Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen Girl Shot Dead at Birthday Party: NO ARRESTS

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

An Atlanta teen is shot dead at a reported birthday party. Hundred of teens from high schools across Metro Atlanta attended. Police receive a call about a person shot and find the 15-year-old victim near the entrance, unresponsive. Investigators say an individual was removed from the party but returned with an accomplice. They fired multiple shots into the building. So far, no suspects have been named.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted "My Buckhead's Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022" Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA; Twitter: @ColdCaseTips     Dr. Jeffrey M. Jentzen - Professor of Forensic Pathology and Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services at the University of Michigan Medical School; Former Medical Examiner in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin Bruce Griggs - Executive Director, Operation Correct Start; Youth Violence Prevention Expert; Former Juvenile Probation Officer & Founder Saving Our Sons Campaign; Facebook: Bruce W. Griggs   Rob DiRienzo - Fox 5 Atlanta Reporter; Twitter: @RobDiRienzo  Dave Mack -  CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. An absolutely beautiful 15-year-old girl is dead. Why? Why her? Because she went to a birthday party. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. You may have just said, what? What did she say? She's dead because she went to a birthday party? What does that have to do with each other? Nothing. She is dead because she went to a birthday party. This teen girl, I ought to pull a picture of her up.

This one really gets to me. Here she is and her girl. I could just see my daughter wearing this. My little girl is 15. She just turned 15. She and her twin brother. Layla has on this. Oh, it's skin tight and it should be with a figure like hers. She's got on this spaghetti strap, beautiful, tight red type of sheath dress. She's got her hair beautiful. She's got the perfect smile. Now, I don't know if this smile is natural or if her parents paid 20 grand for those teeth out of braces,

but it's beautiful. And she's got her nails done. And this is the part that breaks my heart. She's got a little wrist corsage. She's going to a dance in this picture. You know, maybe it was a prom at her school. And the look on her face, she's carefree. She's a little teen girl. She's got the world in front of her. Why did she have to bleed out

dead at a birthday party? Why her? She's never done anything wrong. Good student. Beloved. Everything. First of all, take a listen to Sergeant Julia Isaac, PIO, Clayton County Police. At 11 p.m., Clayton County Police Department responded to 1078 Citizens Parkway in reference to a person shot. Upon arrival to the scene, officers noticed hundreds of teenagers running away from the scene. Once they got up to the location, they observed a female deceased from a gunshot wound in front of the entrance. During the investigation, officers learned that Layla Harris came to a high school party.

Clayton County Police say 15-year-old Layla Harris was doing what most kids do, enjoying a party thrown for metro area students around 11 Saturday night on Citizens Parkway. But trouble started when someone at the party was escorted off the property. He came back with an accomplice and he shot up the location. As students ran for cover, Layla was hit and killed. I'm just thinking about this girl you're hearing, our friends at WSB-TV and Sergeant Isaac speaking. You know, when you approach a scene, and I've had it happen. I remember Daryl Cohen joining me, high-profile lawyer of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

Interesting, former felony prosecutor, nothing but violent crimes like myself. Like I prosecuted, I mean. Daryl, I remember one night I was going down to the Red Oak Housing Project. And it was at night. I was with my bodyguard, my investigator, Ernest, that you know. And we was going to a crack house. We get out and all of a sudden everybody starts running. So right then I know something bad is happening because everybody's running. We were unannounced. We didn't have a search warrant. I was just going to look for a

witness. And I knew that was their crack house where they would frequent and I knew that it would be late at night sometime after you know 12 a.m. and that's why we were there so late and everybody starts running like roaches running out we go in Daryl and there's really no furniture there's one kind of a burned up plaid sofa turned over. There's a big burn hole in the carpet. Not recent. I mean, this was a flop house. It's a crack house where people go in there. There's a burn mark on the carpet because that's where they've been cooking up crack. So when you go to a scene and all of a sudden you see everybody running, you know there's something really bad going on inside. That ever happen to you?

Nancy, it happened several times. But also, I want to point out that a lot of young kids, when they see the police or someone that they think is law enforcement, they automatically run. And that's systemic in our society that we've got to change. But back to your question. Yes, when you show up and everybody runs, you know that they're not running to you, they're running from you, and there's something bad that has happened or is about to happen. So therefore, no one wants to be a part of where you are because they don't want to be arrested. They don't want to be questioned. They don't want to be stopped.

