Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tara Grinstead Murder: Up & Vanished Podcaster Payne Lindsey

Episode Date: March 6, 2017

Payne Lindsey, whose podcast about the disappearance of Tara Grinstead is credited by many with helping to solve the cold case after more than a decade, is still digging into the the Georgia teacher��s murder. The “Up & Vanished” creator has new details about Ryan Alexander Duke, who was charged with assaulting and murdering Grinstead and then disposing of her body in a pecan orchard to conceal her death in 2005. He shares his latest findings with Nancy Grace in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. On Saturday, October 22nd, 2005, Tara Grinstead went missing from her residence. As the hours turned into days, days into weeks, weeks into months, and eventually months into years. The search efforts never ceased. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We always believed that it would be solved. We just did not know when. A few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that they had information into Tara's disappearance. Through these interviews, enough probable cause was discovered so we could swear out an arrest warrant charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead. Duke was taken into

custody yesterday afternoon and a warrant was issued this morning. Up and vanished. That is what happened to a high school history teacher. We all know her name now. Her name became famous after her disappearance. Tara Grinstead, out of the little town of Osceola. But in the last days, an incredible break in the case with an arrest. An arrest of a local man no one ever suspected. Tara goes missing 10-22-05, and for all these years, a cloud hung over the little town of

Osceola as everyone looked at each other. Who knew what? Who did what? Nobody knew the answer. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I want to thank you for being with us. With me right now, in addition to the GBI, of course, a man who is largely credited with keeping this case alive and ultimately leading to the crack in the case that resulted in an arrest of the man that we believe murdered Tara Grinstead. With me right now, Payne Lindsey. Payne, thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Payne, you latched on to Tara Grinstead, missing person, at the beginning of your podcast, Up and Vanished. I remember when she went missing, traveling to Osceola, meeting with the family, touring her home, looking for evidence, going from place to place to place in pain. I'm sure you've done the same thing. I would drive along the roadways looking at that dense forest headed towards swampland and wonder, is she there? Is she there? Is she that way? Is she buried? Is she alive? Where is Tara? What was it about Tara that made you latch a hold of that case, Payne? Well, you know, the circumstances surrounding Tara's disappearance to begin with were just

completely fascinating and mysterious as far as the latex glove in the yard, her car's there, her front door is locked. She just literally up and vanished. So, you know, just the general circumstances surrounding the case immediately drew me in. But once I talked to the community and met some of the locals and talked to Tara's friends, I realized how much her disappearance really affected this community of Osceola and really all of South Georgia. So really, that's what kept driving me to figure out, you know, who did this and get some answers for this town. You know, what's interesting is now that an arrest has been made of a guy that no one suspected, Ryan Alexander Duke, 32. He had graduated from Irwin County High School where Tara taught history three years before she went missing. But he was there while she was there. And of course,

what guy wouldn't have a crush on Tara Grinstead? Beautiful on the outside. She was in many, many beauty pageants. Beautiful on the inside. In fact, people first noticed she was missing when she didn't show up at church Sunday morning. And smart to boot. She was planning to enter a PhD program. Her dream was to become a school principal. So who wouldn't have a crush on her? What guy wouldn't? I doubt pretty seriously if she returned those affections but listen to what

tara's sister says it's it's sad to me what her sister anita gaddis says she says she has never stopped grieving that the arrest quote ripped the scab off wounds that have never totally healed. And it's like it is totally infected now. And when she heard the name, Ryan Alexander Duke, she said, I never heard of him. Who is this guy, Payne? You know, that's a very good question. And the GBI also said that they had never heard of him. He's a former student of Tara's who somehow completely went under the radar. You know, I've since talked to several of Ryan Duke's former classmates and

former friends, and he graduated in a small class of around 80 people. And the GBI claims to have swabbed almost 300 people in this case. So I'm just curious, how in the world did he never come up? That's amazing to me that nobody ever suspected him. Nobody even, I mean, his name, nobody knew of his name. He was totally off the radar. Well, one thing is he never got into any trouble, which leads me to wonder what this was all about. Now, reports say it's not clear what the relationship was between Grinstead and Deed. Well, I can tell you that. Okay? She did not have a relationship with him.

I'm promising you that, other than he may have been her student or attended the high school while she was teaching there. That's it. I have no doubt they did not have a dating relationship. I agree with you there. I think that there was no sort of relationship like that outside of just being a former student of hers. It makes you wonder though, what was Ryan Duke doing at her house that Saturday night? How does he get there? What was he doing there? Why was he in a position for this to happen? Yeah, I hear you. It may have been as simple as him burgling her home and then she comes home

and catches him. Could be that. Now, what about this? Investigators searching a Ben Hill County pecan farm where Grinstead's body may have been taken. What do you know about the search of a pecan farm? Well, you know, last Thursday when I heard the news about the press conference and we found out about Ryan Duke's arrest, the first thing I started hearing circulating around the town was this pecan orchard in Fitzgerald. And sure enough, you know, on last night's episode of Advantaged, on Monday's episode, I mentioned, I talked to somebody who said they heard a story about this pecan orchard involving Ryan Duke 10 years ago. And sure enough, the next day, the GBI released a statement saying that they are, in fact,

searching this pecan orchard in Fitzgerald, which belongs to the Hudson family, for her romance. And the property owners, of course, are not involved at all in the investigation, the Hudson family. They are not suspected in any way. A team of 41 investigators, an anthropologist, began digging through a heavily wooded area behind a farm in Ben Hill County. That's Fitzgerald. It was the second time in just seven days investigators searched that area. Now again, the property owners are not involved in the investigation.

