Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TAYLOR SWIFT CREEPY STALKER WON'T STOP

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

A 33-year-old Seattle man arrested three times in five days at or near Taylor Swift's New York apartment.  David Crowe's latest arrest came just two hours after he was in court for stalking her home.  Crowe first appeared at the McDonald's two blocks away from Swift's New York City townhouse. Then a witness says Crowe eased his way back down to Swift's building and was seen looking in a dumpster.  Then Crowe sat down on the loading dock a few doors down from Swift's apartment. Someone who recognized Crowe called 911. Police arrested Crowe on a criminal contempt charge, due to the fact an order of protection had just been issued during his arraignment on two counts of harassment and two counts of stalking. David Crowe has been in New York for at least the last few months. The New York Post reports prosecutors revealed that Crowe has staked out Taylor Swift's townhouse thirty  times in the past two months.  And his recent arrest spree began Saturday afternoon when police got a 911 call about a "disorderly person" trying to open the door to Taylor Swift's townhouse. This is not the first time Taylor Swift has dealt with a stalker.  Last summer, Westerly Rhode Island Police Chief Paul Gingerella said a woman who had previously been warned to stay away from Taylor Swift's home in Rhode Island was arrested outside the beachfront property.  A Florida man broke into Swift's home in New York City in 2018. He was sentenced to jail after pleading guilty to criminal contempt and attempted burglary. That was followed up in 2019 by an Iowa man who said he just wanted to meet the singer. He was arrested near her beachfront mansion carrying a crowbar and lock picks. A few months after that experience, a man from New Jersey was caught inside her home. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Troy Slaten – Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC; Twitter/X: @TroySlaten Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted “My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022” Paul Szych – Former Police Commander (Albuquerque, NM), APD Domestic Violence and Stalking Unit; Author: “Stop Him From KillingThem;” Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat Renee Williams - Executive Director, National Center for Victims of Crime; IG: CrimeVictimsOrg/FB: CrimeVictimsOrg/ X: CrimeVictimsOrg/LinkedIn: renee-williams-ncvc  Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter/X: @nicolepartin   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Everybody loves her. She's beautiful. She's incredibly talented. She's beautiful. She's incredibly talented. She's amazing. She's a hard worker. She's a wonderful daughter, a wonderful friend.

But her life is in danger. Does anybody not know the name Taylor Swift? You don't have to be a Swifty. You don't have to adore her like many of us do to understand that this woman has broken all barriers. She is amazing. So why can't we put her stalker behind bars and keep him there? This guy has been visiting Taylor Swift's home a shocking 30 times in the last two months. There are photos of him at the window peering in, skulking around her home, standing outside with flowers. He has a criminal history. He won't go away. As a matter of fact, he just got arrested for stalking her and within a couple of hours was back at her place stalking her.

What, will they not do anything until she's physically attacked, maimed, or worse? What do you think this guy has on his mind? Nothing good. I can tell you that much. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. And it's not just about Taylor Swift. Do you know how many domestic homicides I have prosecuted? Much

less the number of them I have investigated? How many calls I took on the battered women's hotline at night for nearly 10 years? I can't even count them all. Will authorities just not be happy until she's dead? And then everybody go oh wow we should have done something about it this is so awful but it does that where this have to end again thank you for being with us first of all take a listen to our friend sydney sumner david crowe is fixated on taylor swift he has been arrested three times in five days at or near Swift's New York apartment. This latest arrest comes just two hours after he was in court over his last arrest for stalking her home. Law enforcement sounding the alarm, telling TMZ that Crow is, quote,

aware of what he's doing and he's articulate. He is fixated on her and cannot keep away from where she lives. We are doing all we can to protect her. Okay, this woman, due to her job, really can't disappear. This guy knows where she is. He knows where she lives. The only way to protect her is to put him behind bars and leave him there. But instead, he keeps getting out of the revolving door that they call the local jail to go right back to her place like a homing pigeon to wait for her to do what when she shows up? Dr. Angela Arnold joining me. We're now psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Dr. Angie, what does that mean when someone is, quote, fixated on another?

