Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Texas woman LIVES IN FEAR after Judge LETS VIOLENT STALKER WALK FREE

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

21-year-old Julian Chavez repeatedly violates not only bond conditions but a restraining order filed by a 20-year-old woman. Chavez stalked the woman and broke into her home, yet still bonded out of jail. While Chavez is out on bond, he was convicted of four misdemeanors, yet remained free and in possession of a handgun. Reports say the District Attorney's Office asked 232nd Criminal District Court Judge Josh Hill to revoke Chavez's bond and deny bail for the latest charge. Instead, bond was set at  $100,000.     Joining Nancy Grace Today: Nicole Deborde Hochglaube  - Criminal Defense Lawyer (Houston TX), Former Prosecutor, Twitter: @debordelaw, HoustonCriminalDefense.com Chau Nguyen - Licensed Trauma Therapist (Houston, TX), JEM Wellness and Counseling, JEMWellnessCenter.com, Facebook: "Chau Nguyen", Twitter: @chauhtx, Instagram: @chaunguyenhouston Mike Hermann - Private Investigator (California), www.hermanninvestigations.com, Former Police Lieutenant, Contract Court Investigator focusing on Guardianships, Parental Rights Terminations, and Conservatorships, Co-Founder of non-profit organization "PTSD Brotherhood, Inc.", Co-Host: "PTSD Brothers: Brotherhood of Service Podcast", PTSDBrotherhood.org Andy Kahan - Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston, Crime-Stoppers.org, Facebook: "Andy Kahan and Crime Stoppers of Houston", Twitter: @AKahanCrimeSto1, Instagram: @AndyVictimAdvocate  Randy Wallace - News Reporter, FOX 26 Houston   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Why do we keep having Domestic Violence Awareness Month? We've been having it for years. Why do we keep doing that and then never actually do anything about it. Why are women being murdered every day at the hands of their quote intimate partner? Very often the perpetrators having a rap sheet as long as my arm. Why are these guys and sorry guys but it typically the man, sometimes the female is the aggressor, why do they keep getting right back out from behind bars? I covered the case of Kiara Hudson.

She even had videos of her being beaten by the perp, Adam Benefield. He then tracks her down on the way to dropping the children off at school. She's so afraid she's wearing a bulletproof vest. He rams into her car, comes out with a shotgun, and shoots her dead with the children in the back seat. He had so many convictions under his belt. Why was he walking free? Well, guess what? It's happened again. So Congress, you can take your domestic awareness label and put it where the sun don't shine. And I'm saying that nicely in a loving and caring way, until you do something about it.

Don't give me a proclamation that you're naming a month after it if you're going to allow the violence to continue on women and mothers all across this country. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Julian Chavez. May he rot in hell.

You know where I'm going with this. Take a listen to our friend Randy Wallace at Fox 26. Here's a breaking bond first. Chavez actually did time in jail and was convicted of four misdemeanors while still on bond for the felony charges he did time in the county jail four times while on bond and yet was still allowed to remain on bond and still allowed to be put back in the community to make her life a living hell. Chavez was recently charged with violating a protective order, a felony. He was found in possession of a 9mm Glock handgun.

It's documented. October, Domestic Violence Awareness Month. But judges don't seem to know anything about that. And they are perpetrating a very dangerous trend of letting violent offenders back out, revolving doors. They barely have time for the ink to dry on the perp's fingerprints before they get out. And where do they go first? To go stalk and harass and murder the original female victim. I mean, I got a question for you. Joining me, special guest Chow Nguyen. Now, I want you to know how that's spelled. C-H-A-U, last name N-G-U-Y-E-N. I usually don't do that, but I want you to be able to find her online on Facebook, Chow Nguyen, on Twitter, at Chow TX, Insta, at Chow Nguyen Houston.

She's a licensed trauma therapist. Chow, just the rhetorical question, but just humor me. Why do we even have Domestic Violence Awareness Month? It's total BS. We keep screaming from the top of our roof to protect survivors. And what they want to do are two things, Nancy. They want to heal from their wounds and they want accountability. And the systems that are meant to protect survivors fail them when perpetrators get out of jail time after time.

