Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TOT MOM CASEY ANTHONY CALLS 911 OVER "BAR DRINK" BUT NOT WHEN DAUGHTER "MISSING"

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

Casey Anthony back in the news after calling 911 to report that a woman had thrown a drink on her at a Florida bar. The incident allegedly stemmed from the fact that the woman and Anthony had dated the same man, a police sergeant. The reported incident involving Anthony and patron Thelma Moya occurred on May 23 at O’Shea’s Irish Pub in West Palm Beach. Anthony told responding officers that she and Moya got into an argument and that she wanted to file a report as Moya verbally and physically assaulted her. She alleged that Moya threw a drink at her because Allison was texting her.  Anthony said in the 911 call that she wanted the altercation documented as she planned to get a restraining order against Moya. However, she later claimed she changed her mind. Joining Nancy Grace today: John W. Dill, Esquire - Personal Injury Lawyer, Winter Park, Florida, Author: "The Method: Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials", www.JohnWDill.com, Twitter/IG @JohnWDillESQ, Represented Zenaida Gonzalez in Defamation Suit against Casey Anthony Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference  Chris Byers - Former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner, www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com  Steve Helling - Senior Writer, PEOPLE.com, stevehelling.com, Twitter: @stevehelling, Author: "Outrage: The Casey Anthony Story"  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Taught mom Casey Anthony. Why won't she go away? Or do something productive with her life? Like raise money for the poor, go work at a homeless shelter, do something other than get into fights at bars. Now listen, unless it's got crime scene tape around it, I'm not concerned. But it's just striking to me that when her daughter, two-year-old Kelly, was found wrapped in a blanket with duct tape all around her mouth and nose on her skull, which was by then skeletonized, wrapped in a blanket and in a trash bag a few houses down from the Anthony home in a swampy area behind a school, top mom, Casey Anthony, insisted at trial that her daughter had actually drowned and that for some reason, instead of calling 911, they decided to bag her body and throw

it in a swamp. That said, why is it so easy for her to call 911 and a fight between barflies? A bar fight! Barfly taught mom Casey Anthony gets a drink thrown on her, and then she thinks to call 911. You know what? Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take a listen to this. Dugan! 911, what is the address of your emergency?

Nine Emergency. Can you have West Palm come over for an incident report? Okay, what is the address? It's O'Shea's. It's right next to the department. It's in the 500 block. Okay, 531 Clematis Street. What's the incident? It's an assault. It's a thrown drink. It's an assault. It's a thrown drink. It's an assault.

It's a thrown drink. I just paused there because I thought certainly there had to be more to a 911 call. Calling 911 because you got wet at a bar because you had a hair fight with another woman over some guy you both dated. But when your daughter, according to you, drowned in the pool, which of course is not what happened, you didn't call 911? You know what? Let's listen to a little bit more of this 911 call that has just emerged. Are they still there?

No, it was a repeated incident. No, I'm still here. Yeah, it was a repeated incident. No, I'm still here. Yeah, it was a repeated incident. It was harassment on top of the repeated drink. They were throwing drinks. And they threw a drink at you? Yeah. Thank you.

I'm fine. No, it was a repeated incident. It was a verbal assault outside and they were throwing drinks inside. Okay, and where is the subject that threw the drink? I would just like to make an official report. Yeah, no, I would just like to make an official report. Make an official report. With me, an all would just like to make an official report. Make an official report. With me, an all-star panel to make sense

of it all. First of all, John W. Deal, personal injury lawyer joining me out of that jurisdiction, Florida, author of The Method, Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials at johnwdeal.com and he actually represented Zenaida Gonzalez. Does that name ring a bell? It does

to me because in one of Tottenham, Casey Anthony's other stories, she told police as to why she waited over a month to report her baby missing was because the nanny had taken the baby and that nanny was Zenaida Gonzalez. Well, there is a real Zenaida Gonzalez, not the one she made up in her head, who suffered a great deal after being named the kidnapper of little Kelly, which was of course a lie. He knows this case inside and out. And with me, we're now New York psychologist who has covered the case from the very beginning, along with me, Karen Stark, joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. Wow, I wish you had been on that witness stand, Dr. Gallagher. You can find him at

pathcaremed.com. Also, University of Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine, renowned lecturer, Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, 25 years on the force now, private investigator and polygrapher at chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com. But first, to Steve Hellen, senior writer with people.com. Wow, I got to say, we sure have a lot of memories from the Tottenham Casey Anthony trial, Steve Hellen. And he is the author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony story. But wait a minute, Steve Hellen. First, there's more.

