Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tiny Bone Fragment on Hacksaw: Did Hubby Chop up Wife Over Sex or Money?

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

New court documents released this week reveal that a bone fragment was found when forensic investigators took apart a hacksaw found in a dumpster near Brian Walshe's mother's home. Police also found Ana's COVID-19 vaccination card, her Volkswagen keys, clothing and  jewelry.  Surveillance footage also reveals that Brian Walshe bought cleaning supplies around the time of his wife's disappearance. The images show Walshe wearing a face mask and pushing a shopping cart in a Home Depot. He purchased several things, including mops, brushes,  tarps,  Scotch Heavy duty tape, a Tyvek suit coverall, two splash-resistant goggles, and more.  When the Walshe home was searched, many of those items were found.  Walshe was also spotted at a Lowe's. That is where he allegedly bought $450 worth of tools, including a hacksaw that contained the bone fragment.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Jessica Garth - Chief, Special Victims & Family Violence Unit, State's Attorney's Office, Prince George's County, MD   Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA);  New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills); Twitter: @DrBethanyLive  Lisa Dadio- Former Deputy Chief of Police, Atlanta Police Department  Dr. Michelle DuPre- Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department; Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide;" Forensic Consultant,  Rachel Schilke- Breaking News Reporter for The Washington Examiner; Twitter: @rachel_schilke  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom goes missing, never seen again. Coincidentally, on New Year's Day, in the last hours, in the search for Anna Walsh, a bone fragment emerges. Not just a bone fragment, but the location of the bone fragment on a hacksaw. As we learn about the surreptitious hiring of a private investigator as rumors swirl that Anna Walsh was having a sex affair. So what? She gets the death penalty?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. It's not just a bone fragment. A bone fragment, believe it or not, can be found under innocent circumstances. But a bone fragment on a hacksaw is a whole nother thing. Take a listen to our friends at NBC 10. He was also captured visiting dumpsters at apartment complexes. By the time detectives searched them, most of them had been emptied and the contents incinerated. But in Swampscott, investigators found a number of items belonging to Anna, as well as some of the items Mr. Walsh had purchased. The hacksaw that had

red-brown staining in several areas, when it was disassembled, a small fragment of bone was recovered. The Tyvek suit had a red-brown stain on the exterior. The stain was tested, and Anna Walsh's DNA was determined to be a contributor. Brian Walsh's defense attorney claims evidence testing so far has been inconclusive. Well, you can't rule him out. The conclusion was you can't rule him in. testing so far has been inconclusive. Okay, if that bone fragment cannot be matched up to Anna Walsh, if in fact the testing is inconclusive, then that means absolutely nothing in a court of law. You've got to get that DNA match up. If it's possible with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

But first, I want to go out to forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and lucky for us, detective, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She became a household name during the Alex Murdoch prosecution. Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us. Dr. Dupree, thank you for being with us.

Before we go to the breaking news reporter for the Washington Examiner, Rachel Schilke. Dr. Dupree, there's a lot of evidence found all over crime scenes and beyond. I remember sifting through evidence on a playground when I was prosecuting my first mass murder. And I found, believe it or not, on the playground specifically around the merry-go-round, a lot of ballistics evidence. And I was thrilled that I had caught something, found something that the cops had missed. Well, I didn't. I found bullets and cartridges, but they didn't match up to the known murder weapon. They were in no way connected to my case. So you find a bone fragment in a dumpster,

that means nothing to me unless you can match it up to my case. Right or wrong? That's right, Nancy. I mean, you have to have something that tracks that piece of evidence back to the case that you're investigating. And if you don't have it, then you really don't have that as part of your case. So hopefully there will be something that will tie that bone fragment to the case, whether it's DNA, whether it's, you know, something like that, that would be great. I'm challenging everybody on the panel. An innocent way of finding a bone fragment.

Okay, Dr. Dupree, another case I was investigating, another homicide was in a bar and teeth were found. Well, I know this sounds crazy, but I was thrilled because I thought it was going to be the teeth of my murder victim. Well, it wasn't. Obviously, somebody else had been in a bar brawl and got a tooth knocked out. So an innocent, in other words, not part of a murder case, piece of evidence that you would think is tied to your case, and it's not. What is any innocent explanation, a non-nefarious explanation for a bone fragment being found in a dumpster? That's to you, Dr. Dupree.

