Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'The Keepers' mystery: Who killed Sister Cathy Cesnick?

Episode Date: April 19, 2019

In this Best of Nancy Grace episode ....The murder of Sister Cathy Cesnick in 1969 is still an intriguing and unsolved mystery after almost a half century. The 26-year-old was a teacher at Archbishop Keough High School when she disappeared. Did this Catholic nun know too much about dark secrets of sexual abuse of students?Nancy Grace explores the “The Keepers” mystery in this Crime Stories episode, along with Gemma Hoskins — known as “Grandma Nancy Drew” for her determination to find answers in this case, private investigator Shane Waters, New York psychologist Cary Stark, and Crime Stories contributing reporter John Lemley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. She was found frozen, mutilated, her face covered in maggots. She, a beloved teacher, a nun. Of course, I'm talking about Kathy Seszenik. Sister Kathy. To this day, her murder, unsolved. Questions echoing. Did the Catholic Church cover up this horrific crime on a beautiful young nun.

But more important, who murdered Sister Kathy? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I want answers. Sister Kathy was reported missing when she did not return home to her apartment one evening. The apartment she shared with another nun, she had gone out to buy a gift. As I recall, a wedding gift. Her sister was getting married. It was Christmas time. Everybody was shopping. It was leading up to Christmas anyway. It was toward the end of November, and it was busy. She went to a local shopping center. And the thing that I know for sure is she went to one of her favorite bakeries. And I believe she made it to the bakery and came out of the bakery and got in her car. Because the fresh buns were still sitting on the seat,

the passenger seat up front in her car when her car was finally located. Kathy Sesnick, Sister Catherine Sesnick, was beautiful, popular, a 26-year-old young nun who had taught at an all-girls Catholic school in Baltimore. Last seen by her roommate, another young nun, when she took off that evening after she got home, November 7, Friday night. Now, Friday night, as I recall, with me, Gemma Hoskins on the story, Shane Waters, private investigator and podcaster, Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist and crime stories investigator reporter John Limley. To Gemma Hoskins, I'm so happy to have you with us as we try to put the pieces together of this puzzle. I'm trying not to think of Sister Kathy being found in that field, her body frozen and mutilated and her face covered in maggots. I'm trying to focus on the night she goes missing. There was a bi-monthly ritual where both the girls, both the ladies would get their checks and they would go deposit it. And they had gotten their checks that day.

I believe the checks were deposited by Sister Kathy before she went shopping at the bakery. Tell me your piecing together the timeline, Gemma Hoskins. Well, thank you, Nancy, by the way, for having me on your program. This is an opportunity for us to keep the attention on the story because it's still a cold case. It's our understanding that Kathy came home from school and she had talked to a student that afternoon about going shopping for her sister because her sister Marilyn was getting married. She was very excited about that. So as far as we know, she went out probably around 7 to 730 after having dinner. Sister Russell was still at the apartment. Kathy traveled not very far, maybe 10 minutes to a local shopping center in Baltimore. She did deposit her check. We do know that the money was in the bank and the receipt for that deposit is in, you know, the police have that. We do know that she bought the buns. Now the bakery was inside a large department store and it was very popular. It had a number of chains around Baltimore. It was named Muley's.

And for folks who have seen the keepers, they will remember that that box of buns was actually on the floor of the passenger seat. And the trash can on the hump, the little bucket that we all used to have in our cars, was also knocked over to the passenger side. And those crime scene photos are actually in the keepers. If I speculate, then everybody in the world will say, well, Gemma knows what happened. And Gemma doesn't know what happened. But I do believe that someone accosted her in the car and possibly forced her over to the passenger seat. I don't know that, but that's what I'm assuming. Well, and it could have been in any way Gemma Hoskins because we know she cashed a $255 check just before she disappears.

It was a routine trip. Either Sister Kathy or her roommate made the trip to the bank every other Friday with their paychecks from the city school system. That bakery box was on, you're saying not the front car seat as I had found, but on the floorboard of the front car seat. And that's significant. It was on the floor. That's significant because you know what it says to me?

