Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Teen Perp Accused in Rape, Death of LSU Coed CHARGED AS ADULT

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

The minor accused of raping Madison Brooks in the back seat of a car will be tried as an adult.  Desmond Carter, 17, has been  indicted for first-degree rape and third-degree rape.  Kaivon Washington, 18, is also charged with third-degree rape. Everette Lee, 28, and Casen Carver, 18, were charged with principal to third-degree rape, which means they were there when the incident occurred but did not take part in it.  LSU student Madison Brooks is killed after being hit by a car. Brooks was standing in the road at the time.   Police say Brooks left a Tigerland bar with four men. Two of the men, then allegedly rape the very inebriated 19-year-old. When Brooks cannot give the men her address, she is dropped off around 3 a.m. in a random neighborhood. That is when Brooks is hit by the car. That driver showed no signs or evidence of being impaired.   At first police said the suspects videotaped the assault but in the last hours, recanted those comments and apologized for the error.  There is,  however, a video of Brooks arguing with the men in the car.  The four men who left with Brooks claim the sex was consensual, but hospital staff says Brooks' blood alcohol level was nearly 4 times the legal limit.   Nancy Grace discusses the latest in the case with Atlanta Attorney and LSU grad Renee Rockwell.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The LSU community still reeling following the rape of a beautiful young co-ed. Not just a rape, but a gang rape, according to local prosecutors. I'm talking about none other than LSU co-ed Maddie Brooks, Madison Brooks. In the last hours, we learned one of the alleged rapists will be tried as an adult. It is a 17-year-old young man, Desmond Carter. He is charged in first and third degree rape.

She then gets out of the car and is almost immediately mowed down in oncoming traffic. She's just let out. She's extremely inebriated, let out on the street, and almost immediately is mowed down dead. The heartache her parents must be suffering. But I want to go out to high-profile defense lawyer who has defended many, many rapes and assorted sex crimes, as well as drug defendants, knows her way around the courtroom. Also attended school there in New Orleans. Very familiar with the lay of the land and with the location where Maddie was not only assaulted repeatedly, but where she was mowed down dead.

With me, veteran trial lawyer Renee Rockwell out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Renee, the news, there's so many headlines this morning, but one of them is that the 17-year-old Desmond Carter will be treated as an adult. I assume you disagree with that. Well, Nancy, of course, now we know his name. It's been sealed up to the point where the district attorney has decided to treat him as an adult. So now we know who it is, 17 and going to be tried as an adult. Yeah. So the question becomes.

She was 18. And she's dead. Right. Yes. So the question becomes, she was 18 and she's dead, right? Yes. And is this something that could appropriately be handled in juvenile court? Correction. I think the victim may be 19, but that said, she's a teen girl. Did you say, could his case be handled appropriately in juvenile?

Renee, please, you know when I went to the DA's office, going to juvie was one, as part of the rotation, my boss, Mr. Slayton, Louis Slayton, one of the longest serving elected district attorneys in the country, would have to do indictments, they wouldn't have to do grand jury, they wouldn't go to juvie. and get slapped on the wrist exactly you that there's my argument juvie is not a that's not a trial some judges juvenile judges want you to just sit around a table with a psychologist and go what would be best for the defendant what we don't plea in juvenile court you don't plead guilty or not guilty. You either accept responsibility, admit, or you don't admit. There's no such word as guilty and not guilty in juvenile court.

The question becomes to the district attorney in Baton Rouge, is this appropriate for juvenile court? And they have said it is not, charging him as an adult. Let me ask you a question, Renee. I assume you've heard of the seven deadlies, seven felony crimes for which it's almost de facto that a juvenile will be bound over or sent to the correct court, i.e. felony adult court. The seven deadlies. Let's see if we can remember them between the two of us. Maybe we can. Of course, murder, rape, sodomy, child molestation, armed robbery, aggravated assault, and arson. Oh, I think I got them all. Did I miss something? I think that... And there you go. Kidnapping with injury. There's only seven. So, sodomy must fall into sex crimes. Aggravated sodomy. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

That's right. That's right. So this is one of the seven deadlies. So it's almost a given he's going to be treated as an adult. I'm not sure what you think the cutoff would be. Maybe under 15, such as 14 and under. Maybe that would be an age a judge may not bind over, but most likely, yes. Now, let's clear up one common misconception when a juvenile is treated as an adult.

