Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tara Grinstead 'Up & Vanished': Podcast Investigation

Episode Date: January 18, 2017

"Up & Vanished" podcaster Payne Lindsey discusses his latest revelations about the Tara Grinstead case. The Georgia school teacher and former beauty queen disappeared in 2005, leaving a mystery that baffles investigators. It's a case that Nancy Grace has watched closely since soon after Grinstead was reported missing. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Tara Grinstead was a 30-year-old former beauty queen and local high school teacher living in the small town of Osceola, Georgia. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When I first started digging around in this case, back before I even released the first episode of the podcast, Marie started getting weird messages on Facebook from a fake account. The Nancy Grace Show aired a series of live interviews. Nancy interviewed Tara's neighbor, Joe Portier. During the interview, Joe revealed a very crucial piece of information.

Dates, times, people's names. I had to know it all. Mind you, I am not a podcaster and I'm definitely not an investigator. I was determined to tell Tara's story and most of all, I wanted to know what happened to her. She was the all-American beauty queen. She won the title of Miss Tifton. She competed in Miss Georgia. She used her pageant winnings to fund her education, getting her college degree, then going on for a master's degree, and then taking a position teaching history at Irwin County High School in the quiet and rural town of Osceola,

Georgia. Now, you would think that in Osceola, which is very rural, and what I mean by that is you're not close to a big interstate. It's a low population, hence a low crime rate. What could possibly go wrong? Well, that evening, something did go horribly wrong. After a school picnic, a barbecue of sorts, Tara Grinstead heads home, not far away at all, just a matter of miles, and she's never seen alive again. That was in, believe it or not, 2005, October 22, 2005. And beauty queen Tara Grinstead has never been seen again. I was so intrigued by the story. I traveled to Osceola to meet with Tara's mother. I went through her home.

For those of you joining us, let me say welcome to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me is a man who is very, very familiar with this story. It's not just a story for us. It's a case to be solved. And joining me is Payne Lindsey, who has done his own investigating on the case. Payne, the day Tara goes missing, let me say the night she goes missing, tell me your analysis of the timeline. Let's start with that, and then I'll tell you what I observed in her home. Sure.

So from my knowledge, Tara's day started with helping some of her younger students who were in a pageant that day get ready, get their hair and makeup done at her house. So started there in the morning around lunchtime, and after that, she made her way to the pageant and stayed there until around 7. Right. Where was the pageant? So the pageant was in Fitzgerald, which is about 15, 15 or so minutes from Osceola from her house. So it's one town over, but it's all part of the same sort of area, same county.

So that evening, the pageant girls were attending a pageant in Fitzgerald, which was about 15 minutes away. And so Tara goes to the pageant. Tara leaves the pageant. And around 745, 8, 815, she arrives at a friend's barbecue. And it was a small little get-together with some neighbors and some friends. And she stays there. Okay, back it up right there, Payne. Don't mean to interrupt, but I've got to narrow this down here. So you say a small barbecue. Wasn't the principal from her school there? That's correct. It was her house. It was his house. At his house. Now, is he married? He is, yes.

Does he have children? Were they there? He does have children. I believe that they were there. I think they were a lot younger. Okay. Who else was there besides the principal who was hosting the event, his wife, possibly his children? Who else was there? So of the people that I know for sure that were there, the only two that I can name with certainty would be her ex-boyfriend, Marcus Harper's parents. They were there. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You said the boyfriend. Now, is this the boyfriend that was former law enforcement? That's correct. And his parents were there? That's correct. Okay. Was that not a sticky situation with her and her ex there? You know, 10 years later, 11 years later, you know, it does seem a little odd. I mean, Marcus Harper, her ex-boyfriend was not there, but his parents were. Oh, okay.

I thought you said the boyfriend was there. No, no, no. His parents were there. Okay. All right. I guarantee you. Now, I'm speaking for them with no knowledge on this anyway, but I guarantee you she was, quote, the one that got away. Absolutely.

