Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen Girl Vanishes Night Before High School Dance, Kidnapped from Mall?

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Pamela Conyers spent the night of Oct 16,  in typical teenager fashion. She went to the Friday night homecoming bonfire and pep rally at Glen Burnie High School. Afterward,  her mother gave her 5 dollars and the keys to the family car to run to a nearby mall to pick up shoe dye. Conyers never made it home.  Just days later,  a man reports to police, that he found a 1966 Dodge in an overgrown field about 100 yards off the road. It was the car Conyers was driving. Her body is found about 300 yards from the car. Conyers was lying on her side, wearing slacks and a pullover sweater, that had been turned inside out. Her underwear, her purse and the car keys are missing.   Four detectives are assigned to Pamela Conyers' case full-time. More than 200 leads are checked out.  25 suspects, were picked up interrogated and then released after their alibis checked out. Clothing, dirt and soil samples vacuumed from the car were sent to the FBI crime laboratory in Washington for analysis. No leads are generated and the case goes cold.  Joining Nancy Grace today: James Shelnutt - Attorney - The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm  Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA.; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022  Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of New Podcast: Zone 7; Twitter: @ColdCaseTips  Dr. William Morrone - Medical Examiner, Toxicologist, Pathologist, and Opioid Treatment Expert; Author: “American Narcan: Naloxone & Heroin-Fentanyl associated mortality”  CeCe Moore - Chief Genetic Genealogist, Parabon NanoLabs, Inc. Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A 16-year-old girl getting ready for the big high school dance seemingly vanishes into thin air. What happens to Pamela? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Pamela Conyers, the eldest of three siblings, spent the night of October 16th in typical teenager fashion. She went to the Friday night homecoming bonfire and pep rally at Glen Burney High School. She headed home afterwards and her mom gave her five dollars and the keys

to the family car and Dodge Monaco. Conyers headed to the Herondale Mall in Glen Burney. It's only a three-minute drive from the high school to the mall. Conyers wanted to buy a bottle of shoe dye to match the dress that she planned to wear to the school dance the next evening. Okay, let me understand this. Joining me right now is CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Dave Mack. So, this young girl is 16 years old

and her parents give her gas money and the keys to the family car, the Monaco, to go to the local mall. Is that right? To get shoe dye? Yes, ma'am. That's correct. We're talking like a three or four minute drive away.

It's not a long way away. Just to get shoe dye. That's it. Correct. So she should have been right back. Yes. And they expected her right back. So, okay.

It's that Friday night and they have a big bonfire getting ready for the dance, which I guess is on Saturday. They have the pep rally in the high school gym. She goes home after school and then goes to the mall. Where is Glen Burnie? It is in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. So tell me about that. Is it metropolitan? There's a high population? Or is it suburban? Is it rural? What is it?

It's a rural area, but it's building, Nancy, and that actually comes into play in this whole story. Anne Arundel County was a fairly rural county, but it was in transition. There was a lot of building going on there was a major highway construction going on in the area at the time it was an area that was again going from rural to more cosmopolitan at the time okay sharon mccollum is joining me director of the cold case research institute you can find her at coldcasecrimes.org and she's a star of a brand new hit podcast zone seven sharon mccollum explain why that is so important that we get the lay of the land.

You've got to understand the crime scene to truly understand the perpetrator. It is critical that we know that because again, whoever might have taken her, whoever might have harmed her, picked that location. So they picked it for a reason. So you've got to understand it. You've got to walk it. You've got to breathe it. You've got to touch it. That way

you can get a little bit of a window into who this person might have been that might have taken her. You know, Dr. Angie Arnold joining me, renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Dr. Angie, this is just reminding me of when I worked at the Macon Mall. I think I got my job in the 10th or 11th grade, and I would think nothing about parking in this vast parking lot, which this was the big thing for Macon. We had never had a mall that size before. And walking in and out, and and of course I was working at Sears Roebuck and there's a lot of disastrous stories about me working there in the lawnmower department the tool department the candy department where I ate everything that I earned but that said you know

when you're young at 16 you don't think anything can happen to you you pull into the first parking spot you can find and race in and never look back. That's right. I know because Nancy, if nothing ever has happened to you, then why would you think that something was going to happen to you? And that's what people live in. We can't all walk around every day living in fear that something's going to happen to us. So we protect ourselves from that.