Nancy, most times when people become fixated on someone else, they've got in their mind, there are several different reasons for them to become fixated. At the bottom of it all is a sense of control. Okay. And someone can become fixated with someone in order to, because they feel rejected by that person. They are seeking intimacy from that person. They're resentful of a breakup in a relationship. And, and last but not least, because they're a predator, because they're seeking power and control over that person. This is not the first time a celebrity has been stalked. And just think about it. If a celebrity like Taylor Swift can't stop a stalker, what about the rest of us, regular people, mere mortals?

What chance do we have if Taylor Swift can't stop her stalker? Well, what about Madonna? She couldn't stop one of her many, many stalkers either. Take a listen to Dave Mack Crime Online 13. Robert Dewey Hoskins was dangerous, highly psychotic, according to police. He had become fascinated with Madonna and told her assistant that he would either marry Madonna or slash her throat from ear to ear. In 1995, Hoskins climbed the fence at Madonna's 25,000-square-foot Hollywood Hills estate and was shot by her security guards. Madonna wasn't home at the time, but was frightened nonetheless.

Hoskins was convicted of threatening to kill Madonna and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Isn't it true, Dr. Angela Arnold, that the imagined relationship that a stalker has with his target, his love object victim, can evaporate and turn angry and ugly just as quickly as they believe they fell in love. Yes. And Nancy, therein lies the danger. Okay? So right now he's just digging through dumpsters, trying to gather something that might smell like her or look like her.

But it can quickly devolve into something that becomes extremely dangerous for the person who is being stalked. He's not just digging around trying to get Taylor Swift mementos. He's looking into her windows. He's trying to break in. He's standing around trying to give her flowers. He won't go away. He's gone to jail multiple times. The minute he gets out, he goes straight back to her place. Okay, what about TikTok sensation Ava Mejuri? Take a listen to Ava herself in Our Cut 29 and Dave Mack in 30. Hi, guys. I don't really know how to start this, so we're just going to go along with this one.

This is my first vlog or YouTube video. Give me, like, all the ideas in the comments. Yeah, I'm kind of taking you along with the journey. In early 2000, Ava notices a follower trying to get her attention, commenting on her TikTok videos and reaching out to her through social media apps, asking for photos, even paying kids she thought were friends for information about her. So Ava reaches out and tells him to stop going through other people. If he wants pictures, he can buy them directly from her. She didn't realize she just connected with a crazed stalker who ended up coming to her house, blew open the front door with a shotgun, and Ava's dad, who is a retired police officer, ended up having to shoot the man dead.

Just thinking about what this family goes through, a seeming admirer who keeps showing up finally breaks in to get to her, and her dad has to shoot him dead. That's not, of course, the first fatality linked to a celebrity stalker. The first time this phenomena rushed to the forefront was with the star of My Sister Sam, Rebecca Schaefer. Listen. Rebecca Schaefer was on a rocket ship to stardom in the 80s. She was on a hit TV show called My Sister Sam. She was getting auditions for big Hollywood movies, but she was still down to earth enough that she answered her own fan mail. Robert Bardo was a mentally ill young man from Arizona who became obsessed with Schaefer.

He becomes enraged when he sees her acting in a love scene. So with laser focus, he finds her home address and shows up at her door. Schaefer is expecting a script for Godfather 3, the audition she's been dreaming about. Instead of the script, it's Robert Bardo. He got her address through the DMV. And instead of getting a dream script, Millie Old Bardo shoots the starlet dead. Joining me in addition to Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, and as you heard earlier, Dr. Angela Arnold, Troy Slayton is joining us, high profile defense attorney out of L.A. at Slayton Lawyers. Jump in, Troy Slayton. I can't wait to hear what you're about

to say. Well, Nancy, unfortunately, New York has a very slow, progressive system with regard to stalking and harassment. So the law is inadequate in New York to protect celebrities like Taylor Swift from crazed fans or people who become obsessed with her. So when he's first arrested for just being around outside of her place, of course, he gets an order from the court, from the judge, to stay away from the location that he was arrested for contempt. And judges don't like it when you violate their orders. I don't even know what you're saying. All the blah, blah, blah, blah. The law says this and the law says that.

Will it take another incident like this? Take a listen to our cut 10. John Lennon became a legend as part of the Beatles, but a five-year hiatus from recording any music left him without a record contract in the fall of 1980 when he recorded his comeback album, Double Fantasy. The album was warmly received by fans and critics alike, but the return of the legend was short-lived.

