Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - The Noura Jackson case: 'Stranger to the Truth'

Episode Date: July 31, 2017

Noura Jackson was 18 when her mother was fatally stabbed 50 times in her Memphis home and she was 30 when she walked out of a Tennessee prison a year after the state Supreme Court overturned her second-degree murder conviction. Nancy Grace talks with Lisa Hickman, who wrote "Stranger to the Truth," a book exploring Jackson's sensational case. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Is she breathing? No, she's not breathing. She's not breathing. She's not breathing. We have help on the way. We're going to help your mother. It's not me. Somebody go help me right now. Imagine coming home in the evening and you call out, Hey, where is everybody? Anybody home?

And you walk through the home. You walk through your house. You know it by heart. You don't have to turn on all the lights, and you look and you look from room to room, nobody's there, until you get to your mom's room, and you find your mom, and you find out why she's not answering, and why she didn't come to the door. She's dead, covered in blood, naked, lying on her bed. Clearly, a horrible, horrible struggle has occurred. And the killer has rammed a waste basket over her head, and you can't even process it. A waste basket over her head.

And you can't even process it. This is a story of Nora Jackson. A girl who finds her mother dead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What happened to Jennifer? What happened to Nora's mom? The mystery goes on. I want to expose the facts as we know them. And joining me,

a very special guest. I want you to meet her. Lisa Hickman has written the book, literally written the book, on this murder mystery, Stranger to Truth. And it is awesome. First I heard about it. Then I got it on Amazon.com. And I read it immediately and couldn't put it down. I mean, even the cover is captivating to me. Even the cover. Lisa, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. I mean, that's an awesome book, the way you compilated all the facts. What's interesting to me is I described just then

the way Nora came in. Nora Jackson came in and found her mother. But actually that night, there's a little more to the story of her coming in. Also with me, the Duke, Alan Duke, joining me out of L.A. Alan, she comes home, she's been out with her friends that night, and I'm talking about the daughter, Nora. And it's spelled N-O-U-R-A. That's Nora, correct? Because sometimes I've heard her the daughter, Nora. And it's spelled N-O-U-R-A. That's Nora, correct? Because sometimes I've heard her pronounce Nora.

Yes. Lisa, is it Nora or Nora? Nora. The pronunciation is the same, it's just a slightly different spelling. Gotcha. So she had been out with her friends that night, Alan, and they had been to some Italian festival.

They live in the Memphis area. And they had been out partying and drinking and having a good time. So she gets home and immediately perceives that there has been a burglary, that something's not right with the entryway. Did you get that part, Alan? She didn't just walk in.

She knew immediately that the home had been burglarized. Did you see that point? Yes, something didn't seem right in. She knew immediately that the home had been burglarized. Did you see that point? Yes, something didn't seem right, according to what she said. What was it, Lisa? So when she comes home, she doesn't just walk in and nobody answers. It's not exactly how it happened. When she drove in, how did she know someone had been in the home? I think the glass, there was glass all over the kitchen floor.

And I believe that's what the first thing that let her know something was amiss. She came in. That's right. There was glass. There was one of those doors. Between the garage and the kitchen. That you could, I think, break through and reach in and unlock it. Right there, that indicates very strongly it's someone that knows the family. It could be a neighbor. It could be a delivery person because that door was not visible from outside. You had to know to get into the garage and there was something hinky about the lock. He had to know how to do it. Am I right on that?

Am I remembering correctly? Yeah, they described it as a secret butterfly lock that you would have had to have reached your arm through the hole that was in the glass and unlock it, and you would have had to have known it was there to even have any idea that's what you would do. So it was a very peculiar place. Question.

Yes. The glass, the glass. The glass was on the kitchen floor, and it was a pretty defined round hole in the center pane of that door. Yeah, where somebody punched through. Yes. Okay, all right. So she comes in and she immediately sees that has happened. Then where does she go, Lisa? And I believe she went down the hallway to toward her mother's bedroom and that was, of course, when she discovered her mother's body.

And it was twilight, so it was such early morning hours, it was sort of semi-dark in the house. Now, didn't she run to a neighbor and say, I think someone's broken in our house, and the neighbor comes with her? Yes, after she actually been in her mother's bedroom, she ran across the street and asked them to, was screaming at their front door, and asked them to help her that there had been an intruder in their house. And that's when the neighbor grabbed his gun and, you know, walked ahead of her for a while across the street, and then she actually ran in in front of him. That was a real problem for the... Wait a minute, she...

