Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Texas mom found dead, ex-husband charged, 2 children orphaned

Episode Date: September 12, 2017

The search for Crystal McDowell, the mom of 2 who went missing just before Hurricane Harvey slammed into her Texas town, ended with the discover her body in a wooded area. Her ex-husband was jailed on a murder charge. McDowell's boyfriend visits again with Nancy Grace in this episode, along with Crime Stories contributing reporter Paul Chambers and psychologist Caryn Stark. Nancy also introduces listeners to her friend Josh Sabarra and his new novel Enemies Closer," which one reviewer describes as "The Devil Wears Prada meets Bridget Jones's Diary with a sinister Hollywood twist."  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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of independent lawyers without being billed by the hour. Since LegalZoom is not a law firm, hurry to LegalZoom.com now for your free estate planning kit. No obligation, just great resources to help you protect what you care about, your family. For special savings, be sure to enter code NANCY, N-A-N-C-Y at checkout. LegalZoom.com. LegalZoom.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. 38-year-old Crystal McDowell was last heard from August 25th, shortly before Harvey hit Houston. Crystal McDowell's last Facebook post was,

Stay safe out there. The Baytown Realtor's body was found by Chambers County investigators in a wooded area in West Chambers County. McDowell's family says she was scheduled to pick up her two children from her ex-husband's home, but never showed. That ex-husband, 44-year-old Stephen Wayne McDowell, is now charged in her murder. With law enforcement trying desperately to keep people out of harm's way, this storm may have provided the ideal climate to cover a crime. Two young children are without a mother and their father is here at the Chambers County Jail. As soon as they heard she was missing, her friends knew. They knew what had happened. Nobody had to tell them. They did not read a police report.

They had not yet begun investigating where she was, her whereabouts, or what had become of her. When her friends heard this beautiful, young Texas realtor, a mother, Crystal McDowell, was missing, they knew. Crystal McDowell was missing, they knew. Crystal McDowell disappeared, vanished seemingly into thin air, just as Hurricane Harvey hit land. Just before Hurricane Harvey hit land, she was not missing because of a failed evacuation attempt.

No, someone used Harvey as cover to murder Crystal McDowell, according to police theory. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We're talking about a gorgeous young mom, a very successful realtor, starting a brand new romance with her dream guy when suddenly she seemingly just drops off the face of the earth. But today, answers. Joining me,

Paul Hargrave, Crystal's boyfriend, one of the last ones to see her. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist out of New York and Texas-based investigative reporter, Crime Stories contributing reporter, Paul Chambers. First to you, Paul Hargrave. I know hearing the most recent news that Crystal's body has been found is not the answer you wanted to hear. That is not the outcome. Paul, tell me what happened. And I know you've told the police over and over and over. And in fact, you've been a person of interest. You've been a POI, but that did not stop you from speaking out, trying to find her. Tell me everything you can remember about the morning Crystal drove away and you never saw her again. What happened that morning?

Any clue you can give me? Well, Nancy, she was always in high spirits that morning. She woke up and woke up very early. She was excited to pick up the kids, her two kids, from her ex-husband. She had stated that he went to work that day and that she needed to pick them up before he left for work. She was excited to take them out to the zoo or whatnot, depending on weather conditions. So she was very happy. And I have a great image of her in that way, leaving the house that morning. I wish I gave her a hug. I wish I gave

her a hug and a kiss before she left. I was unfortunately in the shower getting ready myself, but she was pretty happy that morning. Paul Hargrave with me in addition to Karen and Paul Chambers. Paul, you guys had spent what, the night or the weekend together? Yes, ma'am. We spent the previous weekend, we spent that Thursday evening together, and she left Friday morning. What were your plans for that night, for Friday night? Did she ever mention evacuating with her children? No, Nancy.

We decided to tentatively, pending weather conditions, stay in town, catch up on a TV series, and just hunker down, so to speak, and ride out the storm. It was Game of Thrones, and she wasn't all caught up like you were, and so you were going to catch her up, spend the night in, watching TV, having a good time, watching Game of Thrones, right? That's correct, Nancy. I mean, that's my dream come true.

