Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - THE NANNY KNOWS! Missing Mom Jennifer Dulos' Nanny SPILLS FAMILY SECRETS IN MURDER TRIAL

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

The long-awaited trial of Michelle Troconis got underway with prosecutors presenting evidence from the day Jennifer Farber Dulos went missing.  The first person to testify in the case was Lieutenant Aaron LaTourette, New Canaan Police Department. He was the first patrol officer on the scene and the first person to notice possible blood in the garage. Talking to another officer wearing a body cam, LaTourette is heard talking about the possibility the vehicle hit a deer, but didn't see anything indicating there had been that type of event. The jury watched 20 minutes of the footage of LaTourette and Officer Black of the New Canaan Police Department walking through the home and focusing on parts of the garage where officers believe they see what appears to be blood stains on the floor and a black SUV.  The officers are also seen looking through Jennifer Dulos' purse. The nanny,  Lauren Almeida, tells police it is unusual for Jennifer's purse to be in the house when she isn't home. It was the nanny who called the police in May of 2019, the night Jennifer Dulos disappeared.  Lauren Almeida has now testified about witnessing the marriage go from one of love and fun and trust to one of fear and intimidation after Fotis Dulos admitted to an affair.  Almeida told the jury how she helped Jennifer Dulos secretly move her things out of the house over a while so as not to alarm Fotis Dulos.  Almeida began as a part-time babysitter for the Dulos children in 2012 and eventually became their full-time nanny. On the stand, Almeida can tell the jury about the day Jennifer Dulos vanished. Jennifer Dulos dropped her children off at school and was never seen again. Her body has never been found. Almeida says the big change in the relationship between Jennifer and Fotis Dulos was during a vacation in March 2017. After a week in Aspen skiing in the snow, the family spent a week in Miami skiing in the water. In Miami, Jennifer Dulos tells the nanny, that Fotis Dulos is having an affair and she has proof. Almeida says she doesn't believe it at first, but over the next few months, everything changed. Jennifer Dulos has found receipts from when Fotis Dulos went to Utah on a trip with Troconis and another couple and emails confirming the relationship.  Almeida is convinced to help Jennifer Dulos secretly move items out of the house because she fears what Fotis Dulos would do to her or the kids if she filed for divorce while they were living under the same roof. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Mark Sherman - Managing Partner of Mark Sherman Law Caryn L. Stark – NYC Psychologist, Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter/X, @carynpsych, Facebook: “Caryn Stark” Lisa M. Dadio – Former Police Lieutenant, New Haven Police Department; Senior Lecturer & Director of the Center for Advanced Policing University of New Haven’s Forensic Science Department JJoe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter/X: @JoScottForensic Jen Smith- Chief Reporter for DailyMail.com, Twitter/X: @jen_e_smith   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The nanny knows. Oh, yes, she does. You know, babysitters slash nannies, they see what's going on. They know exactly what's going on in the home. And if they don't see it themselves, the children tell them in their own special way. Now, this particular nanny noticed that her boss slash friend, Jennifer Dulos, still had a full cup of tea sitting in the kitchen. What does that mean? Okay. You know how many times I've reheated this cup of tea right here? I don't know, Jackie, what four or five before I can finish the thing because I'm running around doing 50 things here in the studio. So Jennifer Dulos probably did the same thing, but she never

made it back to that cup of tea. She was known to have tea mostly in the mornings before lunch. So that's the kind of detail that CSI may miss, but the nanny knows. She also knew about the affair, the sex affair Fotis Doulos was having. Not worried at all about the five children that would be impacted by his cheating. You know, Joe Scott, let me just go to you first. I always hear the phrase, men are dogs. When you hear that, what does that go to you first. I always hear the phrase men are dogs. When you hear that, what does that mean to you? Men are dogs.

No offense to all you listeners. I think my husband's probably listening right now. He's in the car on an out-of-town trip. And I made sure he had Sirius XM. So what does that mean? You're the expert. Men are dogs. What does that mean? I'm an expert on qualifying whether

or not men or dogs. Well, I don't know. I mean, as a man, I'm going to answer. Are you going to skitter away from that? I'm about to answer, you know, spit it out. Well, I'm trying to be careful here. No, we're not. We're not. We're not all dogs. We're not all dogs because some of us, some of us actually take care of our responsibilities to our wives and to our children. He's skating. You know what? I bet Karen Stark won't skate with me in addition to alleged expert Joe Scott Morgan. Karen Stark is with me. We're now psychologists, trauma expert, consultant at karenstark.com. And I always say Karen with a C so you can find her karenstark.com. Karen, I'm not saying all men are dogs.

