Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teachers gone wild: Tad Cummins & Mary Kay Letourneau updates

Episode Date: May 31, 2017

Ex-Tennessee teacher Tad Cummins pled not guilty to federal charges relating to his 7-week-long cross-country trip with a 15-year-old teacher. His defense is that Elizabeth Thomas ran away with him voluntarily. In this episode, Nancy Grace and Alan Duke look at the latest in this case and news that Mary Kay Letourneau has split from the student she married after spending 7 years in prison for her illicit relationship with the 6th grader. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Elizabeth Thomas is being welcomed home to Columbia, Tennessee, with signs and banners. Her family says she is comfortable and resting, but has suffered severe emotional trauma. I'm just so overjoyed to have her home, that she's safe. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The 15-year-old and her former teacher were found more than 2,000 miles away in a remote cabin in Northern California with no electricity or running water. They said they were from Colorado, and he said he had a house fire.

He pulled me aside at one point and made a statement that he was glad that this was all over. His sister says he doesn't believe he kidnapped Elizabeth. I asked him why. Why would he do this? And the answer he gave me is that she wanted to run away and she wanted to leave. And he didn't want her to go alone, so he went with her so that he could know that she was safe. The very latest regarding the Tennessee teacher, 50-year-old Tad Cummins, who goes on the run with a little student of his, has gone into federal court and pled not guilty.

He's pleading in federal court to charges of transporting a minor across state lines for the purposes of sex activity and one charge of obstruction to justice. Now, on those charges, the federal charges, he's looking at 10 years minimum if he is convicted. Remember, Tad Cummins, the pervy high school teacher that wants to be the, quote, savior of his teen girl student who's having trouble at home and at school. It's her first entry into public school after being homeschooled, and her mother has been charged with abusing her and the other children.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The pair dyed their hair on the run and they were ultimately found hiding out in a cabin near a commune in northern california his lawyers arguing in a preliminary hearing that the girl went with him willingly now let's see alan. Alan, the Duke. Duke is joining me. Alan, to the charges that he transported a minor across state lines, an obstruction of justice, the fact that she went with him willingly, even if it's true, and I'm not agreeing that it was, that it is true. But even so, that will not be a defense to carrying her across state lines for sex or for obstruction of justice. So his lawyer, this is completely an unfounded legal defense.

It's got to be, to these charges anyway, it's got to be a defense that he did not carry her across state lines perhaps they're saying that maybe she was driving the car are they gonna allege that why not well i was just about to say as whack as it sounds their best shot on that charge would be that she drove the car boo i don't know that that would work maybe they could say well she convinced him and she carried him across state lines as bizarre as that is every indication we have is that she is or thinks she's in love with him whether that's changed in the last couple of days or not at the time she seemed to want to be with him that much seems to be true i believe she thought it was a grand lark. And when she grows up and looks back on this, she's going to be mortified, mortified.

But sometimes when you're 15 years old or even 13 years old, you fall in love. And maybe it is with your teacher. It does last a while. Eventually you outgrow them. I don't know. What are you talking about? You fall in love with your teacher and it does last a while. Eventually, you outgrow them. I don't know. What are you talking about? You fall in love with your teacher, and it lasts a while. Well, there is the case of Mary Kay Letourneau.

Oh, you mean the woman that did jail time, I think about seven years, that case? This kid waited for her. She did a hard time. They came back, and they got married, and it was a love story for the ages until well you tell it was statutory rape is what it was but back to tad cummings and i'll touch on mary kayla turning who p.s she and the young boy she married i'm doing air quotas have just split up right tad cummins is who i'm trying to talk about let's get alan duke back in the middle of Right. is the legal defense of she went willingly. We have a statutory rape charge on the books in every state in this union,

in one form or the other, because the law presumes children cannot agree to anything. That's why children can't buy a car, because they go wreck it, and then you can't enforce the contract in court. A minor cannot buy a car. A minor can't buy a house. A minor cannot enter into a servitude contract,