Not Game of Thrones because the twins can't watch it, but being at home. I travel all the time. I work like a maniac. My dream is to come home, order in, get on the sofa, watch an awesome Disney show with the twins, and that is me in heaven. And that is what you and Crystal were planning for that night. Get some food, chill, and catch up on Game of Thrones. That's great.

And when she drove away that morning, everything was fine. Did you text her during the day? Yes, Nancy, I did. I sent her a couple of text messages that afternoon, that evening. I tried calling several times. I began to get extremely worried that Christian was not one to not reply back. She and I texted on a very frequent basis. So I started getting concerned when I didn't get any calls back. I didn't get any text messages. There was no correspondence from her whatsoever. And that's

when I became very alarmed. You know, Karen Stark, a lot of people would not think that was significant, but I do. And I guarantee you, any jury will. And the reason I'm focusing on this, Karen Stark, you know me well, is because I'm establishing a timeline. You know, Karen, when you write me, unless I don't see it, which has happened plenty of times, I write back immediately. When my husband or pretty much anybody writes me, I write back immediately. If it's something I don't know the answer to and I've got to find out about it, it'll take me a minute. But I think it's very significant. People have habits. Habits, they really can't change. And if she was one of those kind of people that write back immediately and that's her track record, if she didn't write back Karen Stark to me, that's the beginning of the timeline of her going missing. I agree with you.

It happens a lot when you have missing children. For instance, the parents begin to suspect something is very wrong when they don't receive answers to their texts the way they normally would. So people have routines, habits of how they behave. And this was hers. She was somebody who would, if she didn't get back to you immediately, would get back to you. And Paul was used to doing that. So I think that would be the way to begin the timeline of when she was gone.

And I know it seems very trivial to everybody else, but I'm telling you, when you're in front of a jury and you're establishing a timeline, don't you remember the O.J. Simpson case where Pete Sait, they start the timeline when they hear a dog barking and howling? That's when they start the timeline. I think it was Akita, the dog, just wailing. People heard it in the neighborhood, and that really started the timeline as they knew it.

That's all they had to go on. It's very, very significant that you narrow down the time and the opportunity of other potential persons of interest. Where were you at 7.30 that morning? Where were you at 8 o'clock? And you start narrowing it down as to who could have been around her at that time. Was she at a gas station? Was she at Walmart stocking up on water? Was she there with her ex-husband? That's what you're looking at at that time. Paul Hargrove, the boyfriend who has really been leading the charge in finding Crystal, you sent her a series of texts around 7.30 in the morning, and those were not delivered,

and she did not respond. Is that correct? She sent me several text messages. I replied back. And then I think it was approximately 11 a.m. I sent her a text message just checking on her to see how she was doing. And I just, you know, just a quick text to say, hey, I'm thinking about you. Let me know how things are going.

She didn't reply back. I want to go to Paul Chambers, crime stories contributing reporter, investigative journalist. Paul, thanks for being with us. Paul, where exactly was her body found? Well, Nancy, that information has not been released yet by the Chambers County Sheriff's Office. In fact, we were given very little information when Sheriff Brian Hawthorne took a couple of questions from reporters. All he would say about the discovery of the body is that it was found by detectives from his office and the Texas Rangers in a wooded area of West Chambers County.

Absolutely nothing other than that was told. A wooded area in West Chambers County. Listen to what police have to say in a late night press conference. On Saturday, September 26th, the Chambers County Sheriff's Office received a call regarding the welfare concern of a 37-year-old Crystal C. Wright McDowell, a 4,000 block of Bay Vista Drive in West Chambers County. An immediate investigation began into the whereabouts of Crystal, and throughout the two-week extensive investigation, several persons of interest were identified. Sheriff's Office detectives, along with the Texas Rangers and the Attorney General's Office investigators worked essentially around the clock, and today at 2.45 p.m.,

Crystal's body was discovered by the chambers county sheriff's detectives and texas rangers in a wooded area west chambers county an inquest has been ordered by justice of peace precinct 6 larry crier and stephen wayne mcdowell 44 has been arrested charged with murder which is a first-degree felony and booked into chambers county jail with bail to be set by court of competent jurisdiction. I'll take just a couple of questions, and then I've got to step back in. Do you believe the approaching storm had anything to do with the timing of this? We don't believe that the storm had anything to do with this crime.

