Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TONIGHT REVEAL: EPSTEIN HAND-DELIVERS VICTIMS LIKE PIZZAS

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Epstein Conspiracy, or Epstein Conspiracy Theory? Nancy has a conversation with true crime author on why the Epstein Story is NOT a "Conspiracy Theory" and not only does he hand pick and deliver his victims inside the United States, but also his criminal network spreads globally. " Barry Levine, author of "The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell," has dedicated years speaking on the unanswered questions about Jeffrey Epstein, his island, controversy surrounding releasing Epstein files, and more. Who is covering for Jeffrey Epstein and why, even though he is dead. Girls as young as 12, witnesses claim seeing them go to Epstein's mansion, flown around the world for Epstein's pleasure, but who else. Survivors and their families criticize the Department of Justice’s “chaotic approach” to handling the case, triggering feelings again of having no control of the situation. Victims, along with the public, were especially thrown by Ghislaine Maxwell’s sudden prison transfer, saying hearing about it for the first time in the news was another disappointment. A New York judge has denied the Department of Justice’ request to unseal grand jury transcripts used to indict Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell on sex trafficking of minors. Questions continue to arise as to why Epstein and Maxwell having sex with minors are the only one's charged and the circumstances surrounding Epstein’s death. Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire financier and convicted sex offender charged with the sex trafficking of minors, wasn't just preying on underprivileged kids in the United States, his empire was much bigger. Demands of releasing flight logs and curiosity from the public still wanting to know how and where Epstein obtained all his wealth.  Joining Nancy Grace today, Barry Levine - Author of “The Spider: Inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell,” and Veteran Investigative and Editor in Print and Television. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. At this hour, as the country is seemingly torn in half over the release of the so-called Epstein files and the Epstein client list, we have proof that Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking ring spans much further than just the U.S. I'm talking about proof that girls as young as 12 years old were flown from various countries to Epstein's island where they were handed over like a pizza delivery to Jeffrey Epstein and his wealthy clients. It's like a dirt sandwich in my mouth. Why has this not been uncovered?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Climb Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Joining us tonight is a very special guest, Barry Levine. Barry is the author of an incredible book called, Listen to this, The Spider, Inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine Maxwell. Wow. He is a veteran investigative reporter and editor, both in print and in TV.

Barry, you devoted a huge chunk of your life to writing this book about Epstein and Maxwell, and it is amazing. I've got so many questions for you, but I want to start with something we don't normally hear about regarding Epstein. I've done a lot of research on this, but I'm sure. you have outdone me. I want to talk about the U.S. Virgin Islands. Why do I want to talk about that? Because we've been focusing a lot as has the public on the Epstein files. Even though we were promised they would be released, it hasn't happened. I smell a rat. Now, I could go down that road, but there's something I'd like you to educate everyone about. Okay. And that is the

fact that Epstein wasn't just finding teen girls in Florida that were usually underprivileged, single parent home, no money, no hopes. He wasn't just praying on them. At his height, he had about, give or take, $500, 600 million. Yet he was trading, moving billions, be as in brother, billions of dollars. Now, everybody that has a bank account knows you can't transfer more money than you have. I want to know where the money is coming from and regarding the U.S. Virgin Islands. This sex child sex trafficking ring is a lot bigger than a few girls down in Palm Beach. We are talking about Europe. We are talking about Eastern Europe. We are talking about children, girls, as young as 12 years old, being put on planes and flown to the U.S. Virgin Islands, delivered like a pizza to Jeffrey Epstein. And then his French counterpart, Jean-Luc Brunel, is dead behind bars. Wow, what a co-inkie-dink. You have uncovered evidence that this is a worldwide operation.

Explain. That's absolutely correct, Nancy. And I'm hoping that if we ever get into these Epstein files, 300 gigabytes of material, that's hundreds of thousands of pages, that we will help uncover the enablers who assisted Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Nancy, you have to remember that after Jeffrey Epstein received that, that slap on the wrist conviction down in Florida in 2008 as part of that non-prosecution agreement in which he only had a plea guilty to state charges for solicitation of a minor

and was given a sweetheart deal of 14 months behind bars, of which most of the time he was not. Levine, I just want to tell you something. You're actually making my stomach hurt. actually hurting right now. If I had gotten a hold of this guy, he would have been under the jail, under the jail. And he actually had his limo pick him up, his limo at the Palm Beach jail and drive him wherever he wanted to go. That's not punishment. It's just so, who is covering for this guy? At this point, he's dead. So he's not getting covered. Somebody else is covering for somebody else.

