Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tara Grinstead's best friend searches for answers in beauty queen's disappearance & murder

Episode Date: February 12, 2018

What happened to beauty queen Tara Grinstead, who was missing from a small Georgia town for a dozen years, is still a mystery even though two of the high school teacher's former students have been charged in connection to her death. Nancy Grace has been there from the beginning searching for answers. In this Crime Stories episode, Nancy talks to Tara's close friend Maria Woods Harber. They are joined by Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum and Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. She had the world at her feet. She had what so many people particularly women wish for she was literally a beauty queen beautiful on the outside and on the inside and she was a double threat she was brainy, on track to get her PhD. And then suddenly, out of the blue, she's gone. Nobody knows what happened. No body, no ransom note, no clues, no nothing. Just gone. And I will never forget as long as I live meeting her mother and her mom walked me through her home and it looked as I always say like a little jewelry box on the inside just absolutely perfect you know it reminded me a little bit of when I flipped through my fiancé's letters that he wrote me before he was murdered. And it's a dangerous place to go because sometimes you can't get back out of it.

But the longing in the mom's voice, the wistfulness was something I'll never forget. Of course, I'm talking about Tara Grinstead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We all know that Tara Grinstead, a high school teacher, goes to a cookout, like a barbecue pool type party with a lot of other teachers, the principal, people from the community in her small town of Osilla, not too far from where I grew up, where there's nothing but tall pine trees and soybean fields as far as the eye could see. She goes home that night and she's never seen again, dead or alive. Joining me right now, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of LA,

cold case investigator, director of the Cold Case Institute, Cheryl McCollum, crime stories reporter, John Limley, and special guest joining us is Tara Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbour. Maria, thank you for being with us along with all my other guests. When you talk about Tara Grinstead, what effect does that have on you? Well, it's just a lot of years of missing her and just remembering the good things that happened. And it's just been a lot of healing and trying to recover from what happened 12 years ago. But as you know, six or eight months ago, I guess, we had the biggest break ever. So it's been really an emotional roller coaster since then. You know, I'm still grieving for my dad and still, believe it or not, grieving for my fiance, which was so many years ago. And, you know, having the twins, I think, was the biggest blessing in my life.

Because up until then, I would really not let myself be happy. I would not be in love. I would not fully enjoy anything. I always felt guilty about being happy. And so I would bury myself in one murder case after the next, after the next. That's how I lived. I lived for putting bad guys behind bars. You remember those days, Cheryl McCollum, when you and I were in the trenches together? Nancy, not only do I remember those days, I can remember you spreading the files out.

And one of my strongest memories when I first met you is you would spread those files out and you would pray over the files. And that was one of those things that always resonated with me is how deep your conviction was. Well, you just made me have to take out my handkerchief. Oh, yeah. I also remember going in court

and some judges had then switched to not using a Bible to swear in the witnesses. So of course, you know, I always had my own with me. So I just whip it out and take it up there. You know, every time I talk to you, you bring up another memory, Cheryl McCollum, to Maria Woods Harbor. Maria, let's go back in your mind to then. The day that she went missing that night, what happened? Well, the last thing we knew is that she had gone to the pageant, which she had planned on going to the whole week.

She had helped the girls get ready for that, and then she'd gone to the pageant. After that, she went to a party. You know, no big deal. She was leaving, going home. Nobody thought anything out of the ordinary. She went home. What I thought, she probably got in the bed, and then, you know, so we didn't know anything after that.

No one talked to her or saw her after that. And she was supposed to come home the next day. So obviously we were, we knew something was going on when she didn't come home and we couldn't get her on the phone. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Back it up. Back it up. She wasn't at her home. When you say home, what do you mean by that? Okay. She, she lived in Osceola, which is a very small town, about 50 minutes from where she was originally home. So when I say home, I mean, Hawkinsville, because that's where we grew up. You know, that's where her mom lived. Yep.

Yep. She lived in Osceola. So the next day she was coming home to see her mom and me. And she, she did that often because she was very close to her mother, as you remember. So she was, she's very, you know know she watched over her mother even even though she was 50 miles away and um she was planning the whole week to come there on that sunday and bring her dog and when she didn't come you know we knew something was going on and her mother and i were were worried but it was a we thought well maybe know, there's just something to it. She is old enough to make her own decisions and go shopping some, you know,

one day or do something that she doesn't have to call and tell us. So we kind of brushed off maybe it was just something she had planned. You know, we didn't know. That night we definitely got more worried, and her mother was just beside herself in worry. And we just really didn't know what to do. I wish now we had called the police then. I mean, obviously, I wish we had done things differently.