And her children, I understand she was going to pick up her children at her ex-house. Did she ever get that far? Did they remain with him? Where were her kids? Currently, the kids are under the Department of Family Protective Services, but she did make it to and see her kids at Epcot for a day. And again, I'm sorry, the suspect's relationship to Miguel? Ex-husband. Okay, thank you. Was there any confession in this case?

And if so, what throw went up for that? Still pending in the investigation, and there will be more details to come out later. The search manager or the detective? No, the detectives in Texas Ranger's Family. EquiSearch was very helpful. They have worked for the last 72 hours assisting us. But in this particular case, she was actually found by detectives and managers. Thank you all very much.

Crystal McDowell vanishes after she tells her boyfriend she's headed to the ex-husband's house near Mont Bellevue to pick up her children eight and five. That was not unusual, but the two were in the middle of a divorce. Actually, the divorce had been finalized a few months earlier. She was extremely well-liked, and she was still officially staying in the ex's home while her baytown town home was under renovation now that's a tricky situation right there we all remember the movie the war of the roses where a divorcing couple lived under the same roof you know nothing good ever comes out of that but the husband was not named as a suspect now Now, Paul Hargrave, the boyfriend joining us today, led the charge in trying to find her, which I found very odd. Not that he would do it, but I would think the father of the children, even though there had been a divorce, would be part and parcel of the effort to find her.

Paul Hargrave, how did it feel to know you were a person of interest? It was frustrating, Nancy, but I understand the investigative process. I understand their protocol procedures to a certain degree. So I wasn't holding anything against them. My primary objective was to rule me out as quickly as possible so they could go on to the next person. I thought it was somebody close to Crystal. So I gave them, I dumped everything I had, I gave to them so they could start clearing my name and moving forward. And that's what I did.

You know, Paul Hargrave, you remind me so much of my longtime friend and colleague, Mark Klass, who famously cooperated when his daughter, Polly, was kidnapped from their own home, Polly's home, out of someone she had never met before, by someone she had never met before. Kidnapped, molested, and murdered. And the first person they look at, they come bamming on Mark Klaas' door. You know what he did? Exactly what you did, Paul Hargrave, which has kind of been the gold standard ever since. He's like, fine, search my place right now. I'm putting on my

jacket. I want to go right now and give you DNA, fingerprints, whatever you need now so you can get off me and find her. And Polly was found murdered. But the way he reacted, again, has been the gold standard for crime victims' families really ever since. And you did that, Paul, despite knowing you were a person of interest, and they could arrest you at any minute. You were the last person to see her. You were romantically involved with her. She had not responded to your text. I mean, police had a lot of reasons to look at you. That did not deter you. You kept on. In fact, you came on with me and answered a lot of

tough questions. You did not shy away from with me and answered a lot of tough questions. You did not shy away from the glare of a camera or a recording studio. And to me, that was a huge indicator. In fact, I remember after I first talked to you, I took off my headphones and turned around to Jack. He went, if they're after him, they're barking up the wrong tree. Back to Paul Chambers. Paul, her body was found in this heavily wooded area. Do we know the cause of death yet? No, actually an inquest was opened as soon as the body was found,

and we hope to get some more details in this coming week, but they're absolutely not saying anything about the cause of death. So playing it close to the vest, we also know that in the middle of Harvey making landfall, all of this was unfolding, but I kept going back to the timeline that she was missing before Harvey hit. And then the storm set in. Waterlogged roads and ongoing downpour and onslaught of heavy winds. How could they search for Crystal? Eventually, Crystal's partially submerged car

is spotted at a Motel 6 near Interstate 10. The very last ping from her cell phone traced back to a marshy area in Baytown. I want to go straight back to our review of the facts. Crystal's body has been found, we know now, in a heavily wooded area. That last ping from her phone was traced back to a marshy area in Baytown, and that was just a couple of days after her disappearance. Then time begins to pass. Time, days, weather is the state's worst enemy. It destroys evidence. It erases memories. Details become obscured and vanish. Still no crystal. During that time, Paul Hargrave, her boyfriend, speaking with us exclusively, what were you doing when you were trying to find her and each day was passing? Nancy, it was difficult.