But I'm sorry. I interrupted. Please go ahead. Absolutely right, Nancy. It was sickening in terms of that slap on the wrist in Florida. At the time, the FBI wanted to put him away for 75 years. And then he got that sweetheart deal. And when he was out on work release, he had an ankle bracelet.

And he was having sex, as I reported in my book, with victims. while he had the ankle monitor on his on his leg anyway okay hold on i gotta just hold that image in my mind and i used to tell juries i know it's disgusting you may go home and vomit but you have to think about it you have to think about this okay i'm going to make you think about it levin jeffrey epstein naked on his massage table with galane maxwell not just present but actually the girls with him. Yeah. Let's think about that.

And when you say victims, little girls, and I believe you can prove this, little girls as young as 12, being flown from Russia, Turkey, and beyond to the Virgin Islands delivered directly to Jeffrey Epstein. There are witnesses that see the little girls

getting off the plane and going to his mansion, not just one, not just two, a steady stream. There are thousands of victims, which leads me to who in the hell are the other men that can are wealthy enough to pay to fly to U.S. Virgin Islands and have sex with a 12-year-old girl. By God, I am not letting this go, Levine. And you shouldn't. And the American public and the victims, over a thousand victims, want answers. And that's why we need to open up these FBI files because we need to find the men who put these girls on planes.

They didn't get on planes themselves. There were men in these remote locations in Russia, in Turkey, in Turkmen, Eastern European countries. Jeffrey Epstein was afraid of the Palm Beach police. He was afraid of the NYPD after that slap on the risk conviction. So he moved his sex trafficking to his island in the Virgin Island. And there he used enablers. And you mentioned one, Jean-Loup Brunel, who was a French modeling agent, who after Jeffrey Epstein's death, he himself ended up behind bars in Paris on charges and mysteriously

also died behind bars in a similar fashion to Jeffrey Epstein. we still don't have answers to how John Luke Brunel actually died. But we do know that he was one of the men, who was one of the enabors who put these young girls on planes. Once they arrived at the airport in the Virgin Islands, they were then ferried by boat to Jeffrey Epstein's house and on little St. James. And we know that it was horrific. He made the girls call him the godfather. He had a gunstrap to one of his bedposts. one victim was so terrified that she actually attempted to swim off the island, only to turn back when she realized the water currents and so forth. This was a island of hearts that Jeffrey

Epstein brought these girls to. And only now are we beginning to learn some of the circumstances. I have to applaud Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, who is looking into The 4,700 wire transfers totaling $1 billion of money that Jeffrey Epstein used to pay out these enablers and others. The money was put through Russian banks. We need to get down to the bottom of all this. We need him to continue his investigation. And we absolutely need to dig into those FBI files to see if there are men out there that the U.S. could work with other governments on in terms of bringing

some of these enablers to justice. You know, you said this was an island of horrors and the one little girl tried to swim away. I mean, of course, I'm projecting about my little girl, these tiny, tiny little thing, even now at 17, at age 12, okay? When I was age 12, I didn't even know what a period was. When my front store neighbor told me,

I thought it was a joke. 12-year-old girls. And now, hold that thought in your mind. A 12-year-old little girl. Fourth, fifth grade. Somebody puts her on a plane with other little girls. A private plane. She is flown to Epstein's Island, two miles from shore.

She's thrown to the mainland, and then she's ferried to the island. I've learned from research. Why am I saying all this? Because there's a chain, a private plane in, let's just pretend Russia, or one of the stands. Somebody has a log of the private plane. That plane brings little girls to the mainland, USVI. Then they get off the plane. Somebody sees them getting off the plane.

And there are witnesses. You know there are witnesses about the little girls filing off the plane. Then they get onto a ferry. Why do I care? Because that gives me other witnesses, the captain, the crew, that ferry the little girls and hand them over to Epstein. Somebody meets them at the ferry and brings them in. Now, 12 years old, what, 70 pounds, 60 pounds, maybe?

Virginia's your freight describes being taken into the massage. room where she is put on top of Epstein and he her and then they give her $200 and send her on her way. These girls 12 years old, many if not all of them virgins, not knowing what was happening to them until they are and we are going to stand by and do and do nothing. I'm not.