And we don't walk around thinking that we're in fear, especially little 16-year-old girls that are thinking about buying shoe dye for a dance that they're going to. Not a care in the world. And so that made her very vulnerable. Take a listen to this. The store clerk confirmed that Conyers bought the dye. When Conyers did not come home, her parents reported her missing.

So we know she made it to the mall, Cheryl McCollum, because the store clerk confirmed she bought the dye, but then she never made it home. Can you imagine those hours when the parents, say two hours have passed, and that, I think, is when the parents would start noticing that something had gone wrong. She was just miles from home. So that means your timetable is even more narrow than it was before.

She should have been from the mall to home within minutes. So now, to me, it's even more disconcerting. Just minutes away, take a listen to Lieutenant Jackie Davis. On October 16th, Pam went to do what most teenagers do. She left to go run an errand at the Herondale Mall. And if you're familiar with our county at all, the Herondale Mall is actually only a few miles from here, right on Ritchie Highway near Aquahart Road. Pam never returned from running that errand. Later that evening, her family called to report her missing. Three days later, on October 19th, Pam's car was found abandoned on the side of Route 100 in the area we now know as

the Waterford Road overpass. Saturday morning, state and county police begin using a helicopter to search for the girl and the car. Late Monday afternoon, a man walking in the woods reported to police that he found a Dodge in an overgrown field about 100 yards off the car. Late Monday afternoon, a man walking in the woods reported to police that he found a Dodge in an overgrown field about 100 yards off the road. The next morning, an intense search of the wooded area surrounding the overgrown and deserted farm and its buildings began. You know, back to you, Cheryl McCollum, that tells me a lot because she's missing and the car has been left out in an overgrown field 100 yards off the road. Now, I find it very difficult to believe that this young girl who was just going to get shoe dye to match her dress for the dance is out in the middle of an overgrown field that far off the road.

And now the car is abandoned. Agreed. And that would have been in the dark of night. So we certainly don't believe that she would have driven there and then walked away, you know, in pitch black darkness that just doesn't check out. Now, wait a minute, wait a minute. I agree it was in the dark of night, but why are you saying it was in the dark of night? At some point, she would have been on foot at night. So she goes to the pep rally after the football game, then she goes to the ball.

Wait, I thought the pep rally, Dave Mack, I thought the pep rally was the last period of school on a Friday. In the way that this is understanding, they had a bonfire and pep rally. Okay, see, I thought there was a pep rally, then the bonfire on the school premises. But you're saying the bonfire was in the evening.

Yes, that's what we believe. Okay, now I get it. So now she goes to the bonfire in the evening, then she goes home, then the parents give her the gas money, then she goes to the mall. So Cheryl is exactly correct. And remember, Nancy, it's been three days, three days until they found the car. So now we're even more concerned because she's made contact with no one. Guys, just that scenario that Cheryl McCollum has pointed out is so true. Why would a young teen girl leave her car in the middle of an overgrown field and go out

on foot? It doesn't make sense. And very typically, James Shelnut joining me, high profile lawyer joining us from the Shelnut Law Firm at ShelnutLawFirm.com. But before he was a high profile lawyer, he was on a SWAT team and Metro made your case for many years. James Shelnut, when you're first looking at a case, you say, wow, that doesn't make sense. And right there, there should be a red flag waving in front of your eyes. Here's your first clue. Something that doesn't make sense. Absolutely. It was outside the ordinary if you if you take the situation as a whole the the context of the entire situation her her coming up missing her car being found in this deserted area all of those are completely inconsistent with what she

set out to do you know dr angie you were talking about um we choose to live in a bubble which we do unless you've been a crime victim or you're in the crime business like many of us are on this panel. It's easier and more comfortable to just go through life with blinders on and not suspect the person parked next to you in the parking garage. Here, it's easier to live in the bubble because she's just going down the street. This is like less than 10 minutes from the home, the mall that she went to to get the shoe dye. Yeah. So it was her own little bubble. And as they said, I'm actually very familiar with Anne Arundel County because my parents used to live

