Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Three tot-boys found dead in one home, years apart. Coincidence? NO!

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

27-year-old Brittany Pilkington's three sons die in the span of 13 months. Niall is first, and then Gavin, both in 2014. In 2015, Noah dies. What happened?Joining Nancy Grace to discuss:Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, GeorgiaSteven Lampley - Former Detective, Author "Outside Your Door"Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst Dr Michelle Dupre - Medical Examiner & Author of “Homicide Investigation Field Guide”Levi Page Investigative Reporter Crime Online Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Not one, not two, but three tiny boys dead. Three-month-old Noah, four-year-old Gavin, another infant, Niall, all dead, but separated in space and time. How did that happen? I can only point the finger at one person, Mommy, And I want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 911, what is your emergency? Yes, we have an emergency.

Our little infant, He's not breathing at all. Okay, can you start CPR? Yes, my wife's trying. Keep going. Who are we talking about? How old a patient? He's three months. Okay, what happened prior to this? I don't know. I just got home and I went to check my son and he's cold. He's cold to the touch? He's getting cold to the touch, yes. Okay, is she doing CPR? Is someone doing CPR? Yes, my wife is, but I mean... I found him 20. What is your name, sir? My name is Joseph Wilkinson. My son's name is Nile.

Okay, I have help on the right, sir, but I want to stay on the phone with you. Is anything happening with the CPR? No. Nothing's happening? His lips are white. His lips are white? Yes. Come on, honey. Keep going. Is he crying or anything? No. Nothing's happening. Lips are white. His lips are white? Yes. Come on, honey. Keep going. Is he crying or anything? No. Niall, come on, baby. Keep going. I hope the ambulance is on its way.

Yeah, they're on their way. What's your wife's name? My wife's name is Brittany. Okay, is she still doing the compression? Is anything happening? Yes. She's very pale. Is that him? That's my son, Gavin. Oh, okay. Let's go back in the other room now. Jameson Keller or anything like that? No, he's pale. He's white. Let's go back in here, please. My wife, Anne Burton, is helping.

How is she doing? Is the compression helping? She's doing it, ma'am, but his arms are purple now. Nothing. Has he got a pulse now? No? No pulse? There is no pulse.

No pulse? Oh, that is bone-chilling. The 911 call made by Joe Pilkington to report his little three-month-old baby son, Niles, is actually turning purple. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and believe you me, I want answers. An all-star panel to break it down, put it back together. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, inner city Atlanta and throughout the U.S. Steve Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door. Renowned psychoanalyst out of L.A., Dr. Bethany Marshall. Medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Michelle Dupree,

and CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page, Crime Online, where you can find this and all other breaking crime and justice news. I typically go to my reporter for a download first with Levi Page, but to Dr. Michelle Dupree, an infant's arms are purple. What does that mean? Nancy, that's the worst sign you can possibly have. The child is becoming anoxic, or in other words, he is not getting enough oxygen. And the peripheral parts or the distal parts of his body are beginning to turn purple, lack of oxygen. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Dr. Michelle Dupree, okay, you are a medical examiner you are an MD

you have performed autopsies on literally thousands of people you're just the kind of doctor just the kind of medical examiner that would shudder when they would see my beat up Honda pulling into the parking lot because I would have to convince you to somehow dummy down everything you're saying. I don't know what you just said. It's like you're talking, well, you are talking Latin. So Dr. Michelle Dupree, break it down for me, please. Because I know if I don't understand, Daryl Cohen certainly does not understand. Okay. So what did you just say? Sorry, Daryl. I just couldn't, I couldn't help myself. I don't blame you at all. Y'all are so good, but you're consistent.

So what I was saying, Nancy, is that when the child is turning blue, they're basically turning blue because they're not getting enough oxygen. They're not breathing properly. So the distance... Well, what's the difference in blue and purple, or is there a difference? It's just a matter of degrees. The darker the blue the less oxygen now you said something else it seemed to me i couldn't quite make it out in your latin rant that it seems like you were saying something about um the part the distant parts of your body

such as your toes and your fingers your arms arms turning blue or purple? Well, yes, they can be turning blue or purple also because as the body pumps blood with oxygen, it goes to the distant parts of the body, which is your extremities or your fingers and your toes. So they will also start to be turning purple. What turns purple first? What turns purple first? I know that these sound like kindergarten questions to you.

