Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TEXAS TWIN AUSTIN METCALF STABBED DEAD AT HS TRACK MEET: FAMILY TURMOIL

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

Austin Metcalf's father says he hoped he could pray with the family of his son’s alleged killer, but ended up being escorted out of a press conference by police.  During a track meet between Memorial High School and Centennial High School in Frisco, Texas, light rain begins to fall, and athletes take cover under tents with their respective teams at Kuykendall Stadium. Memorial High School athlete Austin Metcalf finds Centennial High School athlete Karmelo Anthony under the Memorial High School tent and tells him he needs to move from under his team's tent. When Anthony refuses, words are exchanged, and Anthony tells Metcalf, "Touch me and see what happens." Centennial High School's Karmelo Anthony allegedly reaches inside his bag, grabs a knife, stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest, and runs away. As Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter, comes to his brother's aid, witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle school resource officer, who chases the suspect down. The school resource officer confronts Karmelo Anthony, telling him to put his hands up in the air. Anthony tells the officer, "I was protecting myself," claiming Metcalf "put his hands on" him. Anthony hears the officer say he has the "alleged stabbing suspect" in custody, and Anthony replies, "I'm not alleged. I did it." Anthony claims self-defense. Joining Nancy Grace today: Lisa Herrick -  Board-certified Juvenile Attorney, Partner at Varghese Summersett, and Former Juvenile Prosecutor; Instagram & X: versustexas, Facebook and Youtube: Varghese Summersett Dr. John Delatorre - Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok - @drjohndelatorre Barry Hutchison  - Former 26-year Law Enforcement Veteran and Detective, Owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services located in Kansas & Missouri Dr. Kendall Crowns  - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast [launching on April 14]; Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Katy Barber - Senior Digital Content Producer at My San Antonio See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. At a high school track meet, a track star from one team stabs a track star from another team, dead. In the last days, a press conference being held for the alleged killer degenerates into chaos and the victim, Austin Metcalfe's father, is thrown out. That's right. The victim's father is thrown out of the press conference. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The father of a teen boy stabbed dead at a track meet in Texas was just thrown out of a press conference. Jeff, was then attacked with shocking insults.

Insults from the defendant, the suspect's supporters. Austin Metcalfe's dad, Jeff, went to a press conference organized by supporters of a 17-year-old young man, the alleged killer Carmelo Anthony. Now, the dad, Austin Metcalf, had been standing with the press, was taken out of the venue when police were called to the Next Generation Action Network's headquarters there in Dallas. What sparked this turn of events? What do we know? Austin Metcalf is a 17-year-old straight-A student and football star at Frisco Memorial High School. But what is supposed to start out as an ordinary track meet ends in tragedy for the prodigious athlete.

Two twin brothers scrubbed in sunshine. One bleeds out dead in the arms of his twin brother. As we go to air tonight, what I perceive to be an outrageous defense. First of all, listen to this. And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the blood in, and he passed my son, watched his brother die in his arms. During a track meet between Memorial High School and Centennial High School in Frisco, Texas, a light rain begins to fall and athletes take cover under tents with their respective teams at Kukendall Stadium. Memorial High School athlete Austin Metcalf finds Centennial High School athlete Carmelo Anthony under the Memorial High School tent and tells him he needs to move from under his team's tent. When Anthony refuses, words are exchanged and Anthony tells Metcalf, touch me and see what happens. He first heard from the victim's father, that from our friends at Fox 4, joining us in an all-star panel to make sense of a senseless and brutal stabbing.

I cannot get the image out of my mind of this star athlete bleeding out dead as his twin brother tried to stop the bleeding, holding him in his arms. You know, I've been to plenty of high school track events. My son has been involved in track from the get-go, and I can't even imagine a fatal A fatal stabbing over a seat in a tent? Straight out to special guest joining us, Katie Barber, Senior Digital Content Producer at MySanAntonio.com. Katie, thank you for being with us. What do we believe happened that led up to the horrible stabbing death of this young star athlete, literally scrubbed in sunshine. And why did the suspect have a knife at a track meet?