If it were me and I were driving and I wanted to eat something from the bakery, which has happened way too many times, I would have it sitting on the seat, the passenger seat, so I could reach over and get it, not the floorboard. So why did she put it in the floorboard? It actually was still wrapped up. You can see the box. It's tied with cord in both directions. It's still wrapped up. You can see the box. It's tied with cord in both directions. It's not mashed.

It's, you know, intact. And it is on the floor of the passenger side. And that was from Hecht, right? Exactly. H-E-C-H-T-S. There was a bakery, Muley's Bakery, within Hex Department Store. Correct. So I believe someone actually saw her there, but we don't need an eyewitness because we know she made it that far.

Now, Hex Bakery, Muley's Bakery, was someone there? Was someone there following her after she cashed her check? Did she ever make it to buy? Didn't she buy a necklace? Is that what she bought for the sister? Well, that's what we've assumed. Now, in the past year, we have indications that she may not have bought anything. the police have an interview with someone at the bridal registry and the heck company. And it indicates that Kathy was asking questions about how to set up a bridal registry. So we, we have a question mark about the necklace.

We don't know. And there was no receipt found or anything in the car that indicated that a gift had been bought there was no car did she still have the money from the cash she'd either i think she cashed some of the check and do we did what happened to the cash the cash was not in the car she she cashed her check so before i say that there was a giant cover-up within the Archdiocese Church where she, she had taught for so long, Archbishop Keough High School, before I claim that, I mean, could it have been, Gemma, that somebody saw her with an expensive necklace she just bought, followed her out, or somebody got her after she cast a

check, the money was nowhere to be found. Are those viable options or no? I don't have a dog in the fight. I just want the truth. Both are possible. We did have the necklace analyzed at a jewelry store last year, and he indicated that it was probably one of a number of necklaces that were made more as a novelty for birthstones. And he said at that time in 1969, it was probably worth about $15. So it wouldn't have been high-end jewelry, but $15 to a teacher who's making $250 every two weeks would be a lot of money. So we're not sure about that. Of course, it's possible that someone may have seen her deposit the check. We also know that a young girl from Archbishop Keough was near the bank in the parking lot with her mom, and they talked to Sister Kathy in the parking lot, and the police had their interview. So we don't know if that was as she was leaving to return home or to go across the street to the hat company,

or if it was when she was going into the bank. With me also is Shane Waters, private investigator and podcaster, also on the story. The other monster rearing its head in this scenario is a series of claims made, which I believe, I'll just put it out there, I believe these women, regarding sex abuse within Archbishop Keough High School by one of the fathers, Joseph Maskell. What do you know, Shane? Well, Nancy, I will say I also believe these women. And since the Netflix documentary aired, several more of them came forward. So when I look at this case, there's a few different angles.

It's almost like a few different fronts. There's this abuse that's happening. I believe 100% that it happened and the church covered it up. When I look at this case, I also see the similarities between the Church of Baltimore and the mafia. And I say that because the mafia we know has influence. They have money and people are scared of them. And it seems like that's what these women were facing at that time as well. Not only was it the mafia presence, but they also were afraid of the faith element as well. You know, my family is very religious,

they're not Catholic, but I think if I were to ever approach someone and say that I was being abused by someone from the church, that puts a lot of question in my family's faith. And unfortunately, that was what these women were all facing at that time. Also, when I'm looking at this case, just as an overhead, it's easy to wonder if Kathy was robbed. We see people being robbed all the time and they don't, they don't end up in the same fate that Kathy ended up. So the question, the big question here is, are these events related? And I mean, it's, it's crazy. All of these women that were abused, they will tell you, we think that this was related. Because, of course, prior to Sister Kathy being murdered, she was saying that she was going to confront these people who were abusing.

