Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - The Weinstein saga continues as Harvey Weinstein's lawyers mount a defense. Is it based on victim shaming?

Episode Date: August 30, 2018

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This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In 1997, I was raped by Harvey Weinstein. I was 21 years old. This festival was his hunting ground. And even tonight, sitting among you, there are those who still have to be held accountable for their conduct against women. You know who you are. speaking out at the Cannes Film Festival, declaring, accusing Hollywood movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, the multimillionaire of rape. At this hour, Asia Argento facing sex attack charges of her own as the M.O., the modus operandi, the tactic of Harvey Weinstein's defense becomes clear.

Attack the victim. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. One by one, Harvey Weinstein and his high-powered legal and detective team are taking down his rape victims. One by one, they're being attacked. Asia Argento handed them a case on a silver

platter with evidence that she had a sex relationship with a minor boy who once starred as her son in a movie. That's bad enough. But can you deny the truth of aggressive for me. I need to know a person to be touched. I won't do a thing. I won't do a thing. Please, I swear I won't. Just sit with me. Don't embarrass me in the hotel. I'm here all the time. I know, but I don't want to. Please sit there. Please. One minute. No, I can't. Go to the bathroom. Please, I don't want to do something I don't want to.

Go to the bathroom. Come here. Listen to me. I want to go downstairs. I'm not going to do anything and you'll never Come here. Listen to me. I want to go downstairs. I'm not going to do anything. You'll never see me again after this. That's it. If you embarrass me in this hotel, I'll stay. I'm not embarrassing you.

It's just that I don't feel comfortable. I mean, don't have a fight with me in the hallway. It's not my business. Please. I'm not going to do anything. I swear on my children. Please come in. On everything.

I'm a famous guy. I'm feeling very uncomfortable right now. Please come in now. And one minute. And if you want to leave when the guy comes with my jacket, you can go. Why yesterday you touched my wrist? No, please. I'm not going to do when the guy comes with my life yesterday you touched my priest please i'm sorry just come on i'm used to that are you used to that yes come in no but i'm

not used to that i won't do it again come on sit here sit here for a minute please no i don't want to do this now you will embarrass me you'll call me again okay i'm sorry i promise you i won't do anything i know but yes there was too much coming i will never do another thing to you five minutes don't ruin your friendship with me for five minutes i know but it's kind of like it's too much for me i can't please you're making a big scene here. No, but I want to leave. Okay, bye. Thank you. You are hearing movie mogul Harvey Weinstein pleading, begging, badgering, bullying

a 22-year-old model to sit and watch him take a shower. Okay, ew. Okay, let's just start with that. Joining me, Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. Ashley Wilcott, lawyer, judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Karen Smith, forensics expert. Jim Elliott, Georgia lawyer, city attorney for Warner Robins.

And Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A. psychoanalyst. So, Dr. Bethany, let's start with you. When you hear him say, just sit here, just sit here five minutes, that sounds innocent. Just sit down. But you don't know it's watching him naked, lathering up himself and showering. And I'm sure that will include a sex episode in the shower all by himself. And he wants her to sit there and watch him. Really disgusting, and I have to say when I'm listening to that sound, he's so coercive with her. He's manipulative. He's relating on the

basis of power. He's threatening. He's doing everything possible to make her feel as if she is embarrassing him. Well, he's going to stand naked in a shower masturbating and exposing himself and I like the fact that when he says I'm used to touching women's breasts as if it's just nothing and she says I am uncomfortable he completely dismisses everything that she's trying to tell him I have to believe that this is how he relates to women all the time. Joining me, Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. Alexis Tereschuk, that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Right now, we see that the tactic is to attack the victims and take them down one by one. What do you make of it? What do you know? So the first British woman that ever accused

Harvey Weinstein of rape is a woman named Lisette Anthony. She is now 54 years old. She said he attacked her in a London hotel room when she was very young in her 20s and she came forward. But she has now come out and said that Harvey is trying to take down the women that have accused him. She went on the record. She gave an interview. She said these are dirty tricks by Harvey, that this is an attempt. He's now making attempts to accuse these women of other things in their lives. And she said it has been so terrible to become known as one of his victims. She said she almost committed suicide, but she had to have a

friend talk her down from it. She said this is nothing that she ever wanted was to be known as part of Harvey Weinstein's bloody harem. And she just said that everything about this is harassment and that he has just people been sitting around. These are her words sitting around the dinner table waiting for somebody to be complicit. What she's referring to is Asia Argento's story that she has now been accused of assaulting a teenage boy. She says that people have been ready to take down these women because they want to see these women hurt because they just hurt Harvey Weinstein. You know, it's such a phenomenon. I've never understood it.