It's really not clear why he had a knife at the track meet on April 2nd, but unfortunately he did. One witness told police that they were sitting with Metcalf under their school tent when someone they didn't know, now identified as Carmelo Anthony, came over to them. And he is allegedly grabbed the bag when he was confronted and reached inside and said, touch me and see what happens. OK, well, wait, hold on. Katie Barber joining me from my San Antonio dot com. Who said what? Who sat down where? Who said what? And who said, touch me from mysanantonio.com. Who said what? Who sat down where? Who said what?

And who said, touch me and see what happens? Give me proper names. One witness told an officer that they were sitting with Metcalf under the school's tent when Carmelo Anthony came over to them while they were in the tent. The witness said Metcalf told Anthony to leave the tent. And when he did that, Anthony grabbed his bag, opened it, reached inside and said, touch me and see what happens. And then police said in their doctor that no one believed that he had a weapon at the time. Well, somebody had a weapon because Austin is stabbed dead. To Lisa Herrick joining us, veteran juvenile attorney, partner at Vargie Somerset. Former, this is important, former juvenile prosecutor.

Lisa, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Nancy. That's enough time to form premeditation right there. Now, I know that you defend juveniles after having been a juvenile prosecutor, but the reality is under the black and white letter of the law. Okay. Premeditation, the intent to kill or the intent to, to commit any act can be formed in the blink of an eye,

the twinkling of a moment, the time it takes you to raise the gun and pull the trigger. The law does not require a long drawn out period for a premeditation or planning. Mens rea, malice of forethought, for instance, a long drawn out period of poisoning someone every single day, just a tiny bit of arsenic, and then they die. It can be formed just like that. Why do I care? Because premeditation or malice of forethought, mens rea, is a key factor, the critical ingredient in a murder one prosecution, isn't it? Absolutely. Intent is one of the main elements of a murder or an assault, an aggravated assault

with a deadly weapon that turns into a murder. Because in Texas, we have a number of different ways that murder can be committed or the language for murder can be alleged, one of which can be that you intend for a person to die. But another can be that your actions, your intentional or knowing actions are such that you would know that a person would die. So stabbing someone in the heart, you would would know that a person would die. So stabbing someone in the heart, you would certainly know that a person would die if you stab someone in the heart. And that knowledge or that intent, like you said, can be formed in justice. Lisa Herrick, joining me, a veteran trial lawyer.

Lisa, you're absolutely correct. And I've got a great example because when I speak to juries very often or really anybody, and I can't tell, I can't state that this was my idea. I got it from someone in the New Testament. Um, I like to give examples, okay. Stories. For instance, if I take a gun and point it right over at my executive producer right here, Jackie, and pull the trigger and then say, oh, I just meant to scare her. I didn't mean to kill her. The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.

You don't have to say, I will now kill you. Bam. The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act. So when you take the time to go to your duffel bag, your athletic bag, unzip it, get out a knife and then stab someone. And then we have the previous threat. Touch me, touch me and see what's going to happen. All of that adds together to make a premeditated murder case. Now you've not only prosecuted juvenile cases, felonies, which is a whole

nother animal prosecuting in juvenile court, GV court versus big court. Uh, what's your defense in this case, Lisa? What would your defense possibly be? Is it true that a stand your ground defense is brewing? How can that percolate? That didn't happen. A stand your ground defense is hard in this fact situation because a stand your ground law presumes that the victim is somewhere that they are not supposed to be, right? You're defending your space when stand your ground law applies. And certainly Austin was in a place where he was allowed to be. Now, I think Carmelo probably was allowed to be where he was as well. It's a public place, but in order to claim stand your ground and in order to use that as your defense,

you have to be defending your space. And so I know Carmelo saying that Austin put hands on him, but deadly force is self-defense theory that is supposed to be used. Deadly force meets deadly force. Self-defense is not a legal mechanism. Lisa, again, you're absolutely correct regarding the letter of the law. I like to use this example. You can't slap me and then I shoot you down with an Uzi. OK, it's for instance, I can't battle back against your fly swatter with a machine gun. So you said it.

