. So that can be implied, I think, and would be implied by investigators. They would be looking specifically around that area where they got that last ping. It would not surprise me if they had not gone out there with dogs to check that area. I'm just really curious if they got any hits out there that haven't been revealed. I would imagine to this point they would have. But again, Nancy, I go back to this idea that there's any number of places that her mortal remains could be spirited away to and hidden in some abandoned mine shaft or something like that, that he would have an awareness of potentially. Can we tell any of that from the GPS monitoring on his truck, Joe Scott? I would think that you would be able to, Nancy, that they

would be able to at least triangulate a rough position on him, depending upon what the signal is like in that area. Let's keep in mind, this is a rugged, isolated area. I don't know if folks at home really understand how isolated it is. It's the kind of place that you want to go to get lost, and you're thankful for it. You've traveled across this area of the country, Nancy. I've traveled across this area. It's peaceful.

It's beautiful. But it's also remote, to say the very least. So I don't know if these signals are intermittent or not. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Lauren Scharf, Fox 21 investigative reporter joining us, who's been on the story from the very beginning. Lauren, a lot of the evidence will be taken into account by the judge when determining if Barry Morphew will walk free on bond and if the case will be bound over for trial for murder one. What can you tell me?

Why was there a spy pin in Barry Morphew's car? And what do you believe it ultimately revealed? So Suzanne Morphew, she wanted this spy pin and she actually ordered it and sent it to a friend in Florida so that I guess Barry Morphew wouldn't find out about it. And when she went to Florida to meet her up with her dad, she also met up with her friend to get the spy pen. And when she came home, she would place it in areas to catch Barry Morphew in conversation and things like that. And one place was his truck and it's a voice activating spy pen. So you don't have to be there to turn it on or anything like that and it would catch conversations or what he was doing in his truck and you know they they have

multiple audio recordings of Suzanne and Barry having arguments in the truck. And then also, you know, what he was listening to, you know, months before Suzanne went missing. Wow. So I understand that it also caught her talking to her boyfriend. Yes. And at the time, they didn't know who that was. They just had this voice. And they, you know, the investigators said that they asked multiple people if they could recognize who this voice was. And eventually they did find out it was Jeff Wibler. Where was the spy pin in Morphe's truck? They have not said that. I don't know. She must have hidden it really well because he never found it. What can you tell me about claims that Suzanne Morphy was planning to leave the country with her boyfriend? I guess on the spy pen they and

also interviews that they had with Jeff Littler, investigators found out that they had talked about going to Ecuador and she had looked up, you know, if she could teach there possibly. And, and so there wasn't any set plan to go. It sounded like at least they just were in the beginning stages of maybe looking to go to Ecuador for a trip. What would she teach in Ecuador? English? Yes. Got it. You know, I'm very curious. He claims he did not, Barry Morphew, did not know about the affair. I don't know that I believe that. I think he did know about the

affair. How would you characterize, Mike King, the state of their marriage? All reports are that there was difficulty in it. There were reports that Susanna told a friend that the marriage was having difficulty, may have even said that it was over of the marriage and the health of the marriage. And then, of course, there's the information that came out of the preliminary hearing about the daughter, Macy, saying that she should consider getting a restraining order against Barry and consider divorce.

Is it true, Mike King, that Barry Morphew was, quote, shooting chipmunks the day before Suzanne goes missing. I'm just trying to make any connection to that 22 caliber round. Yeah, I think that's something the defense will have to jump onto and use it as a reason why that ends up in there, that that's such a small round that it could easily get stuck in his pocket and get pulled out at some particular point. So they're going to have to put a reason for that being there. And there has been testimony that he was shooting a huge amount of squirrels in the area around the house and living in that barment country that Joe Scott talked about. That's not uncommon at all for people to take

a.22 rifle out to shoot those ground squirrels. To Joe Scott Morgan, when we're talking about around, explain. Yeah, the around itself is a live bit of ammunition. That means that the actual casing, the copper jacket that people are, the copper case that you see is intact, still with the bullet in place, and that the powder is still in there, the propellant. When we're talking about casings, most of the time that means a spent round. It's been ejected. It's laying around. And to Mike's point just a moment ago, if he has been varmint shooting like this, Nancy, and it's going all around the perimeter of the house, I would think that a simple sweep of this area with metal

detector could probably confirm this unless he reloads. He would not be picking these rounds up potentially. He'd be popping off rounds all over the place. You'd find these spent casings laying all over the ground outside of the home. I think that would be very interesting to follow up on as well. Did neighbors hear any shooting, Lauren Scharf? No, they have not said that at all in court that anyone heard anything. So nobody heard the shooting of the squirrels and then I guess have to stand up on one leg on top of the bed to shoot a squirrel out the window for the live ammo to be found beside her bed. The state is claiming that they believe Barry Morphew chased Suzanne around the home with a dart gun, tranquilized her and ended up killing her. What did the defense say to that,

Lauren Scharf? How are they going to refute the chasing with a dart gun theory? Well, they said that the tranquilizer dart gun didn't work. They played, you know, the surveillance or not surveillance body cam video of one of the deputies who was looking at the gun in the garage. And, you know, he said on the day he looked at it, it wasn't operable or it hadn't worked in quite some time or it hadn't shot in quite some time or hadn't shot in quite some time. So that's one way that they, you know, said that. And then also, they really wanted to clarify what was found in the dryer. And they also kind of implied that one of the investigators had placed it in the dryer, because there was a sound of a clinking noise after the investigator had put his hands in the dryer.

