Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Three arrests in Mom Crystal Rogers Death, but WHERE IS CRYSTAL?

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

It's been eight years since Crystal Roger went missing. Her then-boyfriend, Brooks Houck, immediately became the main suspect. The mom of five was last seen at Houck's home. Rogers' car was found abandoned with a flat tire on the Bluegrass Parkway two days later. Her keys, phone, and purse were inside the vehicle. Houck was interviewed, but not arrested. Now, Houck has been charged with murder and tampering with evidence.  Houck's bond has been set at $10 million cash. Houck's attorneys appealed the bond ruling, but they ruled against Houck. This is the third arrest related to Crystal Rogers' disappearance. 32-year-old Joseph L. Lawson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence in the case. Lawson has pleaded not guilty. His connection to this case is not yet known, but Lawson's father worked for Houck. Lawson's father has also been charged. Rogers’ body has not been found. Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski – Forensic Psychologist, Author: “Darksides;” FB: forensicsandmediapsychologist/TikTok: Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder & Host of New Podcast: “Zone 7;” Twitter: @149Zone7 Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter: @JoScottForensic Fallon Glick – WDRB Louisville News Reporter; Facebook & Twitter: @FallonGlick @WDRBNews Jessica Noll -  Podcaster: "Bardstown" Shay McAlister - reporter WHAS,  podcaster "Bardstown" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom goes missing and it took years before her boyfriend, the father of one of her children, is finally arrested for murder in the last hours. Two major rulings in the Crystal Rogers case. Kentucky's highest courts rule against the boyfriend, Brooks Houck. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and Sirius XM 111.

In the last days, a pair of appellate court decisions go against Brooks Houck, charged with the murder of Crystal Rogers, this beautiful Bardstown mom of five, reported missing July 2015, the last one to see her alive, claiming he fell asleep beside her in bed and woke up and poof, she was gone. Did anybody really believe that? In the last days, the Kentucky Appeals Court rules how it will stay in jail on a $10 million bond, and that's just where he needs to be. I agree with the court. His lawyers filed an appeal just hours after Howick's judge said the bond was reasonable to assure he would not flee. The Court of Appeals reviewed the ruling and affirmed it. But why? What are the facts surrounding this case?

With me right now, investigative journalist, podcast producer Jessica Knoll. With me, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville. They are responsible for Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at www.bardstownpodcast.com. To you, Jessica, tell me about Crystal Rogers. Who is she? Who was she? Well, Crystal Rogers is a 35-year-old mother of five.

She had lived and grown up in Bardstown her whole life. And she was dating a man by the name of Brooks Houck. They had a child together and she seemingly vanished July 3rd, 2015. And her car was found on the popular roadway through Kentucky, Bluegrass Parkway, a couple days later. And her purse, her cell phone, everything that a woman would keep with her was found in her car, her unlocked car. And she's not been seen since. And as of right now, we don't know what has become of Crystal Rogers. If she's dead, we don't know her mode of death or cause of death.

Take a listen to this. You had a little fire. When was that? After you took your walk or before you took your walk? I know we fed the cows first because I want to do that as quickly while we have still plenty of daylight. I don't know if I lit the fire before we walked back here or right when I got back. I could have done it either way. I don't remember. After the fire and with their toddler in tow, Brooks says he and Crystal take a walk. Did you go straight home on Friday night,

or did y'all stop somewhere? Because I'm thinking if that's their normal 7, 8 o'clock in the evening, it might be dinner time. Did you stop and eat something, or did you go straight home? We did not eat anything. I went straight home. Okay. You're hearing the boyfriend, Brooks Houck, and he's speaking to Detective Snow. Now, let me understand something.

To Shea McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville, the boyfriend says he goes for a walk with Crystal and the little baby at midnight? That's what he tells police. He says they went down to feed the cows. But Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, has had a big problem with this since the beginning. She says that it was very rainy that night and there's just no way Crystal would have wanted to be walking around the farm, much less with her baby. Whose farm was it? It was Houck's mom's farm. So Brooks Houck's mom, Rosemary Houck, has a huge farm on the outskirts of Bardstown. That's where they say they were. So did Brooks Houck's mother see Crystal there with the baby that night? We don't have any kind

of recordings of her police interviews and she has never given us an interview. I don't know. Have you tried? Have you tried to talk to her? Yeah, we have tried to talk to her. We've seen her in court multiple times over the years. She's always there when Brooks is in court or at custody hearings for that little boy. And we have definitely tried to talk to her. Very interesting.