I stayed at home. I didn't really answer any phone calls. I tried going to work. It was very difficult to concentrate. It was a lot of just soul-searching, praying, and couldn't help but feel somewhat responsible for this tragedy because we had met not that long ago, and things were going so well between us. And I took off a few days from work. I tried to go to

work. I just tried to stay focused. But it was a lot of soul searching, a lot of praying and hoping that she was going to come back to us. You know, you've told me in the past, I'm going to throw this to Karen Stark, you know, Paul Hargrave, Paul Chambers, investigative reporter joining us. I'm just a trial lawyer and a crime victim. I need to shrink on this. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist out of New York. Paul Hargrave has told me that he felt somehow responsible. Why would he feel that way, Karen? It's not uncommon, but I still don't understand it. It's a very natural reaction, as you well know, Nancy, to having somebody disappear and then losing them. You feel like there must have been something that you could do. There was something that you might have overlooked. It's very hard to just give up the

idea that you couldn't control the situation. And the brain keeps going back there trying to recreate what happened and see how you could have done something that would have saved the person. And you know, Paul, Paul Hargrave, I've been there, man. I'm telling you, I remember after Keith was murdered, I would wake up in the morning and at the very first seconds, Paul, I would think, I wouldn't register that it had happened. And all of a sudden it would hit me. And for the longest time, I would think that was not real. I would have to go ask my family. I know this doesn't make sense, Paul. I would say, is Keith dead?

Keith is dead, right? And they would have to say the words, Keith is dead. Because if they would say, mm-hmm, or it'll be okay. No, it's like it wasn't real. I couldn't take it in. I'd have to say, is Keith dead? Because it was so much to take in, I couldn't take it in. I would wake up thinking it must have been some horrible, horrible dream,

or I couldn't be right. It's like I knew it wasn't a dream, but that it couldn't be right. How did you learn, Paul Hargrave, that her body had been found? By a Texas Ranger calling me Saturday afternoon around 2 p.m. and letting me know that she was deceased and that she was found. Right now, we know that a suspect has been taken into custody to Paul Chambers, Texas-based Crime Stories reporter, contributor. Paul Chambers, what do we know?

Well, we know that McDowell is in the Chambers County Jail, that he is charged with murder. We know from Sheriff Brian Hawthorne directly that McDowell saw her kids, they're ages five and eight, on the likely day of her death, the day she disappeared. We also know, as I mentioned before, the body was found by detectives from the Sheriff's Office and Texas Rangers. There was a two-week search by a group called Texas EquiSearch, but apparently they did not have anything to do with the discovery of the body over the weekend. And we also know that the children of Crystal are now in the custody of Child Protective Services. Yeah, I've dealt with Texas EquiSearch quite a lot. Many, many times they came in to search.

Their leader, their founder, is a crime victim himself. His daughter went missing. You know, Paul Hargrave, you have been very clear that you believe her ex-husband is responsible for her death. Why? What makes you say that? Well, I think there was a motive there, Nancy. I had never met Steve, but I felt that based on our conversations between Crystal and I and the concerns that she voiced with me, the heated debates that she was having with her ex-husband that week, and how well we were progressing, she was going to move in, Nancy.

We were going to start a life together and i and so this for this tragedy to happen i automatically um just made that assumption that that the ex-husband had something to do with this based on um based on the events that it that had happened i can't imagine that waiting period before she was found, before the ex was arrested, because over a week after Crystal disappears, the storm had been cleared enough for search crews to begin searching parts of Baytown

near that final cell phone ping. They kept coming up empty-handed. Then Texas Echo Search comes in. They come up empty-handed and then call off the search. That must have been a huge blow to you and to her family when Texas EquiSearch calls off the search. Days go on and then the persons of interest list balloons to up to 10 people, including her own uncle, Paul, the new boyfriend, the ex-husband. The friends were worried, and now this arrest has gone down.

It is not the answer the family wanted. What do we know about their animosity? I understand Crystal just wanted to move on and start a new life. What was their seething jealousy and resentment? I understand she's the one that wanted the divorce, Paul. Yes, she did. She filed for divorce, I believe, in February of this year. And Crystal filed for divorce well before you guys became an item to Karen Stork, psychologist. I still don't understand it. Why? And typically it's men, but women too.

