Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tensions mount in Tampa as killer lurks; Texas co-ed murder mystery; What's next for Charles Manson?

Episode Date: November 28, 2017

The reward for help in finding a serial killer lurking the streets of a Tampa, Florida, neighborhood is growing as police mounted on horses patrol the area in an effort to prevent a 5th killing. WFLA-TV reporter Meredyth Censullo updates Nancy Grace on the case. She is joined by crime scene investigator Sheryl McCollum,, Chicago psychologist Dr. Tiffany Sanders and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Who killed a Texas college student, who police say was killed as she sat in her car at an empty north Texas parking on early Sunday? Grace and her panel discuss the case of 21-year-old Amanda Clairmont. Charles Manson's questionable soul has left his body, but there's controversy over what happens next for the cult leader's worldly remains. Nancy and friends discuss the possibilities. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. 10 days we will hunt this son of a down until we find them the three victims gunned down less than half a mile apart i can't believe my son is gone tampa's mayor doing what he can to reassure the public saying that they've added a thousand street lights to the seminole heights neighborhood and that they won't stop until that killer is caught nobody comes into our house and does this not now not ever authorities pouring over the raining surveillance video for clues looking at this person of interest walking alone wearing a hood on the night of the first killing. I need that Seminole Heights community to stand up, and I need them to point out who that man is. You guys go hunt him down, and bring his head to me.

After the Tampa serial killer claims another victim, now police actually going through the streets on mounted patrol trying to protect the innocent and stop the serial killer who has been stalking the city, paralyzing the city. Why? Why can't this guy be caught? He does a murder for so far,

shoots the person dead in public and walks away. He doesn't even run. Why can't he be caught? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with me, investigative reporter Meredith Cianciullo, on the scene in Tampa, WFLA, Alexis Tereszczuk, Radar Online investigative reporter,

Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute and Dr. Tiffany Sanders, renowned psychologist joining us out of Chicago first to Meredith Censulo with WFLA in Tampa. Meredith, police are now walking the streets 24-7 on Mounted Horse. Explain. That's right. This is the latest development in terms of police saturation of the area. Mounted patrols added to the streets over the weekend. They will be visible for the next several weeks. We now have cruisers from Florida Highway Patrol supplementing, along with all of the other agencies, both national and local,

that have been canvassing the area searching for this serial killer. Just over the weekend, the fourth victim, Ronald Felton, 60 years old, was laid to rest. He was murdered on November 14th, the fourth victim. These murders stretching back to October 9th. And right now, there is a $100,000 reward for information that can lead to the capture of this killer. Tampa police telling me more than 1,100 tips have come in so far. But right now, they're just working off of that one witness description that they have, as well as surveillance camera video from the night of the first and fourth murders, that fourth murder of Ronald Felton, showing what appears to be a tall, slender, African-American or light-skinned African-American person seen at the scene, seen running from the scene. We do know that all four victims were killed with gunshots,

most likely from behind. This person is sneaking up on their victims. It is believed that the killer is from the Seminole Heights area because of the ease in which this person has been able to escape the crime scenes and hide out. And again, this area is completely saturated. The night of the fourth murder, there were law enforcement officers just seconds away. And that's what is leading investigators to believe that this person is right under our noses, but no one is coming forward with information. So this reward keeps going up, hoping that someone will crack and someone will provide tips. But right now, I think this community just feels like it's a waiting game for the next murder. There was about

a one month gap in between the third and fourth murders, and people sort of seemed to relax a little bit. But now, it's when is this person going to strike? When is this going to happen again? And it's very likely because we still don't have anyone being questioned and held as a suspect in these murders. You know, this last victim, as Meredith Cianciullo was telling us, has been laid to rest in the last hours. He is remembered as a, quote, Superman of service. He was gunned down by the Tampa serial killer targeting that same Seminole Heights neighborhood.