Because who couldn't help but love Tara Grinstead? You know, I'm sure his parents must have wanted those two to stay together. Well, that was not meant to be. Did she break up with him or did he break up with her? You know, it was a weird situation. It was an on and off thing for a while. They had a long relationship of about five years. Hey, no offense, but just answer the question. Who broke

up with who? I believe it was at first it was Tara and then they got back together and then Marcus broke up with her and sealed it and that was it. So Tara at that point wanted to get back with him. She was rejected and the tables turned on Tara. Do you see what I'm saying? I know what you're telling me is backed up by some of your own investigation, but I just find it hard to believe that anybody would break up with Tara Grinstead. She's beautiful, sweet, loving, a teacher. Everybody loved her. I don't get it. Okay. But you know what, what goes on in the minds of men? Now, you may think that that's irrelevant, but in my mind, who broke up with who is not irrelevant. And also, who says she wanted to get back with him and she was rejected?

Who told you that? Well, actually, I know that because I have some of her emails. And I mentioned them in the podcast, actually. It's called Up and Vanish but if you know if these emails are in fact 100% her writing which I believe that they are she is emailing Marcus Harper's mother begging for him back and I think it was just I think it was more of the idea that she was rejected for the first time ah yeah you know that hurts it absolutely for the first time. Ah, yeah. You know, that hurts. It absolutely does. The first time you're dumped, but you know what?

Looking back, you know, there's a country song. God's greatest gift is unanswered prayers. Okay. So when you get that first rejection, it really stings, but I'm pretty sure God has a plan. So he breaks up with her, according to you, and you discuss that on Up and Vanish. Is that the name of your podcast? Yes. Okay, so they break up.

But it's simmering. It's back and forth, back and forth. She's at this barbecue. Okay, pick it up there, Payne. So at the barbecue, she's there until about 11 o'clock p.m. Now, wait a minute. Is this a school night? This is on a Saturday night.

This is October 22nd. This is on a Saturday night. This is October 22nd. So this is a Saturday night. So stays at the barbecue until about 11 o'clock p.m., leaves the barbecue, and presumably goes home. But she's never seen again after she leaves the barbecue. How far away did Tara live from the barbecue? About a two-minute drive, about a seven-minute walk. Two-minute drive, seven-minute walk. And she was in her car, wasn't she?

That's correct. Now, there's been a lot of discussion. Was she run off the road? And again, this is not Miami. It's not San Francisco. This is not New York, Long Island, Philadelphia, Boston. There's not a whole lot of high-speed freeway chases in Osceola. Okay?

It's a two-lane. No. However, the problem with the two-lane is a lot of it is through densely wooded area. But it's a two where nobody would see what happened. But her car, as I recall, was found at her home. Is that right? That's correct. It was.

Now, what items of her... So I have always contended that she made it home that night. It was a two-minute drive, and that's where things went sideways. Now, of her belongings, keys, purse, and cell phone, what was still in her home, Payne? So inside was her cell phone on the charger but her keys and her purse were missing i just don't see her leaving that home without her cell phone yeah i don't either i don't see it if you're going to bring your purse and your keys you know that's kind of that's the third thing you usually grab if you're leaving the house it sounds to me and

maybe i'm projecting pain but when i come in first of all the children steal my chargers constantly for their iPads which I don't know what Santa had in his mind when he gave them iPads two years ago but I would never have condoned that now they run off with them like squirrels with a nut and when I come home and look for a charger forget about it but once I go for my my usual um hunt scavengers hunt one of the first things i do is plug everything up so it'll be ready when i need it so i just got maybe i'm projecting the idea that she comes in plugs in her cell phone she's been gone all day to the pageant rehearsal blah blah blah the barbecue she's been out of the home all day. She comes home, plugs it in, and then something

happens. Now, when I was in the home, Payne, and I was there with her mother, and we went through every room, room by room with a fine-tooth comb, nothing was out of place. Again, it was like a dollhouse that somebody had set up. And I say that only because it was very small, but it was beautifully decorated and appointed. There was no sign of a struggle. No windows were broken. The door hadn't been pried open. Nothing had been ransacked. Nothing.

So she takes her keys and her purse. She had, I think, to go with someone that knew her. So what do you think happens then? She's home. Did you say 11 o'clock? 11 o'clock. Yes. And the next day would be Sunday. Yep.

