Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TENDER-HEART SINGER SONGWRITER 'MUTILATED' Walking Dog, Atlanta's Piedmont Park

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Katherine Janness, 40, told her fiancee, Emma Clark, she was taking a walk with their dog, Bowie, and was never seen alive again. When Janness failed to return home, Clark reportedly traced the victim by using a phone app and found both Janness and Bowie dead at the entrance of the park. An officer with the Atlanta Police Department said the victim was stabbed numerous times.Joining Nancy Grace today: Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, www.ccealaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, ColdCaseCrimes.org, @ColdCaseTips Michael Seiden - Reporter, WSB-TV in Atlanta, Twitter: @SeidenWSBTV, Instagram: @mseiden1120  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a beautiful young woman, a singer-songwriter working multiple jobs, go for a walk with her dog and end up brutally stabbed dead? Right now, no answers to the mystery surrounding the death of beautiful Katie Janis. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want you to hear part of what we have become privy to. This is part of the 911 call.

Take a listen to our cut one. Tyler, roll it. Because I can't find her. She's dead. She's here. I need my bike. Please help. You said somebody's dead. They need my bike? Yes, Bill. Please send help. Please. All right. Yes, ma'am. I'll send help to you.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. All right. Can I get your name? We're going to play more of that 911 call, but I wanted you to hear that first because a lot of aspersions have been thrown around about the roommate, the partner, Katie Jenis finding the body. I don't go along with that.

I think we need to be looking for the right person, the real killer. And you're going to understand what I'm talking about in just one moment. In the middle of all this, there is talk of a so-called serial killer to muddy the waters. There is another young girl found dead about 20 miles away, also murdered in a public park the very same night. Are the two connected? I say no. Let me introduce to you an all-star panel to help break it down and put it back together again. First of all, an attorney, you know him well.

He practices all over the country. Daryl Cohen joining us, former prosecutor in this jurisdiction, now defense attorney, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, Dr. Angela Arnold, a specialist in not only this area, but many others. Also with me, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott Morgan, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and the star of a brand new series, The Pipeton Massacre on iHeart.

Cheryl McCollum and Boyd Dewey, need a forensic expert, founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. But first, to Michael Seiden, special guest joining us from WSB-TV. On Twitter, you can find him at Sidon WSBTV. Michael, a lot of people are throwing stones at the victim because she was out late that night walking her dog, Bowie. But the reality is, you know, Michael, when I was working in the DA's office, I lived about three blocks from this murder. And many a time I would work very late at the courthouse and then go out

to jog or walk. Yeah, it sounds crazy now, but at the time I didn't think anything of it. And I don't like the victim being dragged through the mud. And I also want to point out, is it true, Michael Seiden, that not only was Katie Janis brutally stabbed dead right there in Piedmont Park, but her dog was stabbed, too. Yeah, you know, Nancy, this is a heinous murder that we have going. And in fact, last week, I actually got a chance to speak with Katie Janis' partner, Emma Clark, who made that gruesome discovery. And she even talked about how she's had to deal with it on social media and people pointing a finger, possibly at her and also hearing the criticism. But you have to understand, as you're familiar with this area, but for your listeners who aren't familiar with Atlanta, this is in the heart of the city, Piedmont Park. So this is if you live in the city, this is your green space. You don't have a big backyard.

You can run around like somebody in the suburbs so it's not unusual uh you know i've got a number of co-workers who live near that park they told me when they get off to work late at night they go for walks um obviously you stay vigilant but uh this again is just so so brutal and you talk about the injuries that were found um at the scene i mean first you have 40 year old katie jeunesse she was left disfigured. And then the dog Bowie, a pit bull as well. And just so, so awful. And again, this is really shaking up that entire community. It's a very vibrant LGBTQ community. Hold on just a moment right there. I want to talk to you about something. You said she was left disfigured, but I want to go into the thinking of the crime

because that's how it's going to get solved. Who would take the time and be motivated to also stab the dog dead? That is actually, Michael Seiden, very, very rare. This part is used by families with children. I have run this part, I guess, Jackie, I've run this part a million times. During the decade plus time I was at the district attorney's office, and then before that with the feds, I would run that part two or three times a day. So it's not just her out with her dog. There's families out there. There's children out there. And not only that, it is directly adjacent to the single most exclusive country club in the city of Atlanta, the Piedmont Driving Club. So everybody needs to be on board with finding this gorgeous young woman's killer.