To Ashley Wolcott joining me, juvenile judge, lawyer, and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Ashley, I didn't know anything about the world of crime. I knew nothing about it. I grew up in the middle of nothing but soybeans and pine trees, where you could still ride your bike for hours and then come home when you heard your parents in the distance blowing the car horn, maybe. So when my fiancé was murdered, that was the first thing I knew about violent crime. When I started trying cases, Ashley, as you well know, I really didn't know much more than that.

I had to look up the words plaintiff and defendant in Black's Law Dictionary and write down the definition. So I get into court and start prosecuting criminal cases. I've never seen the amount of venom I've seen that are directed toward rape victims. And I really think it would be leveled against child molestation victims except their children and I don't I don't understand the complete it's almost like people are angry at the victims and when you're that was when you'd have to try a rape case with no DNA you might have maybe a hair that you could say well this is a white person's hair, a black person's hair, a Hispanic person's hair, an Asian. That's really the most you could do. And maybe you could get a blood type like, oh, the perp is a type A, the defendant is a type A. That was it. And then an

ID. And if you're lucky, a fingerprint. So that's what we had. So it became even more critical without DNA for the victim to be believed. And I've seen so many dirty tricks pulled on victims. Ashley, I know this is going to date me, but I remember sitting on the floor at the Georgia legislature in the hall trying to scribble changes onto the Georgia rape shield law where defense attorneys would try to bring up, oh, are you on the birth control pill? Why? How many boyfriends have you had? How many lovers have you had? Blah, blah, blah. I mean, anything in their minds that could make the rape victim look bad and this is just another way and Asia Argento I gotta tell you has handed it over on a silver platter as my dad used to say she put it on top of the Christmas tree but Ashley Ashley but before you answer

listen to this then I went to Cannes in May 2014. And whilst I was there, Harvey Weinstein approached me in the Majestics, in the lobby. It was quite forceful in the sense of telling me to relax. And I think then I started to get a little bit confused he took hold of me and pretty much forced me to walk with him to the bathroom where he stood me in front of the mirror and he stood behind me and i was like what are you doing and i'm like he's like touching me rubbing me and he's like just relax and i'm telling him to stop and he would raise his voice but at the same time he kept reass touching me, rubbing me, and he's like, just relax. And I'm telling him to stop, and he would raise his voice, but at the same time, he kept reassuring me that everything's going to be okay. Oh, it's becoming crystal clear. The muddy water is now settling down,

and I can see very clearly what Harvey Weinstein, the Hollywood movie mogul, is up to with his high-priced legal team. I'm talking millions of dollars paid to defense lawyers and a fleet of private investigators. They are going after one by one and taking down his rape victims, his sex assault victims. Joining me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A., Jim Elliott, city attorney of Water Robins, Karen Smith, forensics expert, Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, Alexis Tereschuk, reporter with RadarOnline.com, and we're taking your calls out to Hillary. Hi, Hillary in Riverside. What's your question? I'm trying to figure out why there's so many of these women that never came forward, why it took so long. Hillary in Riverside, Florida, why is it taking victims so long to come forward?

You know what? That's a good question. And that is a question that the jurors are going to ask. And I'll tell you something, Hillary, it's such a good question that I would fight that question before it came into the jurors' minds. As a matter of fact, to you, Ashley Wilcott, in answer to Hillary's question, we have under the law what is called outcry, an outcry witness. That means, did your rape victim tell someone immediately, be it a friend, a doctor, a nurse, the emergency room, a boyfriend, her mom, a roommate, anybody? Why? Because that adds

credibility to their rape claim, because there's going to be questions, just like Hillary has, and it's a good question. Under our Constitution, you have a right to cross-examination, to confront your witness. That's the Sixth Amendment. Confront your accuser and test them. Test their veracity, their truthfulness. That's what they're going to ask the victims. Ashley, what took you so long to come forward? Absolutely. And so there are a couple of points here. First of all, it's amazing to me, Nancy, how many kids are victims of sexual abuse and the outcry, which is correct. There should be an outcry.

