Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TOT BOY, 3, DROWNS IN INFLUENCER-HOME POOL, DAD INSIDE BETTING ON KNICKS GAME

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

Social Media influencer Emilie Kiser leaves her husband, Brady, in charge of their two small boys, 3-year-old Trigg, and 5-week-old baby Theodore, while she goes out for a much needed dinner with friends. Brady is feeding the baby a bottle when Trigg finishes his dinner and heads outside to play in the backyard.   Brady is sitting in a chair feeding the baby a bottle while he watches Trigg playing in the yard. The three-year-old is in the grass area of the backyard near a blow-up slide, playhouse by the swimming pool and an elevated portion where the hot tub is located. Brady says he went into the house to get a drink and when he went back outside, Trigg was in the water of the swimming pool.   Setting the infant on the ground, Brady takes off his shirt and dives in the pool and grabs Trigg, who is unconscious and not breathing. Rushing him into the house, Brady lays Trigg on the floor and begins doing CPR while simultaneously calling 911. Blowing air into the child's mouth, Trigg vomits food and water.   The 911 call gets police and fire rescue on the way. When police arrive they take over doing chest compressions and Brady goes outside and retrieves baby Theordore. Brady tells police he was only away from Trigg for moments, not minutes. He is very specific on this, moments not minutes. After more questioning he says he may have been away for 3 to 5 minutes.  After a two-month investigation, the Chandler Police Department says they are recommending a felony charge against Brady Kiser in the drowning death of his three-year-old son, Trigg. The Class 4 Felony Charge of Child Abuse against Kiser was submitted to the Maricopa County Attorney's office.  However, the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office opted not to charge Brady Kiser because the case did not meet the standard of a “reasonable likelihood of conviction.”  Joining Nancy Grace today: Josh Kolsrud  - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KohlsrudLawOffices Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,”  featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive  Jay Arthur -  Drowning expert, Safety and Health Educator, President of The Downing Prevention Coalition of Arizona, Former Phoenix Fire Captain for 36 years/ Involved in drowning prevention and water safety in the state of Arizona for over 36 years,  preventdrownings.org, INSTA: Instagram: @preventdrowningsaz  Dr. Kendall Crowns -  Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast "Mayhem in the morgue" launching AUGUST 20, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)  Gigi McKelvey  -  Journalist, Host  “Pretty Lies and Alibis,” prettyliesandalibis.org, Facebook, IG, TikTok: @PrettyLiesAndAlibis, Twitter: @PrettiesLiesAlibi  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful tot boy, just three years old, drowns in an internet star influencer's home pool, while daddy inside betting on the Knicks. And there are no change. charges. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. In a quiet Arizona neighborhood, a young mother heads out for a day with friends, leaving her three-year-old son at home in the care of his father. But before the afternoon is

over, everything will change forever. Yes, they changed forever. The three-year-old top boy is dead while daddy inside placing bets on the next game. Let me understand something. Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Tell me what the bet was. That's what I need to understand. What was the bet that Daddy was so busy placing

while his three-year-old was outside by the pool? He bets $25 that Celtic star Jason Tatum will score more than 40 points in the Game 4 NBA playoff game against the New York Knicks. That was the wager. You bet $25. Okay, now wait a minute. So it wasn't just a, I think the Knicks are going to win, but bet.

This was more of a sophisticated bet. Very. It was actually very specific, too. It was betting that Jason Tatum would score more than 40 points. That's one player scoring in an entire game, Nancy. You can pick apart anything you want to bet in any game. But that's not something the average daily better does. You bet wins and losses.

This is very sophisticated, Katie. Dr. Bethany Marshall, let me get back to gambling. Dr. Bethany Marshall, we're now psychoanalyst, joining us out of the L.A. jurisdiction, author of Deal Breakers, you can see her now on Peacock. And you can find her at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com. Dr. Bethany, I don't see the attraction, okay. When my husband and I, and we took the twins, went to Vegas to see shows and see the Grand Canyon and go hike Red Rock Canyon, I went and put in with the children, or whatever,

a quarter or one token and a slot just to say, I went to Vegas and I gambled. And immediately when I did it, I went, well, okay, there goes a quarter. I'll never see that again. It's not even remotely attractive to me. But people, I get it, they're addicted to gambling just like alcohol or drugs or pornography. I don't get it because the house always wins. So what is that? This is not just an ordinary bet like, hey, I think the Knicks are going to win. This was a very specific bet. Like, you kind of know what you're doing. Well, you know, gambling is so complex, but at the end of the day, I think of it as the gambler has this preoccupation that some future payoff will compensate for everything that's wrong in the moment. I don't have to pay attention