Now, my question to you, Michael Seiden, you use the word disfigured. Why did you say that? When you have police coming out and basically calling this an unusual and unique crime that Atlanta has never experienced. Again, those are the words from the deputy chief at the Atlanta Police Department who has been working with the homicide detectives, not to mention you bring in the FBI. As you know, as a former prosecutor, you don't bring the FBI in just for a city murder. This is something truly a whodunit, but this is something when they found the body, it was so gruesome, the cuts and the injuries that were left behind.

Okay, I gotcha. Daryl Cohen joining me, former prosecutor, along with me in this jurisdiction where the body has been found. It's not that far from the courthouse. And as I said, Daryl Cohen, I'm sure you're familiar with Penn Avenue. I lived about three blocks from where Katie has been butchered. And my now husband lived about seven blocks from where Katie is butchered. And they're turning this Daryl Cohen into, oh, she was jogging at night with her dog. So what if she was? That does not in any way indicate this is her fault. And Daryl, another thing, I started getting floods of texts. Hey, Katie's case has been solved. It was the girlfriend. It's not. The girlfriend wife found the body because she used the phone app.

Where's my iPhone? And it led her to the body. She is in no way implicated in this. Daryl Cohen, let's talk about the fact that Michael Sy, WSB-TV, joining us today, says that she was, quote, disfigured, and cops are saying they haven't seen anything like it. That tells me a lot about the gruesome factor of this murder. Well, Nancy, I'm very familiar. I actually went to Grady High as a student or alleged student. And I'm very familiar with the Piedmont Park area and grew up in Ansley Park, actually in Sherwood Forest, next to Ansley Park. But let me say that I think there are two separate issues that we have.

No, she's a victim. It was not her partner, her roommate. It was her as a victim. But I think we also have to say there's not one but two issues. The first issue is S-T-A-Y-S-A-F-E. Stay safe. Don't do dumb things. She obviously thought she had her dog who who was a pit bull, who would protect her, and she wasn't worried. But everybody needs to be concerned. What's a wonderful part during the day, during the daylight hours, is not necessarily, as we have found out, a safe place to be. But this is the type of slashing, the amount of times that she was stabbed. It is something that we don't know.

I personally believe it was somebody at random who was vicious, who was going to kill her or maybe whoever happened to be there and had to kill the dog. Because as we've been pointed out, it is a pit bull who probably would have attacked or tried to attack the killer. So there are all sorts of issues. And the fact that the FBI is there is a pit bull who probably would have attacked or tried to attack the killer. So there are all sorts of issues. And the fact that the FBI is there is a great thing, not a bad thing. You know, that's a really good point you brought up, Daryl Cohen, about killing the dog because it would have been, it would have attacked the killer. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about a beautiful young woman, now dead. And what cops are saying is one of the single most gruesome scenes they've seen

and that they, quote, have never seen anything like it. And I'm telling you right now, I have seen so many homicide crime scenes, bodies at the morgue. For a cop to say this stabbing is unlike anything we've seen, it must be really bad. I played you part of the original 911 call. Let's take a listen to more from that. When I kick off a jury trial, one of the first things I try to do is play the 911 call because it takes you to the scene, to the time of the murder, and you can learn so much. So, Tyler, let's roll our cut to and listen to more of that 911 call. Where is she at in the park? Near the entrance.

I don't know. I don't know. Can you just see that? That's my girlfriend. What the? Yeah. All right. Please. Oh, my God.

It seems like she's dead, Dad. Like, it's so... All right. I'm about to call Grady, okay? Please. You can hear the distress in her voice, the pain and the suffering and the shock of finding Katie Janis stabbed dead in what we believe to have been a horrible and brutal crime scene. I want to point out something that has just happened. In the last hours, we learned that, I hope you're sitting down for this, you may need to lay down,

the cameras in the park were installed, according to my research, in 2008. Wait for it. And they're now out of mode. Nobody can pull up the pictures or the video on the cameras because it doesn't sync with modern day technology. What the H-E-double-L has the government been thinking about? The city of Atlanta. They did an assessment in about 2017.