such as an employment contract. Oh, my goodness. I mean, that could just go on and on and on. Well, I'm thinking, though. How can they agree to go off and have sex in a commune on a dirty mattress on the floor for five weeks? They can't. My grandmother was 15 when she

got married and why there was nothing wrong with that. Okay. Think about it. Is this a new modern thing that a 15 year old is not old enough to get married? Because it's been happening for many, many years. Okay. A, they didn't get married. number one. Well, they wanted to, I'm sure. Well, he's already married to start with. Well, there's that. Yeah. So they could not legally get married. And as I recall from my research, in the U.S., there are only a handful of states, 10 or less, I believe, that allow teen marriage and there are certain

circumstances, for instance, if the girl is pregnant or if the parents consent or there's already an existing child in the union, there are some very strict limitations as to when somebody can get married. And I believe Delaware and one other state have guidelines that could maybe allow this marriage, but that didn't happen. They're not married for many different legal reasons. So bringing that up, Alan, is just... Well, I'm just saying that my grandparents and... Yeah, well, they're not involved in this my grandparents and yeah well they're not involved in this alan no they're not but why why all of a sudden it's not about your 15 year old grandmother 110 years ago why all of a sudden in this modern age we live in do they change the rules when

before if you go back you need to go back years. You need to go live in a country where they have child brides. I don't want a child bride. I will pack you up. Look, my wife is no child. I don't want that. That's not for me personally. But what I'm saying. Well, you're advocating it.

I'm just saying. I asked the question. Why did this change? It used to be perfectly fine. Because women and children need to be protected from others in our society more powerful or cunning than they are i mean just off the top of my head so you're saying my grandmother wasn't protected you're saying my grandmother wasn't protected that's what i'm saying that she should have waited wow i wouldn't my mom wouldn't be here i wouldn't be here if it wasn't

for a 15 year old being able to. There are silver linings to everything, Alan. I mean, I don't even know. My father's mother got married when she was 14. So, you know, there. Do I think it's right? No. But did they stay married their entire life? Yes.

Yes. Yes. They stayed married for 60-plus years. So, okay. That doesn't mean it's okay. Just because that's the way it has been does not mean that's the way it should be. Can we quit talking about your grandmother who's not a party to this? We're talking about Tad Cummings, a 50-year-old perv who lies to his wife and says some BS about,

don't call the cops, I'm going to D.C. to clear my head. Hey, clue to you ladies, when your husband, boyfriend, lover says, I've got to go think, I need to be alone, let him go and immediately change the locks. Think, think about what? Think about the fact they've been married since the 80s and they've got children and grandchildren together.

That's what he needs to think about. Now where are you? Now you're nowhere. All you want to do is advocate child marriage. No. I think I hear you slurping something. It's called coffee and it's an essential

thing when you're on the east coast and I'm on the west coast. It gets my brain going. He faces 10 years to life behind bars and these are just the federal charges. I just think a lot about his wife Jill. Of course I think about the girl Elizabeth but I think about his wife devoting her whole life to this pervy dude. 38 days after their disappearance, he did not call her or contact his wife in any way. They were found hiding out in a cabin near Cecilville in Northern California. Now, here's the kicker. They tried to go to this commune,

closed, optional commune, and even those people kicked them out. They knew something was way wrong with this. And I'm not judging them. I say live and let live as long as you're not committing a felony. Have at it. But even they didn't want the nonconformists, the anti-rules. When you go to one of these clothing optional communities

and you don't really know the protocol, you don't know the rules, it's a little odd, you don't fit in, you do things that aren't acceptable. But those communities, they have their rules. You mean like statutory rape? Yeah. Well, yeah, they don't allow that. Most of the ones I'm familiar with don't. I'm sure you're so familiar with them, Alan. There's one in North Georgia you know that.