But, you know, she was old enough to make her own decisions. And we just really thought there's no way something's wrong I mean you know there's just no way you know a lot of people don't understand it Maria but I remember on Cheryl again you were with me during this too when I first started practicing law you know I left my hometown of Macon and my parents lived we lived outside the city in a very rural farming area. And every weekend for the longest time, unless I was working on a trial for Monday. And oftentimes, even then, I would drive home to see my family. That's the way that we were raised. And that's what I wanted to do.

I didn't feel like I had to do it. I did it because I wanted to do. I didn't feel like I had to do it. I did it because I wanted to do it and spend the weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, get up, go to church, have lunch, pack up, go back to work. That's just the way a lot of people are. You know, your family's that important to you. And I get it.

You know, she doesn't come home as expected on Sunday and everybody's like, what, what's going on. But you don't want, she's a grown woman. You don't want to call her and go, why aren't you here? Yeah.

But you know what? There's that other thing. Dr. Bethany, uh, LA psycho analyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall.

It's that thing that I have to tell myself all the time with twins. Now don't get crazy. They're okay. Yeah. But see, that only lasts for about 20 seconds, because I immediately revert to when I knew something had happened to Keith. And I'm like, okay, it's going to be okay. But it wasn't okay. Right? It was not. And you have that feeling. What is that Bethany? Well, you know, Nancy, I remember that feeling when you covered this story because I was on those shows. And I remember you walking through Tara's house with her mother. And I do remember it looking like a little jewel box. Everything was just perfect.

And I was so new on the show at that time that I had the same thought you're talking about that, well, this is a beautiful young woman. Okay. So she didn't show up to visit her mother. Should we all really be that alarmed? You don't want to think that something really bad has happened. And I think it's maybe the same reason people don't report child abuse. They don't report runaways. They don't report crimes right away. They don't want to stir up a hornet's nest if nothing's wrong. They don't want to seem hysterical or like they're being drama queens. And yet then afterwards, they look back and they say, why didn't I make a bigger deal out of this? And then there's so much discrimination and self-doubt and really self-hatred that just goes on and on after that. So you try to think everything is okay, but somewhere in there,

there's that voice saying it's not okay. So that afternoon with me is Tara Grinshead's best friend, Maria Harbert. Maria, that afternoon you said she was at a, what, a pageant or prepping people for a pageant or what? She had helped Saturday. She was helping girls get ready. She was all into pageants, as you know. And so she was helping them get ready, you know, like jewelry, makeup. I mean, wait a minute. She was just gorgeous, tall. I mean, built like a brick house. She was statuesque. She really carried herself with a lot of poise. She always reminded me of a brunette, Grace Kelly. She was very, you know, she, I don't know if she was like that in real life, but she projected. She was real proper, you know.

Yeah, that's the way she projected, Maria, very proper. Absolutely. Yeah, she did. You're right. So that afternoon she was actually helping the girls at a pageant, and then she went. What was this grill out she went to that evening? It was with some of her coworkers.

You know, like I said, it's a very small town. So in the school, you know, think about the high school has about 300 kids in it. So it's a very, very small school with the faculty that's very tight knit. So it was a lot of faculty members, you know, just kind of at a cookout. It was, you know, just cooking out on a Saturday night. And so she was there. Was her principal there?

Was her principal there? I can't remember if the principal was there was her principal there was her principal there i can't remember if the principal was there i know um there's like assistant superintendent and you know some some bigger you know people in administration let me say that um and teachers and their wives and all and then she went home then she went home how do you know that well we don't know that that's the thing after she left that um that that cookout we really don't know what happened i mean it really comes down to speculation now i i know that at some point during the night or during the day she uh had been watching someone's dog. So she had taken them the dog. And I want to say that may have been how they established she had gotten to the house.

But either way, you know, her car was at home. How? Tell me about the dog and how they established that she made it to her home. I know her car was there all muddy. Right. Tell me about the dog. She was, like, taking care of someone's dog and it was somebody in the neighborhood, you know, as a younger boy, but she knew the family. And so she had met up with him to give him the dog back. Okay. At some point. Got i think i think a lot of it is just assumption

because you know her car was back at her home and um didn't they find the clothes that she was wearing that night yes well because we had a picture of her that night um which obviously that didn't come to a little later um because you know like this was 12 years ago so we didn't have cameras on phones and you know text messaging and all that kind of stuff so we didn't have immediately what she had on we just knew about what we thought so yeah we did end up finding out that she had come home and changed um and in her bedroom to me was very obvious that she had been in the bed because it was unmade. Um, and I know she wouldn't have had her room and made with her people in and out of her

house. Like she was going to have it very neat and clean. So she had gotten into the bed and, um, but we could, we never found her pocketbook. Her pocketbook was gone. Um, her phone was there, but her pocketbook. Her pocketbook was gone. Her phone was there, but her pocketbook was gone. So y'all expect her on Sunday. On Sunday, she doesn't show up.