They knew the cameras were not working. Therefore, we have no video of what happened. No still shots. Now, that's bad enough. What we do have, however, and I've looked at them very, very carefully, are still shots of the red light right there near where Katie's body was found at the entrance of Piedmont Park. And right now, several, I think, witnesses have been identified. Michael Seiden joining me from WSB-TV. I made a little flow chart, the witnesses, I believe, potential witnesses, and I've ruled

out almost all of them. One, a group of women around 1155 p.m. It's not a group of women. That doesn't fit into any statistical analysis as to who the method and assessment of homicide. It's not them. 1209, we actually see Katie Janis walking her dog Bowie across that intersection at 10th Street. 1225, a man with a cane looking at his phone, hobbling away. It's not him. 1243, I've got this one starred. You see a person with a hoodie walking away. Potential. 1246, you see a jogger going in and out in a blue

jogging suit. And I believe he has come forward and spoken to police. Seemingly, all of these people seem to be unaware they're walking by a murder scene. To you, Michael Seiden, the reality is all the cameras in the park are outdated. They don't work. And this is just one entrance to an open park. I never went through the entrance when I would run there. I'd just be walking along the street, get on the sidewalk and walk in. There's not a fence around it. So this red light video is not really helping me. What's so frustrating for the family and friends of this victim, right? You mentioned nine cameras inside Piedmont Park. They have not been working since 2008. They're not integrated on the city system.

Now, it may come as a surprise to some people, but most of the parks in Atlanta don't have cameras. And this is something now that the city is pushing for, but obviously it's too late. You can imagine. You know what, Michael Seiden, I know you're just the messenger. And we don't use this word at home, but just shut up. Okay. No offense, but now they want to add cameras.

Are you serious? Now that Katie's been butchered up, like she's at the butcher shop. Now they want to add cameras? Are you serious? Now that Katie's been butchered up, like she said, the butcher shop, now they want to add cameras? Michael Seiden, isn't it true that an assessment was done in 2017 of the cameras? The city knew they weren't working. Isn't that true? It's true. They did the assessment in 2017. And even to this moment right now, Nancy, the city still has not come on the record and said that the cameras didn't record.

But everybody knows that they didn't. They claim that they're reaching out to the vendors to see if they were rolling. But again, there has been no video evidence, no still photos, nothing that shows that any of the cameras were working. It's an obsolete technology. The cameras were not working on the night of the shootout. Michael, not that it's going to help me solve this case, but who can we fire over this? In a public park where there are families, children, single ladies out there jogging and walking, I've been one of them, and they don't have us protected, why am I paying taxes to these people? Why?

If they can't even make the cameras work for Pete's sake. Now, back to the little bit of video that we have from that red light. You've got about a handful of witnesses. There's only one that even remotely seems like a possibility. I'm going to go to you on that. Joining me, Cheryl McCollum, director, founder of the Cold Case Research Institute. Jump in, Cheryl. Nancy, there's so much here that law enforcement has got to look at. The timeline obviously is imperative. You and I, that's where we would have started.

That's where you narrow down, you know, who could have attacked this woman and killed her in that amount of time. You've got to close that window and get as close as you can. The witnesses that are coming forward, that's fabulous. So they're going to gain information from them. Cheryl, no, they're not. No, they're not. I mean, I'm just telling you like it is. These people, you can look at the picture, Cheryl, except for that guy.

I think it's the guy in a hoodie because I can't see his demeanor. They are just walking out. They have no idea they're walking by a crime scene. They're not going to be of any help. Not these anyway. They didn't even know they walked by a dead woman. Well, let me give you an example. We know right now that no one has come forward reporting screams. That does help us. If you were right in close proximity and you heard nothing and you saw nothing, that could be helpful for us to determine when she was actually murdered. So again, the dog is going to give us information. They're going to swab that dog's mouth and tongue. They're going to look for scrapings on its claws. That's smart, Cheryl, by the way. Very smart about swabbing the dog's mouth

in case maybe he bit the perp. Go ahead. Yes, because what you want to know is, was that dog able to attack this perpetrator? Because again, I believe the dog was killed first, because the dog is about 50 feet from the victim. So I think possibly the person grabbed the leash, killed the dog. Katie might have started to run and they attacked her. I think this was quicker than people think, but there might be fabulous evidence on both victims. Hey, Michael Seiden, WSB TV, joining us out of Atlanta. Was there any indication that there was a rape or attempted rape on Katie? Yeah, that's probably a better question for investigators.

