Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "Thermal Camera" to Crack Lynette Hooker Case? Feds Secretly Reconstruct Scene

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

The U.S. Coast Guard still investigating Lynette Hooker’s disappearance in the Bahamas.  Lynette  vanished after her husband Brian says she bounced off the dinghy.   Recently released underwater search images are being analyzed by an underwater crime scene investigator.  Meanwhile, U.S. officials say GPS data from one of Brian Hooker’s devices shows movements inconsistent with his public account.  The Soulmate, Brian and Lynette’s sailboat, has been seized by the U.S. Coast Guard for examination.  Brian Hooker denies wrongdoing.     Joining Nancy Grace today:  Josh Kolsrud  -  criminal defense attorney,  former Assistant U.S. Attorney, founder  Kolsrud Law Offices, author: The Criminal Lawyer's Guide to Immigration Law, website: kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices Dr. John Delatorre -  licensed psychologist and mediator, specializing in forensic psychology, psychological consultant to Project Absentis, resolutionfcs.com, Twitter, IG, and TikTok: @drjohndelatorre  Brian Fitzgibbons -  Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security Ross Gardner - crime scene analyst, Vice-President of Bevel Gardner and Associates,  Author: Bloodstain Pattern Analysis With an Introduction to Crime Scene Reconstruction  Vanessa Walsh  - host: Unmasked True Crime, Facebook and YouTube: UnmaskedTrueCrime, X: CrimeUnmasked  Dave Mack  -investigative reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, will a thermal camera crack the Lynette Hooker overboard case? This, as we learn tonight, the feds are secretly reconstructing the scene. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Brian has said from the very beginning that Lynette bounced off the dinghy around 7.30 p.m. Investigators have uncovered that the soulmate's AIS data directly contradict the narrative that Brian Hooker had with this nine-hour paddle.

Investigators now believe that both Brian and Lynette did make it back to the soulmate. So do you remember that story that he gave? he, Brian Hooker, that he left the scene of his wife's disappearance, obviously death, because his mother was critically ill, terminally ill. Well, this is a video of him at his mom's place, live in life. There he is enjoying a latte. Not a care in the world. He's been spotted shopping, wandering around in the next.

What is he doing? Why is he looking at trash? He's been spotted around the neighbor. out shopping at the pharmacy and basically technical legal term chillaxon this is from our friends at fox news digital whoa wait a minute josh coles rude veteran defense attorney i thought he swore he would stay on the island till the end of time trying to find linette is that him having a little capy a cappuccino outside his mom's house was that can i see that again i think that is him that's not a him in the Bahamas looking for Lynette Hooker.

Take a look, Coles Rood. Look hard. Put on your glasses. That's him. Okay, Josh Coles Rood. What happened to his vehement vow that he would never leave till he found her?

Well, let's remember that Brian Hooker is not charged with a crime. In fact, he was in the Bahamas and answered questions to the prosecutors for days. and they still chose not to charge him with a crime. And, you know, it's okay to leave a jurisdiction

when they are actively investigating you for murder. Why would you help them out when you know that they're trying to literally take your life away and put you in prison for a crime that they haven't been able to prove that you did? So, you know, as of right now, this moment, you know, he's entitled to drink a country. couple of coffee and to walk around town and go shopping because there are no criminal charges. He has the presumption of innocence. Were you surprised he left? Yes, because one day he's saying, I'll never stop searching for her and crying on camera and then leads the very next day, which to me that just shows his character on how much his word means and just who he is as a person.

and you're going to go see your mom who's been ill. She's been ill for a while with chronic kidney failure, so I'm not saying, like, don't see your mom. But what's going on right now, why leave now? I don't think he wanted a part of him. He feels like he didn't want to face Steve and I. I'm glad he left, though, because I did not want to run into him. I didn't want to say something or I regret or something.

Is it true that your stepdad, Brian Hooker, knew you were coming down and he left anyway? Just before you got there? I'm sure he did because I told reporters that I was coming down there. So I'm sure he knew and he bolted right before I got there. He talked to us in a group chat with her, just us three. It was like, I wish I could be there for you guys, but I have to be here searching for her. This lady can take care of you guys.