I mean, can you imagine the abject fear this woman is living in, thinking that her perpetrator or abuser is going to jail, but he keeps getting out. That affects your trauma response for a lifetime. You know what? I hear you, Chowin, and I want her to get emotionally and mentally well, but I can't do that if she's dead. And seemingly, that's okay with this judge that keeps letting Julian Chavez out. This Houston, Texas judge. Take a listen to more from our friend Randy Wallace,

Fox 26. Based on court documents, 21-year-old Julian Chavez will not abide by his bond conditions, but he will keep getting new criminal charges. They keep releasing this guy and he keeps harassing, stalking, breaking into her home. Almost all of the misdemeanor and felony charges filed against Chavez involve the same woman. The charges include stalking and harassment. How could you put any faith in our system when you keep releasing this guy over and over again and he keeps repeating the same crimes over and over again guys he's not the only horse's ass in this scenario julian chavez is out roaming the streets we've got a judge to deal with take a listen to more from randy wallace the da's office asked 232nd Criminal District Court Judge

Josh Hill to revoke Chavez's bond and deny bail for the latest charge. Instead, Judge Josh Hill set Chavez's bond at $100,000. Chavez is now a free man. She filed a protective order. A protective order is supposed to protect victims from their perpetrators not leave them in fear of their lives who and the h e double l is this horse's rear end judge josh hill i'll tell you he is an experienced criminal defense lawyer think it let that in. So you're a woman who has been stalked and harassed and tortured and you're in front of a judge whose only history is of criminal defense, defending

the perpetrator. And let's just get real. Nicole DeBoer at Hodge Club is with me, renowned criminal defense attorney out of Houston, former prosecutor at HoustonCriminalDefense.com or Twitter DeBoer-Law. Nicole, can we just get real for a moment when we hear bond is set at $100,000? Well, that is misleading because all the purpose to put up at most is 10% of that. Well, that's true, but I have to say there are quite a few things here that are a little bit not quite correct. And one thing that I think is worth pointing out is that this particular judge is well-respected by the district attorney's office and by the defense bar because he is a

former prosecutor as well as a defense lawyer. Oh, then that means he should know better. Well, in Texas, the law requires that the prosecutor make a motion and the law also requires that the judge give a hearing. This judge has set a hearing as required by law in this particular case. His hands are tied. So are you telling me that he cannot overrule what a prosecutor offers? The prosecutor in this case has offered nothing. They have only filed a motion. The law requires that they put on evidence in a hearing.

That has not occurred. So how did he get a bond set without a hearing? Because he is absolutely required by the Constitution in the state of Texas and the law to give a bond. If the prosecution wants no bond, they have to have this hearing and present evidence. Then why did the judge set the bond so low? This bond for this type of crime is 10 times what it normally is in this jurisdiction for this type of case. With a guy with this history? You know what?

Let's talk about the history. Joining me, Andy Kahn, Director of Victim Services and Advocacy, Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy, this guy has a rap sheet as long as my arm. And the judge and the prosecutor, Nicole is right about that, they both have the rap sheet. They can see what this guy, Julian Chavez, has been doing. Yet the judge, in my opinion, gives a low bond. He has violated his GPS conditions repeatedly. He's been charged with umpteenth amount of crimes while out on multiple bonds.

I'm just going to read from the notes that are presented to the magistrate. There are no bond conditions that will protect this complainant. The defendant continues to threaten, harass, and stalk her. Even if you had to grant a bond, you could have made it astronomically high to send a message. You could have said half a million dollars. You could have easily have done that. And let's keep in mind, his bond had actually been forfeited on the felonies three times because he didn't show up in court. And then they reinstated his bond. Likeandy and i have said in the story that we did this guy was actually convicted of four offenses and sentenced to time served in a county jail

four different times and yet still allowed to remain on felony bond yeah i get it there's a hearing set but in the meantime he's been out okay so wait wait let me understand the hearing that nicole debord hotch globe was demanding has actually been set but instead of letting the defendant sit there for the hearing or move the hearing up the judge gave a low bond 10 000 is a low bond when you are a repeat offender. And number one, so the hearing was set, Andy Kahn, based on what you're telling me. And number two, what notes are you talking about? Notes to what magistrate?