Why murder seems to be some sort of alternative to divorce? In this case, Nancy, they were divorced, but I do know that we've looked at this so many times. I feel like if somebody has that rage inside of them for being left, for being rejected, then they wind up murdering because divorce is not enough. They can't bear the thought that the other person will go on and have a life and that they don't own that person anymore. What do we know to Paul Chambers, investigative reporter, about the ex-husband now charged in the death of this beautiful, missing Texas realtor? What do we know about Steve McDowell? Well, Nancy, I have been scanning the Facebook post by Crystal's friends, and I did see one interesting comment by one of her friends, and that was that McDowell was unrecognizable to her in his mugshot that was taken over the weekend. He has a shaved head in the mugshot.

And so I thought that was a very interesting comment. Of course, her friends are shocked and very, very sad about what has happened as they should be. I'm looking at him right now with his head shaved. He looks like he's straight out of your worst nightmare. Crystal's ex-husband, the divorce was finalized in June. Why couldn't he go on with his life? He's got two beautiful children to build a life around. Steve McDowell has been charged in Crystal's murder after her body was

recovered after she goes missing and again as soon as her friends knew she was missing they claim they knew. They knew Crystal McDowell was not swamped in the storm. There was no evacuation. She wasn't lost. She didn't elope. According to her longtime friend Morgan Ramondi, quote, I knew immediately she was deceased. But it took quite a while for police to confirm what her friends already feared. All this going down with the backdrop of Hurricane Harvey hitting, hitting, making landfall and destroying the area. Quote, according to her friend, when Steve decided he could not have her, nobody else could.

He made the decision for her children, her family, and friends. He took her away from all of us because of his one selfish act. To boyfriend Paul Hargrave. Did you see it coming? Was his rhetoric that hateful? Was she afraid, Paul? No, I mean, Nancy, I don't. She never reached out to me in a way that I felt like she was in fear of her life. If that were the case, I would not have allowed her to go to the house by herself,

or I would have gone with her or had someone go with her. But to my knowledge, I had no idea. I had no idea he was capable of something like this. And no, I had no idea. I wish I didn't. Karen Stark, why is it that women, it's not just Crystal, they keep marital discord a secret? For instance, you know, so many women that are abused, that are beaten and tormented, they don't tell anybody. Or in this case, she finally finds Mr. Wright, who is Paul Hargrave, and doesn't want him to think, oh, I'm getting into a big tangled mess. I don't want to, you know, like put my hand, try to tear two fighting dogs apart. I'm not putting my hand in that dog fight. I mean, she probably was afraid of what everyone's reaction would be, especially Paul, if he knew how bad it was. Afraid and ashamed.

That's what happens so many times because people blame themselves, even when it comes to somebody treating them poorly. It's very hard to not feel like, look at the choice I made. What did I do that he would be like this with me? Especially women, because they so often don't have that self-confidence to understand that people make mistakes, that you may have picked the wrong person for you, and that you need to speak up because you are defenseless. Paul Chambers, where is the ex now? Well, he is in the Chambers County Jail, and I will mention to you, Nancy, that Sheriff Hawthorne did make a comment directly with the Houston Chronicle that the reason they arrested him was based on circumstantial evidence, talks with friends of Crystal and the family. And he mentions that there is a very forthcoming interview that was given by the suspect. So that's interesting.

I don't know. They don't call it a confession. I'm interested to find out exactly what he said, but whatever he said was conflicting enough for them to know he was lying. I mean, at the very beginning, Paul Hargrave, the uncle who was like Crystal's dad to her, her parents were both deceased, said, she never told me she was going to evacuate with the children.

She never told me a thing about driving to Dallas. In fact, she had appointments that day. She's never missed an appointment. He worked with her at the real estate office. Right then, I wondered, why would the ex-husband come up with that story if, in fact, he did. One of the two of them had to be lying, either the uncle or the ex-husband. And then you look at who has skin in the fight, who has skin in the game, who's got a dog in the fight, who has a reason to lie. That's where I started this scenario.

Alan Duke, please tell me, Paul Hargrave has advised me there is a GoFundMe account for her children. Do you have the information? Nancy, the money being raised will go to help little Maui and Madden McDowell. They've suddenly lost both parents. Their mother murdered, their father in jail facing a murder charge. Their uncle set up a donation page for the children at YouCaring.com. Go to YouCaring.com. That's Y-O-U-C-A-R-I-N-G dot com. And search Crystal McDowell to contribute.