My father was completely loyal to my mother. My husband, I would bet my life on it, Lord help me, that he has never cheated in our marriage. So all men are not dogs. I didn't say the phrase was all men are dogs. I said men are dogs. Some men, not you, of course, Joe Scott Morgan. What does that mean to you, Karen Stark? And don't give me any psychobabble that I don't know what you're saying. What does it mean?

Well, I think it means that there are men that you absolutely can trust that cheat on their wives. And I think we're talking about a case just like that. You can't say all men because research does show, Nancy, that there are women that do exactly the same thing. It's not just men. And it isn't even a majority of men compared to women. It's pretty close. Men or dogs. I take it that you mean that men like dogs will just hop on top of anything that goes by. Yes. And not be selective, but not care. Not exactly selective.

Hey, you know another thing? Let's throw this to high-profile lawyer Mark Sherman. He has been joining us from the courthouse where Fotis Dulo's mistress is on trial connected to the murder of Jennifer Dulo's mother of five. Mark Sherman, we're talking about the phrase men are dogs. You heard Karen Stark's response. Weigh in. Look, it's it's a lot of them are, Nancy. And what happens is in a courtroom, if you can just destroy the credibility of the suspect or the murderer with cheating or lying or stealing, a jury will hold on to that and go down the deepest, darkest path. And it's a really good theme that you could carry through a whole trial.

Of course, as a good defense attorney will argue. and they're right, cheating does not a murder make. But when you do have cheating and you have a dead body, that's who you look at first, the cheater. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and on SiriusXM 111. I've been accused of being a man hater many, many times. That is she is telling all. Take a listen to Lauren Almeida, Jennifer Dulos' friend turned nanny.

Did there come a point in time when the dynamic between Jennifer and Mr. Dulos began to change from when you first met them? Yeah. Could you describe how the dynamic changed for the jury? The big dynamic change was in March of 2017, which is when Jennifer found out about his affair. And a few months after that, it totally changed. So I want to direct your attention now to March of 2017. Did you take a trip with the Dulos family? Yeah. And where did y'all go?

The kids had a two-week break. And so the first week we spent in Aspen, Colorado. And then we flew to Miami for the second week. Who went on the trip? The first week was myself, five kids, Jennifer Fotis, and his friend, Mark Maciela. Joining me in addition to high-profile lawyer Mark Sherman, who has been joining us from the courthouse, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and I have been there and done several recreations

with Joe Scott. Their facilities in the criminal justice, a school of criminal justice, are amazing. He's also author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit series, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Also with me, Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant right down the street from where Jennifer Dulos goes missing. For those of you that can't see me, I just put that in air quotas because she's dead. Haven't ever found her body, but I am not giving Fotis Dulos and his sidekick, Michelle Chaconis, a gold star for managing to get rid of her body. She has been a lead detective on high-profile cases like the Annie Lee case, senior lecturer and director at the Center for Advanced Policing and graduate program coordinator

with the University of New Haven. But first, to Jen Smith, Chief Investigative Reporter for DailyMail.com. Your coverage has been amazing, Jen. On the few times I couldn't hear the testimony myself, I looked at your coverage and you have really gotten it down to the details. Another big question, Jen Smith, in addition to the rhetorical question, why is it said men are dogs? Have you ever noticed that men always cheat down? They never cheat up. They always cheat. What are you laughing at over there, Jackie?

Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Yes, Sidney, you're all happy in your new relationship. Listen, listen to us. Not that you know who would ever cheat. That's never going to happen, I'm sure. But why is that, Jen Smith? I mean, look.