His daughter, Rosie, asked him if they were fighting when this all happened. and he didn't respond. She doesn't want to believe he did anything to her because that's her dad. So I get that. But at the same time, with what we know, it's just not adding note. Judge Coles Rood,

why is it no matter what I ask you, you say something like, well, he's not charged with anything. That's not what I asked you. I asked you, what about his vow to never leave the island, that he was going to find the truth? find his wife. That didn't take long. All I saw of him. Elbows and tail hole as he ran away down the airport strip. Why? Why didn't he go back? I mean, do I have to show it again? I guess I do.

Please show our video from Fox News Diggy. There he is. He's got time to dig through a neighbor's trash. Hey, anything you want in there? How about the truth? Here he is enjoying a latte. He's not looking for her. Why, Cole's rude. So if he can't help them find her or provide any assistance, then going home is a practical reason. And if I was as attorney, I would have told them to go home from day one. So I think that it was a good strategic decision to do that. I literally had to bite my tongue to not interrupt you. Brian Fitzgibbens is joining us. He's the director of USPA nationwide security. He leads a team of investigators literally around the world to find and extract missing people, including people

that go missing in bodies of water. He is a former Marine. He is an Iraqi war vet, which says it all to me. Fitzgibbon's, how do family members normally act when they're trying to find their lost loved one? Are they like Shalaxon and mom's carport? Yeah, this is incongruent with a grieving family member, Nancy. And there's no, there's no playbook to this, you know, is that common cliche phrases, but this doesn't line up with what we normally see with missing persons cases in a grieving family member that is spending every single waking hour searching for the victim, searching for their loved one, contacting people, receiving tips, going to locations, organizing search efforts. You know, this is very,

very much so incongruent with that. You know what, Fitzgibbons, you're so right. And is bringing to mind a mom who has spent more than two decades fighting for justice for her daughter. It's Maggie Zingman. She's the mother of Brittany Phillips, and she drives cross-country with a van with Britney's face on the van with a toll-free number on it.

He's not been asked. Don't come help us. I'm sure, L.E. would love. to talk to him more in depth. That's not true. Coles Rue just dug that out of nowhere. So why is he not there? This is contrary to every family member I have ever seen trying to find a lost love one. Yeah, and I'll add something that Brian Hooker's statements publicly on the record on video and to family and friends about his search efforts have largely been refuted, right down to in the first days of Lynette Hooker's disappearance. He claims to have organized searches.

He claims to have been given the phone numbers of captains to organize a boat search. And it's been released recently that none of that actually happened. So not only is he not driving around the Bahamas looking for his wife, the efforts that he claims to have made have been largely discredited. I won't be able to stop looking. you want to keep looking for Lynette. I'm going to need somebody with more authority to tell me to stop. She wouldn't stop and I'm not going to stop.

I think that's all I can really do, Jesse. Understand. Thank you, Brian. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Oh, my stars. We hear from the horse's mouth. That's from CBSNNN. NBC. Vanessa Walsh joining us, she is a star of unmasked true crime. She is the one that first obtained a phone call from Brian Hooker to a friend the day after Lynette vanished, giving a long, rambling statement about what happened. Vanessa Walsh, aside from the husband, Hooker, enjoying a latte in Mom's Carport far, far away from the scene of where Lynette, we think, went missing. tonight we are learning that infrared radar is being used hopefully to crack the case and that the feds are low-key on the down-low,

reconstructing the crime scene. First of all, do we know where a hooker is tonight? And second, what can you tell me about the feds reconstructing the crime scene? And this is not the Bahamas police. these are the fads. They don't play Vanessa. Yes. And what we do know about Brian is he is, like you said, hanging out at his mom's house outside of Sacramento. He's been photographed walking his dogs, running errands, spending a lot of time hanging out in his mom's garage, basically from outward appearances anyway, living a very peaceful life. Meanwhile, Lynette's family is very frustrated. We've reached the six-month mark now, and they still don't have any answers. And they've also said publicly recently,

that they have not heard anything from him. They haven't heard from him since those initial days since Lynette went missing. He changed his phone number, deleted his socials. They don't even have a way to get a hold of him. So there's been no contact in almost six months from Brian to the family. What can you tell me about the feds reconstructing the same?

