Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TEEN BALLERINA MOWED DOWN BY MYSTERY BOAT JUST DISCOVERED

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Ella Adler joins a group of twelve for wakeboarding on Biscayne Bay over Mother’s Day weekend.  The girls take turns on two wakeboards towed behind the boat.  Ella ends up in the water. Still wearing a life vest, she makes it back over to the board and clings to it as she’s towed back to the yacht. While Ella’s still in the water, another boat gets dangerously close and shows no sign of stopping. Moments later, the boat strikes Ella, forcing her underneath. When Ella floats back up to the surface, she’s limp and there’s blood in the water. Ella dies before anyone can get her to shore.   The boat that hit Ella never slowed down, despite a legal requirement to stop, call law enforcement, and give aid. Maritime lawyers have contested claims the boat operator may not have realized they hit someone, saying anyone aboard would have felt the hit. A witness saw a fishing boat pass the gray yacht, and heard screams and distress calls over the yacht’s radio. They describe the boat as a light blue center console with dark blue bottom paint and three to four outboard engines.   JOINING NANCY TODAY Daniel Grammes - Maritime Lawyer / Attorney at Lipcon Margulies & Winkleman;  Insta: @dgram01 Phil Odom – Boating Accident Reconstructionist, Owner of H2O Investigations, and Former Law Enforcement; Facebook: H20 Investigations Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Dr. Michelle DuPre – Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff’s Department, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide;” Forensic Consultant Sydney Sumner - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell tonight, teen ballerina Ella, just 15, hit and killed by a speeding luxury boat as Ella water skied at a birthday party. The boat jets off, leaving Ella for dead. But after a massive search, the vessel just spotted. It's docked at a $4 million Coral Gables compound. According to experts, there is no way the driver did not know he mowed over the teen ballerina Ella. Good evening.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Although significant progress has been made, this is still an active investigation. call the wildlife alert hotline at 888-404-3922 or Miami-Dade Crime Stoppers at 305-471-8477. Our hearts and prayers are with the family and friends of Ella Adler and they remain in our thoughts during this difficult time. I just cannot imagine what Ella's parents and family are going through to lose your child at age 15, just 15 years old. And this girl was a star. We keep saying, we keep hearing teen ballerina. That's because Ella had starred in so many very serious and very sophisticated ballet performances. Just an amazing talent.

The apple of her parents' eye. Of course, that could be said of millions of 15 year olds. They're the apple of their parents' eye, but the dichotomy of the sharp contrast of letting your little girl go to a birthday party. She's an avid skier, avid swimmer. And then to find out she's dead and how in the hay could the boater speed away as if nothing happened? I don't believe that for one minute. What exactly did happen? Listen. Ella makes a good run on the wakeboard, but eventually ends up in the water. Still wearing a life vest, Ella makes it back over to the board and clings to it while she's towed back up to the yacht. While Ella's waiting in the water, another boat gets dangerously

close to her and shows no sign of stopping. Moments later, the boat strikes Ella, forcing her underneath. When Ella floats back up to the surface, she's limp and there's blood in the water. Ella dies before they make it back to shore. Joining me in All-Star Panel makes sense of what we know right now. But first, straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter who has been on the case since the very beginning when we heard Ella, a 15-year-old little girl, had been killed. Sidney Sumner joining us. Sidney, lead me up to the moment where Ella is struck by a boat. And according to reports that I have no reason to disbelieve, the boater just took off in the last hours after a massive search. That boat has been spotted outside a $4 million mansion.

Okay, hit me, Sydney. Nancy, Ella is 15 years old and she is joined by a group of 12 friends to celebrate a birthday. They were driven on a boat. It's unclear if this is one of the girls' fathers or maybe a rental company that was out driving the girls, but they took to Biscayne Bay in the late afternoon, around 4.30 p.m. So the girls were on this boat taking turns wakeboarding, so standing on one board, not two water skis, a board, and holding a tow line behind the boat. So Ella and one of her friends were behind the boat being towed. They both fell off at different times in different places in the water and were

waiting to be picked back up and get back in the boat. At this point, Ella is hit by a 40-foot Boston whaler boat that goes directly over the top of her. She disappears below the water. And when she floats back to the surface, there's lots of blood in the water and Ella is limp. Guys, Sydney Sumner joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. But for just one moment, I just want to talk about Ella. To Daniel Gramas joining us, high-profile maritime lawyer, and he is actually born and raised in this area in Miami. Daniel, do you have children? Not yet, Nancy. But if I did, I probably would not have been taking him to that area to do the wakeboarding.