Got in front of the neighbor who had the gun. That she ran in front of him. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So they go in and they find the mom. Alan, the description of the crime scene is gruesome. Please describe. The photos that I saw, blood, the mother laying with no clothing on the bed, and just an awful lot of blood. Is that the best way to say it, Lisa?

Yes. lot of blood. Is that the best way to say it, Lisa? Yes, and she actually was on the floor when she was found at the footbed or toward the bottom of the bed, but on the floor, and her head was close to the door. Should it immediately have been apparent that she had been stabbed, or could it have been you would assume that she had just been shot, or was that obvious? Well, I think anybody who just glanced in that room would have just seen all the blood, and they would not have had any idea if she'd been stabbed or shot. There's just blood everywhere, so I wouldn't say it would be immediately apparent. No. As a matter of fact, it turns out the mom has been stabbed nearly 30 times. That's a lot. All around the torso, neck, face. Jennifer just completely, completely destroyed. Everything about her is covered in stabs, including defensive stabs.

Now, what has always intrigued me is the fact that a wicker basket had been shoved down over her head, over her face, Lisa. Right. And a lot of, I mean, that just made it such a personal crime that, you know, whoever had committed this did not want to see her, and her eyes were open. She was just 39 years old. 39 years old. 39 years old. Just absolutely beautiful, stunning, vivacious, a successful bond trader. You can't be an idiot to do that.

And a triathlete. This is the mother, the 39-year-old mother found stabbed dead. And I mentioned 30 times. It was more like 50 times. 50 stab wounds.. 50 stab wounds. Over 50 stab wounds. There were so many stab wounds, they could not count them after a certain point because many of them overlapped each other.

And the body was such a mess. They know that it was over 50 stab wounds. At that point, what happens to Nora? Because her dad's already dead. Her dad was shot, let's see, about a year before that. Nazmi was his name. Now, the dad and Jennifer had been living apart for a period of time, several years. They were estr estranged he was a successful business owner he owned several businesses in the Memphis area and he was at one of them one night and there was a security surveillance camera and he's then he's in there and you can see him and an unknown assailant comes in manages manages to avoid the security camera, shoots him down

execution style. You can't tell who the person was and leaves. There is no attack. There is no theft, no burglary, nothing. They come in, shoot him dead and leave Then, about a year later, Jennifer is murdered. So this girl is left without either a parent, Alan. And a little bit of an inheritance, too. Why do you say things like that? A little bit of an inheritance? It's over a million dollars. That's not an awful lot of money.

I mean, it's not like... Maybe to an 18-year-old it might seem like it. You told me that your dad worked for the railroad, as did mine. So I don't know what planet you're living on, but a million dollars is a lot of money, Alan. Earth to Alan. Well. Before we talk about the inheritance, that night, Lisa, what happened to Nora? Where did she go? Well, by the time

her neighbors had been over and they called the first responder, it was close to early morning. And she sat on the front curb and talked with the neighbors. And then eventually some friends showed up and picked her up, and she left with him and drove around. And she was on and off at the crime scene because there were times when, you know, she was confronted by a lot of people showing up, relatives and friends of her mother, and they would have, know various conversations isn't it true that she admitted that she was drinking and smoking pot that night she did admit that yes she'd been out and you know so she probably needed a couple of hours to sober up yes um she did eventually of course ride downtown with Detective Connie Justice.

And she actually fell asleep on the ride downtown. She was exhausted. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. She fell asleep? Yes. In the car. Okay, I'm projecting, Lisa. I know I'm projecting.

And that's not good when you're analyzing a crime or a crime scene. But I remember too distinctly after my fiancé was murdered, there was no falling asleep. The shock and the just trying to grasp and understand what was happening there was no sleeping I remember even into the night like one or two o'clock in the morning um our family doctor finally brought over some kind of sedative right so I could go to sleep. It didn't work. I was just so strung out. So she fell asleep in the police car after finding her mother's dead body? She did. Okay, that's just weird. When did they notice the big cut on her hand? They noticed that early and um they took photographs of it um when she was

downtown with um detective justice and um like you know she had a she had for that a variety of different stories as to how the cut occurred what we were talking about lisa hickman, author of Stranger to the Truth about the Jennifer Jackson murder, is the daughter had a huge cut on her hand that cops had to notice. How did she explain that away? Well, it was actually covered with some adhesive tape by the time they were at the police station. And it was never examined underneath the tape. And she said that people were breaking beer bottles at the Italian festival and that she tripped and cut it on one of the broken beer bottles. And that's what she told Detective Justice. Did any of her friends recall her tripping and cutting her hand?

