Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen freshman at posh all girls college stabbed dead, Perp released?

Episode Date: December 16, 2019

18-year-old Barnard College freshman Tessa Majors is ambushed New York’s Morningside Park, then stabbed to death. Police arrest a 13-year-old boy but subsequently release him, citing lack of evidence.Who killed Tessa? Was the perp released?Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: Ashley Willcott: Judge and trial attorney, anchor at Court TV, Cloyd Steiger: 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, & author of "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer: Gary Gene Grant" Dr. Bethany Marshall: Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills Dr. Michelle Dupre: South Carolina Medical Examiner & Author of “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” Alexis Tereschuk: Investigative Reporter Radaronline.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. What happened to this teen girl from Virginia? Her parents work like dogs to send her to Barnard and she's dead. What? She is a teen girl that goes away to try to give her opportunities in life that maybe her family didn't have. And now she's dead. Minding her own business. The world before her, a freshman from Virginia goes to Bernard. I want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Police say the 18-year-old was stabbed repeatedly on the stairs

behind us in Morningside Park. We saw a line of evidence placards as this victim apparently made her way up the steps to try to get to the security booth for help. But by the time a security guard found her, it was too late. Police say Majors collapsed at this college security booth after the attack, but the guard was out making rounds. By the time security returned and called 911, it was too late. What happened to this teen girl from Virginia? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, anchor, Court TV. She's at ashleyWilcott.com. Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide, author, Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. Well, I haven't forgotten him. You can find him at CloydSteiger.com. Renowned psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills,

Dr. Bethany Marshall at DrBethanyMarshall.com, South Carolina medical examiner and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Michelle Dupree. Right now, to investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com, Alexis Tereska. Alexis, you have baby Max. I have the twins. It's going to be over my cold, dead body that something happens to them these parents worked their whole life thinking they're helping their little girl tessa majors by sending her to bernard and this i i i just can't take it in alexis what happened? You know what? Let me get calmed down. Let me just start

with the timeline where every good prosecution starts. What happened? It was about 5.30 at night. Tessa, who is just 18, so it's December, she started college in August. She moved to New York City in August. She has been there just a few months getting ready to start finals in her freshman year. Okay. Sorry, Alexis. I'm sorry. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I need to shrink. I really do. Um, I just, when I went to school, you know, my, my, my sleeping bag to use as a bed cover and getting my trunk in my dorm. And I remember my parents driving off and I was on my own. But we never thought something like this could happen. Those parents must just be. I don't think I could get up off the bed, Dr. Bethany. Nancy, it's hard enough to let your child go to

college, to buy the comforters, buy the pillows, get them all set up in their dorm room, get a poster board so they can put up notes and teach them what a syllabus is. I mean, that separation is difficult enough because when you send your child to school, it's the beginning of a whole new phase of their life. But not only that, it's full of hopes and dreams that they're going to get a degree, that they're going to make friends, they're going to develop and blossom as an individual. You are literally sending them off to the next most beautiful, wonderful phase of their life. And then to have it cut short. And not only that, you've entrusted your child to a college, to a community, and to know that there are perpetrators in that community and that your child's life has been cut short, not only cut short, but in such a brutal way, what these parents are going

through. And these are very sophisticated parents. You know, the dad is a professor and a novelist, has written many novels. This is not a shabby family. This family is high-class, loving, and they lost their shining jewel. Can I tell you something else? Can I tell you something else? I mean, I was projecting because when I went away to college, like my brother and sister, neither of my parents finished college.

And my mom never even got to go but my dad went briefly in accounting and when the three of us came he just could not work full-time for the railroad and finish college so it was basically us or him and he picked us do you know alexis teres chuck that tuition just tuition is 50,000 394 just tuition okay alexis teres i mean but you think for that amount of money your child would be safe i'm just putting that out there back to to the timeline. Sorry, Alexis. So she goes over to the park, Morningside Park. It is about 5.30 at night. So it is dark, but it is not late. And every other student that has spoken out since this happened said,

we would have done the same thing. This was not the middle of the night, between 5.30 and 7 p.m. at night. She goes to the park. All of a sudden, a group of males approaches her. The police have said what happened is they tried to rob her. They tried to take her money. They tried to take her phone. They tried to take her purse. She resisted. What the police have then said is that one of the males grabbed her, put her in a chokehold. She fought back. The police said she actually bit one of the men on his finger.