there. And it's very grown up now. There's lots of stuff around. A lot of military people live there because it's close to Annapolis. I think that people even feel more secure when they're in an area like, so I live in Atlanta. And so, Nancy, I live in the middle of the city. We have a very heightened awareness of what's going on here. But even a little bit outside of the city, people don't have the same heightened awareness of the crime that goes on in Atlanta, just a few miles away from them. So Anne Arundel County is a suburb.

And back then when this happened, it was very rural. So people really do have a sense that things are safe and nothing's going to happen to them because typically nothing does happen to them. Typically it is very safe. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Cheryl McCollum, this is taking me, taking my mind to a story that was our inaugural case when we started Crime Stories on Fox Nation. And it's the case of Chucky Mock. Absolutely. of Chucky Mock. It took place in Warner Robins. And just like here, Chucky comes in

and his mom is washing the dishes. And he goes, Hey, Mom, can I ride my bike to the corner store and get some candy? She goes, Sure. It was like four blocks away as the crow flies.

And he was killed. And she never thought twice about it because it was so close. It was right in the neighborhood. And she had that false sense of security. Well, it was also in the neighborhood. But even when he went to the store, several people that he knew saw him. He spoke to friends. He spoke to parents of friends. Lots of people saw him because they were running errands or they were at the store or they were at a red light. So even though she wasn't physically with him, he met people that he knew and could trust all along the way. Yeah, same thing here where the clerk says, yeah, she was here.

She bought her shoe, Diane left. Guys, take a listen to Chief Amal Awad. Pamela was a 16-year-old Anne Arundel County resident. She just attended the Glen Burnie High School homecoming bonfire and pep rally. She was quite simply doing what most 16 year old high school students did. She was living her life creating memories and spending precious moments with her family and friends. Simply celebrating and enjoying the essence of her teen years gosh and i remember that that would be the big thing when you would go to your prom or your homecoming dance and here

she is which many of us on this panel have done before dyeing your shoes to match your dress cheryl mccullum how many times did you dye your shoes for all the weddings you've attended? Honey, I got four sisters, so at least four that I can absolutely tell you happened. But can I point out one more thing about Herb Day? When she was at the bonfire, she was again surrounded by friends and teachers and coaches. Whenever we had our bonfires, always the coaches were on hand to put the fire out after all the kids left. So she was surrounded by people that cared about her and that she knew. Well, in addition to them, police were on it at the get-go. Take a listen to Dave Mack. Four detectives were assigned to the Pamela Conyers case full-time. More than 200 leads

were checked out. 25 suspects were picked up, interrogated, and then released after their alibis checked out. Within a month of Conyers' death, detectives had logged about 900 man hours looking for the killer. Clothing, dirt, and soil samples vacuumed from the car were sent to the FBI crime lab in Washington for analysis. That is a lot of manpower, James Shelnut. Well, it takes a lot of manpower. You know, you think about it now, we can track cell phones. You know, you can even pinpoint, you know, the IP addresses of cell phones that are in a certain geographic area at any point in time. You know, you have all these traffic cameras. So many tools have progressed for law enforcement. A lot. And I mean, look at this clothing, dirt and soil samples vacuumed from her car sent to the FBI crime lab in Quantico for analysis.

They're really doing everything they can think of, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, what does it what is involved in very simply getting the soil samples from the floor mats? That would be one of those clues that would be a money tree if it came back to something really unusual. For example, let's say somebody had been near a farm versus a red clay road. The dirt underneath the car versus the dirt on the inside of the car may tell you they got out at a certain place, not where that car was found, but earlier in the day they were somewhere different. And that would give them other places to possibly search for her or to ask for people, hey, did you see anything unusual?