Any of the friends she was with that night? No, they did not. Well, they really didn't have time to focus on her tripping on getting cut with a beer bottle because of the mom, Jennifer's boyfriend, this on-again, off-again boyfriend she had, had called the mom that very night they had a very volatile relationship what was their relationship about the one the mother Jennifer had been dating this guy what do we know about him well he's a Methodist minister and at this point in their relationship just before the

murder occurred he was quite insistent that they get married. He wanted to take it to the next level, and she was hesitant to do that. Isn't that pushing the nuclear button? I mean, getting married? What was the rush? For him, apparently, it was extremely important. And Jennifer, having been married and divorced twice by then, was reluctant to get married and seemed fairly content to keep things as they were. So that led to a number of breaking up and know, breaking up and getting back together.

And that was the scenario at the time. She had called him and wanted to drive to, he was in Jackson, Tennessee, drive and see him for his birthday. And he was lukewarm to know about that idea. And that very night, he called her. her yeah he was having none of it it was either get married or i guess face his anger he had tried and tried to get her to get married she wouldn't do it that night he called her what was his excuse for calling her what did he say well they never spoke um she didn't get the call didn't

take the call and won't really never know what he was calling about that was about midnight but he gave a story about why he called didn't he say it was an accident like a pocket dial he said he decided that it was too late to be calling, and he hung up. He was afraid she might be asleep. Okay. Right. So at what time did they place the time of death as best as they could, Lisa? I believe it was quite broad.

I want to say between 1 and 3 a.m. It was quite a window of time. And what time was his phone call? Wasn't his phone call around 12? Yes, his phone call was around 12. So just before the attack, he's calling her, and he lived out of town, right? Yes, he was in Jackson, Tennessee.

Interesting. I mean, some would argue, some would hypothesize that he was calling to make sure she was at home before he came over. That could be a very compelling argument. So police, of course, Alan, look at the boyfriend, the ex, the current spouse. That's where they start every investigation because of statistics. Typically, it's your partner that kills you. Sad, but true.

So they start looking at this guy, Methodist minister, right? Yeah, I'm wondering why they weren't looking at the dead former husband, Nazmi, who killed him. Because if just months earlier or a year earlier one spouse is murdered and then another one is don't you just think they might be connected did they Lisa did they ever try to connect those two killings I do believe they they looked into that and um they just met there was just no evidence that um you know connected the murders well they couldn't find any evidence because they never knew alan who killed nasmi that still remains a mystery they they have the killer on video they have well they have it in missy beavers too but that doesn't mean they've got him in jail for pete's sake they don't know they don't know who did it well that's true but

the maybe there was some connection i'm just saying and maybe they don't have who did it. Well, that's true. But maybe there was some connection, I'm just saying, and maybe they don't have a way of knowing that. Well, I agree with you on that, Alan. I agree. I mean, it's just too coincidental that the dad is murdered. There's no doubt whether it was an accident. And the mother is murdered shortly thereafter, and it's no accident. They clearly were both victims of homicide.

That's just, what, one in a million? The reason we don't know who murdered Nozmi, Lisa Hickman, can you see the perp? You can never see the perp's face in the shooting death. Correct. Are they disguised, or do they just keep their face away from the camera? Right, just had good knowledge of where the cameras were placed and able to avoid them. Okay, right there, knew how to avoid the surveillance cameras.

Okay, so we've got the killer of Nazmi as a potential suspect. We have the boyfriend who called her that night, some would argue, to make sure she was home before he showed up. There is a break-in. Now, was there any evidence of a sex attack on Jennifer? No, there was not. Although she was naked, that's true. Yes, and there was a used condom in the room, but nothing that linked that to Jennifer. Well, okay, wait a minute.

Wait, wait, wait. So she's in her bedroom naked, and there's a used condom, and they don't think there was a sex attack? The medical examiner, you know, ruled that there was not. Oh, I see. The examiner placed the time of death between 1230 a.m. and 510 a.m. That was very broad. So what Lisa Hickman is saying in a very delicate manner is that regardless of her being in her bedroom completely naked and there was a used condom in there. If the medical examiner did a rape kit and there's no evidence on the body, then either all of that was left from another incident or it was staged. choices because I'm telling you, even I, looking under a microscope, can tell the difference as to whether there's any indication sperm is there. It's very clear under a microscope. So if the ME

says no sex activity, the ME is right. So forget about that. Now that leads me to another question. Was anything stolen from the home, Lisa? I believe there were a few items missing. Some eventually turned up in a bin in the sunroom. I think her driver's license. But as far as any valuables, no. Her driver's license in a bin? I didn't know that.