to the fact that I'm driving a clunker car because once I get to the casino, I'm going to make millions of dollars. So the present is not important. And the gambling becomes so preoccupying, Nancy, he may have been engaging in what we call the gambler's fallacy. And that is that once you place a bet, that bet will likely pay out. So if you're at the racetrack and you bet on a horse, you believe that horse is going to win. So you are going to hang out at the track and watch that horse cross the finish line. So that makes an argument in my mind that this father was very preoccupied watching his player and believed he had control of the outcome and that his player was having some bizarre form of a winning streak. Okay, you lost me on gambler's fallacy. What is that? Gambler's fallacy

is the illusion of control over the outcome. Again, if I place a bet on that horse, the very fact that I placed a bat making I plead that that horse will win. Another fallacy or mistake is that a losing streak will give way to a winning streak. So if I'm in front of a gambling machine, okay, I'm in Vegas and I keep dropping quarters in, if I drop 20 quarters in and they do not pay off, I now think I have a hot machine because it's been on a losing streak that is more likely that I will get a big payoff. So you can see gamblers have distorted thinking. I would think just the opposite. I would think this machine is already eaten. What is that? Like $10 of my money? That could go into the children's college tuition fund.

And I'm not giving it one more dollar. Forget it. No. And I want my money back. But with gamblers, it becomes a preoccupation. The other thing they do, Nancy, is that they chase their losses. So if you drop the 20 quarters in and there's no payoff, then you'll keep dropping the quarters in to make up for the quarters you've lost. So you can see there's all kinds of what we call cognitive distortions or disordered thinking that then leads to the gambling and becomes reinforced over time. Also something else called intermittent reinforcement. That's when every time you get some small win, it makes you believe because you've had. that small reward that you will continue to be rewarded. The more random, the reward, the more it increases the gambler's behavior because they begin to think that they have control over the

outcome. At the end of the day, Nancy, gambling is preoccupying. It's a compulsion. It dominates the gambling addict's mind. So it makes complete sense in a case like this that would be very hard to track the movements of a three-year-old if you're gambling at the same time. Okay, and again, I have no reason to accuse the dad of being addicted to gambling. What I do know is that he was gambling inside on a very specific Knicks game bet while his three-year-old was outside and he knew the tot was outside by the pool and he also knew. that the kid catcher, which is a safety net that goes over the pool, was not on the pool. Those are the facts I know.

Okay, I know that from what I can discern from these police reports, and I want you to see these, because at the request of the family, they've all been redacted. Like, okay, I had to work really hard to find out what I do know. So I've never seen a case where all of the facts were. redacted so the public can't see what really happened. That said, listen to this. Social media influencer Emily Kaiser leaves her husband Brady in charge of their two small boys, three-year-old Trigg and five-week-old baby Theodore while she goes out for a much-needed dinner with friends. Brady is feeding the baby a bottle when Trigg finishes his dinner and heads

outside to play in the backyard. In addition to Dr. Bethany Marshall and Crime Stories Investigator reporter joining us now is Gigi McKelvey investigative journalist host our pretty lies and alibis Gigi thank you for being with us what do we know happened that day and I want to get the dad's final statement because his statement as to what happened when his son drowned changed you know what actually let's start at the beginning that's a good place to start. What was dad's first statement to police about his son's drowning? Well, Brady told police on scene that he had a chair that was facing outside to the backyard where he could feed his newborn as well as watch trig as he was outside playing. And that story changed over time

due to the family's home surveillance system, which captured the entire event on camera. What actually happened is the child was unattended for nine solid minutes. Okay, Gigi. Dad's first story is he's inside, mom's gone out to dinner with friends. He, dad is home alone with two children. One of them is three-year-old top boy trig. The other is a newborn infant. He is inside feeding the infant. Is that correct? Yes. Gigi, doesn't he state that he knew Trigg, the three-year-old, was going outside. Yeah. And I'll start from the beginning with that. Whoa, whoa, wait. I just want to get nailed on a few facts. And doesn't Dad State? He saw Trigg by the pool. Outdoors, right? Yes, by the hot tub, which is attached to the pool up on a platform. Okay. All right.