I don't care what kind of hell rains down on me. This is so wrong. And there are thousands of little girl victims. Little girls. I don't understand it. And another thing, Levine, all this business at one point, Bondi said, I've got a client list right here on my desk. Now, she's saying there is no client list.

Okay. You know what? There may not be a client list per se, but the clients will be discernible through investigation. Who was on those flights? Who came to the home? There are thousands of hours of video. Who's in the video? Who was he making the transfers to and from, the money transfers? That's your client list. You just have to look for it. Yeah, I mean, it's, there's so much material in those FBI files. There's U.S. Marshall reports of flight logs specifically to the Virgin Islands. There's so much that investigators can dig into. And I don't understand why it's taken us this long to get to this point of saying, hey, what the hell happened there? And why aren't we bringing people with justice? And I can't stand the fact that they're making this.

into politics. Just release the files. Let investigators go through them and bring together an international consortium of law enforcement to apprehend these guys because they're out there. I had a guess the other night, Barry, that represented nine and it's growing of the little girl victims. And they describe corporate clients. Rich guys. that want to have sex with a 12-year-old virgin, an American 12-year-old virgin. Why do I care if it's American? Because it's on our soil and we have jurisdiction. I can't control what's happening in Russia and Turkey and the stands, but we can't control

what's happening in the U.S. There are men, and I have prosecuted many of them. And it's outside the realm of a lot of people's understanding, and I'm glad that it is. Why should they have to know this? There are millions of men that would pay thousands of dollars to a 12-year-old vote. Do I like it? No. Is it real?

Yes. Who are these people? And why have they not been brought to justice? So this lawyer that I interviewed knows who many of the clients, aka John's, a. child rapists are, but he's bound to attorney-client privilege, and he can't reveal what his victims have said. It's real. This is not some wacky conspiracy theory. This is real. Explain to me how you know it's real. It is real. And, you know, I've been through thousands of documents. I've been through some confidential court files there are men in fact Alan Dershowitz who helped

i should say Jeffrey Epstein get that sweetheart deal as his lead attorney back in 2008 he's come out and said he's aware of the list of men but the fact of the matter is none of these individuals are willing to put these names out and it's going to take as i said some type of international law enforcement group to pull this together to begin going after the men not only the men who are in the united states but the international fixtures but also individuals who are in his circle who he invited to that aisle we need to get a list or a real list not just some of the redacted flight law we need to get the real list that's in those documents and I'm not saying that every individual who is brought to that island

took part in any criminality a huge majority of them probably did not but there are people that need to be investigated and put him up we need to go after Levine yeah I got a bone to pick with you if an American wanted to meet with Epstein for any legitimate reason why not just me you know, at Taos Bagels in New York. All right. Why do you have to fly to his secret island off the U.S. Virgin Islands, which I would like to point out is under U.S. sovereignty. Correct. We have jurisdiction there, but we're doing nothing about it. First, we've got to deal with what's

happening right here on our home soil. Then we can deal with them. But you have Doug and Doug and Doug, and you have proof that this happened. What is your strongest evidence, Barry? The evidence, as I said, Nancy, is in confidential files. It is with women who have gone through FBI interviews. It is for women who have done depositions. The problem with a lot of this is that Jeffrey Epstein initially did a lot of deals to make a lot of this stuff go away with these women.

He paid millions of dollars, and there were settlements, and a lot of that material is under court seal, and someone has to be able to bring forward those documents to review and come up with a legal way of going after those men, because unless we can get the enablers, unless we can get the men who took part in the sex trafficking, we're never going to get any. justice for his victims. And that's something that we have to do. Hey, Barry, I don't know if you can see the screen or not, but I want

you to look at Epstein. Have you ever wanted to attack someone? Because when I look at that smug smile, I literally want to just scratch his lips off his face knowing what I know.

I know this happened. And I know Galane Maxwell helped him, and I know that there are rich guys that will pay thousands of dollars to him and Galane Maxwell to have with a 12 year old girl. I know this happened. And it's not just me spinning it out right here. There have been, oh, I believe my last telling was around $200 million settlement with various banks, like Deutsche Bank for one, but there are many banks with. With, whom Epstein did business and that money is dirty money from sex trafficking. These

victims sued and they got millions of dollars from the banks. You think, let me see Barry Levine. Barry Levine, you know how banks are. They will squeeze a penny out of you. If you write a check, they'll get a penny. They'll think of any way. You go to an ATM or Oh, get ready to shell out $25 for withdrawing money. They will think of any way to get one penny from you. Yet they have settled over $200 million with Epstein victims. Why? Why did these banks settle?

