Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen Girl JILLIAN Shot Dead by CAREER CRIMINAL WALKING FREE

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Jillian Ludwig kicks off her freshman year at Nashville's Belmont University in her first weeks by settling into a routine that includes putting her musical talents to work and enjoying the great outdoors. Ludwig is walking on the track in Edgehill Community Memorial Gardens Park at 2:30 p.m. when gunshots ring out from across the street. Jillian Ludwig is not the intended target, but she is hit in the head with a stray bullet. Nobody else is on the track, and Ludwig suffers for nearly an hour before she is found on the ground with a gunshot wound to the head. She is transported to the Vanderbilt University Medical Center in very critical condition. As Jillian Ludwig fights for her life in Vanderbilt University Medical Center, police arrest 29-year-old Shaquille Taylor. Surveillance video and witness statements point to Taylor as the shooter. Video shows Ludwig falling as Taylor shoots at a car. He's charged with aggravated assault, evidence tampering, and failure to appear on a different felony charge.  Taylor is someone well-known to Nashville's law enforcement community. His record stretches back more than a decade. His latest arrest was on September 21. Taylor was driving a Ford F-150 pickup truck that had been carjacked by two men wearing ski masks on September 16.  Taylor did not admit to being involved in the carjacking in any way but he was charged with felony auto theft and was released on a bond.  Taylor was due in court just days before the shooting of Jillian Ludwig but he failed to show up. Despite multiple arrests, Taylor had been released from custody after three court-appointed psychologists deemed him incompetent to stand trial, and also found he didn't pose an imminent threat to himself or others. According to court records, Shaquille Taylor has an intellectual disability and language impairment,  With that determination, it means he isn't able to participate in a trial.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Geri Wainwright -  Great Aunt of Jillian Ludwig  Eileen Bearisto Mahoney- Community member Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States;" Twitter: @MatthewTMangino Dr. Shari Schwartz– Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” Twitter: @TrialDoc Andy Kahan  - Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston Marissa Sulek - Reporter for WSMV; Instagram: @marissasulek, X: @marissa_sulek, Facebook: @Marissa Sulek WSMV  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Furious parents, angry, full of grief, of mourning, of red-hot anger. Why? Because their teen girl, absolutely stunning with a loving heart, musically so talented, their teen daughter Jillian is dead. Dead from a stray bullet fired by a career criminal. This little girl out just walking in a park on a track minding her own business. She's dead. Dead at the hands of a career criminal that should have been behind bars. How many more times are we going to stand by and let this happen in our great country? How many more times will politicians get away with blah, blah, blah, trying to explain why yet another innocent person is dead because the justice system failed because of overcrowding in jails,

because of incompetence of letting somebody walk that should have been doing hard jail time, or at least in a facility. How can you as a judge, as a prosecutor, as a defense attorney with a good conscience, in good conscience, let somebody walk out that courthouse door knowing they are a threat to others and doing nothing. If I had my way, which of course I don't, they'd all be behind bars along with the killer. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories on Sirius XM 111. What happened? Listen.

Enjoying the beautiful weather in Nashville, Jillian Ludwig is walking on the track in Edge Hill Community Memorial Gardens Park at 2 30 in the afternoon when gunshots ring out across the street from the park. Not the intended target. She is hit in the head with a stray bullet and falls to the ground. Nobody else is on the track. Jillian Ludwig suffers for nearly an hour before she is found. A passerby finds Ludwig and calls for help at 3 30 and she's transported to Vanderbilt University Medical Center in very critical condition. All right there. I want to find out everything. Joining me in addition to family and friends of Jillian's family, first to Marissa Sulik, joining us out of Nashville with WSMV. Marissa, thank you for being with us. First of all, this is in broad daylight at 2.30

in the afternoon. 2.30 in the afternoon. Yep, you're right, Nancy. She was out for a run, a walk. I mean, I'm a runner too. I ran past that park and this just happened. She was laying there for an hour before that passerby waved police down. And we've heard from police that they actually, someone at the precinct, which is right by that park as well, heard a bullet. They heard a gunshot and someone went to go check it out, didn't find anything. And it took a whole hour for finally that passerby to wave someone down. So she lies there on this track for nearly an hour before anyone realizes she's been shot. To Jerry Wainwright, a special guest joining us, great aunt of Jillian Ludwig, that's got to torture the mom and dad so much, knowing their daughter laid there and suffered before anyone even found her.