Take a listen to this. Okay, where is the person that threw the drink? She's already left the premises okay but i have her information her date of birth her phone number okay just so if it happens again so i can file a restraining order it has happened repeatedly okay what is your name please and a good date of birth and your phone number all right i have the call for service we're going to get someone out there as soon as possible okay

thank you so much i appreciate it no problem bye-bye to chris byers former police chief John's Creek. Chief, when you are dealing with murders, rapes, child molestations, arsons, aggravated assault, armed robberies, and you get a call from a bar that somebody got a drink poured on them? Yeah, that's unfortunately

calls like that happen way too often and take the focus of law enforcement away from actual enforcement of the law and investigating actual crimes to deal with petty stuff like this and people that can't solve their own problems. And especially when you put this in the perspective of who this is, it really is just an annoyance. Now to Steve Helling, senior writer with People.com and author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony story. Steve Helling, she talks like she's a cop. She talks about an incident report. She rattles off DOB and phone number, a lot of cop jargon when she calls police. Now, she claims that she and her, quote, arch nemesis had dated

the same guy, coincidentally, in law enforcement. I don't know what he was thinking. But what happened, Steve Helling? Tell me the whole thing. And this is with the backdrop of her not calling 911 when she claimed her daughter drowned in the pool. Instead of calling 911, they went, oh, let's just put her in a trash bag and throw her in the swamp instead of calling 9-1-1 they went oh let's just put her in a trash bag and throw her in the swamp that'll take care of that and then when her daughter's missing over a month it's her mother that calls 9-1-1 she still doesn't call 9-1-1 but her shirt gets wet and she calls 9-1-1 yes i mean the ridiculous thing about this is it was really a very minor incident that she and this woman get into this bar room argument. It needs to be noted that the other woman claims that Casey threw a drink at her first.

Oh, my goodness. Now we're going to have a credibility contest. Wow. Who should I believe? And let me make it clear, whoever the other woman is, I don't know if that woman is a bar fly or not, but I do know the top mom Casey Anthony is, and I'm not judging. I don't care if she is or is not a bar fly, but every time I hear about her, she's wearing a pair of hot pants at a bar. Every time doing shots. Every time I hear about her, why isn't she out working at a homeless shelter or a soup line because that's not who casey is casey um has returned to her life the same way that she was you know when she was doing hot body contests in 2008 she's in the same world now as

she was then uh nothing has changed with casey and you you know, we're seeing that her getting this. You're bringing back a very bad memory of her in a mini dress with a pair of go-go boots on a stripper pole at a hot body contest. You just brought that back to me. Thanks, Steve Helling, for conjuring that image up in my mind. So you're saying that this is the life she wanted and that's why Kaylee is dead? That's what it seems like. That's the life she went back to.

I mean, most of us, if we had suffered a trauma in our life, like losing a child, would reassess our lives and think, okay, this isn't the life I want to live. She reassessed and said, that's the life I want. How do I get back to it?

That's what happened there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about top mom Casey Anthony back in the news again, and it's not for doing something good. It's for yet another bar incident. You were just hearing her 911 call. An officer takes time to go to the bar when she's called because her shirt is wet. And now we're hearing the body cam video and footage. We're hearing what we can also see. Take a listen to this.

For the first time, we're seeing body cam footage of cops responding to Casey Anthony's 911 call. I'm still wet. I got a drink thrown at me. This girl has been harassing me for a while. The woman in the fedora is Casey Anthony, the notorious mom who was acquitted 10 years ago for the murder of her daughter Kaylee. We the jury find the defendant not guilty. Now she's back in the news, and in a familiar setting, a bar. She's telling a cop that the altercation at the bar in Florida was over a guy.

And why did she throw a drink at you? Like what happened? I dated the same person for a couple years. Malcolm Allison, who was with your department, one of your sergeants. That's right. The guy Casey says they were arguing over is a police sergeant in West Palm Beach. Whether they're together or not together, she got upset that he had texted me. I let her know that he had, and she came inside and threw a drink at me. Do you know her name? Her name is Thelma Moya. Okay. So she immediately rats out the other woman who I can tell you so far, isn't this right? Jackie's managed to stay quiet and does not want to get dragged into more controversy with top mom

Casey Anthony. You know what? Congratulations, Thelma Moya. Take a listen to more of that body cam video. Are you with him? No. He was one of the witnesses. Eli. All of these people were witnesses, unfortunately. Go get him, Tiger. Let's do it. Let's do it, baby.

