Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Texas mother shoots and kills two little girls, police say

Episode Date: August 31, 2018

Hear the heart wrenching 911 call made by a dad who's letting police know his two little girls have been shot. Nancy Grace delves into who did it and why.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two little girls dead. Two little girls found in their Maybank, Texas home, 55 miles southeast of Dallas. What happened? How did two little girls end up dead by gunshot wound? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. Listen to this 911 call. CMF, this is Patricia. Yes, ma'am. I just wanted to get somebody to come out here and check my life out. Okay, what's the address of the emergency? This is Patricia. Yes ma'am, I was wondering if I could get somebody to come out here and check my life out. Okay, what's the address of the emergency? Okay, what city?

Maybank, Texas. Okay, please repeat the address for verification. Repeat it? Yes, sir. Forest Lane Drive. Hey. Forest Lane Drive, Maybank, Texas. Okay, give me just one moment please.

Stop. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police.

Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. Okay, I'm going to call the police. man he sounds pretty calm to have two dead children did he know the girls were dead when he called because i i don't believe that would be my reaction. I can remember, and you were with me at this time, Jason Oceans. Do you remember when I went out to Dancing with the Stars and I got a phone call? And I was told my mom had cancer. And I remember getting on the phone. I immediately started calling people, trying to get us all back to where she was out of LA and when I was on the phone I could hear my voice and it was really loud and really high pitch I could hear it and I knew it didn't sound like me but it was me so Jason you after all the cases you've handled you don't think

this guy sounds unusually calm does sound unus, Nancy, and I remember that incident with your mom. And it's almost as if you could hear a heart beating through that phone so loud because it's literally pumping out of your chest. Your adrenaline is just, I mean, notwithstanding that these me out of New York, also with me, guys, Dr. Brian Russell, psychologist and lawyer. Okay, Jason, he's got a leg up on us. He's going to rub it in our noses. He's not just a lawyer. He's also a psychologist, and he's the host of Investigation our noses he's not just a lawyer he's also a psychologist and

he's the host of investigation discoveries hit series fatal vows okay so you know just chew on those sour grapes jason motions uh dr brian russell with us also francy haig's former federal prosecutor and john limley crime online.com investigative reporter before i to a conclusion here, I need to hear a little bit more. I don't know the circumstances around this 911 call. All I know right now at this juncture, two little girls are dead by gunshot wound, and I've got this seemingly normal 911 call. Hold on. Let's listen to more. Hello?

Yes, sir. This is Tricia from EMS. We got this we got disconnected yes ma'am okay tell me exactly what's going on um my wife she's like i don't know like oh something's going on with her okay can you describe what's going on the symptoms like she's like she's freaking out like somebody Somebody's out to get her. Okay, give us just one moment. She won't listen to me. She won't talk to me. I'm good. I'm good. No, you're not. Yes, I'm good. I'm okay. This is not good.

Is she awake? Okay, I promise. Yes, ma'am. Is she breathing? Yes, ma'am. She's saying she's all right now. Okay, now I'm starting to understand what's happening, why he's so calm. To John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and P.S., if you want the breaking crime and justice news, go to CrimeOnline.com.

It's always right there. John Limley, the first call when I was commenting, wow, why is he so calm? The girls were not dead yet. That's why. That's why. That's absolutely correct. It was still a few hours away, in fact.

If I could go back and sort of set the scene as far as this man's voice. I knew that you would, John Limley. You love, quote, setting the scene. Okay, go ahead. But FF it. Fast forward. I want to find out why are there two little dead girls in the home. But go ahead. Set the scene for Pete's sake. Set the scene. Okay, go ahead. But FF it. Fast forward. I want to find out why are there two little dead girls in the home? But go ahead. Set the scene for Pete's sake. Set the scene.

Gladly. Jacob and Sarah Henderson. That's the wife he's talking about. They lived in a wooded life. Wait a minute, John Limley. Okay. The man and the woman are married and they live in the home together with the two little girls. Let me understand. The husband, that's the husband's voice I hear being so calm. They somehow get disconnected. I can only imagine how. And the operator calls the number back. Is that the mom that also sounded extremely calm? Is that the mother we're talking about?