Yeah, I mean, you make a good point as to why they do it. You know, your guess is as good as mine, Nancy. I couldn't tell you. I do not get it either. I mean, if we're talking, Jennifer Dulos was this beautiful, loving mother, really exuberant, full of life. This nanny's testimony really painted a picture

of the kind of woman that she was, which I think, honestly, we were sort of lacking before this. So much of the discussion around this case has been about the character of Fossey Doulos and his mistress, Michelle Tricone, is now on trial. Yesterday, we actually obtained a clearer picture of what a wonderful woman Jennifer Doulos was. OK, hold on just one moment. Can we just look? And believe me, looks aren't everything. My husband, David Lynch, he dated so many women

that were just beautiful on the outside. I mean, just stunning. And somehow I managed to get him. But looking at Jennifer Dulos, I mean, she's gorgeous. Oh gosh. She reminds me of, um, help me figure out who I'm trying to remember. Jackie's beautiful movie star with the long, dark hair. Um, anyway, perfect teeth, just gorgeous. Um, but aside from her beautiful looks on the outside, she was beautiful on the inside. Now that's the quality that's rare. I mean, you can go to some plastic surgeon and end up beautiful on the outside, but beautiful on the inside. That's kind of hard, uh, to fix. And on top of that, and possibly the single most importantim smith she is the mother of five doulos children one as young as six when this went down now are there two sets of twins yeah that's

correct we have two sets of twins and then a fifth child you know big family very happy beautiful family um living in you know pretty idyllic surroundings up in New Canaan, Connecticut. Hey, when you say New Canaan, let's go to Lisa Daddio joining us out of West Haven, Connecticut, former police lieutenant. Hey, you got to be a millionaire just to drive through New Canaan. Oh, absolutely. It's one of the most elitist towns in Connecticut. The home values, just everything about New Canaan is

unbelievable. Hey, Sydney, can you look up online the price of their home? I forgot how many millions of dollars it was. But you know what, Jen Smith, investigative reporter at DailyMail.com. Hey, Jen, have you ever been to Aspen? I sure haven't, Nancy. I don't think my paycheck was stretched that far. Okay, that's what I was going to tell you. I went with a group to Aspen when I was a prosecutor, which, you know, I had two night jobs just to make the house note and the car note. I did, after the first, oh, 1.75 mil, ouch. After the first trip up, when I realized how much, just a ticket to go up the funicular to the top and ski down, I skied the, I was horrible at it by the way, I skied the whole day until it got dark because I knew I could not afford to do that again the next day.

So the next day I just sat around and drank everybody else's hot chocolate. Okay. Because I didn't want to pay $8 for a cup of hot chocolate either. So I just basically moot hot chocolate off people. They call it apres ski after ski. And it was fun, but it just is so expensive. And I'd like to point out, Jen Smith, isn't it true that they stayed at this gorgeous place in Aspen because her, Jennifer Dulos' father, had like one charity auction so they could stay there. Voters Dulos is not shelling out anything. Jennifer Doulos' father, who was a very successful, impressive financier, pretty much a Wall Street wizard, he had won a stay in this beautiful Aspen kind of chalet mansion.

And generously gave it to his daughter to take her five kids there skiing and with her husband. So Fotis was not paying for this trip. You're quite right. I mean, you talked about the expensive hot chocolates, but something tells me that maybe Jennifer Doulos' father was helping them out in more ways than just giving them their accommodation for the week. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Karen Stark joining me, psychologist joining us from Manhattan. I don't know if this is in the DSM, the diagnostic. What is DSM? Diagnostic. But I know manual and I know diagnostic, but this is in the DSM, the diagnostic. What is DSM?

Diagnostic. But I know manual and I know diagnostic. But what is the S? Statistics. Yes, that. Is mooch in there? Is what? Mooch.

Mooch? Mooch. M-O-O-C-H. Parasite. Tick. I keep looking for mooch, but they haven't included it yet. I'm telling you what, you know, if I come in and David Lynch is sitting in his chair, I'm like, uh-uh, you go right back out there and go back to the office and work some more.

That's what Fotis Dulos is. Now, Jen Smith, isn't it true he had his own construction company? He did, yeah. He launched the Fore Group, which he kind of presented as a property development firm. It was more of a construction company, building houses in and around Connecticut. He obviously wanted to get into the market, very well-heeled group of people up there. So he ran the four group, but he ran it

predominantly, Nancy, with money that had been loaned to him. He never paid it back from Jennifer Doulos' father. It was around $1.7 million that her family gave him to launch this construction business and keep it afloat as he struggled through financial hardships with it in those early years. Financial hardships? They're skiing in Aspen. They have a $2 million home. Okay, whatever. If you call that a hardship, go ahead. I guess it's all relative. Guys, let's cut to more of the nanny on the stand in our Cut 28. Did there come a point in time during the trip where Mr. Bulos told the group he had taken the children to an adult club?