Because for years this went on and they looked the other way. And it was only recently after his death that the victims and the victims' lawyers began piecing this together and realized that the root of all this is the money. The famous saying from all the president's men, the Watergate story, follow the money. And as I said, Senator Wyden is one individual, a saint who is actually going after some of these men and going down that money trail. And why we're going down the money trail now, I don't understand. This should have happened back at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest, at the time of his death. Why we're now, all these years later, finally getting to this, I just don't understand.

Because it was all there. It was all there. And now, I'm afraid, with the passage of time, that a lot of these men are going to get away. Crime Stores with Nancy Grace But my question, if you could boil it down to a nutshell, why did these big banks fork out over $200 million settlement to the girl victims? What did the banks do wrong? Banks?

There were individuals with the banks who took Jeffrey Epstein's money and allegedly looked the other way in terms of all these funny transactions, the wire transfers, the billions of dollars that went through these banks. Not only, he had 156 bank accounts, Jeffrey Epstein, according to his estate, so executives of his estate, 150. So money was flying all over the place. But wait, there's got to be more, Barry. It's not just that somebody looked the other way when Epstein was doing questionable bank maneuvers. They didn't pay the settlement to just anybody.

They paid the settlement to sex trafficking girl victims. Why? What's the nexus? The banks paid the little girls. Why? Because they didn't want bank officials being prosecuted. That's the way I look at it. because if the feds really took a hard look,

it's very possible that they could have brought up some individuals on charges. And the fact is the banks were willing to watch. Are you trying to say in a very, very, very roundabout way that some of the banking officials knew about the child sex trafficking, that they should have known, or that this money they were making possible for Epstein, was funded by international child sex trafficking. Isn't that true?

That is true, Nancy. And in fact, there are some individuals who have been accused of wrongdoing. But at the end of the day, there's been settlements because of the banks in terms of culpability. And no one has ever been charged related to the banks. Now, there have been individuals who have lost their jobs related to these banks. Oh, boo-hoo. prosecuted. They made money. The banks made money off these girls and this sex trafficking ring. And I can't emphasize it enough. I typically do not believe in conspiracies because I don't

think people are able to keep their yap shut long enough to protect a conspiracy. What do I mean by that? Example, OJ was framed. No, he wasn't because some on the LAPD would make a $3 million advance for telling the conspiracy in a big, fat, juicy book that will be a major motion picture. They'll give up their badges. They don't care. They'll lose their retirement for three mil. That never happened. Why? Because there was no conspiracy. I don't believe in conspiracies. This I believe in. This was a multi-jurisdictional child sex trafficking ring. to the tune of billions of dollars as proven by Epstein's banking accounts. I am talking about Russia, Turkey, um, the stands, France, where Jean-Luc Brunel was,

sending little girls to Epstein. And you're right, Levine, Florida was onto him, New York was on to him, hence U.S. Virgin Islands, where nobody would know and nobody would say a damn thing. It's, it's, the whole thing is tragic. After Jeffrey Epstein's death, there was one woman in the U.S. Virgin Islands who was the attorney general at the time,

Denise George, who took this thing on while the government wanted to look the other way. She did the heavy lifting. She began sending out subpoenas. She wanted to investigate his company in the Virgin Islands called Southern Trump. Please don't tell me she's dead. She's not dead, but she was fired from her job because she was upsetting higher-ups in the government because they wanted to make all this go away.