Correct. In the background, you can hear Sarah Henderson. They lived with their two little girls, seven-year-old Kaylee and five-year-old Kinley. Jacob, incidentally, not the children's biological father. In photos you can find on Facebook and elsewhere, you can see the couple smiling, having a good time at various gatherings. In one photo, the girls are dressed in identical white tutus and cowboy boots at some community event. They're obviously the hit of that evening. Just as cute as they can be, they made quite the impression of a close, happy, carefree family. Things were different, though, behind closed doors, especially before

Jake even entered the scene. When the girls were younger, just little babies, really, Sarah had been no stranger to child protective services. She had spent time with social workers who had been checking all the girls' welfare. In a case from when the girls were just an infant and a toddler, social workers found, quote, considerable or extreme child vulnerability. And you'll see what I mean by that. Reports found Henderson and her boyfriend at the time were not providing appropriate supervision, resulting in the child, and this is another quote from the report,

eating feces, falling off a truck, and being hospitalized for possibly... Okay, stop right there. Stop right there. Stop right there. I was just waiting for you to tell me what the charge was exactly. Francie Hakes with me, former federal prosecutor and also named by the federal government as really the czar, or I guess in your case, the czarina, of abducted and exploited children. That's a huge, huge task. Francie Hicks joining me. You know, when I, right now I'm getting chills on my arms, Francie, because these children were in danger and Child Protective Services knew about it the baby is eating human feces

falling off a truck i mean did you see the other day francy uh where a woman got cps called on her when she let her child her eight or elevenold daughter, walk around the block with the dog, take the dog on a walk alone. She gets a CPS call. And yet they leave these children in the home. Now the children are dead. I mean, how does CPS live with themselves, Francie? But again, it's not them. It's the parents that are letting this happen.

Here's the mom with some boyfriend slung up in the house. Not judging. Don't care. up in the house, not judging. Don't care. Don't judge me, Marley. I will not judge you. So she's got that situation going on with the boyfriend. But I will judge her as it relates to the way the children are treated. And now, common denominator, mommy.

Mommy. Now she has a husband and the children are still being mistreated. They're dead, Francie. Nancy, this is just an appalling case, but I have really one key question, and I don't think I can answer yours. Ultimately, the criminal is the one responsible for the crime. We can all agree on that, but Nancy, how many cases have we seen where Child Protective Services knows about neglect and even abusive behavior. Their goal is to reunite these families to the extent they're ever not united.

And it is almost always at the expense of the child. When will we actually protect children? Because I don't see it happening yet. I want to hear what, I still don't, with all of your same setting, John, I still don't know exactly what happens with the children. Let's go a little further in the 911. I'm good. I'm good. No, you're not.

Yes, I'm good. I'm okay. You're not good. Is she awake? Okay, I promise. Yes, ma'am. Is she violent? No, ma'am. She's fine now.

Okay, we can still have them come out and check her out, okay? Alright. Okay, does she have a weapon? No, ma'am. Where is she right now? Right here in front of me. Is this a suicide attempt? No, ma'am.

Is she thinking about committing attempt? No, ma'am. Is she thinking about committing suicide? No. Is she completely alert? Yeah, it's just a different state of mind. Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. You're listening to Crime Stories. We're bringing you the story, the real story, the real case of two little Texas girls found dead in their own home.

And we've been playing a 911 call, a series of them, where the husband is calling in that something's wrong with his wife. But as we just ended, we hear him say, OK, she's fine. You hear her in the background, extremely calm. But just seven minutes later, listen to this. Henderson County, 911. Yes. My wife. calm but just seven minutes later listen to this henderson county 9-1-1 okay is this jacob okay what is your wife's name she's trying to commit what do you keep grabbing your neck what is her name sir sarah henderson sarah henderson yes okay you can't wait all right and how old are the children seven and five that just seven minutes later and the children are dead and he's saying she was trying to kill

herself, but whoopsie, she killed the two children. And Jackie Howard here in the studio is going, did you hear him say she's grabbing her own neck trying to strangle herself? Really, Jackie? Why didn't she use the gun on herself? What about that? I am not buying any of it. Claiming she was trying to commit suicide. Why is that, Dr. Brian Russell? You're the psychologist and the lawyer, host of Investigation Discovery's Fatal Vows. Why is it they always say, I was trying to commit suicide, but instead I slaughtered all my children and I lived? Yeah, actually, we've seen this time and time again in case after case on Fatal Vows where someone has said, oh, I came in and I caught the person right in the throes of a suicidal attempt,