I try not to make a big deal of things, but she's been a problem in my life for three years. How do you cry? I've changed her phone number. She's been near me. She has changed my phone number. Over and over she says, I'm still wet. I'm still wet. You know, I want to go to a special guest joining us who actually handled a case for the, I guess I should say infamous or famous, depending on what your point of view is, Zenaida Gonzalez, who taught mom Casey Anthony blamed for Keely's disappearance, they didn't even know each other. She, top mom Casey Anthony, got Ms. Gonzalez's name, we think, off an apartment visitation list where she had visited looking at apartments according to her. Or just pulled it out of the air. But whatever the reason top mom Casey Anthony named Zenaida Gonzalez as the real perpetrator, it ruined Ms. Gonzalez's life, ruined it. To John W. Deal, PI lawyer joining us out of Florida, author of The Method, Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials. John W.

Deal, thank you for being with us. I mean, do you believe anything that comes out of top mom Casey Anthony's mouth? No, she has an amazing skill to take facts, you know, twist them to her advantage. Certainly we think that's what happened with Zenaida. It's sort of like in that movie, Usual Suspects, when the person was just making up things from words he saw.

We think that's what happened. But unfortunately, she's not above involving police because obviously the police interviewed my client, you know, drug her through the mud as a suspect in a kidnapping when she knew full well that wasn't the case. So it's it's not out of the ordinary. I don't think there's anything that Ms. Anthony will say or do that surprised me at this point. I'm really surprised back to you, Steve Helling, that a law enforcement officer is dating

tot mom Casey Anthony? I mean, that was to me the craziest part of the thing. That's the craziest part to you? The craziest part of this is that a cop is dating her? Because see, I think the craziest part is that she murdered her daughter and she got acquitted. To me, that's the craziest part to you? The craziest part of this is that a cop is dating her? Because, see, I think the craziest part is that she murdered her daughter and she got acquitted. To me, that's the craziest part.

I'm talking about the craziest part of the latest development. I mean, you and I sat through two months worth of crazy in that trial. But, you know, after all of that I've wondered why would anybody date Casey Anthony? Who wants that type of baggage? But if you're a cop, you certainly know that this is somebody who's on the wrong side of the law. And why would you want to date her? I just don't understand it. Well, I have a couple of reasons. I think he may be dating her, but I don't think Fox Nation or Sirius XM 111 would like me to blurt that out on the air.

There are still a few FCC censorships. Let's go to cut 23. This is part of Top Mom Casey Anthony's interrogation where the investigator, Detective Uri Malich, is like, I'm so tired of the lies. Please stop. Listen. And I can tell you, just for a certainty that everything you've told me so far has been a lie.

I can tell you that with a certainty, and let me explain why. Since I left you this morning, I've gone to every address that you've told me. I've looked up every name. I've talked to every person that you want me to talk to or try to. I've reached out. I've talked to your ex-boyfriend. I've talked to Amy. I've talked to Tony. I came over here. I've already talked to all the employees.

I found out all these names you're giving me are people that either never worked here or have been fired here for a long time ago. So where we are right now is in a position that doesn't look very good for you. We can sit here and go back and forth all day long about, I don't, I do, I don't, I do. It's pretty obvious that with everything that you've told us, nothing has been the truth. You know where she is. Can you imagine sitting in that interrogation room going round and round? Karen Stark, what is that ability to just stick with your story and look at a detective in the eye when they keep saying, well, we call this person and that person and we check this employee, employer and that employee. Everything you've said is a lie. Everything.

And she's like, no, it's not. It's almost like one of those Saturday Night Live skits when there's the liar and they look right at you and say, no, it's not. It's true. And they have the people saying, no, she doesn't work here. No, she hasn't been staying here. No, that's not what happened. What is that called? There's got to be something in your DSM manual. That's a pathological liar. And I do remember using that very analogy, Nancy, as a liar on Saturday Night Live.

Because she's so classic. When she says something and then it's proved that it's a lie she immediately goes to the next slide and the next slide and then the next slide and absolutely her face is impassive you can't imagine that she's telling a lie she looks so authentic she's classic and she's a narcissist so So she needs constant attention. And part of that is the ability to tell those lies. Well, I guarantee you that's why she did not take the stand. Because finally, she would be on cross-examination and a jury would see exactly what you're talking about, Karen Stark.