Then she wouldn't give her stuff up. The three, they haven't quite identified. They say three, but there may be more. There may be less Males One of them then took a knife And stabbed her They sliced her chin And they stabbed her under the arm

Now you might think Under the arm, okay You know what this knife did? It went in and it pierced her heart Oh no, oh no Oh Dr. Michelle Dupree South Carolina Medical examiner.

So explain to me how you get stabbed under the arm and it goes into your heart. Well, Nancy, obviously it's the angle that the knife goes in, and it also depends on the depth. One of the problems with something like this is it doesn't have to go in very far. Your heart is enclosed in a sack, if you will. And once the heart is actually pure, the blood can fill up into that heart. And even if your heart isn't that badly damaged, because there's so much blood in there and it's closed, it won't allow your heart to pump. And you will die because of that. I bet that's what happened.

Oh, my stars. Poor little Tessa. Dying there, alone. Of course, her perps run away and leave her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tessa Majors, just 18 years old, murdered at the park Wednesday night during exams week. She was just a freshman at Barnard in her first semester. It's really painful. I walk through that park on my way home every day. Police believe a group attacked Tessa on the park steps Wednesday night, stabbing her multiple times.

She was discovered by a security guard and died soon after. Today, police spent the morning in the park pond looking for evidence. Police flyers are all over asking for information. The murder spreading shock and fear, not just to students, but to the neighborhood. I can't imagine the loss to the family. That something would also happen so close to so much protection is also just unnerving. So I think mostly it just really touched us deeply. Just this person, this woman, she had her life ahead of her.

Tessa's family in a statement said in part, we are devastated by the senseless loss of our beautiful and talented Tess. We are thankful for the incredible outpouring of love and support we have received from across the country. Police here at the park adding patrols as there are plans already in the works for adding more lighting here as well. You were hearing our friends there at News 4 in New York. That was Ray Valeta talking. Why do they always add lights and patrol people after somebody is murdered? I mean, no offense to you, Floyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide. But this is around colleges, around colleges like NYU where I went.

Then you've got this posh all-girls college. Why are they adding lights and patrols now? That's a day late and a dollar short. Yeah, you know, that's always the case with these things, you know, the close of the barn door after the horse is out. These tragedies just happen. You know, you have these groups of young men who get together and form like a wolf pack mentality and victimize people. Apparently, it's alleged that these people have done similar things before, obviously

not rising to the level of murder, but it was just a recipe for disaster that's been adding up. And then again, you have a dark area. Floyd, you know what? You just reminded me of a triple homicide I prosecuted. And I'd seen it before, but not to that degree. For a long time, it was called wilding, where a pack, usually young teens, get together. And I used to say all the time, actually, Wilcott, you're perfect for this question.

Judge, trial lawyer, Anchor Court TV. Ashley, I would always say sometimes I'm more concerned or afraid of juvenile perps because they have not developed any real conscience yet. They don't get the gravity of their actions. And I remember that triple homicide I had, and there was a gang of teens all together, and they went berserk. And in that case, Ashley, I remember one crime scene photo, and I saw it myself at the crime scene at about 4 o'clock in the morning. Blood was literally running down a gutter, literally running down a gutter. There was so much blood, and one of the victims had tried to get away and tried to jump over a fence, and they shot him,

and he just hung on that chain-link fence, and his blood dripped down in a gutter, and there was so much, it started running down the gutter. And it was a pack of juveniles that, together, the group dynamic goes haywire. Yeah, I agree with you, Nancy. So part of what it's called when we call it a positive environment, like at school when a kid does something kind of dumb or that they shouldn't do, it's more called peer pressure. The problem is when it starts to become criminal, their executive functioning has not fully developed. And so you're right.