Wow. But isn't Mike King, I thought he, Barry Murphy himself, said that he told investigators that he'd used it to shoot a deer in hopes of being able to take and cut off the antlers off of the deer. So again, the question becomes, is it possible for deer, were their antlers still on the head at that time of year? But that opens up other violations. Not only is that just incredibly inhumane for an animal that uses its antlers to defend itself, but that's against the law from at least all the laws I'm aware of. Can we just deal with the murder one charge before we go to the ant or inhumane treatment charge? But when did he claim he used the dart gun? Do you know, Lauren?

I mean, he would just say this. He didn't give it a specific time. He just was saying this to investigators when they were asking if, you know, he ever used the tranquilizer dart gun. Nancy, I got to say, this whole idea that he used this gun, whether or not he used it it is kind of pointless. The fact is that did he or did he not have functional live darts with tranquilizer in them? You can still use these things in order to take somebody down with it. If you're using something like it's a very common tranquilizer, it's non-opiate called xylene, that you could use it. It's like a muscle relaxer. It makes people go to sleep, that sort of thing.

So was this actually used? The fact that the conveyance of this thing didn't function like it was supposed to, I think going to the heart of it is, did he have the darts in his possession? Could they be actuated or actually utilized without using the gun? Could he just take the cap off and insert it into somebody? I don't know. That's a question I'd have to ask somebody brighter than me to answer. You know, my research online. Is that Mike King? Jeff Hans, pick up. What?

I'm so sorry. Yeah, my research online is that that can manually be injected. It's the process of the explosion of the chemical through the dart into the person. And once that thing leaves the weapon, it's the same as a hand pushing it in. Once it hits and plunges in deep enough, it releases the chemical. So someone could manually do that. I've got to say, I think that's Wendy Patrick jumping in. Wendy, I've never had a case that I tried where a dark gun was used to tranquilize the human. So what were you trying to say? I hear what Mike King is saying, and I think he's correct. Yeah, I've never had a case like that either. But it occurs to me that if a dark gun is not nearly as loud as a different type of gun, that could be the first resort you would use if you intended to

not leave any earwitnesses, commit a murder at your home, and then take the body somewhere else, especially as Joe Scott said, in an area you go to get lost, I would say, or to hide evidence, if that is your weapon of choice in the home, because it's not as loud. So whether or not it functioned, it could certainly be a piece of evidence that it was an option that was pursued, even though it didn't work. And, you know, there's been DNA found in Suzanne's car and on her bike. Unknown DNA. How big of a deal is that, Joe Scott Morgan? Well, it's a big deal in the sense that someone else other than in her familial circle may have had contact with these items. The question is, can they tie it back to anybody specifically? If they're not on some kind of predator list that's out there, you're whistling past a graveyard at that point.

You're not going to have a hoot and hell's chance to try to figure out who it is. I think that it could insert somebody else, certainly for the defense. It could insert somebody else into this dance that they're doing right now and all these preliminary hearings. Hold on just a moment, Dr. Jory Crawson. If there's one person on that jury that falls for what Joe Scott Morgan was just saying, unknown male DNA on her bike or in her car. For all I know, it was the car repairman from a month ago. It could be anybody, but if that places doubt in one juror's mind, the state could lose. That's reasonable doubt enough. Yeah, definitely. As a defense attorney,

I don't know about that, but go ahead. I think they would really highlight that, you know, drive that home and hope that one juror would find that as reasonable doubt. You know, Wendy Patrick, do we have to find her body to go forward? I know we don't have to legally, but as a practical matter to win the case, does the state need her remains? I don't think in a case like this where you have so much other circumstantial evidence,'t think in a case like this where you have so much other circumstantial evidence, if there were a case where we had very little to go on, or there was very little that was found, including the evidence that appears to be the cover-up

evidence, I think maybe it would be, a jury would want to see it. But here, I don't think that's where we are, Nancy. And I got to ask you, Mike King, I find some of the most persuasive evidence to be the GPS evidence of his car and his truck. I mean, he goes out from one dump to the next, emptying trash five times. Is that on his way to the work site? All indications are that that is on the way or once he reaches Broomfield. So during that whole period of time. And you're right, the GPS from the vehicle is going to be a satellite direction where from the phone it's going to be triangulated off the cell tower. So the vehicle GPS will be actually a little bit more accurate.

You know, I started our whole program today with cuts on his hands and crocodile tears. I was talking about cuts on Morphew that look like fingernail markings and the crocodile tears. Explain that, Mike King. Well, I don't know. You wonder if it's theatrics or true emotion. And the prosecution witness testified that it seemed a little odd to him. And so that's what I have. What was odd? Just just the theatrics and the large tears and the emotion over this and the well-placed emotion. But again, I'm just responding from what I've read and listened to.

What about it, Lauren Sharf? What are the crocodile tears that they're talking about? Prosecution felt like he wasn't your typical grieving husband. It was like he was putting on an act when needed to, when he needed to, like, you know, when he first got to the scene, you know, the immediate questions about there was a crash, where was the crash, and not kind of finding, asking, you know, questions about where's my, you know, have you found my wife, things like that, that a typical grieving husband would, would ask, and then they found, you know, they didn't photograph his arms with the cuts, you know, the, the barely healed cuts on them until Wednesday, and, you know, the

undersheriff described them as fingernail marks on his upper left arm. But then he said that they were scratches from searching for Suzanne in the woods. Well, the defense is going to argue about crocodile tears. He's damned if he does, and he's damned if he doesn't. If he cries, they'll claim crocodile tears. If he doesn't cry, they'll say, you're so cold hearted. You know what? We can speculate all we want, but it all depends on what a judge is going to do. The hearing will reach resolution when the judge decides, will the case finally go to a jury? And we'll bury more if you walk free on bond. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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