Right now, her friends, her family are hurting. There has been a flurry of phone calls, of emails, of texts, of grief. As they all remember a beautiful lady that they describe as a playful mother and the life of the party. Boy, do I have a treat for you today. My longtime friend, and of course, we're going to have to tell our story. Josh Sabara is with me. Wait, are you trying to talk while I'm talking? Did I just hear a mumble?

No, it was a giggle. Because that's way rude, okay? Let me guess right now. You have on a black jacket, a black shirt, some brand new appropriately torn slash worn looking jeans, and some spicy black boots that you paid way too much for at John Varvatos, who I did not know who that was until you told me, Josh. Well, this is a Hollywood story, Nancy, so I have to look the part. And let me remind you that you cannot live in those shoes when you're 65,

so please stop buying them. You know what? There was an old woman who lived in a shoe, you might remember. And when I looked in your closet, which of course, I waited until you looked the other way, and they went through all your things and stole a t-shirt. But there's just like row upon row of black shoes. And what's really scary is they're all facing the same way. I was so frightened by how neat the closet was, I ran away before I could see.

Are you one of those people that push those wooden things that smell like a cedar tree into your shoes? No, I don't. But you're actually... Oh, thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Your observation isn't entirely accurate. Every shoe is not facing the same way. There's a front facing and a back facing of each shoe because some of the detail is on the back of the shoe and I need to know what I'm putting on. Okay, I just had to pause and let that sink in for a moment. But I'm not here about your shoes, Josh. Okay, I'm here about your new book, Enemies Closer. Okay, look at this. I'm looking at your press release. For immediate release, bestselling author Josh Sabara delivers an, quote, irreverent, laugh-out-loud, funny debut novel exposing with, quote,

striking authenticity the glamour and grit of insider Hollywood. Enemies Closer, a novel, hits shelves September 12. You know what? I learned a lot about Hollywood during Dancing with the Stars, most of which I will not repeat because I'm a vault. I am a vault. And I learned that from being a lawyer, you don't win cases by blabbing people's secrets. Let me rephrase that. You don't keep winning cases by blabbing people's secrets. Okay. Some things must be kept to yourself forever and ever. I don't even tell my husband about things that I find out about different people's lives during trials. Let me ask you, Josh, you chose to leave a happy home

in Florida and then New York to travel to LA and live there in Hollywood. Why? Well, it was career dictated at the time. You know, I was working for Disney, doing publicity for feature films. And, you know, essentially, if you're going to move up the Hollywood food chain, you need to be at headquarters, which is L.A. So there's only so far I could get in New York. So I guess ambition brought me to Hollywood. You have headed a major studio, not only a movie studio, but PR for it, but PR for a major cable network. Tell me about it. As much as I'd love to just keep talking about you,

Josh Sabara, as exciting as it all is with your shoes and your food chain. I know it's among your favorites. Yes. Can we talk about enemies closer? Tell me all about it. Wait a minute. Are you actually the starlet? Is this you as a woman, as a chubby woman? And I'm

not throwing a stone. You know my battle with food, okay? Basically, I love it. Go ahead. Well, I don't like to call her chubby. I like to call her full figure. Okay, I'll go with that. Which sounds, you know, because she's basically the size of an average American woman, which is, you know, a 14, 16, you know, teetering on 18.

And that's what she is. And she has to function in this world in Hollywood where everybody's a 10 looking for an 11. Everybody is tall, unnaturally thin. I mean, really, everybody looks alike. And, I mean, I feel way out of place at just a size 6, much less size 8 and beyond. Yeah, no, Hollywood is a little bit of a machine that way. is somebody who works within the system but doesn't necessarily conform to the standard of the industry in terms of looks. And one of the important things in this book for me was to make sure that she's concerned about, you know, she obviously reads tabloids, she's a PR person, so she has to look at the news and she sees the images of these people in town. And, of course, she thinks that getting a little thinner might be the answer to some of her problems.

But, you know, through the course of the book, obviously, we all know that's not the answer to anything. And she comes to sort of accept herself the way she is, and she becomes more concerned about her health than what the weight loss will do for her look. What's the name of your heroine? Marcy. Marcy. And she's a full-figured young lady in the PR business in Hollywood. Okay. I figured out why everybody is so grumpy and anxious, and there's so much road rage out there.