Nancy, there could be many, many, many reasons. I mean, it could be an animal bone. It could be a bone from somebody at a butcher shop. It could be where someone accidentally cut their finger and part of the bone as well. There can be so many different explanations. And if it's in a dumpster, can you imagine the contamination? How do you narrow all of that down to just your victim and your crime? Dr. Michelle Dupree, isn't it true that even when DNA is contaminated, you can still, in some cases, isolate the contaminant from the DNA and still get DNA. I mean, you've got bodies that have been,

that are decomposing in water, underwater, in mud. In rape cases, you've got multiple sperm donors in gang rapes. I mean, none of these are pretty pictures, but my point is DNA is contaminated all the time. But in many cases, it can be isolated, the contaminant and the relevant dna yes no absolutely nancy and all we have to do is show that part of that dna is from the person that we need it to be from in this case our victim that said let's not put the cart before the horse let me go to breaking news investigative reporter with the washington examiner rachel shilke it's a real pleasure to have you on. Thank you for being with us today. Without any further ado, have you seen, of course you have,

the picture of the dumpster? Yes, I have. Okay, here's the phenomena, and I can't wait to hear everybody else in the panel weigh in. I'm sure Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, where they have, you know, so many problems, where to shop today. You know how, Rachel Schilke, a certain fact of a case can just put your stomach in a knot. And it may not be the evidence that you would guess, for instance, in my first carjack murder case, I saw this young man's body. Oh, my goodness, Rachel. He was, I think my victim was 17. He lived at home with his parents. He's an honor student.

He came outside to get something out of the car. And the perp just comes along, sees the car, wants the car and shoots my teen boy dead. My victim in that case, I mean. And okay, there was the autopsy. There was the crime scene. There was the blood. There was the family just in complete and utter pain.

But this is what got me, Rachel Schilke. The next door neighbor heard a shot, ran outside, saw the neighbor boy. I mean, he's 17. He's practically a man, but they all thought he was the boy next door. Ran in, got a pillow off their bed, ran back out and put his head on a pillow. He was dead or dying at that moment. He was dead. But that act of trying to comfort

the dead teen boy, I remember, I'm still remembering it, the pathos of that moment, that's what got me. I mean, I can look at dead bodies all day and all night long no problem but to Anna Walsh this dumpster police found a slew

of evidence regarding Anna Walsh's body and the photo I'm looking at I found in at the New York Post but I'm sure it's the crime scene photo I'm looking at, I found at the New York Post. But I'm sure it's the crime scene photo. I mean, this woman, Rachel Schilke, so glamorous, so beautiful. This great mom to three little boys ages two, four, and six. And this is her parting photo? This crammed, full, nasty dumpster inside a chain link fence it's just upsetting Rachel it really is and I think it also is probably just upsetting for her family and friends who maybe thought that she was actually going to come home and the fact that they had this beautiful light in their lives

that represented so much to them and then for them to find out that not only do they not know where her body is but the only testament to this case at this moment where her almost quote-unquote I guess last resting place is this dumpster just doesn't seem to do her justice to anybody guys if you don't recognize Rachel Schilke's voice let me tell you she is a lead breaking news investigative reporter for the Washington Examiner. Rachel, tell me about the bone fragment found on a hacksaw, as I understand it, in this dumpster. I mean, it's kind of incredible the fact that you know video evidence showed him uh brian walsh going to the store buying all these supplies and to then see these supplies transferred into a dumpster to have possibly blood and a possible bone fragment belonging to his wife on this hacksaw just to see it i think in front of you i'm not an investigator but to have an investigator see that

and to recognize okay yes now this is is probably going to be a murder investigation, it must be incredibly terrible to be a part of that and to have to see that. And there's so many layers to this case, and I think the fact that you can transfer the video evidence directly to the hacksaw, most likely there's other parts of this case that i'm sure are going to come out but the fact that there is this bone fragment that you know i think most people would want to speculate belongs to anna walsh can you say that for sure no not yet but like the doctor was saying if this is something that ends up being a dna match to her i think it could make this case go amazingly in the prosecutor's favor and drastically downhill for Brian Walsh.

You know, you said something really interesting, Rachel Schuelke. Don't sell yourself short because I'm very familiar with your work. You said, and I'm not an investigator. Well, you are an investigative reporter. And I would venture to guess you're a better investigator than a lot of investigators I've seen who would drive by this and go, what, what, it's a dumpster. And it would mean nothing to them, but it means something to you. Just like a piece of evidence out of place, like a bone fragment. Sure, you heard Dr. Michelle Dupree. I knew to go to her because she can tell you any circumstances where a bone fragment is found somewhere innocently. Pause for a big thank you to our partner making today's program possible. It's Fox Nation and its brand new series, Scampreneur.