They don't have the rational thought. They don't have the consciousness to say, wait a minute, this is against the law. Or if I do this, I'm going to end up arrested. Or morally, this is wrong because. So all of those things are developed. You get that with the peer pressure and along with one bad apple who thinks, so let's go do this or rob this person or commit this crime. Yes, the rest can fall into it. And I know you want in Dr. Bethany Marshall, but I want you to hear this 911 call. A 13-year-old suspect appeared in court today,

and the detective who interviewed him shared this story. He says they came to this park to rob someone following a man inside, but the suspect says he watched his two friends stab and choke Tessa Majors. We did see my wife stab at this time. Brush the bus. Shortly after Tessa Majors was stabbed to death during a struggle on V stairs, police had their sights on potential suspects, eyewitnesses seeing individuals fleeing the park. Looking for one male wearing a green jacket, unknown race, face was covered. That male was brought in for questioning Thursday when police recognized his clothing. He had a knife with him at the time of his arrest. The 13-year-old,

who is being charged as a juvenile, was questioned by police in the presence of his uncle. CBS News has learned he confessed to the robbery and said he was involved in the murder, implicating two others in the crime. One brought in for questioning, the other still at large. Man, I just felt like I was drinking from the fire hydrant with all that knowledge. I got a lot of leads to go on. That's CBS News reporter Errol Barnett. So Alexis Tereschuk, I learned a lot. Number one, their faces were covered.

They knew they were doing something wrong. They weren't just strolling through the park and whoops, one of them suddenly whipped out a knife. Oh, no, they knew to cover their faces. Number two, I've actually had a defendant come into court, and he was on bond, Alexis. Should have known better. He came in wearing the same red tracksuit that the eyewitness said the perp did the murder. I'm like, I'm so happy. Arrest him right now in those clothes. I want those clothes, but let's let him wear those clothes the first day of trial, jackass.

So naturally, he got convicted. Here we go. Apparently, this one wearing the same clothes he was wearing at the time, Alexis. What? What? That is what the police have said. They said that the eyewitnesses had seen a green jacket and that they found this young boy and that he was still wearing the same jacket. So he was arrested. Both his uncle and his aunt were with him after the arrest. They were with him when he spoke with police, and then according to police, he confessed that he was part of Tessa's murder,

but that he claims he did not stab her. Of course, of course. He looked the other way at the time of the stabbing. Guys, we're talking about a beautiful 18 year old girl tessa majors going to a very exclusive all girls school now we are learning a 13 year old suspect had chased and attacked another young girl at a deli just days before the murder. But let me focus on what has happened to this girl, 18-year-old Tessa. She was in Manhattan's Morningside Park, and we know that a group of males came up to her,

started struggling with her, trying to rob her, or so they say, for all I know, they were trying to rape her. Why should I take their word for it? She fights back. They stab her and take off running. Slain college student Tessa Majors was there in Manhattan Park, very close to her school, fatally stabbed by a group of teens suspected in another botched robbery. And we're not just making this up.

This is from the head of the NYPD sergeant's union. Ashley Wilcott, according to the head of the police sergeant's union, this same 13-year-old perp chased down a girl at a deli a few days before. If he had been arrested then, Tessa would still be alive. Well, that's right. In terms of this teen's involvement, there were still other individuals involved. So I don't know that it may not have happened. But I'm going to say this, and this is the problem whenever you have crimes committed, especially by juveniles. They're not sometimes perceived as such a danger to society. And so when juveniles are involved, I unfortunately sometimes see that they're not necessarily arrested as swiftly. Or in the alternative, once they're arrested, they get back out.

The reality is when you have someone like this with the intent that's planning these things and planning robberies, you've got a danger to society. Well, again, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills, sorry, Dr. Bethany, that we don't have your usual litany of people aimlessly wandering up and down Rodeo Drive, as they say, rodeo out there, looking in shop windows. You know, I remember when we lived out there for Dancing with the Stars, I looked through the window, thank the Lord I didn't go in. There was a pair of $1,100 tennis shoes that my son saw.

I nearly fell. They were like gold lame or something. I mean, anyway, let's get in reality, Dr. Bethany Marshall, when teens, especially, and these really tweens, one of them 13 years old, allegedly are together. I don't know what takes over. These guys are like packs of wolves. It's true, Nancy. It's like the boys that attacked Piggy in Lord of the Flies. Do you remember that novel? Anyway, Ashley Wilcott made the comment about the prefrontal cortex of the executive functioning not being intact. While that is true, even a six-year-old knows not to hit another child

and knows not to steal. So they do know right from wrong. They had planned this for some time. Shockingly, as the 14-year-olds were starting to stab Tessa, the knife fell and the 13-year-old picked it back up and urged them. What that tells me, and we know about these packs of boys, is usually there is one ringleader who is much more disturbed, much more sociopathic, who brings the other boys along, eggs them on. And it's like they begin to develop this obsessional belief, as we see in gangs, that if they kill or hurt or maim another person, that they will have some credibility with each other. And there's an excitement that builds and builds. I had a 14-year-old brought to my practice last week that had the same mentality. And he was on Rodeo Drive, trolling up and down with a group of boys.