Now what was circulating 10 years ago? What was the rumor circulating about why Alexander had anything to do with a pecan orchard? Well, I'm still vetting out all my sources, but what I can say right now is that I've heard several different accounts different stories from people who say that somebody who used to live on this pecan orchard was a roommate with Ryan Duke and this person may be involved with the tipster that came forward and through subsequent interviews by the GBI they found this location or they were led to this location by somebody. Or may be the tipster or may be involved with the tipster.

In other words, the former roommate, and we're hypothesizing, the former roommate of Alexander's living on that area or near the area of that pecan orchard may have told the tipster or may have been the tipster, for all I know. That's right. Implicating, possibly, that Alexander buried something there or had access there or was spotted there. Now look, I know Osceola is out in the middle of a heavily wooded area.

You go from miles and miles and miles and see nothing but pine trees. It's bordering a swamp area. But if it is your pecan orchard, you don't usually see people traipsing around that don't live there or don't have a business reason to be there. I mean, if I see somebody walking across my yard that I don't know, I want to know why they're there. So it would stick out in your mind if you see him marching across the property when he didn't belong there, I would think. Yes. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there has to be some connection with either the tipster, Ryan Duke, or both with being on that property. Do you think he goes by Ryan or does he go by Alexander? You know,

I don't know. Cause you know, in the courtroom he said, you know, please state your name. And he said, Ryan Alexander Duke. So it seems like he goes by his full name.

I think you're right. I had been thinking Alexander, but maybe he goes by both. Okay. We'll just go with Duke. No relation to Alan Duke. Okay. Go ahead.

Yeah. So I think that without a doubt, there is some relationship between Ryan Duke, the tipster, this other guy that's being brought up, and this pecan farm. There's no way that they're just marching around on this property by themselves without having any sort of connection to this place, or knowing that it may be a good place to hide something. What's interesting is if this has been floating around for 10 years, why are they looking at it now?

You know, I really don't know. And that's a very, very good question. And I'm looking into that every single day. I may have an answer. What's that? I may have an answer. You know, again,

if I saw a stranger walking across some property that didn't belong there, I would say, okay, that's weird. But I wouldn't necessarily associate that with a woman that's been missing for a couple of years. Especially if it was somebody you knew, if it was a family member or a friend of yours, you wouldn't think twice about them being on the property if they're always on the property.

Yeah. When you see someone, why would you think to connect them with a missing person? For sure. You wouldn't. You would never think that. So, you know, before I trash the police on that, when we're investigators, why would they connect him to Tara Grinstead? You know what's interesting? We were hypothesizing. With me is awesome guest Payne Lindsey, who created Up and Vanished podcast, which has been devoted

to cracking the case of the disappearance of Tara Grinstead. Tara goes missing October 22, 2005, as I recall, and she had been to a cookout at the superintendent of schools home that evening. She left. She was never seen alive again, and to date, her remains have not been found. We're talking with Payne about the excavation of sorts at a pecan orchard in Ben Hill County, not far from Osceola in the Fitzgerald area. So what about this guy, Duke, Ryan Alexander Dukes, friends, family, acquaintances, co-workers, anything

that we can find out about him? What do we know? What do you know? From everything I've gathered, people I've talked to who knew Ryan Alexander Duke, he was a quiet guy. He was kind of the guy who wasn't very remarkable, didn't really have many characteristics that stood out. He was kind of the guy who was behind the scenes and kind of just really under the radar in general. So most people were shocked when they learned about his possible involvement here. Very quiet guy, didn't seem very sophisticated or like he would have the skill set to do anything like this and keep a secret for 12 years. You know, the sister, Anita Gaddis, says the farm is one she's driven by hundreds of times while making trips from her home in Hawkinsville to Osceola,

that it is hard to imagine investigators are coming through dirt in search for her sister's remains. It's unreal. She's driven by it, you know, probably thousands of times now over the last 12 years. She says if given the chance, she would like to ask Duke one question. Why? Why Tara? Why did you pick Tara? Now, we were hypothesizing earlier, I started with this,

I was hypothesizing that he had possibly burgled her home, and she came in on him, and he ended up killing her the night of the cookout when she got home. But I'm thinking it through, and you notice any signs of dishevelment are in her bedroom. The clothes she wore to the cookout were at home. So she had changed clothes, I guess. She didn't have those clothes on. I don't know what she had on. But a lamp was askew, an alarm clock was on the floor from the bedside and broken. There were some beads on the floor. And one of the four posts on her bed seemed to be damaged. So it is apparent that the altercation took place in the bedroom, which makes me wonder, was there a sex attack?

