Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - The truth about millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and the woman who helped him. Part 1

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

What happened during millionaire perv Jeffrey Epstein's final days? While a famed forensic pathologist claims Epstein's death aligns with homicidal strangulation, officials listed it as a suicide.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: James Shelnutt: 27-years Atlanta Metro Major Case detective, SWAT Officer (RET), Attorney  Bobby Chacon: Former Special Agent FBI, current star of FB Watch series, "Curse of Akakor"   Joe Scott Morgan: Forensics Expert, Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University & author of "Blood Beneath My Feet"  Dr Bethany Marshall: Beverly Hills Psychoanalyst Melissa Cronin: Investigative journalist and author  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Teen girls, underage girls, were flown by private jet along with dignitaries, wealthy and powerful men, to live out their sex fantasies with underage girls. The final days of Jeffrey Epstein culminating in finding him dead in his jail cell. Now all the victims that he molested, basically pimping them out to other men, rich and powerful. Are we going to stand by and let this sort of crime happen right under our noses? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's arrest last week has put the spotlight on a private Caribbean island he owns, one that some have dubbed the Island of Sin. Our Lisa Guerrero traveled to the Virgin Islands for this look.

It's your first look at disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein's private island. The only way to get to the island in the Virgin Islands is by boat. And there it is, Jeffrey Epstein's 70-acre retreat known as Little St. James. And that's not the only name for Little St. James. It's also known as Orgy Island. Their words, not mine, where allegedly teen girls, underage girls, were flown by private jet along with dignitaries, wealthy and powerful men, to live out their sex fantasies with underage girls.

Then, in the wake of that, take a listen to this. Thanks for joining us. We are coming on the air with breaking news. Sources telling ABC News that Jeffrey Epstein has died, an apparent suicide overnight at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan. That is according to three law enforcement sources who gave that information to ABC News.

This is the federal lockup where the multimillionaire was being held while awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges. You're hearing our friends at ABC. That's Whit Johnson before Deborah Norville. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What now?

Epstein escaped over and over because he was rich and powerful, basically using a Florida jail cell as a day camp, allowed to walk free during the day, go to his law office, where young underage girls are seen going in and out like a revolving door. And mysteriously, the logs for those visitors has been lost. Again, I'm Nancy Grace grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us with me an all-star panel to figure out what's next james shelnut with me 27 years metro major case swat officer retired now lawyer bobby chacon former special agent fbi star of facebook watch series, Curse of Akakor.

Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. At DrBethanyMarshall.com. Right now to Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and co-author of Epstein, Dead Men Tell No Tales. You know, it just never ends with this guy, Melissa Cronin. And why is it when it's voiced publicly that there's so much evidence he was murdered behind bars? Why is that poo-pooed, Melissa? I think that there have been so many outrageous revelations from this case that really just

push the bounds of believability. Everything that comes out, people just can't believe that it's actually true that one, the guards, two of them happened to be asleep, two, that the video from that night has been missing or damaged. It's really just every single thing that comes out, it's really harder and harder to believe the official narrative of what happened in this case. There's still so much more that we need to find out. Melissa Cronin, journalist, co-author, Epstein, Dead Men Tell No Tales. You can get it on Amazon. I've already read it. It's bizarre. The facts are bizarre. Everything about Epstein is so hard to believe, but it's true. So much of it, how he got away with years of pedophilia, basically rubbing it in the noses of law enforcement,

flying Clinton and Trump around on his private jet, meeting with Bill Gates. Even Prince Andrew pulled into the web. Big question, Melissa Cronin, where's his pimp, Ghislaine Maxwell, the French aristocrat that lured young women, allegedly, to get molested by Epstein? You know, Nancy, that's probably the most unbelievable thing is why haven't they brought this woman into justice yet?

She would be the person that has the answers that we're looking for, and we haven't they brought this woman into justice yet? She would be the person that has the answers that we're looking for. And we haven't heard a peep from the authorities about what they're actually doing to find her. Now, my sources that I talk to for our book, Epstein's Dead Men Tell No Tales, tell me that they believe Ghislaine is actually living under the protection of the British royal family that Ghislaine knows too much and it's in the best interest of the higher-ups in England that she not spill what she knows about Prince Andrew now hold on wait a minute Melissa Melissa you know what you're an incredible investigative journalist, but you want me to believe that the Queen of England is protecting a pimp? I find it really hard to believe.