Yes, they would. Remember, we talked about that. The jury would see it, and she doesn't come across authentically. You don't see emotion. Even hearing her voice, I'm getting the chills, because that's the person that we know. Right, Nancy? She's very calm, and she knows her law, and she knows her words, and she's talking nonsense, saying nonsense.

It all boils down to what happened to two-year-old Kelly, her daughter. Let's cut to our number eight, our cut eight, Jackie. Take a listen to Carson Chambers and what we learn at trial about the condition of top mom, Anthony's baby girl, Kaylee. Casey Anthony sobbed into a tissue hearing what happened to Kaylee's remains in the woods. What we're looking at here, the top of the bones, these have actually been chewed on by animals. The gallery was filled with surprised faces, including an expecting mother, whose mouth hung wide open as autopsy photos were shown in court. There is no child that should have duct tape on its face when it dies.

There is no reason to put duct tape on the face after they die. Dr. Jan Garavaglia, also known as Dr. G Medical Examiner on her Discovery Channel show, says she classified Kaylee's death as a homicide based on red flags. The child was reported missing 31 days late, and her remains were hidden in the woods. Could a child exposed to a sufficient amount of chloroform die as a result? Absolutely. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now straight out to our esteemed medical examiner, Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida at PathCareMed.com. He is a lecturer at University of Florida Medical School of Forensic Medicine.

Dr. Gallagher, I know that you have very carefully studied what happened to little Kelly, and I'd like to get your thoughts, especially about the duct tape on the child's face. Well, that was a very difficult case. And Jan Garavaglia did a great job. And you have to use your best judgment. A medical examiner's diagnosis is an opinion. It's an opinion based on a lot of the evidence, all of the evidence, the scene, the body, and all the events leading up to that. This is a decomposed child who was in the woods with duct tape around him.

Animal predation had already begun to start. Animals had found the body and were chewing on the bones and scavenging the remains. This is just an awful case. And I mean, I don't know that I can add anything that hasn't already been in the news, but we still use this case as a great teaching point, as well as the interview with Kaylee Anthony. And this is a classic teaching point within. So if any good can come from this, it's that now students who are coming into the field are educated more carefully about this type of finding and this type of person to deal with.

The theory that was espoused at trial that Kelly had drowned in a pool completely contradicts the medical findings that she was found with her skull covered in duct tape. To you, Steve Helling, you know that as well as anyone. It completely contradicts that theory. I mean, Casey Anthony is just full of contradictions. She has been since 2008, and nothing surprises me with all of her contradictions. You know, it's funny. We mentioned watching her again in action talking to police. And did you ever, were you listening to it and thinking, huh, I wonder if Thelma Moria really exists? Because she's so convincing

in everything that she says and then you find out it's a lie. Obviously, we know that Thelma exists. It's just Casey's full of contradictions, full of lies, and it's exhausting. It is exhausting. Guys, we're talking about the most recent incident with top mom Casey Anthony

who has told investigators she, quote, sleeps really well at night, doesn't have any concerns about the murder of her daughter Kelly. But in the most recent event with top mom Casey Anthony, she's back in a bar in a pair of hot pants. Take a listen to to our cut 21 this is the body cam sound that goes with the body cam video of taught mom at ashay's bar what's your phone number so you just need an incident yeah if you can send that to me i can send this to you um yeah no i haven't saved for stuff like this. Why don't you file a restraining order? I have announced a file of restraining order. I had to have actual arrest.

Her texting was not enough. Her showing up where I was was not enough. This is enough. In front of witnesses is enough. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what you're doing. It's hard to hear that because top mom Casey Anthony is in a packed bar.

But what I'm hearing is that she won't file a restraining order. So to you, former police chief Johns Creek, Chief Chris Byers, if you're worried about a person, you really are being harassed. Wouldn't you file a restraining order? Yeah, absolutely. That's the path to get that solved. You go file the temporary protective order and get the hearing. And that way, if this person contacts you, follows you, anything else, it actually becomes a crime at that point. So, yeah, she needs to take matters into her hands and follow the way that the law works.

Guys, when you're hearing this 911 call from top mom Casey Anthony because her shirt's wet at a bar, it's a stark contrast to another 911 call. Take a listen to Cindy Anthony. Our cut to. 911, what's your emergency? I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff's saying I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. Okay, what is the address that you're calling from?