Now she was reported missing on what day? Monday morning. She didn't show up for school. She was a teacher and she no call, no showed. And her students were worried and they called the police and they went to her house. Now I'm a little perplexed by that because I would have thought she would have gone missing at church the next day or that her parents may have thought it odd that she was not in touch with them all day Sunday. And that was the thing. The alarm really wasn't raised until later on in the afternoon, evening time and so Tara's mother uh called a family friend who is a police officer from Perry to go drive and check on Tara so he drove there Sunday night knocked on her door no answer and put his business card in the door and left and went back home okay let's go through

that again okay so the mother does get concerned on Sunday when she doesn't hear from Tara. She does. Right? And she calls a friend in law enforcement in nearby Perry, Georgia, which is about the geographic middle of the state. Not exactly, but almost. Yes. So the former law enforcement from Perry drives then to Osceola.

Did the mother go there first? I assume that she did. No, she didn't. She just called this man, and he went by himself. He goes over, and what does he find? From my knowledge, all he found was that her car was in the driveway, but Tierra either wasn't in the house or she wasn't coming to the door, and he left his business card wedged in the front door to let him know to let

her know that he was there and then he left and went home okay so he goes he why does she call him who is he to this scenario you know if he used to date Tara back in high school I believe they had some sort of dating relationship but he was mainly just a family friend and somebody that her mother trusted so that's why she called him so So he comes over, he checks her home. Again, what time did the mother call him? This would be around, I believe, 10, 30, 11 o'clock at night. So this man didn't get to her house till around midnight, Sunday night, Monday morning. So at that point, she still wasn't called in missing, correct? That's correct.

The mother may have thought, okay, she's out for a night and didn't tell me. I'm not going to embarrass her. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. And so we get to Monday morning. Then what happens? So Monday morning, she doesn't show up for school. Students and teachers are worried. So the local police is called and they go to Tara's house.

And the next door neighbor actually had a key to the house, and he let the police officers in, and they found the business card, and they also found a latex glove in the front yard, just a stone throw away from her front door, actually just a few feet. Everyone, Payne's podcast is up and vanished, and it's dedicated to the disappearance of Tara Grinstead. I'm just telling you, by the looks of the inside of her home, which was immaculate, and the inside of her car, spotless, there's no way she would have allowed any kind of trash, including this latex glove, lay right by her front porch in the yard. Yeah. No way she would have allowed any kind of trash, including this latex glove, lay right by her front porch in the yard. Yeah. No way.

So I'm telling you that had to have been dropped during the kidnap. Yeah. Okay? It had to be. Yep. So what else do we know? So she's reported missing Monday at what time? Around 830 when she didn't show up for school in the morning.

Okay. what else do we know about the crime scene? So there's very little evidence really. You know, like you said, the house was pretty much immaculate. There wasn't really any signs of a struggle. You just had this random latex glove. Her keys and her purse are missing. You know, interestingly, her front door was locked shut and her car door was found unlocked. So somebody either, Terry either walked outside of her house willingly and locked her door or a kidnapper locked the door or came back and dropped her cell phone off or something like that and locked the door then. So local police immediately called the GBI feeling that something was very wrong. She didn't just take off for a long weekend. Also, it's a very small community. So word traveled quickly that she was gone. About, I guess it was Feb 2009, a video surfaced on the internet featuring a self-proclaimed serial killer called the Catch Me Killer.

And he suggested that he was responsible for her disappearance. What became of that? We're talking about 27-year-old Andrew Haley. What was that all about? Yeah, so at first it was pretty alarming. And, you know, it was the family was notified and the GBI got right on it and they took it very seriously. But after some further investigation, they traced the IP address and found out that it was just a man playing a prank. It was some sort of sick hoax that he was playing and he was eventually charged with that

and served time in prison for that. Let's talk about the latex glove. I'm sure that it was tested at the time, but when I say at the time, I'm talking about 2005. Since then, there have been major developments in touch DNA and mitochondrial DNA and Y-filer DNA, which Y-filer probably wouldn't apply to this because Y-filer is used to identify male DNA and a sea of female DNA. But hey, I'm just a trial lawyer. It may, a scientist would have to weigh in on that. My point is so many developments have been made in DNA and forensics. I'm just wondering if the GBI has retested it. What do we know about potential persons of interest? Did everybody submit to questioning, polygraphs, DNA tests? What do we know, Payne?