But, yes, Prince Andrew is dragged into this whole mess. So I don't get it. Why would they contravene a criminal investigation by the U.S.? You know, Nancy, it's just like you said, it's another of the unbelievable realities of this case. And what we've seen and what we know to be true about the queen is way beyond anything that we've ever seen out of the royal family before. She's actually fired Prince Andrew from his job as a member of the royal family before. She's actually fired Prince Andrew from his job as a member of the royal family. He was kicked out of his palace residence. He's lost his six-figure salary. She's basically sending a message to the world that this is something way beyond

what we normally would see from the royal family. So even though it seems outrageous that they might do something like hide a woman who was the worst camp of young children that we've ever seen in history, this is totally uncharted territory in every sense of the word. So like I said, we still need to know more. But this is what's bugging me, Melissa. This is something that's bugging me. I can't wait to hear what Shilna, Chacon, and Morgan have to say to Dr. Bethany Marshall. It's just a re-victimization of all these little girls.

Because they're trying to smear the girls' reputation. But that's what predators do. They pick the weakest link. I was just saying yesterday, who does the tiger attack? Which gazelle? Not the young, strong one that can run like the wind. The weak one, the pitiful one that's at the edge of the water. The one that they have most likely a chance of catching.

And that is who Epstein targeted. Young girls on the fringe of society. That's who he raped. There's no nice way to say it. He escaped justice, Dr. Bethany, and now Ghislaine Maxwell, his high-class pimp, is on the run. Nothing has happened to her. Why? You know, Nancy, you're right. Think about it. He was worth over $400 million. He had women, underage girls on his island and in his private estates around the world. Once they were sequestered on that island, they could not get off. They couldn't swim to safety. One girl tried to swim to a nearby island.

So think about it. There was this power differential where Ghislaine and Epstein had all the power over them. And just at the moment where the girls finally might have power over them, where they might be able to seek justice, Jeffrey Epstein dies. Ghislaine disappears. It's like they're supposed to have their day in court. And now it has been ripped away from them. And, you know, one-time trauma is one thing. You know, I sometimes see patients in my office who have been victimized once, but when they are re-victimized again and again, especially by the court system, we call it

cumulative trauma. So now these girls are victims of cumulative trauma as they watch this saga unfold, and potentially their perpetrator never, ever, ever brought to justice. So to you, Melissa Cronin, co-author of Epstein, Dead Men Tell, No Tales on Amazon, what was Ghislaine Maxwell's part in Jeffrey Epstein raping so many little girls because girls under age cannot consent to sex. Okay. So there's no such thing as consensual sex with a minor. What was Ghislaine Maxwell's part? And I've had to look that up every time I report to make sure her name is pronounced Ghislaine because it seems to me it should be Ghislaine because it's French. It's not. It's Ghislaine.

Melissa, what was her part in all of this? There are reports she would even troll Central Park trying to basically lure real in draft underage girls for Epstein to rape. Nancy, you know, Epstein was an evil monster, but Ghislaine might have been even worse. Her role with Epstein was, like you said, to prey upon these most vulnerable teen girls. And she was brought into the mix basically so they would lower their guard. guards. It was a lot easier for this beautiful, cosmopolitan, friendly, charming woman to approach these teen girls and kind of try to make them her friend and prey upon their aspirations and

desires to have a better life and kind of say, you could be like me if you come into my world. She was a lot more appealing than, say, you know, this middle-aged man approaching them at the mall. So she really tricked these girls and brought them, you know, acts that were way beyond anything that they should be doing as 16 year olds and really training them to be the sex slaves that Epstein wanted, just ruining their lives from the very moment that she came into contact with them. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're from the New York Times shedding light on Jeffrey Epstein's ties to Wall Street power players, including some of the industry's biggest names.

Joining us now is Kate Kelly, one of the journalists behind this story. Kate, welcome. This has become as salacious and fascinating as opening up a madam's black book. Ooh. I mean, don't you think? I mean, everybody wants to see who is connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Yes, you're absolutely right, Melissa. And we have spent some time, as have many reporters, I'm sure, looking through the infamous Epstein Black Book, which does exist, surfaced around 2015, and a lot of notable Wall Street players are in there.