Have you ever been to that? The one in North Georgia up near Dahlonega? Alan, no, I have not. Since Cummings' arrest, investigators reveal they believe he bought a $1,500 kayak and planned to paddle from San Diego to Mexico with Elizabeth in the kayak. I mean, this sounds like some crazy made-for-TV movie. A kayak, to go to Mexico in a kayak from San Diego. I was in San Diego last week, and I was thinking about that. I was thinking, I'm experienced in a kayak from San Diego. I was in San Diego last week and I was thinking about that. I was

saying, I'm experienced in a kayak. I've gone through jungles in a kayak. I would never, ever think about going into the actual Pacific Ocean in a kayak beyond the beach. That's crazy. You know, we kept talking about when he went missing, could he be tracked on his GPS? And I did a ton of research regarding Sirius Radio and how there are certain ways you can be tracked through Sirius Radio. Now, Sirius Radio does not really want to hand over that information. So they make the feds and the law and police go through the hoops, a warrant, quite a few legal hoops. But there is through Sirius and there is through, I want to say, is it Northstar? Is that the name of the other tracking device? OnStar.

OnStar, thank you. And you can actually track, and there's a locator feature to Sirius Radio. And there's even more because these cars are getting so smart now. His was several years old in 2015. Now they're saying he disabled the GPS. Yes. So it did have GPS because you and I kept going round and round about why he couldn't be tracked. He threw both of their cell phones in a river, disabled the GPS, and took on aliases while on the run. I mean, that is planning.

That is for sure planning, which makes it worse. I'm going to pause and thank our awesome sponsor, our partner in today's podcast. And I'll start with a story out of Racine, Wisconsin. A house catches on fire at nobody's home. It took a while for neighbors to even notice. But at the end of the day, there were $40,000 damages. Priceless items gone. If you're not home when a fire starts, who will be there to save your house, your belongings, your home? For SimpliSafe home

security user Tricia, SimpliSafe was there. She was on vacation. Her home caught fire, but with SimpliSafe, her smoke alarm went off, the fire department was alerted immediately, and they arrived in time to save Trisha's home. SimpliSafe has round-the-clock professional security monitoring, and it's just $14.99 a month. Round-the-clock, 24-7, 365 monitoring. Now that is peace of mind. Get 24-7 connection to dispatch, lightning-fast response time in emergencies with SimpliSafe Home Security. Order today and you get a special 10% discount. SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy. SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy for the 10% off your home security system. Now let's get back to our podcast. She is refusing to go back to her family. I don't know that that's true, but reports are

saying that, but I think she is with her family, but she is insisting she is in love with Cummings. Oh, his lawyers are arguing at no time did she ever say she was taken against her will. Again, under the law, that doesn't matter. Children cannot buy cigarettes. They can't buy alcohol. They can't enter into a binding contract because we are protecting them from themselves. So she couldn't enter into that, Alan. Okay, let's hear your next zany defense. I'm braced. I'm not going to defend him. I'm going to say, keep in mind, these are just the federal charges. Our friends down there in Tennessee have a whole set of charges that they're going to pursue as soon as they get him from the feds. And what do those include?

I think they should prosecute him for being a teacher messing around with a student that's the big offense to me you got to protect students from teachers and right now the feds got him first they got the first shot at it they do that the feds take over so right now this is what we know in federal court tad cummins pleads guilty. No word from the wife. Do you know any, I know she's filed for divorce. Do we know anything else? I mean, is she going to testify against him? I don't know why she wouldn't because she's been cooperating from the very beginning. And if they need her at a trial, do we really think this is going to a trial?

I mean, if he pleads not guilty, then it will go to trial. Well, he's pleading not guilty now to preserve his rights, which I'm sure his defense lawyer has advised him to. I know you want everybody just immediately roll over, play dead, go to prison. Yeah. But he's just going through the process. And by the way, I think he's got another hearing tomorrow. Yeah, I think eventually there's going to be some kind of a plea deal on here because how can they defend against this? They've got the goods on him. I think eventually there's going to be some kind of a plea deal on here, because how can they defend against this? They've got the goods on him. I think what will be the star witness will be Elizabeth Thomas.