Notes when he was taken into custody several times specifically state that no bond conditions will protect this 20-year-old victim who's been repeatedly stalked, harassed, has had her home broken into. He is violated every time there's been a protective order. He's removed and taken off his GPS. I don't know what makes you think by releasing him, he's going to abide by any condition you and i both know these are the cases that will eventually end up on the 10 o'clock news as someone ends up pacing paying the price and then we all shrug our shoulders and feign outrage we have a chance to be proactive in this particular case because the defendant has repeatedly said, I'm not going to buy by anything you give me. So let's cut this out, put them back in custody, and then you can

determine what happens from here. But in the meantime, give this 20-year-old young lady some peace of mind and restore her faith in the justice system. Before she ends up as another homicide statistic. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Randy Wallace joining me. You've heard his awesome reporting. Joining us from Fox 26 in Houston. Randy, tell me the whole thing. Start at the beginning. Well, the one thing that I do want to point out is that Josh, Judge Josh Hill, he has kind of a history of doing this. He's one of several judges that have released repeat violent offenders out on multiple bonds, and then they go on to allegedly commit a murder and i mean we andy and i have seen many times where especially in these domestic violent situations where the perpetrator just goes on until they eventually kill the woman and i mean

it's totally preventable if you just put these people back in jail for violating conditions of their bond. Hey, hey, Randy. Randy Wallace joining us from Fox 26. So I can hear all that Nicole has to say about him being a former prosecutor and longtime defense attorney and how well respected he is. Really? because here he is in the headlines judge answering questions about suspects bonds and that's uh six months ago eight months ago and it goes on and on and on even the newspapers are writing about his low bonds and how these people get out and commit murder. How did the whole thing start, Randy Wallace?

Well, it all started, I guess, around 2019. It was Andy Kahn who sort of noticed this pattern where these people were out on multiple bonds. And when he first brought it to my attention, I was like, no, Andy, that's not possible. You can't have six, seven, eight felony bonds. Well, obviously it was true. And we're up to, I think, 183 Harris County residents who were killed, allegedly at the hands of a repeat violent offender who's free from jail on multiple felony bonds. I've never seen anything like it in the three decades that I've been reporting for Fox 26 here in Houston. Here's another headline where

this judge, what's his name again, Randy Wallace? Josh Hill? Josh Hill? Yes. Okay. According to court records, October 19, a defendant named Tatum charged with murder. On a murder, his bond said at $50,000, which means basically he has to put up his mother's house. That means $5,000 bond. He made a bond a few days later, and while out on bond for that murder, he's charged with ag assault with a deadly weapon. So long story short, here's a guy denied bond finally on an accused murder, and he was actually out on bond for another murder, and then there's an ag assault in there somewhere. So he's out on bond for murder.

He commits another murder. That was all the way back at starting in 2019. And now the same judge has let Julian Chavez out. Randy Wallace, explain to me the degree of stalking and harassment on this 20-year-old female. Well, I think Andy hit it on the head when he was reading from the court document that basically, and it's true, there's no bond conditions that will protect this woman.

He repeatedly, repeatedly violated the terms of his bond. There, there were a lot of times when he either didn't have on the, the tracking device or the battery was dead. That's something else too. I think what really upsets me the most anymore is that, you know, they put these people on monitoring devices. Well, half the time the defendant doesn't bother to actually get it or they don't wear it. We've done many stories where the defendant is wearing an electronic monitoring device

when they're committing another crime. To Mike Herman joining me, private investigator, you can find him at Herman Investigations. That's Herman with two N's on the end. HermanInvestigations.com, former lieutenant author. Mike Herman, he was found. Now, this is while he's out on bond, a low bond set by Judge Josh Hill, who has a terrible reputation of letting people out on bond that shouldn't be out on bond.

While he's out on bond, he's in possession of a Glock 9. Explain what is the Glock 9 and why it's so dangerous. Well, it's obviously he's in possession of a firearm the restraining order and protective orders didn't keep him from being able to obtain one the biggest issues we're seeing is this isn't just this is nationwide we've gotten to a point to where we want to protect the criminals out there and we're under the name of reform where you're constantly getting released where you should be they should some of these guys need to stay in custody but they constantly get released and they keep committing these crimes

and then they go out with all these charges and he's still able to get hold of a weapon and yes this poor girl's going to end up dead down the line and he's still able to get hold of a weapon and yes this poor girl's going to end up dead down the line and nobody's going to hold this guy responsible for his actions but we want to make excuses that it's the system and then you want to blame law enforcement for not doing their job well how many times are they supposed to go out and let me let me tell you let me tell you exactly what he did so he goes to the victim's home and again remind you he's already on multiple protective orders and he she doesn't open the door he kicks the door open three or four times then the complainant

young lady she ran into the kitchen the defendant defendant stops. He punches a mirror that was hanging on the wall. Then he's also found while there after the police come, he's found in possession of a nine millimeter Glock handgun. This was just the latest offense that he had. Six months earlier, he broke into her home and basically vandalized and destroyed it just to let her know that I'm still here. No charges are going to stop me. No conditions of bond are going to stop me. And I am going to characterize you as often as I can. Yet I continue to go back and say, you know what?