And he was just remembered in the last hours by family and friends gathered around his casket draped with white flowers and violet ribbons attached, a blanket of flowers. And he was held as caring, caring for other people. The supervisor at a food bank was there. And he said, I was a supervisor, but he was the one in charge. Everybody came to him. Everybody looked up to him. Felton has a twin brother, Reggie, who says, if you have a heart, please turn yourself in. That's all we want. I can tell you right now, this guy is not going to turn himself in. I know that for a fact. You know, what's interesting to Alexis

Tereschuk joining me along with Meredith Censulo and Dr. Tiffany Sanders and Cheryl McCollum. Alexis, many people have argued or hypothesized that because there was a delay before the last killing that there is no pattern. But I disagree with that. I think that many serial killers have or hypothesized that because there was a delay before the last killing, that there is no pattern. But I disagree with that. I think that many serial killers have weeks or even longer delays between murders. You're absolutely right. They do.

And the thing is that this guy, he only waited a month. And that shows, and the police have actually said that the second murder and this latest one, the fourth one, are connected. So the three weeks between it, the month, that's not a big gap. This guy is still out for blood. And I think that it's very scary that it's happening right in the neighborhood at the bus stop. It's a deliberate target that he's picking. You know, that gives me a question. Meredith Cianciolo joining us on the scene, WFLA in Tampa. Meredith, this last victim that was gunned down, was he getting off a bus or did he drive and park? We know he did not drive. He was known to

use a bike in that area when he would go to and from the food bank. His bike was actually located at the food bank there, chained up. But he may have been going to meet someone at the bus stop. From a witness account, he was walking across the road back towards the food bank when he was shot and killed. We also know that he had been on the phone with a brother of his who was coming to meet him at the food bank. And that brother was riding a bus to get there. So there is certainly a bus stop connection. There are multiple bus stops along this stretch of roadway. As far as we know, though, he was walking in the middle of the road, either to or from the other side of the road, perhaps a bus stop, but it sounds like he was going to

meet someone rather than take that actual bus himself because his bike was found at the scene. You know, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, a psychologist joining us out of Chicago, it's so hard to take in that one moment your life is fine and the next moment, it's changed forever. And I've talked about this many times with Alexis and Cheryl, Tiffany. In fact, I'm thinking of it right now. The day that I walked into a statistics exam. And I came out of the exam in undergrad and the sky was blue and the sun was shining and I was happy and it was beautiful. I remember that. And I was walking across campus

and paused at the student union to call the library where I worked to tell them my exam had run 30 minutes, 20 minutes long, and I was in route. And they told me to call my fiance's sister. And I knew right then that Keith was dead. I just knew. And he was. He had been murdered. And that changed the course of events for the rest of my life.

And I don't like to think back on it. And just recently, and I've talked a lot to Alexis and Cheryl about this um everything was fine it what we're everybody's getting ready for Thanksgiving and my dad had some congestion in his lungs and they want him to go in the hospital and I'm the one that encouraged him to go in the hospital and I don't know why they did this they flooded his body with fluids to make his kidney work better and he essentially drowned in the congestion in his lungs and one day everything was fine and the next day my dad was gone and I'm thinking about these victims' families. We now have four dead people. It's so much worse, Dr. Tiffany, when it's violent crime. I can't really explain it. It's not only do you have

to deal with the loss of the one you love the most, your world, but then you have to deal with the fact that someone intentionally did this thing for no reason. Random. It just it's almost too much to take in, Dr. Tiffany Sanders. Yeah, Nancy, it's so heartbreaking to hear your story about your your fiance and your dad. And just to think about anyone who is a victim of violent crime and one where you lose your loved one, the grief is overwhelming, the anger, the frustration, you know, wishing that you could go back in time and redo that chain of events that may have led up to that killing. Maybe tell your brother, hey, don't go that way or go this way or don't take that bus route. And these shoulda, woulda, coulda play in your head all day long. And it causes more anxiety.