It does. It does. I have to say that we have all drawn some comfort from the fact that Jillian likely never saw it coming. She had her AirPods on and I'm sure she didn't hear the shot ring out. I know I've heard that there were six. I don't know if the first bullet hit her or the fourth, but regardless, I think the element of surprise allows us to find some comfort in that, to know that she wasn't terrified or scared or attacked or that for her, it was unexpected. And I believe from what I understand that she was unconscious from the moment she was hit and unaware. And that is reassuring somehow. That you're right, because to Dr. Sherry Schwartz

joining us, forensic psychologist specializing in victim advocacy and criminal cases, you can find her at panthermitigation.com. She is the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect, Issues in Legal Psychology. Dr. Sherry, I mean, to this day, I like to tell myself my fiance Keith didn't feel anything, didn't know anything because he was shot five times in the head, the neck, the back. But he was actually alive, still alive when his body, when he was transported to the hospital. He was alive when he got there. If I really look at it in the cold light of day, he probably did feel much of what happened to him. You know, Nancy, I'm so sorry that that happened to you and sorry to Jillian Ludwig's family.

The thing about what we know about what victims go through is that torture. And look how many years ago that you went through this and you still think about it. This is the kind of deep, complex trauma that quite literally can torture victims and their loved ones. It is unconscionable that this happened and that the laws in place didn't protect Jillian and that her family has to suffer this tremendous loss. I just hate the road they're going down. It's a road that's going to last the rest of their lives because, you know, Dr. Sherry Swartz, you know what, let me throw this to Andy Kahn joining me, a longtime colleague and now friend, Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers

of Houston. Andy, a lot of times, even now, and now I'm married to David I have the twins that are my number one concern on this earth anyway but I still wake up and I think sometimes in the very early morning around five o'clock when I normally wake up I wake up thinking about Keith slumped over in that truck having been shot so many times and it's almost as if I'm feeling what he felt like did it feel like just he got hit in the head when he fell over did he realize what happened to him was he aware when paramedics put him on a gurney did he try to move his arms and legs and he couldn't did it hurt I mean this to this day and I legs and he couldn't? Did it hurt? I mean, to this day, and I guess that means I was dreaming about it because I'm thinking about it as I wake up.

And then when I look at the twins, I think, will anything happen to them today? Will they be safe? You know, it lasts a lifetime, Andy, as you know. You know, as a board member of the Houston Chapter of Parents of Murdered Children, and I've been working and assisting homicide survivors now for over 30 years, you essentially, as you phrased it, you got a life sentence as well. This just doesn't go away. There is no such word like the media likes to use as closure. But for the Ludwig family, the grief is intensified because now you find out the background of the defendant who's now going to be charged with Jillian's murder.

And the reality is, and this is how I phrase it you're going to actually hear the word incompetent with the right usage. violent offender with a rap sheet going back to 2011 with multiple convictions involving a gun, and you put him right back in the same community knowing full well he's going to continue his criminal career. The state of Tennessee, from my perspective, is culpable and frankly, even more complicit in the murder of Jillian. This really ticks me off. Did you not just hear me say at the get-go, I think they should all be in jail with him? Oh, absolutely. I think there's an echo and that echo is Andy Kahn. But you're right.