Was that why he was there? Or was she in there changing clothes when she discovered him and they had a fight? It could go either way, Payne. It's hard to tell. If it was a burglary, why Tara's house? Did he know that there was something valuable in there? What was he doing in there? I mean, it's a very tiny house. And also, if she wasn't there when he got there, how did he get in? You would assume that Tara would lock her door if she got home and left. How did he get in? And there wasn't many signs of a break-in.

But like you said, there were several things about the inside of the house that were a little off that would lead you to believe that there could be a struggle inside the home. You know, this is making me think of home burglaries. And I want to thank our sponsor right now while it's on my mind. SimpliSafe home security systems make home security possible for everyone. Many people don't have home security because they think they can't afford it. That is not true. SimpliSafe is $14.99 a month.

When you go to SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy, you get another 10% off. The thing I like about it, in addition to it being easy to install, is that it is not wed to your landline or your cell phone line. If a perp cuts those lines, you're up the creek without a paddle. That's not a problem with SimpliSafe. It has its own cell attachment. That's one of the many without a paddle. That's not a problem with SimpliSafe. It has its own cell attachment. That's one of the many things I like. And the fact that home security is not just for the wealthy or privileged. It's for everybody. And I want to thank SimpliSafe for making this

podcast possible. Back to Payne. Payne Lindsey with Up and Vanished. Awesome podcast. He has dedicated himself to cracking the Tara Grinstead case. What about allegations that Ryan Alexander Duke had used meth, methamphetamines? I'm not sure where you heard that from, but I also heard a similar tale before from multiple people who knew them. From what I understand, there was a friend circle that Ryan Alexander Duke was a part of, and these guys kind of went downhill after high school and got involved with drinking and drugs and meth being one of them and their behavior kind of getting out of control. And I was told that by more than one person who used to hang out with these

guys and former friends of these people. Well, if you're a meth head, you'll do anything, you know, to get money in his book. And he looked horrible. He looked sweaty and deal.

It was bad, but I, I don't know that he was part of that world in 2005 when Tara went missing, so I can't blame it on drugs. And remember, of course, that's irrelevant under the law. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. So you can be a meth head and you're just as guilty of a murder as a nun, a priest, or a virgin that commits a murder. So there you go. Payne, what's going to happen next?

You know, so I hope that, you know, we get a conviction here. Obviously, there's going to be a series of court proceedings that follow this whole thing. Do you think it'll be a death penalty? You know, I think so. Unless they've worked out some sort of deal for a plea, I hope they don't. But I hope the death penalty is on the table. And I believe that in the state of Georgia, it's definitely likely that there's going to be a death penalty here. It's got to be an aggravating circumstance, and there are several.

In this case, I believe that they will seek the death penalty unless they decide to offer a deal of life without parole in exchange for the location of her remains, which, I don't know, it may be worth it to the family. I don't think I would do it, but the family wants it. Yeah, but this whole town's wanted to close it for so long, and the GBI has obviously felt the pressure to close this thing, so who knows what they may do. I would bend to the family's wishes. I wouldn't insist on it if I could make the family happy or give them,

though they're never going to be happy, but to give them some peace. They're never going to have closure. But they may get some comfort for being able to bury her, you know, with the rest of her family. Do you believe there may be another arrest? Because I think there may. I do. I can't say I do believe for 100% in my heart

that there is another person involved in this thing. I hope that there is an arrest coming for that person. But, you know, we don't know. You think another person was involved in the abduction or killing? I think someone else was involved in the covering up part of this. I think that, too. If not the killing or the kidnap, the hiding of the body or the knowing of where the body was hidden

and allowing it. Now, I could also see somebody being given immunity in exchange for their testimony. And that's what I'm afraid of. So they would be prosecuted. Yeah. Hey, you know what? If all they did was keep their yap shut,

I would rather give them immunity and find her body and seek the DP on him. That's the way I would handle that scenario. But if they can find the body without granting immunity, I'd prosecute them both and let them stew in the same pot. How about that? I 100% agree on that, for sure. This is Alan Duke with an editor's note. Since Nancy and Payne recorded this podcast, the GBI arrested a second person in Tara's death. He's 32-year-old Beau Dukes, no relation to Ryan

Duke. But according to an arrest warrant, he was his accomplice in concealing Grinstead's death by burning her corpse in a Ben Hill County pecan orchard in the days after her murder. Bo Dukes was an Irwin County high school student and a classmate of Ryan's. He's been released from jail on $15,000 bond. Payne, please join us again, everybody. I've got the Payne Lindsay from Up and Vanished who has dedicated years. Has it been years you've been

working on Up and Vanished? It's close to a year and a half now that I've been doing this case. I thought so. I thought it was going on two years. Dedicated to finding Tara Grinstead. May she rest in peace. And may her family find some peace after all this. Thank you again to SimpliSafe for sponsoring our podcast today, making home security affordable,

not just for the wealthy and privileged, but for everybody. Go to simplisafe.com slash Nancy Payne. Thank you so much. As always, I'm a huge fan. Absolutely. Thank you. As are so many, and I'm sure including Tara's family. Nancy Grace with Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend.

This is an iHeart Podcast.