It can lead to depression. And you can't stop because someone insisted on taking another person's life, and they had no right to do that. Their lack of empathy, their lack of remorse, because even after the first or second killing, they know the pain that the loved ones are going through, yet they still decide to commit this level of crime, this violent act. And so you have to wonder what type of person will do that in broad daylight or come up from behind an innocent person who cannot defend themselves. So it's egregious. It's heartbreaking. It's horrific to know. And I hope that the police do get this person because he's causing domestic terrorism in the minds of people.

He is paralyzing a community. And the fact also, Dr. Tiffany, and I'll throw this to you, Meredith, Meredith Censulo joining us from WFLA Tampa TV. Meredith, the thing is that now I'm afraid people are going to, just as they did before, get lulled into a sense of complacency because this whole thing started October 9, when a young guy, 22-year-old Benjamin Mitchell, shot dead. Two days later, it's a no, it was a serial killer yet.

32-year-old Monica Hoffa shot dead. She was the one that was the apple of her parents' eye. Her mom is deaf, and she would interpret for her mother. October 19, I see just a little bit of time passes there. Not much. Anthony Neboa, 20 years old, killed after he took the wrong bus home from his new job. He just happened to be in the Seminole Heights area.

Now, a month passes, and Ronald Felton is gunned down. In those few weeks, people were lulled into a sense of complacency. I don't want that to happen again, Meredith. Right. You know, what's interesting and sad at the same time is in that three and a half weeks, people did start to go on as if, okay, this is done. They actually painted a giant mural in honor of the first three victims thinking, this is it, you know, let's remember these people. And that mural was not finished more than a day or two when this fourth murder happened. And that's, that's, that's really sad. I don't know what the killer seeing this and, and thought, Hey, wait a minute, I'm, I'm still here, you know, or was there some reason why he couldn't

get back out on the streets and commit another crime in that three and a half weeks? We just don't know. Well, I know this. I guarantee you he is sitting back watching all of the coverage, probably listening to this on Sirius XM 132. Take a listen to what the police chief has to say. If you recall, this was the video. Notice the hoodie or rain jacket. Notice the gate and how they're walking. The phone flip and how they're nonchalantly just walking. Appears to be looking at his phone. It appears to be a light-colored jacket.

I think that's very misleading. You see it here, it now looks a little bit of a darker color jacket. Same individual. We originally called him someone we wanted to talk to. It went to a person of interest. Today we're going to call the same individual a suspect and you're going to see why in just a moment. Yesterday morning, November 14th, moments before the homicide. Same gate, same walk, maybe not the same jacket definitely a hoodie I repeat we are now calling this person a suspect and we need to know who this person is we need someone who is

thoughtful cares and has the heart and the fortitude and the bravery to step forward and tell us who this person is and give us the identity. I don't need speculation. We don't need profiles. We need names. It's pretty simple. All you have to do is call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-873-TIPS. We know this. We know the reward for information on these four deadly shootings

has now skyrocketed to $110,000. Please go to CrimeOnline.com where we have posted all the information, the tip lines, as well as the two videos. I still don't understand why police are not connecting all four when it's clearly the same person, but we've got two connected as of right now. Go to crimeonline.com and look at the video, see the tip line, and help us stop the Tampa serial killer from striking again. Let me pause to thank our sponsor, our partner, making our program possible today in our effort to stop the Tampa serial killer. And it is Link AKC. Christmas is right around the corner with all the other holidays. Don't leave your dog out of the fun. Get the Link AKC smart collar. Then you

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Don't delay. Call today. That's pound 250, keyword grace. Call pound 250 and say grace. And now we head across the country where police are stymied, Corinth police stymied. They're stuck. They've hit a wall after a young co-ed is found murdered in her car. Now, Amanda Claremont, absolutely gorgeous.

She looks like a model. Her dream was to become a makeup artist. and she had just created a new Instagram account that showed off all of her work before she was found murdered in a vacant parking lot in Corinth. Now, to Alexis Tereszczuk, joining me, RadarOnline.com, and John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter, what do we know to you, Alexis Tereszczuk? What do we know about this area, Corinth? It's about 30 miles north of Dallas.