But our story today focuses on just a handful that seem to have had serious client or business ties to him. Perhaps the most interesting, Leon Black, the co-founder of Apollo Management and CEO now. He entrusted Jeffrey Epstein with some tax and estate planning for himself over a course on and off of about 15 years or so. He also had, for a time, Jeffrey Epstein on his family foundation board, starting in about 2000 and going up through the late aughts. That's just one of many, many names found in Jeffrey Epstein's little black book. It wasn't so little. Names of the rich and powerful. Apparently, between the two of them prince andrew of great

britain and epstein shared about 14 to 15 cell phone numbers numbers where they could always reach each other okay i don't even have that many numbers joseph scott morgan you're the professor of forensics the author of blood beneath my feet i don't professor of forensics, the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. I don't need a forensics expert, sorry Joe Scott, to tell me there's something way wrong with that when these guys have about 14 numbers between them for each other. Why? I don't even have that many numbers for my husband. I think that probably the rationale, it's just like any other kind of criminal enterprise and that's what you can identify it as, Nancy. You have these organized crime people that will have multiple phones because it makes it more difficult for authorities to track them. Trust me, they knew what they were

engaged in. They knew the steps they had to take to kind of insulate themselves, and so they're going to use multiple contact numbers in order to keep anybody that might get a whiff of this off of the scent so that they can traffic in these girls. I'm going to circle back to his death behind bars, Epstein's death behind bars. But in the last hours, we learned that his pimp, his aristocratic French madam, Ghislaine Maxwell's private emails have been hacked. And that's because about 2,000 secret documents have been released, documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. And somehow, because of that release,

there was information in there that allowed hackers to get into Ghislaine Maxwell's private emails. Okay, that's a huge big deal. Melissa Cronin, what does that mean? This could be the thing that cracks open the case. We've already seen some of Ghislaine's communications with Jeffrey Epstein's inner circle in the different phone messages that were revealed through the Florida case. These showed her and Epstein having phone calls with, you know, the highest levels of the rich and famous around the world. So now that her emails have been hacked,

they're out there somewhere, probably on the dark web, and everyone is going to be trying to find them to figure out who exactly she was in contact to before and after his death so that includes the authorities but it could also be a journalist like hopefully me that finds out where she is and who else is helping her stay hidden guys we are also getting reports that Christina Oxenberg, a cousin to British royal family and sister of Catherine Oxenberg, recalled a very unusual encounter with Ghislaine Maxwell

where she, Oxenberg, was invited to a ladies' tea party at Ghislaine Maxwell's home. And when she gets there, Ghislaine Maxwell's home. And when she gets there, Ghislaine is dressed in only her underwear and bra and fanning herself with a copy of Vogue magazine.

You know, I'm in a studio right now with Jackie Howard, and it's all we can do to feed all the pets, the children, the husband, the grandma, the this, the that, to work all day and figure out what happens by the time you're done with all that. And here are these ladies sitting around in their underwear fanning, well it's Ghislaine Maxwell fanning herself with a copy of Vogue. First of all, what do you have to shell out for a copy of Vogue now, like $7.50 or $10. Okay, enjoy that, Ghislaine Maxwell, while you're on the run. Not only that, Ghislaine Maxwell whining on the phone,

asking Oxenberg to tea and whining, I'm poor, poor, inviting her to come to her new home. Now, Oxenberg shows up expecting, you know, something not so great but it was a huge condo on 79th street gillen presiding over the tea with a lacy bra and underwear set and lots of jewelry so much that it jangled when she moved okay i'll just keep that in my head. When I imagine her chomping through Central Park trying to get 14, 15-year-old girls

so Epstein could rape them. To Bobby Chacon, former FBI, star of Facebook Watch series Curse of Akakor, what does it mean to you that her, Gilliam Maxwell's, emails, private emails have been hacked.