But when someone is dying from, as you said, they're becoming anoxic. They're running out of oxygen in their body. For instance, when you go to the doctor and the first thing they do is they put that little clip on your finger. And it says, it gives a percentage, I guess, about how much oxygen you're taking in. You're not getting any oxygen. What part of your body turns blue or purple first, Dr. Dupree? Well, we're talking in this case about central cyanosis or central turning blue, which means that the reason we're turning blue is a central issue, our lungs. We're not getting enough oxygen in our lungs. Our fingers and toes begin to turn purple if it is something like an outside force,

like being cold or frostbite. So in this case, the child is not getting enough oxygen internally to the lungs. So typically when you're not getting enough oxygen and you're not having frostbite. Correct. Do your lips turn blue? Does your face turn blue first? What turns blue first? Your face. Your lips are going to be turning blue first.

So by the time your arms are purple, you've gone a long time without oxygen. Yes, and again, your arms are going to be turning purple when you have frostbite or something of an external force. But this child had not been outside. It's just a three-month-old baby boy. So if he hadn't been outside and exposed to the elements, why would his arms be purple? Nancy, if they're purple, that may not be from cyanosis. That may be from something that we call liver mortis, which is basically settling of the blood because there is no blood being pumped. The child may be- Are you saying liver mortis? I always thought it was liver mortis so

it's liver mortis liver or liver depending on how you pronounce it okay now what i know about that is when i've found dead bodies or come upon dead bodies on crime scenes and the body had been there for a period of time your blood is no longer pumping. Your heart's not working. So your blood's not pumping through your body, and it all starts to settle. It's like pouring water in a glass. It goes to the bottom of the glass first and fills up. Your blood sinks to the lowest point your body happens. If you're lying on your back, it goes down to your rear end and the back of your legs and back and arms.

If you're standing up, which doesn't make sense, but if you were and you had been killed, it would go down to your feet and your knees and your legs. If you're face down, the blood would go to your face and your stomach and your chest and the front of your legs. That's what I believe to be liver mortis. Rigor mortis is when your limbs start to actually harden up, lock up. Do I have that right, Dr. Dupree? Yes, Nancy, that's exactly correct. Okay. Now see, that's why medical examiners hide when they see my car pull up,

because there's going to be a lot of kindergarten questions that I have. So I guess what I'm trying to, in a very circuitous way, Dr. Dupree, ask is if this child's arm this baby's arms are already purple is he dead is the baby dead nancy yes in most likely cases the child is already deceased and has been for a while take a listen to part of the unedited 911 call from Dad Joe Pilkington. Anything happening with the CPR? No. Nothing's happening. Is she doing the CPR correctly?

Yes, she's still doing it. Her lips are white. Her lips are white? Yes. Okay, we'll do two breaths and 30 compressions, okay? Two breaths and 30 compressions. Make sure the airway is clear. Tilt his head back and you put him in the palm of your hand, like on your forearm,

and push down in the middle of his chest with two fingers. Okay? Keep going, honey. Keep going. Is he crying or anything? No. Niall, come on, baby. Keep going. Not too much.

Is anything happening? You want me to get up with you? No, my son. I hope the ambulance doesn't want to play. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, is he still doing the compressions? Is anything happening? Yes. He's very pale. Is that him? That's my son, Gavin. Oh, okay.

Let's go back in the other room now. Go. All right, well, keep the compressions going. Is he changing color or anything like that? What? Is he changing color or anything like that? No, he's pale. He's white. Okay, still do the compressions, okay?

Yeah. There's a whole other way of performing CPR on an infant than you would on an adult i remember having to take that class before they allowed us to bring the twins home from the NICU i'm nancy grace this is crime stories what happened to this little three-month-old baby niles straight out to crime online.com investigative reporter Levi Page so we've been through a Dr. Michelle Dupree and I'm trying to still figure out right now exactly what is the COD cause of death on this baby Levi what do we know the coroner ruled that the death was undetermined that's very difficult for me to believe that the cause of death with the baby

turning blue is undetermined what about the other sons how many children did this family have levi so there's three month old niall there's four year old gavin and then there's three-month-old Niall. There's four-year-old Gavin. And then there's three-year-old Noah and then a little girl. So there's three-month-old Noah. But it's my understanding Noah was found dead. About a year after Niall's. And then four-year-old son Gavin also found dead um just a few months before Noah so there was Nile baby Nile N-I-A-L-L died as you said um that was July 2014.