This defendant pretty much bears his bones as to who and what he is repeatedly, but the system keeps allowing him out to do what he does best. And we all know where this is going to end up one day if we continue to let him out in the community, which appears to be the norm these days. I was mentioning and questioning what exactly is the Glock 9. It's a Glock 9 millimeter weapon. And despite how long the Glock 9 has been around, due to innovations in the ammunition lethality and the squeeze greater performance, it is now billed as one of the top five deadliest 9mm ever. And here this guy is who has multiple protection orders against him and is out on bond. Here he

is with a loaded Glock 9. To Randy Wallace joining joining us, Fox 26. How can that be? How can there be so many protective orders? And basically, hold on, Nicole DeBoer, Watch Globe, what is a protective order exactly? So in Harris County, the prosecutor has the, well, in all counties in Texas, the prosecutor has the option to file when there is a case involving domestic violence allegations, a protective order. And in the state of Texas, it is also a crime to violate those conditions. It has been the regular practice in this county for many years to go ahead and file the order. It has been a less consistent practice by the district attorney's office to actually file criminal charges when they violate.

My question to you was, what is a protective order for people that don't know? violence cannot go anywhere near the residence workplace or school of children involving the complainant in the case and if they do they could be charged with a crime. Randy Wallace Fox 26 how many do we even know protective orders have been filed against Julian Chavez I'm sure there was one this in this case yes, several. And he's basically ignored them. And the court has allowed him to ignore them because nothing is done to him. And one thing I want to point out real quick, there was a period of time in Harris County where you didn't have to have 10% of the bond amount. There were bail bonding companies that two, three, four percent was all you needed of the bond amount to get out of jail. To you, Andy Kahn, explain how the bail bondsman fit into this. So this judge, this weak judge, Josh Hill, gives $100,000 bail. So then that means you only have to put up 10% of that, which is $10,000.

But if Julian Chavez doesn't have $10,000 or property worth $10,000, he goes to a bail bondsman and explain how that works. He's got to have basically nothing in exchange for a bond. Well, based on his financial affidavit, he doesn't work. He doesn't know where he lives because he only says he's been living at this place for two weeks. So it's a great mystery where he keeps up coming up with all the money for all these bonds. But obviously, somebody's putting up the bond for him. So prior to April or actually May of 2022, there were several bonding companies in Harris County that kind of figured out that we don't even have to do 10%.

We can put you on a payment plan and some of them were going 2%, 3%, 4%. And then kind of like buying a car every month, you would put up some money to continue the bond. Whether that was done in this case, we really don't know. But it's against policy right now in Harris County to do a less than 10% bond. And let's keep in mind in this particular case, he has already been convicted twice of violating a protective order. And he was actually sentenced to time in a Harris County jail for several hundred days. So you've got convictions of violating a protective order. You've got convictions of criminal trespassing, all in which he breaks into the victim's home. You have felony stalking charges. And now finally, you get another felony violating a protective order. Only this time he's found in possession of a nine millimeter Glock handgun and he's still allowed to return back to the community.

Is it true, Nicole DeBoer Hotchglobe joining us, lawyer in Houston, that this judge has released 10 defendants on bond who went on to allegedly commit murder. Let me tell you a little secret. Whether this judge has or not, I do not know. But the next judge that sits on this bench, if it's not the same judge, will do exactly the same thing. Okay, stop. If you don't know the answer, that's okay. I don't think are a soothsayer or a fortune teller or a clairvoyant.

So you have no idea what the next judge may or may not do. And yes, I'm not sure that you know that there are several lawyers on the panel. We all know about the Constitution. We all know that there are bail hearings required under the Constitution, but whether the judge grants it or goes along with what the DA says or suggests is not determined by the Constitution. The judge determines that. Andy Kahn, now I've got to consider the source, and I'm taking it with a box of salt. But Joshua Norman running against Hill, which thank God somebody's running against him. I don't know the man.