They picked on one young 14-year-old, started beating him up. Fortunately, a bystander started filming it and then turned it into the police. Pretty soon it went viral. It was all over Facebook. And the boys were convicted. So that was good. So cameras often, you know, our cell phone cameras often play an important role in these things. Unfortunately, poor Tessa Majors, this wonderful freshman college student, was in a park between 530 and 6 at night. So who knew there would be this wild pack of boys roaming around? around. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Police say the 18-year-old freshman at Barnard College

was attacked by a group just minutes from campus Wednesday night as she walked through the park. During the struggle, one of these individuals pulled out a knife and stabbed our our victim several times. She was able to stagger her way up to the surface side of Morningside Street, where she was observed by one of the school security guards. He called 911. New York City leaders promised swift action. I am absolutely confident that any individuals involved in this terrible, heinous attack will be brought to justice. The brazen crime rattling nerves among students.

The Virginia native played in a band and interned for the Augusta Free Press. To me, the greatest tragedy here is that the world won't get to see what she would have done. Through a podcast, we get a glimpse of her enthusiasm about starting college. All girls school. I'm really excited about that. A promising life ending too soon as a family prepares to say goodbye. I can hardly take that in. You were just hearing our friends at NBC today. That was Kathy Park and also Chris Graham at Augusta Free Press. So many people just stunned and numb at the murder of a teen girl, Tessa Majors. Guys, her brutal murder allegedly committed by tweens 13 and 14. But let me understand something, Alexis Tereszczuk,

investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. Is it true one has been released? Yes. They have arrested one boy. He is 13 years old. They arrested another boy who was 14 years old, but the police decided that they did not have enough to charge him with yet. Yet. The 13-year-old who has confessed is still in jail. And in fact, he is being held without bail. He cannot bail out. And he has a court date coming up tomorrow. Okay. Well, can't he point out the other perps? He has. He has absolutely told the police everything he knows. He's told them everything. They've arrested one of the people that he said was with him. They brought that child as 14 years old, but they let the 14-year-old go. They said they didn't have enough to charge him, and they want to make sure they do, so they let him go. And then there's

a third person, and they have not found him and have not brought him in yet. Well, I would advise, agree or disagree, Cloyd Steiger, they go straight to his mother's house. Even grown men, the minute they bond out, they run home and hide under the bed at mommy's. I mean, all you got to do is sit at their front porch and wait for him to show up, Cloyd. Yeah, I'm sure that's right. And I think the problem with holding the other kid, and I'm sure Ashley Wilcott will confirm this, is that you can't charge somebody based only on the code of evidence statement. So they have to have corroborating evidence, probably waiting for some lab tests, which hopefully will expedite to get this done. But yeah. Yeah. You know what? I'm glad you brought

that up, Cloyd. To Dr. Michelle Dupree, they had to get that information that she bit one of the perps from somebody. She's got to have some DNA on her teeth. That must be really hard to get DNA off your teeth because doesn't your saliva destroy the DNA? No, Nancy, it won't be that difficult to get it off the teeth, actually. They'll find her DNA, of course, as you would expect, but when they find foreign DNA, they can match it to his. Guys, we are talking about the death

of a beautiful teen girl who has just gone away to college. Take a listen to our friends at ABC News. This is Ariel Reshef. Tonight, a 13-year-old suspect arrested in the chilling murder of Barnard College freshman Tessa Majors. It is an absolute tragedy. Those responsible, however many there may be, will be brought to justice. Police say the teen is not the killer, but was found with the murder weapon, a knife,

and made comments linking him to the grisly crime. He's now charged with murder, robbery, and weapons possession. His statements to detectives also implicating two additional suspects, one of them a 14-year-old interviewed by police, the other still at large. There's going to be an 80-female white man at this time. Majors walking through the park just a block from her school early Wednesday evening when authorities say a group of suspects

demanded money before fatally stabbing the 18-year-old student multiple times. What's the script on the park? I know the script on the probe? I don't understand. Police now say the 13-year-old suspect in custody was seen on grainy surveillance video from the park. Ah, so we have surveillance video as well. Ashley Wolcott, I mean, in my mind, that's a prosecutor's dream. It is.