It's a small town, 17,000 people, really just tiny little town north of Dallas. And she was well-known. She had lots of family. Her brother said that, you know, it was a Saturday afternoon. She'd been out with her friends. And then they didn't hear from her at all until the police found her body at 6 o'clock in the morning on Sunday. Now, you're telling me the time of death was the afternoon, Alexis? You said Saturday afternoon?

The last time that they heard from her, her brother said she'd been out with her friends on a Saturday afternoon. That's when he talked to her. It was just a warm, sunny day in Texas on a Saturday. Well, this town, to John Limley, Crime Stories contributing reporter, is kind of like a sleeper, a bedroom community. It's, as Alexis Tereschuk was just telling us, just a few miles north of Dallas. It's about 17, 21,000 people.

A very low crime rate. She had just posted on Twitter, follow my new makeup Instagram account and support my work, please. Now they find her. You go ahead. Tell me what you know, John. Well, as you were saying, Amanda Claremont, 21 year old student, she fit in perfectly in this little town. A college student who people say was nice to everyone. She was found dead in a parking lot in this tiny Texas town. And this is the first murder there in nearly two decades. Oh my stars, I didn't know that, John Limley.

Absolutely. It had been quite some time. Corinth police say that she was found shot inside her car. And this was a vacant parking lot off of an interstate. They found her Sunday morning, as has been mentioned. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Back to the town, this town is in Denton County, and is really close to the University of North Texas, where Claremont was a senior, and she was majoring in religious studies. She's just a beautiful young girl, and apparently beautiful on the inside and the outside. Now, what is interesting to me, John Limley, her car headlights were still on, and the passenger side door was still open.

Passenger side door open. The fact that her lights were on tell me that she either drove her car there or her car was driven there, carjacked, whatever, when it was still dark. Now, the brother, her brother, last heard from her in the afternoon. We think the late afternoon. Now, you have to take into account, as Jackie's pointing out right here, it hadn't been long because the battery had not run down yet, and the lights were still on. And I think about this all the time. Alexis Teresha, you've got your little boy.

The twins, I don't know why they do it. I'm driving them around in a minivan. Even in daylight, they'll be playing in the back of the minivan and they'll turn on the side lights. And, you know, I'll bring them in and I happen to go out to get the dog or to do this or that. It'll be, you know, 11 o'clock at night. I see the lights on in the back of the van. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in heaven, I've got to get jumped off. But no, the lights are still on. So I guess the car is okay. The lights were still on, Alexis. And the passenger side door was open. Not the driver side, the passenger side. And another question I have, and I know you don't know the answer to this one because it hasn't been released yet. It says a vacant parking lot. Now, does that mean

we're at a Walmart, but nobody's there? Or is it just one of those like dirt lots where people park? Why was it vacant? And was it near a mall or a store or just kind of out in the middle of nowhere? That's going to reflect. That's going to give me clues, Alexis, as to who the killer is. And that's the thing that's so scary. When they say a vacant parking lot, it might mean that there are no cameras around to capture but it is it's the middle of you know the night the sun is just coming up and she's found shot multiple times they in fact when when she was first found police wouldn't even release how many times that she had been shot and so she was just there in the driver's seat passenger passenger door wide open, abandoned with car lights on.

Just that's just a scary thought that this this girl who was just out with her friends hours earlier could be found abandoned in a parking lot. Nobody cared enough to do anything to help her. You know, John Limley, Crime Stories contributing reporter. I've dug a little bit on her and I learned that, as you told me, she was a senior at University of North Texas. But I also learned that she was raised in Sandwich, Illinois, and moved to Texas about 10 years ago after her mother passed away with cancer. So she is, what, 24 now. Her mom passed away when she was just 10 years old. She attended high school in Frisco, and she was extremely popular and was known for her hair and makeup, always looking beautiful. That was her thing.