On December 8, 1980, Beatle fan Mark David Chapman was standing outside the Dakota Hotel on the Upper West Side as John Lennon returned home from the recording studio with Yoko Ono. Without warning, Mark David Chapman opened fire, sending five hollow-point bullets into the back of John Lennon, ending his life. Paul Zeit with me, a former police commander specializing in domestic violence and the stalking unit. The author of, listen to this, Stop Him From Killing Them.

Paul Zyke, thank you for being with us. And just like you heard, and yes, he's a high profile defense attorney. Yes, he's a veteran trial lawyer. He referred to the perpetrator against Taylor Swift as just standing around. Well, that is what Chapman was doing. He was just standing around until he pulled a gun and then pulled the trigger. Well, the unfortunate reality is that law enforcement is really not prepared nationally. When I go around and teach on my book, I find this.

I find that it's viewed as intense harassment. The reality is that the vast majority of females that are murdered are killed by the man who's stalking them. And that alone requires 24-hour surveillance. Law enforcement's got to be on this guy 24-7. And if the violation or restraining order is the best thing they can do, every time they see him there, they arrest him repeatedly until he's kept. That's it. You know, I've represented so many stalking victims and in the majority of them, there is physical violence. Ultimately, there is physical violence. Joining me right now, a real expert in this field, Renee Williams, Executive Director, National Center for Victims of Crime.

Renee, thank you for being with us. Weigh in. Well, I think that you said it best when you were addressing the laws. Look, you can put every law in place. And saying that New York is lacking is just patently false. Across the state, we're lacking in laws for stalking, but it's not just putting it into laws. It is the enforcement of those laws, and it is the action of protecting the victim. Taylor Swift can't seem to be protected from this man. Can you imagine what it is like for an everyday person who does not have her resources and the attention that is constantly on her to protect her?

The everyday person that doesn't have those things who's being stalked. And when they go to the police, they're turned away. So so what do they do? What do they do? Just put up with it. Put up with fear every single day. Afraid to get out of your car. Afraid to walk in your door.

What do they do? Afraid you're going to look out and see this guy, David Crowe, 33 years old, staring at you through the window? That's exactly right. I have a very good friend who was stalked in the state of Pennsylvania, and it wasn't by, and the man wasn't doing anything that would be illegal necessarily, but he was clearly stalking her, and she had to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. And she's an attorney and she's a very good attorney.

And she was still at her wits end as well. She went to the police. There was nothing they could do because there weren't laws to back them up and they didn't have the expertise. This is reminding me not only of all the women, and yes, it's usually women that are the victims, that are stalked just relentlessly, typically ending in violence. You may know this woman I spoke with. You may know her from being on TV. She's a TV star. She starred in All My Children. But with all of her beauty and all of her accomplishments,

she was not immune to a stalker. Eva LaRue. Listen. This whole thing started in 2007 when I got the very first letter. But you're absolutely like that the only job that we have as parents is to keep our children safe and when that is is taken away from you by all counts and every day you don't know if you can keep your only child safe you you you feel like you've completely you completely completely failed it's one it It's one thing when stalking threats are coming to you that has its own terroristic fear that comes with it, you know, every day. But when it's aimed at your daughter, your baby girl, you know, because it all started happening when she's five,

now she's 20. The stalker not only threatened harm to her horrible horrible despicable crimes on her but to her little girl as well. Take a listen to Eva LaRue speaking to me cut 16. You know right out of the gate they were they were really horrifyingly deviant and and evil I mean, and they would even talk about satanic rituals and, you know, marrying us both and holding us hostage as sex slaves and impregnating my daughter.

And then in literally nightmarish detail, talk about how he was going to you know continually um rape and then disembowel and dismember my daughter in front of me and then do the same to me so it just it wouldn't and it would seem to always be um some variation on the thing rape and disbowel her daughter what who's jumping in? Is this you, Paul? It's Paul. Yes. And you know, that's a good point. My 30 years of being a cop and 10 years exclusively dedicated to mitigating stalkers, I can tell you that it's simply a matter of taking their word. When somebody says, I'm going to do that, I'm going to kill you, all the things that we just

heard, we need to just take it seriously, take them at their word and mitigate accordingly. We don't need to wait for the actions. They've thought about it. They've said it. We need to stop them before they do it. But systemically, that is what we fail to do repeatedly. And it's sickening. What I don't get is the fact that we can, this is a cliche, put people on the moon.