How can you, in good conscience, I mean, Andy, after Keith's murder, I never discussed Keith's murder with anyone. I went through all my years of law school. I dropped out of school, went back to college to finish through two jobs before I made it to the DA's office. Do you know I was in the DA's office full 10 years in inner city Atlanta? I think I only confided to maybe two people the whole time I was there about what had happened to Keith. And do you know, every time I even got so much as a theft by receiving stolen vehicle, I would read the rap sheet and I would think with every case, is this guy going to get out and kill somebody? Is there any indication he's going to do that? Because if there is, he's going to jail for as long as I can keep him there.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I don't know how in good conscience you could send this guy back out the courthouse door and now Jillian, beautiful teen Jillian, is dead. Listen. As Jillian Ludwig fights for her life in Vanderbilt University Medical Center, police arrest 29-year-old Shaquille Taylor. According to a police affidavit, surveillance video and witness statements pointed to Taylor as the shooter. Video shows Ludwig falling as Taylor fires at a nearby car. Jillian Ludwig, the 18-year-old Belmont University freshman student died overnight. Ms. Wainwright is with us, Jerry Wainwright, the great-aunt of Jillian Ludwig. Ms. Wainwright, when did you learn Jillian had died?

I was there. I was at the hospital with her. I had flown down that morning on a 6 a.m. flight after I'd heard that she had been shot to be supportive of my family. So I knew in real time it was the worst day of my life, without exception. You know, we're talking about the shooter and the injustice of it all. And the reality is of this entire situation that the people that deemed him unfit to stand trial, yet not reaching whatever benchmark they have in place for involuntary commitment are most definitely at fault here. Because this man, in his most recent arrest, was for shooting a gun at a car with a woman and two babies in it um i'm not sure how anybody in their right mind could determine that he was not a danger to others when the decision was made to really did you say shooting at a car with a lady

and two children in the car yeah a three-year-old and a one-year-old were in that car. He was arrested for aggravated assault in April for shooting at a car with a woman and two babies in it. Marissa Sulick, is this true? Yeah, absolutely true. He was released based on the fact that he was incompetent and that he was not a danger to others. So they're saying, well, he's incompetent to stand trial. But that he was not a danger to others. So they're saying, well, he's incompetent to stand trial. But that he was not a danger to others. And he clearly, what do you have to do to prove that you're a danger to others

when you've shot at human beings in a car? So they don't send him to jail and they don't send him to a facility to treat him. Neither one. No. Nancy, in May of 23, that's when they released him from custody on the aggravated assault with the deadly one. He shot into the car. And here's where it gets even more infuriating, because four months later in September, he's charged with auto theft as part of a carjacking ring. So now you're charged with another felony, but you're deemed suitable

to be released on bail. After three months, you were just declared incompetent, yet you're released on bail. And of course, he doesn't show up the next day. Andy, you're preaching to the choir. Matthew Mangino, I hear you jumping in, but I want you to hear something else, Matthew. You're hearing Jerry Wainwright, who is the great aunt of Jillian, teen girl, Jillian Ludwig, who has now passed away. This is a heavily residential area. And this guy, the defendant, is shooting a gun at a car again. We've had a carjacking. We've had him shooting at a car with a lady and her two babies in the car. Now he shoots at a car again, and he ends up shooting this beautiful girl, Jillian.

Jerry, when did you learn she had been shot? Where were you? I was at work on Tuesday night. My niece called me at work and at first said that Jillian, because we didn't know, she said that she had been hurt and that she was in the hospital. And, you know, we rushed to get her to get her on a flight. And and then I texted my then my niece called me back and said, she's been shot in the head. She's been hysterical. She's been shot in the head. And I just said, you know, I mean, what do you say to that?

It was unconscionable, right? Like that isn't even possible. So I told her that I would be there on the first flight in the morning and I got on a 6 a.m. flight. And at that point, they had told us that she likely wouldn't survive the injury. And I was just hoping to make it there while she was still with us. And yes, she died later that day at 6.29 p.m. Actually, she was pronounced dead.