They will be tried in adult court, but they don't go into GP, general population, at an adult facility. They go into a juvenile facility, you know, like Alto in your jurisdiction. A young man would go to Alto. You don't really see a whole lot of teen girls treated as an adult because they don't typically commit violent crimes. So what would your argument be in front of the judge to get this case sent back to GV Court? Well, you look at a judge, try to look at a judge with a straight face in this. She's telling the truth. That is exactly what they do. They look at the judge and try to keep a straight face. Would you try to start crying, Renee? Would you start crying and have the mom on the front row crying really loudly about her son that would never do anything like this?

Yes. And it's his first offense. And judge, he wasn't part of the, he wasn't part of the, that's what he said. I would expect you to argue that because the juvenile records are kept secret, so the prosecutor really wouldn't know unless they jumped through a bunch of hoops whether or not this was his first offense or not. Okay, so tell me again, what would you argue? And then just to mention, though, back to what happens, as long as he's a juvenile, he is in the YDC, the youth detention center. But then once he becomes an adult, he moves right over with the big boys, you know. But again,

if he's convicted, he's not going to go to adult jail. No. Well, no, no, no. If he is a juvenile being treated as an adult, he stays in juvenile detention until he becomes an adult. Right. At which point he's moved over to the adult jail. So he'll stay in juvenile jail until he's either 18 or 21, depending on the jurisdiction. Then he'll go with the adults. But frankly, on a rape conviction, he'll be out in like seven years. However, this is exacerbated because she was mowed down in traffic and killed Renee. crime stories with nancy grace

hey i've got another headline to throw at you with me is renee rockwell high profile lawyer and veteran defense attorney out of the atlanta jurisdiction but you really practice in multiple jurisdictions, aren't you? Licensed to practice, let's see. I know back home in Louisiana, where I guess you're an expert in Napoleonic code. Okay. Are you licensed in Florida as well? No, Texas, Louisiana, Georgia. I knew there was another one in there and you know what else they'll have Nancy and you can tell your client a thousand times there will be jail calls oh yeah and the only thing worse than talking about a case on the jail phone is talking in code about the case on the jail phone explain so instead of saying okay mama this is exactly what happened they sit there and they'll

talk about the case and they'll talk in some broken up code language and the danger of that nancy is an investigator gets on the stand with the district attorney's office or the police department and says this is what what he really saying, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. He was really saying blank. And he had the cunning to try and hide it. Give me an example, if you don't mind. So let's talk about a drug case. Well, mom, he called me up and he said he really just wanted, you know wanted a case of tomatoes. And I talked to him about going over there and we were going to mow the grass. Just the code talk.

That sounds like a date deal. I've got one for you now. And I can't take credit for this, I'm sorry to say. This is from Sally Thompson on Twitter. This is about the Murdoch case. Listen, Alex Murdoch. Mags and Pawpaw had been talking to Ro-Ro, Staky Leg, Little Jimmy, and Fathead, who had heard about pill pills from Handsome and Dibble Dabble, who told Buss Buss and Em, who threatened to call the po-po on the talkie-talkie.

Wait a minute. One more time. Okay. Who is Sally Thompson, whoever she is? I love you, woman. Okay. Alex Murdyke case. Mags and Pawpaw have been talking to Ro-Ro, Stanky Leg, Lil' Jimmy, and Fat Head

who heard about Peel Peels from Handsome and Dibble Dabble who told Bust Bust and Em who threatened to call the popo on the talkie talkie. There you go. I'd have to have a chart. You know how the English teachers, I would sit there in English going, what? With a diagram of sentence. That's what I'd have to do with some of this. But yes, we got some tomatoes and we took them over to Dodo's and then we mowed the green grass pot.

Blah, blah, blah. Yes, yes. I love it when they talk in code because it shows not only did they do it, but they are cunning and artful enough to try to hide it on a jail call and that they know that jail calls are recorded. You only learn that from experience. Okay, so the next thing. But here's what happens, Nancy. What? Also, each prisoner has their own PIN number.

And they think in some form or fashion that, let's say you and I are in prison or in jail. Let's don't. Let's say you're in jail. Okay. Okay. Let's say I're in jail. Okay. Let's say I'm in jail with my other best friend and I use her PIN number and she uses my

PIN number. Oh, that's sneaky. How long is it going to take? How long is it going to take for the police to figure that out? Okay. Oh, wait. I've actually seen a case like that. I didn't know it was so common.