It is a high-traffic area. Okay. Daniel, that is not at all what I was going to ask you regarding what Ella's family has been going through. And I'm detecting your suggestion that somehow this is the family or the birthday party host's fault. It is not.

There were many boats out. There were many people skiing, waterboarding, swimming. This is a recreational area. I am a very avid diver all around the world, swimmer, water enthusiast, let me just say. And there is no circumstance in a recreational water area that a boater should be at that speed, much less leave the scene of a crash. Bam. This was not an area where the children should not have been swimming. Where are you? Where are you getting that? Well, I definitely agree that the vessel that hit Ella is at fault. They were reckless. They should have had a lookout. And ultimately, it is on them

to avoid hitting Ella. And this is reckless operation. And we don't know yet whether or not it was a hit and run, but I think it's likely. We don't know if it's a hit and run. You believe all the witnesses are lying? No. They said Ella was hit. There was blood in the water and the driver took off. That's a hit and run. It is. As of right now, that's what we're going to label it. We haven't got any facts whether or not the driver knew. It's the authorities. If there was nothing wrong with what the boat did, do you think we would have had helicopters overhead and the Coast Guard and everybody else looking for the boat? No. They were looking for the boat because it hit Ella and took off.

You know what? That's not even what I was going to talk about. You know what? Daniel, don't move. But trust me, I'm going to circle back with you. Joining me right now is Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, lucky for me, detective out of Lexington County Sheriff's Department, and literally the author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She wrote the book. But Dr. Dupree, on a personal note, you have handled so many child autopsies. And when I look at this girl, beautiful, perfectly straight teeth, gorgeous outfit, professional photo, the parents have invested Dr. Dupree all of their love, all of their hopes. to making her dreams come true. Working long hours to support her, not only in school where she was a star student,

but in her ballet. Listen, Dr. Dupree, you've heard me talk about it. Lucy is a football manager and John David plays multiple sports. They're both honor students. You know how hard that is for the parent to try to make, help them make their dreams come true? I mean, that's a parent's focus, their goal. And now they find out Ella's at this birthday party and this happens to her. I mean, I don't know how you handle dealing with parents in these autopsies of children.

Nancy, this is such a tragic case for a beautiful young lady. And it's difficult. It weighs on, I'm sure, all of us who do these kinds of things and who have to talk to the parents. But at least what we try to do is give them some closure, give them some answer. And I hate that word closure because it really isn't. But we try to help them as best we can during these difficult times. And she was a beautiful young lady. Such a horrible story.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To think this little girl was out there. First of all, joining me in addition to a high-profile lawyer, maritime lawyer, Daniel Gramis from Miami, Sidney Sumner and Dr. Dupree. Joining me right now is Phil Odom, boating accident reconstructionist. He's the owner of H2O Investigations and former law enforcement. Phil, thank you so much for being with us. You see boating accidents all the time. You investigate them. You solve them. That's what you do. That's what you eat and what you breathe and what you live. How do you deal with parents like Ellis? I mean, I don't know how they put one foot in front

of the other after finding out their little girls out there swimming and waterboarding. And the next thing you know, there's literally blood in the water. And all you see is elbows and tail hole of the driver of the boat. He's gone. Compassion. That's the word. Only word I can think of is compassion. You have to deal with these folks. I have children. I can't imagine what it's like losing a child, but you have to take it in very small steps and try to give the family the answers the best that you can get them. You know, I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened, Phil Odom, because there is no way that this driver did not know what happened. Listen. The boat that hit Ella never slowed down, despite a legal requirement to stop, call law enforcement and give aid.