and I tried to stop it, and we struggled for the gun, and lo and behold, I shot them. So it's actually more common than you might think for people to try to use that. To me, that means, oh, okay, I see where you're headed. They're trying to use the suicide claim. Joining me, Jason Oceans, trial lawyer in multiple jurisdictions, Dr. Brian Russell, discovery ID, fatal vows, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor, and John Limley, investigative

reporter with CrimeOnline.com. Okay, let me understand John Limley. So seven minutes before this, he's on the phone with 911. He said, my wife is acting erratic. She thinks somebody's after her. Everything's fine. And you can hear the woman on the phone. She sounds perfectly normal. In the background. Then seven minutes later, the children are dead. What happened? Yeah, in the background, you can hear Sarah asking, why did I do that, Jake? Now, according to Jake, he had just fallen back asleep and was awakened by his wife right by his side in his ear say, Jake, I shot the kids.

And in the 911 call, you can hear Jacob alerting police to what they would find. The girls reported to be Kaylee and Kenley. They were asleep in the living room, and that is where Sarah shot them. This is also what I know. That second call comes in at 2.24 a.m. And Jason Oceans, you've tried, I guess, as many or more cases than I have. I've always told juries, nothing good happens after midnight. Nothing good.

It's 2.24 a.m., and she shoots her children. Now, what about this, Jason Oceans? We now know there's a mental defect defense going on, but she immediately comes in and tells her husband hey honey i i just shot the kids she knows exactly what she did jason how are you going to handle that at trial i mean her insanity was so temporary it only lasted a few minutes competency versus sanity will be the uh will be the uh you know the aspect of the defense as you go through that i think for me though nancy'm more interested in the fact that he went back to sleep seven minutes

from when he was calling the police relentlessly and seeing his wife was, you know, out of her mind. And by the way, where was the gun? I think, you know, if Child Protective Services is bringing the family back together, I sort of would like to know if there was a legal gun in possession and what that actually took to use. Where's the gun? That's your concern? I'm concerned about 7-year-old Kelly and 5-year-old Kenley. Both shot execution style in the head.

So, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor, how crazy is that, do you think, that she can go in, she waits till her husband is asleep, much like Andrea Yates waited for her husband, Rusty, to leave to go to work, then she locks all the doors and systematically kills one child after the next and then lays them on the bed. Here, we've got her waiting till the husband is back asleep, retrieving the weapon, shooting each child execution style in the head as they lay defenseless and sleeping. Well, it doesn't sound much like insanity to me. It sounds like very much of a plan.

I'm also curious, Nancy, about the husband's claim that he was awakened by her telling him she shot the children. You know and I know, we're from the South. We know what a gunshot sounds like. There were at least two of them. How did that not awaken the husband? Well, hold on. Let me correct everybody. I never knew anything about a gun, period,

until my fiancé was murdered. Now, I don't know about everybody else in the, quote, South. I do find it unusual. He didn't hear anything. But, Francie, for all I know, that adds to her planning that she somehow muffled the sound of the gun. That's a great point, Nancy. She very well could have. And I think it's also interesting that as a society, we think if a mother kills her children, there must be something wrong with her. It's easy to buy the insanity claim. But we have that other

example recently of the father in Colorado who murdered his wife and two daughters. No one's really saying he was insane. It's just evil. Why is there a difference in treatment? Well, hold on to your hat, everybody. Because listen to this. In the last hours, a stunning new and bizarre twist in the story. We're learning now that this horrific case has taken another turn.

Investigators just announcing that mommy, Sarah Henderson, had planned for at least two weeks to kill her children. Two weeks. And not only that, she also planned to kill the husband, too. But the entire crime did not go as planned because the gun seemingly malfunctioned when she tried to kill Jacob too. I guess they tried to make it look like a home invasion. Yes, she planned it for two weeks. John Limley, give me the latest. Well, that Maybach mother accused of shooting her two children, she will undergo further testing, but has so far by two doctors been found competent to stand trial. The defense has requested that she be tested by

three doctors for insanity. Let's take a listen and figure out what we can learn from the rest of the 911 call. Was the husband in on it? Is he the innocent victim? What we know right now is this case has taken a stunning, bizarre, and dark twist. Did mommy plan the murder of her two little girls, ages five and seven, for two weeks? Are they in the bedroom, sir? They're in the living room and they're not breathing? No. Were you home when she did this or did you just get home? I was asleep. You were asleep?