Then what happened? Well, Monday morning, we were going to, her mother and I was just going to call school and, you know, check on her like that. Well, before I could even do that, they called me and said, she didn't show up. We're going in the house. So I left immediately and went down and met them at the house. And we went in and obviously couldn't find her. Wasn't, she was no trace. I mean, she was gone. What did they ask you? What type of questions did the police first ask you? Well, immediately they started thinking that she had just run off, you know, maybe she's shopping. Shopping? You know, it was just really kind of throat. Shopping? Yeah, I know. But wait, didn't she have to be at work on Monday morning? Oh yeah, oh yeah, and she would have never, you can't, when you're a school teacher, you can't just not show up. I mean, you know, you can't do that. Like, that's not going to happen, and that's she would have never. You can't. When you're a school teacher, you can't just not show up. I mean, you know, you can't do that.

Like, that's not going to happen. And that's what I told them. There's no way she would have just not gone to work. But I think, you know, I've said this several times. This is the best thing I can relate it to. About a week or two before that, there was a lady who was about to get married, and she ran away. And she called a few days later. Oh, I remember her. Jennifer, what was her name, Cheryl? The runaway bride. Yeah, I was just thinking about her the other day. I'll remember her name

in a minute. Go ahead. Oh, so some people thought that, but Tara wasn't. Yeah, so that was in their mind, you know, oh, maybe she's just not wanting to be here. You know, I'm like, no, that's not it. But immediately that's their, you know. She would have at least called in a sub. She would have at least called for a sub. I know. Oh, yeah.

You know. No. So then when did it hit you she really was gone? I mean, this whole idea that she would just leave and go shopping, that doesn't even make sense to me. It was gone. I mean, this whole idea that she would just leave and go shopping, that doesn't even make sense to me. It was ridiculous. I mean, they called around to see if there was any identified someone, you know, at the hospitals. You know, they checked that kind of thing, but, you know, for several hours, they were just convinced that she just didn't want to be here anymore because her pocketbook was gone, and phone was there let me ask you a question

um with me is Tara Grinstead's best friend Maria Woods Harbert Maria many people have let's just say capitalized on Tara's disappearance and investigated it and written about it. You know, a lot of investigation has gone on. What do you make of some of the theories out there that Tara Grinstead, and I just want to put it out there, I disagree with it, and it makes me extremely angry when people bring it up, very angry, because in my mind it's dragging the victim the dead victim who endured god knows what through the mud many people have speculated she was in some kind

of a sex relationship with her killers who we now believe to be two of her two former students at her high school um that she was in a state of mind that night where she wanted to walk on the wild side and ended up at some bonfire out in a pecan orchard and then things went sideways. Basically what they're saying is because she put herself in a bad situation. To me, that's a victim shaming. And there's no evidence of any of that whatsoever that I know of. Maybe somebody knows something. I don't know. But you're her best friend. Could you speak to what has been said about Tara since her death?

Well, you know, when it happened, she was just gone. I mean, we had nobody, no clues, nothing. And it was very, very upsetting. Well, you know, over the past 12 years, there's been a million theories about what she did and like you said, what she did to deserve this. And it's been 12 years of defending that. And you can't, you know, I had to take a lot of time away from it because it was just, I constantly try to defend her because there can't you know I I had to take a lot of time away from it because it was just I constantly try to defend her because there's you know it was just so silly some of the stuff was just so ridiculous but like what oh I mean it was like you know she had a conspiracy and that she

paid these people to come do this so she could get attention and um you know it was one so silly that you know we were we that I helped her plan this getaway and, you know, it was one so silly that, you know, we were, we, that I helped her plan this getaway. And, you know, and the reason they weren't finding her is because I was paying for my, my goodness, really every boyfriend she had from the time she was 15, 16 on up to when she was missing, I had to tell them everything about, and they had to, you know, search and they had to and and it was so it's been so bad in the past 12 years that anyone that was in her life has been drug through mud and everything it's just ridiculous what do you make of the theories

that have been put out there that the night she went missing she was in a state of mind that she wanted to go to some crazy alcohol-slash-drug-fueled bonfire out at a pecan orchard or something to that effect. I've never heard anything like it in my life. Well, it is silly, and it's really extremely stupid because, you know, first of all, I don't believe she would do that. She's just not like that. But even if she did, I mean, my, my thing is who cares? You know, the point is she's not here anymore. And, um, you know, I mean, that's just like saying if, if you go to a bar, you know, and you get, you know, taken or killed or whatever, then you deserve it. Cause you're at a bar, you know? I mean, it just doesn't make sense. I mean, do you really think she went out to some party with a bunch of kids in a pecan

orchard? I mean, that's the last thing I want to do at one o'clock in the morning is go out with some former students at a pecan orchard and watch them drink booze out of a keg. If you've got a brain, you'd understand that's ridiculous. A school teacher would be fired the next day, you know, because it would not be like you could keep that a secret. I mean, she would be fired. Like, why herself and her career in that position? Because she worked so hard. It's not like her parents paid for her college tuition. She worked to pay that. There's no way she would have thrown her career away for just a night like that. There's

just no way. It's stupid. Well, I'm telling you, I hear you. Cheryl and Dr. Bethany, even at the time I knew started on TV, I was still paying that monthly payment for my student loans to get through law school, $177.11. I wrote it every month for 10 years, I think it was. I can't even remember. In fact, I was so used to paying it, I actually wrote one check extra. They sent me a refund, and I kept it. I never cashed it for $177.11 to pay off my law school tuition for 10 years. John Limley, Crime Stories contributing reporter.