We can come up with all sorts of amazing developments digitally, all sorts of mechanical triumphs, but we can't control a stalker. I mean, some people would argue, Dr. Angela Arnold, the only way to stop a stalker is to just kill him. I guess you saw Fatal Attraction with Glenn Close, right? Definitely. Several times. She didn't stop stalking him until he was living in fear. His wife was living in fear. His family was in fear. She didn't stop until she was dead. Well, because Nancy, think about something. Stalkers aren't going to get better. They're not going to all of a sudden wake up one day and say, I don't think I'm going to stalk this person anymore. They're stalking the person for a purpose.

And they're getting some sort of, you know, I said before the show, stalker man that's doing this to her right now. He's going to listen to this show. He's loving the attention he's getting. Why? What does that mean? He's getting something out of the attention. That's why he keeps going back for more. Okay. Someone is noticing him and in his mind, this is, this is working for him. Okay. Because if he's getting noticed publicly, then that must mean that Taylor Swift is saying something about it. So in his mind, he's getting attention from Taylor Swift,

and that's what he wants. Take a listen to Eva LaRue. I thought immediately it was a real threat. I had no idea where he was, where the letter was coming from. I didn't know if he lived down the street. I didn't know if he lived down the street. I didn't know if he was already following me. I didn't know if he, I didn't know what he knew about me, like where I worked, where she went to school. We didn't know anything. And that was where the greatest fear was. And we were constantly looking over our shoulder.

We didn't know if he was going to show up on the doorstep at any moment. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To you, Nicole Parton, joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What do we know so far? I know this guy claims he's from Seattle but has no plans to go back home. He knows enough to lie to police. What more? Yeah, he was formerly a college student in Seattle, but we know that since November he has been there in Tribeca. Not just stalking Taylor Swift, but harassing her neighbors. One neighbor said she fears for her life. She can't even leave the home because this guy is pacing the doorsteps,

chain smoking. Several nights he slept on the doorsteps in front of their townhomes there. We know that he was trying to jiggle the doorknob and actually get in to Taylor Swift's home. So he's stalking her, but also at this point, the neighbors are afraid of him. They step outside, begins to question them. Where is Taylor? When is she coming back? On and on and on. Obviously, this guy is serious about what he's trying to do, and I agree with what's been said. He keeps coming back because the attention is working. This latest incident where he's in the dumpster, he was mumbling later to authorities and to reporters, I was just looking for my pants, as to somehow imply that he left his pants at Taylor Swift's home. Okay, I'm sure that would be news to Taylor Swift and her boyfriend, the football player. Guys, take a listen to Sidney Sumner in our cut

three. David Crowe is no longer some anonymous fan to people in Taylor Swift's neighborhood. Someone realized it was Crowe who was back sitting near the building on the loading dock and called 911. Police arrived and arrested Crowe on a criminal contempt charge due to the fact an order of protection had just been issued during his arraignment on two counts of harassment and two counts of stalking. So, Nicole Parton, he just gets out on two counts of harassment and stalking, four counts in all, and goes straight back to her place? Yes, within hours, within hours of walking out of court, he goes and he's seen smoking outside McDonald's a few blocks away. Next thing we know, he makes his way down to her home again, rummaging through things, getting blankets out of that dumpster and then sitting there on a loading dock.

And that's when neighbors, one neighbor specifically says, my heart dropped. I was afraid for my life. And so I called authorities back to let them know this man came right back down here. And more. Listen. When police get a 911 call from Taylor Swift's building about her stalker returning, police find David Crowe, who tells them he is from Seattle and is on his way to take a flight home. DMZ reports Crowe is from Seattle, but police find no evidence that Crowe has any plans for a trip home. David Crowe has been in New York for months. The New York Post reports prosecutors revealed that Crowe had stalked out Taylor Swift's townhouse 30 times in the past two months.