Yeah. Is she under the influence of any drugs or alcohol? No. They were asleep. They were asleep in the living room and then she went in there? Yes. I wasn't asleep. And were you asleep in the bedroom? Yes.

Okay. Was Sarah asleep in the bedroom with you when she got up? I guess. She was asleep when I went to sleep last night. And I woke up, she come in there, she was talking about this young kid. And I didn't want to believe it. I went in there and they were dead. You are hearing the husband of Sarah Henderson. He sounded genuine to me.

You know, at first you've got to look at him as a possible accomplice because they're both the adults in the home. The children are dead. Was he part of it but i'm telling you uh to me and this is just i'm just a trial lawyer you're the shrink dr brian russell host of id's fatal vows he sounds genuine i believe i agree i agree he sounds genuinely distraught and uh at this point it doesn't sound like there's any reason to believe that he had anything to do with the planning to john limley investigative reporter crime online.com so the dad is saying he's asleep the husband the two little girls dead kaylee and kenley are dead and we're hearing the 911 call he sounds genuine to. I don't think he was part of this, John Limley. We have no reason to believe that he was involved whatsoever. This seems to have

come out of absolute thin air as far as he was concerned. Well, I want to tell you another fact that we've learned. Jason Oceans, we now hear that the neighbors say that she, Sarah Henderson, acted strangely. Now, I thought at first when I learned that new piece of evidence that was going to go to an insanity defense. I mean, was she walking around the neighborhood naked? Was she, you know, talking to the dog in the front yard or the trees? I don't know. Exhibiting unusual behavior. No. What they mean by that is that she was constantly screaming at her children. Quote, neighbor says, Jalen Palmer,

you just heard her yelling at the kids all the time. You know what? Last night, Jason, the twins, they have selected instruments. Today is the first day they got to take their instruments to school. Lucy, as I say, has the bassinet, which drives her crazy. It's the clarinet, but I keep saying bassinet every time. And every time she never catches on, I'm doing it on purpose. She goes, Mom, it's the clarinet. And John David has the sax. Okay. Thank you, Lord. He did not pick the tuba, okay, which he was considering thanks to my husband. Anyway, he did pick the sacks. So last night, he comes up behind me as I'm trying to get supper ready.

He goes really loud, boom, blast. I jumped and I turned around to him and I had like a mean look. And he looked so upset on his little face. And I immediately smiled and went, that's okay. I was just scared. I have thought about it. I woke up in the night thinking, why did I turn around with an irritated look on my face? I mean, I didn't even say anything, but just the look. I feel so bad about it because he's such a jolly, happy boy. And Lucy's all like, introspective and thinking all the time and write scribbling notes to herself.

And so I immediately hugged him and told him he's awesome. But I still think about it. You know, people notice when you yell and scream at your children all the time. At the grocery store or anywhere else when you get annoyed with them. Okay, so I'm beating myself up over the trumpet blast in the ear. And the neighbors had heard the mob just screaming at the children. In the last days, new charges have been added in a formal indictment. New charges for this Maybank woman we know for a fact guns down her children.

But in the last days, her bail amount has been raised to $2.1 million. And 30-year-old Sarah Nicole Henderson now charged with two counts of capital murder, one count of attempted murder, and one count of assault on a public servant. Okay, I'm trying to figure out what all the charges actually are. Listen to this. I'm not safe. I'm not safe. I just need some help. We're getting them out there as fast as we can. Okay, Mr. Henderson. Please. I mean, do you hear that, Jason Oceans? Your client is claiming, I'm not insane. I'm not insane.

I'm not insane. That's not going to help the trial. That doesn't go towards anything. Competency and sanity, as I said before, are much different. So it's fairly routine to have another, you know, the defense to have another examination based on that. But clearly it would take most of the that... She's telling us, Jason. That's not dispositive, Nancy. If she actually were clinically well,

that would just go further to prove that she actually was consigned. So that's not going to be the determinative fact. Jason, don't throw your big lawyer words at me. That's not dispositive. What he's trying to say is that doesn't prove anything. And I will give you this, Jason Oceans. Crazy people never think they're crazy. They think they're perfectly sane. It's the same ones that go, am I crazy? When something doesn't make sense? I mean, Dr. Brian

Russell, that's an anecdote. But are we right about that? Yeah, I think you're making an important point, which is that anytime somebody has massive motivation to make themselves out to be crazy, you've got to take that with a grain of salt. The vast majority of us do not want to be seen as crazy. And we would be horrified if we thought that we picked up on some signs that maybe something was off with us mentally. Guys, I'm looking at the brand new charges in the indictment. John Limley, explain what they are. We've got two counts of capital murder. And when they say capital, this is Texas. You get more than one body under the law, that's mass murder.