Did you see this car earlier in the day in a place that it shouldn't have been? And when we hear 25 suspects very quickly picked up and interrogated, released on alibi, and I can tell you who they were right now. Her date to the dance the next night. Whoever she was hanging out with at the bonfire in the pep rally. Her dad probably. I mean, I've told you, I'm sure, that when I was speaking to Phil Vetrano, that's Karina Vetrano's dad. Karina, the Long Island jogger, she and her dad were supposed to go on a jog together.

He was down in the back, so she went without him, and she was attacked and murdered on that jog. At her funeral, they take Phil Vetrano out to get his DNA. Of course, he wasn't involved, but he's the dad who was supposed to go on the jog. He found her body. So they took his DNA. So I'm sure her date, a potential date, her current boyfriend, maybe an ex-boyfriend, maybe teachers, male teachers at the school. That right there, I'm racking up.

I mean, what about it, Cheryl? 25 people, Suspects. Absolutely. And then you have your usual suspects in town. Maybe somebody that has a past of hurting people. You've got maybe somebody that a student said, hey, this guy had a crush on her, but she was dating somebody else. That net gets tossed pretty wide pretty quick. Registered sex offenders, neighbors.

Absolutely. Piano teacher. Everybody. pretty wide, pretty quick. Registered sex offenders, neighbors, piano teacher, everybody. If they're a man, basically, they're going to be picked up, right? Correct. And that's something, again, they can go through very quickly. People are going to have alibis. People are going to be, you know, going to second jobs, you know, being seen at dinners, you know, staying after the bonfire and talking to other teachers. So again, they were able to get through some of these people and clear them fast. What do we know about her? Pam, take a listen to our friends at Unsolved Murders.

Do you know what her personality was like? Was she like anything like that? Yeah. From what I've heard, she was just really involved in a lot of different things. When I was in high school, my dad said that I reminded him of her because I did sports, singing, and volunteering, and clubs, and hands in a lot of different groups and knew a lot of people and everybody really liked her. He remembered that she was a popular kid and she was

older. She was in high school, he she was older. You know, she was in high school. He was still in middle school, but she was still, he got some of that like social status because she was still older and cool. I think she was a cheerleader and she did a lot of volunteering. I remember that from my dad. She was really involved with volunteering with the church.

And right there, that widens your group. Whoever was at the pep rally, if she was a cheerleader, they would have been watching her volunteer at the church okay there goes the youth minister and the pastor they're in the net to be questioned as well would you agree or disagree cheryl 100 agree take a listen again to our friends at unsolved murders of sister kathy did she just not return home and they started wondering where she was? Yes, and I think they actually got kind of a call out earlier because

there was that dance and there were people who were expecting her there. Our parents thought she didn't come home from the dance, but then her friends are calling because where is she? Why didn't she show up? It was the same night. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that. Yeah. Do you know if she had a date? I don't know if she had a date. I asked

my dad. I don't think I think he said he didn't remember. But I know that now that I've asked him about it, he's probably thought about it more. And more from our friends at WBAL. Pamela Lynn Conyers was a student at Glen Burnie High School and was last seen alive on October 16th after she went to Herondale Mall to run an errand. Her car was found three days later, her body less than 24 hours after that, on the side of what was then an under-construction Route 100. I remember that Monday morning I had trigonometry class with her and seeing her empty desk really brought it home made it real and again at that age i mean the the classmates think they're invincible and then they look over and there's

that empty desk back to potential clues uh straight back out to you james shelnut what if anything can be gathered from that car what evidence you know you could gather bodily fluids from that car. What evidence? You know, you could gather bodily fluids from that car. You could still at that point gather fingerprints from that car. Oftentimes, perpetrators will leave behind a piece of personal property, a receipt. You know, you've even seen cases where they leave a wallet behind. And all of those things will be taken and processed. And then a major turn in the investigation. Take a listen to Lieutenant Jackie Davis. Pam's car was found abandoned on the side of Route 100.