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investigators, victims, and whistleblowers, Scampreneur reveals how these con artists were captured and punished for their crimes. Don't miss this incredible series, Scampreneur, streaming now on Fox Nation. Thanks, Fox Nation, for being our partner. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me go to Jessica Garth, Chief of the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George's County. Jessica, thank you for being with us. A piece of evidence out of place. Let's talk about Lacey Peterson one moment.

And I use Lacey Peterson so often because there's so much evidence in it that there's it can fit practically any comparison I want to make. Do you remember Jessica Garth when Lacey Peterson's hair her beautiful long hair was found not just on Scott Peterson's secret boat that he told nobody he was buying that he happened to go fishing in on the day his wife's body was she goes missing and is dumped at the body of water where he went fishing the day she's killed her hair is found like not just stuck to it like you know, cat hair on your shirt. But twined up in, I think it was pliers, wasn't it, Jackie? Of Scott Peterson's. It's not just out, it's not on her brush. It's not on her clothing.

It's not on their bedspread or in her car. It's on his pliers at his work, at his office where he keeps the boat. It's out of place. Or here's another good one, Jessica Garth. Kelly Anthony, her mother, top mom Casey Anthony, murdered her. And her, Kelly's hair was found in top mom's car trunk. Now, why would a child's hair be in the car trunk? And you can come up with a lot of scenarios, but this is evidence that anywhere else wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but in these locations are significant, like this piece of bone on a hacksaw. Absolutely.

And you're talking about evidence out of place. And really what it is, is it's a puzzle. Any case like this where you don't have a body and you're having to rely on circumstantial evidence, every little piece of evidence helps. So when you have a hacksaw right after your prime suspect has purchased the hacksaw, you know, on film, hacksaw that has, you know, the DNA of your victim on it, and then you find a bone fragment, that certainly is strong circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that this hacksaw that has the DNA of your victim on it. And then you find a bone fragment that certainly is strong circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that this hacksaw was used for nefarious purposes to dismember your victim. And that's why you've been unable to recover her body. You said that so beautifully, Jessica Garth.

Okay, everybody, you better sit down. In fact, you may need to lay down for this. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com, star of a Netflix hit, Bling Empire. Dr. Bethany, let me work up to this. Everybody, P.S., jump in when you have an idea. Dr. Bethany, I will never forget, before David and I got married.

I was, of course, in New York and he was in Atlanta. Of course, he travels all over the world doing his business. I would know more about it, but the emails are so boring. As you know, my eyes bled when I watched them. So I'm not sure exactly what he does, but it's really boring. That said, there was a horrible snowstorm in Atlanta. So the cell phones have been out and I'm calling, calling. Are you OK?

I said, hey, I got your phone. Where are you? He goes, I just got back from buying a chainsaw. I'm like, for who? Who's going to use a chainsaw and he went me I'm going to clear off some trees that fell in the front yard I'm like no no cash cow is not crank cranking up a chainsaw and cutting off your fingers or your hand or, you save those fingers for punching that calculator, and emails, and all the things you do.

Forget about the trees. They don't matter. So I still remember him going, finding out he went and bought a chainsaw. Just, you know, because that's not his thing. Yes, he can do home repairs and all that but leads me to brian walsh out of the blue goes and buys a hacksaw now the other day david went and did get a hacksaw why because helping my son and daughter on a scout project i mean that's not

the kind of thing he would do on a daily basis. He's not a contractor. He doesn't bill things typically. So out of the blue, Brian Walsh, who is an art collector slash dealer slash fraudulent art collector. Remember all those Andy Warhol painting fraud he did. But Bethany, if I hear I'm going to go buy a hacksaw, I a hacksaw like why why do you need a hacksaw help me help me figure out what I'm trying to say here Dr. Bethany. Okay so not only the hacksaw but when you look at those photos of him in the in the hardware store he has a mop he has other cleaning supplies

he has a bucket and he looks like he owns a janitor company, a janitorial cleaning supply company. He has so much product in that cart. And Nancy, he looks so nonchalant as if he doesn't know that there are cameras all over the place but circle back to something you said about evidence like Lacey Peterson's hair being entwined in pliers on Scott's boat about Kaylee Anthony's hair being in the trunk of the mother's car and how this is so out of place but from a psychoanalytic perspective I don't think it is out of place because what ties all of these circumstances together is that the evidence is very close to where the perp lives.