So she's on a date, I guess you could call it, with her boyfriend and he thinks it's a good thing to take her to feed the cows at midnight with the baby. Do I, am I understanding this correctly, Jessica Knoll? That is correct. But I, what's interesting about the clip that you just ran, and someone pointed out that he actually says in that clip, I went home.

He doesn't say we, which I thought was kind of interesting for someone to hear when they were listening to that. Because I didn't pick that up. He says we didn't get anything to eat, but then he says I went home. Take a listen to Brooks Houck and Detective Snow. I probably woke up around, you know, in between that time, like 6 or 7 o'clock, and then I left, you know, I did my normal thing, you know, changed my clothes, put my clothes on and headed out, you know, shortly after that, you know. So you get up between 6 and 7, and where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me.

He's in the bed with you. Mm-hmm. Okay. So you get up, does he get up with you? He's still asleep whenever I get up, but I go to, you know, the bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he gets up. Yes, I noticed that she wasn't there.

I didn't know exactly what to think. I don't know what time I called her. Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he probes. If I woke up on a Saturday morning, and my wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal,

if she were not, probably the first thing I would do would be to call her to find out where she was. Interesting. You are hearing Brooks Houck, the boyfriend of Crystal Rogers, the father of their child, and Detective Snow speaking. I'm going to circle back to what we were just listening to but take a listen to our friends is wdrb my mother crystal rogers went missing and still no answers brooks hawk was named the number one suspect in my daughter's disappearance and it

makes me feel good to think that people out there believe the same thing that I do. It refers to a statement Brooks Houck made to WDRB. I've been advised, you know, to ride the wave and keep on keeping on. And that's what I've done, and it's worked out great this far. They know in their heart what happened. That's where our friends at WDRB. Jackie, could you play Cut 3 one more time? I probably woke up around, you know, in between that time, like 6 or 7 o'clock, and then I left, you know, I did my normal thing, you know, changed my clothes,

put my clothes on, and headed out, you know, shortly after that, you know. So you get up between 6 and 7, and where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me. He's in the bed with you. Okay. So you get up, does he get up with you? He's still, he's still asleep whenever I, whenever I get up, but I go to, you know, the bathroom and all that kind of stuff and he's still's still sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he gets up. Yes, I noticed. I mean, I noticed that she wasn't there. I didn't know what was, I didn't know exactly what to think.

I don't know what time I called her. Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause. If I woke up on a Saturday morning and my wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal, if she were not, probably the first thing I would do would be to call her to find out where she was. Shane McAllister, I'm hearing them talking about the Houck brothers. There's more than one of them. Yes, there is. There are two Houck brothers. There's Nick Houck, the older of the

two. He was a Bardstown police officer when Crystal went missing. And then his younger brother, Brooks Houck, was Crystal's boyfriend. So is the brother still with the police force? He is not. He was fired just a few months after Crystal went missing. Nick interfered with the investigation. He actually called his brother Brooks while he was in an interrogation room with police. As a matter of fact, take a listen to this. The interview is interrupted when Brooks gets a call from his older brother, Nick Houck, the Bardstown police officer. Can I get this? Sure, please. Hello? I'm up here.

I know that you didn't know. I'm up here in this interview with the detective, Detective Snow. I've been up here a good little while. I'm filling out this statement here and everything. Are you telling me that's what I need to do? I know I'm not. I know that. But the way that I look at it is I'm innocent.

I ain't done nothing wrong. I know you've told me innocent people have got jammed up, but if you're telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave. If you want me to... I know I'm going through a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy to help me. I don't think she's ran off with some other guy. I don't believe that. You can't make me think that. Yeah, I mean, so do I.