In the first statement, G.G. McKelvey, how long did Dad State, Trigg, the three-year-old, was unattended in the backyard. He first told arriving officers on scene for five minutes that he did not have eyes on his son, Trigg. Okay, five minutes. But then when the home surveillance video is pulled, we learn a different story. In a nutshell to Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth.

He is the star of a hit new podcast that has just hit the air, Mayhem, and, the morgue. He is a esteemed lecturer at Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and has performed literally thousands of autopsies, including child drowning victims. One question, Dr. Kendall Crowns. I'm going to circle back for a more in-depth analysis. How long does it take a human to drown? So it's as long as you can hold your breath, but then the drowning process starts. once the drowning process starts, you're going to probably go unconscious within about three minutes or so, and then you'll be dead shortly thereafter. With a child, you know, he falls on the water.

It startles him. He takes a sudden deep breath, and he's already started the drowning process. So I think once he goes in the water, he's probably going to be dead within about three minutes. What a horrible way to die by drowning. Guys, listen to this. Brady is sitting in a chair feeding the baby a bottle while he wants to watches Trigg playing in the yard. Three-year-old is in the grass area of the backyard near a blow-up

slide playhouse by the swimming pool and an elevated portion where the hot tub is located. Brady says he went into the house to get a drink and when he went back outside, Trigg was in the water of the swimming pool. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable.

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me again, Dave MacKee. crime stories, investigative reporter, walk me through that first statement. Yeah, the first statement, Nancy, actually paints a wonderful picture of dad watching his three-year-old toddler playing with his seat position where he can see right out there in the yard. He's holding the baby five weeks old and feeding him a bottle, and he's totally focused on

what's happening with the baby and with the toddler. He tells police three to five minutes is all he did. He got it to get him something to drink. when they asked him specifically, well, what did you get? What did you do? What took you away from watching your toddler? I'm not really sure, but I think I went in and got something to drink. I think that's what I was doing. But it was only three to five minutes. In the space of a half hour dances, he told a couple of different additions to his three minutes or five minutes. He wasn't exactly sure, but it was some, he even said specifically, it wasn't minutes. It was moments. So that was the initial. story that Brady told police when they arrived. I was wondering if you were going to hit that, Dave Mac, because I have in my notes right here, in quotes, dad away quotes, moments, not minutes, moments, not minutes. But listen.

The 911 call gets police and fire rescue on the way. When police arrive, they take over doing chest compressions, and Brady goes outside and retrieves baby Theodore. Brady tells police, he was only away from Trigg for moments, not minutes. He is very specific on this, moments, not minutes. After more questioning, he says he may have been away for three to five minutes. What began as a sunny, uneventful day at home, soon turned into a sequence of events that no one could have predicted, and that would leave the Kaiser family shattered. You know, I'm very curious. I'm going to get into dads, let me just say, evolving statement. Again, dad has not been charged. Mommy, the influencer, was not home at the time.

Dad has not been charged, which leads me to the question, why. Um, let me understand something. Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer. You may know him very well. Josh Coltrude. He is a, as I said, veteran trial lawyer out of this jurisdiction. Arizona, former assistant U.S. attorney, that's not easy. That's a Fed. And founder of the Coles Rood Law Offices. Okay, that's quite the resume. You know your way around the courtroom. Why no charges? Because from what I can tell, whenever a mother ignores the baby and the baby dies, the mom always gets charged. I mean, I'm trying to think of a case. Help me out, Jackie, where the mom hasn't been charged.

It doesn't matter what she's doing. If she's taking an app, she's charged. She's having a drink. She's charged. If she's playing online, she's charged. I mean, let me ask you the first question, Josh, if I may be so bold, as to call you by your first name. Lady Justice is depicted as wearing a blindfold.

Is she not? Yes, that's true. And to answer your first question, I think, traditionally mothers spend more time with their children than fathers do, although that's changing. So there might be more cases involving mothers who are charged with neglecting their children than fathers. But in this case, you know, Brady was almost charged and the Chandler Police Department did submit. I'm sorry, I just choked on my heart tea. Okay, almost. It's like I'm almost pregnant. Either you are or you're not. It's pretty clear. And my question to you,

I'm going to follow up on what you mean by almost charged. You're absolutely right. The PD said, here's the charges. Here's the facts. And the DA declined. Again, dad has not been charged. But I'm asking you, Josh, you've represented a lot of dads on various charges. You fobbed me off. You said, when I asked, why do the moms always get charged and never the dad's? You said, well, mother spend more time with the children. That's really not an answer. And I'll tell you why I think moms always get charged. If a mom did this, if she was inside having a white wine or she's inside doing her nails, oh yeah, her rear end would be down there getting fingerprinted right now. Okay. It's because that people say, oh, dad is feeding the baby.