Well, it shows me that there are people out there with the means to do such hacking that probably want to have a look at those emails and probably don't want them falling in the hands of the authorities. I would think that, you know, I would hope that the authorities got to them first and that the hacking is the type of hacking that isn't able to destroy those emails. But it shows me that there are rich and powerful people that are going after Maxwell in any way they can. So it might be the situation where you have one group hiding her and another group trying to find out where she is so she can't do any damage to them. And so this hacking is not random. It's not some person looking for,

you know, ransom or any kind of reward. To me, it's some of those rich and powerful people that could be hurt by whatever's in those emails that are probably behind the hacking and with the intention of not having those emails leaked out. Well, right now I am very disturbed that everybody's screaming about Epstein's victims not being able to face Epstein in court because he gets killed behind bars. What about Ghislaine Maxwell? What are we doing about his pimp,

his aristocratic French pimp that recruited these girls to be raped by Epstein, according to them. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Olivia, who was one of nine accusers in a new lawsuit filed against the estate of Epstein, says that she had first met the disgraced financier after she moved to New York to follow her aspirations. Lily, who also asked that her true identity be concealed, says she was also abused by Epstein when she was just 19. And even though he took his own life and is gone,

she still doesn't feel safe. When we spoke to Olivia and Lily, they did not hint at other men or other powerful men, but they did hint at the women and other people who enabled Jeffrey Epstein in his circle to allow him to do these types of crimes, these alleged crimes. Specifically, the fact that there was the secretary and

the other employees who were women who really made these women trust, these girls trust, that they were going into safe hands when it came to Epstein. So I think they weren't willing to give names because I think that there is criminal litigation that could perhaps happen in the future. You are listening to our friends at Fox. What about Ghislaine Maxwell? What are we doing about his pimp, his aristocratic French pimp that recruited these girls to be raped by Epstein, according to them?

Right now, to James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro Major case, now lawyer. We know Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyers appear in new york court to fight against quote damning records being unsealed with maxwell in hiding being protected reportedly by a number of her highbrow friends she still retains a fleet of high-paid lawyers doing her bidding in court. They fought not to allow all of these documents to be released, but they were. She's apparently lawyering up for a fight that's still yet to come. What do you think? What are the possible charges that will be filed against Epstein's pimp?

Well, I think first of all, I mean, you've got a human trafficking case. I mean, that certainly is one of those things. There's no telling once you start scratching the surface and the FBI continues to investigate. You can have all types of other charges, conspiracy, all types of enterprise charges, and many other far-reaching types of things, such as extortion. And there's just no telling what you're going to find. This has gone on for years. There are a lot of people involved.

There's a lot at stake. This isn't just the normal type of case, as bad as it may be, for someone to prostitute someone out on the streets of Las Vegas or New York. This has a worldwide implication with some of the most powerful, rich people in the world, and there's going to be a lot more to it once the FBI gets to the bottom of it. If they ever do, and if they don't, I can tell you who will. Private lawyers. It's not just up to the feds who never did a darn thing about Epstein.

Sigrid McCauley. That's a lawyer for one of the alleged Epstein victims who says that Gillen Maxwell recruited young girls to get raped. Other Epstein accusers, including Annie Farmer, say that Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell, is in hiding in, quote, plain sight. That just screams New York to me. Now, this lawyer has been trying to serve Ghislaine Maxwell and her lawyers with a complaint, a civil complaint. The lawyers refuse to respond or accept service of these legal papers, and they can't find Ghislaine Maxwell. Now, her lawyers know where to find her, and Epstein's pimp.

And the complete devastation they brought on the lives of all of these young girls and women. So, Dr. Bethany, we're sending the girls who are looking for justice a message that, oh, we can't find Ghislaine Maxwell, but her lawyers know where she is. So once again, these girls are being victimized by rich and powerful men, right? It reminds me of something called institutional sociopathy. It's when one person who lacks a conscience joins up with another person who lacks a conscience and then joins up with another person who lacks a conscience. And pretty much they begin to form some kind of a vast web

where they act in concert, men and women together. We saw this in the Michael Jackson case. The maid didn't say anything. The guard who saw him with little kids didn't say anything. Everybody looked the other way or participated in some way. And so what these girls are going to feel is that not only can they not trust men like Jeffrey Epstein, but they cannot trust society because society at large is colluding with all this bad, perverted behavior. Listen, the theories that are out there, one of them is that it was another inmate who may have killed Jeffrey Epstein. Come on.