Deadly force equals deadly force. But here, isn't it true that Austin Metcalf was unarmed? So to introduce a deadly weapon, that's deadly force versus no force. Correct. And even more so, self-defense without a deadly weapon, regular self-defense is not a justifiable defense to use against words alone. The law says that words are not sufficient provocation to use self-defense. Listen to this, everybody. I was able to see my son on the gurney with a huge hole in blood all over him and they were pumping him. He wasn't breathing and his eyes were rolled back in his head. Centennial High School's Carmelo Anthony reaches inside his bag, grabs a knife and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest

underneath the Memorial High School pop-up tent and then he runs away. As Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter, comes to his brother's aid, witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle school resource officer who chases the suspect down. At first you were hearing Austin's father speaking to our friends at Fox for the family. Devastated. I cannot even imagine what it would be like for the father to see this, much less the twin brother holding Austin in his arms trying to stop the blood. I wouldn't have understood it if I didn't have twins of my own. They're practically joined at the hip and mine are boy girl, much less boy, boy or girl, girl that play all their sports together, that do everything together. Having your twin bleed out dead in your arms?

Let me go straight out to a special guest joining us. Also, like Lisa Herrick, joining us from this jurisdiction, Dr. Kimball Crowns with us, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Never like a business in that morgue. Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Texas Christian University, and launching a brand new podcast, Make Him in the Morgue, April 14. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I know you've studied the case very carefully.

Was there a way his twin brother could have saved Austin? No, there wouldn't have been because the stab wound was in the heart, unless he could be gotten to an emergency room like immediately. And they may have been able to save him, but more likely than not, he was going to die anyway. That type of injury to the heart, there's just really no coming back unless you're basically in the OR when you get stabbed. Explain why. Because it's your heart. It's, you know, it's all your blood's coming through there. It's all being pumped out. And then when you have now a hole in your heart, it's bleeding into your chest cavity and you have to close that hole up in the heart. So you'd have to crack the chest open, get in there and try and fix the heart. And there's just so much blood loss because of the size of the hole. It's near impossible to

save that individual. And just putting pressure on it at the scene, all that's going to create is they're just going to bleed into their chest cavity. I'm just thinking about what you're saying, Dr. Kendall-Crowns, because Katie Barber, was Austin stabbed in the heart? The arrest document states he was stabbed in the chest. So interesting. I wonder how close to the heart he was stabbed. So, OK, Dr. Kendall-Crowns, let's digest that. Not stabbed in the heart, stabbed in the chest. Does that make a difference in your analysis? So it depends on where exactly in the chest. You go up, if you're kind of in the midline or to the left, that's going to be the heart.

You go up a little higher, it's the aorta, which is the main vessel coming off the heart. You're going to bleed out again in just a matter of minutes from that as well. There's no saving them at the scene. You go to a little to the side one way or another. You've punctured the chest, punctured the lung, and that'll cause a collapsed lung. That causes a lot of hemorrhage. That one, you may be able to save the person if you can get them to the hospital fast enough. But from all the information I've seen, it doesn't sound like he got stabbed in the chest,

in the area of a lung. It's more probably centralized hitting him in the heart. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The teen boy, Austin Metcalf's twin brother, held his brother in his arms, trying to staunch the flow of blood as Austin died. But nothing could save the victim track star. And now the victim's family being targeted. The defendant's family has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars on various platforms online, now over $500,000 for the defendant, the alleged stabber's defense. What that money is being used on is up in the air. But I know this. I know the victim's mother and father, Austin's mother and father, have both been swatted in their homes. Fake calls

being made to police that someone in the home has been shot. So police swarm the home, regardless of the time of day or night, under the fear someone may have been killed in the home. It's not the law enforcement's fault. They're doing their jobs. The victim's mom and dad are separated. They live separately, both of them being swatting victims. I mean, haven't they suffered enough for Pete's sake? What do we know about the day that Austin is stabbed dead? You're saying there's no way twin brother Hunter could have saved Austin because even if Hunter could have pushed down where Austin was bleeding, and so it would look like to the naked eye that he had stopped the bleeding, the bleeding would still be happening underneath the skin and the blood would then be pumping straight into the lungs.

So he would die on his own blood in his lungs. I mean, there was no way he could have saved him are you sure do you feel confident in that yes i feel very confident in that uh if he puts his hand on his chest and he continues bleeding into his chest cavity it's going to fill up his chest cavity and it's going to make it hard for him to bleed breathe and he'll basically die from lack of oxygen. That actually takes longer. From the descriptions I've read from the scene, he kind of dies in a matter of minutes. To me, that sounds like a major vessel was hit where the heart and he was going to die no matter what was done. 17-year-old Austin Metcalf is being held by his twin brother, Hunter, who is trying to

stop the bleeding after 17-year-old Carmelo Anthony allegedly stabs Austin in the chest, piercing his heart. First responders arrive and take over treatment of Austin as officers round up eyewitnesses to the event to find out what happened. Hunter Metcalf is so distraught he can barely speak to police, but officers locate about two dozen student athletes and four coaches who witness the stabbing and begin taking statements. How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice.

