Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen cheerleader hires hit men TWICE to kill parents, Using parents' debit card and PAY PAL!

Episode Date: September 20, 2019

Teen Alyssa Hatcher steals money from her parents and uses it to try to have them killed. Joining Nancy Grace today: Attorney Brad Micklin, family law ; Dr. Jolie Silva,  Clinical and Forensic Psychologist;  Joe Scott Morgan Forensics Expert; Steven Lampley Former Detective; Levi Page, reporter. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. five family members, including John Sisk, stepmother Mary Sisk, and three children. Gwinnett County police are investigating at this hour after two siblings allegedly tried to kill their parents. The Monmouth County prosecutor says a 16-year-old fatally shot his mother, 42-year-old Linda Koloji, his father, 44-year-old Steve Koloji, his sister, 18-year-old Brittany Koloji, as well as a family friend, 70-year-old Mary Scholoji, his sister, 18-year-old Brittany Koloji, as well as a family friend, 70-year-old Mary Schultz. We will be charging this individual with four counts of murder. Dawn and Antonio were shot in the head while they slept.

Their son, AJ, charged with their murders. It's not even the fact of just dealing with not having my parents anymore. It's the fact that I'm being accused of something of this magnitude. Well, actually, he was being accused because he did it. That one has since been found guilty of murdering his parents. What is it with youth, children, teens murdering their parents? It's all crashed back into the headlines when a teen girl, and this is a soccer player on the school team, a cheerleader for the school, a straight-A student, a teen girl, Alyssa Hatcher, accused of hiring not one, but two sets of hitmen to murder her mother and her stepfather, who, by the way, is a lieutenant

sheriff. I mean, I'm having a hard time taking it in. Everybody, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Famous trial lawyer Brad Micklin joining me from the Micklin Law Group based in New Jersey renowned clinical forensic psychologist Dr. Jolie Silva professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Joseph Scott Morgan detective Stephen Lampley and right now to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Levi Page, you know, I prosecuted and have covered many, many, let me just say hundreds of cases of juvenile killers and would-be killers. But this one really takes the cake because this girl

seemingly is all scrubbed in sunshine. That's not real. Let's just start at the beginning. Who is Alyssa Hatcher, a teen girl out of near Ocala, Florida? This is in central Florida, Nancy. You're correct. And Alyssa is 17 years old. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, I hate to pick a fight with you this early on, but this isn't really a fight. This is a clarification. To Joseph Scott Morgan, you travel that area extensively in your work. Joe Scott, when we say Central Florida, I'm not talking about the Miracle Mile at PCB Panama City Beach. I'm not talking about Daytona Beach.

I'm not talking about Disney where they're in'm not talking about Disney, where they're in Orlando. We hear about all sorts of crimes. This is out in a rural area. And what's significant about that, Joe Scott Morgan, is that that should be a very low crime rate with very low bad influences on your children. People all the time go, I'm just going to move out to the country so my children won't hear anything about pot or cocaine or anything bad for them. But this is out in the heartland of Florida, central Florida. Did you hear Levi Page say that? Yeah, I did. And, you know, this evokes images of orange groves, you know, are, you know, ridden through this area extensively. And also, people don't know this, horse farms and cattle ranches.

So you begin to think about this is kind of an agricultural area out here where you think your kids are going to be saved. It ain't Miami Beach. No, it's not. Okay, it's not the hot spot where you see the Kardashians at the top of some penthouse in a miniskirt up to their yin-yang. I mean, this is really the heartland of Florida, Joseph Scott Morgan. It certainly is, Nancy. It is, and it's a place that you think is going to be rather peaceful and bucolic, and your kids are

going to escape all these things. And of course, in this case, that turns out not to be true. You know, Brad Micklin, you're a veteran trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group in New Jersey. You know, people have the wrong idea about New Jersey. It's the Garden State, and there's a reason for that. Yes, there's that horrible intro on Sopranos, okay, and yes, there's the airport. Yes, there's a lot of industry and yes parts of it are stinky but new jersey also is beautiful they don't call it the garden state for nothing because there are a vast of a huge majority of jersey is beautiful trees rolling country that's the fact and you know we're always so shocked when crimes occur in rural