We know that most children who are murdered are discovered less than a third of a mile away from the parent's home. We know that criminals often camp out at their mother's homes. And we know that this dumpster where Anna Walsh's bone fragment was found on the hacksaw was very near Brian Walsh's mother's home. So if we look at the story behind the story behind the story, all of these perpetrators are really staying within close proximity of where they live, where they work. And I would think from a domestic violence perspective that this is where the homicidal murderous thoughts and feelings fomented. I want to get rid of my daughter Kaylee because I want to go on a date. I'm going to slap duct tape on her mouth and I'm

going to shove her in the trunk of my car. I'm pissed because I think my wife's having an affair. She has this huge life insurance policy. I want it all for myself. I'm sitting at my mother's kitchen table, foaming at the mouth, complaining about my wife, getting her to hire a PI. And you know what? It's so close to home that once I murder my wife, I her to hire a PI. And you know what? It's so close to home that once I murder my wife, I'm just going to put her in the dumpster next to my mother's house. So I think from a psychological perspective, the proximity of the evidence to where these perps live, work, and fantasize about homicide is extremely important.

I'm just making notes on what you're saying, Dr. Bethany. I love giving you a hard time about working with your clients on Rodeo Drive and where are they going to shop today and blah, blah, blah. But you know what, Dr. Bethany, you bring up so many incredible points. And just so everybody knows, isn't this true, Jessica Garth? We're still talking about the bone fragment and what it means and what we can extrapolate evidentially from that. And that is exactly how you build a case. If you want to win anyway, you look at each piece of evidence and you think and think and think. What can I prove with this one piece of evidence? Isn't that true, Jessica?

Absolutely true. And you also look at the evidence and you think, you know, what else could this be? So, you know, when you're asking what are some, you know, non-nefarious reasons why a bone fragment might be found on a hacksaw, certainly as a prosecutor, you're considering those explanations that you can, you know, knock down those attacks as you're trying to prove your case. You know, Rachel Schilke joining us, investigative news reporter for the Washington Examiner. When we first spoke to her today, she was talking about the layers and the layers and the layers of this case. You are so right, Rachel, because think about it. Whenever a defendant wouldn't show up to court I go why are you so

worried just go over to his mother's house and look under the bed go look in her closet that's where he is he's at mommy's because mommy will always take care of you and protect you even against LA law enforcement think about this this, Rachel Schilke. He goes to his mother's, I mean, it's not hers personally, but that's the dumpster she uses, her apartment building, her condo building uses. He goes to mommy's house to get rid of the evidence.

That's a whole psychological bundle for me to figure out right there. That he's so connected to the mom he gets the mom to hire the PI he tells the mom oh she's sleeping around she's such a big whore let's hire a private investigator and then he goes there I guess for support for egging on isn't this dumpster near mom's place yeah it's very I remember when I was first reporting on this case and getting all the evidence together. That was something that really stuck out to me because I think that it does on one hand, like you pointed out, point out a psychological component to this case. But I think

it also, it was very interesting to me because I feel as though that if he did end up committing this murder, he didn't exactly hide it very well. He was caught on camera buying supplies. Those supplies were found in a dumpster. Oh, yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, Rachel. He's caught on camera buying supplies. And I want to circle back in a sec to Lisa Daddio, former chief of police, about, don't they know there's surveillance video? Hello. In Home Depot and Lowe's and Target and Walmart.

But, Rachel, the items found in the dumpster, what exactly are those items, if you could refresh our recollection? The bloody knife was found in their home. There was a hacksaw, a hatchet, rugs that investigators believe belonged to the Walsh's home, and then just various excess of cleaning supplies. I remember just off of the top of my head looking at the receipt, it was buckets, it was mops, it was a hazmat suit, it was rags. So things that you would allegedly use to cover up a crime. And so that's kind of why I was pointing to the fact that if he ended up committing didn't exactly, if he ended up committing this crime, he didn't exactly hide it very well. And he wouldn't be the first.

Does the name Fotis Dulos ring a bell? Because it sure does to me. His wife, Jennifer's body still missing. She's five children to raise without a mother because he killed her. And who was in on it? Goading him along. Girlfriend, Mistress Michelle Traconis.