It's not a good situation. But you know what you're getting into when you're there. Cheryl McCollum joining me, expert, founder of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Cheryl, you're, I think, still in the midst of raising two college students. And I remember my curfew, I had to be in the house by 11. This was when I was on up in high school, like 12th grade. It was 11 o'clock. This girl is just 11 o'clock at night. She's at a party with about 100 kids or more, an open venue, and I think it was in a home.

So you would think it's just 11 o'clock on Saturday night that she should still be safe. You would think she'd be safe, especially surrounded by all of her friends and classmates. But Nancy, my understanding is this was a birthday party at a venue, and they had hundreds of teenagers from all metro high schools. So my question is, what did the gunman do to get escorted out? Was there a fight? Was there drinking? Was there some, because you're talking about hundreds of students, you know, teenagers, but he sticks out. He's a problem. So to be a problem in that atmosphere with music and talking and dancing for somebody to be able to know you're such an issue you've got to go and be escorted out

he was already a problem before the shooting started let's go to the source for answers joining me special guest from fox 5 atlanta rob durenzo, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the venue. Well, it's essentially this space in, I would say, kind of an industrial lot. There's a startup church right next to it. And then there's a what? It was kind of this like startup church founded in this, essentially the shopping plaza in this industrial area in Clayton County. So it wasn't exactly the spot or where you would expect to find a child's birthday party just in this kind of, like I said,

industrial area in Clayton. Okay, now wait a minute. It's beside a church in a strip mall? Yeah, exactly. And right next to it is another business. It really isn't, like I said, a venue that you would expect to find a child's birthday

party. We tried to reach out to the event hall owner who seems to want to create a larger business out of it. Haven't heard anything back from them, but clearly there was not adequate security there that night. Trying to figure out, okay, what kind of a party was it? Guys, take a listen to our friends at Fox 5. We need your assistance to find justice for Layla Harris. Investigators made that plea to the public after the Marietta teen was shot and killed outside a massive high

school party on Citizens Parkway in Clayton County on Saturday night. On Monday, we saw the windows next to the event hall shattered and a bullet lying on the ground. Clayton cops say when they got there, it was already too late to save 15-year-old Layla Harris. Officers noticed hundreds of teenagers running away from the scene. Once they got up to the location, they observed a female deceased from a gunshot wound in front of the entrance.

Layla's cousin told me on the phone that they're hoping to fly her body back home to St. Louis. Writing on GoFundMe, sadly, she was tragically killed while attending a birthday party, just doing what any 15-year-old likes to do, trying to have fun. And now we've lost her to a senseless act of violence. To Dr. Angie Arnold joining us, renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. This is not unusual. You have a party at a venue, and this one tells that one, and that one tells this one,

and pretty soon, there's 100 people there. That's not unusual at all. No, it's not, Nancy, and it happens all over the city. It doesn't just happen down in Clayton County. It happens in Buckhead. It happens in a lot of different places. And, you know, and yeah, there are problems with these events, but nobody attends this event thinking they're going to get shot and killed.

They're attending the event to have fun. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I think about these events, I've covered several cases where girls, young ladies show up at a party that has basically turned into an event. And what they don't get when they show up is it's not like a party in your house or your backyard. These are people that are not connected in any way. You don't know them. It's not like I'm going to Jackie's 21st birthday party because she's going to have her family there. She's going to have some other people that work on crime stories. And we're going to all generally know who each other is.

At a get-together like this, you don't know each other at all, Dr. Angie. That's exactly right. But, Nancy, here know each other at all, Dr. Angie. That's exactly right. But Nancy, here's the other thing too. You're talking about 15-year-olds. 15-year-olds aren't thinking that far in advance to think, well, I'm not going to know anybody that's here. They are going because of the fear of missing out. They want to go.

They want to be seen there. They want to have a good time. But they don't think about the repercussions of what can happen. I mean, Nancy, I am sure you are telling your kids all the time about what to look out for whatever they're doing, right? Yeah, but I don't want to go so overboard that they're scared. And you know, this is reminding me of another case that I covered for a long time, forever. It felt like there was no resolution in the disappearance of a gorgeous young girl, Chelsea Brooke. Chelsea had gone to what she thought was going to be a party with maybe 50 or 60 people there.