I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do right now. You want me to get up and leave? Well, that's exactly what he did. That's Brooks Houck, the boyfriend, the lover of Crystal Rogers, now missing with Detective Snow. And as a matter of fact, he did get up and leave. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, a lot of people thought since Hawk had seemingly gotten away with murder since 2015, that he would be out of jail in no time and no bond could hold him. Hold on just a

moment. He's sitting tight in jail. A Kentucky appeals court has ruled against him, affirming his $10 million bond. The facts behind this case, so upsetting. Officer Houck calls his brother and tells him to leave. After that, Nick Houck's boss, the police chief, orders him to talk to detectives. And according to an FBI polygraph examiner who tells Nick Houck in a police interrogation video, quote, it's pretty clear you haven't told me the complete truth and the questions you're having problems with are questions about Crystal in particular, whether or not you know where she is right now. Explain that to me, Jessica. Know what happened to the FBI polygraph examiner tells Nick Houck, the police officer at that time, that he is not being truthful with him. And it that whole interaction just really begins to escalate. And he at one point asks him, as Nick is getting audibly frustrated with him because

he's calling him a liar, essentially. At one point, the FBI polygraph examiner says, is this how you acted towards Crystal? And he obviously begins yelling at that point. So there is something, and you know better than us that polygraph examinations aren't always 100%, but telling him something, about him having any involvement. He was not being truthful according to their examination. Take a listen to this. Well, Nick, I've had a chance to review your charts on that first test. You did not pass the test.

And it's pretty clear to me that you haven't told me the complete truth to that. And the questions you're having a problem with are questions about Crispin, and in particular one about whether or not you know where she is right now. And I treat police officers in these circumstances like I would myself, so I'm not going to go through all the interview interrogation nonsense. You and I are on the same page. But, again again i'm also going to tell you the complete truth as we're sitting here and it's no longer a matter

of wondering do you know anything about what happened we're past that now i mean i'm crystal clear with you i give everybody a good fair test i'm no longer asking you if you know you do um now what you want to do with that is entirely up to you i'm going to yell and scream at you and get the sick with the phone book and all that i'm talking to you man-to-man as a fellow law enforcement officer uh that the time has come for you to think real hard about the rest of your life this is you i'm not talking about brooks or anybody else uh and i'm telling you facts of life i'm an guy, I'm not trying to be a father figure here, but I'll tell you, I've been doing this for 25 years, the way that this pans out. When the FBI gets involved in this investigation, I want you to listen to what I'm saying, you don't have to say anything to me, I can do whatever you want to do.

As I said, we, you may never even be an FBI agent, alright? But once you get on the radar, we don't go away unless there's a reason to. I thought there would be. You didn't pass this and there's some other information there as well. So I guarantee you we're not going away. The FBI has unlimited resources in terms of forensic information, electronic information, many bodies as one of poor attributes of surveillance and look at everything that's ever gone on. We will find Crystal. I have zero doubt about that. On July 15th, 2015, detectives also revealed to Nick they found bodily fluids

inside his police cruiser. The day after, he and Brooks leave the station together and drive to their mom's farm. Have you ever heard of luminol? You ever been in any kind of criminal investigation? All right, you know what luminol is used for? To find blood?

Okay. Or other bodily fluids. Bodily fluids. Okay. So we all excrete bodily fluids, sweat, you know, vomit, anything, you know, saliva. All that is what would fluoresce. Why would your trunk look like a smurf if they sprayed it? Why would it fluoresce?

I mean, it'd look like Chernobyl. There's a couple spots in your trunk and that blanket, I mean, just lit up like Chernobyl. Why would that? There's not going to be any blood in the trunk. Okay, well, I'm not saying blood. I'm talking about other bodily fluids. I don't have blood. There shouldn't be any bodily fluids in the trunk. Okay, well, I didn't say blood. I'm talking about other bodily fluids. I don't have blood. There shouldn't be any bodily fluids in the trunk.