Don't leave her out of this. She's the Beelzebub to his Satan. Guys, take a listen to our friends at WVIT regarding Jennifer Dulos. The arrest warrant sheds a lot of light on how authorities ultimately moved to charge him with kidnapping and felony murder today.

Physical evidence recovered along Albany Avenue was a big factor in the police investigation. Over the summer, you'll remember police said a man who appeared to be Fotis Dulos along with the woman who appeared to be Michelle Traconis, his girlfriend, recorded disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue the night that Jennifer disappeared. Well, the arrest warrant lays out some of what was recovered from those garbage bags including a bloody paper towel, a sponge, clothes, undergarments, duct tape, and more that all contain Jennifer Dulos's DNA. Well, can I just say a very technical legal term, idiot. And he's not the only one. What about Bo Rothwell? I'll never forget that name. Take a listen to KMOV.

The husband, Bo, was seen on the 11th, the day before Jennifer disappeared. He was seen on video buying cleaning products, including bleach, carpet cleaner, and gloves. So last night we were there as police obtained that search warrant and went into the couple's home on Northwinds Drive. They were in there for hours, and they're now telling us the detectives located wet carpet soaked with bleach and large areas of blood on the carpeting. I'm telling you, if David Lynch ever goes to Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Target, and buys a bunch of cleaning supplies, go ahead. Call me right then because he's up to something that has never happened in life

you know lisa daddio former police chief former deputy chief of police lisa thank you for being with us these people are not idiots photos delos uh built multi-million dollar luxury homes brian walsh was an art dealer and collector that moved in rarefied circles. Don't they see that video camera up there? Do they think they're immune? Haven't you seen this a million times? So yeah, we have. And I think what happens is, you know, dumpsters behind an apartment building, for example, Brian's probably not thinking that that area is under video surveillance. Yes, maybe other places, you know, around the building are, or ring cameras, you know, from his home going to other places. We know because that came up in the Dulos case as well.

But yet, I don't think necessarily what he's doing regarding the dumpsters. He's thinking that there's any video footage back there. Now, regarding the store purchases, come on, everybody knows everything you do there is under video surveillance from the minute you pull into the parking lot to you walk in the store, as you move throughout the store at the cash registers. You know, is he trying to kind of hide his appearance by wearing a mask uh in january um to you know that you only see the top part of his hat you know his head is he wearing a mask any other time or is it only when he's going to these stores i mean it all becomes circumstantial but it

helps the investigators and there's a method to it for cops lisa daddio. I mean, here's a good example. Think about Brian Koberger. Sorry to bring up that specter. But when cops were looking for the vehicle the perp would have used, they looked on that block, then they moved out, then they moved out, then they moved out until they spot the Elantra. And we're going to see more about that Elantra on video. Here's a good example. I prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife by arson and of course he clubbed her first. But I went to the site, of course, to the scene and was looking around like, where are all of his clothes? Where are his suits? This guy has a million dollar business. Where are his suits? So I turned to my investigator and said, let's get busy. Let's go to million dollar business. Where are his suits? So I turned to my investigator and said, let's get busy. Let's go to every dry cleaner. Let's start on this block and then go

out and then go out. And less than two miles away, the day before he sets the house on fire, we found like 20 plus suits and shirts at a dry cleaner. I mean, really? So that's how you find the location. You don't know if it's Lowe's or Home Depot, unless you can get the credit card information. But you just move out and move out. And then you hit a treasure trove. Bam. Right, Lisa Daddio? Absolutely, Nancy.

You know something that hasn't come up yet that we can't obviously discount? It's his cell phone. Oh, yeah. Brian's cell phone and where it was hitting off of towers and the forensic digital information that you can get from that cell phone, you know, the day of, the days after, that are going to help you. The movements like, again, that they created, here's a map of his movements on Brian Koberger. And it's amazing and they did the same thing with photos duos through ring doorbell surveillance video doorbell security cams at businesses even bus bus video here is the salacious tidbit I've kind of been putting it off but let's just get it out there. Take a listen to our cut. 48, our friends at WBZ. In December of 2022, it had become evident that Mr. Walsh was suspecting his wife of having an affair.