Right now, Lucy's thing is guinea pigs and gymnastics. Okay, now, I can't even, I don't even know where to go with that, except I can tell you I'm the one cleaning their pen out. All right. So we'll just go with that. Alexis, see what you've got to look forward to. So I'm trying to get an idea about this girl, John Limley with me, Alexis Tereschuk with me, Dr. Tiffany Sanders with me. Hey, hold on, John, Dr. Tiffany. I always think about, okay, don't laugh. I think about Madonna because, you know, Madonna's mother passed away when she, I think, was about 10 years old. And from that point on, she didn't get along with her dad.

There were all sorts of issues, and it gave her a lot of pain to lose your parent, your mother, at 10. What does that do to someone, Dr. Tiffany? Well, you know, your parents essentially are your first teachers. They're your first caregivers. They're the ones who help guide you through life. Unfortunately, to lose your mother at such a young age, it can throw you off track.

It can devastate you. It can cause you to have a lot of anger and resentment. And for this young lady, it doesn't seem like that was the case. She was loved by everyone. The photos of her, she's beautiful. She was studying religious studies. So it makes it more heartbreaking to know that this is a young lady who was on a good path in life, who loved everyone and was just snuffed out from under us for no apparent reason. It's just tragic, Nancy. And another thing, John Lindley, a young girl who had already gone through so much, losing a parent, relocating, starting over, those are hard things for adults to go through. It certainly is. And the friends of Amanda say

that she was on the perfect career path for this young woman, that not only was she beautiful, but she could make other people beautiful with hair and makeup. One former classmate said that her look was very unique, that you did not mistake Amanda for anyone else. Amanda was a senior at the University of North Texas, and the president there released a statement last week saying that their hearts are heavy and news of the tragic loss of her life has really impacted the campus in a way unimaginable to many people. Claremont's brother, David, actually turned to Twitter on the day of his sister's murder after her body was discovered and let everyone know that this was an important life that had been stolen from not only the family, but the friends as well. And the way to have her live on is to never stop loving those family and friends around you.

And he ended saying, I love you, Amanda. I have an idea. I have an idea, Alexis Dreschuk. Number one, I'm getting a little bit more information that Jackie managed to get through one of her sources. The car was parked up against a fence with the lights on. The passenger door opened up against a fence. So that's giving me a clue about the parking lot it was a legitimate parking lot not some just dirt area uh it was a legitimate parking lot but they're

not i don't get a good location i do know this it was off interstate 35 east in denton county i know that um officers had stopped to check the car she was in after seeing it parked in a vacant lot. It was along the 5700 block of a highway service road. That's an access road. You know what that says to me? That says to me, you know those little roads that go along the side of an interstate and there might be businesses or just open land there? Somebody had to know about that access road. You kind of have to know how to get back in there.

It's just north of Corinth Parkway, and we also know that there is a tip line. I think that the way to find this person is to figure out where she was and go back through the last 24 hours of her life. If she was out with friends the afternoon before, who were they? Where were they? Are there surveillance videos? Let's just say she was at a TGI Fridays. I'm just pulling that out of the sky. They have surveillance video. Who was she with? Who did she leave with?

Where did they go? Did that place have a surveillance video? Unless she was carjacked at a red light, she was with somebody, Alexis. And there are clues left behind, Alexis. And that's what the police need to be looking at. They need to find out who she was with. And that's what the brother said. be looking at. They need to find out who she was with. And that's what the brother said. She was out with a group of friends.