areas. What about you, Brad Micklin? Do most of your cases, your controversial cases, occur in cities or in rural areas? I think nowadays you can't really narrow down to where things occur. There's usually four causes to a heinous crime like this, especially in a child of this age. Psychiatric issues, drug abuse, abuse at home, or as we know, the root of all evil. Money, cash, life insurance. I don't think it matters whether you're in Florida, New Jersey, Texas. You're going to have these everywhere. We just see more of it because of social media. Wow, that was a mouthful, and I think you're right. I don't tell anybody I agree with a defense lawyer. Dr. Jolie Silva, why don't have we lulled ourselves into thinking that if you're in a rural area like this place near Ocala, Florida, that everything's going to be peaceable?

I mean, look, there there's abuse that occurs in homes there. There are certainly psychiatric issues that occur everywhere. I mean, look, when you're in when you're in inner city areas, you see you tend to see more of that stuff than when you're in middle class areas and rural areas, but it certainly is there. But it's not as prominent, especially when socioeconomic status is a little bit higher maybe in rural areas. I'm not familiar with this particular area, and you don't see as much drug use and as much of that insidious psychopathology, but it certainly exists there. And it's probably something that was going on with this girl, no matter what she appeared like on the outside. Yeah, I heard a lot of what you were saying, and there is no suggestion of any type of molestation or abuse on this girl at all i mean stephen lampley you've seen it all boy you've been around the block once or twice

stephen lampley detective i mean you don't know it's not always the parent's fault when you get a devil child you know it's just not no nancy it's not. And I want to touch on just a moment what they were saying earlier. You know, yes, we'd like to think of the country and the rural areas as being peaceful. But it's my understanding that per capita, in other words, the average, this happens just as often population-wise in the rural areas as it does in the cities because, you know, you look at the cities and you hear about it, there's more of it going on, but there's more people. But it still happens in the rural areas. But, yes, getting back to your question, we don't get to pick and choose our parents.

We don't get to pick and choose our children. Sometimes the situations end up going grossly awry, and then we get some mismatch. We get some criminals. We get some devil children. Sometimes the situations end up going grossly awry, and then we get some mismatch, we get some criminals, we get some devil children. Levi Pace, see, all you said was Central Florida, and just look what happened. Pick it back up, Levi. So this 17-year-old, Alyssa Hatcher, she withdrew money from her parents' ATM, and she gave a lot of that money Nancy to someone at a drug house for cocaine and then gave the other portion of the money she withdrew $500 she gave $100 to get cocaine and then wait wait wait a minute whoa wait wait wait she did it twice yeah first she got several hundred dollars, according to police. And I've very carefully read the affidavit, which you can read word for word, just like I did at CrimeOnline.com.

We got our little mitts on the affidavit. It says first she gets out several hundred dollars. Let's just say 500. And she spends 100 bucks of that on cocaine. And then she uses the other to try to get a hitman to kill her parents. All right, they do nothing. They didn't turn up dead. They did not turn up dead. And that is when she went to someone else. Got more money on her parents' debit card. Gets out $900 this time and tries to get another hitman. Okay, take it from there, Levi. And that is when one of her classmates had overheard this conversation

and went to a school resource officer and said, this is what she's doing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Umatilla High School student Alyssa Hatcher is facing a charge of criminal solicitation to commit murder. The Lake County Sheriff's Office says the targets were her parents. According to the investigator, the parents were willing to prosecute, you know. And so like I said before, you know, you think I'm a parent as well. You know, I couldn't imagine something like that happening to me. The investigation began when Hatcher's parents notified Umatilla Police that there were two unexplained transactions at this Bank of America ATM machine, totaling more than $1,400.