And it's not that she was just going to be confronting Father Matzkel. confronting this church that we know protected him, and they are willing to put their selves and their money on the line to protect him. So when you come up with this scenario, what are they willing to do to ensure that they not only continue to protect this monster, but to protect themselves? Because now they've dug a hole where they've protected him for so many years. You know, anytime abuse would come up against him, they would move him to a different place, or they would send him to a facility where they would try to help him or try to stray him in a different direction. But after so long, you know, if Sister Kathy would have came out at that time and made a big noise against them, that's a lot of people with a lot of money and a lot of influence that would have gone down. And I don't see them that she was molested by the priest, A. Joseph Muskell,

she seemingly knew all about rampant molestation, sex molestation, in the Catholic school, Archbishop Keough High School. In fact, isn't it true, Gemma Hoskins, that she, quote, ran interference for one of his molestation victims that didn't want to see him or encounter him? Horrible position to be in as a young girl being raped and molested over and over and over at school by the person that when you're in confession, you're literally speaking to God. And you have to see the person at school. And she's apparently one of the victims enlisted Sister Kathy to keep her away from her molester. Correct. So Kathy knew about everything. Was she about to blow the lid? Gemma, what can you tell me about these victims?

Well, I know firsthand of three women who, when they were girls, confided in Kathy. And the first one I know confided in December of 68, the other two in the spring of 1969. 69. Now, Kathy left Archbishop Keough to teach in a public school and to live in an apartment in the spring in June of 69. So on one hand, the girls felt like she had abandoned them, but my gut tells me that perhaps she and Russell were afraid to stay there. She told her family, they were very dismayed that she was leaving and thinking about leaving the convent. And she told her family that it was more dangerous for her to teach at Keough than it was to teach in the city in Baltimore, which says a lot. Now, we also are aware from more than one woman that high-ranking politicians and businessmen and police officers were involved in the abuse. This was a prostitution ring.

This wasn't just a few girls from Keogh. There were drugs involved. There were sleazy motels involved. And everybody took care of each other. If it goes all the way to City Hall and it did, then everybody's taking care of each other. The police are taking care of Maskell. The politicians are taking care of the businessmen and the police. Nobody talks.

The police are being serviced, some right at the school, coming in the fire door into Father Maskell's office where drugged or hypnotized girls were there and money is exchanged. When I think that I was in that building, it makes me so angry that the only thing that divided us from that hell was a one-inch door. It's appalling because we knew nothing about what was going on. And we know that I believe many of the administrators in the building knew what was happening. They refused to talk to the police, the ones that are still living. They've been told by their superiors not to talk,

and it's not right. Somebody has to blow the whistle. This is not okay. Well, there's some credence, a fair bit of credence to Gemma's story, because we know that Father Joseph Maskell was a chaplain and counselor there at Archbishop Keough High School. He had a brother on the police force. And there is no doubt that Sister Kathy knew about the abuse. Not only did he have a brother on the police force, he was a counselor or the chaplain to the force as well. So there are a lot of connections between him and the police.

To Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of New York. Karen, I mean, I'm Methodist. I'm not Catholic. But when I hear about a Methodist minister who has done a horrible deed. I am mortified. I think it's just horrible because that's someone you look up to, that you trust. I consider my minister, we have male and female ministers at our family church. I consider them not only friends but confidants and someone that I would go to to pray for or with me in times of need. You know, it's hard to take in that someone who is a person of God that we look to, that we look up to, and I do, I look up to them.

Even though I've heard countless stories about this priest did that, this preacher did that, this minister did that, and most of them are true. To think that these young girls were in this position to be raped over and over and over. And Maskell was transferred from one place to the next. And now you've got a dead nun? I mean, why do people, why are, explain the thinking, the mindset of when you will not report molestation because it is a priest or a pastor. Well, I think it's important for you to know, Nancy, and for everyone listening that it's not just a priest or a pastor. It's anyone who is older who's in a position. It becomes a position of authority.