They're hungry. That's what's wrong. They haven't had enough to out there, they're hungry. That's what's wrong. They haven't had enough to eat, and they're mad about it. There's ice cubes for breakfast. Just aren't enough. They're mad. Now, let me get into, okay, so she is in the PR business, which you know so well.

Right. But then somehow she is befriended with a coven. I mean, excuse me, a group of Hollywood ladies. What happens? Who said coven? When you work on films and TV shows, you know, a lot of times having to work with the filmmakers and the cast in the trenches, you know, you can't help but become friendly with people. And Marcy becomes friendly with the wife of the star of one of the movies she's working on. And she becomes sort of ensnared in this web of women who have all either been famous at one time or are married to famous men.

So they're not really famous. They're kind of, were famous or attached to, as I like to say, famousosity. They're attached famous or attached to, as I like to say, famousosity. They're attached to fame. It's what I like to call famous adjacent. Famous adjacent. I'm like, hey, listen to this. With the pitch-perfect eye of a true insider, Josh Sabara skewers the Hollywood machine in Enemies Closer,

a deliciously fast-paced, fun, and occasionally heartbreaking novel. You know I don't want a sad story. I'm on murder scenes. I'm dealing with crime victims' families. Why does there have to be heartbreak? Why? Why can't anything just be funny and light? Why, Josh?

You're so dark. Because that's not real life. And in order for this story to be relatable people need to as as you said at the beginning sort of get the grit and the glamour and you know you know how they say you know that you can't really you know experience the joy if you don't know what the pain is true actually sort of how that. Sort of how that story unfolds. Well, I love it. And I'm not going to give away the ending, but could you just please give us more about what she goes through? So she gets, as you said, ensnared, but she falls into what she thinks is a friendship. She thinks is a friendship.

Right. Well, a number of friendships because it's this, you know, as I say in Hollywood, the wolves come in packs. So usually, you know, there are people within a group and she becomes part of this group. All of the members, you know, are sort of have ulterior motives. And, you know, then there's sort of a secondary story that runs along where she also is introduced to an up and coming celebrity who seems to be interested in her affection. You mean a guy?

Mm-hmm. And she has a hard time dealing with that. Mr. Josh. Yes. Let me understand your motivation here. Okay. Now these are a series of yes and no answers. Josh Sabara, author of the new book, Enemies Closer, a novel.

It'sember 12th josh sabera again this is cross exam yes you have written a book titled enemies closer is that correct yes and in this book your heroine flirts with love is that correct yes what if anything, do you know about love? I retract the question. Do you have children, Josh Sabara? No. Have you ever changed a diaper? I mean a full-on poopy pants. Yes.

Josh, don't count your nieces. Your sister was hovering over you with a bottle of Lysol. It doesn't count. I think there was a John David and Lucy diaper in there somewhere along the way. Oh, yeah. Okay. I know I wasn't standing by with a bottle of Lysol. Okay. So you may have changed one. Wait a minute. John David and Lucy have never in their life pooped their pants because they're perfect. That's a lie. That is a lie. They were born potty trained. Your credibility is destroyed already. I have destroyed you.

I've cracked you on cross-exam. So back to you and what you know or don't know, as I would suggest, about love. Now, I've wanted you to adopt a baby. I have wanted you to be in a committed relationship. Someone is resisting. But you believe that you know love enough that you can write about it. Is that correct?

Yes. I rest my case. Josh, question to you. But I didn't tell you how it all pans out for Marcy. So what I know about love, what I know about love doesn't necessarily mean that's what Marcy knows or doesn't know. Are there any Broadway teens involved in any love scenes? No. Okay, okay, good to know that.

Now, let's get back to your book, what I predict to be a best-selling book. You've also been around the block once or twice, not only running PR for a studio, a movie studio, but also for a cable network and for private individuals. How did you channel that? And from all of your Hollywood friendships, enemies, frenemies, the works, how did you channel that into this book without actually, you didn't pattern a single character after any single person. Well, of course not wink wink um i mean yes of course there's some of my experience in there but you know but but the the story and the conceit and all of that is purely fiction but you know it's it's hard to

move in this world and have seen the kinds of things that you see in Hollywood as you experienced when you were out here and not somehow incorporate that into your worldview or at least your fiction. I like the way it's described. The devil wears Prada meets Bridget Jones's diary with a sinister Hollywood twist. What I like about it, Josh, is that it's really funny. And yes, there are moments that are poignant and there is heartbreak, but I can just see you tapping away, writing this. And a lot of people have asked how Josh Sabara and I have become such good friends. And I'll tell you, I was a county prosecutor after becoming a crime victim for 10 straight years in inner city Atlanta.