How did Jennifer react upon hearing this? She like shocked because they were little and they were going to a day club. And so she was like, we were both kind of like disgusted, I guess is the word. And what was Mr. Dulos' demeanor like as he was relaying this information? He was excited that he like paid off the people to let his kids into this day club where yeah he seemed really happy about it jan smith what is a day club what is that you know it's there's a clue in the name it's the the daytime equivalent of a nightclub it's somewhere that you can go you know they're quite common on beaches and resorts you you know, sometimes in ski resorts as well, mountains,

where adults over 21 will go and drink and dance and party during the day. So it is not an appropriate place for young children by any stretch of the imagination. Lisa Daddio, a former police lieutenant in this jurisdiction, I'm very surprised that he wasn't arrested right then and there for taking his children to a bar. Why not just take him to a strip club? Hey, why don't you just score some crack cocaine out on the street? Why is he taking his children to a nightclub in the middle of the day? Yeah, that's a really good question, Nancy. And again, you know, part of it may be were the police even notified that this happened at the time and if there was an investigation done.

But regardless of him being a mooch and a bad dad, let's get right down to the murder and what led up to the murder. Listen. What did Jennifer say to you about the affair when you were in Miami? Objection. Well, that's going to be a... She told me she believed that Fotis was having an affair. She just said she had this feeling, he's been acting weird, and I didn't really believe her at first. And when you say you didn't really believe her, what do you mean by that?

At that time, I had a good relationship with Fotis and I believed him to be an honest guy and I couldn't imagine him having an affair where there's five little kids involved. So what did you say to her? I said no. Did you hear Mark Sherman, the defense attorney, and of course I guess if I were ever a defense attorney I would do the same thing, objecting and the defense attorney objected quite a bit throughout the nanny's testimony and I'm sure will continue today, he did not want the jury to hear what the deceased victim, the mother of five, told the nanny, that her husband was sleeping around. He objected. Why?

It wasn't the most aggressive objection. No, it wasn't. And, you know, you have to wonder why, because, again, this is someone who is making a statement about something happening, you know, way back, no ability to cross examine it. And the law says, you know, that should not be admissible. But I think I think the judge let it in for Jennifer's state of mind, not for the truth of whether or not Fotis was actually having these affairs, but for what Jennifer believed at the time to sort of corroborate and justify her fear. And that's been the defense strategy all day this past couple of days is this fear building up over those two year period from the time she discovers the affair to the

time that she might go and apply for a restraining order, which we'll hear about later on in evidence. It just is a buildup. And that's all about how fearful Jennifer Dulos was. If you notice, Nancy, the prosecutor asked, what was her demeanor? He didn't ask her, what did she say? But they got her in. They must have prepped her because she got it in. She got it into evidence. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Mark Sherman. You're a veteran trial lawyer like your dad, Mickey. Mark, also, whoever, whichever one of the defense attorneys that was, made another crucial mistake. He didn't give the grounds for the objection. You can't, if there's a conviction later on, complain about the objection that was overruled.

If you don't state the grounds, you've got to say objection. Here's a objection, highest and best evidence. Um, just there's a million objections and every lawyer should not, you ever seen, um, a handyman doesn't even look down, reaches to his tool belt and pulls out the right thing. That's the way you have to be as a trial lawyer. You must know by heart all the objections and all the exceptions to the objections. In other words, even though this is hearsay, which is not admissible because you can't cross-examine under the sixth amendment of our constitution, you have the right to cross-examine witnesses brought in against you and bring your own witnesses if you so choose. That's in the constitution. But if it's

hearsay, that means the babysitter's testifying to what Jennifer told her and Jennifer is not there to cross-examine. That is the basis of hearsay. You can't cross-examine it as you are allowed under the constitution. There are exceptions. one being course of conduct, motive, frame of mind. And I think that's what the state would have relied on if the defense had articulated a grounds for objection, unless they objected in the beginning outside the presence of the jury. What, Mark Sherman? You know, I agree. And then, I mean, you said two, the two defense counsel are very technical, very experienced. So then you have to ask, well, I'm sure they know this, Nancy. So maybe they wanted this to come in. And then you have to think from the defense standpoint, I know there's not a

lot of space on this panel to try to get in the head of defense counsel and ask, where are they going with this? But maybe they're going to the men are dogs there at Nancy. Maybe they want people to believe that Fotis was a dog. Cause at the end of the trial, they might say that Michelle Jones was another victim. And again, I don't know if that's where they're going, but something I've been thinking about a lot. They could.