His mother did hire a private investigator shortly before New Year's that year. She told Mr. Walsh that she was doing that. He said she was crazy, honest, good girl, she told Mr. Walsh that she was doing that. He said she was crazy. Anna's a good girl, but go ahead. You'll be proved wrong. Prosecutors then went through the timeline from when Anna Walsh was last seen to when they say Brian first reported her missing. So, of course, he claims she's crazy. You know, Rachel Schilke, joining us from the Washington Examiner.

I wanted to take a listen to our cut at 54, our friends at Boston 25 as well. This grisly case has made headlines all across the country. At this arraignment, Prosecutor Greg Conner's statement of the case revealed Anna Walsh, upset that Brian was likely facing federal prison time in another case, was prepared to leave him and move to Washington, D.C. with their three young children. Brian was the sole beneficiary of more than $2 million worth of life insurance policies. And just before Ana disappeared, Conner said Brian suspected Ana of cheating on him.

CONNER, He was routinely visiting the Instagram page of one of her male friends. And on December 26th, his mother, with his input and direction, obtained and hired a private investigator to surveil Anna Walsh in Washington, D.C. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Rachel Schilke, Washington Examiner. What can you tell us about the alleged affair? The alleged affair is really interesting because when it first came out that this was circulating in the media, you know, there was an alleged affair. There wasn't much evidence to go off of, you know, court search warrants had been sealed. All this evidence had been sealed. like not transactions, the interviews and the information. It seems to me that what the police found is that this man confirmed that they were in a dating relationship and had been for several months and it was growing more serious.

And at one point they had traveled to Dublin, Ireland to spend Thanksgiving together and they spent Christmas Eve together and they were planning a belated new year celebration together on january 4th and that is when brian walsh started calling her work in washington dc saying my wife hasn't been seen have you heard from her and investigators are believing that this was a cover-up to stem from the fact that he had murdered her on new year's day dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, jumping off what Rachel Schilke has just described, and you mentioned it earlier. Can't you just imagine Brian Walsh sitting at mommy's kitchen table and wherever it was, Swain's got, I think it was, you know, just gnashing his teeth and switching his tail. My wife's having an affair. I'm sure you never thought, wow, I wonder it was, you know, just gnashing his teeth and switching his tail. My wife's having an affair.

I'm sure he never thought, wow, I wonder why she's not attracted to me anymore. Maybe because I committed fraud and I'm going to jail for that, for art fraud. But that said, obsessed with the possibility his wife is having an affair and he's unloading it all to mommy and going just obsessively on his cell phone or his tablet looking at who he thinks is the boyfriend's insta and all of his social trying to what see if anna his wife was in a picture or thinking about the guy looking at the guy oh he's not handsome he's not buff he's got this crappy job why is she interested in him just whatever is going on in his mind but just obsessing on it to the point he convinces his mother to get in league with him that mother may be looking at accessory charges think about about that, mommy. Well, usually when an individual finds out

that their spouse or partner is having an affair, their first instinct is to leave the other person, not to stalk the other person. I would be devastated just thinking about it. It makes me sick to my stomach. Yeah. Well, I mean, it makes all of us sick to our stomachs. In fact, most people who find out a partner is having an affair,

when they come to my office, they are so devastated. They are almost psychotic. They are crying. They can't sleep. They have intrusive thoughts. It's not the three minutes of sex, for Pete's sake. It's the love, the love that you would leave your wife and your children and the home and the family and the memories. For what? A piece of tail? Seriously? We have to be clear that that's not what we're talking about here. No, I think that Anna Walsh, if this is true, about the affair was emotionally involved with this guy.

I think she had had it with Brian Walsh and his double dealing and his lies. He had threatened to kill her in the past. She had filed a police report and then later dropped the charges. Now he's cheating with the art. I mean, really, who's going to be able to pull off an art fraud with an Andy Warhol? You think that's not going to be checked out for Pete's sake? She had had it with him. I think that there's a very good chance she was deeply in love with this guy. And actually, Nancy, women who are in domestic violence situations, on average, it takes them nine attempts to leave the relationship before they are finally successful. And one of the reasons is that when they try to leave, the partner, in this case, Brian Walsh, knows that the control is slipping.

And they try to put their claws, their hooks, their tentacles deeper and deeper and deeper into the victim. So when he's going online, looking at Instagram, kind of cyber stalking her, it's not because he's so sad or he's worried about her welfare. It's that he feels betrayed and he knows that he no longer has power and dominance over her. So all of this stalking, all of this talking to his mom about it is an attempt to reestablish the way the relationship once was. Hey, Dr. Bethany, hold on. Before I lose the thought.