Then there was four-year-old son Gavin in April of 2015, not quite a year later. And then August 2015, a few months after Gavin died, Noah was found dead. I find it very difficult to believe that all of these children died of natural causes. Maybe one of them. Take a listen to our friend at Fox 45, ABC 22 reporter Kelly May. Well, Brittany Pilkington didn't say anything or show any emotion here in Bell Fountain. And while her father was in tears, but tonight we've learned from her former babysitter that Brittany Pilkington didn't even cry at the funerals for her first two sons. Three toys for three little boys at the front door of the Bell Fountain apartment where police say all three were suffocated to death. Yeah, it's going to be rough. Yeah, as you guys seen today, it was rough on me today. Brittany's father, Ed Cummins, shaken up, his head in his hands,

but on Pilkington's face, no emotion. She was always kind of quiet and weird around me, but I just couldn't imagine anyone killing their kids. With her mom's permission, we talked to this teen who didn't want to show her face, but says she regularly babysat Pilkington's kids. With her mom's permission, we talked to this teen who didn't want to show her face, but says she regularly babysat Pilkington's kids at four-year-old Gavin's funeral in April. As soon as we walked in, mom and I looked at her and she didn't seem emotional at all throughout the service. Me and my mom were both crying and she, I never saw a tear in her eye. She never seemed like it faced her whatsoever. To Daryl Cohen, a defense attorney joining me out of the city of Atlanta, Daryl Cohen, I would absolutely pay attention to a mother

showing no emotion at her child, her baby's funeral. But I've been called on it in court many, many times claiming that that shows nothing, that quote, there is no playbook for mourning or grieving. I guess you're going to jump on that bandwagon. Well, Nancy, maybe I could understand it for one, because she's absolutely in shock, but two, no, I don't buy it. I don't lease it. I don't rent it. It doesn't fly. It just doesn't fly. And you're right. There is no playbook on emotion.

There's no playbook on sadness and on grief. But there is a playbook on life. And this woman is beyond belief. The fact that she's showing no emotion may mean a number of things, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Well, it could mean that she is glad that the babies are gone. This mom had a very complex psychological situation in that she was abused as a child. She had lead poisoning, so she had some mental defects. She does not appear to be sad about the death of the children. And you know, you can have a mental

disorder, you can have psychiatric illness, and be homicidal all at the same time. One thing does not exclude the other. And I think that what happens with these mothers, and I saw this with Andrea Yates, they don't cry because when the children are gone, they actually feel relieved. They are overwhelmed by the duties of mothering. They usually did not want the children in the first place. And alongside the homicidal instinct is the wish and way to save their own skin. And they are not maternally bonded. Nancy, I have women in my practice like that. They're not killers, but they're not attached to their own children. And it is a

syndrome. So I would say not only is she relieved that they're gone, but she is not bonded with those children. That is why she's not crying. Okay, I've got so many questions colliding in my head right now, but let me just put out the first one. What do you mean not maternally bonded? Mothers who are not bonded with their children, usually it's for a few different reasons. Often they were raised by mothers who were not bonded with them, or they have postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis, or they have post-traumatic stress, which causes isolation, numbing, and withdrawal. But it's a very unique situation. I have three women in my practice right now, and they talk about their children like their children are animals.

One talks about the fact that her 12-year-old is fat, and she says, I just wish I could unzip the fat. She's like stuck in a fat suit. She's so ugly. She's fat. I can't even watch her eat because she just slobbers and she chews with her mouth open. I can't stand her. And this is how a mother, a very sophisticated mother who's worth $50 million, talks about her own 12-year-old daughter. That's what I mean by not being maternally bonded. That just hurts my heart.

That just hurts my heart to think of a mom talking about their child like that. I mean, of course you want them to learn table manners, but that's just downright mean. You know, another question I have to Dr. Michelle Dupree joining me, medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Now, this is anecdotal, Dr. Dupree, but often I see, when I see children that are beaten dead in a home, I blame the dad. When I see children smothered dead, I blame the mom. Now that's anecdotal based on the thousands of cases I have prosecuted, uh, investigated,

covered. I mean, uh, I think it was Bethany that was just talking about Andrea Yates. She smothered all of her children. I've seen a few moms beat children dead, like Deanna Lacey. She beat her children dead with a rock. But what do you see, Dr. Dupree, in the mode, the mode, the manner of death? Nancy, you're absolutely right. The vast majority of the time, a mother or female caregiver will typically smother the child or do something that is not as

violent as feeding the child. We oftentimes, I oftentimes have seen the male person who actually Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The compression's helping? His arms are purple now. Nothing. Has he got a pulse now no no pulse there is no pulse no pulse you've got no pulse now okay we still need to keep the compressions don't stop doing the compressions baby niles the dad desperately trying to save his son, but is it all a ruse? Then we find out that three babies have died in the same home. Pilkington's three-month-old son, Noah, found dead August 2015.