You know who I love and the blabbing behind bars? Talk about Casey Anthony. You know, in Florida, they video and tape everything. And they had her just cursing out her parents and nutting up totally when they would say so where's Kelly she'd go cray on them then another one I really liked was um do you remember Haley Cummings you and I talked about that so many times when Haley went missing out of her Florida home. On the jail phone calls, the ones that were videoed, somebody was there talking to them. She said, why won't that Nancy Grace shut up?

Did you hear her talking about her child dropped some Chick-fil-A nuggets on the floor? She was so hungry that she ate one off the floor. She's nasty. And then she goes off. Misty Crosland, yes. They'll say anything. and they're not thinking that it's all being recorded. You led me down the garden path. The defense attorneys claim that

Maddie Madison Brooks consented to sex. She gets out of the car and is mowed down by another vehicle that kills her. Prosecutors say all four of the suspects had been at the bar where Madison was also drinking in Baton Rouge that night. Where she was a minor. 19 is a minor there, correct? She was a minor. What's Tigerland? Tigerland is off campus, down the road a bit, very far but a number of students live in apartments and the the apartments have bars that are throughout walking distance don't have

to drive and in this case Nancy it was as everybody describes it, an animal house, wall-to-wall people, elbow, standing room only. You're just rubbing at each other's elbows. But the problem with all of this is there's video. You know what's interesting? You just reminded me of something, and I think it was one of your cases. But I remember going to so many strip clubs trying to find witnesses. When you go to an establishment like the bar we're talking about. It's not a strip club, but it made me remember going to places like bars, like strip clubs, and other lawyers would say,

you're going to bring a witness from a strip club or a bar that was drunk that night? And you know, Renee, as I would tell the jury up front, sometimes you got to go to hell to get the witness to put the devil in jail. So, of course, everybody at this bar was drinking. And Maddie's no exception. But you know what, Renee? Don't you get sick? And I know you in a lot of cases, a lot of jury trials. But don know what, Renee? Don't you get sick, and I know you in a lot of cases, a lot of jury trials, but don't you get sick of rape victims somehow turning into the bad person,

they're the bad guy, because they were drinking or drunk. I mean, it happens over and over. It's called victim blaming, and it does happen all the time in sex offenses like this it's called victim blaming and you know maddie's family now has an attorney yes good i want them to have a lawyer and it's a shame that the victim's lawyer the victim's family has to have a darn attorney. But that's just the way of the world now. There you go. And the question becomes, will there be a lawsuit?

I know the attorney has gone on the record and said, we're not worried about it now. Well, I bet they'll get worried before that statute of limitations passes. Explain. I hope they do. Well, in a case like in Louisiana louisiana it's called dram shop it's called what and the question becomes dram shop okay question dram shop okay i thought you were throwing a little cajun dialect at me but you're saying dram shop okay the question becomes is the bar liable because of the excessive amount of alcohol is the bar liable for the injury because you know bars make money when they're serving this

this alcohol and should there have been some safeguards to keep children, minors, out of the bar? That's going to be the question. You know, I can understand you a lot better now than I could the first time you pranced into the courtroom in a pair of purple cowboy boots. I knew right then, okay, I want to know her. I don't know who she is or what she is, but I want to find out. Because then your Louisiana accent was so heavy. And yes, that has been said of me in a different way. But I can understand you a lot better. But when you said dram shop, you really threw me. You know what's interesting, Renee? I started saying, you know, how many times have I said to a jury, what do you want, a video? In this case, they have a video. The state is saying it proves non-consent because she was so drunk. She couldn't give consent.

And that is borne out by the BAC blood alcohol content. You don't have to fight and get a black eye and have your clothes torn off for there to not be consent. Do you remember there was a time, Renee, when there had to be, the jury expected there to be some showing of fighting back, like a bruise, like torn clothing, a black eye. That's not required anymore. Not in a case, Nancy, where because of the alcohol content in the blood, there's no ability to give consent. That's going to be the question in this case.

Just like a minor in many jurisdictions under 16, that number, that age number is different in different jurisdictions. A minor cannot give consent to a sex act just like a minor that would be like John David Lucy going in trying to buy a house or a contract for a car or buying cigarettes or booze oh in oh a minor is deemed under the law not to have the mental or emotional capacity to enter into any such agreement including enter into willing sex. So like a minor, if you're totally drunk, Jackie, what was her BAC? I think it was.3 something.