So if it's a parent, it doesn't matter who the person is that's doing the molestation when you're a child. And that means if you're in elementary school or if you're in high school, you are blaming yourself and ashamed of what happened. You don't really understand that you are not to blame in a situation like this. And it's shameful. That person who wanted Sister Kathy to, you know, keep her from seeing the priest, I can promise you that it wasn't because she was just angry with him. She felt bad about herself. And there's a conspiracy of silence

because nobody wants to come forward and reveal that this has happened to them. They believe that they have somehow contributed to this occurring. And so it's shameful on so many levels. Does that explain it? Yes, it does, Karen. And as a crime victim myself, on several levels, and having dealt with so many sex attack victims, a lot of times you just don't want to talk about it. And you feel that somehow it was your fault. And it's shameful. And that's the way so many sex attack victims feel. And then add on the layer of the attacker getting away with it. You feel like nobody's going to listen to you. Nobody's going to believe you. So shut the hay up. And your family may not believe you. Your family, who may be wedded to the church, may consider you at fault.

I mean, it's just, in their minds, it's just not worth it. Gemma Hoskins, isn't it true? You're a senior there at Keough High School at the time Sister Kathy goes missing, right? Correct. Yes, correct. What was it like when you discover she's not at school today? Yeah. What happened? Well, at the time that she disappeared, she was no longer teaching at Keough.

That's right. She was teaching at Western High School in the city. But we were told that she was missing, that, you know, there were no cell phones and no Facebook. But our telephones, our landlines, all the girls were all calling each other. And a whole community showed up at her apartment to help search. And you've seen pictures of all the police cars. Well, there were that many families looking as well. We were bewildered. We didn't know that perhaps she just needed to get away. Maybe she,

you know, just needed some space. We had no idea what happened to her. It didn't make sense. Was she the kind of person that needed space? Well, she kind of made her own space, but we knew nothing about the abuse. So we had nothing to assume. None of us knew anything about what was going on at the school except the girls it was happening to. So I'm sure their mindset was very different. And I know that I've heard one woman say that she had confided in Kathy and has felt guilty that she might have been responsible for Kathy's death. So none of us knew what was going on. Well, listen to this. Listen to this, Gemma.

With me, Gemma Hoskins, Shane Waters, Karen Stark, and John Limley. Guys, listen to this. This is Donna Von Den Bosch, who suffered horrific abuse. She actually got a meager settlement with the Catholic Church. She was attacked when she was just 14 years old by the same father, Maskell. She had been a bright, excited excited happy freshman at the school and here she is on wjz describing how she was given a drug laced soda while she was at a catholic youth picnic and then raped by father Maskell and another priest.

Listen. He was psychotic. Here's this parish priest that I've known since I was 12, and it's all so confusing. And this would go on for the next three years. She opens up to WJZ, telling how she served a drug-laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by Father Maskell and another priest. I'm just woozy. I fall down. He lays on top of me. He puts his legs in between my legs to spread my legs apart and rapes me. She goes on to state that at school she would hear her name called over the loudspeaker telling her to report to Father Maskell's office. She said that sometimes she

would go in and be raped and sometimes he would have a coke. She would be drugged most of the time and would be threatened. Listen. Sometimes I would go in and be raped. Sometimes he would have a coke. I would be drugged most of the time. He would keep guns in his top drawer. He would threaten me with them. He stole your innocence. Yes. He stole your education. Yes. Did he steal your faith? Yes, because maybe I could have grown up Catholic and

been happy. And I had to teach my kids, you just don't trust people because they have a collar on or something. You know, monsters hide. You've seen a monster? Yes, yes. How do you feel about the Archdiocese now? This has to stop. People have to take responsibility. I hope they find out the terrible deeds that were done

and justice be served. I also hope that other survivors hear that you can survive, you can move on. Don't be fooled into silence. So in my mind, John Limley, the fact that the church settled, it wasn't for a lot, but they did make a $40,000 settlement for all the rapes she endured at the hands of Father, and I say that with dirt in my mouth, Maskell. So to me, that tells me her story is true.