Four-year-old son, Gavin, April 2015. And Niles, dead July 2014. So Levi Page joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. All three dead in the home, all three dead of suffocation. Is that right? You are correct, Nancy. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 45 ABC 22 reporter Kelly May. Hopefully she can get the help that she needs.

Pilkington's mom told us her daughter now says she didn't kill the boys, that she was coerced to confess to the Logan County prosecutor Tuesday. We asked for Cummins' take on that. I mean, it runs through my mind, but I mean, if you didn't do it, why admit to it? It's just really made me realize that you can't, I mean, you can't really trust anyone, and I guess everyone's different than what they come off to be. Brittany Pilkington did not enter a plea today. The case goes to a grand jury next week.

Meantime, her husband Joe still hasn't been heard from since Brittany's arrest, so his family is pleading to hear from them. They need to in order to make funeral arrangements for little Noah. Oh, my stars. Can you imagine the pain of making a funeral arrangement for a tiny child? So Levi Page, let me understand. Were all three boys killed in the home and all three were suffocated? You are correct, Nancy. But how did the first two manage to go by being suffocated or even the first one without any criminal charges. Because the coroner ruled their death undetermined, unexplained.

It wasn't until four-year-old Gavin died in April 6th of 2015 that investigators said, we have two dead children, three-year-old Niall, who died in 2014, and then Gavin, a four-year-old, died in 2015. So they opened up a criminal investigation. CPS opened up a Child Prot cps opened up a child protective services investigation that's your favorite government agency nancy and then a family court judge after cps had removed a three-month-old child that's alive noah a family court judge

said the deaths are ruled undetermined we're going to return him back to his mother and then he died and this is after two dead bodies okay and now the mom does say britney pilkington does say that she rolled over on one in her sleep and smothered him that way now what were you about to say i'm sorry i cut you off leave i go ahead so a family court judge, his name is Judge Dan Bratka. He ordered three-month-old Noah to return to the home, and then a week later, he died a week after being returned to his mother. Ordered baby Noah back to the home, and now he's dead. You know, I don't get it. Steve Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door. Steve Lampley, what is it with defects? And Judge Dan Bratka, you have two dead babies and you leave a dead baby boys and you leave another baby boy in the home that's then killed.

Nancy, I agree. And from an investigation standpoint, when you have this first child that was three months old that was dead and you have a report that says undetermined, that's a red flag right off the – this is the first child, Nancy. There's a red flag. Why? I want to know why. Why did you say this death is undetermined and then to have a second one like maybe what a year later and then to have a judge give back a child that had been taken that just to me it just i'm speechless fancy that defies all logic take a listen to this we're in the redbud hill apartment complex here in bell fountain this latest child a three-month-old boy found unresponsive here in Belle Fountain. This latest child, a three-month-old boy, found unresponsive here in this apartment number 215. Mom calling 911. Now, we've talked to neighbors around the apartment complex here tonight, and they all had things to say, but most of them still in complete shock. Very much pissed off right now. I could never imagine doing something like that.

The news tonight reaching horrified neighbors. Mom, 23 year old Brittany Pilkington charged with murder. Her three month old boy, Noah, pronounced dead, taken from their apartment after an early morning 911 call. Noah is Brittany Pilkington's third child to be found unresponsive, not breathing, later dead in July 2014. Her three month old later dead. In July 2014, her three-month-old Niall, April of this year, her four-year-old Gavin. The Fountain Police started investigating but didn't find enough to pin the deaths on mom or her husband, 43-year-old Joe Pilkington. They just got this baby back like a few days ago. Yeah, and then this happens.

After Noah's death today. Police grilled Brittany and say she confessed to killing all three of her Children. I'm satisfied that today we have a reason behind it. We have the person that's responsible behind it behind bars where she belongs. Neighbors say it's too little too late. Something should have been done a long time ago when the first one died. You are so right. You're hearing not only ABC 22's Kelly May, but neighbor Courtney Weatherspoon, Leanne McKee, and Chief Brandon Stanley. Why were the babies left there?

But wait a minute. You haven't heard it all. She actually gives a reason, a motive for murder levi page what is mom britney pilkington's motive for murdering her three baby boys so she claims that joe pilkington showed his sons more attention than his four-year-old daughter, Haley. So she claims, the mom, Brittany Pilkington, that she murdered three little boys out of jealousy. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining us from Beverly Hills. Have you ever heard anything like it?