She could be looking at the death penalty, but let's not put the cart before the horse. We've got two counts of capital murder, one count of attempted murder. I'm assuming that's on the husband who's lying there asleep. And then one count of assault on a public servant. Explain to me what the counts are, John. Well, the two capital offenses, that is the murder of the two little girls, and the assault on the public servant arose two days later while Sarah Henderson was being held in the Henderson County Jail, where she is accused of striking a detention officer while he was attempting to release her from her restraints. Well, I guess she didn't get those

restraints off anytime soon. I'm wondering if this is going to culminate in a death penalty case, but what I'm thinking about right now, she's got to claim insanity at the time of the incident, but she's also claiming incompetency to stand trial. Francie Hakes, explain the difference in somebody claiming, I was insane at the time and or versus I'm incompetent to stand trial. Well, Nancy, competency to stand trial is just merely, do you understand the charges against you? And can you aid your lawyers in your own defense? That means now, whether you're on medication or whether your mental state is stabilized, can you help in your own defense? Insanity just means at the time you committed the crime, you could not appreciate right from wrong or could not control your impulses.

I think the most significant thing here, Nancy, in these new charges that you've mentioned is the assault on the public official. Because you and I both know that is kind of a penny ante charge. It may even be a misdemeanor. Why did the prosecutors include it in an indictment for capital murder where the charges are obviously incredibly serious? I suggest to you that it is in an attempt to refute the insanity defense. See, she's not insane and wasn't at the time of the crime. And look at what she did on purpose just two days later in jail. Well put. Again, I'm coming through the 911 call to see if I can glean any other evidence. And you've got to have your mind open.

Are we going to hear something that suggests that she is insane, that the defense is going to use? Does she say anything incriminating? You've got to listen. Jacob, Jacob, can you hear me? Where did she shoot the kids? In the head. And you have gone down there and kneeled against them and they're not breathing? Yes, they're going right down their heads. Okay. Okay. it's almost too upsetting for me to even listen to as you hear the husband crying into the 911 call and you hear sarah henderson just walking around little does he know at that juncture she just

tried to kill him she tried to fire a bullet into his head as he lay sleeping after she murders her two children we are learning now that this wasn't a spur of the moment act, that she had allegedly been planning to murder her children for two weeks. To Jason Ocean's veteran trial lawyer joining me out of New York, along with Dr. Brian Russell, host of Investigation Discoveries hit series, Fatal Vows, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor, and John Limley, investigative reporter, Crime Online. Jason, that is why I brought up earlier the fact that neighbors witnessed her screaming at her little girls all the time. That was the behavior. That's M.O. that's going to come in at trial, Jason.

I know you don't like that, but it is. That could run both ways relative to her sanity or insanity. I don't think it cuts in a particular way. And, you know, when that comes out in trial based on that, we'll see if the facts change. One thing I will point out is that most of the time when children are murdered by their parents, it is described as a crime of passion. Most of the time when children are murdered by their parents, that's sort of what's happened. It's not planned. The fact that you're alluding to the fact that it was planned or it's

been rumored of that fact, in many times can go towards what I'm saying is her actual sanity. What do you believe is the evidence, John Lindley, that she planned this for two weeks? This is what investigators announced after they had interrogated Sarah Henderson, that she had planned for at least two weeks to kill her children, though authorities have not provided further details to support this claim. She also, as we have stated, intended to kill her husband, quote, but the entire crime did not go as planned. You know, I'm curious about what they're going to bring forward, Francie Hakes, to show, A, that the gun malfunctioned when she tried to shoot her husband dead, and B, what was her planning process? How do we know she planned this for two weeks? Because

in the last hours, we learned she has been declared competent to stand trial. She can assist her lawyer in her defense. That is the definition of competency. Or you in a stupor. I mean, are you barking like a dog in court? Are you sitting there in a daze? That means you are incompetent. You can't help your defense lawyer. You've got to be competent to stand trial. Insanity at the time of the incident is a whole nother can of worms where you claim you didn't know right from wrong at the time of the incident is a whole other can of worms, where you claim you didn't know right from wrong at the time of the incident. But she's just been declared, Francie Hakes, competent. What does that mean?