And so another point that I would like to make about the criminal involved in this is that in our justice system, if in fact they determined that this man had the intelligence or the intellectual capacity of a five-year-old, which I find hard to believe because he certainly was adept around guns, right? But if in fact that was true, even children in our society, if a child uses a gun in a violent crime, they're detained to a juvenile detention facility. They're not just set free. So where is the logic in all of this? Where is the sanity? There is none. There is none. And I hope the people responsible for letting him walk are just as sick as I am right now hearing it times 100. They need to be brought to justice.

They need to be held accountable as well. What's interesting also, Andy Kahn, is we keep hearing, oh, Jillian was not the intended victim. Okay. I actually had a case where a teen boy was coming home from band practice and a doper, two dopers, shot him dead. And guess what their defense was at trial? It's very similar. I can well imagine because when I was, when I was at parole. Yes, it was transferred intent, Andy. Oh, I meant to shoot Jackie, but I killed Sidney instead. That's not a defense. I meant to kill. That's all that matters. I had a guy on parole for murder and he looked at me and he goes, Mr. Kahn, I want you to know I didn't kill that guy. I didn't mean to kill that guy. I meant to kill the other guy. And I was like,

okay, what do you want me to do? Pardon you? Guys, who is this beautiful girl? Who is Jillian? Listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Jillian Ludwig is passionate about music. Having graduated from Wall High School in June, Jillian Ludwig enjoys time with friends and boyfriend as she prepares to leave for Nashville in college life. She loves the beat, nature, music, and performing in the local places. Ludwig arrives on campus at Belmont University for her freshman year and immediately impacts the local music scene. In her first weeks of college, she settled into a routine playing lots of music, but also getting outside and enjoying the weather. Nashville is a big change from her native New Jersey, and Jillian Ludwig loves jogging and

walking around the park. Can you imagine, here she is going off to college. It's a beautiful, beautiful fall day, November 7. And she is out loving life, loving life, minding your own business in a park and a heavily residential area when shots ring out. But in researching and asking questions about Jillian, I find out that she was loving and giving and the apple of everyone's eye, even as a little girl. Listen. Growing up in Jersey, Jillian found joy and gave joy through music. She sang and served as cantor for years at St. Mark's Church in Seagirt, was very involved with Lake House Music Academy in Asbury Park, singing and playing guitar and bass with multiple bands,

as well as teaching young music students. Playing local music spots like Stone Pony and Asbury Lanes, as well as some gigs in New York City, music led her to initiate a service project called Playing It Forward. She would play her music at a local venue, then donate all the proceeds, including tips, to organizations helping musicians in need, including children. Children that did not have access to instruments or music education, like she had access. She actually wanted to help other people.

You know, it makes me think of my mom. They grew up dirt poor. My mom was a musical superstar. Someone paid, an anonymous donor, to this day we don't know who it was, paid for her music education from first grade all the way till she studied at Wesleyan College for Women. She never knew who donated that. She went on to play in the symphony and become a professional musician. That is what this young girl was doing for other children, giving up her own tips, her own money she'd make playing to help these children that had no music education, that couldn't afford instruments. That's who Jillian Ludwig was. Now, who is her killer, her alleged killer? Take a listen to our

cut six. Shaquille Taylor, the man arrested in the shooting death of Jillian Ludwig, is someone well known to law enforcement with a record stretching back more than a decade. His latest arrest was on September 21st, driving a Ford F-150 pickup truck that had been carjacked by two men wearing ski masks. Taylor was charged with felony auto theft and released on a $20,000 bond. Taylor was due in court just days before the shooting of Jillian Ludwig, but failed to show up. A failure to appear warrant was issued, and that was the added charge to Taylor's arrest in the shooting death of Ludwig. So bottom line, Marissa Sulik joining us from WSMV in Nashville. We always call them BFs, bond forfeitor. When you don't show up to court, you get arrested. I don't care where you are, you are found and arrested. And this guy was a stone's throw of where he always is. But he wasn't picked up and brought in. Isn't that true, Marissa?