Yeah. That's the way I would do this. Because I mean, they're stuck with it. They've got to do something with the affair, but I don't buy into your theory that maybe they wanted it to come in because there's plenty of opportunity to bring in Fotis Dulos as a serial cheater. I think maybe one of the reasons they're not objecting every single time, it looks bad in front of the jury

to keep getting overruled, overruled, overruled. It makes you look like you don't know what you're doing because you keep making the same objections and getting overruled. And you don't want the jury to lose confidence. When you stand up and make an objection, unless you're doing it just to throw off the other side and ruin their flow, you can't keep standing up and being wrong. You've got to be right when you stand up and make a big deal of an objection in court. So I'm not sure what their strategy is. We'll see. Let's listen to more of the nanny on the stand. Did she indicate to you whether or not

she planned to confront Mr. Doolis about the affair? Oh yeah. She asked me, well, she told me that she was going to, and she asked me not to mention anything to him or to anyone. So I was in the house the next day and when Fotis arrived too and so when I got to the house she pulled me aside and told me that she spoke to Fotis and he admitted to the affair and that she was going to try and have us be as civil as possible because she opened up more saying that she was no longer in love with Fotis, but she had five kids, so they were going to try and work out what they could. And to Jen Smith, chief investigative reporter for DailyMail.com,

that could have signed her death warrant, staying in the home, staying in the relationship, trying to make it work, only exacerbated what was happening. She stayed in it for the sake of her children. Yeah, she stayed in it for the sake of her children. And then when she did eventually, you know, work up enough courage and strength to leave, she had to do it in secret. I mean, this nanny testified yesterday that she was slowly moving items, you know, clothing, her belongings out of the family home because she didn't want him to notice. She knew that the minute he realized she intended to go through with the divorce,

he was going to lose it. And, you know, she said it will enrage him, I think were the words that were used. This nanny, you know, this isn't the first time she has acted as a witness on, you know, to help Jennifer. During the divorce proceedings, she gave testimony, she gave evidence about the kind of emotional and sometimes physical abuse she witnessed in the home. And she supported Jennifer's claims about how threatening and frightening social abuse really could be. What was her testimony at the prior hearing regarding abuse in the home? She had spoken during, I don't know if it was an in-person hearing or if it was a written statement or a deposition, but during their, you know, acrimonious divorce, she testified about having witnessed them arguing in the home.

She described one particularly worrying incident where she said she, Jennifer and one of the children arguing in the home. She described one particularly worrying incident where she said she, Jennifer, and one of the children were in one room. Jennifer had her back against the door trying to stop Otis from breaking through. He was trying to throw his weight through the door to get to them. So really frightening things.

I mean, Jennifer clearly had good reasons to be afraid of this man. And then Annie's not at all. Nancy, it's Mark. And they even passed legislation because of this very case in Jennifer's plight called Jennifer's Law that addressed coercive control and this kind of pressure and intimidation. It was really groundbreaking. Unfortunately, it had to come out of this trash. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want to hear more of the nanny on the stand.

And we'll circle back to what we're learning about physical abuse in the home prior to Jennifer's death. And Karen Stark, I don't want to lose this thread of thought that the single most dangerous time for a woman leaving a relationship is when she actually decides to go through with it. That and being pregnant. Those are the two times she's most likely to be murdered. More of the nanny. Listen. times she's most likely to be murdered more of the nanny listen and directing your attention now to april 2017 did jennifer make any requests of you as to whether or not you would stay on as the nanny and she asked me um to go with her when she was planning to move and i agreed And I agreed. Where did this conversation take place?

At a coffee shop in Avon, which is the town right next to Farmington. Were you still employed by Forroup at this time? Yes. Why did you decide to go with her? because she was my friend and i trusted her um and i wanted to help her and now you will hear the nanny who sees it all inside the doulos home testify that votus doulos used the one thing against j, his wife, that she feared the most, the loss of her five children. Listen. Did there come a time when Jennifer made a decision to leave Fort Jefferson Crossing? Yes. We were slowly moving things out of her Fort Jefferson house

to a property that her parents owned in Pound Ridge, New York, and to a friend's house in Farmington. Did you ever witness Mr. Dulos make any threats about the children? Yeah. What type of threat did he make to Jennifer? That he would take the kids to Greece and not come back. And did Jennifer ever express her fear to you that that would happen? Yeah, a lot. When was this threat made? Throughout those couple months, so April, May 2017. Did there come a time when Jennifer made a decision to leave Fort Jefferson Crossing?