And she went after the estate, she named the Southern Trust as nothing more than a criminal enterprise, a front for his sex trafficking. And on her own, without the help of the Southern District in New York or other prosecutors from her little island office, she was subpoenaing billionaire friends of Jeffrey Epstein, trying to get to the bottom of all this and and when she was making so much noise that the government above her said you know what this is this is we don't want to take this investigation on on our own you've done enough after that they basically said you're going to wash your hands of this and when she wouldn't do that this strong-willed woman denise storage was fired from her job which to me is absolutely horrible because if there's any good people in this story, she is at the top of that list because she tried. And now with the work that she did,

it's now in the hands of the lawmakers and law enforcement in the U.S. to pick up the pieces of her investigation and go after these men. You know, we keep having people testifying about this. I would love to hear her testify under oath about what she learned and what she investigated and who she subpoenaed and then got fired, thrown out on the street because she was exposing Epstein and his wealthy clients. I mean, 4,700 wire transfers to the tune of billion with a B, as in brother, of dollars that he didn't have. Follow the money. And you know what? At this moment, on top of my head, I don't know if Wyden is a Republican or a Democrat, and I don't care what he is. I just hope Denise George and Wyden don't end up dead, like so many other people

connected to this case. I saw one estimate it's up in the 20s. People connected to this case now dead. That's quite the spate of suicides. But before I get to Jean-Luc Brunel or Jenny Jafray, many of Epstein's then child victims. Now they suddenly all commit suicide as this thing is heating up. Okay. I want to talk about, this is like dirt in my mouth. Galane Maxwell. You know what? Everybody always talks about, oh, she's so glamour. She's so sophisticated. She's so educated. Born the silver spoon in her mouth. Do not care. She looks like the devil to me. Because not just one, not just two, many, many of these little girl victims say, she was the spider. She lured them into the web. She didn't just hand them over to Epstein,

a little 12-year-old girl to get. She took part in the, is that so hard for people to believe? It's real. They all said it. Not just one girl, not just two, but many little girls said she them. She's evil. Yeah, I mean, the only way she justified this, she told friends, and I quoted them in my book, she said

to me, these girls are nothing but trash. He basically... Okay, stop. Stop, stop. Put him up. Put him up. I have that written in my notes. And I didn't say it. Because it's very hurtful.

You know, I think about the girls, 12, and I remember coming home a latchkey kid on a red dirt road in the middle of nowhere, mom and dad both at work, these girls came home, nobody was there until they befriended Gilane Maxwell. And she said, and you quote, these girls are nothing but trash. And we have to say that now because there are people who want to see her sentence lessened. There are people around her who want to see her pardoned by the president. We have to continue to remind the public what her. Her view was of these women, these girls at the time. Girls, girls. Yeah.

That's correct. Some of them hadn't even had a period for Pete's sake. But we have to keep on pounding this point because she was, she brought these girls to Epstein, not only so he could read them, but she also took part in the sexual abuse. And we have to keep her behind bars. She's an animal, and she deserved the sentence for brave women testified against her at her trial. One of them died of an accidental drug overdose because these women still suffering to this day, they still can't, many of them, still can't move beyond their childhoods being taken by these two, the predatory. predatory Bonnie and Clyde as I called them in my book. But even calling them a Bonnie and Clyde

is not nice enough in terms of what they did. They were both sexual predators. They were both animals. And she needs not to receive being a minimum security camp where she is now in Texas. She should be in an absolute maximum security facility. It's horrible in terms of how she is manipulating individuals in the government right now to get what she wants. And that's wrong. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Find everyone because it's getting lost in the sauce that the reason Gailene Maxwell is convicted right now in sentence to 20 years. is because four then little girls testified against her scrawny, bony, rear end about them.

And I know you don't want to think about it, but you have to judge the facts, even if they taste bad going down. She was convicted from little girls herself. What does she do? hold them down while he ran them, digitally them. I don't know what she did. But hold that in your mind when you look at her picture. Hold that in your mind when you try to figure out if Galane Maxwell will ever tell the truth.

There's only one way. She may tell part of the truth, and that's to save her own skin. What can she offer? us. Why do I even want her? That's doing a deal with the devil, Levine. It is. And the government has already accused her perjury. So anything she says, anything that comes out of her mouth has to be corroborated by fact, has to be corroborated by documents, has to be cooperated by other victims. We can't take anything that she said as truthful because she has lied from the very beginning and it is appalling that that officials even went out of their way to go down to Florida to interview her okay she was being treated like she was a special VIP

to me that was so wrong but listen if she if she what about the 10th thousand tapes of child abuse. He's got, there were 10,000 tapes. Every place he had was blanketed in video cams. In fact, do you point this out, Levine, and a lot of people didn't know this, that he actually had local police, Ali, come to his place in Florida to set up the video cams, to catch people stealing from him. In other words, video.