Maritime lawyers have contested claims the boat operator may not have realized they hit someone, saying anyone on board would have felt the hit a witness saw a fishing boat past the gray yacht then heard screams and distress calls over the yacht's radio they described the boat as a light blue center console with dark blue bottom paint and three or four outboard engines okay i need to understand that description it's not just a little fishing boat this is the full-on yacht. Well, what is that? With three outboard engines? Phil, what is that? Actually four. Four. There was actually four, not three. I couldn't see the horsepower. But your question is, how does that happen? It's called inattention. And by federal law, rule five, the operator of a vessel must maintain a proper lookout at all times. Only way that this could have happened was through inattention.

He did not see her in the water, which he was obligated to do. You know, we earlier heard Daniel Gramis state that they shouldn't have been out there boating because of the area. OK, technical legal term objection. That's what I call BS. And I can smell it all the way here in the studio where this occurred is not far offshore. It's near a beach area and it's a recreational area. There's no reason that Ella and her birthday party group should not have been there, Phil Odom. I agree with you 100%. It's open waters.

Obviously, you can ski in that area, wakeboard in that area. And if there is that type of traffic out there, then every operator of a boat should be at full attention. They should be more aware of their surroundings than if they were in very open water with no traffic density or anything. But somebody fell asleep at the switch and wasn't paying attention, and that's how this accident occurred. Now, when you say four outboard motors, why does one vessel, one yacht need four outboard motors? What does that indicate? How much would a yacht like this cost? And what's the difference between a boat and a yacht?

Nancy, I can't afford a boat like that. So I can't tell you the amount of money, but probably close to the millions. And the reason for the four outboards, and again, I don't know the horsepower, is to go fast. When you have a boat like that that's 40 foot long and you want to go fast, you need that type of horsepower to go fast. Guys, how could he possibly have not known? He had struck down Ella. It reminds me of a similar case. Dealing with a car, the defendant's name, I will never forget her, Shantae Mallard. Listen. Shantae Mallard drives home, a route she has taken many times, but this night she strikes

Gregory Glenn Biggs, who's walking along the highway. His body is propelled partially through the windshield, but Biggs does not die on impact. Instead of pulling over and callinggs, who's walking along the highway. His body is propelled partially through the windshield, but Biggs does not die on impact. Instead of pulling over and calling police, Mallard stops and tries to pull the moaning man off her car. When she can't dislodge the seriously wounded and bleeding man from her windshield, Mallard drives home, parks in the garage, and leaves Biggs there for hours to die. You know, I'm just trying to figure out, you are the boating accident reconstructionist, Phil Odom of H2O Investigations. But back to high profile maritime lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction, Daniel Gramas. Daniel, based on what our accident reconstructionist is telling us, how could the driver possibly have not known he hit Ella?

I think he did know. I think the forensic data of the outboard engines is going to show when the RPMs jump. You know, even in a vessel that's about 30,000 pounds, when you hit a hard object like that, you feel it. So, you know, all this conversation that he may not have heard it, I don't really buy it. You know, I'm a boater myself and you hit the smallest thing and you feel those vibrations. And no matter what, if you had the proper lookout, you would have seen her. So no matter what, it was careless operation on the vessel operator.

All motorboats in Florida are required to be registered and numbered by the county tax collector's office within 30 days of purchase. Owners are required to paint its number on both sides of the boat above the waterline, similar to a car's license plate. Owners must renew the registration annually, display a tag, and keep the registration documents on board. It appears to me, and I'm going to go to Daniel Gramas on this, who is a high-profile maritime lawyer, born and raised in this jurisdiction, Miami, avid boater. Daniel, it seems to me like he had his boat, his yacht, excuse me. I know you boat owners are very particular about calling your yacht a boat. He had his yacht in a private docking area, kind of an inlet of sorts.