Or why would they have settled? And a lot of that didn't take place until 20 or so years later, two decades after the abuse. I think it would be interesting to go back to the timeline of that early November evening when Sister Kathy disappeared to bring a little bit more forward about the case. Now, a few hours went by after Sister Kathy told Sister Russell that she was going to cash her paycheck, go to the bakery, maybe do a little shopping. It's 11 o'clock. A good number of hours have gone by. And so Sister Russell becomes worried. So she calls two of their priest friends who drive over to the apartment.

They eventually decide to call the police and then they wait and they wait for hours. In fact, at one point they even celebrate mass at the at the kitchen or dining room table, just hoping against hope that that Sister Kathy just shows up. Around 4.40 the next morning, it's still very dark, Sister Kathy's brand new green Ford Maverick is found with mud on it, unlocked, illegally parked, just diagonally across from her apartment. And this is interesting. The back end of the vehicle is actually in the road. And Sister Kathy had a designated parking spot behind the apartment building, so she certainly would not have parked there. It's as if someone wanted that vehicle

found, but there was no sign of the nun anywhere. Well, I can tell you this, John, she did not park that car that way. No, not at all. And it was several weeks. It was months later before on a cold, cold January day. Sister Kathy's body is found by a hunter and his son. It was found in an informal landfill. You know, it was a landfill that was not designated as such. It's just where people went to dump stuff.

It was on Monumental Road in a remote area, a good distance away from Kathy's apartment. And after an autopsy was performed, it was revealed that Sister Kathy died from an intracerebral hemorrhage after a fracture to her skull that was inflicted by a blow to her left temple, they think by a blunt instrument. When Sister Kathy was reported that night, dozens of cops, a half a dozen dog teams, searched and searched a wide swath of Baltimore in that neighborhood looking for clues. Headlines in the papers were city police fail to find missing none and as John Limley is reporting the next time she was seen it was a horrifying sight there she was her face covered in maggots The body of Sister Kathy frozen out in a field. When I look at her in her habit and then in her street clothes, she just looks so alive and so happy and so eager to teach.

But it all turned into a horrific scene when she was found. Gemma, what can you tell me about another young girl who claims that she was taken by Father Meskell to see as a threat Sister Kathy's body as it lie in this field? Yes, I can clarify something. When Kathy's body was found, there was not evidence of maggots on her face. This has been a real issue of what actually happened. Because it was January, this is horrendous, but I've done research on the life cycle of maggots. And I've worked with the people that run the body farm, which is a research place for decomposition. And what I learned was that because it was very warm after Kathy disappeared, when Jean was taken to see her in November, there were live maggots on her face and on her body. Now, in January, there was no evidence of that, but in reading the autopsy,

which I have a copy of, and by the way, Werner Spitz, and we all know who Werner Spitz is, he explains that there were maggots in her trachea and her esophagus. So that what happens when the weather gets cold is that live maggots burrow deeper to where it's warm. And I have to try and stay objective about this because it's very emotional for me to think that this happened to the person who was my mentor and the reason I became a teacher. Because to think of her in this setting is just really difficult for me. But the maggots actually were not on her face. They were inside her body, and that showed up in the autopsy. You know, I find that really interesting, Gemma, what you're saying, because the witness says that there were maggots.