She stole a credit card from her parents and used it fraudulently. At that point, your department didn't know, and her parents didn't know why she would have taken it. No, no, sir. AT THAT POINT, YOUR DEPARTMENT DIDN'T KNOW AND HER PARENTS DIDN'T KNOW WHY SHE WOULD HAVE TAKEN. NO, NO, SIR. THAT LANDED HER CHARGES OF GRAND THEFT, FRAUD, AND PETTY THEFT. BUT MONDAY, A STUDENT TOLD AUTHORITIES SHE HEARD OF A DOUBLE MURDER PLOT. WHEN DEPUTIES QUESTIONED HATCHER, THEY WROTE IN THEIR REPORT, THE DEFENDANT SAID SHE SPENT $100 ON COCAINE AND THEN GAVE $400 TO A FRIEND

TO GIVE TO SOMEONE TO KILL HER PARENTS. spent $100 on cocaine and then gave $400 to a friend to give to someone to kill her parents. When that plan failed, deputies say she told them she gave $900 to someone else to kill her parents. Whoa. You're hearing CBS4 Miami reporter Elliot Rodriguez. A young teen girl, a soccer star, as well as a cheerleader there at her high school in rural Florida, could it be that she not only withdraws on two occasions nearly $1,000, Dave Mack, Jackie, is it $1,000 or is it more than $1,000? More than $1,000. To have her parents killed, kick her, she used their debit card. So let me understand this to Levi Page investigative

reporter with crimeonline.com joining us Levi so not only does she get the cash pay it to two separate hit men but she actually uses her own parents debit card steals it and uses it to kill the parents do I have that right right, Levi? Yes, you're absolutely correct, Nancy. And she was investigated before this murder for hire plot. She was investigated for stealing the debit card and her parents found out that she did it when they discovered those charges. And then they went to her room and found their bank information. She had written it down and had it in her room. Okay, wait, wait, slow down, slow down. Levi, I'm drinking from the fire hydrant. Too much at once. So the parents notice. The parents are alive. Obviously, the first hit man didn't do his job.

Had no idea about the murder for hire. And when they were informed that their credit card was, or debit card, was used not with their permission, they started investigating and they went into their daughter's room and found their bank information written down in her room. And this was even before they had found out that she was plotting to have them killed. Take a listen to our friend at WKMG News 6. This is Jerry Askins. Investigators say her friend actually reported the crime.

Deputies today told us in Lake County that she stole her parents' debit cards to buy drugs and actually gave money to two of her friends to try and get her parents killed. And we just got the report here in Lake County in the past hour or so ago, and right now we're working to find out more. Here is a picture right now we just got of 17-year-old Alyssa Hatcher. She was arrested yesterday, and right now she's being charged as a juvenile. Deputies say she admitted to using her parents' debit card and made two purchases. She said she bought cocaine for $100 or so

and also gave money to a friend to get someone to kill her parents. She said because it never happened, she gave $900 or so to a second man to kill her parents. And deputies say her parents wanted her prosecuted. And back out here live in Lake County, Hatcher left the jail here about 10.45 this morning, bound for the juvenile jail in Ocala. Headed for Juvie Jail, that'll be a walk in the park. Alyssa Michelle Hatcher is a Florida teen girl accused of paying not one but two hitmen to kill her parents. It ended up as a failed murder-for-hire plot.

Kicker, she actually used money she stole from her mom and stepfather's debit account. She's a teen high school girl in Umatilla, Florida. She was busted after a friend heard her talking about the scheme. She heard that the girl, Alyssa Hatcher, paid a friend, quote, a lot of money to kill her parents. Now, what about this? Joseph Scott Morgan. It didn't take long to crack the boyfriend. They walk up to him and think, what do you know about this? He goes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw her, and she wanted to kill both of her parents. She told me that.

She told a friend that. I mean, it didn't take much to crack him, Joseph Scott Morgan, and there's certainly no boyfriend-girlfriend privilege. No, there's absolutely not, and this is a confederacy of dunces that we're dealing with here probably. She's reached out to these so-called hit men, and they'll say there's a sucker born every moment. She's 17 years old, and, yes, she's looking to have perpetrated a horrible, horrible crime here, but these people that she's interacting with,

they know a quick score when they see it, and her money is gone, Her parents' money is gone. And all they're left with is the idea, the parents certainly, that, hey, our daughter wanted us murdered. And that's the reality. To Brad Micklin, trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group out of New Jersey. Brad Micklin, I recall in a somewhat well-covered famous case, a mother was called to a grand jury and the public was up in arms about a mother having to testify or speak against her daughter. Here's the deal. There is husband-wife privilege, priest-parishioner, as it is called, privilege, attorney-client privilege, there are very few. Doctor-patient privilege, there are a few, very few privileges, and there's certainly not a