Yes, he had the convenience of having his vessel right behind his house, which, you know, in a situation like this, he was able to get away pretty easily. And, you know, they didn't find the vessel until two days later, which to me is very suspicious. What do you mean by that? Because I feel the same way, Daniel. I kind of hate to agree with you on anything, but I found that very suspicious too. Why do you say that? Well, you know, all these reports were coming out in the local news. This was not something that was a secret. And we knew about the description of this vessel, and we knew about the path that the vessel was likely going. If you're that operator and you truly had nothing and you didn't do anything wrong or per se the conversation is,

then you would come forward a lot quicker and say, hey, that might have been me. I didn't notice. But that's not what we had here. We had time to think about how we're going to approach this situation. And two days later, in fact, I don't even think this person came forward. I think the FWC was the one that actually found the vessel. And then, quote unquote, we see cooperation, which to the extent we don't know yet, but we will find out. When you say FWC, Daniel, to what are you referring? Yeah, FWC is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Control

here in Florida. And they patrol our waters, our surrounding waters, including fishery regulations and also, you know, enforcing the laws on the water. Daniel, I want to follow up on what you just said. Let me put it to you the way I would tell a jury. This guy had to be hiding under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world with no cable and no internet, not to know that his yacht was under suspicion that he was being looked for. So I know you're normally the one doing the cross-examination, Daniel Gramis, but was the defendant under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world without internet or cable? That's a yes, no. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think he is. I mean, I'm taking that as a no. Look at where he's at on the water. The house he has.

As Daniel described it, he had the convenience of docking right outside his house and walking. I don't know, looks like 30, 40, maybe 50 feet in to his mansion, passing by his pool en route. That said, I guarantee you they've got internet and gable in there. So what leads you to believe? You know what? Let me ask Phil Odom. Phil Odom joining me in addition to Daniel Gramis and Dr. Dupree. Phil, I agree with Gramis. This guy didn't say, look, I hit the girl. I didn't mean to. At first, I wasn't sure what happened. Then I realized what happened, and I panicked, and I ran. Here's my yacht.

I did it, and I don't want to cause the family any more grief. Now, that I could have respected. Well, there could have been an easier way to do it, too. He had to have known exactly what route he was taking. Even if he truly believed he didn't hit her or hit nothing, then why wouldn't he call Florida Fish and Wildlife and go, hey, I was in this area, I own this type of boat, would you guys like to come out and look at it?

That would have been upfront. That would have been honest. That would have put a little more credibility in his story. But when he waits two days, and as you said, living on a rock with no internet, no anything, that had to be a big story in Florida. It's a story here in Texas. For him not to put two and two together, I don't know what to tell you. You know, another thing, Dr. Michelle Dupree, a forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.

And you have a recent book. What's the name of your new book, Dr. Dupree, about Alex Murdoch? It's called Money, Mischief, and Murder, The Downfall of the Murdoch Dynasty, the Rest of the Story. I lived through the trial. I can't guarantee I'm going to read a book about it. But, Dr. Dupree, I've certainly poured over your Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, you've handled so many boating accident cases and boating car crash cases.

Very often, people may not hear that they hit someone, but certainly you can feel it. I mean, have you ever hit anything with your car? You don't necessarily have to hear it. You can feel it. That's what Gramis was saying earlier. Absolutely. Absolutely. There had to be something, you know, you can tell when you get something. Absolutely. Even on a boat. Dr. Dupree, you've handled so many water deaths. I want to talk to you about that. In fact, you handled and investigated the death of Mallory Beach, you know, outside the investigation. There is something very different, very unique.

It's a whole another animal. And I know when I dealt with drowning homicides or water-related homicides, gathering the evidence, it's a whole another skill set. And prosecuting, investigating any mishap on the water. Explain that and compare it to the cases you've handled. Well, Nancy, of course, with the water, a lot of the forensic evidence is literally washed away. As you know, in any crime like this, the body itself can tell us so many things. But when it's been in the water, when there's been a tragedy like this, so much of that is taken away. And these are typically significant injuries

to the person. And then that water just takes away some of the evidence, the forensic evidence that we might find. It makes it much more difficult. Another thing I don't understand, and maybe Daniel or Phil could jump in and clear this up for me. I thought that boats are like vehicles. For instance, you know, you have to register your vehicle. You have to have insurance on it and you've got the VIN number and everything else on that insurance. Don't boats have to be registered and identified in much the same way to you, Daniel?