Well, it sounds like this could be an excuse, right? The father loved the little boys more than the other daughter, but also because she had some mental defects from the lead poisoning. It also could be that she was neglecting the children. You know, you don't just kill a child, but you've been treating them well all along up until you kill the child. Usually there's a long history of neglect and abuse leading up to this. So my thought was that maybe she was starving the children, not nurturing them, not feeding them. And the dad was stepping in to at least try to provide some nourishment and sustenance. And then she picked up on that theme as a weak excuse to try to explain to the

investigators why she killed her children. But obviously she killed them because she wanted them dead. There's no other reason. She didn't want them anymore. You know, it seems as if they're objects that she can just abandon when she does not want them anymore. Take a listen to our friends at NBC4, WCMH, Columbus reporter Marcus Thorpe. Do I know that she does have to pay for what she did? No one's going to take this lightly. You know, she took three little innocent lives. And her reaction in each child's death, prosecutors say the mother was flat and non-emotional. And one would have, again, THIS LATELY. SHE TOOK THREE LITTLE INNOCENT LIVES. AND HER REACTION IN EACH CHILD'S DEATH, PROSECUTORS SAY THE MOTHER WAS FLAT AND NON-EMOTIONAL. ONE WOULD HAVE AGAIN EXPECTED A PARENT TO HAVE SOME PREDICTABLE BEHAVIOR. GRIEF WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEGINNING, I WOULD THINK, DENIAL PERHAPS, BUT THIS PERSON DID NOT REALLY SHOW ANY OF THAT. BRITTANY TOLD INVESTIGATORS DURING INTERROGATIONS THAT SHE FELT HER BEST FRIEND WAS ACTUALLY HER 3-AND-A-HALF-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER,

SOMEBODY WHO IS NOW IN CUSTODY ON THE FATHER'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY, WE'RE TOLD. CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Brittany Pilkington entered not guilty pleas to all three charges of aggravated murder, but bond was continued at $1 million. At the same time Pilkington was in court this afternoon, funeral services were being held for Noah, the newborn son she has confessed to killing. Pilkington showed no emotion as the judge read through the three-count murder indictment. THE FAMILY WAS HOPING TO GET THEIR SONS TO THE CITY. THE FAMILY WAS HOPING TO GET THEIR SONS TO THE CITY. AFTER THE FUNERAL SERVICES WERE BEING HELD FOR NOAH, THE

NEWBORN SON SHE HAS CONFESSED TO KILLING. PILKINGTON SHOWED NO EMOTION AS THE JUDGE READ THROUGH THE THREE-COUNT MURDER INDICTMENT. PROSECUTORS SAY PILKINGTON HAS CONFESSED TO KILLING NOT ONLY NOAH BUT HER TWO OTHER SONS.

NO MOTHER IN THE WHOLE WORLD KILLS HER THREE KIDS. So to me, you're not in the right frame of mind. Jeff Skaggs said Joe Pilkington, Brittany's husband, who previously was her mother's boyfriend, attended today's funeral. Prosecutors have described Joe Pilkington as controlling and say he kept Brittany isolated from her family. They say Brittany used the boys' blankets to suffocate them because she wanted her husband to pay more attention to their daughter. Oh, dear lord in heaven three babies dead just a few months old each of them one being four. To Levi Page crimeonline.com

investigative reporter what was the sentence on the mom Brittany Pilkington? She got 37 years in prison. Whoa 37 years that's only about 13 years for each dead child. You know, to Daryl Cohen, I noticed this, and again, this is anecdotal, that when there was a baby homicide victim in court, very often the perp would get a lighter sentence, like the baby's life meant less than an adult life. In my mind, it matters even more because the baby absolutely cannot defend itself in any way. I find that happening so often. It will be a voluntary manslaughter or an involuntary manslaughter when it's an infant murder victim, Daryl. Nancy, it makes no sense other than the fact that sometimes there's a plea to a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter because the prosecutors, the DAs, the state attorneys, whoever it may be, may feel they don't have enough evidence to convict and they're not as sure of the case as they otherwise would be. Because when you're