Whoa. It's not going to be any blood. Well, that tells me right there that there's a strong possibility she was asphyxiated. There's not going to be any blood. That's the first thing you said. And again, everyone has said they're not guilty, that they're innocent in this case, and they have a right to a trial by jury. You know, in many big jurisdictions, and I assume this is true in small as well, cars are cleaned out at the end of every patrol with cleaner. Let me ask you something. To Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist, podcast producer, Shane McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS Louisville, were the fluids left in the patrol car tested? And if so, did they match Crystal Rogers? Again, Nancy, a really great question. What we know is what we have heard in these recordings with police. The police, the KSP, I believe the testing may have been done by the FBI,

are being very tight-lipped about what they have found, both in the car, in the searches they've done, which you'll hear about this week. They're not telling us what they found or any test results that have come back. Wow. Okay. Question to Shea McAllister. So according to the boyfriend, okay, how Crystal Rogers and the baby are there at his mom's farm that evening. He takes them at midnight to walk down to the cow barn and take care of the cows. They come, he goes, I come home. And then he says the next morning, Crystal is gone. When did he report her missing? Brooks Houck never reports her missing. Actually, her mom reports her missing a few days later when she's had trouble reaching her over the phone. And when she actually runs into Brooks Houck in town, she asks Brooks,

hey, have you seen Crystal? Where do you think she is? And Brooks said, no, I haven't seen her. And Sherry says, well, then I'm going to go report her missing. And Brooks says, yeah, I think you should do that take a listen to Brooks how speaking to detective snow on this very issue Brooks runs into Crystal's mom I met her mother at the gas station somewhere one of them days her mother Sherry, Crystal's mother, Sherry came up here to my window and asked me if I had seen Crystal. And when you told her what, I haven't seen her, don't know where she is, and she just said okay and asked me to go? No, she thought that the wisest thing for us to do was she said she was going to go to the police station.

And then I went home. Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing persons report at the Nelson County Sheriff's Office around 3 p.m. Two hours later, her father, Tommy, gets a call. Crystal's car has been found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes and uncovers her keys, phone, and purse inside. Brooks tells Detective Snow that he wasn't concerned until Sunday because she'd, quote, done this before. Welcome back. In the last hours, a guy that seemingly got away with the murder

of a mom of five, Crystal Rogers, will stay behind bars, according to a high court in Kentucky. Take a listen to this. It's an arrest that has everyone's attention. Brooks Houck, Crystal Rogers' boyfriend, and the main suspect in her disappearance charged with her murder and tampering with physical evidence. According to the indictment, the charges stem from an incident July 4th weekend of 2015, just days before Crystal's car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway with her keys, phone and purse inside.

He was named the main suspect within three months, but never charged until today. Why so long? You were just hearing our friends at WHAS. It's been a long time coming. And you know what's so irritating? You know, Cheryl McCollum is joining me, director of the Cold Case Research Institute and star of a hit new series, Zone 7. When I hear, and I've heard it over and over, countless cases, Cheryl McCollum, quote, everybody knew. I mean, since day one, everyone said Brooks Houck is the killer. Why did it take so long? And to you, Cheryl McCollum, have you ever had those cases? And you have to tell every single witness. It doesn't matter

what everybody says, because very often what everybody says is not true. That's not the killer. It turns out to be someone completely different. But in this case, it's true. Since the whole thing went down, he has been suspect number one. He's been suspect only one. There hasn't been anybody else. But it's one of those situations, what you know and what you can prove is not the same thing. So hasn't been anybody else. But it's one of those situations, what you know and what you could prove is not the same thing. So they had to be patient. They had to work this case from every angle, which is what they did. They got him once for theft. They got people that were close to him for perjury. They even pressed grandma so hard she invoked her Fifth Amendment. So they have worked this thing beautifully as long as they possibly could.

Cheryl McCollum, you got to give them credit. It takes a lot of doing to come down so hard on a granny. She takes the fifth. Right on. That is some serious, serious questioning. That's straight up good police work. Yeah. The so-called boyfriend of Crystal Rogers has been arrested and it has been a long time coming. Take a listen to WHAS 11.