Isn't that sweet? Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold for a reason, Coles Rude, because Lady Justice is to be blind to the defendants, race, gender, age, nationality, religion, justice is supposed to be blind. And that includes whether you're not, your wife is a famous internet star influencer, and the dad. It doesn't matter. So why? No charges. Every mom gets charged. Well, the law isn't a hammer for every nail of misfortune. And here we have a tragic accident. And Brady wasn't accused of drinking wine inside the house or anything like that. He wasn't accused of sitting in a gambling

den placing bets. In fact, the bets that he placed, the one bet happened 70 to 90 minutes before the drowning. And what this case really is about is the pool. You know, the pool is the killer. It's a silent killer.

And, you know, we were talking before the show started. Okay, put him up, please. Josh, Coltruth, so it's the pool's fault. The pool is the killer. Did you just say that? Yes. The pool. did it. Okay. Was the pool responsible for watching the baby? The pool is a silent killer. It's not like

when a fire starts and you hear an alarm go off, you or you smell smoke. You know, you trust the system to work. And here, you don't have a father who's, you know, careless in that respect. They had alarms on the doors. They did have a pool cover. The dad is inside with eyes, not on the tot. I don't know what you're talking about. That is negligence and a death occurred. I mean, I'm just putting it out there. I'm not saying he's a bad person.

I'm not saying he was inside drunk or high. I'm saying he was supposed to watch the baby and he didn't and now the baby's dead. The pool did nothing. The pool was just sitting there. The pool is not the killer. He was doing what many, maybe even most parents do, which is trying to multitask.

he had a five-week-old infant in his arms who he was feeding. You know, in nine minutes, you know, it sounds like a lifetime in just one picture, but when you put life into it, the story becomes to unfold that this is just what human beings do. Nine minutes is folding your clothes. Nine minutes is starting the water to boil. You know, what he... I don't care.

I'm sorry. I don't care. You save that for the jury. Save it for the jury because it does. it matter if he is folding clothes or feeding a baby or or having wine or beer or gamut? It does not matter. What matters is his eyes were to be on the baby. They chose to have a home with a pool. They chose not to have the kid catcher mesh net on top. The baby was outside and he was not watching the baby. I don't know how in your right mind. Now I know why you win so many cases

because I'm watching you, it's like a snake charmer, and I'm starting to weave right along with you that it was just a tragic accent. You know what? Hold on. I need some backup here. Again, dad has not been charged. Let me be clear. And in our system, you are innocent until you are proven guilty by a jury of your peers. Now, the question is whether the elected attorney is going to bring charges to J. Arthur joining us, drowning expert safety health educator, president of the drowning prevention coalition of Arizona. Oh my stars, your resume is a book. Former Phoenix Fire Captain for 36 years. Drowning prevention water safety and the state of Arizona over 36 years. First responder has dealt with many, many drowning incidents. And you can find him on

Insta at Prevent Drownings, A-Z for Arizona. Jay, do you hear Cole's Rude? The problem with the situation involving the drowning there really unfolds to a lot of ignorance on part of the parent. A lot of things happened. I think a lot of it was distraction, the gambling part, that they talked about, a lot of the distractions that compounded itself, just watching a two-month-old baby along with being concerned about placing the vet, watching TV, and those

kind of things all coming and play. And that's really one of the biggest issues we have with drowning as our community is that distraction plays a key role in all of that that happens. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

A small lab in Texas is cracking. tracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I'm trying to understand what everybody is saying here because for me it's very, very clear. Dr. Bethany Marshall, when someone is driving and they start texting, they are distracted. and when they have a wreck because of texting and kill somebody, it's still vehicular homicide. Not that they intended for a death to occur. They didn't. Okay, let's think about, here's a good one, Alec Baldwin, who picked up a gun and fired and pulled the trigger on the set of Rust. Do I believe he meant to kill the cinematographer,

a mother of one? No. Of course, he didn't mean to kill Helena Hutchins. Okay. When you are distracted for any reason driving, when you are not paying attention and a death occurs, typically, that is negligent homicide. It's not intentional homicide. It's not malice murder. Of course, his father did not mean for his son to drown.