But then as soon as a child turns 18 and quote unquote becomes an adult, at least in the state of Georgia, then they do start picking apart the victim and saying, how is she dressed? How many minutes she had sex with? What is she doing to encourage the behavior? That's the wrong approach. These are victims. They're victims. A victim should never be shamed. They should always be believed unless their credibility and veracity is destroyed at trial, like you've just suggested is possible by asking all those questions. In this particular case, remember that victims are embarrassed. They're ashamed. It is a mental

challenge after being a victim to think clearly and rationally and say, I need to come forward. I was raped yesterday. That's not how it works generally. And so victims often don't come forward until later. And then there's an empowerment. If you hear that somebody says, oh, I came forward because I was raped by this man who's very powerful in Hollywood, then they're empowered to say, wow, it happened to me too. Maybe I need to put all my trauma aside and come forward as well. Hillary's still with us. Hillary from Riverside, Florida. Hillary, do you believe that because it took these ladies so long to come forward, much as in Bill Cosby, many of them did not come forward. Do you think it's going to hurt their testimony, Hillary?

I don't think so, because there's way too many accusations from too many people. I hear you, and I agree with you. I think that the state, Dr. Bethany, has got to do some repair in its opening statement and state up front. You will hear evidence. It can't just be what the prosecutor thinks. It's got to be about the evidence. You will hear evidence that these victims did not come forward because they thought it would end their career. They'd never be in another movie again. They would be destroyed. And we're going to bring evidence that some victims' careers were destroyed. Think Ashley Judd, according to what we've been told. Dr. Bethany, they've got to put this fire out before it starts raging in that courtroom.

But also they have to paint a picture that being sexually involved with another person is very intimate. It involves intimate emotions and experiences that even victims find it difficult to expose. So maybe the victim goes into the hotel room with a history of having been aggressed upon by other people in their lives, so they believe it's normal to be aggressed upon. So they capitulate to the aggressor, or maybe they go into it maybe feeling admired or flattered that a powerful wealthy older man is showing them attention until it all goes wrong and it turns into a rape scene but they they remember that little that sliver of time when at first it was titillating or maybe even though they didn't want to be raped they experienced some kind of sexual arousal temporarily

so all things well i don't know what you're talking about bethany marshall because well though they didn't want to be raped, they experienced some kind of sexual arousal temporarily. So all things... Well, I don't know what you're talking about, Bethany Marshall, because when I was just listening to that model going, no, no, no, she did not sound, as you say, titillated to me. Let's see what Stacey in Alabama has to say to that Dr. Bethany Marshall. Hi, Stacey in Alabama. What's your question, dear. Bethany Marshall. Hi, Stacey in Alabama. What's your question, dear? Hey, Nancy. My question, first of all, this is serious. I knew when everyone was coming forward that it would not be pretty for them.

And I'm just curious, do you know if the prosecution is actually looking for other possible victims to add to the total number? I believe that they are. Hold on, Stacey. To Jim Elliott, veteran trial lawyer, the city attorney for Warner Robins, Georgia. Jim Elliott, in Warner Robins, you have a huge international culture and population. You have people coming in and out, not staying very long. When a person comes in, commits a crime of any sort, and then they leave, it makes it even harder to solve that case.

Jim Elliott, do you believe that the prosecution right now is looking for other victims? Remember, some of the Bill Cosby victims never went public. I think they definitely are, Nancy. And, you know, I think it's easy in light of how many victims have come forward to question, you know, why victims didn't report earlier and those kind of things. But this was a very powerful man. I mean, this man could, as you said earlier, make or break a person's career. And so hopefully strength in numbers gives power to victims to come forward and tell their story that they've been hesitant to speak about thus far. You know, to Stacey in Alabama, you said this infuriates you. Me too, because I've represented so many crime victims that I can't really describe.