You don't believe that? He was found hanging in his cell. He had tried to commit suicide before that. He was a very wealthy man who was looking a lifetime in prison. You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. So Epstein's taken off suicide watch. The day before he kills himself, his roommate is removed from the cell the cameras on his tear are not working the guards fell asleep it seems almost impossible to think all of those

things could happen in that way it does and that's what makes this so shocking i mean this is a failure on multiple levels do you think there's any way that Jeffrey Epstein could have been murdered? Absolutely, unequivocally not. Okay, he says tomato. I say tomato. That's 60 minutes inside Jeffrey Epstein's cell. You're hearing Sharon Alfonsi, but to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. You have sent me a series of photos and theories, not just wild theories, but theories based on what you are seeing in his jail cell. Now, I've been around the block more times than I can count. I've been in more jails than I can even remember. And I can tell you the condition of his jail cell at the time of his death was highly irregular in many, many ways.

Now, let's just start with what you observed. Before we get into his autopsy, what you observed that was so wrong with his jail cell. Now, keeping in mind, hold on, Joe Scott, Melissa Cronin, that he had had another, a first suicide attempt, let's just say about a week before this suicide attempt, where he had been allegedly depressed. He blamed that as an attack by another inmate. And that was poo-pooed. Epstein himself said another inmate did it. Okay, let's don't forget that. But then amazingly, the video from that incident, missing. Nobody has that. And he's taken off suicide watch. His roommate is taken out of the cell in the hours leading up to his second and successful alleged suicide attempt. None of that makes sense to me, Melissa Cronin. Nancy, like you said, every single aspect of his first suicide

attempt and his eventual death just defies belief. There were lapses in judgment and lapses in protocol every step of the way for almost two weeks up until the moment when he died. So his first suicide attempt, we actually broke the story of that on Radar Online on July 23rd. Like you said, he claimed that that had been an attack by his roommate, a man named Nicholas Tartaglione. As you said, shockingly, the video from that night does not exist. Now, first, the authorities said, oh, actually, we did find it. Nobody saw it. And they came out later and said, you know, oh, it's actually been corrupted. We can't see what was shown on that. And we talked to another inmate that actually was a witness to that suicide

attempt on July 23rd. And they said that it did not sound like an attack from his roommate, that actually Epstein's roommate was his closest friend in the prison, that he was kind of looking out for him. And this man, he was charged with killing four people, but he also insists that he was the one that yelled for the guards to come and actually save Epstein's life during that first attempt. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The government says Epstein was suicidal and made his first failed suicide attempt weeks after he arrived. According to court documents, on July 23rd, a guard found Epstein on the floor of a cell

with a strip of bedsheet around his neck. Epstein claimed his cellmate, Nick Tartaglione, attacked him. Epstein says that Nick tried to kill him. Nick says absolutely nothing like that happened. It's not just Nick says absolutely nothing happened. Absolutely nothing happened. No one says that Nick tried to kill Epstein. Epstein was moved to the psych unit and placed on suicide watch.

But one week later, Epstein, at the direction of the MCC's psychological staff, was taken off suicide watch and required to have an assigned cellmate. You are listening to CBS 60 Minutes about the first suicide attempt. So what we believe, even though Epstein said he was attacked, is that it was, in fact, a. Let's hear from NBC4. At the Metropolitan Correctional Center, prison officers now keeping a closer eye on Jeffrey Epstein, the financier and accused child sex trafficker injured earlier this week with apparent marks to his neck lying nearly semi-unconscious in a fetal position in a secure cell block area. Investigators have three theories. One, he tried to commit suicide. Two, he staged the incident to try to get a transfer. Or three,

that he was attacked by an inmate in his unit. Accused killer Nicholas Tartaglione is housed in the same unit as Epstein. His lawyer says Tartaglione was initially questioned only as a possible witness and is not a suspect. Nick had nothing to do with harming anybody in any facility, including Mr. Epstein. Our friends at NBC4, so was it all staged to get to a better part of the jail and that would be the psych unit? I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. Dr. Bethany, everybody in jail wants to go to the med unit. Everybody. It's better conditions, better food, better treatment, better beds, better everything. Why is this staged? What do you think? Well, I don't think so because you have a man who's used to living on a huge island, big staff, gourmet food, marble foyer, frette sheets.