So what we know now, of course, they've seized the soulmate. They seize the dingy. Both of those are being processed for evidence. Some of the evidence has been sent to the FBI lab at Quantico. They've been very tight-lipped on what they found, of course, but we do know that the family has said publicly that they have been told by investigators that there was evidence that Lynette made it back to the soulmate.

We also know about the cameras. He had a very sophisticated thermal camera system on board as well that we learned can be operated by iCloud. So investigators are also looking at that to see if they can reconstruct any of them, movements of that night. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. My gosh.

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Cheers. Open the free IHR Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us now, Ross Gardner, crime scene analyst, 30 years experienced VP of Beville Gardner and Associates. That's Forensic Education and Consulting Group. And he is the author of Bloodstained Pattern Analysis with an intro to crime scene reconstruction. Ross Gardner, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Ross, very difficult to reconstruct in the water.

All right, you're going to need divers, and your evidence has literally been washed away. But what about on the boat, the soulmate? Because the mother has stated very clearly that she believes, and she won't say much about it, or why, that Lynette did make it back to the soulmate that night. How do you reconstruct? like a scene like that. What do you do?

Well, I think the first issue is that it's a misnomer sometimes when people talk about reconstruction. Reconstruction is specific discipline. It's based on physical artifacts, the context of which you find them, digital data. You have to have data. And what you're seeking to do is to find objective actions that occur during an incident and they put temporal order to it. So if you think about the dingy, the dingy's been looked at, obviously, if they had found blood stains or something relating to that, we probably would have known that. But nonetheless, the dingy is probably not the scene. With regard to the sailboat, you're going to run in some problems. First and foremost, DNA, minor, ambiguous blood stains are going to mean nothing because

she lived there. So you're looking for activities such as cleanup of significant blood stains if there are older or if there are stains present that are related to dynamic events, injuries, whatever. So you're really, you're up against a brick wall. You don't have the medical, you don't have the body, so you don't have any data from the medical examiner as to the nature of injuries and things of this nature. Bottom line, it really depends on what they find in their, is there evidence of violence, things that were broken, whatever large volumes of blood. What we know is very limited is what they've found, but obviously they will tear that

sailboat apart. Got a question for you. You said that as part of a reconstruction of a crime scene, you look for evidence of cleanup. What do you mean by that? Well, making an assumption that the violence were created blood stains, well, then you could have volumes of blood that had, you know, saturated carpet or were pooled on the floor and or if it, again,

assuming some kind of violence, you know, impacts to her head creating a small spatter onto the surrounding surfaces. When he gets all done, obviously cleaning up that mess becomes problematic for him, and he has to do that. And even when you do clean up, that doesn't mean you can't find evidence of it. Using various chemical procedures, leucamalky green, luminal, ametal, emeto, black, whatever. there are ways to bring that cleanup to light so that you can visualize what was there.

So I'm confident that. Hey, Ross, look at your screen. Look at your monitor. You are seeing right here the body cam video of the Coast Guard seizing the soulmate. And right of as Gibbons, I want to follow up with you something that Ross Gardner just described, a cleanup, a cleanup. For instance, when someone tries to mop up blood or wipe away blood, get rid of tissue or hair, even the cleanup leaves a trail, Brian.

Yeah, and I think also in this case, investigators are going to see what materials were moved from the boat, what was missing from that boat. The boat was extensively documented, even if you were. in the days leading up until Lynette's disappearance. So they'll have a tremendous amount of video footage not only from the security cameras, but from their devices as they were documenting that journey. So, you know, what Ross has pointed out here is, you know, very, very to the point of what these investigators are going to be doing. Dr. John Deletori joining us. He is a licensed psychologist, mediator, specializing in forensic psychology. You can find him at

Dr. John Delotory. Dr. Deletory, thank you for being with us tonight. We were earlier showing the video of Brian Hooker, Chillaxon, at his mom's house. Wouldn't you think that he would be there on the scene if his boat were being analyzed, or would it behoove him to just stay as far away as possible? I don't know that it behooves him to stay as far away.