You know, you'd be surprised at the sex attack victims that have never spoken out for their own reasons. The feeling of helplessness that they have the rest of their lives, Stacey. I can't imagine. And you know, I, one of my questions was how you would handle it in the courtroom and you actually answered it before I could even ask the question. You know, I think the best strategy is to face it head on, you know, to go ahead and say, okay, you've probably heard that Asia Argento was, you know, accused of this. You know, she was never tried in a court. She was never found guilty of that. And I think that's very important to know. Not negating this young man's, you know, under table deal that he took.

I'm not saying that he's not a victim. However, I think it's important for the jury to remember that this lady was never convicted of this crime. Well, you know, another thing, Stacey, as I've told many a jury, even a hooker can be raped. I mean, what do you think victims are, nuns and priests and virgins? It don't work like that. And I would just tell them up front, I'd go through all the victims and say, yes, Asia Argento has been accused of this thing. But does that mean she wasn't raped?

You hear the evidence. Harvey Weinstein approached me in the Majestics, in the evidence. took hold of me and pretty much forced me to walk with him to the bathroom where he stood me in front of the mirror and he stood behind me and I was like what are you doing and I'm like he's like touching me rubbing me and he's like just relax and I'm telling him to stop and he would raise his voice. But at the same time, he kept reassuring me that everything's going to be okay. You are hearing the sound of an actress, Katie and Noble describing Harvey Weinstein's alleged sex assault on her in a hotel room in France. And I want to go back to Stacey in Alabama's question. Do I think that the state is marshalling evidence of other victims?

Think about it, Stacey. That woman, Katie Ann Noble, is in France. And we're hearing this other woman speak out, the first British actress to accuse the movie mogul of rape, who actually contemplated suicide over her ordeal, Lisette Anthony. Oh, and by the way, she said that after this all came out, her little boy is getting bullied on the playground about mommy getting raped. Like it's some big joke and they're taunting her son on the playground. So my point is not the son on the playground. But think about it. Britain, Great Britain, France, Weinstein has made movies all over the world, Stacey in Alabama.

You think he he did not commit crimes in other countries? Because what he was out of town and away from his wife? No, I think it would be even worse out of town, right? With me, Karen Smith, forensics expert. Karen, there's really, unless you've got a, like a Monica Lewinsky blue dress saved in a plastic bag somewhere, I don't know what, what physical evidence you could use to prove these cases. There's not a lot. We're talking, you know, sometimes decades have gone by. So there's not going to be any physical evidence, any forensics to prove or disprove the allegations. It's just the veracity of the victim at this point. And, you know, like the attorney said, this is strength in numbers. You know, when you have a victim that comes forward immediately,

I can collect the clothing. I can collect samples from her body when we go to the rape crisis center under her fingernails and we take swabs. And it's, you know what, it's a second traumatic incident for these women to go through that yet again. They've been victimized once. Now they have to go to a rape crisis center and essentially get victimized again. I shine lights on them. You know, I have to take photographs. It's another intimate issue when we go there. I've held their hands. I've talked to them while they're crying. And you know what? This just it incenses me to hear that the victims are put on post to prove that this happened to them. And unfortunately, the forensics just aren't going to be there for some of these cases. Out to the lines. Joining me now is Morgan from Texas. Hi, Morgan. What's

your question, dear? Hi, Nancy. I have a question related to the Shana Huber's case. And I was hoping that you could actually kind of explain a little bit more about the insanity of the defense. And I think it's just so important for the public to understand that just because someone has a mental diagnosis, it doesn't mean that they're going to be let off the hook. And I think that there's just a misconception with that generally. And before I went to law school, I didn't realize that just because someone, you know, has a mental illness, they're not going to be not held accountable. And we still need to hold people accountable if they know what they're

doing. So could you maybe elaborate a little bit more? Well, Morgan, sure. Morgan, we're in the middle of a Harvey Weinstein discussion. But you know what? I think you're right. Let's talk about that Shana Huber's case really quickly. I'll tell you this much. Shana Huber is claiming that she, well, she's claiming self-defense. That's her real claim. But they're also throwing in a few other mental claims. Insanity under our law in most jurisdictions is the old McNaughton rule,

