Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sydney Sutherland, 25, murdered, THEN RAPED; SUSPECT CLAIMS 'I WAS INSANE' THAT DAY. SYDNEY'S MOM speaks to Nancy.

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Accused murderer Quake Lewellyn is competent to stand trial in the death of nurse Sydney Sutherland. The Arkansas farmer's attorney had asked for a mental evaluation. Arkansas State Hospital forensic psychologist Lacey Willett examined Lewellyn in January and writes: “It is my opinion that at the time of the alleged conduct, Mr. Lewellyn did not manifest symptoms of a mental disease or mental defect.”Joining Nancy Grace today: Maggie Sutherland, Victim's Mother Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ San Diego Dr. Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A beautiful 25-year-old girl goes jogging, then she seemingly vanishes into thin air. In the last hours, breaking news in the case of Sidney Sutherland. The man who becomes a person of interest claims he was insane that day. Really? Sidney Sutherland works at a medical center in Newport, Arkansas. On the afternoon of August 19th, she goes for a jog, something she does on a regular basis. Sydney even has a regular route that she follows near her home.

A UPS driver reports seeing Sydney during her jog between 2.30 and 3 p.m. that afternoon. But that was the last time anyone reports seeing her. Later that evening, a call comes in to authorities. Sydney Sutherland's car keys and other belongings are at her house. But Sydney is gone. What happened to this 25-year-old girl, Sydney Sutherland? With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, Alexis Teresco joining us.

CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and with LeadStories.com, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a brand new hit series, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network, death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, Wendy prosecutor, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of red flags. And you can find her on today with Dr. Wendy on KCBQ, Dr. Karen Stark joining us, a psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. And you can find her at Karen Stark dot com and special guests joining me, Maggie Sutherland. This is Sidney's mother, and you can find her at the Sidney Sutherland Memorial Scholarship at Arkansas State University. Thank you to everyone being with us. Take a listen to this. We received a call yesterday afternoon, that Sydney Sutherland was missing. We started out, got to scene, and we've been working pretty much all night. We did finally break it down about 2 o'clock this morning just for safety concerns because of the darkness. Got started back this morning

between 7.30 and 8. We've had multiple agencies show up and offer assistance. We've had Jonesboro PD, Truman PD, Newport PD, Tuckerman, state police, U.S. Marshals, FBI, pretty much the whole gamut. And they're currently on scene right now helping out with that. We're looking at not only on the ground. We've had air searches also from a survival flight out of Batesville. They brought two helicopters over this morning. Arkansas State Police brought their chopper out last night and again this morning. They're currently flying grid searches now. Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan,

Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. You know, a lot of people get frustrated when the search does not continue through the night with lights and dogs. But the reality is everything searchers would have done in the night would have to be repeated the following morning. It's not feasible. And I know it's frustrating and upsetting to everyone when the search is called off for the night. Yeah, you're right. And it is frustrating, Nancy.

But you have to take into consideration what the end game is here. You're trying to find someone that is missing. And if you go out in the darkest of nights and keep in mind, this is a massive agricultural area. There is no man-made light out there. This is all illuminated by natural light. If there is any at that particular time, you could walk right over an area and miss significant clues. So it's better just to kind of retreat, wait till daybreak and go back out again. Or even destroy the clues, because in this case, we know that one of the clues that was very telling was actually a bead, a bead of Sidney's bracelet to Maggie Sutherland.

This is Sidney's mother. Maggie, I'm going to get to the news, but I want to ask you about that night when the search was called off because of darkness. What was going through your mind when you heard the search was called off for the night? Well, it just broke my heart, but the search was called off. But everyone did leave, like all the people helping and everything. But my boys and their best friends, they stayed up all night by themselves because everyone was gone. And they went up and down that road. They walked up and down that road. They stayed up all night long just trying, you know, every little place through where we were all searching, they stayed up all night,