Isn't that correct? Yes, that's correct. So they do require registration. But, you know, as far as whether or not they're going to have the same requirements as a car, they're a little bit different in how they can register. You can do state, federal, or even some vessels, they can register them in foreign countries for legal benefits. But, you know, they have to properly display what's called in Florida, we call FL numbers on the sides of the vessel. Unless it's documented.

If it's documented, then they don't have to display an FL number or number on the sides of the vessel. Unless it's documented. If it's documented, then they don't have to display an FFL number or number on the side. The owners of the home where the boat was located have been identified as Carlos Alonso and his wife Magali Alonso. The Miami Herald reports that a child of the Alonzos has a boat registered to him. Authorities have said the owners are cooperating with the investigation, but have not identified who the owners are or who was driving at the time of Ella's death. Then how is that cooperating? If they are cooperating, they would tell us who are the owners and who is driving. So I don't know that taking off at a high speed and hiding your boat in an obscure docking position is really cooperating. But that said, joining me is Sydney Sumner, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Sydney, tell me about the search for the boat that has just been spotted and recovered. Nancy, FWC Chairman Rodney Barreto has described that search as good old-fashioned police work. Once they had a physical description of the boat they were looking for, officers were dispatched to all of the canals from South Miami to Coconut Grove to try and locate this boat. Dispatched? Who was dispatched, Sydney? FWC officers. Okay, dispatched from where to where? South Miami all the way to Coconut Grove. Okay. Daniel Graham is joining us, maritime lawyer in this jurisdiction. How big, how large of a swath of water is that? Where were they looking? Well, it's a pretty large area. You know, Miami has a lot of waterfront homes in the area,

so it took at least a day to find the vessel in this area. Yeah, you know, Sydney, how long was the search? Didn't it go for several days? That is correct, Nancy. I believe we learned where the boat was located on Tuesday, and this accident was Saturday. So there was definitely a significant amount of time spent searching for this boat. Guys, we are taking a look at the search for the boat that according to authorities, FWC ran down a teen girl ballerina, a gorgeous little girl. Right now we're sifting through the intricacies of how the boat, the yacht was found. Why is that important? Because if there is a jury trial or if there is a plea of any sort, the boat driver, the yacht driver is going to fall under suspicion, obviously. And to me, Daniel Gramas, the fact that authorities, the FWC, had to search for days

to find this guy, they finally find him through water searches and through aerial searches and, as they say, good old-fashioned police work. If this guy was cooperating, they wouldn't have had to do all that, Daniel. Well, Nancy, in situations like this, we represent the victims, but anticipating the defenses, his defense is going to be that he didn't see Ella. Perhaps the boat was on autopilot and that there was no opportunity to see her because the wakeboarding boat had dropped her right in front of the vessel and he had no opportunity to avoid and didn't notice at the time of navigating the vessel. That's what I would assume his defense is going to be when the time comes. So Daniel Graham is a maritime lawyer joining us out of the Miami area.

Daniel, do you believe that there is any way that's not going to be brought up at a plea or a trial that he basically hid out while the Coast Guard and the FWC are turning the world upside down to find him? No, all these sorts of factors would come into play, especially at a sentencing hearing regarding how he came forward, what are the circumstances and what was said immediately after the incident. So all of these are going to be factors that if he is convicted and there goes to a sentencing hearing, you know, all the facts that we have are going to be put forth before a judge. Well, Daniel Gramis, I don't know that we're going to have to wait for sentencing,

because wouldn't you agree that in so many felony cases, evidence of flight is introduced in many jurisdictions? Of course, the prosecutor can't argue that flight equals a dish of guilt. But I mean, you know, when the Florida Highway Patrol comes up behind you, Daniel Gramis, you might tap the brakes a little bit, but you don't take off a 90 MPH, do you? Because you have no reason to take off, I assume. Right. Hit and run is an aggravating circumstance to a crime like this as being one that they would take into consideration in sentencing. Of course, his anticipated defense is going to say, well, I didn't know. I didn't realize what happened. Never saw what happened and just kept on going my merry way to my house in Coral Gables. You know, another thing he could argue, and I certainly don't want to give them fuel for fodder,

but Daniel, he could blame those four outboard motors that Phil Odom was just describing. Talk about the noise that they created. Claim that he was listening to music and because it was outside on the water, he had it cranked up really loudly. Then he would be asked, you didn't feel anything. I find that hard to believe. And he could very easily argue it was choppy. I was feeling all sorts of bumps and ups and downs on the choppy water. I didn't feel anything. Can't you just see that unfolding in court, Daniel?