which is did not know right from wrong at the time of the incident. That does not mean your mind doesn't clear up at the time of trial, but at the time of the incident, you didn't know right from wrong. Now, what the state's going to do in that case to defeat that claim is show that she already made a lie on the 911 call, that she may have had a cleanup. She waited 15 minutes to call 911, that she came over specifically to stop him from going on a date that evening, that there was no self-defense as everything in the room was in place, untouched. And the blood evidence shows that he was seated at the dining room table and the blood poured down and pooled at his face and head at the table and the chair. So a self-defense claim is not going to work when he's seated at the table

and unarmed. Her later defense belied that it was a different theory, but it didn't match with the physical evidence. My point is it shows she had the wherewithal to lie 15 minutes later on the 911 call. There are other insanity aspects or mental defect aspects such as psychotic break, compulsion, delusion, such as my dog told me to do it like in Son of Sam. But long story short, it will be defeated. Now, we are going to be looking at it in depth tomorrow. And Morgan, law student extraordinaire, call me back. Same time, same place, same number. And we can review what's happening in court.

Okay. Morgan, may I have leave your honor to go back to Harvey Weinstein, that piece of doo-doo? Thank you, my love. Okay. Yes. Yes. Thank you, Nancy. Sure.

Now, back to Weinstein, a.k.a. piece of doo-doo. I would say crap, but I've disallowed my children from saying it, so I don't feel like I can say it in good conscience. What I'm thinking about right now is this one victim in Great Britain has spoken out. Fifty-four-year-old Lisette Anthony, absolutely gorgeous mother. She says that the victims are now being shamed in a, quote, huge backlash. And she is claiming that she was attacked by him and that she is paying the price. And it's all really come to a head because of Asia Argento, who was, now we know, part of a relationship,

the law is saying, and I agree, sex attack on a minor with a teen boy that she starred with in a movie. Now, I want you to take a listen to Asia Argento's fiery speech at Cannes. I was raped by Harvey Weinstein. Here you can.

I was 21 years old. This festival was his hunting ground. And even tonight, sitting among you, there are those who still have to be held accountable for their conduct against women. You know who you are. I'm telling you right now. What do we have to do here? Nothing. I'm going to take a shower. You sit there and have a drink.

Don't drink. Can I stay in the bar? No, you must come here now. No. No, I don't want to. I'm not doing anything with you. I know. I'm sorry no i don't want i'm not doing anything with you i'm sorry i don't know yesterday was a kind of aggressive for me i need to know a person i won't do a thing i don't think please i swear i won't just sit with me don't embarrass me in the hotel i'm here all the time

please sit there. Please. One minute. No, I can't. Go to the bathroom. Please, I don't want to do something I don't want to. Go to the bathroom. You were just hearing a then 22-year-old model responding to Harvey Weinstein as he attacks her verbally, pleads, berates alternately. Ambra Gutierrez trying to make her watch him take a shower as she, and remember the thing about it, Alexis Torres show, RadarOnline.com, she'd already gone to police, correct? And she was wired for this exact incident. So this would be round two with Weinstein, according to her.

Exactly. She was horrified by what happened the first time that she, it is an aspiring actress, model. She met Harvey Weinstein. She thought this was her golden ticket, went back to the hotel with him. He attacked her. She was so scared. She went to the police. They said, please, we, we understand this was a very scary situation for you. If you will wear a wire and we can get him on tape, this would really help our evidence. So I think that the police obviously knew that this wasn't a one-time thing, but they knew that they were up against the most powerful man in Hollywood, which also it's not just Los Angeles, it's New York where this happened to me.

He's a very, very powerful man. And so they, they wired her up. She went there, she got this recording. She was very scared on it. Her voice is shaking. It wasn't like she had someone there that was just going to jump in and help her if anything happened. She just, and she could have been caught wearing this wire if he had physically attacked her again. And she took it. And then the prosecution declined to prosecute Harvey, even though they had this on tape. The police had spent so much time. They'd been meticulous about trying to get evidence against Harvey and the prosecution at the time declined. Well, now all the women are claiming their careers.

They were afraid their careers would stall or end. Some of them did have a career stall or end. That's what Ashley Judd says happened to her. She battled through it and did not give in to Weinstein. And it is still a concern with claims right now to Dr. Bethany Marshall. I mean, women will be attacked or harassed, and they don't say anything because they think they may lose their job. Right. And then some women are attacked and harassed, and they do lose their job, like with Harvey Weinstein.