What makes things a little more scary is that Swift is actually in town this week and has been seen out with Brittany Mahomes and Cara Delevingne. No confirmation if Swift was home this time when Crowe was arrested. Did you catch that Troy Slayton? Troy Slayton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out of L.A.? He knew enough to lie to police that he was headed back home to Seattle. Well, that's not even the important part of the analysis, Nancy. Well, maybe not to you, but it's important to me that he's not crazy. He's not mentally disturbed. He's not homeless. He knows enough to go back to her place, wait, and then when found by police, lie to them to get out of it. Even if he goes back to Seattle, he's still going to have to come back to New York as ordered by the court to handle his criminal matters. And this is a very important lesson for all the listeners. If somebody is

engaging in a course of harassment, a course of conduct that would make you reasonably fear for your safety, you have to go in and get a civil order of protection. So that way, if the person comes within the protected zone around you, typically 100 yards, then that person can be picked up by police, even for doing something as innocuous as sitting on the loading dock. I understand where you're going. Go ahead, Paul. Yeah, Nancy, I understand what you're trying to say. And that is the guy's just not deranged. He's methodical. He knows what he's doing. He's evil and he's manipulative. He knows exactly what to tell those cops to get them to go away and just think that he's harmless. And that is that is the absolute scariest part of stalking offenders is they are the most diabolical group. Their their way. Criminalities on one side, evils on the other. And they've taken several steps towards evil. You know, one thing that struck me, Renee Williams,

when I was listening and speaking with Eva LaRue, the TV star, is that she said she never knew when just hanging around her place was going to turn into violence. That's exactly right. And one of the elements of stalking is fear. And I think for all victims, well, let's go back actually to all of the media coverage of Taylor Swift. We have stripped this woman of her privacy and dignity. And I'm looking at the New York Daily News article on

this. They posted a photo of her home and the cross street of her address. So now if anybody didn't know where she lived, they do now and they can stalk her. So we can, we've stripped this woman of her privacy, like we stripped many celebrities of their privacy. And then we expect them to not have fear. And we say, well, they've put themselves in the public spotlight, they should expect this. But that's fundamentally wrong. We're really stripping them of their dignity. I'm very curious if Taylor Swift or Madonna can't really stop a stalker, where does that leave the rest of us? Isn't it true to Unico Parton that he's actually tried to get into her home? He did. That was the first incident that

happened on Saturday. He was actually tugging at the door, twisting the doorknob, trying to get in to her apartment. Guys, you just heard it mentioned that her cross streets in New York were published in a picture. So everybody knows where she lives. Same thing happened to Eva. Listen, because we had, you know, we had a gate, you know, gate and hedge issue in and I had to I was at the city at getting a variance for these things. And the city leaked my address on the online camera, you know, on their online court camera. They said my address on the online court camera and immediately it was out. And then even the news cameras came like a couple of days later saying,

we see that you're trying to get a variance. And I was like, how is that news? But you all just found my address. And within about a week, the letters started coming directly to my house. So her stalker found her extremely determined. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Troy Slate, not to give away any information on your clients that you have represented, but once these obsessive males get fixated on a target, they are tenacious. They will not stop.

That's true, Nancy. And I even had a very personal experience. Back in the mid-'80s, I was a guest star on My Sister Sam with Rebecca Schaefer, who was killed just two years later by a stalker and helped prompt the legislation that was anti-stalking law that was a landmark in California. So but going back to your question, I've represented many people who were accused of stalking harassment. And the law is in many jurisdictions, inadequate. And many times because we live in such a free society, because it's not illegal to go around to go about when you say go around and go about what about trying to get into her home, testing the doors, trying to get in, looking in the windows? Isn't that peeping Tom or attempted burglary?

That's attempted burglary. That would be attempted burglary. Why isn't he charged with that? Is he Nicole Parton? Is he charged with peeping Tom? Is he charged with attempted burglary? He is not. No, he should be.

What about that, Troy Slayton? He should be. I agree. But Troy Slayton? He should be. I agree. But what evidence do we have of that? Eyewitnesses? Well, an eyewitness account doesn't sound like he's being charged with that. And all of the media accounts right now

are focused on the harassment and stalking charges. I mean, this is Time Magazine's person of the year. And the law seems powerless to stop a stalker that at any moment can erupt into violence. It's not her only stalker.