I will tell you this, and we have not gotten this confirmed by investigators, but the father of Emma Clark, so the victim's essential father-in-law, said that he was told by investigators that the dog has DNA in its mouth. But again, it appears that the dog was protecting its owner during this attack. Do you know anything about whether there was an attempted rape, Michael Seiden? No, I had no information on that. And the reason I'm asking is because the next thing you want to do is get a list of rapists in the area, sex offenders in the area, anybody that's been arrested for rape or sex assault and then has been out on bond. That's the first thing you want to do if there has been an attempted rape, but we don't know that. But what you're saying, Michael Seidenfix, in perfectly

with Cheryl McCollum's scenario that the dog was killed first, found about 50 feet away from the guys we were talking about a case that has rocked a community in atlanta the heart of the city of atlanta piedmont park katie janice found brutally stabbed as was her dog, Bowie, which is a whole nother mental factor in her murder. Guys, I want you to take a listen now to our friends at 11 Alive, Hour Cut 4. Atlanta police are asking you to take a close look at this picture of Catherine Johns. She was last seen walking her dog late last night near Piedmont Park in Midtown. We're just asking anyone if they saw a hurting thing to call 911, call Crime Stoppers. Shortly after 1 o'clock this morning, she was found brutally stabbed to death inside Piedmont Park.

Her dog was also killed. Obviously, I'm extremely saddened, shaken up. I mean, being in the same age range, living in the same area, also having a dog. Several joggers today telling me they're on edge and want answers. I really hope that they find the person and, you know, figure out a security around the area. All of us would like to know, was this a random act? Was there, you know, was someone targeted? I mean, it would just help for us to have peace of mind and have an idea of the threat level and the safety. You were just hearing, not our friends at 11 Alive, but I think Tyler played our friends at CBS 46. You know, we're talking about the people in the neighborhood in fear because they're afraid to walk out their door. Piedmont Park is huge and many, many

apartments, businesses, restaurants, condos, a high school you heard Daryl Cohen discussing earlier is right there on the edge of the park. Think about Central Park in New York or a big park in your area. That is what Piedmont Park is like for Atlantans. Right now, still no leads in the murder of Katie Janis. And not only that, we're getting distressing news that the cameras in the park don't work. Now to further muddy the waters, we are learning that another young woman was murdered the same night, the same time frame in a public park. I'm talking about Tori Lang, 18 years old, a 2021 honor graduate headed to college. Now, let me understand this. Out to you, Michael Seiden, joining us from WSB-TV. That was about 20 miles away at Yellow River Park in

Gwinnett County. I don't see the connection. She was stabbed dead. Clearly, and this is the police working theory, someone that knew her because they took the time to stage the scene. Her car, which was a beat-up 2012 Nissan Versa, was found about five miles away from the body, burned out. Somebody took her car away and burned it. Plus, the MO, Motorized Perendite Method of Operation, she was shot dead. I don't see that these are, other than the same night, in a park, I don't see that they're connected, Michael.

Yeah, and that's the big thing is that initially that's where people got the whole serial killer narrative from. I don't see it either, Nancy. I mean, again, you're talking Piedmont Park, killer narrative from. I don't see it either, Nancy. I mean, again, you're talking Piedmont Park, which is right in the heart of Midtown Atlanta. And then you're talking about Gwinnett County, a completely different suburb of Metro Atlanta. This also a heinous, heinous crime. But this is an 18-year-old woman, an honors graduate, found shot to death, her car burned out. Obviously, this is a murder mystery as well,

but drawing the connection of the two, I don't see it either. The working theory there is that Tori was shot by someone she knows because that someone, unlike a random killer, took the time to stage the scene, hiding the car in a very remote, wooded area and burning it. Joining me now is death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and star of Piketon Massacre. To you, Joe Scott Morgan, weigh in. I've got to tell you, Nancy, you know, looking at this case,