So what I think is so incredible about this is, you know, that rapists are divided into very specific typologies. And one typology is the power rapist, the one who has a personality disorder, takes a hold of the victim, rapes the victim without any regard for what's going on in the victim's mind. It's not that there's a vendetta or necessarily even that it's driven by sexual desire, but it's driven by the ability to have power over the victim and there's no empathy. And this kind of offender relates to people in that particular way in every aspect of their lives. So just like he cuckolded, as one of the actresses said, he says, look, don't embarrass me. He shames, he beseeches, he pleads. He does everything possible to get his way.

And the offending type pattern is the same with each of these women. Now he's acting it out through his attorneys, right? He's raping them again through his attorneys. Well, this is what they say, Bethany. Weinstein's lawyer, Benjamin Brofman, and I've said a million times, I'm afraid Weinstein might have been listening, that if I were ever charged with a crime, especially in New York or L.A., I would hire one person, Benjamin Brofman.

Brofman don't play. And you don't see him showboating on TV or anything like that. He's nuts and bolts win that case. But he is stating that allegations of so-called dirty tricks made by Liz said Anthony are totally false. Then neither Weinstein nor his agents or reps had anything to do with charges against Asia Argento. They wouldn't dream of dirty tricks. OK, you know what? That's I just do not believe that they're formulating dirty tricks as we speak. It's not credible and he should not result in criminal

convictions. We are talking about alleged dirty tricks and dragging the Harvey Weinstein victims, the alleged victims through the mud. Let's talk for one moment about Ashley Judd, Alexis Terescha, radar online.com. What is the story with Ashley Judd and Harvey Weinstein? She says that because she turned down his advances, advances is such a kind word, his assault attempts, that she was blacklisted in Hollywood. And she said she was up for roles and they were taken away when directors tried to hire her and she never knew why. And then it came out after all of the women came forward, directors were saying, we wanted to hire Ashley for our parts. And we were told we could not because Harvey told us

not to. And again, he is the most powerful man in Hollywood. His movie studio made all the top movies. All of the women that were in his movies won Oscars. And they getting him to give you a job was a golden ticket. But if he didn't want you in jobs, it was everything was Peter Jackson in the Lord of the Rings, probably the biggest movies of the decade when they were released. And Ashley said that she was labeled as a problem actress and somebody that couldn't be trusted. And it destroyed her career. Well, you know what? She didn't just say it.

She is suing Harvey Weinstein, claiming he harmed her career. That's right. And I love Ashley Judd. I love the whole Judd family. Okay. Naomi, Winona, the whole kit and caboodle. Ashley Judd has sued Weinstein, starting a brand new legal war for Weinstein, claiming her career withered, ended, because like Alexis just reported, he spread lies about her.

Now, it's very rare for people to get money damages for smear campaigns because it's hard to prove. But, you know, Ashley Judd has a sterling reputation. And remember, there was a major director siding with her. It's Peter Jackson who came forward and said he removed her from a casting list as a, quote, direct result of information given to him by Weinstein. Okay, now that's going to make it a little bit easier for her to prove. Now, this lawsuit was filed in LA Superior Court, and it involves Jackson's Lord of the Rings films. Everybody knows about that. I mean, I've even read all those books to my children and we've watched them all. He thought about casting her in a major role, but then he said, quote, Weinstein torpedoed Judd's professional opportunity. Whoa, that's pretty bold, I think,

of him to come out and say that. Jim Elliott, city attorney for the so-called International City of Warner Robins. Jim Elliott, he's coming out against a movie mogul as well. I mean, he's a famous director, but that's certainly not going to help him in his future. Not at all. And that's very brave of him to do. I mean, that takes a lot of courage because there'll be ramifications and repercussions for his career likely as well. Well, the women are now bracing themselves to be dragged through the mud after coming forward against Harvey Weinstein. And Asia Argento's past claims aren't really helping anything. I want you to take a listen now.

I want you to take a listen now to actress Dominique Hewitt as she spoke to Megyn Kelly. I had heard a lot of stories about his behavior in the past and I just, you know, I was an actress looking for a break and he's a gatekeeper and I felt that he used his position, you know, to try to make me do something that is not in accord with how I usually behave. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.