Maria Harbour mentioned a break. Finally, what is the break? Well, let's go back to 2008. The case received renewed attention at that time with a report on the CBS News show 48 Hours Mystery, which noted a similarity in the case to the disappearance of another young woman in Orlando, Florida. In connection with that news story, police at that time revealed that they had found DNA on a latex glove in the front yard, in Grinstead's front yard, just a stone's throw away from her front door. Now, in February 2009, some videos surfaced on the internet featuring a self-proclaimed serial killer who called himself the Catch Me Killer. The man in the videos details what he claims are 16 female victims that he has murdered. And one of these women he sort of hints at is Tara Grinstead.

Though the man's face and voice were digitally obscured, police eventually determined the videos were that of 27-year-old Andrew Haley. And a police investigation ultimately revealed the videos to be part of a bizarre, elaborate hoax, and Haley was ultimately eliminated as a suspect. Then in 2011, the chief GBI, that's the Georgia Bureau of Investigation investigators, said that the case had gone cold, adding that leads still come in on a weekly basis. Then on February 23rd, 2017, after a lengthy investigation, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced that they had received a tip, and this is the big break that Maria was talking about that led to the arrest of Ryan Alexander Duke for murder. About three years before Tara's disappearance, Ryan Duke had attended Irwin County High School, the same school where Grinstead was employed as a history teacher.

According to warrants read in court, Duke had burglarized Tara's home, and when discovered, he strangled her and removed her body from the house. Another arrest fairly quickly after this, on March 3rd, 2017, was made public in connection with Tara's disappearance. Bo Dukes, and this is Duke with an S on the end, and there's no relation between the Duke and the Dukes. Bow Dukes, a former classmate of Ryan Alexander Duke, was charged with attempting to conceal a death, hindering apprehension and tampering with evidence. At this time, Tara's sister, Anita Gaddis, said she had known Bo Duke's family for years, but had never connected him with any part of her sister's disappearance. Right now, the investigation goes on into a former student there at the high school where Tara Grinstead taught. And for years, police did not make the

connection, and there was really no reason to. I want to pause very quickly and thank not only our guests, Tara Grinstead's best friend, Maria Harbour, LA psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall, John Limley, crime stories reporter, and Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute. I want to thank our partner who is making our program today on Sirius XM 132 possible. It's LegalZoom. New Year's is over, and now it's time to write your own success story for 2018. And LegalZoom can help you with that. Let this be the year you finally launch and run your own business or rest easier knowing your family's

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LegalZoom, where life meets legal. LegalZoom.com. A crack in the case of missing beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Maria Harbor with us, Tara's best friend. Maria, these two guys, there's Bo Dukes and Ryan Dukes. Now, they're not related at all. I guess they knew each other from both living in the small town. But the alleged killer is Ryan Dukes.

And then you've got the friend, the hanger on, Bo Dukes. Do I have them right, John Limley? One has an S and one does not. Ryan Alexander Duke with no S and then Bo Dukes with an S. Yeah, my question is, Ryan Duke is the one suspected of actually killing her. Absolutely. And then you've got the Bo. All right, Maria Harbor, let's go back to the night she goes missing. How was her mother reacting? What was her mother's belief when she finds out Tara didn't show up for work on Monday? First of all, she didn't show up to church on Sunday, which is completely out of character.

But then on Monday, when she didn't show up to work, what happened? Her mother actually wanted to stay at her home in Hawkinsville by the phone because she knew that if Tara could get to her phone, she could call her. And she knew that she knew the number, and so she felt comfortable just waiting there. And I left and immediately obviously went to Othella and just kept her updated. But she was destroyed. I mean, she was a basket case. I mean, she was worried to death, as you can imagine, as a mother.

And she just knew it was completely out of character for her not to be in touch with her. What did you do? You said you went to Osceola, the and started looking where did you go what did you find out um we obviously went to the police station um and talked with them and you know i started calling people off her phone that i knew um you know i called i don't know how many people i called but i took and and called her um because at that time they didn't take the phone or anything i mean nothing was really bagged for evidence. I mean, nothing was off limits.