For an in-depth look at the facts, see What Happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Witnesses report a squabble over seating at a track meet tent resulting in the fatal stabbing of football star Austin Metcalf. The suspect, a fellow 17-year-old student athlete. Listen to Austin's brother. First I froze for half a second. I didn't know what to do.

And then I saw him about to fall. I went to go's brother. First I froze for half a second. I didn't know what to do. And then I saw him about to fall. I went to go over there. I grabbed him. I see him. The mother, Megan Metcalf, in so much pain, she can't even stand to hear

the brother Hunter describe what happened. That is from our friends at the Will Cain Show over on Fox. Joining me, an all-star panel to Katie Barber, joining me from mysanantonio.com. Katie, explain to me the logistics of what Hunter, the twin brother, just said. Where was he? What did he observe? And what, if anything, did he do when he saw his brother stabbed? I don't know if he saw the actual stabbing or saw his brother gushing blood. I'm not sure. Please explain. Yeah. When police arrived, they immediately, they said they could see blood on and around him. They coordinated with officers to secure the area. He said that he whipped around in another interview.

He said he didn't see the stabbing take place, but he was turning around quickly and saw the aftermath and held him in his arms after the stabbing, but did not see it take place. He said that in an interview after the event. He says at first he froze for just a moment and didn't know what to do. Then he actually saw Brother Austin fall and ran to him and grabbed him and tried to stop the flow of blood. Joining me, Dr. John Delatore, psychologist, psychologist mediator specializing in forensic psychology Dr. Delatore thank you for being with us what is that human reaction when you freeze for just one moment well it's a trauma response number one it's the idea that what you're seeing your brain can't interpret immediately. It's seeing, it's witnessing everything that's

happening, but it's such a difficult thing for your brain to interpret because of the trauma associated with it. He's seeing his brother get stabbed. He's seeing the blood, right? He's seeing all of this stuff, but his body isn't recognizing what it needs to do because it doesn't know what it needs to do because it's never seen anything like this before. And so he's trying to catch up with what his eyes are looking at. And because it's his brother and because of the connection these two have, it becomes that much more difficult. Now, once he does catch up, he's able to catch his brother. He's able to do what he can, but he's not a doctor. He's not a paramedic. He's not an EMT. That's his brother. And the trauma of all of this unfolding

is also impairing his ability to do what it needs to do, call the police, call for other people, right? A lot of the witnesses have to do those kinds of things because Hunter is so focused on trying to save his brother. A school resource officer first to the scene. Take a listen to what the suspect says. A school resource officer is first on the scene and confronts Carmelo Anthony, telling the suspect to put his hands up in the air. Anthony tells the officer, I was protecting myself, claiming Metcalf, quote, put his hands on him. Anthony hears the officer saying he has the alleged stabbing suspect in custody. And Anthony replies, I'm not alleged. I did it. Wow. I'm not alleged. I did it.

Joining me now, in addition to our other guests, Barry Hutchinson, renowned law enforcement vet of 26 years, detective and now chief operator of Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Barry, thank you for being with us. Did you hear what the suspect said? Keeping in mind that at this juncture, the suspect is innocent until proven guilty. But very earlier, we heard that there are about two dozen witnesses. This is a high school track meet for Pete's sake. That said, did you hear what the suspect said? And I quote, I was protecting myself that Austin, quote, put his hands on me. And that would be suspect Carmelo Anthony.

Austin put his hands on Carmelo Anthony. According to Anthony, Anthony hears the school resource officer say he has the alleged stabbing suspect and responds, I'm not alleged. I did it. Yeah, that's a pretty damning utterance from an evidentiary value and you know it he pretty much admitted to the crime by making that statement okay Barry Barry I know that I just read you what he said I'm asking you what the state is going to do to prove that and what the defense is going to do to try to get away from it. Well, the witnesses are going to contradict

what he says anyway. And, you know, there's 12 of those folks apparently or more, and they're going to make a statement that contradicts what he says. It's pretty much going to outweigh what he says. The state's going to move forward with prosecution from that point. His defense is going to be that it's, you know, what he said originally, that it was self-defense, that he, you know, was in fear of his life, which it's going to be awful hard to substantiate that, as you addressed earlier, without the threat of equal violence to substantiate him using deadly force. Lisa Herrick joining me, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction. Lisa, explain again, in a nutshell, what is now emerging as the defense.