It was a Halloween party, and to further complicate her disappearance, she was dressed as the arch-villain Poison Ivy, complete with the green outfit, the flask of poison, and a red wig. As I recall, Chelsea Brooke was blonde underneath. So when people were shown Chelsea's picture, they went and said, did you see her? Nobody could identify her. First of all, there were only two or three of her girlfriends. They went together. They're the only ones that knew what Chelsea really looked like. She had on Halloween dramatic makeup, the red wig, the costume.

No one, what turned out to be over a thousand people, show up at the party because it got posted online. No one could identify Chelsea. It was a long time, months and months and months that passed before cops thought they found her tights that she was wearing that went with her outfit. And ultimately, the perp's name was Daniel Clay that lured her away, raped and murdered her. Now, what was the stumbling block in the investigation? A big party like this one, and no one could identify Chelsea, and no one could identify who Poison Ivy left with, because nobody knew each other.

And even right now, we have no idea who is the guy that was kicked out of this party, that came back and started shooting and murdered a 15-year-old innocent girl who was planning to get home before her curfew that Saturday night. How can we get justice for Layla Harris? Listen to this. This glass taped up. It shattered at the top of the scene where at least one of those bullets went into the window on the ground.

Glass still there from what went down here over the weekend. And get this, that is not even the venue we're talking about. It's next door over here at Suite E where Layla Harris, where she was at a party, a birthday party, according to her family, Saturday night. Officers noticed hundreds of teenagers running away from the scene. Those teens were running from this venue. It was a high school party. On Saturday night, Clayton County Police say hundreds of students from Metro Atlanta showed up, but at some point, one guy was kicked out. He came back with an accomplice and he shot up the location. Clayton County Police say Layla Harris was shot and killed just outside the

front door. At the point that everybody was scattering and running, she was caught in the crossfire. As her GoFundMe page states, Layla lost her life to a senseless act of violence. I did reach out to this venue several times today for a comment on what happened and to find out really who threw this party. So far, they've not returned to any of my emails. I bet they haven't because they're afraid. They're afraid to get involved. There's already one dead body of a 15-year-old girl. You know, with me is Bruce Griggs, Executive Director of Operation Correct Start.

It's a youth violence prevention expert. And you can find him at correctstart.org bruce when your child says hey mom can i go to this birthday party that sounds so benign doesn't it can i go to birthday party mom i'll be home by 12 doesn't that sound like that's okay on a saturday night to go to a friend's birthday party well back when i was growing up, it did. But nowadays, there's no way that you should allow your child to go to an event where you haven't checked out the facility, whether they have proper security. You should even know exactly who's giving the event and some of their friends. You just can't let your kids go out.

Especially kids that are growing up in the culture that this young lady got killed in. Kids are effectively silenced from confronting violent incidents like this by what we call the notion of the commandments of violence. Everybody's heard of the commandments of the Bible, but these kids nowadays live by not the commandments of the Bible and the first commandment is that shall not snitch they truly believe in that they will go to their grave trying to make sure we have to teach them that and we do this in our a program that snitching is when you tell to get yourself out of trouble when you deserve to be in Ellen is to help I'm a citizen you help. I'm a citizen. You have the right to want to help.

You have the right to want to be safe. We have to make sure. There are a lot of kids that want to be safe. They don't want to be in an environment where they're shooting, but there's so much pressure on them to not tell, to not snitch. Even now, it's like pulling a tooth to find out who was throwing the party, who could have been there. How was everyone invited to the party? I got a question for you, Rob Durienzo, Fox 5. Did it go out on social media?

How did everybody know about the birthday party? That's what the prevailing theory is right now. We've been actually looking for this post that apparently circulated for a few days and we haven't been able to find it but essentially it was an open invite to any teenager in the Atlanta metro area and you can imagine how wrong that can go as we saw. But she seemed to think it was a birthday party. Yeah it seemed like it was a birthday party with an open invite so you didn't have to know the person whose birthday it was in order to attend. Okay Cheryl McCollum joining me. Cheryl could you explain everybody what it's an open invite party? Yeah that's just when you put it out there and just all come you're just saying hey we're going to be at this location at this time everybody wants to come to invite it it's it's exactly what

it says open. I've got a problem Cheryl Cheryl McCollum. You're the forensic expert. Are you telling me cops can't find the invite online? Oh, they can find it. And not only that, they know the person that hosted it. They already know that. And more importantly, they know the person that escorted this person out of the party. So that gives you a person that could do a composite. And whatever issue they had inside, whether they were arguing or fighting with another person, that's a second witness that could possibly give you that information.