Of course he didn't. The fact is he was responsible. and he was negligent based on his own statement. Explain to me why we're pretending dads aren't responsible. They're just good old guys and, hey, that was just a mistake. When moms get tarred and feather and go straight to hell. You know, Nancy, you are so right. If this was a mother who did this, she would go straight to hell.

But the fact that it's a father, you know, I, This is not a distraction, Nancy. Let's be clear. This is a compulsion. It's a preoccupation. I want to know if this guy has a history of gambling. I want to know why he wasn't holding his son in mind. When we drive, we hold other people on the road in mind, right?

When Alec Baldwin picked up that gun, he should have held Hutchinson in mind. This dad, even if he was unable to multitask, he should. should have known going into it that he was unable to and just, you know, sell the TV. Don't even have it in the house. You know, Nancy, I want to know what was going on in that particular game because he may have been engaging in what we call the near-miss effect. And that is that if the object on which you placed your bet narrowly avoids winning, then you believe that there's a greater and greater chance that they are going to win.

the attorney said that he had placed the bet 60 to 90 minutes before that tells me that there's a great likelihood that he was very zoned in on that game this is a syndrome and this is why he shouldn't have even turned on that tv at all the kaiser family pool has a net called catch a kid that is usually placed over the pool but since the family had been swimming recently they didn't put it back gone. Brady Kaiser tells DCS, Trigg has had swim lessons, knows how to kick his feet and swing his arms, but he's not proficient. He cannot swim. Once again, Kaiser tells DCS that Trigg was only outside alone for three minutes, adding, I was at home alone, I had both kids, and so I knew I needed to obviously be tending on both of them. So Trigg wasn't ever out of my sight for long,

but I mean, he suddenly, abruptly ends the sentence. A three-year-old tot boy is dead, the family pool, the family home of an internet star influencer. Why are there no charges? As of right now, dad is presumed innocent. So, woo, the police say, here you go, district attorney, here's all the evidence. We recommend this charge, a negligent death charge, but no charges? Is it because she's famous? She's TikTok famous?

I guarantee you. if a mom had done this, she would be on the hot seat right now. She would have her rear-end barbecued, but not for that. Now, we're getting new information. Listen. In his first interview, he said he was sitting in the chairs that look out toward the backyard, but surveillance video proves he wasn't. Challenged with this information, Kaiser admits he was sitting on the couch inside the house watching the NBA playoffs game four of the Knicks. Investigators tell Kaiser, they know he bet money on the game. On a sports betting app, a little more than an hour before he lets Strig go outside alone. He bets $25 Celtics star Jason Tatum will score more than

40 points in the NBA playoff game against the Knicks. He won. The wage you're paying $102.50. Okay, this is changing things. Hold on. Did the district attorney miss this fact? Was this one of the facts that have been redacted from the police statement. Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. So wait, now I'm hearing he put the bet as Josh Coles Rood correctly points out

90 minutes, 60 minutes before the drowning. But here, he's telling police I was watching the Knicks game. That's not feeding the baby. Exactly. He has backed off his original statement. Once they tell him, hey we got the surveillance video it's your surveillance video man and the interesting part of all of this

nancy is he realized then they know he wasn't doing what he claimed and they're able to peel the onion a little bit i'm not kidding you when i tell you that kaiser actually asked police what happened to trig in the backyard he didn't know he wasn't watching and that's when they said, he was alone for 10 minutes, you never checked on him. Listen. Realizing his statement has been proven false by his own surveillance video, Brady Kaiser asks the detective what happened when Trigg went outside. He is told it is clear that for 10 minutes, he didn't look outside to check on his three-year-old.

Trig was only outside for two minutes before falling into the pool. Brady Kaiser is not watching his son. He is watching a basketball game. Okay, Josh Colesrude, you're the veteran defense attorney. The facts are changing. he's not inside feeding the baby. He's inside watching the game. And you were so happy when you told me he placed the bed an hour before the drowning.

He was not betting during the game. He's watching the game to see if he wins the bet. You know, when anybody goes through trauma, Nancy, I know you know this as a former veteran prosecutor, that, you know, stories are inconsistent. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person is trying to hide something. thing. In fact, you know, what do liars do? You know, their stories are rehearsed. They're neat. They're matching. They're airtight. But when people are going through real trauma, their stories are messy. They're rough around the edges. Those edges don't make it less true. They make it real.