And I believe, Gemma, you're going to laugh. I had one of the oldest judges in the Fulton County Courthouse who I would also like to point out, the sharpest and the smartest judge I ever knew, Luther Alverson told every jury the same jury charge. It is your duty as jurors to make all witnesses speak the truth in puning perjury on no one. Which means stories can vary to a certain degree. That doesn't mean the people are lying. That means maybe they saw it at a different angle, maybe this, maybe that. So if this, if there were maggots in her throat, her esophagus, and this young girl is brought out to see the dead body and says there are maggots,

I don't know what she saw. Maybe she saw one. I believe that given your scenario that I think both both witnesses are speaking the truth. But how did the girl get out there and why did she report the dead body? by him for quite a while, he told her that he knew where Kathy was. Maskell took her to see Kathy's body. And at that time, because it was just a few weeks after her disappearance, there were live maggots on her face. So Jean is correct in saying that. When Kathy's body was found in January, there was no evidence of maggots because it was cold and they burrow deep into organs to get warm. Why do you believe she didn't come forward, Gemma Hoskins? Well, she was threatened with her life. Maskell said to her, you see what happens when you say bad things about people. And she was terrified.

So Jean is the connection between the abuse and the murder. She's credible. I believe her. And when he took her there, it was to ensure her silence because she knew then that he had been responsible in some way for Kathy's death, for her murder. And that was early in his abuse career. So to every single person who had been abused by him, and we know now that that number is over 100, and to any nun at that school who knew about the abuse, everybody closed their mouth. They were terrified because they knew they could be next. And I always believed that that is why Russell did not call the police,

because she knew the police were involved. I think that's why she called Kathy's friend, Jerry Coob, and the other brother who was a friend, because she didn't know who to turn to. I think it almost proves that the police were involved because Russell kept silent and didn't call the police. But I believe that Jean is very credible. There's no way that she could have known that those live maggots were there unless she saw them. I think that that is very important, very important. John Limley, when I prosecute cases and I've got a witness and I don't care if they're believable or unbelievable or credible or not credible. If I'm putting them on the stand, I believe them. And if I can get any scintilla of evidence to support what they're saying, it is very important at trial.

And Gemma Hoskins, who was a senior there at Keough School when Sister Kathy goes missing and is killed, is describing this. That's so important. That's why I spent so much time talking about maggots. Not my favorite topic, but because they corroborate what this young girl said, that Maskell took her there and said, look what happens to people that talk about me. You could be next. And this is a detail this young girl wouldn't have just dreamed up on her own. And then years later, it turns out there were maggots in her esophagus.

So it supports her story. It's so upsetting to me. Now, here's another twist another wrinkle the body of maskell who later died with never going to jail was exhumed his dna did not match crime scene dna that means nothing to me john limley because i don't have any evidence Sister Kathy, who, by the way, was compared to Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. That's the kind of personality she had, and I can just imagine her. I've been reading all the old articles in the paper. For instance, police continue a widespread search today for a pretty blue-eyed 26-year-old nun

who mysteriously disappeared Friday night on a shopping expedition in the Edmonton Village area off Route 40. Sister Catherine Sesnick, a member of the School Sisters of Notre Dame, reported missing early yesterday, five hours after failing to return to her apartment. Her sporty new car, a 1970 green Maverick found during the night parked a block from her home. Its only contents, a box of buns from Muley's Bakery and a novel on native grounds. I'm just imagining her. Crime Stories contributing reporter John Limley, his DNA did not match DNA at the scene. But for all I know, the DNA at the scene is DNA in the car. It could be on the car. It could be anything.

It could be on the paper bag. That does not mean anything to me. Limley, where did the DNA come from? They're talking about. Yeah, the the DNA was was found at the scene. That's been under wraps a little bit because even so many decades later. The car, the apartment, the bank, the store, the bakery bag, the body. What scene?

There's a primary, a secondary, and a tertiary crime scene here. Right. This was found connected with the vehicle and surrounding Kathy's body there where they found her on that January morning. Are you sure that's where the DNA came from? I can verify. Gemma, go ahead. Because I'm not clear either. Where did the DNA come from? Okay. The DNA came from a cigarette butt. all right? It was found at the crime scene. But at this point, the police have asked me not to share exactly where at the crime scene. That's all I can say. But it was at the crime scene where her body was found.