And I was offered a job on MTV and said no. I was happy. But then my elected DA, who was the longest serving DA in the country at that time, was like a grandfather to me, retired. I called him back and went, hey, you know that job with Johnny Cochran? I'll take it. And I moved to New York with two boxes of clothes, curling iron, and $300 to my name. What could go wrong, right?

And almost on day one, a dog ran up to me and was barking. I started petting it, and it was attached to this guy, and his name was Josh Sabara. And then we would always meet at the corner over by Plaza Diner. I'll let you tell that one. Yeah, our little go-to diner on the corner of the street where we lived. And so I would be walking Remington with a little Jack Russell. And he used to love you, so he used to run up to you.

And that's how we met, basically. And then we discovered that we lived across the hall from each other after meeting on the street. I would say down the hall, because you were at one end with your sister, and I was all the way at the other end. And then you left out. Tony, Tony, Tony. Yes. Yes. The how would we describe him? He was a guy on the corner that sat there every day for people to give him money because he was he was not well. And I would always stop. That was my first friend in New York. I would sit there and talk to Tony, Tony, Tony.

Yep, and you would always give him a little something. I'd always see you walking by, give him a little something. And then you and I would meet at the corner and talk to Tony, Tony, Tony and go to Plaza Diner for pancakes. Yeah. Good times. So, Josh, now you're a famous author. Right.

Tell me about your stops where you're going to have book signings, because I'm really looking forward to this. The book launches in L.A. at Barnes & Noble at The Grove on, well, I guess it'll be tomorrow, the 13th. Now, The Grove is, I wouldn't call it a shopping center. It's more like a shopping center slash high profile slash celebrity destination spot the grove yes right yes so it's more of an outdoor shopping area so i'm not sort of the west coast uh flagship barnes and noble so i'll be there is that the place where the twins saw santa when i was out doing dancing stores that's right yeah yeah yeah it's adjacent to dancing with the star to to this to cbs so if you recall when you would finish dancing we used to go I was out doing dancing at stores. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's adjacent to CBS.

So if you recall, when you would finish dancing, we used to go through that gate to those restaurants. That was part of the Grove. So you're having the signing there. So that starts the signings, and then I go to... What day is that? That's tomorrow, Wednesday the 13s. And then I go to... What day is that? That's tomorrow, Wednesday, the 13th. And then I go to New York, to Barnes & Noble Union Square. And I will be there on Monday,

the 18th of September at 7pm. And then I fly to Florida. And I will be in West Palm Beach at Barnes & Noble Wellington on Saturday, September 23rd at 4 p.m. And then I come back to L.A. and do a bunch of cities here. I'm going to be in Huntington Beach and Studio City and Valencia and West Hollywood. So there are quite a few events. Hey, how can I, do you have that posted, your lineup of where you're going to be, Josh? If people follow me on social media, at Josh Sabara, there is no lack of information of where I will be. Or sadly, where you have been.

Where I have been, yes. Okay, here we go. I like this synopsis. Marcy Brooks feels ordinary. She's stuck in a mid-level job, struggles to accept her size 16 figure, and dreams of a man who might look past her waistline and into her heart. Wow. When the wife of a screen legend befriends her during a project, her life instantly turns from drab to dazzle. I want to tell you something, Josh. The other day, the twins came home,

and they said they could get extra credit if they put on an index card a proverb, and they didn't even know what a proverb was. So they wanted me to give them a proverb. And I gave John David, the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, which has comforted me many times in life when I didn't know which way to go. But the other one really applies to this book and to Marcy. All that glitters is not gold.

That is correct. I believe that's actually part of the synopsis. Josh, I just love you. And I am so proud of Enemies Closer. And I'll see you at your book signing. Thank you. And I love you back. Bye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.