Yes. We were slowly moving things out of her Fort Jefferson house to a property that her parents owned in Pound Ridge, New York, and to a friend's house in Farmington, things that voters wouldn't really notice being gone. So as Jen Smith told us from Daily Mail, Jennifer was surreptitiously removing items from the home to another house. In her attempt to leave gradually without Fotis Dulos, her husband, noticing. But back to threatening, taking the children away. Karen Stark, this is psychological torture, warfare. And Karen, I have someone very close to me.

This exact thing happened. The husband is Greek and went back home for a vacation with the wife and the children. Once they got there, he announced he had sold the home in New England, sold it and had taken all the passports. So the mother is stuck there with the children, not able to speak Greek. And it took months and months for her to secretly go to pay phones and work out with a relative back in the States. And one day she took the children to go swimming. They left in nothing but their sandals and their swimsuits and t-shirts. And they got on a bus and they got back to the States. It was awful, Karen. Terrible. And it happens. It happens, Karen Stark. So Jennifer's fears were absolutely real. Without a doubt, Nancy, it happens. We hear stories even in the

States where there's a father who takes the kids and sometimes even kills them. So the wife isn't able to have them just to make sure that he's the one that has the children. And she was terrified of him. Think about it. She couldn't just come out and say, I want to leave. I know that you're cheating. I know I need to leave you. She was afraid of them. So she was slowly taking things out in such a vulnerable position. That's why you have to be so careful when you have children and you say that you're leaving because that's when men get to be most outraged, that kind of man who's possessive and controlling. Same thing with pregnancy. They sometimes are just not able to deal with the idea that your wife will be sharing her love and affection with

someone else. And then you're really in danger and you have to be careful. Just imagine, Jennifer, just about a month before her death, you know, trying to figure out how to navigate this horrible situation. There's so much more that the nanny said on the stand, but I also want you to hear testimony from another, what I believe to be integral witness, Lieutenant Aaron Littonrow on the stand. Listen to what he had to say about blood evidence. Now, remember, he's finding blood evidence the same day that the nanny notices Jennifer's teacup still full of tea and her breakfast granola bar still sitting there. She never finished the tea and she never ate the granola bar. That's what she had every morning for breakfast.

And it's sitting out. So what happened? Listen to the lieutenant. While we waited, I looked at the vehicle and noticed that there was what appeared to be red blood on the front of that vehicle. Can you please describe what you saw? A red mark on the grille area of the vehicle. And again, it drew my attention because it didn't match the color of the grill, didn't match the color of the vehicle. Was there any damage to the vehicle? No, we did not. We looked at the vehicle, did not observe any damage. Initially, Officer Blank and myself discussed

it possibly could be a deer strike in the roadway. And again, there was no hair. There was no damage indicating any such collision with a deer. Believe you me, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, when you hit a deer, your car is damaged. Yes, it is. We, you know, down in the south, we make a sport of it almost. They're everywhere. They're like cockroaches. And so we have extensive experience.

And even up there, you know, there's a huge whitetail population. They're aware of what it looks like, the external damage. And you'll have tufts of hair, animal hair that are caught in the grill many times with a center mass strike on one of these animals. There's nothing to kind of frame this like that. So you're thinking about the dynamic within that garage. And look, I got to give a tip of the cap to Daily Mail real quick because they put an image up, Nancy, that is a real big tell here. There's an image that they are referencing as from the floor of the garage.