Maybe these weren't exactly friends of hers. But the fact that they didn't hear from her for hours and hours and that she disappeared all night long and nobody saying they were trying to call her. They didn't say her cell phone wasn't working or anything like that. So maybe they weren't that worried about her

because they knew who she was with. This is what I know now. The search for the killer of this beautiful girl goes on. This young girl, Amanda Claremont, with her life before her, already overcoming so many obstacles, was shot dead. Tip line 940-498-2017. Again, we are following this and bringing you the latest at CrimeOnline.com. Repeat 940-498-2017. As we search for who took the life of this young girl, I want to thank our partners who are making our program possible today. It's LegalZoom. As business owners out there, you know how important it is. You got to keep moving forward. But so often things come up to take your time and focus away from growing your business. When it comes to issues like reviewing contracts, registering

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And I want to thank Super Beats for being with us today and being our partner. Charles Manson is dead. That much we know. But nobody has claimed his body yet. And believe it or not, a GoFundMe drive started to raise money for an elaborate funeral for Charles Manson. I got a pretty good idea who's going to claim that body. Satan. Beelzebub!

One of the devil's minions. That's the only one I can think of because all of his best friends are still behind bars. With me, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, psychologist, joining us from Chicago, Cheryl McCollum, crime scene investigator and director of the Cold Case Institute. And also with me, joining me me Radar Online's investigative reporter Alexis Tereszczuk. First of all Alexis well whose bright idea was it to start a GoFundMe? Now you know just last week I was talking about a GoFundMe for a guy whose son was shot in the church shooting the Somerville, Texas church shooting.

And then, believe it or not, Alexis, his house burned down. He had nothing but the shirt on his back. Now, somebody started a GoFundMe to raise money for Charles Manson. Alexis, tell me about the GoFundMe, please. So it's this guy who is actually remaining anonymous right now, but he claims he's been a pen pal. I bet he is. I bet he is, Alexis. He claims he's been a pen pal of Charles Manson's for about 20 years now.

And he set up the GoFundMe page and he said, you know, Charles Manson deserves a proper burial. I believe it was the exact thing. And he's going to have a headstone and people can either come and grieve or deface it is what he said so he wanted to actually raise money and he did he raised about a thousand dollars people donated money oh my goodness people are actually donating money okay this is about uh the funeral expenses of notorious cult leader charles man. Now we have information that that person is actually a friend of Charles Manson's grandson, Jason Freeman. That's what we've been told. And I have reason to believe that that is true. Already raised a thousand bucks, according to news outlets in New York to pay the legal travel and burial fees

for Manson's body. Now right now the body is being held at the Kern County Coroner's. That's what we know so far. Let me ask you something to Dr. Tiffany Sanders and you know Cheryl I really want to hear about evidence because, you know, that's all I care about outside the twins. But, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, you've got to help me. Now, guys, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, our psychologist, very well-known psychologist, as a matter of fact, out of Chicago. Why would anyone attach themselves now to Charles Manson to try to stage some sort of elaborate funeral for him. Explain that thinking, if you can dare to crawl into that nut's head. Right. Most of us that are of sane mind wouldn't even want to be connected with

a serial killer who committed these egregious crimes. But there are a group of people who really seek out fame, who seek out notoriety, who want to be connected with individuals like him. And so they are fueling their own self-interest, later leading to some opportunity for fame and recognition. And for us who are saying, we're like, you know what, get this creep out of here, bury him, not even six feet, 12 feet under or incinerate his body. But there are some individuals who would just rather stay connected and keep this man life and his beliefs and his actions still alive. It's ridiculous.

You know, it's very interesting about this guy. Cheryl McCollum, I want you to hear this and get your take on it. This guy that allegedly has been raising money for an elaborate funeral for Charles Manson said it is his family obligation to take Manson's body. He Freeman guy raising the money. I think his name is Jason Freeman says that. Are you ready that he will not sit back and let them. I don't know who them is throw charles manson away like trash he says it's going to be a lot of money but there are people that want to contribute

he also says cheryl mccollum that he has next of kin status and he says in addition to not letting them throw manson away like trash he says manson's whole life he lived with the pain of feeling the pain of feeling unclaimed and we must not let this happen in death together we can help jason bring his grandfather home and prove to the world Charles Manson was loved and will be claimed. Okay, now hold on, hold on. Now this is what I'm getting out of Vibe, you know, the website Vibe. Now there's more to it. Freeman is the son of Charles Manson Jr. Okay, it was Charles Manson's only known child with his wife Rosalie,, who, of course, divorced him. Now, it also says the notorious killer later had two other sons.