Yeah, I mean, and we have done extensive reporting on this just weeks before Jillian was killed. Our I-team, our investigative team found out after they talked with Glenn Fung, the district attorney, that there are 229 criminals like Taylor just roaming the streets here in Nashville that have been deemed incompetent to stand trial. So that means they don't understand how a jury works technically. They don't know how lawyers work. So this is very frustrating that they don't have the funding. They don't have the funding to get them these evaluations, the training. They've gone to lawmakers, except the Senate didn't end up passing that this past session.

They're trying to bring it back in January. But even Glenn Funk, the district attorney, said just a couple of weeks ago before Jillian was killed, he told our chief investigative reporter, Jeremy Finley, that's just a matter of time before someone else is hurt. And then this happened. They let it happen. Joining me, high-profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district attorney, Lawrence County, author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew, jump in. Well, Nancy, you know, certainly I understand this process to determine whether somebody is competent or incompetent to stand trial. They can't aid in their own defense, and there's evaluations done,

and that determination is made that they're not competent to be tried. The second issue, though, with this individual is should he have been on the street? Should there have been an involuntary commitment of him because of his dangerousness? Yes. Which he had demonstrated through his criminal record. And I don't see when I look at these media reports that there was ever a psychiatric detention hearing. You know, you can involuntarily commit somebody for three days and then you have a hearing in front of a master or a judge. That person can then be held for an additional 15 days.

But there's criteria that you have to meet that two doctors say that that individual is dangerous to the community. Was that ever even done? Well, I can give you a little bit of the history, Matthew Mangino. Actually, take a listen to this. Shaquille Taylor has a criminal history dating back to 2011. Police seized a.40 caliber handgun from Taylor when he was a juvenile. In 2015, Taylor was charged with robbery and given probation. Taylor violated the terms of his probation, charged with aggravated burgl. Taylor violated the terms of his probation, charged with aggravated burglary,

and was sentenced to a year in jail in 2016. In 2021, Taylor was arrested and charged with aggravated assault when he fired a gun into a car with two children in the backseat. In May of 2023, he was released from custody after three court-appointed psychologists deemed him incompetent to stand trial, but also found he didn't pose threat to himself or others. He admitted to detectives in 2021 that he did it. And more. Listen. Shaquille Taylor, 29, has an intellectual disability and language impairment according to records

with that determination. It means he isn't able to participate in a trial where he's accused of shooting into a car in 2021. Besides the intended target, the car that he shot into had two children in the back seat, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. Taylor even admitted to detectives in 2021 that he did it. Taylor spent time in jail being interviewed by doctors, but they all agreed that what is called further training or medical care would not change his competency. So despite admitting to detectives that he shot into a car with children inside, charges were dismissed and he was released from custody. We just covered the case of cult mom Lori Vallow who was

deemed incompetent to stand trial. All that means is at the time of trial you are not able to assist your lawyer in your own defense. That does not mean you're insane. It means you're incompetent to stand trial at that moment. So what did they do with cult mom Lori Vallow? They kept her behind bars and got her ready to the point that she was competent. So here, even though this guy keeps shooting at people over and over and carjacking, shooting at cars, committing one crime after the next, they don't put him in a facility for the mentally impaired, and they don't put him in jail.

Their answer is to put him back on the street, Andy Khan. You know, in Texas, you remain committed, and I'm fairly sure that in most states, you remain committed until you're deemed competent to stand trial. You just don't get punted right back to the community. And how do you explain incompetency when a defendant evidently has no problems driving all around Nashville, firing off guns. He's got a girlfriend. He lives on his own. Explain how that is deemed incompetent. Whoa, wait. He drives a car, lives on his own, and has a girlfriend? Yes. Okay, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, this is not a guy with the mind of a five-year-old. He's got a girlfriend, drives a car, has a driver's license, and lives on his own.

Exactly. And we know he knows how to use a gun and likes using guns. So I, as a forensic mental health professional, I'm over here just inside screaming because I'm sorry I don't see how you arrive at the conclusion as a forensic mental health professional that this is not someone who poses a danger to society. that he worked at a local fast food restaurant with someone that we actually spoke with, and she was like, he was normal and fine. There was nothing that said that he was five years old or at least acted like a kindergartner according to some evaluations. Okay. You're hearing Marissa Sulik with WSMV.