Jennifer's driver's license. When you say bin, are you talking about a trash can? No, no, just like a storage container. Some stuff was just kind of strewn around. Okay, I find that very odd. There's no sex attack. Nothing is stolen. No jewelry, no money, no DVD player, nothing like that.

And her driver's license is displaced. Okay. I want to get back to where Nora was that night. She's saying she's at the Italian festival. That's confirmed. I still don't. Did anybody confirm her falling on the beer bottle? No, no one did that. That was not confirmed. I still don't, did anybody confirm her falling on the beer bottle? No, no one did that. That was not confirmed. All right. What can you tell me about her being at a Walgreens

buying bandages that night, Lisa? Right. That was, um, that was all caught on surveillance. And she just walked in, of course, and, you know, asked the fellow checking out, first of all, for some paper towels. And he gave her some, and she used those on her hand and then bought a number of medical supplies. What time was that, Lisa? I believe that was around 2 a.m. and she'd, you know, had been on her phone pretty often on all night basically except for a period of time when it was quiet and yes, went into Walgreens for these. Boy, you're putting it, you're certainly putting perfume on the pig. She lived on the cell phone. She was on it constantly.

But then there was a period of time between, let's say, like one and three, she went totally quiet, not one single phone call. There was an odd period of time she was not on the phone and then she picked right back up again and during this time i think it's when she spotted on surveillance video at the pharmacy buying bandages so that was around one o'clock you're saying um right right in there, between 1 and 2. Okay, so you know what was interesting, Alan, about when she went to the pharmacy to get bandages? What the pharmacy employee said, did you see that? I saw the surveillance video that showed she was obviously bleeding

and had a bandage on her hand. Okay, there's a little bit more to it. The employee said it was openly bleeding. And what I mean by that is it had just happened unless she re-injured it and it started bleeding again. Lisa, what did she say at the pharmacy as to what happened to her hand? No, I don't remember exactly to tell you the truth, if she gave any kind of an explanation

for it or not. The hand, she told her on-and-off boyfriend, Perry, that she cut it in her house chasing her kitten. She told her Aunt Grace she cut it. She burned it making macaroni and cheese. There are just a number of different stories about the cut on her hand. Okay, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What happened to falling on the beer bottle? That was one of the stories too. There's several different accounts for how the cut occurred alan are you hearing this mr innocent until proven guilty well at least oj simpson stuck to the story about how he cut his hand at least we have that but with that similarity but you would think another broken glass in the middle of consumption of alcohol right right exactly so. So I guess I do have to give that to Simpson.

He did stick with his story. Nora Jackson has multiple stories. Now that is when I got concerned about Nora Jackson. First of all, knowing about that hinky lock and how to get in. That's why I was asking you about the glass. Was it on the kitchen floor or the garage floor? That would tell me which way the intruder, from which angle they were punching the glass. Then the fact that the wastebasket was put over the mom's face. A random killer doesn't take time to do that. They hit it and quit it. They're gone.

They don't care about the victim looking at them. No sex attack, nothing stolen, and now this cut on her hand. This is not typically, if you look at statistics, a female crime. This is statistically not committed by a woman. Also, matricide or killing your mother, less than one percent of all homicides, less than one percent is the murder of your own mother so trying to pin this on Nora Jackson is statistically improbable but then enter the various stories she gives I mean to me it was unlikely that you happened to fall on a broken beer bottle number one one. But number two, I mean, to me, you'd hit your knees first. Just to me, that's an unlikely scenario, but I could go with it. But changing the story, that is a problem. I want to go through her changing stories again. Who did she tell what, Lisa? She told Perry, her, as I said, her on and off again, boyfriend,

she was chasing her kitty. She picked up a little kitten that day from a neighbor who was giving them away and cut it on the glass in the kitchen floor. And then she told her Aunt Grace that she burned it making macaroni and cheese. And then, of course, the police officer, she told people that there was broken glass at the Italian festival. And she fell and cut it on that. I used to go through this with defense attorneys in court all the time. The fact that they would argue, well, your witnesses changed their story. And I would argue back, no, Alan, they haven't changed their story. They have embellished their story. They've added to the story because they're finally being asked the right questions. They were

never asked these questions before. There's a big difference, Alan, in changing your story and adding to your story. Once you start changing your story, you're in hot water, Alan. But did she only tell one story to police? To the police, yes. Yes. I believe to the police it was. And that's what's relevant. What do you mean that's what's relevant. What do you mean that's what's relevant? I mean, well, I mean, to investigators, she did not tell multiple stories.