It wasn't like they taped off the crime scene from the very beginning. I mean, I walked around, you know, checked on the cat and dog. I mean, it wasn't like they wouldn't let us in there. I was in there with her phone, looking at her jewelry and stuff to see if anything was missing. So when we couldn't get anybody that had seen her or talked to her, and we got to the police station, things got a little more real, I guess, with them, and they called in the GBI for help. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Let me back it up just a moment. Alan Duke is joining me, my partner here on Sirius XM 132. Alan, a lot has been made that the police, the GBI dropped the ball. I don't necessarily know that that's true. What I'm hearing from Maria is it didn't seem like anyone, well, the authorities believed there was any foul play, but that the crime scene was just wide open. What do you know? Well, you know, it is a small town, and so they don't have a big homicide investigation unit, but they were quick, apparently, to call in the GBI. You got to realize the GBI did such a thorough investigation of this. This is historically the largest case file in Georgia history. Now, you and I have looked at so many missing women,

and the big frustration is the police don't immediately get on it and treat it as a serious, potentially criminal case. In this one, apparently they did a little bit quicker than we normally see. So it's hard to fault them, but it was a small town. I'm just trying to say I naturally am prone to defend the police from having them as witnesses and seeking justice with them for so long. To Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute, I'd like you to weigh in on this because they've really gotten a black eye on this. Hey, maybe it's deserved. Maybe it's not.

I just want to know the truth. What do you think, Cheryl McCollum? Well, Nancy, as soon as the sheriff was even called, he drove over to her home personally and walked around and didn't see any broken windows, no forced entry. And at this time, again, even her mom and best friend were not sure anything had happened. They just knew she wasn't calling them back. So, you know, they went into this correctly saying, okay, we're going to go check it out. And if there's no signs of any criminal activity, then we're going to drop back and see if she shows up on Monday.

When that did not happen, when she did not show up for school, everything changed in everybody's mind. And the GBI, I mean, again, to Alan's point, it is the largest case file in Georgia history, but they interviewed over a hundred people. They went to her colleges. They went to her school. They talked to past boyfriends. They talked to past students. So you're talking about somebody that, yes, is a beauty queen. She is gorgeous. She is also very bright. Well, what that means for police, when she goes on to that college campus for her master's and then for her sixth year, more people know her than she knows, if that makes sense to y'all. So, like, even me with my kids, they're all in sports and they're in different activities and music. More people

know me as Huck and Caroline's mom that I don't even know these people, but they know my children. So Terrell would get a lot of attention. A lot of people knew her. So the suspect pool, forget O'Sullivan being a small town. There were literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people they had to go through. They did a stellar job. And when you listen to them tell you tips were coming in weekly, this was never a case that was on the shelf ever. And you're talking about everybody from the sheriff in Tipton, Hawkinsville, Police, the GBI, Osceola. Everybody was working this case. Everybody. So I'm not sure that I go along with everyone tr everybody was working this case. Everybody.

So I'm not sure that I go along with everyone trashing the cops on this. Now, when we hear, as Maria has truly and accurately portrayed it, that the crime scene was wide open, people were walking in and out. At that time, I don't think that they, the police, and I may be talking out of school here, I don't think they really considered it to be a legitimate crime scene yet. They just knew she hadn't called home, right? And we're not about to.

Nancy, it was. Go ahead. Right. It was a welfare check. It wasn't a crime scene. So then what happens? You said you went, you checked her jewelry, Maria. You took care of the cat and dog.

What, if anything, did you notice? I did notice the lamp and the alarm clock that was underneath her bed. Her lamp that she used to just let her neighbors that were older and let them know that she was home and okay was broken and it wouldn't turn on. I didn't, but it was sitting up like it was fixed. So I don't even know how I remember seeing it that was broke, but I thought that was definitely odd because it would not work. And then her, like I said, her alarm clock was under her bed, still plugged up. I thought that was very strange. So that was the only two things that I saw that were even out of place at her home. And you're right.

I mean, it did not look like a crime scene like I would think, you know, or I thought it would look like if it was definitely a crime scene. I don't fault the police at all. I just, you know, I wish we had done things differently, and I'm sure they feel the same way too. I want to go to John Limley on this. What I understand was the evidence at her home, as Maria has pointed out, she saw a lamp askew. Now, to many people, that would not mean anything. But to Tara Grinstead and everybody on the program right now, if you come in to our house and you see a lamp turned over and crookedy, there's

something wrong. Okay. Cause I can't leave with that just laying there like that. I got to fix that. Okay. I'm sure that's some kind of OCD thing, right? Bethany, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining me out of LA. Well, I'm afraid I have the same problem, so I can't help you there, but, but absolutely. Go ahead. Well, the house was really spotless. I remember looking at it. Other than the lamp and the clock under the bed, it was really so well put together. And her life was put together. I mean, not only was she a beauty queen, but she mentored young women. And so there was this sense of goodwill in her life. You know, I think of my mythology about beauty pageants as women being backbiting and being envious of each other.