And yes, the TV was on to the Knicks game. But we also know that he was feeding and nursing his five-week-old son as well. And, you know, he was... I don't know that anymore. He said he was watching the basketball game. I don't know that anymore. That's what we were told at the beginning. And are you somehow saying that it's true?

It's not true. I don't care why. It's not true. It's not true what he said to police at the beginning. It's just not true. I'm not asking for a motive of why. it's not true. He said, and this is on the scene, he is watching a basketball game. He said that at the scene. Well, I think that the statements that people make right after a traumatic event

occur usually are the most true. So think, for example, like a 911 phone call in a domestic violence situation where, you know, a husband had just beat his wife. And she calls, she's frantic, and she says exactly what she remembers. And then, you know, a week later, she recants because she realizes that her comments have consequences against her loved one. And she recants or changes her statements. Here, you have Brady Kaiser, who's represented by an attorney who allows Brady to have not one, but two subsequent interviews, one with DCS and the other, a second interview with the police

department, which is unheard of in a criminal case. I have to ask you, are those the actions of a criminal who knows he's guilty? Or is it from a tragic event, from a father who just went through something horrible? You know what? Do not even start with me. Don't. And while this dad talked to police, he changed his story. Okay?

Was it because he was traumatized? I don't know that. I don't know why. I just know that the facts changed after he saw the surveillance video. That's what I know. I'm not saying he's a bad person. This is not a Miss Sweet Potato Contest, Miss Congeniality. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that very simply he was in charge of watching the baby. He did not watch the baby. The baby drowned on his watch. That is negligence. That is a negligent homicide, period. And you're very convincing. but I'm not buying it. I want to go back to him

not gambling during the game but watching the game. Dave Mack, tell me that again, at the time of the drowning. At the time of the drowning, he's watching the game and actually he had placed the bet before, but now he was watching to see

if he was going to win, if Jason Tatum was going to score more than 40 points. He was into that game, Nancy. Dr. Kendall Crowns is joining us again, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, of a hit new podcast,

Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Crowns, what happens? What does a person go through when they drowned? So what happens is eventually, if you're holding your breath, eventually you're,

you stop getting oxygen to your brain and your brain makes you inhale. And when you're forced to inhale and you're in the water, you then suck in all this water. You begin gagging and choking and vomiting back up the water and then inhaling the,

vomitists in the water again. And you go through this cycle for several minutes of throwing up, gagging, until you finally succumb to the lack of oxygen to your brain and eventually pass out. And then you lay there in a coma, your body's still in the death throes of not getting any oxygen, continuing the cycle of choking and gagging and throwing up until you finally die after about three minutes. As of tonight, no charges have been filed. And my question is, Why? When a child is left in a hot car unsupervised and dies, charges are filed. When moms let the child drown, charges are filed. This is not a witch hunt. I'm not saying dad is a bad person. I'm saying this is a negligent homicide. And for some reason, the district attorney's office has chosen not to act. Even though, and let me ask you this, G.G. McKelvey, isn't it true? that the local PD sent over a big fat file supporting homicide charges and the DA said, that's correct. I mean, they recommended those charges due to their investigation and for

whatever reason, the Maricopa County District Attorney said we are not going to file charges. And like you said, hot car deaths, we see that all the time. The parents are charged. They're put on trial. I just don't understand. Like you say, it's not like he's a bad dad, but his negligence led to this little boy drowning. And Nancy, one thing in the seven minutes, he was in that water for two minutes. He was trying to swim. And I guess his little body just gave out.

But for me, I'm baffled as to why there were no charges filed. Dr. Bethany, is it because his wife is an internet star, an influencer with a big following? It's because she's pretty. And some people believe that the dad is like the All-American great guy dad. and he's handsome and young. He also is an internet star because of his wife. They're like, Mr. and Mrs. Internet,

they got crowned the king and queen of the prom. Is that why they're not any charges? Because if that's why, then this is completely bass backwards. Why do the minority moms end up under the jail when their baby dies? But these guys don't. Why? Why is that?

You know, Nancy, the rich and famous get given, are they given special treatment? And you know, Nancy, when we get into a car, we make a series of decisions. We make sure the tires are inflated. We make sure we put our seatbelts on. We make sure the car works. There are a series of decisions we make to make sure that we are safe on the road for ourselves and others. When this mom left the house, the child's safety net was not on the pool. That was a very bad decision.