girlfriend-boyfriend privilege where you don't have to tell what your lover said or did during your relationship. So if you tell your parents or your child tells you, your business associate, your best friend, your lover, under the law, you must repeat that if you are subpoenaed. Absolutely, Nancy. There's no privilege, as you mentioned, and parents remain legally responsible for the actions of their children. So if they don't report it, in many circumstances, they can become liable for the consequences of it. You know, and we're talking about whether she had intent, whether she had intent to carry this out. I mean, it could be very easily argued she did not one but two attempts to kill her parents. Now, you know, another thing that's disturbing to Dr. Jolie Silva, clinical and forensic psychologist joining us, Dr. Silva, she's got a very, let me just say, robust social media presence. And in some of those, you see her with who I think to be her mother, Tammy Hatcher Scheller.

And they look so happy together. They're on a ride. It looks like of some sort, like, you know, a roller coaster maybe. And they're clearly spending mom and daughter time together. How could everything go so wrong, Dr. Silva? I mean, look, there are families that, you know, can have such a level of dysfunction. And, and for, for her, for the, for, for Alyssa, I mean, her level of dysfunction is clearly off the charts. I mean, and you, you can look at pictures of people on the outside, whether it's on social media or in person and everybody's

smiling and then behind closed doors, I'm not suggesting that there was any kind of violence going on within this home, but, but, you know, you can have a couple who are smiling and happy, and then behind closed doors, there's severe domestic violence going on. So she was happy with her mother sometimes, probably. It is her mother. But then she just immediately switches. Who knows why?

She hates them. She thinks they're unfair. She has antisocial sociopathy going on. Who knows what's going on with her psychologically? Clearly, there's a lot going on with her psychologically. Whoa, whoa, I'm just a trial lawyer. What do you mean by antisocial sociopathy? What's that?

I mean, basically, you know, people who commit crimes with intent like that don't have remorse. You know, it was not an impulsive act. It wasn't out of nowhere because she planned it not just once but twice. So, you know, she inherently would likely not have remorse for doing those things. I mean, maybe she would. The chances are not. Okay, I think what you're saying is antisocial sociopathy is when, even though you are seemingly a member of a society where we have rules that we live by, that's what a society is, you commit those crimes with a seeming lack of empathy and remorse,

complete disregard for society's rules. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Deputies say Hatcher confessed at her home last night to paying one guy. Then when it never happened, she paid a second guy to try and kill her parents. In all, deputies say she paid both guys a total of $1,300. The investigators said there was drugs involved, so we don't know if this was a drug-induced decision that she made, but either way, it's a very serious one sometimes people take things too far and this appears to be one of those things well that's certainly putting perfume on the pig taking it too far according to police

she tried to have both her mother and stepfather murdered and oh by way, you were just listening to our friends at WKMG. That was News 6 reporter Jerry Askins. She left quite a trail. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Now, if that doesn't make you want to buy it, I don't know what does. Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Listen to this, Joe Scott. You're our forensic specialist.

I'm laughing because it's so rare I get to cover a case where nobody's dead yet anyway. So listen to this girl, okay? She withdraws money from an ATM using her parents' debit card. She makes one payment and then she sends the second payment via PayPal. Talk about leaving a child. I'm so happy. Okay. It took me forever to set up my PayPal account. I still have to put in five or six incorrect passwords before I can actually buy a pair of tennis shoes for John David or Lucy. So she actually uses PayPal to pay the hitman to kill her mother and stepfather, the sheriff. And the mom is a nurse that works for the government. I mean, what was she thinking?

I have no idea, Nancy. And talk about, you know, you talk about you talk about forensic. You did hear I said PayPal, right? Yeah, I did. It's tied into your email and your credit card. And, you know, to kind of kind of dovetail what you're talking about, forensics and investigations, you know, back years ago, we would look for footprints at crime scenes and we still do. Well, she's left a significant digital footprint here, tracking everything that she's done, everything from, you know, PayPal, which is, you know, essentially a banking system in order to move money around. And also, not to mention the signature, the digital signature left behind by the emails.