Federal investigators accused Hauk of intentionally causing the death of Crystal Rogers and destroying, concealing, mutilating, or removing physical evidence in connection to the crime. He was arrested without incident while on a job site outside of Bardstown. Joining me right now, anchor WDRB out of Louisville, Fallon Glick. Thank you for being with us. Fallon, tell me about the arrest. Well, Brooke Tauch, her former boyfriend, he was arrested at a work site, and then he was

then taken to the Nelson County Jail. We have video of him in handcuffs walking into the jail. He was taken to another county jail called the Harding County Jail. And that is where he is staying currently. And he's not going to get out unless he posts that $10 million cash-only bond. Okay, $10 million cash bond. James Shelnut, that's unlike a lot of bonds where you can put, for instance, your house down as collateral. You get a $100,000 bond. You've got to come up with $10,000 money or collateral like a home. But a $10 million bond, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

No, it's not going to happen anytime soon. And, you know, a lot of times with severe cases, you do see a cash bond, but even with a cash bond, that's a pretty high cash bond. They must feel pretty confident in the case that they've got against him. And so must the judge to set the bond that high. I mean, get real, shall not. If the guy has managed to outsmart police for this many years and the disappearance and death of his girlfriend, Crystal Rogers, I wouldn't let him set one toe outside of that jailhouse because he could very likely slip away. I wouldn't let him set sit outside the jail either. You know, this guy has sat and committed potentially a crime against a mother of five children. He's covered it up. He's played games. And this guy has shown he's dangerous and he's a danger to the community. And a danger to

any potential witnesses is why I would let him out on bond. And you said the case is so severe, it calls for a high cash bond. What do you mean by that? And what is a cash bond as opposed to a regular bond, Shelnut? Well, it's severe because he's accused of murdering a mother of five, of potentially covering this murder up, taking steps. You know, additionally, you know, we've got some implications as to involvement in some other situations as well. And the cash bond is set so that a judge can ensure that, yeah, I'm not giving him a no bond, so I'm going to meet the basic constitutional requirements of providing bail.

But I will tell you this, if you're going to get out, we're going to be pretty sure that you're coming back. Okay, let me Q&A with myself for just a moment. James Shelnut was asked, what's the difference in a cash bond and a regular bond? Again, in a regular bond, you can put a collateral like the value of your home. You can put up, for instance, real estate in a cash bond. You gotta have cold, hard cash. Everything else Shelnut said was dead on.

Guys, this has been one long, drawn out investigation. I want you to take a listen to Monica Harkins, WDRB. We saw the car pull in through the fence. As he got out of the car, I asked, where is Crystal Rogers? He didn't say anything as he entered the back of the jail. The Nelson County jailer was also on hand. You know, Fallon Glick joining me, anchor WDRB. Why did the FBI have to be brought in to solve this case? What about local law enforcement?

What's the problem, Fallon Glick? Well, local law enforcement, the sheriff's office, they have been on this since day one. And I think they just didn't have enough resources to pull this case together. And we know Sherry Ballard, the mother of Crystal Rogers, she has been the true champion for her daughter's case, keeping it in the spotlight. And, you know, very soon after her daughter disappeared, she asked the FBI to come and please take over this case. And that didn't happen until five years later. So the FBI, they've been on the case now for three years. And when they come in that late, they have more work to do because they weren't there from day one. And so it has taken a lot of time to pull all this evidence together because we know

they've executed so many search warrants at the Houck family properties, the Houck family farm. You know, that's a 300 acre farm. So they have been there several times. And then not too long ago, they were at a home that Brooks Houck has built and they dug up the driveway, collected a ton of evidence there. So the evidence that the FBI has had to sort through is unimaginable. I know the prosecutor is saying that they have to turn over two terabytes worth of information in this case. So just a lot to go through here. We don't know what any of that evidence is, but two terabytes worth. It's a lot. Back to the question.

Cheryl McCollum joining us from Zone 7. Cheryl McCollum, I was asking why the feds had to be brought in. That was the question. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Cheryl McCollum, but didn't the boyfriend have relatives and or friends on the local police force? Correct. Nick Hout. And he was fired, actually, for interfering with a police investigation. This investigation? This investigation. Absolutely. So bringing the FBI, I think, was the right call for a multitude of reasons. It appeared we had a kidnapping because her car was found somewhere else with the keys and cell phone and purse.