I did not know that about Charles Manson. Now, Freeman's father, who was behind this fundraising activity, his father actually changed his name to try to get away from his connection to Charles Manson, but then later committed suicide. So Charles Manson's son and namesake committed suicide, and now his grandson reportedly is behind raising money for staging some sort of a memorial or funeral for Charles Manson. Cheryl McCollum, what about that? First and foremost, anytime I hear Charles Manson and family in the same sentence, I get a little creeped out.

Second of all, my concern is going to be the folks that crave this murderabilia. What are they actually going to do? I mean, Nancy, there are people that will buy strands of hair. There are people that will buy anything connected to this man. And I'm just concerned that now that we don't have Son of Sam laws anymore, that they may be actually trying to turn a profit. Now, how could they do that? Could they do that by if they claimed his body?

And I am hypothesizing here. They haven't said this, but if they claimed his body, they could get locks of his hair. Sure. They could get everything belonging to him. And I worked for a long time with a friend of mine named Andy Kahn. Do you remember him, Cheryl McCollum? Love Andy Kahn.

Yeah. And he is out of the Houston mayor victim's rights office. Right. And he actually inspired me, Andy Kahn did, to write chapters in my first book, Objection, about murderabilia. I titled it Blood Money. Yeah. Where people actually get a killer's, okay, I almost hate to say this, but it's the truth, toe clippings, where they cut their toenails, their hair, whatever can be connected to them,

a stamp that they licked, anything, and they sell it. Think how sick this could get. For example, if they get him and he's in an open casket, they could sell tickets, take a selfie with Charlie. Okay, Cheryl, thank you for that thought. Okay, I'm going to have that in my head. Actually, I'm going to try to picture your face and not mine leaned over Manson's casket getting a selfie. Okay, but you know, the reality is Dr. Tiffany Sanders, as bizarre as that sounds, it's actually possible.

Right. You know, the idea of people taking pictures with the body, hair, toenail clippings, you know, the need for any of this memorabilia to sit on their mantle in their home. It's just it's disgusting. Oh, Dr. Tiffany, stop it. A picture of absolutely disgusting with a selfie with Charles Manson in his casket. Oh, stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Bragging rights for Nancy.

That is just bragging rights. These are what people want. Look what I have. Look what you look what I have. Oh, stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Bragging rights for Nancy. That is just bragging rights. These are what people want. Look what I have. Look what I have. Come over my house. Again, attention seeking. The idea that this can generate attention and fame for them, that's what they're seeking after. Alexis, ThereseChuckRadarOnline.com.

Alexis, murderabilia has happened so many times in the past. Now, this is the good thing. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Alexis. GoFundMe stopped. Pull the plug on the fundraising site, set up to help Manson and help his grandson travel and burial expenses or whoever was behind it after the $1,000. But now they've turned to fundraising on PayPal. Ugh, Alexis, help me.

You're 100% right. They did. GoFundMe shut it down. They actually have a pretty good reputation for cutting out the gross stuff. GoFundMe does. But they persisted. And the guy is now trying to raise money on PayPal asking for this. But he only has 10 days. He's really running up against a time limit here. He's got about, I think, two days left. So if he doesn't get this money, hopefully, well, the process is the prison will cremate Manson's body. So there will not be any chances for selfies with Charles Manson. It's so gross.

I mean, unless it's claimed. Unless it is claimed. Now, catch this. What does this mean, Alexis? And tell me if this is true or not. I understand that the grandson, Jason Freeman, never got the chance to meet Manson before he died, after decades behind bars. But he said he tried to visit Manson in prison when Manson was having some type of gastrointestinal problems

back in January. But Manson refused to meet his own grandson. What's that all about? Is that true, Alexis? You're exactly right. The grandson was never able to meet Manson. And meet his own grandson. What's that all about? Is that true, Alexis? You're exactly right. The grandson was never able to meet Manson. And he did try. This year was one of the first times Manson ever left the prison. He was rushed to the hospital in January, January 6th, and had some gastrointestinal issues. We actually thought this was the end.