from possible. But I think we are kind of in this position where he's already made this claim that he was never going to leave until some higher authority. And at that point, I'm not sure he's really talking about police, but he's making this point that someone else has to tell him to leave, which we all completely understood. But in the context of the time, it seems more PR-based. And that's where we are right now. Dave Matt, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. I want to follow up on this heat-seeking digital radar evidence claims that it will crack the case. That earlier video from our friends at Fox News Digital, what can you tell me about that, Dave, Mac? Nancy, the heat-seeking thermal imaging that's being used to search the soulmate in the hooker disappearance,

it really is an important piece of equipment. because it's, first of all, very, very expensive. And it was not being used, apparently. The Fleer system, not being used, when looking for Lynette Hooker. The Soulmate has this forward-looking infrared, okay, the Fleer thermal imaging system. This is capable of detecting heat signatures in the darkness. And yet, apparently, Ryan Hooker didn't use it and didn't plan on using it the night Lynette disappeared.

And at this point, Nancy, you know, when the infrared is used in the water, they can determine this. And the Coast Guard so far has determined that that infrared system was not used to search for Lynette Hooker. This is the type of system. It's an automatic heat detection and tracking. if she was out there and around the boat, he would have found her. To Josh Colesru, veteran defense attorney joining us out of Phoenix. Way in. Well, I mean, fancy equipment always sounds nice when looking in hindsight.

But, you know, don't forget that, you know, there was no law that said that Brian Hooker had to use the thermal imaging 24-7. It's not uncommon for sailors to unplug unnecessary gadgets while they're something. safely anchored. And also, remember, law enforcement doesn't want him going through and sifting through the crime scene. That's the last thing that law enforcement would ever want with some type of contamination. So, you know, we don't know the backstory of what law enforcement has or had or did not do with Brian Hooker, whether they asked him for help or not. But my instinct says they would never want a suspect to help them with a search. Okay, as predicted, Josh Cole's Root, coming up

all sorts of creative arguments for Brian Hooker, who is not a suspect. Dr. Delotory, help me out. I mean, that's all nice, but those are all, like, sort of legal technicalities. The reality is, is that we are currently battling this case in the court of public opinion, right? And so what we think of as, you know, sure, you know, there's no law against it, and I'm sure, you know, investigators don't want him. Ross Gardner, crime scene expert, particularly in crime scene reconstruction, How can we correct this case?

Initially, he's not a suspect. She's disappeared. If he has a fluor technology and he got back to the boat himself and he didn't employ it, I find that as an investigator, I find that a little disconcerting. Honestly, it will all depend upon. Obviously, this scene was altered. If they'd have found something immediately, he would have been arrested. So this all goes back to processing of that yacht, that sailboat, and what do they find,

and do they find evidence of foul play? And if that is the case, then this will be resolved. And to Vanessa Walsh, star of unmasked true crime. Well, I think any time people are looking at the six-month mark and there hasn't been any arrests or any public movement that we've seen, people can get frustrated and think that nothing is happening. However, I think that everything we've seen publicly has pointed to quite the opposite

because the Coast Guard has said it's still an active and ongoing investigation, of course. They've seized both the boats, which they still have possession of. When they went out there in June, they used the divers, the canines. We know that it's been sent. A lot of evidence has been sent to the FBI lab.

So just because we're not seeing, you know, a lot of outward movement or an arrest, doesn't mean there's not a lot of significant movement happening behind the scenes. One of my biggest questions would be, though, and maybe this would be good for one of the attorneys or investigators. Of course, Brian hasn't been charged with anything yet, but I would love to know how long the federal government can hang on to the boats and the dingy while an investigation is ongoing. You know, Dave Mack, following up on what Vanessa Walsh just said, Dave Mack, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, we can't see what's

happening behind the walls at Quantico with all the items seized from the soulmate. We absolutely can't see anything, Nancy. And, you know, it's fascinating to look at where this investigation has gone and what was what they got. You know, we've got the video of the Coast Guard going on the boat and getting it and taking it. You know, Brian Hooker thought, I'm getting this thing back. I'm done. And that didn't happen. Because now, Nancy, the, it is, there is a belief, a theory that Lynette Hooker made it back to the boat that night, the soulmate, that she wasn't

lost from the dingy. She made it all the way back to the boat. While many people believe that the Lynette Hooker overboard case is put to bed, not true. Sources tonight insisting the feds are on location

reconstructing the scene of her alleged overboard. Straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, and he is a star of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, on YouTube. But for our purposes, he is a death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes under his belt. Reconstructing the scene of Lynette Hooker's Overboard, How? You know, the problem is, Nancy, with crime scenes, you can't go in and shake off the dust and reconstruct it, right?