And that was not true of Tara Grinstead. She loved her students. She loved these young women she mentored. So there was a sense of her home being so wholesome and her life being so wholesome. It was hard to imagine that anything bad could have happened to her. So you noticed that immediately, but there were other clues, Cheryl McCollum. There wasn't there a broken necklace of pearls on the floor? And actually,

one of the bedposts were broken. One was broken, Cheryl. Right, absolutely. But the biggest piece of evidence to me should have been the latex glove outside. Once you have that, it should have been roped off and everybody should have been brought out of there. And then the second thing that resonated with me was in her car. Her car was parked, but the driver's seat was pushed all the way back. And Carol was small. I mean, she was not that tall, but the driver's seat was pushed all the way back. And Tara was small. I mean, she was not that tall, but she would have had her seat all the way back. So that, to me, was indicative that somebody else drove that car back.

And again, at that point, there could have been one person. It could have been two people. But you certainly, at that point, know that you have a crime scene. What about her car, Maria? Was it a white car? It was perfectly pristine. Oh, yes. It was a white 300. Yeah. She always kept it clean. She was very meticulous about her car and her home, but especially her car. And I will say that as soon as I saw the glove, they did pick it up and put it in a bag. Was it a latex glove like the doctors use, or was it a latex glove like you use to wash dishes? Oh, no, it was one like a doctor uses.

So to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute, what do police believe happened the evening Tara goes missing, and how did the case finally crack? Well, the case finally cracked because a lady came forward, a Brooke Sheridan, and she said that her boyfriend, Beau Duke, confessed to her that his friend, Ryan Duke, killed Tara, and they even knew where she was. And her body was recovered. And so that, you know, was pretty solidified at that point that, you know, Brooke knew what she was talking about and who was involved.

Now, when you say her body was recovered, there have been a lot of conflicting reports on that, Cheryl McCollum. Correct. One report says that she was actually set on fire and then buried. So, you know, that will have to come out. There are conflicting reports, but that will come out. But enough was put together, and the pieces were clear, that there had been two arrests made. So here's what, to me, the issue is that's going to really be a connecting of these puzzle pieces is that glove.

And the GBI did a brilliant job in that inside that latex glove, you had the possibility of two types of evidence, fingerprints and DNA. So what they did was they clipped off the tips of the fingertips of the glove to get the fingerprints. Then they swabbed the inside palm to get the DNA. So there's partial DNA and there's fingerprints. So it's either going to match Bo Duke or Ryan Duke, and there you go. What do we know, John Limley, about these two guys? One of them, Ryan Alexander Duke, was, as I had mentioned, he had attended Irwin County High School, the same high school where Tara was employed as a teacher.

And according to the warrants read in court, Duke had been quite familiar with Tara, had visited her on occasions. But this particular night, they state that Duke burglarized Grinstead's home. And when he discovered, they surmised that he strangled her and removed her body from the house. Now, in August 2017, this is following the February 23rd of 2017 arrest of Ryan Alexander Duke. In August of 2017, a grand jury filed four new charges against Bo Dukes, two counts of making false statements, one count of hindering apprehension of a criminal, and one count of concealing the death of another. These additional charges are based on a Wilcox County indictment stating that Bo Dukes lied to a GBI official who questioned him in 2016

concerning the disappearance of Tara. Back to Maria Harbor, Tara's best friend. Maria, when you learned that these guys had been arrested, how did you find out? What was your first thought? I had been told years and years ago that when they made an arrest, the GBI, it was something that was substantial. I mean, it would be a major break when there was an arrest. So immediately when I found out that morning, I knew it was big. But I was almost excited because I was happy. But, but then I knew, well, if that's what it is, and there's a restmate, you know, from murder, then there was absolutely no hope. You know? I mean,

I was just, I knew she was dead then. I know that sounds silly to some people because everybody said, well, she was, you know, we knew she was dead, but I didn't know. I mean, I was still holding out a little hope that maybe, you know, just something, I don't know what, but that was a definitive moment. So I guess I was anxious to find out, you know, thankful that they've gotten some closure, I guess, or some, you know, maybe we can get some justice. But at the same time, it was just going through all those emotions again. What do you know about these guys? Did she know them? Was she friends with them? Did she

mentor them? Or is she just a teacher in the school? Did they even take classes with her, Maria? Yeah, she did teach Ryan, I know for sure. And Bo is from a family that's known in Osceola. And like I said, Osceola is so small that it's not unlikely that you know everybody in the town. And the school is very small. So, you know, the kids, you teach them and you could even teach them one or two times in their high school career. So her knowing them was definitely, you know, a possibility. As a matter of fact, I think from the very beginning, I knew that, you know, it just felt like it was somebody that she knew because Osceola is very small and it would be hard for you not to know everyone there