Kids were also, you know, taking pictures, taking selfies, taking videos. That shooter is somewhere in those pictures as well. Absolutely. And to tell me you can't find the invite, that you can't get the facts straight. Guys, take a listen to Sergeant Julia Isaac, Clayton County. It was hosted by unknown individuals, and it was held for students for the metro area. At this time, we're asking for assistance from the public. We're asking for anyone to come forward that has any information in reference to

this shooting. We need your assistance to find justice for Layla Harris. One of those shots hitting the window here, you're looking at that right about now. It is boarded up. The owners of this business did not want to speak with us on camera for safety reasons, but did share that they were just here yesterday working and decided to take the day off. So long story short, you're hearing the sergeant with Clayton County and you're hearing our friends at Fox 5 that nobody wants to get involved. Nobody wants their face seen. Nobody wants to be on any official documents because they're afraid. They're afraid they'll be targeted if they help cops catch the killer of this 15-year-old girl who seems to have thought she was just going to a birthday party. How did it all go so wrong?

And why aren't other members, other people that attend the party, having their phones confiscated and all of those photos being examined? You know, to you, Daryl Cohen, how often when you are prosecuting, are you confronted with nobody saw anything? Nobody heard anything. Nobody knows anything. But that is wrong. Somebody did see, did hear, and does know. But nobody will tell. Define the conqueror. Divide and conquer. That's the only way people suddenly remember, oh yes, I saw this. Oh yes, I heard that. And no, I wasn't there. Oh yes, I guess I was.

And Nancy, let me say this, that I've been waiting. I'm furious with the parents You can't change what happened this 15 year old girl. She's dead, but let's stop it Let's where the heck are the parents allowing 15 year olds to go halfway across the city Or all the way across the city to go to a party. This is Completely in my view on the parents as well as the shooter, as well as the venue. There was no security that was adequate to take care of all of this. Well, I mean, for Pete's sake, Daryl Cohen, they're high school students. They're not thinking about security. Well, I am, and mom and dad should be, and mom and dad should say, you're 15 curfew as you pointed out when you were younger

and i was younger was 11 or 11 30 well can i tell you what just happened this past weekend my son you know my children john dave and lucy they just turned 15 and um my daughter is very petite my son is six five but he is a giant. And he got invited to a birthday party, and it was going to be at Six Flags at night. And, of course, all I could think about is murder, mayhem, robbings, armed robberies at this big venue. I was the only mom, as it turns out, that asked the host parents, Hey, are you guys going to be with them? Here I've got a son, 6'5", and I'm worried about him going to Six Flags without a parent there. And it all turned out just fine.

As it happened, my husband and I suddenly had dinner plans, believe it or not, right there at Six Flags. Isn't that crazy that it worked out that way? So unbeknownst to him, do not repeat this story to my children. Mommy was not far away and dad also reluctantly was nearby as well. You know, Bruce Griggs, I think, I'm not planning on blaming the parents here because I don't even know if they really knew where the venue was, but it shows that you're just not safe letting your child go to a party. And oh, by the way, everything was absolutely fine at Six Flags, just like the parents said, they had a great time. There was not even a hint of gang activity, of anything threatening, nothing.

It was absolutely fine, thank God. But you just never know. But what's the cross between living a normal life and living in fear if something's going to happen to your teen kid. Well, we've got to all understand that youth gun violence has reached epidemic proportions. As a parent, that's the first thing you should be able to pay attention to. But as a community, we have to come together to try to prevent and reduce violence, not only by but also against the youth. It's gotten to a point throughout the nation where we've got to treat this violence as a disease. We've got to start treating it as a public health issue, the same way that we were looking at COVID-19.