Yeah, I can. And I can see the opposite argument to that. There's a huge difference between a light chop of water and hitting an object in the water like a person. The displacement of the water when it hits the boat, the V-shaped hole is made to disperse that water. When you hit an object, the vibrations that that sends to the vessel is far different from when you hit a chop. So, you know, that would be the counter argument to, I didn't realize, it just felt like I hit, you know, some sort of wake or light chop. In an incident report, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission has identified the boater that hit and killed Ella Adler. Carlos Alonso, the homeowner where the boat was found, admitted he was driving the boat alone Saturday, May 11th.

Neighbors describe Alonso as a family man and experienced boater, adding that he is devastated by what happened. There has been no word if any criminal charges will be filed. Okay, I would like to believe that. I really would. But if you're devastated about what happened, then why are you hiding? Criminal charges will be filed. Okay, I would like to believe that. I really would. But if you're devastated about what happened, then why are you hiding and not coming forward to ease the suffering of the parents? They just had to bury their 15-year-old little girl. Just 15.

Gorgeous little girl. The product of so much love. Gone. gone forever. Joining me is an all-star panel, but I want to go to boating accident reconstructionist, owner H2O Investigations, Phil Odom. Phil, what evidence, like we all can relate to evidence on a car because we hear about it all the time. You've got a broken front light. You have possibly blood on the car. You have a dent in the car. We know what we're looking at for a car, a vehicular homicide hit and run. But on a boat, you're out in the water, which makes this type of investigation so much more difficult because the evidence is lost. It's going to be on the underside of the boat. The evidence is

going to be striations or transfers on the hull of the boat. The color of the weight board will play a big part of it, what color her personal flotation device was, and anything else of color. Also, we're unsure at this particular point in time, but it sounds like there was probably a prop strike, so she or her weight board went into a prop. Hair, other biological evidence could be there. You're going to want to get that boat out of water as soon as you can in order to start analyzing that and get your forensics people out there along with her clothing that she was wearing that will be gotten it off of. So the clothing is important. Why, Phil?

Because you'll be able to match the striations or what actually caused it. I actually had a case where I had a person get ran over by a boat and the buckle, which was made of black plastic, the personal flotation device wants to push you up above the water and the boat's actually holding you below the water. So that creates a certain amount of force on the hull of the boat's actually holding you below the water. So that creates a certain amount of force on the hull of the boat and that buckle actually melted and you could follow the path of the person that got hit all the way underneath the hull to the back of the boat. Daniel Gramas, a maritime lawyer, are you familiar with what Phil is saying? How could her swimsuit be of value in gathering evidence? And what can you tell us about striations and marks on the underside of the boat

that the FWC and authorities will be looking for? Sure. You're going to look for any of the clothing or any of the wakeboard, any markings on the vessel itself, into the props, on the skegs of the outboard engines. But also I think it's important to get the electronical data from the vessel, including the GPS, navigational chart plotter data. It's gonna show the route that matches up with where Ella was wakeboarding

in the area where she was found. And then also the outboard engine data, because if Ella was hit by the prop or her wakeboard went into the prop, we're going to see some sort of disturbance in the RPMs and the performance of the motors. And if it matches up with what we see in the GPS data, then they're going to be able to use that as circumstantial evidence. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Daniel Gramas and Phil Odom, and now joining us, a renowned medical examiner, Dr. Kendall Crowns, joining us out of Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, who is a lecturer at the medical school at TCU.