Well, she's competent, Nancy. That means she can stand trial. She can be held responsible for the deaths of her children. And with respect to what kind of evidence is out there, I suspect you're going to hear that there's a combination. First, the interview with her, which we don't know what it said or what Sarah said during the interview, but that will be significant. But secondly, I bet the police have seized her mobile phone, possibly laptops or computers.

And like we've seen in other cases, like Casey Anthony, for example, she may very well have done research on this topic. And that may be why they feel like it was a planned crime, because there's some kind of research on how to get away with murder, how to shoot your children, best way to kill your children. Who knows what they will find, but I bet we'll see some of that coming in into evidence. That is a very good deduction. To Dr. Brian Russell, ID's Fatal Vows host, a neighbor, the same woman that said she always saw Sarah Henderson, heard her screaming at her children. Jaylene Palmer told NBC-DFW that the little girls would ride their bikes through her driveway, and the little girls were so sweet and loving that they would draw pictures for Jaylene and put them in the mailbox for Jaylene to find.

You know what, Dr. Brian? You've seen me dragging around with that horrible red backpack I've had for so long. It's stuffed with notes and scribblings and pictures that the twins have drawn over the years. And I find them stuffed in the kitchen drawer. I can't bear to throw them away because they remind me of when the twins were little bitty sweet babies and were drawing scribblings. And I just think about this neighbor, Jalyn Palmer, talking about how the two little girls would draw these pictures and leave them for her to find in her mailbox. And this mom shot them in the head. Well, you're making a very important point because most of us identify with exactly what you're saying about the parental and certainly the maternal instinct and feelings that you have towards your children. I think that's what most people expect of most mothers. How that can be a detriment in a case like this is that it does cause jurors sometimes to think, well, no mother would ever do something like this unless she was insane at the time.

And I'm here to tell you and everybody listening that that is not true. There are people out there so cold, so callous, so depraved and indifferent, even towards their own children, that their frustration, their anger, their inconvenience, whatever, of having those kids around to them outweighs any kind of attachment. They don't form any kind of attachment like you have with your kids. We are learning Kaylee, Danielle, seven years old, and Kenley, five, both shot in the middle of the night. I'm learning where police are getting some of their allegations. Now you heard the husband, Jacob Henderson, telling 911 dispatch she was asleep when I went to sleep last night. She comes in and says, babe, I just shot the kids. The mother of Kelly and Kenley reportedly tells Texas police she planned at least two weeks to kill her daughters and her husband.

She claims she was planning to shoot herself. That didn't happen. This is what we are learning about Sarah Henderson. We have no indication she had ever tried to commit suicide before. You hear her talking very plainly on the phone. We also know that she had smoked marijuana early in the evening, according to her. That doesn't change anything to Jason Ocean smoking a ton of pot, even if it's synthetic pot, laced with something else. That doesn't change anything to Jason Ocean smoking a ton of pot, even if it's synthetic pot, laced with something else. That doesn't negate that she planned this for two weeks.

Also, the voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is never a defense, Jason. Certainly no defense whatsoever, Nancy. It goes to her altered state and lack of parental responsibility and could further again her ability not to be, you know, beyond the competency and just not to be sane. From the background of examination and to how she handled the children beyond the screaming and yelling, it all could total up that there's a package of just a lack of sanity beyond the competency. Take a listen as friends of the family react. We thought we would come out and bring a stuffed animal and just show our support. There are angels. Nobody deserves that. How? How could you even do something like that? Sarah was my friend. I didn't see indications that she was, you know, crazy or suicidal or a killer or, you know,

I didn't see those. Yeah, she loved her kids, you know. I mean, they were tattooed on both legs, you know. I mean, she was a good mom. I mean, the kids were always fed. They were clean. They were always, like, respectful to everybody. That's Bridget Goals, Jackie Nelms, and Tina Cherami. As they look back, trying to make sense of the deaths of two little girls. It will all unfold in a Texas courtroom. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.