one of the words that's being used is not only stabbing. Police are also using the term mutilated. And that goes to a completely different level when you talk about a homicide in a case like this. Stabbing is one thing. It can be rather quick. You can stab somebody multiple times. But from what I understand,

the events that surround her death and the condition in which her body was found would give me pause to think that this individual spent some time with Katie's body to the degree that it was, in fact, mutilated. And you really need to let that word resonate, I think, strongly here. The person that did this, in my opinion at least, was familiar with this area. This was right at the point of access to the entrance to the park, as you had mentioned just a moment ago. I think what Cheryl had mentioned also is key relative to the forensic evidence that will be found on this dog. Another thing that the police will be looking for that is going to stand out like a sore thumb is the fact that whoever engaged in this probably has injuries. If that dog, and this is a pit bull, they left marks on this individual. So when they're

out, when the police are out canvassing, talking to folks, it could be somebody that got tore into by this dog. You see these images of Katie laying on the bed with the dog. You can see that they had a very loving relationship. This dog's probably very protective of her. But, you know, the dog didn't stand a chance, as Katie didn't. Back to your point about if there was evidence of a rape. Well, I don't necessarily know that there was evidence of rape. I can tell you at the medical examiner's office in a case like this, they're going to be doing a rape kit.

That means I won't go into graphic detail here, but they will swab specific areas of the body and look for. Joe Scott, Joe Scott, I'm not worried if you say something like pelvic exam or vagina or anus. We're talking about a murder. All those niceties don't matter now. So the fact that they're going to do basically every woman, Jackie, I'm sure you've had a pelvic exam. I assume it's not fun, but we've all done it. We've all had children, just got, so all dignity is gone. It's like a pelvic exam on a dead body. That's what a rape kit is. Except also, the medical examiner will take a very fine comb, unlike one you've ever used on your hair, and comb through pubic hair.

Look at the entire body, I guess under a microscope, that's the only way I can say it, for any hair, for epithelial skin cells. You can't see it, but it will be tested. I pray to God. They will, exactly how do they do it? Joe Scott Morgan, you've got to do a pelvic, but you've got to look for semen. Yeah, you're going to be looking for sperm and you want to see, for instance, with semen, you want to know if there's any motility to the semen and what that means. Will you please stop talking like that? Okay. Motility. I got to dummy down everything you say. With the ejaculate, you want to see if the sperm are alive or dead, that narrows down your field. And then also... No, stop, stop. It narrows down your field. What are you trying to say? Well, what I'm trying to say, Nancy, is that if the individual that ejaculated had living sperm

or dead sperm, if they have dead sperm, that means that they are no longer fertile. They cannot reproduce. And there's a certain segment of the population that you automatically narrow down with that. Now, if you have sperm, if you have semen, you can also do DNA. One other thing they're going to do here, you'd mentioned... Wait a minute. You can get DNA from ejaculate. There doesn't have to be sperm. No, you can. And you can, in fact, get DNA from ejaculate. It doesn't necessarily have to be sperm. It would be ideal to have the sperm. Another thing that you pose, just so folks understand, if you've got school-age children,

there's ever been kids that have lice, for instance. You have to use one of the fine combs for the lice. That's what we use in the mower, essentially, to look for the hair. Also, they're going to do nail scrapings. They will trim her nails, look underneath the nails for Also, they're going to do nail scrapings. They will trim her nails, look underneath the nails for dead skin cells, this sort of thing. And any kind of attempt, she may have bitten this guy, for all we know, as well, to try to get him off of her. One other sexual component to this, Nancy, it doesn't necessarily have to be a rape, but from what I'm

hearing, from what I'm hearing, if her clothing is disrupted, some of these individuals get pleasure out of seeing pain. And if you inflict pain on areas that are, say, like the vagina, her backside, or maybe even her breast, if they're disfigured in any way, that could be an indication of sex or mouth. That can be an indication of sexual of a sexual predator, a sadistic sexual predator. You know what? I was giving you a little bit of H-E-double-L, but you are just a fountain of incredible information. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about how to solve a murder, a brutal murder, unlike anything. The city of Atlanta, we've got a very high crime rate in the city of Atlanta. And when you say this is unlike anything I've ever seen before,