And this boyfriend, I mean, are there reasons we wouldn't trust necessarily his memory? Well, I don't know. He was partying, too, but I don't know about his memory. Okay, now wait a minute. You're saying because he had been drinking that night, he didn't remember what she said about the wound to her hand? Well... Are you trying to suggest he did it? He'd been using drugs, right? He'd been using drugs, right?

Yes, he did. He was using ecstasy that night. There you go. Okay, so who did she tell about the kitten? Who was that, Lisa? Okay, that fellow's name is Perry, and he was on-again, off-again boyfriend. Andrew, the individual we were talking about earlier, he was also someone, he was a friend, but at times they had more of a relationship than a friendship. So I've got three stories so far.

What, Lisa? He described on the witness stand, friends with benefits was how he described his relationship to Nora. Andrew Hamrick. During her police interrogation, Nora Jackson says she was out at the Italian festival that night. She went to two parties after that at friends' homes. At 12.46 a.m., she tells police she went to a gas station to buy cigarettes,

then went to another friend's home at 3 30 a.m there's a big gap right there coincidentally at the time her mother is murdered 12 46 a.m she's buying cigarettes 3 30 a.m she's at a friend's house that's a two and a half hour, two hour and 45 minute gap. Then at 4 20 a.m. she buys gas and heads home. Cops point out no activity on her cell phone between 1 and 3 a.m. She forgot to tell police she went to a Walgreens at 4 a.m. The surveillance video shows she asked a cashier for a paper towel, not just to buy Band-Aids. She has to get a paper towel to stop the bleeding from her hand.

Then she buys bandages and a bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Okay, cops believe Jennifer was murdered between 1 and 4 a.m. Several prosecution witnesses state that Nora gave them different excuses from broken glass, she told one person a barbed wire, another person cooking mac and cheese, and another person says she said a cat scratched her a kitten scratched her while she was trying to get it out of the garage hmm okay it's starting to look bad

for her take a listen judge for yourself here is Nora Jackson's 911 call. Please help me. Ma'am, ma'am, was anyone shot? No, no, there's blood everywhere. Please, I need a police officer. Okay, ma'am, how old is your mother? She's 39 years old. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, please, please help me. Please, anybody.

Okay, listen to me, ma'am. I need you to calm down, okay, so we can help your mother. Okay? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm not breathing. Okay, listen to me. Did you see what happened?

No. I just got home. Did someone broke into your home? Yes, I was going to get my kitten out of the kitchen and there's glass everywhere. Please send an ambulance. Please send an ambulance. Okay, listen. Please send an ambulance. We have help on the way. We're going to help your mother.

Please don't leave. Don't leave her with me right now. Ma'am, I need you to calm down so we can help her, okay? Prosecutors say that Nora Jackson murdered her mother to get access to money. I'm talking about a lot of money. In fact, Nora's uncle, Eric Sherwood, Jennifer's brother, states he heard Nora and her mother discussing the mom's assets and life insurance policies just one week before his sister is found stabbed dead. Alan, you have questions, as do I, about some evidence found at the scene. What's your concern? Well, why didn't they test the blonde hair found in the grasp of the mom? Nora didn't have blonde hair. Whose hair was that? I mean, did they not want to know? This reminds me so much

of the OJ Simpson crime scene in that there should be a lot of evidence around footprints, DNA from the perpetrator, that kind of thing. But that's completely absent from this crime scene. Is she so brilliant in cleaning up? And did she stage the blonde hair in her mother's grasp? Why didn't they test it and find out? Lisa, what do we know about that? I don't know why they didn't test it, and that's just been a nagging question. The judge said he offered the money to actually have that test performed to the defense team, and they chose not to test the blonde hairs.

But is it their job to do that? Oh, whoa. You're so right about that. Hold on, Alan. Before you start crying and sobbing about a hair that wasn't tested, I agree with you. It's the prosecution who has to do that. Wait a minute. The prosecution doesn't have to do anything. The prosecution has to carry a burden. and they didn't test the hair. Now if it

were me I would have wanted the hair tested but let me point out that the mom had her hair bleached blonde and the daughter had her hair bleached blonde. I don't know if it was blonde at the time though but they both had put highlights in their hair. And it's interesting to me that neither side wanted to test the hair. So the defense could have had it tested for free, right? They can ask for tests just like the state does. The state doesn't have to do that. And if the defense wanted it tested, they could have it tested. I've got another issue. The phone calls around 3.18 a.m. Nora Jackson starts using her phone again.