And you know what? I haven't even gotten to these sick conspiracy theories that are multiplying, promulgating online. We'll get to that in a moment. But I pray that Austin's parents have not seen what is being said online. It's total BS, technical legal term. But Lisa, in a nutshell, in regular people talk, do not throw a Latin phrase at me, Lisa Herrick, and I know that you can. Stand your ground. How in the hay is that going to apply here? We normally think of it as, let's just say, somebody tries to break in your house. You don't have to run. You can shoot them

right then and there if you're so disposed. Standing your ground. You're in a place you're supposed to be. You have authority to be there and no one can make you leave. Now explain how that's going to work in a high school track tent. Right. Stand your ground. We commonly use the phrase no duty to retreat. So some places will, like some jurisdictions, will require that you attempt to remove yourself from the danger. That's not the case in Texas. In Texas, if you're presented with a threat, with a danger, you have the right to defend yourself and stand your ground means you don't have to try to leave the danger first. Well, I'm reading the supplemental arrest report and the narrative is written by Officer Eduardo

Cortez. Cortez states, suspect was on the track at the north end. There was a chain link that separated Officer Cortez from the suspect. Cortez gives the suspect instructions to keep his hands in the air. And at this time, suspect verbally said out loud, and this is considered a voluntary statement, quote, I was protecting myself. Cortez goes on to note he had not questioned the suspect about the incident, but suspect blurted that out. Then stated while walking him off the track, suspect states, quote, he put his hands on me. Katie Barber joining me, senior digital content producer at mysanantonio.com. Katie, my understanding from having read the police reports and the witness statements is that the suspect goes under the other side's tent, right?

The other school's tent. At that point, Austin says, this isn't your tent. Get out of here. At that point, at that point, what does the suspect do? Police says that when he's told to move out of the tent, that he grabbed his bag, opened it and reached inside. And this is when he tells Austin, touch me and see what happens. According to police. So naturally Austin touched him.

Yeah, exactly. Police say that he proceeded to touch Carmelo, and then Carmelo then postures and tells Anthony and tells Austin to punch him and see what happens. A short time later, police don't say how long. To your understanding, Katie Barber, were any punches thrown? Did Austin ever hit the suspect? Hit? It doesn't say. It says he grabbed Anthony after that threat to tell him to move. But it doesn't. But police do not say. Witnesses did not tell police that he was punched.

But when he was grabbed by Austin is when he pulled out the knife and stabbed him once in the chest, is what police say. A witness reported. A police escort Carmelo Anthony to a squad car. Anthony says, he put his hands on me. I told him not to. Anthony also asks officers if the victim was going to be okay and if what happened could be considered self-defense. Officers take evidence photos showing blood on Anthony's hands, but don't find the knife on him. How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it

a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in-depth look at the facts, see What Happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. How does a teen boy, a twin star athlete in Texas, end up stabbed dead at a track meet of all places? Listen to Austin's dad. Great hunting trip with me, him, and Austin. And he said, I'm going to come over and see you this weekend. I said, okay, I look forward to it. He said, I love you, Dad.

I said, I love you, too, son. Those were the last words I ever heard from him. The father and the twin speaking to our friends at Dallas Morning News. What about the blood evidence in this case? With conflicting witness reports, with the suspect claiming self-defense and stand your ground, although no punches were seen thrown, that blood evidence becomes critical. Remember, it was raining. The track meet is outside. Listen.