There were several polygraph tests, and the GBI also claims to have swabbed over 200 different people, in this case case for DNA. And there hasn't been a single match on the glove. Marcus Harper, the ex-boyfriend of Tara, did submit a polygraph test, but it was a private polygraph test. And the GBI does not accept those. Well, of course they don't, because here's the thinking about why law enforcement doesn't take private pollies. Number one, you don't know the conditions under which the polly was administered.

You're not really sure of the questions. For instance, if you ask the question, did you see the latest Harry Potter? That really has nothing to do with it, and the person's not going to get tripped up on the answer. They'll tell a truthful answer. You've got to know what the questions are. For all I know in a private poly, you could have the answers written out, and the person could just read them. Sure. You don't know what's going on in a private poly.

You don't know if the person took a sedative beforehand to alleviate rapid heart rate. No idea. That's why they are largely discounted. Now, what can you tell me about people that did or did not take a voluntary DNA test? And that is simply an oral swab. It's like getting a Q-tip and running it alongside the inside of your cheek. That's all that is. It's no big deal. For the most part, pretty much everybody, person of interest wise and close to the case, did submit a DNA sample. And the tough part about this is that in Georgia, the closed records law prevents me or you of digging into their files

and seeing who exactly these people really are. So I only know this from people that I've interviewed and talked to personally who have told me, yes, I have submitted a DNA sample or no, I have not. Now, has anyone told you they did not or they refused to take it? Yes. So of everyone that I've talked to, the only person that I know for sure didn't submit a DNA swab, at least voluntarily, would be Troy, the guy who had the barbecue that night. You mean the principal at the high school? That's correct. Refused to take a DNA test? That's what he told me. Why? I don't really know. I think it was just, he said he wasn't guilty, and he said that he didn't feel like he had to do that and that was sort of

his answer for all i know since then he may have taken it but when did he tell you he did not take it recently that was he told me that recently uh this year that would be back in 2005 and 2006 whenever the gbi was interviewing him and requesting that DNA sample. Now, the principal is not a suspect or a person of interest. I can tell you this, though, Payne, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sure. All right? You know, there have been a lot of incidents where police get DNA off a styrofoam cup, off a drinking glass, from a hairbrush, from actually a pizza crust.

They have successfully taken DNA from a pizza crust. Oh, yes, they have. It wasn't the easiest thing to do to set up the whole thing and maintain a proper chain of custody of the pizza crust, but it's been done. So people don't have to volunteer to give a DNA sample. You can get it in many, many ways. Hence, you look out your backyard and see the FBI digging through your trash. Okay.

That's one way to get it. So for all I know, they've got his DNA, whether he submitted to it or not. Where does the case stand now, Payne? So for the GBI, they seem pretty bent on the idea that the glove is without a doubt linked to terrorist kidnapper and or killer. And they believe that one day they'll get a match and that will solve this case. I don't feel that way. I feel that the glove itself could in fact be a plant or the DNA on the glove could just be a random person from a factory or a manufacturer. And that's why it doesn't match any person in this case.

I think solving this case hinges on the idea that somebody does know something, even if it's something small or minor, and they might not even know that what they know is very important but that we need to discover that and connect all the dots or collect the dots and then connect the dots and that's what we're trying to do right now pain do you really believe okay now two things number one when you say dna at the manufacturing plant where the latex glove was made that's entirely possible because I've relayed to you the story about JonBenet and her underwear and the DNA on her underwear that matches nobody. The detectives, I've been told, in that case actually went and bought girls' underwear at a department store and there was DNA on it already, which means that, you know, that it's got to be from the plant where someone touched it, handled it in some way.

Yep. No one has seen Tara Grinstead or heard from her since Saturday, October 22, 2005. A missing persons report was made October 24, 2005, 8.50 a.m. to Osceola Police Department by neighbors. Tara had not shown up from work that morning. Her parents could not reach her. The last known contact with her was Saturday night around 11 p.m. There is no known description of the clothing she was wearing when she disappeared. Her home locked, her car parked and unlocked, missing her purse and keys.

If you have information on Tara Grinstead, contact the-free 1-800-597-TIPS 1-800-597-8477 to tips at findterra.com. You can stay anonymous. Payne, I want to thank you for being with us. Absolutely. And more importantly, I want to thank you all for listening. If any of you can help solve the mystery of missing Tara Grinstead, please call those numbers. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.