and know their lifestyle enough to plan. Well, when you say you know everyone and know their lifestyle, what do we know about these two, Bo and Ryan Dukes? What I know, you know, just what I've been told, you know, that that's just by their friends and, you know, people that are that know them very well. It's just that they were obviously both on drugs and had had a rough, you know, a few years after high school. You know, I don't know as far as that. I don't know what she knew about them. I do believe she would have recognized Ryan if he, you know,

was breaking in her home or whatever. She would have recognized who it was. And, you know, my theory is that's why he killed her is because she would have recognized him. What do you believe? What have police led you to believe, Maria Harbor? But my theory is that's why he killed her is because she would have recognized him. What do you believe? What have police led you to believe, Maria Harbor? First of all, have they told you or anybody that you know of that they definitely have found a body?

No, not a body. I do believe there's been some substantial part of her or maybe something you know there i do believe that they have found something in the pecan orchard that they were searching um now i do i believe it was a body no i don't i think that um that they destroyed her you know for the most part back to dr bethany marshall psychoanalyst joining us out of LA. I mean, I would never have dreamed of going, first of all, approaching one of my teachers outside of school, in high school. I mean, if I were to even see them at the grocery store, the mall or something, I'd probably go, hey, there's Ms. Norman or whatever.

I probably wouldn't even say anything to them. But the thought of going to the home to burglarize the teacher's home. It's so strange. There's something about this story that still does not make sense to me. I think a lot of details are going to come out because my thought is that either these young men were fixated with her in some strange, pathological, romantic, sexual way and went to kill her, but then after the commission of the crime made up a story about burglarizing the house. Or, as Maria mentioned, that these young men were on drugs, maybe methamphetamine. And one of the things we

see with meth crimes is that there's always an overkill effect. So that, you know, a meth head might go in and try to steal something small in order to procure more drugs. But because of the nature of the crime and what that does to their mental states, the burglary, the crime, the aggression that goes into the crime is way out of proportion to the situation. So it's either like a stalking sex crime type of a situation, or very much of an overkill as a part of a burglary in order to procure drugs. I think it may have started as an overkill to Maria Harbor because they were breaking in to steal, and then she comes home from that party, Maria. Well, I feel like she was in the house and heard him,

heard Ryan in the house and got up and, you know, obviously called him like an act. And maybe this story is... Why do you say that? Well, I've been led to believe, you know, obviously called him like an act. And maybe this story is. Why do you say that? Well, I've been led to believe, you know, his story is similar to that. Now, you know, you know, maybe it's just in my mind because it's a less, I don't know if that's the word, less severe, less dramatic, less, you know, detailed way. But, you know, I'm sure what we're going by is what he says. He can say anything he wants to at this point, and we don't know.

I feel like it was mainly because, okay, I know this woman. I know she lives alone. I know she's single. She has a job. Maybe that was his way of finding, okay, that may be an easy target. That may be an easy robbery. And so he went in her home, you know, was going through her pocketbook, and she approached him. And just, you know, he saw no way out except to kill her.

What have you been led to believe? Have they given statements? It's more just, you know, invasive details, if that makes sense. No, what do you mean? Just like I've gotten, I guess what the thing is, is I've kind of gotten speculations and parts of, you know, obviously they can't tell you exactly what they said, but I've just been led to believe that that was what he said allegedly happened. But, you know, like I said, this is coming from him and what he's told other people. So he's not told me that. I've not talked to him.

I wish I could. But, you know, I think that that's pretty much what happened. But, like, there again, I mean, we're just going to have to go by what this killer said. And, you know, he's a murderer and killer. And so how do you really, you know, much what happened but like there again i mean we're just gonna have to go by what this killer said and you know he's a murder killer and so how do you really you know know what what happened so what you're led to believe is they she had gotten in bed to go to bed and then she realized they were in her house yes i um when i went in her her room her bed was unmade and like i said with people there at her home that night, she would have never had the bed unmade. So my theory from the very beginning was she got home, got in the bed, and then something made her get up and either leave on her own or, you know,

somebody took her. Now the kitchen in her house was very small, but there was nothing out of, you know, other than that that I saw like that was clear to the eye except for in her bedroom. So, you know, he hasn't said this and I haven't been told this, but, you know, my fear is that he, you know, took advantage of her sexually. Because that was her biggest fear. You know, when we were younger and even in our 20s, that was the biggest thing. You know, she was afraid that somebody would rape her.

And, you know, so I obviously pray that that did not happen. But, you know, I don't know. Well, how does a pecan orchard, how does a pecan orchard factor into this, Maria? Well, there's millions of pecan orchards in Osceola and the surrounding counties. I mean, that's a big crop in South Georgia. So we even searched millions of them. I mean, millions of them. And I don't even know how much land we searched, but lots and lots of pecan orchards.