As law enforcement and paramedics arrive on scene, the rain is falling harder. One officer moves the memorial tent over the victim and medics trying to save his life. And finding the bloody knife in the stands quickly takes photos of it before the rain could wash away all the blood. A blue tarp is used to cover the knife in an effort to preserve the evidence. And because it was so windy, the officer uses a nearby backpack to weigh down the tarp he doesn't realize at the time the backpack belongs to suspect carmelo anthony photo no juries don't want just a photo they want dna deoxyribonucleic acid straight out to renowned medical examiner dr Dr. Kendall Crowns,

joining us from this jurisdiction of Texas. Dr. Kendall Crowns, what we believe to be the murder weapon, a knife covered in blood, had been thrown or obscured, let me just say euphemistically, and it was pouring rain. What's the likelihood that we can get DNA off that knife? Because the state needs the suspect's DNA and the victim's

DNA off that knife. Well, they should probably still be able to get DNA from it unless it was scrubbed clean with a cleanser or a soap of something of that nature. There's probably still enough DNA on the handle and on the knife itself to be able to get a good DNA sample. Also, you have to figure because of the contact between the two boys, there's probably a way of getting DNA from the victim as well. Katie Barber, where exactly was the knife discovered? It was discovered in the bleachers on the north side of the stadium, which is where. Well, how the hay did he get in the bleachers, Katie? He ran off after the stabbing. It didn't quite say a total direction, but he did run off.

And it's presumed that he threw the knife when he ran off because he didn't have the weapon on him when he was detained. Wait a minute right there, Katie Barber, mysanantonio.com, to Dr. John Delatore. If someone attacked me and I fought back, I wouldn't take off running and then hide the weapon. Yeah, you wouldn't. But here's the thing is that if Anthony saw a bunch of other people, dozens of other people that were also around and in that tent, he might have felt overwhelmed. He might have felt scared. He could have done all of these things just as a matter of panic. So he runs off knowing that he shouldn't have stabbed this person, but he did it anyway.

He throws a knife away. He takes off thinking that he's going to get very far. There's all kinds of things that could be happening because it does not appear as though he intended to go to that track meet with the specific purpose to kill Austin Metcalf. It does seem like things were going on underneath that tent that neither one of these two boys were prepared for. And both are now suffering the consequences with Austin having lost his life for some kind of nonsense. Lisa Herrick, you see where this is going. The state is going to argue to a jury. He ran off and disposed of the weapon because he knew what he did was wrong and then immediately began forming a defense in his mind and even asked law enforcement, hey, could that be self-defense?

You think that's self-defense? There are a couple of things that cut in favor of the self-defense argument, and those are that he did run away if he was scared. And he, so he stabs Austin. Scared? Isn't he the one that said, touch me and find out? So he stabs Austin. Scared? Isn't he the one that said, touch me and find out? Isn't he the one that said, go on, punch me.

Just see what happens. That doesn't sound scared to me. I don't disagree with you. But getting into his mind for a moment and the argument that the defense is going to make, right? They have to come up with something. Why do I have to get in his mind? So if he'll say, I was scared. I stabbed him. I felt like the danger was subdued enough that I could now safely escape. Then I can see how running away would cut in

favor of self-defense. I can see what you're saying, how running away is a sign of guilt. You just said, have you ever heard the phrase word salad? Because I just heard one. Okay, wait a minute. What did you say about the threat was subdued? You mean he stabbed Austin in the chest? Is that what you're talking about? So if the threat is subdued, why run then? Because there were plenty of other people around who were potentially new dangers, right? People who saw him stab Austin.

No, I don't know what you're saying. You're making that up like a good defense attorney. What other people presented a danger? Nobody. What is, are you serious? Well, I mean. So he stabs Austin dead and then he what is in danger of what? Retribution.

People who want to hurt him now that Carmelo hurt their friend. Was able to see my son on the gurney with a huge hole in blood all over him, and they were pumping him. He wasn't breathing, and his eyes were rolled back in his head. From our friends at Fox 4. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The alleged killer, Carmelo Anthony, walks free from jail after a controversial decision by a judge to lower his bond on charges he stabbed and killed Austin Metcalfe, who was unarmed at the time he was stabbed. What more do we know? No one saw punches being thrown, nothing like that. The suspect and

the victim had never even met, according to sources. Listen. And then I whipped my head around and then all of a sudden I see him running down the bleach, just grabbing his chest. He just bought a Russian out. He said, yeah, he got stabbed. There you see Austin's brother Hunter speaking out from our friends at the Will Cain show on Fox. Why ask why? How many times has that been said in a courtroom? A million. But as you all know, the state is never required to show motive. Teens kill for apparently no reason at all. Listen. High school Spanish teacher Noe McGraber is known for enjoying an afternoon walk at a park in Fairfield, Iowa. When she turns up missing, retracing her steps begins in the park.