Well, how are we going to do that with defund the police? Huh? How are you going to get more cops out there to help when we don't even have enough cops? I'm not saying that cops are the answer. Oh, okay. Then how are we going to control the dispersion of guns? Let me explain. Just listen real closely. When you treat violence as a disease, you got to attack the problem where it is. You know, a lot of people would argue that they believe they're safe because they live in fill in the blank or they're going to a private school or they are in their office

in a very calm office district or their home has a burglar alarm on it or they've got a fence around their yard. That is not true. To you, Daryl Cohen, violence seeps into your life no matter what community you're in or where you're from. Would you agree? I mean, you and I prosecuted and you've defended violent crimes all across Fulton County.

I've had murders where all the millionaires live. I've had murders in housing projects. I've had murders in single family homes. I've had mass shootings out on a playground for Pete's sake. Crime seeps in everywhere. Each of my daughters, I tell them, and you know one of them very well, keep your head on a swivel. Yes, there's more likely crime going to happen in certain neighborhoods.

But yes, crime happens everywhere. And it happens when you least expect it. It happens in the middle of the day. It happens in the middle of the night, It happens in the middle of the night, more likely late at night when it's dark, but it happens everywhere. And if the parents don't take responsibility for their kids, then who in the world is going to be able to take responsibility? I disagree with you on that, Daryl, because no parent, when their child says, hey, mom, can I go to a birthday party? I'll be home before midnight. And the parents have never had any problem with this girl at all.

I can. I just can't lay the blame at their door yet. Although, apparently, they did not know the venue, which is troubling. I want to go back to Layla Harris. To Dr. Jeffrey M. Jensen joining us, Professor of Forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy Forensic Services, University of Michigan Medical School,

former medical examiner in Milwaukee County, never lack of business there. Dr. Jensen, how is it that this young girl bled out so quickly? She never got to tell cops anything about who may have been her killer. Well, of course, Nancy, it is determined by which body area and which organ is struck by the projectile. If a projectile struck the heart or major artery, death would occur within a matter of seconds to less than a minute. Other times you've got injuries related to the extremities where the victim will basically run or try to extricate themselves from the scene only to bleed out

blocks later from the scene. In this case, I'm kind of interested in the fact that a bullet was seen or a projectile was found next to the window area. And in this case, we'd probably expect to find atypical entrance wounds on the body indicating that there was an intermediate target that impeded the bullet before it struck the young woman. So it all depends on where the injury occurred. It may be immediate if it strikes the brain or some other vital area. With some of the injuries that you suggested may have happened, do the lungs actually fill up with blood and you can no longer breathe?

That's one of the causes of death is large major vessels are struck and then the person may aspirate or inhale the blood as it fills up into the lungs. But typically, it's related to exsanguination in which the blood is exiting the blood vessels and filling up the large chest cavities with blood. Would she have suffered, Dr. Jensen, or would she be dead instantly? You know, that's the classic question that families ask us on every case. And, you know, again, it's determinate on, you know, what kind of injury you have. If the brainstem or the brain is affected, of course, the person dies immediately. There are issues of pain and suffering when an individual may be bleeding and basically, you know, know that they're going to die because of the amount of hemorrhage. It all depends on

the site. And we try to be as sensitive to the families as we can and know that in many cases these young people are in shock and don't necessarily feel pain. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us, Dr. Angie, I like to tell myself that when my fiancé was murdered, he didn't feel anything, that he just blacked out, and one instant he was here and the next instant he was in heaven.

It was just like that. And I was just noticing recently, Dr. Angie, that the family of the Idaho, the four Idaho students that were slaughtered, one of the family members said, well, you know, it was very quick.

They didn't have time to really feel anything. I think we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better because I don't want to think about my fiancé Keith lying there in pain, knowing that he's dying, not being able to move or call out for help because nobody's there. And I wonder about that. And then I always say, well, you know, you probably didn't feel anything because it's easier to think that, to go about your day. Just like in Layla's case, it's easy to say, oh, this little teen girl atla's case, it's easy to say, oh, this little teen girl at a birthday party,

she didn't really feel anything. It was just like one moment she's here, one moment she's gone. That's not true. Let's just talk about the truth. I mean, Nancy, can you imagine the fear, first of all, that she felt because she was shot running out of the house