But I can't tell you specifically where because I've been asked not to. So it was where her body was. Yes. And that's still... tell you specifically where because i've been asked not to so it was where her body was yes and jemma no we've got to keep the integrity of the investigation exactly jemma here's the thing it still means nothing to me because i don't know how that cigarette butt got there it may or may not be connected i you just can't tell me that he was not involved in some way. I will never tell you that because I believe he choreographed the whole thing. Whether he was there or not, we don't know. Yeah, read between the lines. The cigarette butt was at the crime scene. And my opinion is that it may have been a decoy because it hasn't matched anybody.

And so perhaps, you know, these guys were, I think they were in cahoots. They weren't stupid. Maskell was a monster genius. And if he involved thugs, anybody could have thrown a cigarette button there from any place, and everybody would have gone in the wrong direction. Jim, let me ask you a cigarette button there from any place, and everybody was going in the wrong direction. Jim, let me ask you a question. What was his personality? Was he charismatic? Was he attractive? I mean, I've looked at him. He's not attractive to me. But why were people drawn to him? Okay, Maskell was charismatic in, he was very brilliant. He was very smooth, smooth talker. To me, he was never physically

attractive. People say, you know, who would play him in a movie? And I can't think of any. He's not George Clooney, but very insidious, always watching. It's my understanding that he would consult with the nurse, the counselor, and the dean each week about what girls were having problems, mental, physical, school, emotional. And that would be his shopping list. I hate to say it that way, but that's how he preyed on his victims. Girls who were having issues, girls who were upset, girls who were experimenting with drugs or were having problems at home. He was looking for anybody that he could manipulate. And I'm not saying that all the victims were in that situation, but he was drawn to certain types of girls that he knew he would be able to manipulate. He would say mass. He did not live at Archbishop Keogh. He would come to say mass, and he was chaplain. The other priest that was there was the head of religious studies,

and that was Neil Magnus. He also was abusive. He is actually the first person that some of the girls interacted with in confession, and then he asked them to come to his office. So he and Maskell would abuse girls together. We also know that some of the staff at the school facilitated the visits to his office by calling the girls or giving out the passes. A lot of people knew what was going on and nobody was talking about it. And I believe Sister Kathy and Sister Russell were the only two that were willing to do anything. So Maskell had a lot of power, but a control freak, a sociopath. And I believe that this man had enough power, enough skills. He fooled everybody. He fooled everybody, even his own teachers in his master's programs. If there is something I could say about this whole issue, and Nancy, thank you so much for

doing this because people listen to you, and I hope that you'll continue to push for attention to this, but I want to celebrate and acknowledge all the people that have come forward because there are well over a hundred now and many more hundreds who have contacted me that the Keepers survivors gave them the strength and the courage to speak for the first time about being sexually abused or sexually harassed. And I think that a lot of what's happening in the public right now is due in part to the women of the keepers. Karen Stark joining us out of New York. Will this case ever be solved?

Why or why not? Sure. If it does get solved, it will be because of all the attention that's been brought to the case because of Gemma and her fellow investigator. However, even if it never gets solved, I want to say that it's so important that it came to light and that the victims get a chance to tell their story and get it out and that we hope it will never happen in the future because of people like Gemma. Gemma Hoskins, final thought. To me, I'm not religious, but I do have faith and I do believe in my higher power. But to me, if evil walks the earth, it would have been him, pure evil, because he could hide behind a priest's vestments and he could come across as being charming and smart you know his professor at at hopkins said he was one of the smartest people she ever met and he fooled her because they became

friends and it wasn't until the near the end of his life that she realized what he was doing so it's appalling because you know people believe well you do what the priest says and girls were afraid to tell and it's a mess it's a mess i do believe it'll be solved i think the police it boils down to well you're you're an attorney it's going to be either DNA, a confession, or an eyewitness. And all three of those are possible right now. And the police are using new technology. They're doing further testing with DNA on evidence that was found at the scene. And I believe it'll be solved, and probably in the not-too-distant future. The case of the abduction and murder of Sister Kathy is still open, still unresolved. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.