She's got a lot more to contend with. I mean, we're on the outside looking in and we think, oh, what a glamorous life, your beautiful clothes, your wonderful career, your awesome boyfriend. But this woman has multiple stalkers. Listen. Taylor Swift has a history of fans taking things too far.

A Florida man broke into Swift's home in New York City in 2018. He was sentenced to jail after pleading guilty to criminal contempt and attempted burglary. That was followed up in 2019 by an Iowa man who said he just wanted to meet the singer. He was arrested near her beachfront mansion carrying a crowbar and lockpicks. A few months after that experience, a man from New Jersey was caught inside her home. Police said a woman who had been warned to stay away from Taylor Swift's home in Rhode Island was arrested outside the beachfront property. WFSB reports the woman was discovered in front of the home despite previous warnings to stay away and subsequently arrested.

Paul Zyke, did you just hear the one guy was arrested in her home waiting for her to walk in and do what? Recite poetry? Hell no. He was going to either rape her or murder her or both. Absolutely. And that's the progression. It starts with a lot of reports. It starts with following. It starts with physical surveillance. And then it starts with them standing over you while you're in bed sleeping one fateful evening. The reality is if law enforcement had rolling surveillance on this guy 24 seven, they'd see him turning the doorknob. They see the other things that he's doing. Is he going to places and buying rope? Is he going to gun shops? Where does he go when he is not stalking her that now that's kind of be a mandate that's

kind of ridiculous no no police department has the resources to put 24-hour surveillance on every alleged stalker well i'm not saying they should i'm saying they should put him in jail and leave him there and i didn't say they should do it to every stalker, but use threat assessment to figure out those stalkers that are most likely to kill. And I have to say, in 10 years of actually doing this and mitigating over 1850 stalkers, that's exactly what you need. You need surveillance. And if it takes 24-7 to save a life, you better find the money to do it. There's no excuse. Guys, it escalates. I've seen it a million times.

It starts off with maybe love letters or flowers and surprise visits. Then it develops into anger when the female does not respond the way the stalker wants. I mean, here's a good example. Teresa Saldana. You'll remember her. She's a famous actress and starred in The Commish. Listen. Teresa Saldana's career had just taken off with a star-making part in Martin Scorsese's Raging Bull. Walking outside her West Hollywood apartment, she was approached by crazed stalker Arthur Jackson. Jackson asked Saldana if she was the famous actress she appeared to be.

When she said yes, Jackson attacked, stabbing her 10 times with a hunting knife. A passing delivery truck driver fought off her attacker and held him until cops arrived. Saldana spent three months in the hospital recovering from her injuries. Saldana survived the attack to win a golden glove for her work on the commission in the 90s and was an activist for the rest of her life. Arthur Jackson kept a diary where he had written the day of the attack he was on a divine mission to bring Saldana to eternity. Jackson was sentenced to 14 years in prison for the attack on Saldana. Dr. Angie Arnold, take her with him to eternity? Wow, I mean, Nancy, these people don't necessarily start off delusional, but when this is all that they're doing, so imagine this guy that's stalking Taylor Swift right now.

Nancy, he's not going to a job and then stalking Taylor Swift. This is taking up every minute of his day, it appears. And so he can become delusional and have thoughts that are not true about Taylor Swift. And so somehow he may start to believe, if I can't have her, no one can. And as I said previously, these feelings will intensify. He's not going to his psychiatrist and telling his psychiatrist his delusional thoughts about Taylor Swift. He's doing all of this inside of his own head. You know, Dr. Angie, speaking of a whole fantasy life, this guy doesn't see her as Taylor Swift and him as a freaky stalker.