We're not talking about the car here, but the floor of the garage. We're not talking about the car here, but the floor of the garage. And the reason I find this so fascinating is that this is what we would refer to as a dynamic bloodstain deposition. And what that means is that there is actual movement with this blood. It's not just like free falling through the air. It is something that has been generated either off of impact or cast off. And the beauty of what this is telling us, I think, is that coupled with other blood evidence that may have been on the floor of that garage, this looks like what would be categorized, in my opinion at least, as low velocity, low velocity cast off to me. It's kind of teardrop shape. And as that teardrop narrows, just imagine that, and it comes to kind

of a point that gives you an idea about directionality. You know, how was this blood flying through the air when it struck the surface? And in this particular case, there's really no other way to explain this other than there was an attack, I think at least, that probably took place or the continuance of an attack that took place on the floor of this garage. Perhaps as she is laying down, maybe being beaten about the head, And this blood is being blown out away from the center point of impact. It's a real big tell. And as the trial goes on, I'm going to be fascinated to see what else is revealed relative to the blood evidence itself. Because, you know, look, Nancy, as you well know, we don't have a body. The blood is what we have.

You're hearing the testimony of the lieutenant, but how did he get there? So, Jen Smith, we are hearing the lieutenant describing the blood in the garage, the nannies describing the tea in the granola bar, but what led the cops to be at Jennifer Dulos' home? Because she's already moved out by this time she's moved out. This is not the home she shares with Fotis Dulos. So what brought the cops there? So this is May 24th, 2019, the day that she, you know, air quotes, vanishes.

What had happened that day was she dropped the kids off at school at around 8 a.m. She then returned home at 8.05 a.m. That's the last time anybody saw her. Now the nanny, Lauren Almeida, enters the home. Soon afterwards, that morning, notices the purse, the tea, the granola bar, but no sign of Jennifer. She had planned already to drive into New York City where Jennifer was scheduled to have two doctor's appointments, neither of which she made that day. So eventually, as she's becoming increasingly concerned, she's not heard from her boss, Jennifer Dulos, the nanny in New York, goes to Jennifer's mother's house and says, you know, we've still not heard from her. She's missed these appointments. That evening is when the nanny and another friend of Jennifer Doolittle's call 911 and say, we're very concerned. We believe she's missing. That was the reason the police ended up at the home that night on the day that we believe, you know, the murder took place in the home. So that's how they got there. Friends noticed that she missed appointments. She couldn't be reached

and she missed those doctor's appointments. The nanny knew, again, something was horribly wrong. Now, in addition to just testifying to what he sees there, there is also something that is priceless. Body cam footage. Listen. On the very first day of Michelle Troconis' trial, the jury watched 20 minutes of police body camera footage of the scene in the first few minutes of the investigation. The footage shows Lieutenant Aaron Latoro and Officer Black of the New Cannon Police Department as they walk through the home, focusing on parts of the garage where officers believe they see what appears to be bloodstains on the floor and on a black SUV. On the first day of Michelle Triconis' trial, the jury watches video from police body cam footage that shows officers looking through Jennifer Dulos' purse. The nanny, Lauren Almeida, lets police know it's unusual for Dulos' purse to be in the house when she isn't home. Police find keys to Jennifer's Chevrolet SUV, but the car is not in the garage or in the driveway. As police begin the search

for Jennifer Dulos, they also start looking for her Chevy SUV. You know, Joe Scott Morgan and Lisa Daddio joining us to Joe Scott Morgan. The defense tried a very feeble cross-examination regarding the blood evidence by claiming that, hey, a lot of things show up with luminol, like rust. How do I know that wasn't rust? And they list a few other things that show up when you spray luminol. You know what? They're right.

But rust doesn't look like blood. The photos clearly show that it's blood. It's, as you said, cast off, it's spatter. There is blood that looks like a teardrop, which shows you a directional as to where the blood was coming from, the direction. That's not rust. Does it make the lawyers look like idiots to try to, I mean, anybody that watches TV knows about Luminol. Yeah, I don't know that it makes them look like idiots, Nancy. You know, it's a defense attorney. They're doing what they have to do.

But, you know, something that's more telling, I think, to me, all right, than than what the bloodstain or what the lieutenant was testifying to. And going back to the nanny, this is very compelling to me. We have kind of an adage in forensics and specifically forensic pathology where a forensic pathologist will, absent a body, they'll look at a volume of blood and they'll say, okay, judging by this amount of blood at the scene, this is incompatible with life. Okay. So if you've got this much blood, then this person's no longer in the land of living, even absent of body.

And what's so compelling about what the nanny had said, Nancy, is that the night before she had restocked on these paper towels and she had talked, I think they had like 12, like 12, 12 rolls. She went to get some, there were only two left. So how, how in the hell do you go through 10 rolls of paper towels in one day? That to me gives an indication of some type of cleanup effort perhaps, and a large, a large area potentially of blood that was cleaned up. And she's not going to, you know, the nanny's not going to take notice of it. She's going about her everyday life. You know, she sees the tea.