All of this stuff can be tracked. It's absolutely stunning. Joe Scott, Joe Scott, if you order your murder weapon on PayPal, it's like taking out a billboard on 3rd Avenue. I'm trying to kill my parents. Stop me. I don't think that she has a future as some kind of criminal dark overlord that is going to be deceiving people all over the place. Mistress of the dark? Yes.

No. You know, I'm just waiting to find out if she's going to be treated as a juvenile or an adult, and I'll get back to Micklin on that. But speaking of PayPal, not only did she do that she's in a lot of trouble as well because stephen lampley she goes to what apparently is a drug house now why this cheerleader slash soccer player slash straight a student is at a drug house i do not know but she spotted a drug house and when trying to hire the hitman she goes get a black male to do it okay you know what like she's basically framing some black male wandering around now it's going to be his decision whether he wants to go do a hit or not. But just the attitude of saying, go get a black male to do it, that is very disturbing in itself, Stephen Lampley. Sure it is, Nancy. Sure it is.

And I don't know her thought processes behind this, but I agree with you. That's a very disturbing statement. But at the core of it all, I think her desire was to have her parents killed, and whoever she thought best to do this was who she was seeking out. And she, of course, failed the first time. They took her money and ran, and apparently they did the second time as well. So I think she was just seeking out anybody that would be, you know, the person that would take this and run with it and do her dastardly deed for her. Long story short, we also hear, correct me if I'm wrong, Levi Page,

but Jackie Howard here in the studio thinks it's a very integral point that she took the debit card out of her mom, Terry Hatcher's quote, locked wallet. Locked as in you lock your home when you leave. Locked wallet. What do we know, Levi? That's correct, Nancy. And that goes to tell you that she may have done this before because they immediately went to her room when they found out that their debit card had been used. And I don't know about you, but whenever I was a teenager, if my parents had charges on their debit card and it wasn't them, they would not immediately go to my room to look to investigate. They did here in this case. And, Nancy, you were talking about a trail that she left behind. You know, a lot of ATMs, I would suspect all of them in 2019 have video cameras.

So there's going to be that. And she confessed on video camera to police. So I can't imagine her pleading anything other than guilty because they have her nailed. Well, that brings me to another issue. Will this 17-year-old cheerleader slash soccer player slash straight-A student be treated as an adult? To Brad Micklin, trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group in New Jersey, Brad, in many jurisdictions, there exists the, quote, seven deadlies, which is, you know, a bastardization of the seven deadly sins in Canterbury Tales. So the seven deadlies are, for instance, you know, you're a juvenile, you're, let's just say 15, and you commit one of these crimes, murder, rape, sodomy, kidnapping, armed robbery, arson, crimes of that nature, then you are almost automatically bound over. Yes, there is a pro forma hearing in front of a juvie judge,

but you're going to go to adult court because those are such serious crimes. They're adult crimes and you get adult punishment. Now, let there be no mistake when a juvenile is convicted in adult court, that juvenile does not then go into adult jail. They remain in juvenile jail until they reach majority, be it 18 or 21, usually 21. Then they go into an adult jail if there's still time left on their sentence. Do you think Alyssa Hatcher is going to be treated as a juvie or as an adult? The fact that she's taken to juvie jail means nothing. She's going to stay in juvie jail no matter what until she reaches majority.

So treated as an adult or treated as a juvie? I thought she was going to be treated as an adult based on her age, how close she is to being a legal adult, and the nature of the offense. But I think one of the reports you played a moment ago said that she's being tried as a juvenile, even though nothing I've seen in the media suggested either way yet. I think it was saying that she's taken into juvenile custody. I heard the very same thing, and my ears pricked up thinking, oh, was it decided? It has not been decided yet, to my understanding. Is she going to be treated as an adult or a juvenile? You know, very, very curious the way this whole thing is playing out.