.319 is what I heard. I think you're right. .319. I know it's.3 something. Isn't the legal limit in Louisiana.08? That's what my understanding is, Nancy. I am a Louisiana lawyer. Don't practice there now. So that is almost, what, four times the amount? Yes, yes. Well, actually,.319 would round up to 32. So yes, it is four times the amount. That means she cannot give consent regardless of her age. I don't know what the age of consent is there,

but it's irrelevant because of her high BAC blood alcohol content. And Nancy, in Louisiana now, it used to be 10 to 2. You needed only 10 to convict. Now you need a unanimous jury. The question becomes, can a defense attorney look at a jury and convince one person that these alleged suspects thought that she was willing to engage in this sex act. Another thing has happened, Renee. LSU student Maddie Brooks and her alleged rapist were seen arguing as she steps out of the car just moments before a ride-share driver mowed her down. The footage was again taken by one of the four and was released by their defense attorneys last week. And she is clear, she's slurring, she's clearly drunk. She says

something like, I'm sorry I offended you that bad. And one of the guys said, take her home. And she is apparently upset by what happened in the vehicle and says, I'll get an Uber. I will Uber on my own. Her speech is so slurred. Renee, I don't know how they think that's going to help the defense. Well, obviously. And here's what happens, Nancy. You've got four co-defendants.

You could have 10 co-defendants. You could have ten co-defendants. One person introduces the video and it's going to be used against everybody. Oh yeah. Do you think they'll be tried together? I do. I do think they'll be tried together. I do not believe there will be a severance. Although all four are going to want a

severance. In other words, each one is going to want their own separate individual trial. That is is going to want their own separate individual trial. That is not going to happen. Well, it depends on the statements that may have been made. Just to wrap it up, it's a bit early now because we don't know what each individual's exact statement was. If it's my client, you're not saying anything. You know, what Renee just said is absolutely correct. You know, do you remember when I had to try Henry Hamilton? May he rot in hell.

Just so you know, parole turned him down a couple of months ago. Henry Hamilton was a co-defendant with another guy. His name is going to come back to me. And the two of them had just gotten out of jail and they sneak up on this couple, not far from where you live, Renee, really nice area, sneak up on them. And they had just gotten engaged and they were toasting out on the patio. They had champagne. They were toasting the engagement. And these two sneak up. They kill the man who happened to be a brother of an APD, I might add. And they start chasing the woman. Anyway, all that happened when I was in law school.

I didn't know anything about it. I come to the DA's office, start trying murders, and the case gets reversed. All the way up, I guess, at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and it had to be retried. Remember I went to the evidence room and I found one x-ray, which I couldn't even tell what it was, and a hat that said, kiss my bass. That's all the evidence that the evidence room, the property room had moved a couple of times since the case was tried and all the evidence had been displaced. Do you remember

that case? I remember the case Nancy and not only does evidence get misplaced but people get lost. I know I had two witnesses die. And people start to forget. And I'm working up to a point, go with me on this that

the reason that case was reversed was because of interlocking statements. In other words, Renee and I rob a bank with her, Jackie. And we all give a statement. Jackie blames me. I blame Renee. Renee blames Jackie. And we're all tried together. And then those statements come in. Now, here blames Jackie. And we're all tried together. And then those statements come in.

Now here's the kick. Under the Fifth Amendment, you don't have to take the stand. But if a statement comes in against you, and that defendant doesn't take the stand, you don't have a right to cross-examine them. And they have said in their statement, it was you. And then Jackie doesn't take the stand, so I can't cross-examine her when she blamed me in that case Renee all those statements came in they were tried together with interlocking statements blaming each other so the case got reversed I had to

retry Henry Hamilton and our friend Al Dixon retried the other guy. So, Renee, that's why, as you accurately pointed out, these guys may get separate trials. Oh, I bet the DA will be steamed about that, having to do the same thing four times over, having to go through all of that over and over and over. There's one way around it, Renee. They could redact the statements. Or they could give somebody a deal or give a few of them a deal to get on the stand and testify. If there's a deal,

it'll probably be the one that did not actually rape her. The one that didn't commit the rape, I would guess, would get a deal. Okay, Renee, we'll wait as justice unfolds in this case. God willing, it will be fair and swift. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.