that's comparing to a lot of cases, which makes this even more disturbing. As Joe Scott Morgan said, this woman, Katie Janis, was, quote, mutilated. Okay, Cheryl, sorry, go ahead, dear. Nancy, the park was dark where she was found. So if she had been stabbed in the back of the chest and was just laying on the ground, the witness on the 911 call when her wife, girlfriend was making the call would not have had the reaction that they had. You can hear that person flip out. Now that tells you something is horribly wrong because in the dark, you wouldn't even see that much blood from a stabbing. From veteran people saying that it was grotesque tells you the manner in which this victim was left. Now, keep in mind, this killer did all of these gruesome things to this victim, but left her in the wide open, left the dog in the wide open. That should tell you that it was a blitz attack. It was very quick. So again, to me, I agree with Joe Scott Morgan, but I would call this person a lust

killer. And if this person had any necrophilia in that scene, it doesn't necessarily have to be on her body either. Another thing, Cheryl McCollum, let me go through this theory with you. I do not believe it was anybody that knew her or was close to her because they would have done it in secret. They knew where she was. They knew where she lived. They knew where she worked. They could have done it anywhere, not out in the open and leaving the body out in the open, which tells me just based statistically on what I know is a random killing. I mean, when you want to kill somebody you know, you kill them in their home in secret. What? Jump in and go. I've got to say, if that's the case, if that's the case, then what you've got is a raving maniac out there.

People absolutely need to be terrified at this point. Because if there's an individual that is out there that's a total stranger, that's capable of inflicting this level of trauma to this young woman, they'll do it to anybody, anybody. And to Mac's point, I think there's a potential because of what the police are saying. Her body very well may have been posed. She was left out in the open so everybody could see this. She talked about the reaction that the individuals have. I would be scared out of my wits if I was living in that area. Let me get back to you, Michael Seiden. I want to follow up on what Joe Scott, Morgan, and Cheryl McCollum are saying. You know, between the two of them, they have so much

forensic experience. So why isn't Michael Seiden, the mayor, the mayor is saying oh it's not a serial killing we're going to solve it why are they downplaying this i think common you know i think they don't want to inflict you know all this uh terror and fear and chaos but i mean that's what we're hearing from our viewers in atlanta that's what we're hearing from people in the community they are nervous and in fact this over the weekend they just had a big festival there. And we interviewed people telling us, hey, I thought about I thought twice about coming out to the park. Now, I will say, following the press conference with the city and the mayor, district attorney's office, FBI, US attorney's office, they did hold a press conference and said, if you're going to be there at night, you better be traveling with a group and don't

be there by yourself. Yeah, I heard that from Fonny, the new district attorney, who's doing a really great job on this. But I haven't heard it from the elected officials. And we've been asking that question. You know, we've been posing that question. And, you know, at this point, they're keeping everything close to the vest, the homicide detectives. But as you guys bring up these potential theories that could prove true, I think it's a valid question.

Are people safe to go to the park? Guys, hold on just one moment. I want to bring in a renowned psychiatrist joining us today, Dr. Angela Arnold. But first, and Tyler, I need you to play Our Cut 7, Tyler. It is Zach Summers joining us from CBS. Our Cut number 7, Tyler. It is Zach Summers joining us from CBS. Hour Cut number 7, Tyler. Atlanta police were called to the park in Midtown around 1 a.m. and found the body of Catherine Janis.

Police say the 40-year-old had been stabbed multiple times. Her dog was also killed. One of the last known sightings of the two was near 10th and Piedmont. It's not surprising that she would have been out. Clayton Skinner was a regular customer of Janice's. She was a bartender at Campanola. Skinner says most people who knew her called her Katie. She was a genuinely shy, sweet, kind person.