Dr. Kendall Crowns, thanks for joining. You know, I just was thinking, Daniel, about a recent case that all of us on the panel today worked, and that was the Alex Murdoch double murder of his wife Maggie and son Paul. In that case, it was amazing, Daniel, the level of sophisticated data that was taken from his vehicle. I believe it was a suburban vehicle. The nav system showed us every time the window was rolled up or down to throw out his wife's cell phone along the side of the street, when he sped up, when he slowed down, when he opened a door, when he put it in park or drive.

I'm thinking about what must be a very sophisticated electronic system and data system on a yacht that costs this much money. And I'm wondering about the jump in the RPMs also. So what could be obtained specifically from the black box, so to speak, from this yacht? What can I learn about the precise moment that Ella was struck? Yes. So like you said, the jump in the RPM, you're going to see some sort of issue there if there was a prop or skag engine encounter with ella also what's going to be interesting is whether or not there was any sort of increase in speed because we have this theory that we were concerned about of whether

or not it's a hit and run and if you increase speed after this incident that's going to be a likely circumstantial factor that's going to say why did you increase your speed right after this incident? That's going to be a likely circumstantial factor that's going to say, why did you increase your speed right after this incident? You know, what's your answer to that? And that's going to be a very important answer to that question. Now I see, Daniel, why you win so many cases. Another thing I heard, which is food for thought, no word on charges. And joining me now, our now medical examiner who has handled countless water deaths, including water homicides, Dr. Kendall Crowns, joining us out of Tarrant County. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you so much for being with us. Tell me about what you have gleaned regarding this case

and other cases similar to it that you have performed the autopsies. So anytime you have an individual struck by a boat, you get the standard blunt force injuries, fractures of the skull, fractures of the ribs, things of that nature. But then also you have the additional effect of the propeller from the motorboat. This is a propeller from a motorboat that I had a case from a few years ago. But what happens is the propeller is spinning through the water. It'll come into contact with the body, and the prop blades will actually cut into the body like hatchets, if you will, and leave these gigantic lines on the face and on the body like hatchets, if you will, and leave these gigantic lines on the face

and on the body. And then can even make a large enough cut into the body where it will eviscerate out the organs. So you have that blunt force injury component from the boat striking the individual, and then you have the kind of chop wound effect from the propeller blades as it crosses over the body. Dr. Crowns, I know that you have performed around 10,000 autopsies, actually more. But when a death occurs in the water, is it more difficult to get evidence from the victim's body? It can be because you have the effect of

them being in the water, which can wash away evidence. And then if recovery takes a while, you have the loss of blood seeping out of the body and it will change the look of the wounds. So you're unsure if they happened at the time of death or if it's something that happened later. And then you get the added effect of the local fish and turtles all beginning to bite or chew at the body. So if recovery takes a while, the more evidence is lost, the longer the body sits in that water. Luckily in this case, Dr. Crowns, Ella was taken out of the water almost immediately,

but there was blood in the water. So this was not, for instance, a closed head injury where someone is hit by the boat and they suffer a brain, a blow to the head causing a closed head injury. So explain to me what you believe was the cause of the blood in the water. It had to be from a propeller. Do you agree? Yes. She would have been exposed to the propeller blades if she went under the vessel, which is likely the propellers create some sort of suctions and the body would have likely been sucked into those propellers, those blades, hit also the skeg, which is right behind the propeller, and caused some serious damage to the body. As you all know, a jury or

judge can consider behavior before, during, and after an incident. If you know or think you know anything to help Ella's family in this case or to help the FWC as they build their case, please dial 888-404-3922. Repeat, 888-404-3922. We stop and remember American hero, Sergeant Philip Dale Nix, Colfax, North Carolina. Sergeant Nix shot and killed attempting to intervene in a crime at a gas station. He survived by his grieving wife, Kelly, and beloved son, Will. American hero, Sergeant Philip Dale Nix. I want to thank our guests today, maritime lawyer, Daniel Grammis, boating reconstructionist, H2O Investigations, Phil Odom, Dr. Michelle Dupree, Sydney Sumner, and our renowned medical examiner, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Thank you to them, but especially to you for being with us tonight and everyone joining us seeking justice.

Nancy Grace signing off. Good night, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.