She calls a friend named Eric Whitaker, asking him, wanting to come over to his house and hang out. This is at 3.18 in the morning. He agreed. She drove to his house, but when she got there, he was just leaving by the time she got there. So they only chatted for two or three minutes and she left. All right. Next 4 0 1 a.m. about one hour before she calls 9 1 911. That's when she goes to Walgreens. But there's another phone call. Isn't there a phone call to a friend around 1259? That's 1 a.m. in the morning. A friend of Nora's gets a hang-up from Nora's home phone where the mother is murdered we don't know whether it was nor that made the call but just 10 minutes later 109 she calls from her cell phone and leaves a voicemail

but she says she wasn't home yeah is that? The friend, you know, who received the phone call from the landline just said that there's no way that Jennifer would be calling him and that Nora always called his cell phone. But there was a phone call from the Jackson home landline at that time. I mean, Alan, has my mother ever called you? No, she's never done that. Okay, so don't you think it would be a little odd for Nora to now argue it was her mother calling her friend at 1 o'clock in the morning? It had to be her. She's at home at the time of the murder, Alan.

If I'm looking for my daughter at one o'clock in the morning, I might call one of her friends. I probably have done that before. So that's not unusual. But the fact that she called on us... She had never called before, ever. She had not even called Nora looking for Nora

according to the phone records. Don't you think if she was looking for Nora, she'd call Nora first? Well, that is unusual. Instead of a friend she doesn't even know. I'll give you that. But I think it's more unusual, believe it or not, that there's no DNA evidence linking this Nora to the crime scene.

Why would there be? There was no sex attack. Blood. Dripping blood. Where are her bloody clothes? You can't stab somebody 50 times and not get blood on you. Let's talk about clothes because Nora changed her clothes. She began wearing immediately, including at the funeral, long sleeves and would then

hold the sleeves over her hands with her fingers up under the sleeves. I'm glad you brought that up, Alan. Thank you. So the clothes, she did change her clothes that evening, but you're right. The defense points out the lack of forensic evidence and evidence that points away from Nora. Beside the cut on her hand, no bruises or any other injuries. even her manicured nails were not chipped nora's blood was not found at the scene and the mother had blonde hair in her hand now preliminary tests excluded nora as the source of those hairs. But no one tested it any further. There was no DNA known from anyone on the victim's pillow or the blood-soaked bed sheet. So you're right. The DNA does not help the state at all.

Why would somebody go out and start partying at 4 o'clock in the morning, Alan? It's hard for me to relate to that at this age, but when I was 18 years old, I did that. I did that. I didn't attack anybody. Well, I didn't. That's you. That's just me.

There's no place to go out where you're from. Where we left off, we were talking about that. You're right about that. Go to a bonfire? Thank you. Question regarding the money. As we speak, Nora Jackson is waging a battle to get her mother's over $1 million estate. Just so you know, Nora Jackson was convicted in her mother's murder.

But as fate would have it, the prosecution failed to turn over a piece of evidence, and the whole thing was reversed. She was set free. She then pled guilty under an alfred plea which means i don't admit and i don't deny but i'm pleading guilty her lawyers say the reason she did that is to avoid any more jail time nora jackson is walking free today the death of her father remains unsolved, his murder. And she is mounting a battle for her mother's estate. Lisa, is that true? That is true, but I believe they have reached a private confidential agreement on the money.

What's the amount of the estate? It was a million and a half, and the siblings, Jennifer's two sisters and brother, would have received that money and had received it, but they did reach an agreement with Nora. There was some sort of a settlement that was confidential there. So because of her conviction, Jennifer's siblings got the money, and then they had to reach a settlement to give a portion of it to Nora?

Is that what you believe happened? They didn't have to. They could have had a civil trial, and they had filed the paperwork for that because you have to do that within one year of the murder. But instead of proceeding with that civil trial, they

chose to reach an agreement with Nora. Thank you for being with us. Lisa Hickman, author of Stranger to the Truth on Amazon.com. You can also go to Stranger to the Truth on Amazon.com. You can also go to Stranger to the Truth.com. It has its own website, Nancy Grace Crime Stories. Goodbye, friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is an iHeart Podcast.