you know, but all the other people had left. You know, when I went through something very similar to this, Ms. Sutherland, it seemed like day and night got twisted around. It seemed like there wasn't a day or a night because you're up all night and all day and your body doesn't seem to feel the fact that you've been up days on end. Yes, yes. It was non-ending for those days. It was no sleep, just running, you know, looking and searching all day and all night. And now to think, to think the man under suspicion says he was insane that day, that day of all days. Take a listen to our friends at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. This is the sheriff, David Lucas, describing a brand new development in the case of

missing Sydney Sutherland. We have, the only thing we know of right now is we have a confirmed sighting of her at around between 2.30 and 3 o'clock yesterday afternoon in the area of Jackson County Road 41, which is just north and kind of west of her residence. She was on foot out walking and jogging. We received that information from a UPS driver this morning that saw her. We're kind of concentrating on that general area because with the phone pings that we've been getting from AT&T plus the information from the people that said they saw her it's pretty much going to be in that general area and that's where we're concentrating the most right now we're not ruling anything out not ruling

anything out I'm very curious about that day to you Wendy, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags at WendyPatrickPhD.com. She's also the star of Today with Dr. Wendy on KCBQ. Wendy, I was looking at an incredible job done by New Canaan police in Connecticut in the case of missing mom of five, Jennifer Dulos. They pieced together video from ring doorbells, from home security surveillance, from traffic light video, from this one really got me. When a bus, a public bus, the doors opened, you saw video of the husband driving by at that moment to a business video at a car wash. They put it all together and created a video montage timeline. Leading up to my question, Dr. Wendy, Patrick, and that is in UPS trucks, isn't there video of some sort or at least a navigational tool?

Yeah, we hope that there is. And even if there is in practicality, sometimes they're not working, which is heartbreaking. Because as we know, it is the first few hours and sometimes few days that is the most significant in this kind of a search. And that timeline, Nancy, that you described, that tells the story the victim cannot. And if we can weave that together through whatever evidence circumstantially exists, whether it's something from a UPS truck, whether it's a tracker, whether it's a cell phone video, ring camera video that we all use nowadays, if we can piece that timeline together, even right at the beginning, not only can we hopefully recover evidence, but we'll be able to tell the story of what ended up happening. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm talking about the disappearance of Sydney Sutherland, 25 years old, young girl, never been married, looking forward to life. Great job helping other people, looking forward to starting a family, real fitness buff. Let me go to Maggie Sutherland, Sydney's mother.

That day you saw Sydney just before she went on that jog, correct? What happened? She had come by my house because she got up that morning and went to the gym, which is in Jonesboro, which is about 30 miles away, did a workout, come by my house, visited with me a few minutes, went and got the mail, come back, and she was then going to drop off something at her brother's because we just got back from our vacation the night before

like around nine and ten and so we just got back from florida uh then she was gonna stop at the store she was gonna get something because she was gonna bake some cookies or brownies she didn't know which one so she went to the store got that she went home um she did tell me when she was going to bake some cookies or brownies. She didn't know which one. So she went to the store, got that. She went home. She did tell me when she was at my house she was going to run. I said, Cindy, well, how can you run? You know, you just worked out, you know, just relax. Well, at the house, she did.

She went in, changed her clothes because she wears different clothes because it's a county road, dirt and everything. And on the couch right at the edge is laying her bags bag where she bought the cookies and the brownies to make. And she just went and that was the, I didn't hear from her anymore. She got in touch with her boyfriend saying, I'm going for my run. Guys, take a listen. Take a listen to our friend Hunter Hoagland, K-A-R-K, with a break that day. They recovered Sutherland's phone about a quarter mile from her home earlier today. Now, I talked to friends of the family who say this whole thing has them searching for answers.

As the sun sets, the clock is ticking. Won't ever stop searching. No one has seen or heard from Sydney Sutherland in more than a day after she went running down this road, leaving behind pain at the crossroads. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be

careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be

careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to be I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT HER MOTHER AND HOW SHE FELT AND HOW IT WOULD BE AWFUL NOT TO BE ABLE TO FIND YOUR DAUGHTER. EVERYBODY, OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY

LOVES HER. YOU CAN TELL BY ALL THE PEOPLE THAT'S OUT LOOKING FOR HER. SOUTHERLAND 5'3", BROWN EYES, BLONDE HAIR WAS WEARING THIS WHEN SHE VANISHED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AFTERNOON. YOU'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE

LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER EVERYWHERE YOU GO AND NOT GOING ANYWHERE ALONE ANYMORE. VOLUNTEERS WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK SAYING THEY'LL NEVER QUIT LOOKING AT THEIR MOTHER. I'M JUST SO EXCITED.