talking suffocation, you can turn and say, well, the baby was in the crib. The baby suffocated on his or her own. So there are a lot of reasons. Frankly, we need to speak up for those poor, innocent victims. But there's always a reason why sometimes they don't get, the defendant doesn't get the type of criminal record that they need, such as the death penalty. What about what Bethany Marshall keeps talking about, that the mom as a child had some sort of lead poisoning ailment, and not only that, that she had also other emotional issues. What are you talking about specifically, Dr. Bethany Marshall? Well, according to some of the reports,

she was raised in a household where she was repeatedly sexually abused. And also her current husband, Joe Pinkerton, was her mother's boyfriend. And he had sex with her when she was underage. And also that there was lead poisoning in the household. So it tells me that I'm not sure what the mental defect is, other than the defense and the prosecution both kept talking about the fact that she had problems with cognition, with the way she thought, with the way she processed. So a little like Andrea Yates, it seems like it's a perfect storm of events. Now, remember with Andrea Yates, Andrea was schizophrenic and her husband, Rusty Yates, had her living in a school bus as a part of some weird, strange religious group. And I think in this case with Joe Pinkerton, who is so controlling, he has a wife who has some extreme deficits, but he keeps having children with her.

So I'm not saying that it's Rusty or Joe's fault, but I think that one contributing factor is failing to estimate the capacities of the mother. In both cases, mothers extremely overwhelmed and not really having wanted the children in the first place played a major role in the infanticide. We know she suffered lead poisoning as a child. What effect would that have had on her, Dr. Bethany? I would say that probably what happened is that she had what we called cognitive slowing, meaning that she had poor judgment, poor reasoning, cognitive deficits. Cognition is just a fancy word for a thought process. And when you have this kind of poisoning early in life, it causes what are called pervasive learning disorders. A pervasive learning disorder means that the brain

is affected on every level. So it could produce emotional instability. It could produce poor cause and effect thinking. It could affect the prefrontal cortex, meaning that the person cannot anticipate dangerous situations. They cannot wrap meanings around events. So it hurts the person's ability to process on all level and fairly curtails their ability to parent. I still don't believe that that would rise to insanity. Under the law, under the old McNaughton rule brought over to the U.S. from Great Britain, it is our common law. If you know right from wrong at the time of the incident, then you are not insane. She certainly knew enough to lie and cover up her crimes. What about the fact that we have been told her IQ is 94? What

does that mean, Dr. Bethany? Well, I think that low IQ has nothing to do with whether or not she killed the children. I'm actually surprised that she was able to get away with it as long as she did. Just because you have a low IQ or you're schizophrenic does not mean that you're not also homicidal. Both Andrea and Brittany waited till the husbands were out of the home to kill the children. When you wait till your husband goes to work, when you wait so that there's not another adult in the house that can serve a supervisorial function, you know you're doing something wrong. You know it. Now, the low IQ could have actually created a situation where she didn't anticipate

that she would get into trouble for this, but certainly it does not absolve her of being homicidal. Well, she certainly outsmarted defects, you know, and police and made time to murder three children. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what can you tell me about the father of the children, Joseph Pilkington? So he was Brittany's stepdad. He was in a relationship with her mother. And then after he broke up with her, he actually started dating. That's a bad word for it because she was underage.

Brittany, and he got her pregnant when she was 17 years old. So after the death of these children, Nancy, he was arrested and charged with sex battery of a minor. He reached a plea deal with prosecutors. He pled guilty to a misdemeanor of sexual imposition of a minor, and he was sentenced to 21 days in jail and got a $250 fine. 21 days in jail and a $250 fine. Not only was the girl at best 17, I'm talking about Brittany Pilkington,

when he was having sex with her, that would be statutory rape if she was underage in the jurisdiction. But not only that, he continued on until she had all of these children by him. I'm confused. He was arrested for sex battery with a minor, which is a felony, but he only got 21 days in jail. Yes, that's after he pled it down to sexual imposition of a minor, which is a misdemeanor in the state of Ohio. To you, Daryl Cohen, you're the defense attorney. Why did they do that? Because she married him? Did they somehow think that put a different facade on what really is a felony? In some warped way, did the prosecutor think that made it all okay? I think the prosecutor may have felt that it didn't make it okay, but it made it very difficult to prosecute a case.

Again, you and I both know you have to get into the minds of everybody, including the possible jury. And the prosecutor may have tried to get into her mind saying, well, this is a terrible witness, and we're not sure what she's going to say, regardless of what the evidence will be. So let's just take a plea and make it okay. And she's going to go to prison for the rest of her life, or at least 37 years. And we'll figure that out from there. Sometimes it seems like no matter how much we fight it, that in some cases there is no justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.