Could you please say that again? Who in the H-E-L-L said this guy was incompetent? He works at a fast food restaurant. He lives on his own. He has a girlfriend. He has a driver's license. He drives a car, and he knows how to shoot a gun. Yeah.

Help me. Marissa, what more can you tell me about him working at a fast food restaurant? Well, we talked with actually a friend of his that worked at that fast food restaurant, which is actually just right by our station. And she was shocked. I mean, she found out maybe a few days after Jillian was killed that and when she saw his mugshot, she was like, wait, I actually work with this guy and happens to be someone we all know at the station. So she was like, yeah, he's totally fine.

He has like his brother's a manager there, everything. He acts completely normal. But still, there's three doctors, according to court documents, that still deem him incompetent to stand trial. Now, it's my understanding that Marissa Seelig, you may be able to shed a light on this, that his family, Shaquille Taylor's family, says the system has failed him. Yeah, you're right. We've spoken with his grandmother, and I've seen his mom and dad in the courtroom for a hearing that he did not appear in because he waived his first appearance. But, yeah, they straight up told us the system has failed their son or grandson okay uh to jerry wainwright she is the great aunt of jillian ludwig who is almost like a pawn in this

whole thing we're not even talking about her and her musical talents and how her family loved her and how she was the apple of their eye and how she's minding her own business, going for a jog slash walk at a park in a heavily residential area when this guy, Shaquille Taylor, opens fire and kills her. And now we learn he's not incompetent at all. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jerry, do her parents have any idea about what we're learning now from Marissa Sulik? We know everything that's been reported. We've been staying abreast of all the reporting, and I have spoken to Marissa at length. Um, the, it's just, it's mind numbing to think that it all was preventable that she could have lived.

I mean, Jillian was, she was all those things, all the things that we mentioned. She was kind and loving and she was so smart and so funny. And she had a laugh that could just light up the world. Um, I never heard anyone say a bad word about her she was literally she was 18 years old and she was the best person i know inside outside jerry i got a question for you sure have you seen the photo of whom we believe is shaquille taylor and he is standing with who we think is his brother, posing, making something like gang signs with his hands. And the brother is showing a huge roll of money.

I have not seen that. I have seen his mugshot. No. This is from straight off of Facebook. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that there's any question that he is someone that should not have been on the street. I believe that there are people that need to be held responsible for this. I believe that it was a total failure of a system that should be designed to protect the public at large. It should be designed to protect innocent people. People should be able to live their life in broad daylight without fear of being gunned down by somebody who has no business being on the street. Andy Kahn, I would like for you to take a look at this photo that I just sent you.

Yeah, I'm looking at it. This is who I believe to be Shaquille Taylor on the left, his brother on the right. They look like, you know, have you seen the pictures that gang members or perps posted themselves, like showing all the money they just got? Yeah. You see that picture? I do. I'm looking at it. This is the guy they said is incompetent i'm looking at

it and i'm going you know look he's flashing he's proud of himself he wants the whole world to know who he is and what he is it's from his facebook yeah he has facebook correct the guy they say has a mind of a five-year-old has a Facebook and posts pictures of himself flashing money. This is what makes this so maddening. It is. My question to everybody here and to Nancy, obviously this is an ultimate tragedy, yet this was so utterly preventable. Will Jillian's death be a catalyst for change? It has to be. This cannot continue to happen. There needs to be a law and it needs to be named the Jillian Ludwig