John's, rich Johns, having 12 year old little girls. That's why. And they went along with it and set up the video cams in his place. Yeah. It's disturbing in terms of

how a police department in Palm Beach Jeffrey Epstein gave money in terms of charities to the police he called on them and said hey, I've got employees stealing from me. Would you come over here and helped me set up secret surveillance cameras in my home. They went over there and they

did that. And he ended up using those cameras to report not only his own criminality, but also that of other individuals. And we still don't know where all these tapes on. He had homes in Palm Beach. He had his townhouse in New York. He had his ranch, the Zoro Ranch in New Mexico. He had, of course, the island in the Virgin Islands. And then he had the apartment in Paris. He had each and every one of his homes wired for secret surveillance. So there's thousands and thousands and thousands of tapes. And the government is sitting on some material.

But I also believe that there's other tapes that are out there. I tell a story in my book about how incensed one detective from Palm Beach was after Epstein received that slap on the wrist, because they had compiled 40 victims initially in their investigation. And this detective allegedly turned over evidence to an individual who now is in Russia and apparently has some of that. that material. So who has that material? Do the Russians have that material? Do the authorities over there have that material? Is it, is it blackmail material? We don't know. There is so much that still has to be done related to this case. Barry, why are we, why have we been lied to? Why are we not getting the files? You know, we were promised that this was going to be the most transparent presidency in history.

I'm going to get the JFK files or Martin Luther King files. President Trump was asked during the campaign, would he release the Jeffrey Epstein files? He said he would. He put it in the hands of Pam Bondi, who promised that she was going to release the files. And then over Fourth of July weekend, we were Stonewalled. We received a two-page memo that basically said Jeffrey Epstein died behind bars.

There was nothing nefarious about his death. There was no client list. There's no blackmail. And everybody basically go home. It reminded me of the scene in Wizard of Oz where Dorothy, they killed a witch and she takes the broom. And the wizard basically says, thank you. But you can all go home now, or you can all leave. I'm not going to help you.

Why are we being stonewalled on the files? This, we don't know. Are there names of individuals that they're trying to protect? What's in the files that's so sensitive and so secret that they can't share that material with the American public and with his victims? And of course, there should be redacted. of victims and information about the victims. And there's information about some third parties

that maybe weren't involved with us. You have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein lived in two worlds. He lived in his criminality, and then he also lived in this world of celebrities, scientists, Harvard school officials. He would hold symposiums and seminars and fly important people down to his island and talk about scientific things that he found fascinating. So he was blurring these two.

You know, whatever, and then they go to 12-year-old. Okay, so there. I got to tell you something, Barry. I love our country. And I love deeply our justice system. It was my savior after my fiance was murdered. And I am loyal to our country, regardless of who's in the White House. But I have to tell you, I feel sick over this because our government, our own government that we elected is hiding this evidence.

And I think it precedes this administration. It was hidden before this. It goes all the way back that I know of to a cover up in Palm Beach. Long before this White House administration, our government is covering up for the wealthy and privileged. And the little girls are being treated like trash, just like Yulain Maxwell called them. I'm embarrassed and sickened, but not disabled. What can we do, if anything, to get Justice Barry? Right now we have to hope that these lawmakers who are bringing in individuals,

and apparently there's been promised that the Justice Department is going to begin turning over the files. It's a small step, but at least someone is going to get their hands on some of this material. And they're promising that eventually the American public will see this and see the transcripts of the depositions that they're taking. It's a small step, but it's something. But what's infuriating is that with one executive order, or a signature. We could have, the public could have all of these documents for the proper investigators

to go through and determine are there individuals that need to be brought to justice. And until that happens, none of us can ever rest. We have to keep up pressure on the government, our government, to do the right thing. Nobody's going to do the right thing until they're threatened financial. eventually until they think they're going to lose their job, they're going to get sued. That's the only time. Unless they're threatened with exposure, then they might come clean when it comes right down to the wire. I've learned so much from your essay in the New York Times and from your book, The Spider,

inside the tangled web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilae Maxwell. Barry, thank you. Thank you, Nancy. We remember an American hero, Officer Brian Hawkins, Lake City, PD, Georgia, killed in the line of duty after serving 22 years in L.E., leaving behind his grieving wife, Renee. American hero, Officer Brian Hawkins. Nancy Gray, signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.