Everybody thought this was the end, that Manson was not going to make it. He lasted another miserable 11 months. And so the grandson has never met him. He tried, Manson refused. And he still, still wants to get his grandfather's body and keeps talking about how he wants to do things the right way for this man who was the mastermind behind one of the worst slaughters in American history, which is such a dark, evil crime. Cheryl McCollum, the grandson, says, quote, If we can't raise money with GoFundMe, we'll

find another way. It will definitely be a group effort. It's not just one person. It's a lot of people holding hands. OK, you know what? While they're holding hands and singing Kumbaya and trying to stage an elaborate funeral for Charles Manson. Can you refresh our recollection, Cheryl McCollum, and tell me what happened the night that Sharon

Tate was slaughtered? Oh, Lord, Nancy. Those crime scene photographs, if anybody has had a chance to see them, you have this young, beautiful woman who is eight months pregnant, and these killers go into her house and literally slaughter her. And let me just go back a second, because I think this is what is really bothering me about this whole GoFundMe and proper burial and things they're claiming. Again, there's a reason they don't want him cremated.

They want that body, and I'm telling you, it's forated. They want that body. And I'm telling you, it's for profit. It's for gain. It has nothing to do with their belief system. It is, I'm telling you, monetary. And, you know, my gut feeling tells me somebody's going to come forward like a Marilyn Manson. And they're going to come up with the money and they're going to something horrific, like put that casket in him in their music video. I'm just telling you, it's going to be something sinister, just like his life. His death is going to be no different. It's going to

be appalling, and it's going to be pathetic, and it's going to be deliberate, and once again, the victims are lost here. I mean, nobody talks about Sharon Tate anymore. Everybody now is talking about him. And, you know, to me, as much as we can shut all of it down, we should. You know, I'm thinking about what you're saying, Cheryl. And I'm thinking about if you want your grandparents or if you don't want Charles Manson's remains, why don't you want them cremated? Why don't you want them in an urn? Why can't you claim them after a cremation unless what you just said is true? I mean, I don't know this, but I'm wondering what he wants to do with the body.

Cheryl? Well, there's no question. I mean, to me, Nancy, it's going to become one of those sections. If they bury this man and they put a huge tombstone somewhere, it's going to be where those types of followers, people that the Helter Skelter groups that are still, you know, active on the ground and things like that, they're going there. And they'll take a piece of the headstone and they'll gather it on his birthday

and they'll gather it on the day that he died. And it's going to be one of those cult followings that we can't stop what needs to happen in my opinion is he should be cremated and you know the family can do whatever they want with the ashes but you know it should be scattered here and yawn where nobody has a place where they can go to and give him any more publicity than he deserves. Well, Cheryl, what I'm thinking about is the slaughter, the horrible slaughter of those innocent people and the baby that was just days away from being born and them riding on the walls with the victim's blood. That's what I'm remembering. And I don't want to see Charles Manson glorified, except in hell, of course.

I want to take this moment and thank our partner for making our program possible today. And it is Circle. Circle. Circle with Disney. You know, it's so easy to just read a script going through all of the features, but I want to talk parent to parent. You know, we all know the Internet has so much to offer our children. They're going to grow up only knowing a world with the Internet. That's not the way we grew up, but there are parts, corners of the internet you don't want your children going to. It's hard enough to monitor

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with Circle Disney. You keep them safe, but you still use the Internet as you wish. Use offer code Nancy at circlewithnancy.com to get $10 off your Circle plus free shipping. Again, circlewithnancy.com. Offer code Nancy. Circlewithnancy.com. Offer code Nancy. $10 off your Circle and free shipping. Circle, I want to thank you for making the Internet a safer place for my two 10-year-olds. And I want to thank you for being a partner with us today. Nancy Grace,

Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.