I'M JUST SO EXCITED. I'M JUST SO EXCITED. I'M JUST SO EXCITED. I'M JUST SO EXCITED. I'M JUST SO EXCITED. You're definitely going to be looking over your shoulder everywhere you go and not going anywhere alone anymore. Volunteers working around the clock, saying they'll never quit looking until Sydney Sutherland finds the road that leads back home. We just want to find her. And then the case takes a turn. Take a listen to Katie Woodall, KAIT Region 8. Those close to Sydney confirming just a few minutes ago that the body discovered today was hers.

This is coming from Sydney's boyfriend's parents. They said the family was told the body discovered today was Sydney's. They also said an arrest has been made in this case. Now we are working to get official confirmation from Sheriff David Lucas, but he has not released new information since this afternoon when that body was discovered. And an arrest did go down. Take a listen to Mitch McCoy, Fox 16. Quake Llewellyn apparently confessed to investigators that he had killed her

and then led investigators to her body. Llewellyn was driving on County Road 41, saw Sidney Sutherland walking and drove by. LIEUTENANT. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS PROMISED TO BE CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS.

THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS.

THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CREDITED BY THE PROSECUTORS. buried the body on a farm. I asked the prosecutors if he plans on pursuing the death penalty. I think it's premature to declare what the state's direction will be on that. Capital murder only carries two punishments. That's life without and death. And at this point, both are still on the table. Both still on the table. Now, let me understand this to Alexis Tereschuk,

CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, thank you for being with us. He confessed, right? He confessed. He sure did. He actually turned himself into the police. He went originally to say that he maybe had some information and then he confessed to the whole crime. But his story changed a little bit. You know, as the reporter just said, he said he put her in his truck and took her away. But then he changed his story to he drove by her. Then he turned back around and was going to maybe check on her. But oops, he hit her with his car.

Not true. He plowed over her with his car. Why in the world to Sidney's mother, Maggie Sutherland, when I pass a jogger, I don't turn around to go check on them. And then to say, and I've been on many, I grew up on a red dirt road. I've been on many a gravel road and dirt road and dusty road. But for me, turning my car around and going back the other way, I've never seen the dust so thick. I couldn't see someone. Never happened. And he's actually changing his story to say when he turned around, it kicked up the dust. He didn't see her and ran over her.

Yes, he has changed it. But where this area is, is an overpass and it has pavement that comes off of it and where he was that there was no does so when he passed her he hit the pavement went over overpass stayed on pavement turned around and he says he came back and that the dust was in his eyes and that he heard a thump. He gets out of his truck and says, Sydney, are you okay? And he said she didn't respond, so we put him back in the truck. It's not true because it is all pavement and there's a very questionable of what he's saying there. Ms. Sutherland, I know that it hurts you

when he comes out with one story after the next, after the next, but just trust me on this. He needs to keep talking because I could just see the prosecutor at trial with a video of this paved road showing it to him as he's on the stand, if he dares to take the stand,

say, now, what, where was the dust that got stirred up when you turned your truck around? Because this is all pavement. And you never know with a jury what little fact is going to infuriate them just the way that we are feeling today. So every time he comes out with another statement, just thank God that he is still talking. If his lawyer can't shut him up. And of course, we are learning in the last hours, a major break with the guy, the target in this case, Quake Llewellyn, a 28 year old neighbor. Isn't this right, Ms. Sutherland, that came to the search headquarters and actually hugged Sidney's family as if he were supporting them during the search, when all along, he is the one that ran her over dead? Yes, he was there. His whole family was out there the whole time.