The body was found covered by a tarp, wheelbarrow, and railroad ties, and she suffered head trauma. Cops don't have to look much further than incriminating social media posts of two 16-year-old students, Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller, from the school where Graber teaches.

One of the high schoolers thought they might get a bad grade. And so two of them go and murder the teacher. Yes. So a murder over what? A C minus? Then there is another star student, all A's, that commits murder. Derek Rosa.

I need to know if your mom is breathing. She said, miss, I have the gun with me. I was going to shoot myself, but I didn't want to. I have more family members. They can take care of my sister. I took pictures and I told my friends about it. Was that bad? That is teen boy, Derek Rosa. We still don't know any motive as to why he killed his mother and then sent the photo of her sleeping in bed now dead to friends. Then asking, was that bad that I killed her and sent photos to friends? So a teen kills for what motive? None. And there's more. Tristan Bailey, last seen wearing her cheerleader uniform when missing on Mother's Day in Jacksonville, Florida. Surveillance video shows her at 1.15 a.m. She's walking with a 14-year-old classmate, Aiden Fucci.

When police pick up Fucci for questioning, he posts a photo of himself in the back of a police car giving the V sign with the caption, hey guys, has anybody seen Tristan lately? He also posted a Snapchat video, having fun in a beep cop car. Tristan's body is discovered in a secluded wooded area. She's been stabbed 114 times. This little girl was not raped, was not assaulted. There was no robbery. So what was the motive? Apparently, none and more. Jay Williams is 15 years old the day he and 16-year-old Randy Thompson lure a fellow classmate, Michael Russell, to his own home where they stab him multiple times in the chest, back, and neck.

Russell's mother returns home from running errands and finds his lifeless body in the backyard. Williams and Thompson say they wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone. Lisa Herrick joining us, a veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction of Texas. So, number one, for Austin, even if this did happen, to have touched the suspect on the shoulder and said, get out of our tent, that is not going to justify under self-defense a deadly attack with a knife. And as far as motive, you just heard all of those similar cases where teens kill. They don't really have a motive. The state doesn't have to prove motive, do they? The state does not have to prove motive. And that's mainly because it is nearly impossible to get into the mind of a charged defendant unless they tell you what they were thinking.

In this case, we know that Carmelo is going to claim self-defense, but we don't know what he was actually thinking. And so the state wouldn't be able to prove a motive without knowing what he was actually thinking. How could a beautiful young first grade teacher be stabbed 20 times, including in the back, allegedly die of suicide? Yes, that was the medical examiner's official ruling. After a closed door meeting, he first named it a homicide. Why? What happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For an in-depth look at the facts, see What Happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Teen boy Austin Metcalf stabbed dead at a high school track meet. Apparently no justification for the stabbing, but at this hour, evil, sick conspiracy theories are promulgating online, including a fake autopsy report, Katie? Yes, the fake autopsy report that has been, police have warned about, police have issued multiple warnings publicly on their social media channels about false statements from the police chief that have not come from him, as well as this medical report that shows the primary cause of death being a drug overdose, with the secondary cause of death being a stab wound. Police have said that that report has not been released.

So any sort of images purporting to be the autopsy report are not true. Texas police, as we go to air, warning about misinformation being promulgated online. They are also warning people, Katie Barber, not to disseminate the false theories under threat of what? Hampering or hindering a police investigation? Yes. And they've also said that people who are pretending to be officials, like propagating this information, could also be charged with a third degree felony of impersonating a public servant. So there are charges at play and they are investigating with the FBI into these matters. sick person would create a fake autopsy report suggesting that this boy, a star athlete, died of a drug overdose. But obviously it's someone that is siding with the suspect and trying to tarnish the

reputation of a young boy, a young boy with all A's, star athlete, and beloved twin. Speaking of twin, listen to his brother, Hunter. We were just one person. We did everything the same. We were just exactly alike. We had a couple of differences, but most of the stuff we did together, the stuff we had, we felt was one person. So we just connected so well in everything we did. At a press conference for the alleged killer, Carmelo Anthony, the father of the victim, Austin Metcalf, is led out of the press conference. Chaos surrounds this case. But at the heart of the case, a teen boy has been stabbed. Is there a defense? We don't know yet. This must play out in a court of law.

We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.