So one of the big problems they're going to have with this is having possession of this boat so long after the fact and then going back in trying to quote unquote reconstruct. And as you know and I know, one of the most difficult things in order to prove is something that involves a fall, right? because there's so many different dynamics that go into this. I'm going to have a real hard time trying to understand exactly what they're going to be attempting to reconstruct. Are they going to do demonstrations out there? Do they have some kind of approximation relative to height, weight? One of the problems is also the fact that how are you going to recreate those environmental conditions out there, the lighting conditions? Because look, at the end of the day, what they're trying to do is create something that can actually be

presented in court and what level of accuracy are you going to have when you're trying to accomplish this. Do Scott is going to be even more difficult to reconstruct because it's in the water. This isn't like a crash where you have skid marks. It's not like a crime scene where you can find blood spatter and other indicia of wrongdoing of homicide. The challenges of reconstructing in the water could be overwhelming, but what about reconstructing on the boat? Well, again, if you're reconstructing,

we have to understand what does that mean. Are we talking about we're going to do it under similar circumstances? We're going to reconstruct there. We're not walking into an apartment. We're not walking, you know, into some house or even some kind of outdoor setting here like a park, right?

We're talking about a vessel that has moved about considerably, has passed through various hands, at the moment in time in which she went missing, how do you go back and reconstruct those circumstances on that vessel at that particular time? Because you have to try to understand the idea of the vessel, particularly if it's pitching in any way, what were the seas like at that particular time, because the environment that the vessel is in is actually impacting the dynamics of what happened to hurt potential.

You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. My gosh. Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish. Right inside the free IHRRA radio app. Gets the blood going up. Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like the Tom Green Farmcast and park the bus.

Now with full video. We're building a ramp for Tony Hawk. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments you've been missing. Right on your screen. Cheers. Open the free IHRRA radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

The Lynette Hooker case and its investigation is not put to rest. Reports the feds are down low, reconstructing the crime scene. And with us tonight, Joe Scott Morgan. It's been six months since the Michigan mom vanished on a sailing vacation with her husband in Bahamas. but now a reconstruction. So Joe Scott, we were talking about the issues of trying to reconstruct the scene in the water. I guess it would start with divers and people that can look at that infrared video, the infrared radar. How would those two factors play into a reconstruction?

Okay, so the divers, particularly, if they're going to be working this, to part in, by the way, folks don't realize this. Within forensic science, there's actually people that do crime scene investigations underwater, all right? And so they would go to the underside of the boat that go, they go on the sail, on the rails, the gunnels, all of that particular area to look for particular evidence. And then wherever she is found, wherever the body would have been recovered from, that would be significant as well, Nancy. Joe Scott, what about the camera? Yeah, so we're talking about a Fleer camera, which is actually on one of the masks. You can clearly see it there.

And this is an infrared camera. And so how does infrared work? Well, if it's tracking somebody, the body actually is a hotspot, right? So you get an idea, it reveals all things, those things that are in the dark, right? Shall be, shall come into the light, if you will. So in an environment where you would not normally, be able to see things, say like on CCTV, if you have a Fleer platform like this that is infrared, it's going to pick up on body heat signatures. So the trick is, did the camera pick up anything that

they can go back, analyze, and potentially reconstruct? And that might be one of the things that we're thinking about relative to her body going over in a particular location. It could give you a geographic location. it could give you the dynamics. When is she seen as opposed to last scene? And also, did she go over the side? Did the camera pick up anything? Or was there someone else involved in this? Was there a scuffle that was involved?