I wouldn't know him if he jumped up and bit me in the neck. I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do know what the stats are saying about Judge Josh Hill. So his competitor, Josh Norman, and again, take it with a box of salt, says Hill has released 10 defendants who go on bond. They go on to commit alleged murder. But it's not just those 10. I'm talking about this case right now. Chavez.

Well, keep in mind, too, that while on bond, he forfeited his bond. So he didn't even show up in court. So I don't know what more you need to think that this person represents a danger to community. Okay. And even let's go back and say you have to give a bond. And I get that. You have to have a bond hearing. That's what you have to do. You have to have a hearing hearing that's what you have to do you have to have a hearing go ahead this guy is such a threat to the community it's fairly obvious so instead of putting it a hundred grand you could have sent the message and saying you know what mr chavez every time i release you on bond you commit another offense enough is enough this time you were found in possession of a nine millimeter Glock handgun. I'm going to set the bond astronomically high so you can't meet it.

That didn't happen. So now we're putting this young lady's life in danger. And it's not the first time it's happened. We were just reporting on Kiara Hudson in upstate New York. Take a listen to our cut to be our friends from WKBW. She's just been trying to get help. I've been with her going to police stations. She's been texting me, sending me videos, giving me her phone password just in case. Montasia Jeter says her sister, Kiera Hudson, was in an abusive relationship, even posting a disturbing video on social media that shows her getting beaten up. Jeter says her sister was staying with her mother because she feared for her life. She's been staying at my mom's house for the last two days,

and she was going to go to court today because he was trying to get custody. But she never made it to court or work. Family members telling me Kara strapped on a bulletproof vest before leaving the house Wednesday morning, got in her SUV with her three kids, and was on her way to drop them off at school when she was shot and killed. Shot and killed. Mom's so afraid she was wearing a bulletproof vest. But listen to this. Our friends at WIVB cut 16B. Adam Benefield's past includes an escape from a local jail and a violent domestic incident with an ex-girlfriend. Back in March 2000,

Benefield was armed with a shotgun when he abducted his estranged girlfriend and another woman on the Kensington Expressway before leading police on a high-speed chase. He was 22 at the time of the incident. Then, in September of the same year, while awaiting trial, he escaped from the Erie County Correctional Facility in Alden by climbing over a 15-foot wall. That was Kiara Hudson, but let's go back to what's happening right there in Houston. Take a listen to our cut 13. The greatest love a person can have is giving their life for another person, and that's exactly what she did. On Saturday,

police say Bochum was trying to help her co-worker get inside the business after Humphrey stole her purse. And was wrestling with the guy trying to get him away where she could shut the door and lock it and he stuck a gun up there and shot her. Humphrey was shot to death Monday by Sheriff's deputies fearing he was armed. 28-year-old Nathan Humphrey Jr. was a career criminal. Here's someone as a teenager you go back and look at his record he got five years in the penitentiary, you know, back in 2012 for aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. In August of last year, Humphrey was freed from jail with a personal recognizance bond for a terroristic threat charge. He never returned to court, but picked up two felony assault charges.

He was a wanted fugitive when officials say he gunned down 59-year-old Robin Bochum, the manager of a Northside Cracker Barrel. You know what, let's bring it back to this case and what we call Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Take a listen to our friend Randy Wallace in Cut 25. Some judges here at Harris County are behind a disturbing trend. Back in 2017, only 30 defendants were granted bond for violating a protective order. Last year, that number rose to 420. Joshua Norman, who's running against 232nd Criminal District Court Judge Josh Hill, says Judge Hill has released 10 defendants on bond who went on to allegedly commit murder.

It's 10 people that perhaps didn't need to lose their lives for a variety of different reasons, but it's just it's not good for the community. It basically is terrible for public safety. Judge Josh Hill told us he, of course, cannot discuss a pending case, but says he might consider doing an interview later this week. Hmm. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Some judges here in Harris County are behind a disturbing trend. Back in 2017, only 30 defendants were granted bond for violating a protective order. Last year, that number rose to 420. Joshua Norman, who's running against 232nd Criminal District Court Judge Josh Hill, says Judge Hill has released 10 defendants on bond who went on to allegedly commit murder.