Take a listen to our friends at WKMG. This is News 6 reporter Ginger Gadsen. A teen accused of stealing her parents' money to hire someone to kill them makes her first appearance in front of a judge. Alyssa Hatcher appeared in a Lake County courtroom today. According to a police affidavit, the 17-year-old stole $1,300 from her parents' bank account. The affidavit says the teen paid $400 to a friend to kill her parents. When it didn't happen, Hatcher reportedly paid someone else $900 to do the job. The documents state she also used the money to buy cocaine. Hatcher has been charged as a juvenile with two counts of criminal solicitation for murder.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. She's sitting in juvenile jail facing felony charges and deputies say her friend told a school resource deputy that deputy told investigators here in Lake County. And right now we're asking Lake County Sheriff's deputies to release more. There is nothing that your parents can do to you, be it you're grounded, a car is taken away, you can't go to the prom, whatever, for you to get to this point. Right now as Lake County investigators are piecing together why they say 17-year-old Alyssa Hatcher stole her parents' debit card and paid two guys to try and kill them. They want to remind other kids there's help out there. That's why they have the counselor set up in school for things like this, but you know, as far as juveniles, teenagers never let it get to this point. One of her

friends at Tavares High told her school resource deputy about one guy Hatcher paid, and that's when the investigation got going. You're hearing our friends at WKMG. That was News 6 reporter Jerry Askins. We're talking about help. She tried to have both her parents murdered, and we're talking about helping her. I want her to get all the help she can behind bars. And interesting, this girl's parents, Alyssa Hatcher's parents,

they are the ones asking for charges to be pressed against their daughter. According to court documents, the victims, the parents of Alyssa Hatcher, advise of their intent to prosecute for solicitation of murder. And just so you know, solicitation of murder carries 30 to life

in that jurisdiction. The mother, Tammy Hatcher Scheller, is a nurse and a senior records clerk for the Florida Department of Health. The stepfather, Michael Scheller, is a lieutenant with the Claremont Police Department. That's about an hour away from their home in Umatilla, Florida. The two have been married since 2014. He has been a cop since 1988. So it's a relatively, was it a relatively new relationship? We're getting that 2014 wedding date according to the husband, the stepfather, Mike Scheller's Facebook.

We understand that there had never been any problems reported within the home. We also know that this teenager, Alyssa Hatcher, was born in North Carolina. They moved to Florida where she was a senior at Umatilla High School. And a classmate describes her as being sweet, caring, always willing to help someone else. So what went wrong? At this point, though, to Brad Micklin, trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group in New Jersey, it's no longer the parents prosecuting. It is now the state. If the parents wanted to drop charges, it would still be up to the prosecutor to make that decision. Absolutely. Oftentimes, victims of many different crimes for many reasons don't want the offender to be tried. And this would be one of those circumstances. But on the

flip side, you want to be protected. And the only way to do that is to have a criminal prosecution against it. Now, I've been looking at her Instagram profile. Shows her on the cheer squad at Umatilla High. She played junior varsity soccer. She has conflicting captions. On one, under her picture, it says ruthless. In another, she writes, no beauty shines brighter than a good heart in another she writes rock bottom became the solid foundation on which i rebuilt my life why are you

rebuilding your life at age 17 um i don't know maybe that's just the teen drama coming out. But her social media doesn't tell me a whole lot more. I see pictures of her in her prom outfit. Right now, she's charged with two counts of criminal solicitation of murder and also facing theft charges. You know what? Another thing is jumping out at me to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author, is that apparently she used $100 of that to buy cocaine. What effect would that have on her decision-making process? A tremendous effect.

And the fact that she had an awareness of it at 17, she went out and bought or allegedly attempted to buy $100 worth of coke, that would give us an indication that she probably bought what's referred to on the street as an eight ball of cocaine, which is about three grams. And if the folks at home want to know what that's like, just take some cornstarch or some baby powder, cup your hand, and pour it into the center and kind of level it off. That's about three grams of cocaine.

And that would be enough to certainly stimulate her to a great degree. Maybe she's thrown into you know depression she has to have this in order to or agitate her or agitate her yeah and it can send it can send the user into like a state of of euphoria it also desensitizes people uh so that they don't have an awareness of when they're impacting other people's lives and plus not to mention it's very lethal uh you know, somebody using cocaine over a protracted period of time, they can die of heart disease or certainly hypertensive related diseases. She's 17. I don't think she's going to have a heart attack.