And the question I have is, did that surveillance video only have the 13-year-old on it who's been arrested and confessed? Or rather, did it have the other two individuals, one of whom has been let go? Because I do agree, yes, there needs to be corroborating evidence, but that would certainly do it. Thank goodness for surveillance tape. And Nancy, while I have the chance, I have to say, here's what really disturbs me as a juvenile court judge. These three individuals did not, Lord of the Flies, all of a sudden say, let's commit a robbery and end up stabbing and killing an innocent victim. But rather, hey, let's plan robberies, get involved in robberies. It was very planned. It's premeditated. It's not. And it was a random victim. It could have been you. It could have been me. It could have been our children. It could have been anyone. So that adds to

the heinousness of the crime for me. What we are learning is that this 13-year-old pointed out friends, pointed out friends that he says was with him at the time they ganged up on this teen girl and murdered her. They went to the park with the intent of robbing. And whether you think they were in a frenzy or they were out of their minds, let me tell you something. That's called a felony murder. When you are in the commission of a felony, say, let's just say Jackie and I decide to rob a bank. It's Jackie's idea, of course. So we go in. I say, Jackie, no weapons. Just get the money and leave. Can you do that? She says, oh, yeah.

I get in there. I get a bag full of money. And what does she do? Whip out a Glock and unload. She kills somebody. Guess what? I'm going to jail for felony murder. Thanks, Jackie.

You couldn't just be happy with the money. Because a death occurred in the commission of a felony. Take a listen to what we know from NBC Today. This is Kathy Park about what the 13-year-old perp said. New details in the fatal stabbing of New York College student Tessa Majors. Our New York station WNBC reporting that in a court hearing on Friday, New York City police detectives testified that the 13-year-old suspect told them he watched his two friends grab Tessa Majors in Morningside Park, put her in a chokehold and remove items from her pockets. Then the boy told detectives he watched as his friend slashed the young woman with a knife and saw feathers from the stuffing of her coat come flying out.

The 13-year-old is charged as a juvenile with second-degree murder, robbery, and a weapons charge. Due to his age, NBC News is not naming the suspect. Officials also questioning a 14-year-old in connection with the killing. Guys, we are bringing you the latest in the murder of a teen girl, a Barnard College student, dead at the hands of a pack of wolves, tweens, out of control. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The 13-year-old suspect has been charged with second-degree murder. The NYPD says they were canvassing an area near the crime scene when they saw this suspect wearing clothing similar to that of suspects from the park. Now, this teen had possession of a knife and admitted to detectives

that he and two friends robbed Tessa Majors and stabbed her. I think that this is just kind of a shock. Barnard College students were emotional Thursday after news emerged their classmate freshman Tessa Majors had been killed in a park near campus. It could have been anyone and it's just so unfortunate that it happened to someone who was so young. Just before 7 p.m. Wednesday police say Majors was stabbed several times by one to three people after a struggle in the park. She staggered up these steps into the street where a school security guard eventually saw her and called 911. She later died at the hospital.

You're hearing our friends at CBS News. That was Errol Barnett. It's my understanding to Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com, that she managed to crawl to a security station. But of course, nobody was there and she died. Is that right, Alexis? So she did. She crawled up the stairs. And if you know the area, it's super steep, these stone stairs. I mean, there are at least 50 of them, I would say. And she crawled all the way to the top. Now, the original report was that there was not a guard there. The guard was out on rounds and came back about 30 minutes later and found her. But the police have said that the guard was there at the

time when she crawled to the top of the steps, called 911 immediately. And then she was taken to the hospital where she died at the hospital. To Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, anchor at Court TV, and you can find her at ashywilcott.com. Her murder, we believe, was committed by tweens 13 and 14 years old. I believe they will be charged as adults. What do you say, Ashley? Oh, I completely agree with you. So, you know, the seven deadly sins, so to speak, and the murder, ag assault, rape with intent to kill, those things are all when juveniles can be charged as adults and are

charged as adults and so i would expect that to happen in this case given the fact it was a felony murder as you stated they had the intent to rob and then kill this young woman and to cloyd steiger seattle pd homicide detective and author seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. Now that one tween is in custody, I would expect the case to fall like dominoes. How close do you believe police are to catching Tess's other two killers? Oh, I believe they're very close. And you're right. That's the whole thing.