The dad, knowing that he would be preoccupied with a game, placed a bet and kept watching. We are not talking about nine minutes here. That's just when the drowning occurred. Guys, other people in similar circumstances are charged. And again, I'm not saying that as a bad, evil person. Even good people commit crimes. But again, there is not a two-tier justice system for the good people and the bad people, for the populars and the unpopulars.

No, that's not how the system is to work. Does the name Jessica Weaver ring a bell? Because I will never forget it. There's numerous witnesses that have come forward who have given their account that they were there at the park. they were watching. They saw her not paying attention to her child and that the child ended up drowning. Jessica Weaver indicted in the death of her three-year-old son. The indictment states, Weaver failed to provide care for her son, did not give her toddler a life vest, did not get in the water with her son. She did not follow park rules. She did not keep her son in her sight and allowed Anthony in the water soon after eating. That's my friends at K Fox 14, and Mommy was a drunker high.

She was taking selfies at the time. Her tot died in the water, and she was charged. And then, of course, there is Erica Baez. Baez allegedly asked the hotel staff to open this indoor pool so Caitlin could swim. The workers warned her there was no lifeguard on duty. Mom says, I'll watcher. Meanwhile, Erica Baez has a five-month-old son that she left alone in the hotel. room. So five-month-old boy, left alone in the hotel room, seven-year-old girl, left alone at the

pool. While mom goes to the bar, Baez went to check on the little girl, he found her, quote, floating lifeless in the pool. She was charged. Was she a bad person? No. Was she a bad mom? Yes. The baby's dead on her watch. Oh, let me think. Okay, Catherine Bodim. Catherine Bodom is giving her children a bath in an upstairs bathroom while she shops online for shoes downstairs. 11-month-old Cecilia and her two-year-old brother are left alone for at least 20 minutes. And when their mother finally decides to check on them, the bathtub is overflowing and Cecilia is submerged in the water, having drowned in the tub while mom was shopping. Bowden pleads guilty to second-degree manslaughter. So Josh Colesrued, veteran defense attorney, was that just a tragic?

accident too. Mommy shopping for shoes online while her daughter, her baby dies in the bathtub. So those are all very interesting examples. And it shows why you have to be very discerning as a prosecutor because every case should be judged on the details of that case alone. So in those cases, the first two that you mentioned happened out in the public. And the third one, the mother knew that the baby was actually in the water, in the bathtub. Here, the facts are completely different where you have a father who had no idea that his son had even entered the pool. And not only that, but he's in a backyard, a place in a hundred and four.

He said he saw his son outside by the pool. Duh, two and two equals four. He sees his son by the pool by his own words and he watches the basketball game. Well, you don't automatically think when your son is out in the backyard that that's the danger zone. Because you've seen the son out there a hundred times before. You've seen him play with his toys. You've seen him play with the dog. You think everything is going to be okay because that's human.

And you can't just start criminalizing every tragedy that happens because it really disincentivizes people from asking for help, from calling the police. If they think they're going to be scrutinized by every single detail. Calls Rood. Didn't the family own a kid catcher net that they usually put over the pool? Isn't that true? Exactly. They were not negligent parents.

So why would they have a kid catcher net? Why do you believe they bought a kid catcher's net? Because they were responsible parents and responsible parents by. Because they know children drown in pools. So he also knew the kid catcher's net. was not on the pool and knew his son was outside. He knew the danger. This one time. This one time. And that's why. So what? That's why one time. That's what makes it so tragic. That means nothing to how do I know it's the first time? I don't know it's the first time this child has been alone in the

backyard. I don't know that. Nor do you. And plus it doesn't matter. It only takes one time, one time, one bullet, one drunk driving. There is no difference in him inside. watching the next game while his baby's out by the pool, and he knows it, and mommy shopping for shoes online downstairs while the baby's upstairs in the pool. And there's more. Listen. While giving her 13-month-old son a bath, Shannon Johnson becomes distracted playing Cafe World on Facebook. As she's playing, she's checking on friends' status updates. And while sharing a video, she realizes she hasn't heard her little boy splashing for three minutes.