What is that, Karen Stark? Karen Stark, psychologist, psychologist joining me out of Manhattan today. Why not just go home and lay low? Just go away. Why does he have to go to the search HQ and go up and hug on Sidney's family knowing full well, not only did he kill her, he raped her after he ran over her. And supposedly he said, well, are you OK, Sidney? But he didn't call an ambulance or the police who put her in his truck. So, Nancy, that is not unusual behavior. It's wanting to be involved in the discovery and getting some kind of thrill by actually being there, knowing that he committed the crime and pretending that he's going to be helping the family. Even after he gives a confession, further torturing the family.

Take a listen to our cut 19. This is from THV 11. The man accused of killing Sidney Sutherland pleaded not guilty today. Quake Llewellyn faces several charges including capital murder, kidnapping and rape. Llewellyn also asked for a jury trial during today's hearing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the disappearance and death and sex assault of a beautiful young 25-year-old girl. Her life in front of her. Wonderful job helping other people.

A real fitness buff. Looking forward to starting her own family someday. All those dreams mowed down by a guy, a neighbor, who I believe had some sort of obsession on her throughout high school. Mows her down. Loads her into his truck by his own admission, takes off her shorts and rapes 25-year-old Sidney as she is in an altered state from being run over or dead. Then goes and buries her body in a shallow grave.

Then, to add insult to injury, declares he is insane. Straight out to Alexis Tereschuk, everything he did was calculated and planned. When he rode by her in his truck, he stopped and turned around and went back after her. That was planned. How could he say he's mentally insane? Exactly. And that's the thing. This is what his attorney, his defense attorney has come up with. But what he also said at the time was that he put her body in the flatbed of the truck so nobody could see it. That is not somebody who's insane. That's somebody who is scared and knows that they have done the wrong

thing. He then took her body far away, you know, to a deserted area, which he knows that area because what he does is he checks on the wells and the rice fields out there. So he's familiar with this area. This isn't something that I panic, oh, no, I don't know where I am. Oh, he knows the area. He knows where people wouldn't be able to find her. He takes her almost three miles away, which is, I mean, three miles is really far.

You think, oh, Sydney probably ran 20 miles a day because she was so fit, but it's really far away for somebody to take somebody. So he's hiding it and he doesn't just leave her body on the ground where somebody could find it and help her at the last minute. He buries it with a shovel he has in his truck. This is not somebody who... I happen to have right in front of me the criminal responsibility evaluation report. And I am quoting from the doctor, Dr. Lacey C. Willett. Okay. And this is what the doctor says, Mr. Llewellyn referred for an evaluation specifically by reason of mental disease or mental defect,

lack capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or conform his conduct to the requirements of the law at the time of the offense. What? What? To you, Maggie Sutherland, this is Sidney's mother joining us. He couldn't appreciate the criminality of his offense when he drove by your daughter, went back, ran over her, loaded her into a truck bed, took her to a secretive location, pulled her clothes down, raped her and buried her body. He hid her. He knew it was wrong. What was your reaction when you heard Quake Llewellyn was claiming he was crazy that day of all days? I knew all along that he was not. He was not, never was, and that he was being advised to say that because there was no way. You know, as we just said, everything, he knew what he was doing. He certainly did know what he was doing. Have you heard from his family at all during this? No, we have not spoke any with their family.

We've kind of been advised just to stay away from each other. Well, you know what? They don't have to say anything because they said it all. Straight out to you, Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. When the wife and the mother

were part of the call to police to tell them that his truck looked different after Sidney went missing. Remember that, Alexis? Yes. These two, the women closest to him, his wife and his mom, they reported him. They knew that something was up and, and they, they saw, you know, he actually said that he tried to forget what he had done. He just went about his life. He went home, took a shower. He had dinner. He went to work the next day, but the mom and the wife knew they called the police. They said, is there something odd with the truck? It looks different. We don't know what could have happened. And how could you know? Why would you think, oh, he hit a person like you wouldn't a normal person wouldn't think that. But they knew that something was wrong and they reported him and his wife has since filed for

divorce. Well, I guess so. Get away from him. And Justice Scott Morgan, pursuant to Llewellyn's wife and mom being part of learning to police that his vehicle was there, what was found on the vehicle and why is that so significant, Joe Scott Morgan? Well, there's front end damage to the vehicle, Nancy. And, you know, my apologies in advance to Sydney's mama. She's on the line, but I've got to say this. One of the things that we do in the context of examinations in the morgue is, you know, we look for specific things. And one of the things we look for or what are referred to as bumper marks, and those are marks that are left behind on the remains. They give you an indication that a strike has taken place, like a blunt force trauma that is very unique looking when it occurs as a result of a vehicle. And we can actually measure that relative to, say, for instance, what we refer to as bumper height on the vehicle.