Skinner, who also lives in Midtown, says he often saw Janice walking her dog in the neighborhood. She routinely walked her dog later at night because she typically worked night shift. I want to go to you on this, Dr. Angela Arnold, and everybody else jump in after because this is a whole other facet. The victim in this case was a singer-songwriter, very tender-hearted, very sensitive person. She also worked part-time as a bartender. And a lot of aspersions have also been cast on her because she worked as a bartender. And I would like to point out that I'm very proud of my niece who graduated with honors from Stanford, but for a while, she worked part-time as a bartender. You know, I don't like the way she's being crucified, Dr. Angela Arnold,

but it does, in one way, it is critical. It is important because who knows who could have seen her, gotten a crush on her, followed her from that bar where she worked. And it also explains why she was out so late at night. She's been assailed for that too, because she worked late at night and got off and went out to walk her dog. She's just really taken a lot of hits, Dr. Angie. I agree with you, Nancy. And people don't understand what this area is like. It's got such a neighborhood feel to it. And the tavern where she worked, it's all full of regulars, Nancy. So everybody knows each other there. Wait, what tavern was it? Henry's Tavern on 10th Street.

Right, yeah. Basically down the street, maybe a block away from where this happened. Okay? So, Nancy, another thing that I wanted to point out also, there's been a lot of talk about this is the most unusual crime that anybody's ever seen. The police have never seen anything like this. Well, what does that mean, Nancy? That means that we're all not walking around living in fear that somebody's going to mutilate us if we take our dog out. Because I believe as a psychiatrist, I believe that we cannot constantly live in fear. We're being made to fear everything right now. So at some point you have to let go.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be safe, but she didn't think that she was being unsafe. She took her pit bull out to let him relieve himself. And I'm going to tell you something Nancy I live two blocks from where this happened okay Nancy we don't feel unsafe in our neighborhood we love where we live we love Midtown and that is the exact same way that the people that live over about Mont Park feel we live here for a reason so, I don't know, this business of blaming her and blaming her fiance and all of this, I think this is coming from a place of ignorance on a lot of people's part because they don't understand the neighborhood in which we

live. Well, I think it's something else, Dr. Angie. I believe people like to, I believe there's another component. I think people like to attack the victim and what she, he may have done because it makes them feel safe. Oh, she was out with her dog late at night. I would never do that translation. I'm safe. I don't have to worry about this. That's what I think a lot of people do.

You know, I want to analyze what we know. Cheryl McCollum joining me. Also, special guest joining us from WSB TV. Guys, I'm very concerned about the way she's being portrayed, Michael Seiden. But what other forensic evidence? Because, you know, her reputation is taking a hit for no reason. But that's not going to be pertinent at trial. What's going to be pertinent at trial? When this person, this is a man, I can guarantee you that, is caught?

It's going to be about the cold, hard evidence. Is there anything you haven't told us, Michael? I think we've hit on just about everything. Again, I think, I don't want to keep bringing up the bartender thing, but I do think it is key in this because people who knew her in the neighborhood, whether it be friends, family, or complete strangers, always talked about how she was the life of the party. When you'd walk into the restaurant she worked at, everybody knew her. And I think that's extremely important because while she may not have known everybody, all these people went to the bar. They had conversations with her.

She was always the type having a good time. And that could play key in who the suspect is. Like you mentioned, I think, Nancy, that it could have been some sicko who was sitting in the corner that had this fantasy, right? But which also makes it not random. And I, yes, you're right, Michael. Of course, you're right. WSB TV joining us. Cheryl McCollum, jump in. Nancy, we know from the camera footage, police already know she wasn't followed. You can see her in the crosswalk. She's by herself. They would have picked somebody up already. Second thing, her cell phone is going to be imperative. When did somebody start calling her? When were they texting her? And when, according to the GPS

on that phone, did that dot stop moving? They're going to know that in real time. They're also going to concentrate on post-mortem injuries. What was done to her after she was dead? And let me just say this, and Dr. Angie can jump in, but you and I, Nancy, have worked a thousand cases where the family at the scene cannot accept what's happened. They beg, please keep doing CPR, please gear to gravy, please save her. Her wife accepted that she was dead on the 911 call. That tells you the manner in which that victim was left. As always, brilliant. Guys, if you know or even think you know anything about the death of this beautiful young woman, please dial Atlanta Homicide, 404-546-4235. Repeat, 404-546-4235.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.