Because you would pick up two separate infrared signatures at that point in time. Joe, Scott, according to Lynette's mother, Darlene Hamlet, Hamlet insists that she believes Lynette Hooker made it back to the boat. not the dingy, the boat, the soulmate that night. She also states that she is limited in what she can say by the Coast Guard. But if that were true, if she did, make it back to the soulmate, what would we be looking for? And could that be what the feds are reconstructing tonight?

Yeah, this has been a big area of concern for me because I'm wondering if there were any injuries on her that would have produced any kind of trace evidence such as blood that might be left behind. And you could actually appreciate an area where you make an initial point of contact, if you're bleeding, if you've left behind trace, that wasn't cleaned up or wasn't caught. As we well know, people that perpetrate crimes, they do it like that. And maybe they'll go back and they'll clean, all right. But they don't have the ability to take the time that people in my field have.

You know, we can take a vessel like this and dry dock it. we can take our time, we can take hours, days, weeks to go over this thing with a fine-tooth comb. Have they seen something there that would give them an indication that if she did, in fact, make re-entry into the boat, what points of contact do they have along there that we might have deposition of any kind of biological sample? Again, according to family members, Lynette made it back to the soul mate that night. It's likely too late for cadaver dogs to do their magic, or is it? And how would they take apart that boat to find evidence, Joe Scott?

It's layer by layer, Nancy. It's like peeling an onion. I hate to be that simplistic, but you have to be very careful on each layer, on each layer that you're talking about, okay, to use the onion analogy. that top the top points of contact. You have to be really careful assessing them. And then you burrow down to the next level. See if there's anything contact trace that is seeped through at that particular area, so forth and so on.

And to your point about cadaver dogs, you're going to have to have, with cadaver dogs, you're going to have to have specific, there's two things that you look for, cadaverine and putrescine that are chemical byproducts that are put off by things that originate from the human body in the state of decomposition. If there is nothing there to pick up on the cadaver dogs are not going to help you at this point in time. Scott, we're also learning tonight that items have been taken reportedly from the soulmate and sent to Quantico.

What does that mean to you? Well, that means that the Coasties have been involved in this for a while. by the way, they've got a fantastic investigative service just in and of themselves. And they can, in fact, avail themselves of the resources that the FBI has. And the FBI, it's vast. When for folks that have, you know, they have always wondered about Quantico, it is the cutting edge relative to forensic analysis. So all of this stuff has been turned over to them. I mean, let's just think about it, Nancy.

Compared to a state where you have a state crime lab, they don't have new. the resources that say the feds have in Quantico to be able to analyze everything. We're talking about trace, any kind of blood evidence, any kind of fiber evidence that might be there, not to mention all of the digital investigative services they have. I think that that might be one of these issues if we begin to think about the Fleer camera that's coming into play here as well. Jessica Morgan, an important piece of the puzzle. If she did go overboard, where?

Could that be part of what the feds are investigating tonight? Yeah, I think that it probably is because if the husband is actually alleging she did go overboard, Nancy, all right? And she did, you know, wind up in this fatal circumstance. I would, the next question I would be asking him is, oh, she went overboard. What's the most likely position she went overboard at? Okay. Tell me, all right? So if he is saying that, well, potentially she went over right here, all right, I'm going to go over that area, particularly intensely.

As a matter of fact, if there's railing there, I might take the whole damn thing apart, bring that back to the lab. Any points of contact around the lower edges of the boat internally and externally because if somebody flips over, you begin to think about them doing a head strike on the side of the boat. if she was bleeding prior to that in any way, if she had been traumatized in any way, is there a point of contact that would have left behind something in that particular area? I would want to ask any witness that may have information about this, and they're saying she went overboard, I'd want to know, well, tell me exactly how you think this happened, where did it occur, and maybe they can harvest some information from that point. If you know or think you know anything regarding Lynette's disappearance, dial toll-free 800-4248802.

We remember an American hero trooper Kenneth Veles, Ohio State Patrol, killed in the line of duty after 27 years on the force, leaving behind his wife, Rachel, and children, Devin, Christian, and Andrea, American hero trooper Kenneth Veles. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you, for you. being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-heart podcast, guaranteed human.