If we can come up with a vehicle where it marries up and as you know, as investigations work, you whittle this information down. And when you come to his truck and you notice that it's damaged, that's that's a nail in his coffin from a from a prosecutorial standpoint. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Wendy Patrick, I see the questions the doctor is asking him. She's asking, were you on any drugs or alcohol? Were you on any medication? Trying to rule out that his reasoning was clouded in any way, Wendy Patrick?

That's right. When you're looking at somebody that is apparently sober, it makes a big difference if you're looking at strategy and sophistication. So when somebody admits to criminal conduct as here, the criminal responsibility is going to be an issue. Is there some sort of an insanity defense? Can you argue that there is some kind of a mental disease or defect? But when you do that, in a case like this, you're looking at literally both the crime and the cover-up. And when somebody is not impacted by substances, by altered states of consciousness, all the kinds of things that psychologists and psychiatrists look for, then you are left with somebody that has the mens rea, the intent, as we say,

the intent that will be married up with the actual conduct in a case like this. To Maggie Sutherland, this is Sidney's mother, and you can find her at the Sidney Sutherland Memorial Scholarship at Arkansas State University. If you go to CrimeOnline.com, we have a link there if you want to donate in honor of Sidney Sutherland. When you first learned this guy that you've been aware of, kind of known your whole life, claimed he was crazy, the one day he murders your daughter what went through your mind I was very mad sad hurt everything but I knew but just because you could tell it's kind of premeditated when someone turns around and goes back it just to this day gives me chills to even think what he did to my daughter. Because it was just very cruel, evil things.

You know, he just didn't do one thing. He just, everything. And it will never be out of my mind. Hurts deeply. Who told you that he basically failed in his bid to claim he was crazy at the time? Who told you that it didn't work, that the doctor could see through it? I was just told at the house, they brought me back to the house and then they kind of had us a family group there and just told us what they had found and what at that point was being said. You know, they would have to do a little more investigating.

No, I mean, when you found out he was claiming he was crazy, and then you, how did you find out he was claiming insanity? Our prosecutors contacted us saying that they were wanting to have a state eval. Okay. And who told you that basically he flunked? From the report and our prosecutors. So they called you and told you? Yes.

Yes, we did. We just got it. It's really new. We just got it. Yes. Yes. I have read every single word to you, psychologist Karen Stark, joining us out of Manhattan. The doctor that did this forensic exam of his insanity at the Arkansas State Hospital, discusses how Llewellyn engaged in a number of purposeful, goal-directed behaviors on the day of the offense, that he checked wells that morning, ate lunch, then resumed checking

wells. After the murder, he continued checking wells until about 6 p.m., then had dinner with his family, indicating he was capable of acting in a purposeful manner at that time. And based on all the information, she says Llewellyn was clearly sane. What do you make of it? Well, it makes perfect sense. Think about it, Nancy. I mean, the whole point is, did he lack the capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct? In other words, did he know the difference between right and wrong? Did he understand that his actions were not okay, that he was going to get in trouble. And he did. He even said that he put her in the tail part of his truck,

because he was worried that he would be in trouble. He didn't want to get in trouble. You know, another thing strikes me, Karen Stark, we've covered a lot of cases like this where after a brutal murder, the perp goes out to dinner. I've seen so many Big Macs and double cheeseburgers at Burger King ordered after a murder. I don't get it. How can you sit down with your family in this case and eat dinner when you know this girl's body is out there in a shallow grave and her parents parents and her fiance are wondering, where is Sidney?