But that was family land for Bo is what I've been told. So I guess Ryan took her there, and Bo supposedly met her, met him with her there, and they both took care of her body. But it was Bo's land. Nancy, if I could quickly interject, But it was Bo Dukes' land. media about a sweeping gag order that had been issued in the murder of Tara. Five days after Bo Duke's arrest, Irwin County Superior Court Judge Melanie Cross issued that gag order prohibiting prosecutors, defense attorneys, family of both the victim and defendant, and all law enforcement involved in the case from speaking to the media.

She narrowed that a bit to prosecutors, defense attorneys, and law enforcement associated with the case. We have been told her body has been burned. What she endured before her death or the mode of death, we do not know. And, of course, we've heard all these grand stories, Dr. Bethany Marshall, about the vast pecan orchards. And it brings into mind this huge estate. Well, let me tell you something, Dr. Bethany. My grandmother, Lucy, had a pecan orchard. Her house sat right in the middle of it and what that meant was that every day after school you know we would go out there and pick pecans and put them in plastic bags for her to sell them okay so it's not some you know multi-million dollar

operation it's like you're it's a hard scrabble way to make a living is what it can be. So I don't know how wealthy or influential these families were, but I know that they had lived in the town for a long time. It went back several generations. And that can factor into an investigation, Bethany. Well, yes. And I remember all the footage of the pecan orchards. I remember the pictures of the so-called party that went on and this huge bonfire and this idea that these vast orchards went on and on and there were hundreds of young people gathering and partying

and that somehow Tara Grinstead was a part of all this. And it made sort of the party aspect and the orchards and this big bacchanalia seem like larger than life, like that this party atmosphere had taken over the town, which is so different from what you're describing, which is families who have lived there for generations, a very small home that Maria is describing, everything very pristine, very neat. And the sad, sad tale of two young men on drugs who probably,

Nancy, they didn't go in to steal a big screen TV or thousands of dollars in cash. Sadly, they probably wanted like a clock or a $10 bill or something really small to fuel their drug habit. And then all of this came from that. And Nancy, as you know, it's really hard to kill somebody. It's not like it just happens as if by accident because somebody walks into the kitchen while you're taking the silverware. I mean, this was a heinous, heinous crime where something really horrible was perpetrated on Tara. And I think that's what we have to remember, that there was extraordinary suffering. And the suffering was for something so small. It was to fuel a drug habit. And I hope more details come out so we know what happened to her. But, you know, when Maria says that one of her worst fears was being raped, it makes me so

sad to think of, you know, possibly these fears being realized and, you know, what may have happened hours before her death. Such a beautiful young woman, mentoring other young women, having a wholesome life, turning her light on so her elderly neighbors knew that she got home at night. And then it all ended up like this. You know, Maria, it reminds me of so many cases I prosecuted where somebody would be killed, say over a $10 drug debt, over nothing, and then life is gone. When you hear that in those stark terms that Dr. Bethany Marshall just described, how does that make you feel? Your best friend, Tara Grinstead, likely raped and murdered, her body burned, her flesh burned and buried in a pecan orchard in the out in the middle of you know fields and fields and fields of orchards for what some money to buy

hit i mean it's very disheartening and um to be honest with you for the last 12 years it's been a constant battle trying to you know just get on with life and trying to go through, you know, life because she doesn't have one anymore. And she's not able to enjoy the things that, you know, she deserved to be able to enjoy. But I will say, through all that, I have prayed and prayed and prayed. And obviously, she was a Christian. And, and I do believe that, you know, once she left the body, you know, she never felt any of this other. I pray that you're right, Maria. Maria, do you feel that in any way you have gotten messages from her after her death? Yeah. Like, like what? Well, I've just felt her around and I've just

felt, you know, I've talked to her, you know, I talked to her when I pray and I've talked to her, you know, when I'm in the car by myself and I just feel like she's listening. I mean, she was such a good listener anyway, but it's just been over the years, I guess she's helped me through it. And she, you know, from the other side, and I just feel like that she is okay now. And, and, and I want to know, obviously my biggest fear was it was someone she knew, someone she knew hurt her. The last thought she had was this is somebody I thought loved me or knew me and they're taking my life. But I do believe that, you know, she didn't suffer as soon as it was apparent that she was not she was dead, that, you know, all the other does not matter. It does matter when it comes to the justice system and trying to, you know,

punish these people. But I'm just going to keep believing that, that she knew she was going to heaven and that was all she needed, you know? And at that point it didn't matter. You know, I, I, I tell myself that Maria, I tell myself that, but sometimes while I believe it's true, I find myself saying that so I don't have to confront over and over and over. Yeah. What victims lived through just before their death.

But I know this. It ain't over yet. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friends. This is an iHeart Podcast.