So, you know, they can do things rapidly that some local law enforcement maybe cannot do. But in this situation, you have someone that was the boyfriend who was the last person to be seen with her alive. He was visiting his family farm with her at the time. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of the hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, when you have a police officer on your force that is related to or connected to the suspect, the defendant, the person of interest, any of that. And that person has the opportunity, has been given the opportunity to tamper with evidence or impede the investigation in any way. You screwed up. The whole kit and caboodle has screwed up. The whole kit and caboodle has screwed up. If you have allowed an officer

access to information, access to evidence, access or opportunity to pull strings behind the scenes, oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. That's why you got to have the FBI in. Forget about the cars found in another location. Yes, which means a kidnapping. Yes, which is under FBI jurisdiction. But still, you had a cohort of the defendant on the police force pulling strings. It stinks, Morgan. It stinks. Yes, it does. And here's the thing. When you think about an investigative team like in this particular case, we have the locals.

They're within a bubble. They're within their own investigative bubble. And it's kind of a closed loop where that information kind of circles around within that environment. You got the prosecutor and everybody else that's in there. When you bring in the FBI, they're outside of that bubble. But that's a good thing because their investigation is running parallel. And think about the FBI is this, having worked many cases with them. They like to get information, but not a lot flows back out of them because they keep their own closed loop. Can I boil that down for you, Joe Scott, they don't give a flying fig what anybody in town thinks, whose second cousin related to Mama Sass and blah, blah, blah. They don't care.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Boyfriend, lover, Brooks Houck will stay behind bars on a $10 million bond now charged in the murder of his girlfriend, the mother of five, beautiful Crystal Rogers. Take a listen to this. Crystal Rogers, the mother of five, disappeared in July of 2015. In October of that year, the Nelson County Sheriff's Office named her boyfriend, Brooks Houck, the main suspect. He was never arrested or charged. The FBI ripped up the driveway of a home Houck built,

and just last year, the FBI was back at the Houck farm for a five-day search. On June 21st of this year, another man, Joseph Lawson, was indicted for tampering with physical evidence in the Rogers case. On July 24th, Lawson was indicted on a conspiracy to commit murder charge. We have learned Lawson's dad worked for Houck. On September 7th, Lawson pleaded not guilty in Nelson Circuit Court. You were hearing our friends at WDRB. Who is the co-defendant Joseph Lawson? Back to Fallon Glick. And what do we believe his involvement is? Well, it's really still unclear what exactly his involvement was, but we know his father, Steve Lawson, had called Brooks Haug the night Crystal disappeared. And that phone call, Brooks Haug was asked about that phone call

during his police interrogation, and he didn't really seem to remember what it was about. So he called Steve Lawson and said, hey, do you remember what I was calling you about that night? And he goes, oh, sure. He wanted a number for a house because he builds homes and he has all these rental properties. And so it was a late night phone call, only lasted several seconds. And Mr. Lawson had said he needed something from Crystal. And then the detective asked well if Crystal was right with you in the truck why didn't you just ask her then and he said oh we would just figure out on Monday what he wanted. So it was it was a suspicious

phone call. And now that father Stephen Lawson has been arrested as well. He has been indicted by a grand jury with criminal conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence. To Dr. Jeff Kaliszewski, forensic psychologist and author of Dark Sides, weigh in. So one of the things when people are trying to recollect an experience or an incident, when you are trying to fabricate it in your mind in the moment, in other words, you're trying to create the lies during the moment, you're going to miss things. You're going to have these blocks of times. You may have went into that interview already having your lie planned out in your head. But once you're under police interrogation, they're going to ask you questions you didn't anticipate and that you had not created the false answer for.

So it's quite hallmark when a suspect is in an interrogation and they are guilty. They're not going to know how to answer many of these questions. They're going to show blocks of time. They're going to have incomplete answers and sometimes even contradict themselves. I also question Brooke Houck about his reaction when Crystal didn't show up to a get-together, a July 4th get-together. His, let me just say, nonchalant, and that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. Listen. Brooks, did you go on to the July the 4th get-together that day? Yes, I did. Even though you didn't know where she was?