She sees, you know, whatever is left behind. She's not, who thinks about blood as a nanny? But, you know, that, I think, is key here, that even though we're absent the paper towels and, obviously, the blood that might be going along with it, it still leaves a big question mark, and it's certainly something that's going to come to the attention, hopefully, of the jury. Lisa Daddio joining us, former police lieutenant in this jurisdiction of Connecticut. Lisa is talking about the paper towels. I guess they bought them in bulk, you know, like 12 at a time. Isn't it interesting, Lisa, what a witness may notice that a cop or

others, outsiders outside the home would not notice? I just thought of an example. When my twins go to school every morning, Lucy always shuts her door and John David always leaves his open, always. My husband has a favorite belt he wears when he wears shorts, you know, like khaki shorts. And then he's got another belt that he likes to wear when he wears long pants. And it's been for years. So if I see one belt, then I already know he's wearing the other outfit. You know, if I see the, I'm trying to say if I see the belt he wears with shorts, I know that somewhere in this world

he's wearing long pants. Does that make any sense? So what I'm trying to say is people are predictable because they do the same things over and over and over. And when this nanny says there's 10 rolls of paper towels missing,

that's a big deal. And let's not forget, the nanny knows intimately how the family operates on a daily basis because she's there all the time. So while, you know, now it's easy to say, well, why didn't she realize that right away or whatever? You know, obviously she doesn't know Jennifer's missing at this point. So she's not going to say, hey, was there a really big spill where you went through 10 rolls of paper towels? Because she can't have that conversation with anybody. But she makes a kind of subconscious note that the paper towels are missing. Oh, the cup of tea is here.

Oh, you know, the granola bar is there. Oh, her pocketbook. Like that's why after or during an investigation and especially in this case, obviously, asking people who know the family, in this case, the nanny who knows the family better than anybody other than the family members, you know, because she's there all the time. You're right, Lisa Daddio. Mark Sherman is joining us, a veteran trial lawyer who has been joining us from the courthouse. Mark, I found it very unusual that nobody gave an opening statement. So are opening statements not required? Are they allowed, just not required in that jurisdiction? They're not permitted, actually. You can only do it upon motion. And it's just been one of those things in Connecticut that? They're not permitted, actually. You can only do it upon motion. And it's just been one of those things in Connecticut that we've never done in

criminal cases. We have our individual jury selection where we get to interview jurors for hours one-on-one. That's a very unique thing to Connecticut. And we don't get to do open statements. Pros and cons, obviously. We don't, you know, defense attorneys are concerned we preview evidence that we can't deliver on. But in a big case like this, it's going six weeks. I think just to put some themes out there, like the state would be men or dogs, that kind of stuff would really, really help bring some themes across, you know, the multi-month trial. Well, Mark, when I practiced as a Fed and as a state violent felony prosecutor, we gave opening statements and we had individual voidaire where you individually speak to gerards. So I'm very curious why in the world you wouldn't have opening statements.

But, hey, that's the local rule. So be it. I'm more concerned with the evidence. Karen Stark, what do you make of what you've heard? Well, Nancy, I mean, it seems it seems pretty clear to me that she's been murdered. This this keeps coming up. I think that they're doing actually a really good job of putting the nanny on the stand because who knew her better than this person that helped her with five children and was friends with her. And from that testimony, I can tell anyway that something awful has occurred in that home. And also to you, Jen Smith, what happens now? Well, we're back in court, Nancy.

We're expecting some, hopefully some more testimony from the nanny. The court is being a little bit actually opaque in saying who's up every day and what exactly we're going to hear. So we don't have a detailed run through of it yet. But we are also expecting some form of discussion

about DNA evidence. Now, we don't know if that's pertaining to the blood or the trash bags or anything else. But it is something that Michelle Draconis' lawyers do not want to be brought up. I bet they don't.

I guess that DNA is the DNA from the 30 stops where Fotis Dulos threw away Jennifer's dirty clothing, rags, sponges, I think maybe even a mop, all over town in different receptacles. And the mistress now on trial claims she was on her cell phone the whole time and had no idea what was happening. Testimony is resuming. We wait as it unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.