or whatever this venue was. So there was fear inside of this place. She's running out and then she gets shot. And I'm sorry, nobody can convince me that it doesn't hurt to have a bullet go through you. I mean, if we cut ourselves, it hurts. For God's sake, it had to hurt for some period of time. But you're exactly right, Nancy. People are going, we have to do what we can to protect our memories and to try not to feel the amount of pain we are feeling at this little girl's loss. And so what do we do? We come up with things like that. And let's not blame the parents either in this regard, like i said these parties go on everywhere around

atlanta and we i mean it's sad to say but do you always know where your children are going well for me yes but i don't know about everybody else yeah i know where they are right now i know where they were last night the night before that i know what they're wearing. Nancy, can I jump in? Yeah. I think one of the most important things is going to be the timeline. When he, the shooter, was escorted out of that party, how long was he gone before he came back and was shooting? That's going to give them a parameter that he left there, was back in 15 minutes, 40 minutes, an hour and a half, whatever it was. And that'll give you an area of how long it took him to go get this fool accomplice and a gun and come back. Well, what if that was just another party goer and the gun was in the car and they had to work their courage up?

But again, the timeline will tell you that. Maybe, maybe. I usually agree with you, but I don't know if I do this time. But yes, that is a very valid very valid supposition what i don't get is why a 15 year old girl at a birthday party of hundreds hundreds of high school students they can't id the killer who was at the party and got thrown out or at least that's the working theory. There is a manhunt going on right now for the shooter of Layla Harris, just 15 years old, at a high school party. Take a listen to Sergeant Julia Isaac.

An individual was escorted off of the property. He came back with an accomplice, and he shot up the location. I'm assuming at the point that everybody was scattering and running, she was caught in the crossfire. At this time, the investigators are following all leads, so that will include us trying to look for any video that's available. I just want to say if anyone knows what happened, if they have any information, to please come forward. Someone at the party should know who he is. We're still following leads, so it's still in the preliminary phases at this time.

Brandon Wilcox owns the business next door. He's been worried about parties like this before. Because at two, three, four o'clock in the morning, I'm seeing that there's teenagers still hanging out. Often hear the conversations and it's like man something can happen at any given time now with another life lost to gun violence community leaders in clayton county say change can't wait we need to come together and rise up in unity we need to go back to the days where the neighbors see your child they're calling the parents it starts at home clayton police believe students from across several metro Atlanta high schools attended Saturday's party, and they believe someone knows who the shooter is. And now we have police begging for help to identify the shooter.

You know, I find it really hard to believe Rob DiRienzo that nobody knows who the shooter is. I mean, he was thrown out of the party, or at least that's the working theory, isn't it? Well, yeah, that's exactly right. And it's important to note that we obviously don't know what investigators have in their back pocket and what they're working on behind the scenes. Well, they just issued a public plea for the ID of the shooter. So that tells me they don't know who he is yet. Yeah. And it's important to know that they're, you know, hopefully scouring social media and trying to track down the source of this, this post that circulated the invite, and then obviously, any videos or any fallout from the shooting. So that's all going to be part of their work. But

I think Bruce touched on it a little while ago, the snitch mentality is pretty endemic, especially among young people here in Atlanta, where they don't want to say anything, even if they have videos of the events, even if they know exactly who did it. They're afraid of being called a snitch or having a target on their back. You know what my son told me in the third grade? You're never going to believe this, Rob. Third grade, snitches get stitches. I said, where did you hear that?

He didn't tell me. He didn't want to tell me because he didn't want to snitch. Snitches get stitches. I mean, it's ingrained in young people, Bruce Griggs. I think you're right. I wish people would truly understand that these kids are really being silenced, not just here in Clayton County. There was another prayer vigil that happened in DeKalb County. A guy walked up at the prayer vigil and shot and killed somebody.

Everybody saw it happen. Half of them knew him. Nobody said a word. Nobody said a word. There are some commandments that go along with these kids, the commandments of violence. I keep telling you,

thou shalt not snitch. It's the first one. It's not the only one, but it's the most important one. Thou shalt handle thy business. Thou shalt do what thou gotta do. Thou shalt handle thy business. Thou shalt do what thou gotta do. Thou shalt be no punk. Thou shalt carry a pistol. These are the commandments that these young people believe in. They don't believe in the commandments of the Bible like we grew up to.