Unfortunately, less than 24 hours later, on October 20th, Pam's body was found just a short distance from where that vehicle was recovered. An autopsy was performed and the cause of Pam's death was ruled asphyxiation via strangulation and the manner a homicide. Officer Robert Schweitzer found Pamela Conyers' body about 300 yards from the car. She was lying on her side. Conyers was wearing slacks and a pullover sweater that had been turned inside out. Her underwear, her purse, and the car keys were missing. Tire tracks led off the little used farm road into the woods. Plaster cast of the tires lead police to believe the Conyers Dodge was what was used to enter the woods. The police chief said he thought Pamela Conyers had been rolled out of the car door. How they know that is amazing. Joining me right now, very well-known medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist,

and author of American Narcan, Nexolone and Heroin Fentanyl Associated Mortality, Dr. William Maroney. Dr. Maroney, thank you for being with us. Explain what we're hearing about this teen girl, Pam Conyers' body. Well, the important thing is we look at the science of what's happened. They said clearly this is asphyxia by strangulation. So there was either a line, a cord, or hands that went around her throat. And we look for bone damage and muscle bruising in the throat.

And then we look for signs of blood pressure that are indicative of hemorrhages in the eyes. And those things show us strangulation and asphyxia. Asphyxia is somebody stopped her from breathing. Now, if it was just plain asphyxia, somebody put their hand over her mouth, then you wouldn't have the bruised muscles in the neck and you wouldn't have bone damage in the cartilage below the jaw in the neck. It's very specific. They said strangulation. That's a very specific process. And that's not a random thing. That's not an accident thing. You can't have that happen. That's premeditated. And the other part that really bothered me is her underwear was missing.

That is heinous. How do you know that is manual strangulation versus ligature strangulation? Okay. The big difference in autopsy is when somebody comes in with a ligature, they have what is called a furrow. You see it also in hanging, that above and below the ligature, there's specific indentations that come from a wire or a cord or a rope. And it's almost like tire treads in a snow or tire treads for automobile tires, very specific patterns. Whereas when somebody is strangled, those finger marks oftentimes represent bruising in the muscles. And sometimes it shows up on the skin so that you can tell if somebody was strangled from behind then the finger marks are in the front of the throat if they were strangled face to face then those finger marks will make bruises on the back of

the neck and on the front of the neck you'll have a specific pattern where the thumbs are. And those thumbs can break or damage the bones in the neck also. That's hands versus ligatures, very specific. And you can tell that like night and day. And of course, with some other type of asphyxiation like suffocation, like putting a pillow over somebody's head or your hand over their mouth and you pinch their nose, you don't get any of the furrows to the neck or any damage to the cartilage around the neck or the jaw. So that's how you know it's not just a suffocation.

Correct. Absolutely. Okay. Why do the eyes, the little vessels in the eye, why do they hemorrhage or blow up? That is because of the plumbing in the neck that goes to the head. The arteries that carry the blood to the head and go up are very central and they're protected. They're around the spinal cord and the bones of the spine, and they're high pressure, so they don't compress. The blood returning from the head, venous blood coming back from the head and going down, is much lower pressure.

So when your perpetrator strangles you, whether it's hands or ligature, the pressure on the outside shuts off the return flow from the head before it would affect the arterial blood that goes upwards and sends pressure. So you have a pressure mismatch. You're no longer taking blood out of the head. You're putting blood into the head, and that's why the eyes hemorrhage. So, Dr. Maroney, you state that the eyes and the tiny hemorrhages in those minuscule blood vessels indicate asphyxiation, be it suffocation or strangulation. Yes. Are there any telltale signs in the mouth or the nose or the throat?

Well, those have alternative pathways of fluid. They have lymph, they have other flow and a lot more tissue. The reason why you see it first in the eyes is those vessels are very delicate. Some of the vessels in the mouth and in the neck and the nose, they're not as delicate as the eyes. So the eyes demonstrate the pressure mismatch in strangling. But if somebody strangled very, very long, you'll see those kinds of hemorrhages or you'll see the results of that pressure mismatch, like a lot of fluid built up in the sinuses. You'll see that same thing but the eyes are delicate because the vasculature is very small so it's the first thing to blow out when you say vasculature small you mean the blood vessels are so small and tiny and fragile crime stories with nancy grace cheryl mccollum so we understand from dr william maroney joining us about the mode of murder murder but there is a neon sign saying she was raped as well absolutely and redressed so the