Law. Well, Nancy, I think that's exactly what has to happen here. Obviously, the law as it is, as it exists in Tennessee, is inadequate because it provides that if a doctor or doctors say that someone is incompetent, they can't aid in their defense. The judge has no alternative but to dismiss the case. And that has to change uh and and you would think that nashville he doesn't have to dismiss the case when someone is determined incompetent yeah he can be held right until he is competent i mean did anybody see the facebook picture that we just pulled up all on our own it's him and he's with a guy flashing money. Okay. He's not incompetent. He works at a fast food restaurant. He lives on his own. He has a girlfriend, a driver's license. He drives, he gets access to guns and he shoots them over and over and over. That is not the mind of a

five-year-old child. But the problem is Nancy, and as you know, that these decisions are based on medical evidence. And that if a doctor comes in and does a forensic assessment and says that this person has no ability or limited ability to aid in his own defense, the court has to make that determination based on medical evidence. Actually, that's partially true because I recall distinctly a murder that was set up to look like a suicide. And the defendant was deemed incompetent to stand trial. And I, I'm not an MD. I'm not a shrink. I went and got evidence on my own of letters. He was writing to friends, co-workers, talking about how he was going to stay in the mental

facility for X number. I think he said two years while he made sand paintings, you know, those sand paintings you put in a bottle and did artwork. And then he would get out. I got every letter I could find of his to show he was not incompetent. And when presented with that evidence, doctors had a very different opinion. Just as I think they would if they had this evidence that we're talking about right now. Matthew Mangino, that's BS. Well, why wasn't it presented?

I don't know why it wasn't presented. Andy Kahn, help me find answers. The failure in the law is that if you deem someone incompetent, it should not mean that the case is dismissed. And that's what Tennessee law apparently provides. There should be some other method, whether it is civil commitment because of a mental health issue and a risk to others. These things should work hand in hand. They shouldn't be, well, here we're going to deal with incompetency, and if you bring it up, we'll deal with the issue of danger to society. These should work hand in hand, and they don't.

And that has to change on a legislative level in Tennessee. Okay, thank you for preaching. These people screwed up, Andy Kahn. If you and I and the people here at Crime Stories can dig up this evidence, if Marissa Sulik can dig up this evidence, they can dig up the evidence. And they let this guy walk out, and now Jillian is dead. And that's why I said the state of Tennessee is equally, if not more, than complicit and culpable in her death for knowingly allowing a career habitual violence

of felon right back to the community to do what he does best, commit crimes. And this time, 18-year-old Jillian Ludwig paid the ultimate price. Something's got to give. Back to Jerry Wainwright joining us, the great aunt of Jillian Ludwig. Jerry, sometimes I feel that you don't know what to say, not only because Jillian has passed away, not only because her parents are grieving, but because it was all so avoidable. If the prosecutor, the doctors, the defense attorney, and the judge had done their job, but they didn't, and now Jillian is dead, it can only add to the grief that her parents are suffering. It does. It does.

You know, we haven't had Jillian's funeral yet. So they're still trying to process. We're all still trying to process and get over that hurdle. But yes, it is maddening. It's, you know, something like this violent crime like this usually doesn't hit home for most of us. When it happens, it's somebody else's life, some other place, some other story. And everybody feels bad about it and we're empathetic. When it hits home and you could never expect or plan or prepare for it, the shock and the grief and the depths of their sorrow are overwhelming. And yes, the fact that it was preventable, it makes us angry, very, very angry.

They sent their daughter away into the world to live her best life, to be something great. And she would have. She would have done amazing things with her life. that other people's incompetency contributed to her death is, yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's earth-shattering. Andy Cohn, sometimes we don't have the answer. You know, I've worked with so many victims' families and crime victims themselves, and they look to us prosecutors, investigators, as having some kind of an answer. I don't know the answer. I don't have an answer right now. The only answer is what we've already known, is that the state of Tennessee failed

Jillian. Now the only question is, are we going to allow them to continue to fail other families? It's my understanding that they resume legislative back in session in January. This needs to be priority legislation on the fast track, and they need to name a law after her so no other family has to endure the pain, grief, and agony of losing a loved one to this insane, and that's what this is, insane decision. Let's just wait and see whether the Tennessee legislature, packed with politicians, has the backbone to do anything about it. But for now, our prayers for Jillian's family go on. Goodbye, friends.