And you're sitting there having meatloaf and mashed potatoes. Are you kidding me? That's why he's not telling the truth when he says that he tried to make himself forget about it. The truth, Nancy, is that he's a psychopath. So he doesn't have a conscience. He doesn't really think about, oh, you know, this is terrible. How can I live with myself? No, he could eat dinner.

He could have big baths. He could take a shower and act with his family like everything is okay because for him, everything is okay. It's the same as if he hit an animal in the road, something that might upset all of us. No, not saved at all. Yes. Guys, take a listen to Amanda Hanson, KAIT Region 8.

James says stress or a certain life event could play a part. And in any case, it's important to have a professional make those determinations. Under the Arkansas law, you don't particularly have to be crazy or not know what you're doing or unable to control yourself to still be able to use mental health evidence if it's appropriate to your mental state and what happened. Llewellyn is set to appear in front of a judge and jury February 16th. James says this motion will probably push that back. We're learning in documents just released the psychologist Lacey Willett says Llewellyn did not manifest any symptoms of a mental disease or defect, no history of mental health treatment, no medication of any kind, no mention of any bizarre speech or conduct during his interview. He's facing multiple charges of capital murder, kidnap and rape. No mention of any bizarre speech or conduct during his interview. He's facing multiple charges of capital murder, kidnap, and rape.

Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com, our cut, 32. The married stepfather of three says he believed Sutherland was dead after hitting her with his truck. He told a state psychologist that he was scared and afraid he would be in trouble for running over the nurse. Instead of calling 911 for help, he put her body in the tailgate of his truck. He intended to hide the body. He admitted that after he killed Sutherland, he tried messing with her corpse, then went home, ate dinner, and just tried to forget about it. Quote, messing with her corpse. Now, you know what? A lot of people, Joe Scott Morgan, would consider that crazy in itself, that he would disrobe and rape her body.

The only silver lining to that is that I hope she was unconscious at the time and did not realize what was happening. I imagine that she was because of the injury she sustained when she was run over. But his behavior belies the street idea of the layperson's idea of crazy. Crazy is not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident. When a jury hears that, they're not going to think he's crazy. They're going to think he needs the death penalty. Yeah, they're going to think he's depraved and totally depraved. And to take it even further, he has a complete absence of compassion at all. Not one scintilla.

And, you know, back to what Karen had said just a moment ago, this guy is not nuts. You know, he's not. He's calculating. He is sociopath. He has no feeling whatsoever. And let me, if you like that one, let me tell you another one. I think that he had actually planned this. This is an isolated area, Nancy. I think that he had been watching this poor lady for a long, long time. He knew what her patterns were.

He knew when she was coming, when she was going. And he took this opportunity to prey on her. And he hunted her. That's what I believe based upon his behaviors. And when he went to that, you know, when he got together and he was, you know, hugging on people and telling everybody, you know, how sorry he was. He was there for the sole purpose to find out if he was going to get in trouble. He wanted more information because I think based upon what we know relative to what he had done with poor Sidney's remains, I think if he had gotten one bit of information, he would have gone back out there and probably manipulated the area even further or moved her again. He was seeking information.

He just wanted to be free of it, to escape it, and not pay the ultimate price, which I think, in this case, he's going to. Ms. Sutherland, Sidney's mother with us, Ms. Sutherland, I'm sure the prosecutor has told you this, but let me tell you, there are going to be many, many defense maneuverings that will just break your heart because they're not true. They are absolutely not true or based in fact. It's all twisting and turning to try to get him a good deal. So please, like this claim of insanity, it would have driven me crazy if I had been in your shoes knowing that it was a lie.

But there's going to be this and much more before we get justice, Ms. Sutherland. So you just got to be strong. Thank you very much. And absolutely, that is how I feel daily. Every day is a day-by-day situation dealing with the loss of Sydney for our whole family. As you walk this lonely path that you have to walk alone, other people will try to comfort you,

make you feel better, but you are walking it alone, as is your husband, as is each person in your family, her boyfriend. Please know our prayers are with you, and I truly believe the justice system will get justice for you and Sydney. Really do.

Thank you for being with us. Thank you. Thank you so very much. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.