He sees her as his soulmate. And they're going to be together through all eternity and it reminds me of another star i first heard of her on the voice but she went on to star in movies christina grimmie listen christina grimmie began singing covers of popular songs on her youtube channel and reached over four million fans she finished third on the tv show the voice and it just appeared in her first motion picture the The Matchbreaker. Christina Grimmie attracted the attention of Kevin Loible. Loible was infatuated with Grimmie and believed the pair would be together and get married,

until he was shown a picture of the singer with another man. Loible became enraged, and as Christina Grimmie was signing autographs after a concert in Orlando, Florida, a 27-year-old Loible approached Grimmie. She reached out to give him a hug. He pulled his Glock and shot her three times. Grimmie's brother jumped on Loible, but he broke free, backed against a wall, and shot himself to death. Christina Grimmie was just 22 years

old. I'm also wondering what can further set this guy off. We all, I mean, unless you've been living under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world, you know that Taylor Swift is dating a wildly successful football player, Travis Kelsey. Now, what is he going to do, the stalker, when he is made aware that Taylor Swift is in a love relationship with this successful, handsome football player? What's going to happen in his

mind? What about it, Dr. Angie? Well, in his mind, Nancy, I imagine he may want to kill both of them. Nancy, this story is so scary and it is fraught with so much danger that I truly don't believe most people understand the level of danger that she's in right now. I agree with that. Is that psych? Yes, it is. And I totally agree with that. It's literally like everyone is standing around until she's murdered. And then the next time it happens, we'll all do the same thing again. And when I say we all, the law enforcement community, they're not trained. Cops are just not trained for this. They're not trained for what you might do, what you think you'll do. They're trained to statutorily enforce laws. And that's where advanced training on this

topic needs to be enacted. I don't know that we have time for the New York Assembly up in Albany to move their errands and do something. What could happen right now? And anybody on the panel, if you disagree, jump in and give me a better idea. He could be indicted for a felony like attempted burglary. Of course, peeping Tom, that's not a felony. But is that a way to put him behind bars? We all know that in the recent hours Taylor Swift AI, artificial intelligence, porn has emerged. Somebody has taken Taylor Swift's likeness and created a bot, a fake Taylor Swift engaging in porn.

Another thing for her to think about. But I'm just wondering, Renee Williams, you have so much experience dealing with stalkers and prosecuting them. If this guy, David Crowe, were to see that, it could be so incendiary that he may react. It can be devastating. And even without him seeing it, it's devastating to her. And there's a lot of fury over that right now. I wish that the fury was there for the children that AI bots are being made of.

You know, this is a problem that we are fully aware of in the crime victim field, and it's fighting an uphill battle. There are a handful of states that have made it illegal to use AI in pornography. But but it still happens, obviously, and it's out there. Yeah, this is a deep fake porn website, and I hope that she sues them. But you know what they'll do? I learned this working at the Federal Trade Commission. They'll just close down under that name and pop up. It's like whack-a-mole.

They'll pop up under another name. But yes, I agree with you completely. But right now, Troy Slayton, you never know what is going to set a stalker off. I mean, is it going to be a picture of Taylor Swift on the front page of the New York Post with her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey? Is he going to see that and go kill her? Is he going to think that Taylor Swift somehow is in porn, which is actually created by some AI porn site. I don't know what could push this guy over the edge and make him retaliate against her. He obviously thinks they have a relationship. By definition, you can't predict crazy.

And the photos of this guy definitely have crazy eyes. Oh, wait, you, the jurors doctorate, the lawyer, you're now diagnosing him as crazy because of a picture you saw. OK, look, he knew enough to lie to cops. He knows enough to get back to her place. He knows exactly what's going on and what he's doing. He's not crazy. He's a stalker. But now all eyes are on him.

And Taylor Swift has the resources to protect herself. I'm not worried about her safety. That's what John Lennon thought and my sister Sam and Eva LaRue. That's what they all thought. Madonna thought that they had to shoot her stalker down, shoot him to make him leave her alone. He went to jail for 10 years. She's probably out by now or about to get out to go stalk her again. So we think, oh, wow, she's famous. She's got all these resources. You know, those stars weren't able to stop their stalker. The only way the stalker is going to be stopped is to either kill him or put him behind bars and keep him there.

Are you listening, New York? Nancy, we've gotten word that David Crowe is back behind bars for violating his court order to stay away from Swift's Tribeca townhouse. According to prosecutors, Crowe's actions made it clear he was unable to obey a court order. Crowe was arraigned on a charge of second degree criminal contempt. He has also been ordered to undergo a psychiatric exam. That was requested by his defense lawyer. Crow was remanded to Rikers Island. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend.

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