But I want to follow up on something you said. Yes, she may have been angry at her mom or dad. Maybe she didn't want to move, although she seems to have, you know, adjusted really well in Umatilla. Maybe she hates a stepdad. I don't know. But, yes, you can be agitated once. But, Brad Micklin, you're the trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group. Was she still agitated when she tried to get a second hit man? I mean, and also, even if she was agitated using cocaine,

the voluntary consumption of drugs or alcohol is almost never a defense in criminal law. Or everybody over in the jail right now would go, oh, yeah, I was drunk when I did that, so I'm walking out of here. That's not going to happen, Brad. I agree. When I was listening to Joseph Scott, the thing I kept saying to myself, as much as I like to defend people, is she bought the drugs one time, but she paid two different people in two different times to commit the murder. So I'm not sure how much drugs really played a part here.

And guys, yes, Brad Micklin is a defense lawyer. He's a trial lawyer with the Micklin Law Group. But if you want to win a case, if you believe in your case, you don't just prepare your case. You anticipate what the other side is going to do. It's like Reagan's old Star Wars program. We're going to shoot down what the Russians shoot at us first

before it gets here. That's what you do. You figure out what's the other side going to say, and then you get ready to shoot it down before it even happens. That's what he's talking about. Brad, bottom line, I'm interpreting what you're saying is, yeah, the jury might be able to explain it away one time, but she wasn't still on the same cocaine high when she tried to hire the next hitman.

Right. I think if she's tried as an adult and gets a jury, I think she's just going to go for sympathy, which is the only reason, the only benefit you get from being tried as an adult. She's going to go young, confused, drug problem, sympathetic decision. It's the only thing that gets her out of this. Okay, so if you are defending this case, Brad Micklin, and you've got to go in front of an adult jury, what's your defense? I mean, she confessed. You've got the boyfriend who, by the way, I'm going to circle back to Dr. Jolie Silva on this, a clinical forensic psychologist.

So often we see women led around by the nose by a bad guy. They fall in with them. They seem like they're under a trance. They'll do whatever he wants them to do. Because here we see, allegedly, a boyfriend, a BF, says he saw her at a drug location. Well, what's he doing there? All right? So it's hard for me to believe he didn't have some influence over her. No, that's a very good point. I know that the boyfriend pretty readily told police what was going on.

If he was at the drug house too. I mean, she's familiar with a drug house. She's going to a drug house. Clearly there's some kind of substance abuse issue going on. Whether or not he was influencing her, it's very, very possible. Whether or not he was influencing her to kill her parents is another story.

But, you know, back to what everyone else was saying just about the substance use. I agree with, with everybody else who is saying that because it was premeditated, it happened multiple times and there was, let me get on PayPal and do this. It just doesn't, it, it just doesn't really add up that, that cocaine is, was the influencer here. Maybe the boyfriend had something to do with it. Maybe the boyfriend hated the stepfather. Who knows?

It could be a factor in it, in the big picture. It could be one factor. You know, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, this idea that somehow the boyfriend played a role in this, none of that, that has not come up at all in the facts. In fact, the boyfriend blabbed to the cops that he saw her there and that she wanted to kill her parents. So I don't believe he is entangled in this in any way. And also that theory that the boyfriend made her do it or encouraged her to do it. Coercion under the law means you basically have to have a gun at your head,

locked and loaded, before coercion will work in front of a jury. Mind control is not going to do it. So Levi Page, there's been no suggestion anyone else is involved other than the teen cheerleader, soccer player, straight-A student, Alyssa Hatcher. You're correct, Nancy. Her boyfriend was with her at what he said was a known drug house. So that shows you that he's not on the up and up, Nancy. And I just want to go back to the fact that people are saying she's a cheerleader, straight-A student.

She played soccer. But there was, I read a post on Facebook by her cheer coach who was shocked by this. And then there were people in the comments saying, well, this is not shocking if you knew her. So apparently she had a bit of a reputation in this community. Hey, hey, hey, Levi Page. Levi, Levi. My dear, sweet Levi, don't take too much to heart

what one varsity cheerleader says about another one. Okay, just know that going forward. Well, it also goes back that up. Her parents automatically assumed that she was the one that stole the debit card. And they're the ones that are pushing for charges to be filed. And as Jackie had mentioned, the debit card was in a locked area with the mother. Has she stolen from them before? That's going to be interesting to see because she didn't have a job that we know of. She was using drugs. Did she steal repeatedly to buy drugs? We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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