Do you think a man like that is going to try to stage getting to another part of the prison by putting a ligature around his neck? That seems highly unlikely. It seems like he would do it if he really wanted. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you familiar? Are you familiar with the shoe? Are you familiar with this facility? Listen to CBS 60 Minutes. MCC is the worst jail or prison I've ever been to by far. It's not a club fed. It's not a club anything. It is dirty. It's insect infested, rodent infested. It was built for about 350 and houses over 700. So the inmates are packed in. Bruce Barquette is the lawyer for Epstein's first cellmate, 52-year-old Nick Tartaglione, a brawny former police officer accused of murdering four men.

They shared a cell in the SHU, the special housing unit, which is considered safer than general population. Jail's a tough place. The rules don't exist the way they do in society. Somebody like Jeffrey Epstein, you know, an elderly, rich, white male is going to have a tough time in general population. Epstein was directing money to be deposited in other inmates' commissary accounts in exchange for his protection, sources say, because he feared for his life. So if it was a suicide attempt, why was he taken off suicide? Watch. Listen to this. Lawyers say the day before Epstein was found dead, he was upbeat and looking forward to an appeal hearing on his bail. That same day, his cellmate was released and no new cellmate was assigned, even though he was

required to have one. Michael Thomas and Tova Noel are the two guards who were working the overnight shift on the shoe. Court documents say Epstein was escorted into his cell by Tova Noel at approximately 7 49 p.m. Then the guards didn't check in on him again until shortly after 6 30 a.m. the next morning. So in the shoe, they should be checked in on every 30 minutes? They should be checked on every 30 minutes. It's my understanding, based on the documents that I examined, the two officers that were working in the special housing unit allegedly falsified the records and did not do any rounds for approximately eight hours.

How big of a deal is that? That's a huge, huge deal. This is one of the most basic operational aspects of managing a jail or prison. So to you, Melissa Cronin, you're hearing our friends at 60 Minutes, Cronin, co-author Epstein, Dead Men Tell No Tales. It's hard to believe that so many coincidences occurred to create a perfect storm. The not one guard, but two guards decided to take a nap and shop online. Both of them didn't do a single round, not one for their whole shift, several hours, eight hours at least. The video recorder just happened not to be working and or they preserved

the wrong video the hours before the suicide the actual death of epstein his cellmate is removed even though after a suicide you're supposed to have a cellmate a suicide attempt, you're supposed to have a cellmate. I mean, one thing after the next. And Joe Scott Morgan, did you see all the things in his cell that shouldn't be there? Yeah, I did, Nancy. And just kind of an overall view and kind of clarification, this image that these images that I've seen were provided, you know, from the 60 Minutes special that was that was done.

And I was shocked. I have to admit, you know, in in correctional facilities, prison facilities, it is paramount that that prisoners commonly keep their cell in an in an ordered fashion because, you know, chaos. And it's like a child, you know, chaos in a room leads to chaos in the mind. It makes it very difficult to control people. When you look at the interior of your cell, Nancy, and people can see this online, it's squalid. You know, you've got, you've got piles of cloth laying everywhere. It's all orange cloth mattress laying on the floor and it's, it's dirty. You can actually see stains on the floor. So yeah, I agree with what the gentleman said in the interview and it's it's dirty you can actually see stains on the floor so yeah i agree with what the gentleman said in the interview about it having potentially having bugs and lord

only knows what else but one of the things that's really troubling about this whole thing two major things this guy's on has recently been on suicide watch okay but yet when i take a look at these these images it's observable. You can actually see what appears to be a hose laying on the floor that might be an inch and a half in diameter. It's kind of lengthy and you can see an electrical cord, uh, that's laying on the floor. Now, these are something that can be, uh, used to facilitate as a ligature for hanging or for any other purpose that you might want to do that's nefarious. And another piece to this, when you take a look at his top bunk, it's a two-bunk structure.

The top bunk, the mattress is missing off of it. And you see this guy has gotten medications up there. He's allowed to keep his own medications in the cell. It's striking when you consider a lot of the correctional deaths that I've worked. If a prisoner slash patient is on meds, those have to be distributed by the infirmary. The nurse will come by along with a guard, and they'll give you your daily meds. This guy had a slew of medications up there. So this whole thing is very, very troubling when you take a look at it in the context that he had allegedly previously attempted to kill himself. Tune in tomorrow for part two of our investigation into the last days of Jeffrey Epstein. Tomorrow on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off.

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