Once that first domino falls, they just fall into place. They probably know who both the other two are. They just are waiting to get their their evidence lined up. And, you know, I actually my first murder I ever investigated in my life back in 1994. Kids about this age and they were all tried as adults. And it's just that, again, that wolfpack mentality, the kid that they have in custody. When he chased that girl into the little store a week before, he didn't just chase her in. She was on the floor, and he was kicking her on the floor. That shows a

total lack of empathy in what we're dealing with. Wait a minute, Cloyd Steiger. Tell me that again about him kicking the little girl while she's on the floor. What of a deli? I don't know. It was a young woman, not a little girl, but he had chased somebody into that deli to rob her. And the reports I read is that the girl was on the floor and that the same 13-year-old was kicking her while she was laying on the floor and then fled before police got there. Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me. How does a 13-year-old, and I'm not proud, but I'm also not embarrassed of prosecuting one of the youngest murderers in the state of Georgia. He was 13, broke into a pawn shop with two others, and gunned everybody down for a handful of gold chains, dope ropes, left, oh, how many dead?

One or two dead, and one forever in a wheelchair with a colostomy bag. All right. What can you do with that besides prosecute it for murder? I mean, there's just no other alternative. How are people so evil? You know what? I don't know that they are evil, Dr. Bethany. Maybe they just don't feel anything.

Maybe they're like a wolf. It'll rip your throat out and doesn't realize it did anything at all. It means nothing. You know, when you work with juveniles, you begin to realize how complex these cases are. There's often a lack of parental supervision, abuse in the home, perhaps the beginnings of a sociopathic personality disorder, bipolar disorder, all kinds of things can be going on in this child's life. And we have no idea what those factors are. For sure, one of the things that stands out is that when he was brought into the police for questioning, he was accompanied by an aunt and uncle. And that makes me wonder, why an aunt and uncle? Why no parents? Does he not have parents? Is there no parental supervision? Certainly, the two boys he potentially romanced, seduced, or obsessionally

coerced into committing the crime with him were well aware that this was about to happen. So those two boys as well, what was happening with them? They had plenty of opportunity to tell their parents to go to the police, so was there no parental supervision there? I err on the side with this 13-year-old that this was the beginnings of a sociopathic personality disorder, that it was a very complex picture, that perhaps some bipolar or some psychiatric illness that causes enormous bursts of energy. And also, even though he's 13 years old, we cannot rule out drug abuse. I have an adult patient in my practice who's a multimillionaire plumber, owns a plumbing business. He was in federal prison for seven years,

gangbanger. He told me he broke into people's houses, threatened to kill a police officer, hit old ladies over the head, grabbed their purses. He was on PCP all throughout his adolescence. He is now super Christian, has four kids, goes to Catholic church every Sunday, is afraid to go into a bathroom by himself because he's afraid that he'll be framed for something he did not do. So you can be the worst of the worst and also redeem yourself. That's how complex these situations are. Bethany, maybe you don't understand me.

I'm all for forgiveness and redemption while you're in jail you can be forgiven you can redeem yourself and start all over while you are in jail and we already know that these uh want this one juvenile is charged with felony second degree murder because that's felony murder robbery possession of a weapon alexis tercha, why are they dredging a pond? Are they trying to find the murder weapon? They are. They have said that they were not sure that the knife, there was, I believe, a knife found at the scene

and that the boy had a knife, but they are not sure that either of those knives were connected to the actual, it was the one that actually stabbed her. So yes, they are trying to find the murder weapon. And may I ask, why are people saying that she was in the park trying to buy pot? Who's saying that? The 13-year rant about trying to say that the marijuana legalization laws are wrong. And if the laws had were stronger than she would have been afraid to have tried to go by pot. And it

was really just victim shaming. And it's really just a reprehensible statement. Another thing, whose word are they taking for that? The 13-year-old killers? I mean, and another thing, there's a theory that it could help or hurt the investigation. Cloyd Steiger had dragged the victim through the mud, claiming she was buying pot. I don't think it would help or hurt. Actually, I don't know that I even believe it. And even if it is true, I don't care. She is a teen girl, murdered Cloyd. How could it help or hurt the investigation? You're exactly right. It has no bearing either way. It doesn't matter. It didn't matter if she was going to buy heroin.

She still didn't deserve to get murdered, right? So that is really a moot point and I don't see any value one way or the other. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.