It's 10 people that perhaps didn't need to lose their lives for a variety of different reasons, but it's just it's not good for the community. It basically is terrible for public safety. Judge Josh Hill told us he, of course, cannot discuss a pending case, but says he might consider doing an interview later this week can't discuss okay randy wallace joining us from fox 26 houston i want to get back on track with julian chavez where does the case stand right now well right now he's basically walking the streets among us and i mean i did it's it's hard to even believe that somebody could be accused of all the things that he's accused of, all the violations. And yet he's a free man as we speak. A free man, Andy Kahn.

A free man, Mike Herman, Nicole DeBoer, Hotchklob. Weigh in, Mike Herman. You're basically telling the victims here that the system's not going to protect you. They don't care. It doesn't care about you. You're on your own and you're forcing them to take the steps to have to figure out how they're going to defend themselves or hide away while you're allowing these people to go out and just take advantage and do anything they want to do. It's again. Yeah, he's out on a, and he's got a loaded handgun on him, and still you're going to get released. It just makes no sense.

To Andy Kahn, the Director of the Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston, Andy, could you, again, for me and for others that didn't get it the first time, because there's so much it was like drinking out of the fire hydrant what exactly is it alleged Chavez did to the young female victim in this case the latest case and keep in mind there's nine other charges for in which he'd been convicted of where he broke into her home chased her smashed, smashed her window, and displayed a nine-millimeter Glock handgun. That's what he's currently out on bond for now. The district attorney's office asked for no bail.

They also stated no conditions of bond will keep this victim safe. He has violated every condition of bond every time you have released him in the last two years. He's been convicted four times while out on bond, yet he's back out again. It's gonna be very interesting to see what happens in the light of some of the coverage that we put on this particular case. But my concern is for this 20 year old

who has to live in fear every second, every minute of somebody who's repeatedly shown he's not going to do anything you ask him. Did I hear you correctly that the prosecutors asked for no bond? That is correct. I'm looking right at the document right here. No bail requested. Nicole DeBord-Hodgeglobe, I thought you said that that was not the case. No, that is the case. The problem in Harris County is that they file these as forms and then don't follow up with the necessary evidence required by state law. In this case, they have actually asked for a hearing, which is the necessary second step. They actually have to present evidence. They can't just file the form. The judge's hands are tied. He cannot hold someone at no bond just because

they filed the form. Okay, question. How about the fact that he could read the documents? Judge Josh Hill had all these documents about Chavez. He doesn't have the documents. Are you telling me, Nicole, that he doesn't have the defendant's rap sheet in front of him? He doesn't until they admit it as part of the hearing. That is absolutely not true. When a judge looks at a bond, whether it's part of a hearing or not, the judge has the rap sheet at the bare minimum in his judicial file or hers. It does not have to be submitted by the prosecutor. The judge has that in his or her own file. This judge, they've got to submit judgment as i was trying to say andy khan when a judge has a bond

decision whether it's a full-on hearing or granting the bond they have the defendant's rap sheet judge josh hill knew who this guy is and what his rap sheet was when he cut him loose i i would be stunned if he didn't know what was happening because like you said, he said $100,000 bond, which is rather high for violence. So you had to have known this person was a repeat offender in order to set what you presume to be a high bond. And also one of the bills that we passed last session, Senate Bill 6, actually required that the criminal history be read and actually signed off on, at least by a magistrate, before you grant a bond. It would be stunning to hear that this particular judge was not aware

of his criminal history and proclivity to violate his bond on teeth amount of times. Back to Randy Wallace, Fox 26, Houston. You asked the judge to give a comment. What happened? He basically, like I said in the piece, he said that he can't, of course, comment on a pending case in his court, but he was considering doing an interview. I've been doing Breaking Bond about these judges, an ongoing series for more than two years, and there's only one current judge that's actually done an interview. She appeared on the Behind Breaking Bond, the live stream that I that I do with Andy Khan judge. Um,

Oh, Andy, I can't think of her name. What's her name? The Marissa and two for 82nd. Yes. And, but these judges are just,

they want to do these things. They don't want to answer any questions about it. And if a judge cannot actually put you in jail for violating the conditions of your bond, what's the whole reason behind it? Why even bother? Right now, Chavez is walking free. His 20-year-old victim remains unnamed because she is afraid. We wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace, Prime Story, Sunny Hall. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.