And when she goes to check on him, he's laying in the tub sideways with his face submerged in the water. The little boy dies approximately eight hours after being placed in the tub. An autopsy shows the baby died of anoxic, low oxygen, brain injury, cardiac arrest, and drowning. Johnson is charged with child abuse resulting in death. This is anecdotal, not based on statistics, but I noticed when I was prosecuting in inner city Atlanta, that when the victim is a baby or a child, the case gets pled down. It's going to be involuntary manslaughter or even. less. Because the baby, the child, doesn't have a voice yet. And no one is advocating for

the baby. Nobody. Back to J. Arthur joining us, expert in drowning prevention over 36 years. What is the caretaker, in this case the father's duty to the top? As a parent, you always have responsibility to watch your kids run any kind of body of water. So I think whether it's the dad in this case or any parent, they need to make sure that the child stays out of harm's way, making sure that that catch a kid net was in place should have been a priority in that situation so that you alleviate that situation of happening. We always talk about layers protection as a drowning prevention advocate. So everything you can put in place between a child and that pool is very important. A pool net, extra locks on the doors, alarms, those kind of things are important. So what we see a lot of times in the drowning world, at least that I've been in for the last 36 years,

is that there's a lot of ignorance on the parents' part, not knowing what they need to put in. place. They don't know the basic concepts of law safety, especially the age group of parents, especially new parents, that have kids between one and four years old because that is the most common age of kids drowning in the community. Josh Coles Rood joining us, veteran defense attorney in this jurisdiction. Josh, do you think I just fell off the turnip truck? because when I gave you the other examples where the moms were charged while the kids being neglectful while the kids are drowned, you try to tell me how those cases were different from the current case.

And you actually said, well, some of those occurred in public. And this was in the home. A, that doesn't matter. Because no matter where you are, you're in charge of your child. Also, you said, one's public, one's not. You tried to make some other differentiation that really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if mommy is playing Cafe World or Farmville or shopping for shoes or daddy's watching a basketball game while his child is unattended by the water. Those are the facts.

There's really no difference in these cases other than the moms got prosecuted. So in Arizona, in order to be found guilty of child abuse, the defendant has to be found guilty of a gross deviation from what a reasonable person would do. And the reasonable person test is important because a reasonable parent can have alarms fail. A reasonable parent can have a pool net off for cleaning or swimming. A reasonable parent can check the backyard, see their child. playing safely and trust it'll be safe in you know a few minutes later that's not criminal that's the real life of every parent you're talking about child abuse i'm going not under the theory of child abuse in arizona i'm going under the arizona criminal code on child neglect as a

felony this would be i think actually a much less severe case i think it is an unintentional homicide, but child neglect in Arizona is a felony, specifically when there is a substantial risk of death or injury. That's it. And if a felony child neglect occurred and a death occurred during the commission of that neglect, that is a felony murder. So, you know, this case obviously is emotionally charged. And when you see that it is emotionally charged, you need to take a step back and really ask yourself, are we trying to send a message? Because if that's the point that we're going to punish you because we need to send a message, then really no parent is safe from prosecution when lightning strikes. And let me tell you, Nancy, when the law stops

being about the fact. Lightning strikes. Nobody said anything about an act of God. Look, you're a great lawyer and I hear you, but you just can't throw out lightning. An act of God is negligence and no parent is safe. All parents are safe if their child doesn't die while they're neglecting them. Well, when tragedy strikes, it doesn't knock at the door. It's silent, just like when drowning in a pool. Well, if you think all of this was just karma or a tragic accident, then you know what? But the local police department disagrees with you because they sent a big, fat file over to the DA's office.

And for some reason, the homecoming king and queen are not being charged. I'd like to point out, Mommy was not home. Daddy was home. It's not on her. It's on him. And as of tonight, again, the king and queen of the prom have not faced any charges, specifically the king. Do I care? Do I care if he's popular? Good looking, white, wealthy, internet famous? No, I do not. You know what I care about? I care about that baby trig. That's what I care about. And I care about what Lady Justice intended. Lady Justice also intends that you are not to be judged guilty, that you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. As of

tonight, he has not been charged and he is innocent. So I suggest to the elected prosecutor to review the file that was meticulously put together and sent to you, and that you, like Lady Justice, put a blindfold on, and judge this case for the sake of this child and every other child. And now, we remember an American hero, Officer Deerl Islam, NYPD, which is 36, shot and killed at an office tower in Manhattan providing security, leaves behind his wife who is pregnant and two little children, American hero, Officer Dieteril Islam. Nancy Grace, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.