Let me ask you, Bruce Griggs, Bruce is the executive director, Operation Correct Start. Where are teens, young teens, 13, 13 14 and younger getting guns where are they getting these guns yeah well let me say this when when first of all when the the law came about that that you could carry you could have a permit to carry in georgia what that translated, everybody needed to have a gun. So you got mothers providing guns for their 15, 12, 13-year-old kids. Everybody has a gun. Then you've got these kids who continuously are out under control, not being properly supervised, that break into these cars, and these gangs are paying them to get these guns. Okay, hold on right there.

I think you're right about that. Take a listen to our cut 13, Sergeant Isaac. I just asked that the parents know where their teenagers are. We get multiple reports a week of juveniles running away or sneaking away from home, and then they're coming back a couple of hours later or days later. It also is like a revolving door because we do have mostly teenagers that break into cars. If they see guns inside of the

cars, they're going to break the window to get that gun. And in turn, they use that gun to commit another crime. It's a full circle. If we can take all of our belongings out of the car, maybe they won't steal the guns. If we keep our kids and pay attention to them and keep them home, know where they are, maybe they won't sneak out to break into someone's car. You know, I appreciate everything the sergeant just said and agree with it, but I think that's kind of taking the focus off the fact that they can't find the killer. So it's back on the parents. Wow, parents, you should watch your children.

They need to be finding the killer. They've got a bullet. Can they not trace the bullet back to a known gun in the ballistics database? Waiting to find out about that. They can't tell me that no one has a picture of the perp at that party. Nobody knows who was invited. Nobody can identify who was thrown out. All of that, every bit of it is a lie. But I want to follow up on what Bruce Griggs just said. Sheryl McCollum, it is true. Juveniles, and I've seen this as a prosecutor, are asked to do crimes so the adult doesn't face a stiff penalty. Like you give a 12-year-old dope to go sell in the corner, so the 25-year-old supplying the dope won't go to jail. The 12-year-old will get three weeks in juvie jail for Pete's sake. So explain about the stealing the guns. Okay, and again, that's nothing

new. This has happened since Clinton was president and the three strikes you're out came about. Everybody started using juveniles to, youiles to run their business that is criminal. So what happens is every single time you have an entering auto, pretty much the center console and the glove compartment is open. Well, that's just telling you they're only looking for one thing and one thing only. They're not looking for computers and things like that. They're looking for guns. In Georgia, an illegal gun is going to bring you about 200 bucks. But in New York,

it's 1,200. So if you can get 15 or 20 teenagers out there that are only going to go to juvenile if they're caught, and they can get you 75 guns, and you drive them up to New York, that's a good day. That's a really good day. But you know, when you start investigating a murder, and this is a murder, we have to find out everything we know about the victim. What is connecting her to the killer, if anything? What's making this case so difficult to solve is that we now believe this teen girl, Layla Harris, had no connection to her killer. Much as we're seeing in the Idaho student killings, when there's no connection between the victim and the killer, it's much harder to solve.

It's a needle in a haystack. But straight out to you, Daryl Cohen, this is absolutely a murder case. Why? It could have been argued the defendant was angry for getting thrown out of the party and that he acted in anger, which could, if a defense attorney got the right jury, reduce it down to voluntary manslaughter. But here we have a cooling off period. Explain. Nancy, it goes from murder to voluntary manslaughter if there is no cooling off period.

And that's only a perhaps. But here, our shooter, whoever he was, and I assume it's a he, was removed from the party, came back sometime later. May have been 30 seconds, may have been 30 minutes, may have been an hour, and shot up the place. The fact that our victim was not necessarily his target doesn't mean he's not guilty. It means he's guilty of murder. And let me say this, Nancy, teenagers talk. They're going to find him in a week or two because too many people who saw nothing are suddenly going to be talking to their friends, talking about who he is. So I'm not interested in ballistics yet.

I'm interested in eyewitnesses, and I think you will find they will talk, and he will be apprehended fairly shortly. For those of you asking, there was no surveillance video at the scene of this birthday party, this so-called birthday party. If you know or think you know anything about the murder of this young girl, Layla, please dial 770-477-3747, 770-477-3747. Now, I learned on day one, arguing to a jury, you are never allowed to put a juror in the place, in the shoes of the victim. But just think about it. What if this were your daughter?

At a birthday party, coming home in a box, and no one has been apprehended. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.