Have you noticed every time and jump in anybody on the panel. Help me out here. Rachel Schilke, Dr. Bethany, Lisa, Dr. Dupree, Jessica Garth. Have you noticed that every picture of Brian Waltz,

he looks like he's just rolled out of bed. He always looks unkept. He's not really helping take care of the boys. They've got three boys. He's not working and bringing in money. And she's having to support everybody and travel to D.C. from her home every on and off all week to support them. And to top it off, he's a con.

He did an art fraud for thousands of dollars. I mean, it's not like he's at home cooking a homemade beef stew or a chicken pot pie for when she gets home from work. He's doing nothing. At what point does the light switch flick? And you go, you know what? Even if you're not going to help me, don't hurt me. And you're hurting me. I'm getting out of this. You know, Nancy, this is Jessica. This case just, it screams to me that, you know, that this was a man who had lost control over his life. And I think that what he did to his wife ultimately is him trying to reassert, you know, power and control in an ultimate way.

I mean, ultimately he has, you know, he's taken her life and no one else can ever have her. And while he himself has, you know, he's facing criminal charges now on multiple different fronts. In that way, he will always have control over his wife. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, she is totally stealing your thunder. You must be really embarrassed right now. Well, let me add to this to this remember he tried to con his own father to con his own father out of aspects of the father's estate so would that tell everybody about that that's a really good point you know when you don't know a horse look at his track

record and there he is doing the same thing again and tell remind refresh our recollection on that i remember that now. This only came to light because one of the father's friends, I believe, if I recall correctly, was very aware that the father wanted nothing to do with his son, Brian Walsh. He saw his son as a loser, a con artist, felonious. And so he cut Brian completely out of his will but what happened is that the father became increasingly ill towards the end of his life Brian Walsh would go to the father's house and I believe he attempted to change the father's will while the father was sort of in hospice or at

the end of his life and he did it in a very strange and transparent way where he forged a signature or something like that. So I think that what tells me about Brian Walsh is that everybody was a mark. Everybody was somebody from whom he could con or get money or steal from, including his own wife. His wife was a mark too. I mean, in some ways we could say that her going to work in another state was because she was trying to get away from him, or he was kind of in his own mind pimping her out, like you say that he's always looking crumpled and like he just rolled out of bed.

I mean, Brian Walsh felt that he didn't have to work, that everybody else would work for him. And remember, sociopaths, one of the defining features is they have the parasitic lifestyle. They are parasitic with the people around them. So he was a parasite with his father. He was a parasite with his wife, always trying to extract things from them, working them harder and harder while he's just sitting at his mother's dinner table, you know, chatting her up about how he feels so cheated and betrayed by the wife. You know what? If he felt so cheated and betrayed, he could have gone out.

I know he was under, you know, house arrest at this point, but he could have had a legitimate job and a career and supported his family. But that's not the way Brian Walsh rolled. You know, you just really struck a chord in me, Dr. Bethany. You've met David, my husband. This is the kind of guy you need to look for. You need to look for a guy that wants to do something for you. Dr. Bethany, and I don't mean big things or expensive things,

something that matters to you. You know, Dr. Bethany, to get the children to school on time and all the animals fed and my grandmother, my mother taken care of, I get up every morning at least by 530. Very often, David will beat me up, beat me being awake, and I'll go in the kitchen and find him in there. And he has already like made the coffee or emptied the dishwasher done some little thing that requires time and effort to help I always catch him doing the laundry yeah laundry yeah he does laundry and so I I don't feel that's another thing I don't do and it's just or have to do my point is here is Walt's just really a parasite just sucking her dry oh and speaking of when you don't know a horse

look at his track record you gotta hear our cut 61 talking about a scam a fraud he's first there's the Warhol paintings fraud the fraud on dad now listen Cut 60. Well, this is Bianca Beltran at NBC10. Anna Walsh was last seen on New Year's Day by a family friend who left their house at 1.30 in the morning. About three and a half hours later, more research on the iPad about disposing of a body. Prosecutors noted Brian Walsh would benefit financially from his wife's death. In total, her life insurance is over $2.7 million, where the defendant was a sole beneficiary. The defendant was a sole beneficiary. He was in line to get nearly $3 million if he could get rid of Anna. We wait as justice unfolds.

Goodbye, friend.