Well, his wife, the wife of the former Tennessee teacher charged with running off with a 15-year-old girl, says she knew the answer but asked anyway. Quote, I said, well, did you sleep with her? Jill Cummings said in an interview, and this was an interview with Inside Edition, Jill says that he, Tad Cummings, said, yes, I did. I didn't ask for any details, she says, but I knew the truth. I just wanted to hear it from him to me. And then I told him I would not be answering the phone anymore. You know, that had to break this woman's heart. I'm just sick about everything he has done.

He continued to contact her over and over by phone. She went into a rage at one of the last times he called her, asking, do you know what you've done to me and the children and the grandchildren? And he just kept saying over and over, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. She says, this girl is a child. You're a 50-year-old man. She didn't have a choice whether to go or not. And he said, and I think this is very telling, she did have a choice.

That's why I was leading up to, she did have a choice. So that's going to be his defense. There it is right there. Do you want to talk about the latest news on Mary Kay Letourneau? Are we going to talk about that? Sure. Because you see, this is what happens 20 years later. Now, you put yourself in Elizabeth Thomas's shoes. And yes, she's 15.

And she thinks that this guy's James Bond 007 reincarnated and that he's just the coolest thing on earth is Tad Cummins you and I both look back and we know better but in the Mary Kay Letourneau situation that was 1996 she was 34 years old she had four kids and she had this affair with a 13 year old student and she went to prison for it but the shocking thing to me was seven years later when she gets out they get married that doesn't make it okay no the it's in some people's eyes it probably did because at that time he was 20 and she was 41 but the latest news is now it's confirmed they're splitting up yep mary kay letourneau and villi falau have split the teacher who spent seven years behind bars for sleeping with a student then 12 sixth grade and having two children is single because the boy Billy Folau was not a boy anymore

files for legal separation this month now she was as you said correctly she was 34 years old a married mom of four when she started having sex with this boy in her car, got pregnant with the first daughter, Audrey, when Falau was just 13 years old, gave birth, and pled guilty. The six-month sentence was commuted to just three months under the condition she doesn't contact the boy anymore. But then within just a couple of weeks, they were back in the car going at it.

Pregnant again. I mean, really? anymore but then within just a couple of weeks they were back in the car going at it pregnant again i mean really so there you have it and that's how that whole thing went down she had just waited for i guess three more years that could have been together right and in 2005 she got out of prison and they did get back together, and they became a family. But now this is interesting. He is her age when she was his teacher. He's now, well, he's about 34, maybe a few months shy. And he does not want to be with her anymore.

They've been married for 12 years. Here she is, what, 51 what 51 no she's 54 did you know that the two of them would host reportedly quote hot for teacher nights at a local bar for several years after they married you got to make money some way when you're when you're on off your infamy i guess that's what they were doing because you couldn't teach anymore. Okay. So I guess you're trying to say in some weird perverted way that because they got married and are now getting a divorce, that the Tad Cummings relationship, which I call statutory rape with Elizabeth is okay because Mary Kay Letourneau conned this kid into marrying her. I'm not saying it is okay.

I'm just saying that it's not unusual. That is putting perfume on the pig. And that it could be in the category of, you know, a lot of people when they're 15 think they're in love. And they stay in love for a while and eventually maybe fall out. But she's 55. Mary Kay is 55 now. You know, they could use you in the fdls please warren jeffs you got the warren jeffs approach i take my wives one at a time one at a time okay good to know i will file that away in info and again if you're not there when a fire starts, who will be there to save your home?

With SimpliSafe Home Security, your smoke detectors immediately alert emergency services at the first sign of a fire. Get 10% off your system today at SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy. That's SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy. Alan Duke, Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.