fact that her underwear is missing her top is inside out but put back on her and she's wearing pants but again the underwear being missing the top up you know inside out that absolutely would to me make you consider that she was sexually assaulted and that the person kept a trophy, her underwear. Dr. Angie Arnold joining us, renowned psychiatrist out of Atlanta. Dr. Angie, this is reminding me so much of Ted Bundy because he would rape his victims, murder his victims or or murder them, venerate them, but then would go through elaborate acts of bathing their bodies and applying makeup, fixing their hair, and redressing them. You know, I heard your groan of disgust, but you're the psychiatrist.

I was expecting a little more. But I know Nancy, but if I feel disgusted by that, I imagine everybody that's listening feels disgusted by that, I imagine everybody that's listening feels disgusted by that. It just means that they, you know, they had this weird attachment to the person that they that they performed this hideous act on. And that's how they like finished it. You have to wonder what kind of attachment Ted Bundy developed with his victims. Post-mortem even. Yes, post-mortem attachment to his victims.

It's just, you know, if I feel like it's creepy and I've seen everything, then I know all of your viewers feel that exact same way. That's why my little act of disgust okay guys so now we know why it was a sex-motivated attack we think we know how strangulation asphyxiation by strangulation only question who take a listen now to foul play crime season my dad had the version that i heard growing up was that she was kidnapped from a mall and that was always a big thing because my dad didn't like being out of malls when i was a teenager and that she was abducted and she was missing and then she was found and had been sexually assaulted and murdered and they always thought it was the hell's angels or something like that why do you think your family thought that was what happened

i honestly have no idea that was kind of the end of it was just somebody that was passing through town wasn't any more evidence or whatever okay the hell's angels have done plenty wrong but they also when you don't know who did it blame hell's angels but then the case takes a very bizarre turn in its investigation take a list of mark roper wmar pamela had been missing for four days before her body was discovered police say she went to a homecoming bonfire and pep rally at glenn bernie high school on oct 16th. Later that night, she drove her family's Dodge Monaco to the Harundel Mall in Glen Burnie. That's the last place anyone saw Pamela alive. Now, the tie to the murder of Sister Kathy Sesnick is that a chaplain at Archbishop Keough High

School in Baltimore, Reverend Joseph Maskell, was accused of sexually assaulting several teenage girls. Many of those girls had confided in Sister Kathy, and police suspected Reverend Maskell killed Sister Kathy in an effort to cover his tracks. We've all heard about the murder of Sister Kathy, Sister Kathy Sesnick, and many believe that Reverend Maskell killed her in order to keep his own crimes covered up. Because many young girls apparently confessed to her that they had been sex assaulted. So somehow now Pam Connor's murder and sex attack has now been dragged into the Sister Kathy investigation. Listen to more. His body was exhumed to see if his DNA would connect him to the crime, but investigators didn't find a match.

Police had wondered if Sister Kathy's death was connected to the deaths of Pamela Conyers and two other young women who all disappeared around the same time. 20-year-old Joyce Malecki disappeared from a Glen Burnie shopping mall four days after Sister Sednik disappeared. And 16-year-old Grace Montaigne disappeared from a shopping mall northwest of Baltimore. Each of their bodies was found in a different law enforcement jurisdiction. And to this day, not one of these cases has been solved. But then seemingly out of the blue, police chief Amal Awad makes this announcement. We've asked you to join us here this morning to announce we've identified the

suspect in the murder of Pamela Lynn Conyers. That suspect is Forrest Clyde Williams III. Forrest Clyde Williams III? Who is that? Take a listen to WBAL. Forrest Williams III grew up around here and went to Northeast High School in Pasadena, authorities said today. And this booking photo they put up behind the podium, taken by Anne Arundel County Police months after the homicide during Williams' arrest for unrelated charges. Detectives and investigators have not ruled out the possibility that another person or persons may be involved in Pam's murder. Even though, like he said, there's not 100% closure, there's something, you know, there's a person.