I was expecting, I put in a phone call that morning and then around lunch. And usually the maximum period of time that she has stayed gone has only been like a day to a day and a half at the most. And as a result of that, I thought that she has stayed gone has only been like a day to a day and a half at the most. And as a result of that, I thought that she would. Did you try to call her? I'm sorry, I didn't hear you, ma'am. Did you try to call her during that time? Not while I was there, there at the at the fourth. And I called her prior to leading to head in that direction. Yes, ma'am. So when she doesn't show up to a party, a big party that Crystal was supposed to attend, when she doesn't show up, he does nothing?

On an investigation, Nancy, I usually keep two lists, what they did and what they didn't do. This list of what he did not do, he didn't report her missing. Her mama did. He doesn't call around her family and everybody else saying, hey, where is she? We got these five kids. Somebody needs to help me take care of. He doesn't do that. He don't search for her. He don't demand that the police help find her. He doesn't even today demand that the police find the real killer. He's not making a plea right now saying y'all got the wrong person.

Who called 911 in this case, Fallon Glick, WDRB? Who called to report her missing? Oh, it was the mom, Terry Ballard. She called her and reported her missing. And that same day, she saw Brooks Houck in a parking lot somewhere because they just always seem to run into each other. It's a small town.

And he just seemed very unconcerned that she was, in fact, missing. And I want to point out, too, when you're kind of talking about it, just not answering questions during the interrogation. And police have said about him and his brother, they both had convenient cases of amnesia because whenever they asked about something unrelated to Crystal, they gave very detailed answers. Yeah. Anytime they could trash Crystal, you mean? Anytime they could say something bad about her, they would. They had all that memorized, all of her movements

were memorized, but they couldn't say a thing about what their movements were during their lapses of memory. Is the death of Crystal Rogers connected to a bigger picture? Take a listen to our cut 212WHAS11. They are three of Kentucky's most high-profile unsolved cases. The ambush killing of Bardstown police officer Jason Ellis, disappearance of mother of five Crystal Rogers, and fatal shooting of Rogers' dad, Tommy Ballard. The FBI previously made it clear they are the lead on the Rogers case, but investigating all three, saying this in a one-on-one interview back in 2020. It is very rare to have all of these types of cases which are potentially connected in a small community. To Cheryl McCollum, what would the connection of the other cases be to Crystal Rogers?

Nancy, again, I think we have to look at all of these people that are connected. So you've got Brooks, you've got his brother, you've got the co-worker and his father, you've got grandma, you've got Singleton. All of these people have things in common, whether it's making phone calls, the perjury, the theft, the lying, you know, keeping these secrets since 2015. So you have to wonder, why would Singleton get 38 charges of perjury? Why would this co-worker accept these phone calls that did not tell anybody? Why are they talking about these rental properties? So all of these dots, you're going to have to connect with these people that chose for eight years to not come forward, not tell what they know, but dig themselves into a deeper hole. To you, Fanny Glick, what is the possible connection between Crystal Rogers' case

and the other murders? So family and a lot of the community, they believe that Tommy Ballard, Crystal's dad, was so involved in trying to find Crystal and doing his own interrogation and investigation to find his daughter. They believe that Tommy Ballard probably would have figured it out himself. And they believe that he was killed because maybe he was getting close to finding something out that he shouldn't have. And then the days leading up to his death, Sherry Ballard, his wife, said he felt like he was being followed. And what about the law enforcement officer? Sure. Nick Houck, who we talked about, who got fired by the police chief, he worked the same shift as Jason Ellis, who was ambushed and killed on his drive home from work one night

when he saw some debris on the road, got out to move these tree limbs off the road, and that's when he got shot multiple times and killed. Execution style. And he worked on the same shift with the defendant boyfriend's brother on the force. Wonder what he knew from working that shift. Wonder what, if anything, he knew. We wait as all of these facts unfold. Goodbye, friend.

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