And take a listen to Thomas Sobiskinsy at the FBI. We are pleased to deliver a measure of justice for Pamela Conyers and her loved ones. Pamela was a smiling and her loved ones. Pamela was a smiling 16-year-old going shopping at the mall. Her life was viciously taken away from her. Now, after more than half a century, the FBI, through investigative genetic genealogy, have helped identify the man who killed Pamela. We hope this offers some consolation to those who loved her.

When Pamela was murdered, investigative genetic genealogy did not exist. DNA analysis did not exist. The tools, both scientific and investigative, used to solve her murder have evolved. Straight out to a very special guest joining us. She's brilliant. It's Cece Moore, Chief Genetic Genealogist at Parabon Nano Labs. You can find her at parabon.com. Cece, thank you for being with us.

Explain how the case of this missing teen girl, Pam Conyers, was cracked. There was a stain on her coat that was a mixture. And part of that mixture was a semen sample that our scientists were able to deconvolute from that mixture. And then a DNA profile was created and uploaded to the GEDmatch database where distant cousins were identified. Family trees were built backward and forward and backward and forward. Three different common ancestral couples were identified and eventually that led to Forrest Williams. Okay, let me understand in regular people talk. So there was a semen stain on her coat, right? Correct. Okay. And they wisely preserved it at the time. Correct. They preserved the coat. So it's unclear exactly when they first

found that DNA, but it was sent to Parabon in 2018. When you get a very old sample like that, what do you do, CeCe Moore? Well, it is typically quite degraded, as was the case with this sample. And it was also a mixture. So our bioinformatics scientists had to deconvolute that, meaning extract out the perpetrator's DNA from that minor contributor that was also in that mix. So that semen sample is obviously what is of interest to us. Once we are able to pull out that perpetrator's DNA from that mixture and create a SNP file, that can be compared against the people that have uploaded their DNA into the GEDmatch and FamilyTreeDNA databases looking for

distant relatives. So GEDmatch is a public genealogical website, correct? Like, there's no privacy to it. It's people trying to find relatives, basically. Correct. But people's DNA file is still private. There's a lot of misconceptions about this. None of us can see someone's DNA file or their DNA code. All we get is a list of matches of people who share DNA with that unknown suspect. So there is still some privacy involved. But you're correct. It's a public database. Okay.

So once you put you at Parabon NanoLabs, put the sperm sample DNA that you extract from the sperm, you download it, and you see distant relatives. And then you start narrowing down, you go from the top, like great-grandparents down to grandparents, to the time of the incident. And then you try to figure out who would have been living there at that time. Exactly. We also had a snapshot phenotype, so we had a prediction of what this individual's traits might be, hair color, eye color, skin color, etc. So, we're looking for someone of the right gender, right age range, right place, right time, who also fits with those predicted traits. So, phenotyping is when you get DNA and you can't match it to anyone, but you can get, for instance, skin color, hair color, eye color, and other characteristics.

Correct. So that SNP file has a lot of information about that unknown perpetrator. It can connect to that person's relative, but it can also tell you what they may have looked like. So thanks to Cece Moore and others at Pirabon Nanolab, we have an answer. This case that had plagued her friends and family for so many years now has something to hold on to. Remember at the time they thought it was, quote, someone just passing through and no one had any peace at all? Listen to her classmates speaking to WJZ. Forrest Clyde Williams III died in 2018 due to natural causes.

Police say if he was still alive today, he definitely would have been charged. Some people at the announcement today, some people that knew Conyers even an old classmate for them today was a very surreal moment I remember that Monday morning I had trigonometry class with her and seeing her empty desk really brought it home for nearly 53 years Pamela Conyers death has been top of mind for Michael Golden. He didn't know her too well, but they went to Glen Burnie High School together. He's not alone. It's something that all of our classmates, all of our peers have been struggling with or, you know, grappling with for all these years. It's what drew him to Anne Arundel County Police Headquarters, where we all learned Forrest Clyde Williams III has

been named a suspect, the result of tireless work spanning decades. Thanks to hardworking investigators at the time, police that did everything right, and our friends at Parabon Nano Lab, we finally have a name to fit with the specter of a killer. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.