4937 Hope Spring Drive. We're talking about a three-year-old little girl. 4937 what? Hope Spring. H-O-P-E-S-P-R-I-N-G, Tla Rolando. My daughter finally admitted that the baby's in store. I need to find her. Your daughter admitted that the baby is where? That the babysitter took her a month ago. That my daughter's been looking for.

I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. Okay, what is the three-year-old's name? Kaylee, C-A-Y-L-E-E, Anthony. Kaylee Anthony? Yes. Okay, is she white, black, or Hispanic? She's white. How long has she been missing for? I have not seen her since the 7th of June. I played that portion of the 911 call for a reason to Dr. Tim Gallagher,

a medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. Dr. Gallagher, did you hear what Cindy Anthony said in the 911 call? The child's been missing. I haven't seen her since June 7th. My daughter's missing. I've got her. I can't find Kaylee. They quote, damn car smells like a dead body.

Well, there's nothing that smells exactly like a dead body. It has a very sickly, sweet odor. And if you smell it once, you'll remember it for the rest of your life. It's actually because of that, that a lot of decomposed bodies have been recovered. But it is one smell that you cannot mistake for anything else. There is no food that smells like that. There is no other animal that smells like a dead human. And it is a scent that will stick with you for the rest of your life. When you smell it, you know it, and it's 100% accurate. You know what, Steve Howling, hearing Dr. Gallagher speak, we're all kicking around that top mom Casey Anthony's at another bar and another pair of hot pants getting in trouble. But when I hear him talking and I, that, you know, there's that one picture of Kaylee with the big brown eyes looking at the camera. And I think about her being torn apart by animals in a swamp with duct tape wrapped around her head

and the smell of a dead body in Top Mom's car that she then abandoned. It's, you know, it really never goes away that the shock that Top Mom had everything. I mean, she'd been lying to her parents for years, I guess two years, that she worked at Universal the whole time just hanging around the house watching TV, eating their food, using their cable, talking on their phone. They totally supported her financially. They totally supported little Kelly. No questions asked.

And to do this to Kelly. You know, we often think about, you know, Casey is a sideshow. And she does all these things that we kind of laugh at because they're so ridiculous. But we can't lose sight of the fact that there is a little girl who would be 15 years old now or 16 years old. You know, she'd be a teenager and she's not with us. And, you know, her end and her death was horrific. And we always, you know, it's easy to forget that when Casey is doing her antics in a bar somewhere. Because Casey forgets it, but the rest of us need to remember her.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Karen Stark, you and I covered the case together. And then you remember, very clearly, you were at one of my baby showers. Remember? I had two. And you were at one of them. How much I wanted to have the twins. And remember, I almost lost them during the pregnancy. And I'm remembering, remember you were there watching them grow up in New York. And at this age, you know, two, three years old, their whole world is mommy.

Kelly had no idea Top Mom was not taking care of her, not supporting her. She was basically like a tick, a parasite living off her parents. And they were the ones taking care of Kelly, not Top Mom. He was taking care of Kelly because Top Mom was not able to do it. Nancy, when I think about you and the kind of mother that I can still picture you rocking the twins one at a time and I was sitting there and just in awe of that connection that you had. for her. She doesn't have it in her to connect to anyone. She's narcissistic. And of course, we know that she's capable of murder. There was never any, what about my daughter? It was always, what about me? When she was in jail talking to her parents, it was, well, what's going to happen to me? What's next? You never heard her say, you know, where's my girl? What happened to my girl?

So it's a stark comparison, as you said, between what we know, a connection between a mother and a child, a parent and a child is, and this person who is incapable of feeling and lying and missing that little girl. And in the last weeks, a top mom, Casey Anthony, juror, has come forward and said that they regret the not guilty. Really? Thanks. Day late, dollar short.

Don't even bother wasting your breath telling me now that you regret your not guilty decision. I mean, I don't even want to hear that. Just keep your pie guilty decision. I mean, I don't even want to hear that. Just keep your pie holes shut. You hear top mom Casey Anthony at a, after a boozy bar fight with some other woman calling 911 because her shirt got wet when the woman allegedly threw a drink on her. But listen to this. Our cut number one, where you hear Cindy, excuse me, it's our cut number three,

practically begging top mom to get on the phone and speak to 911. Our cut three. The first eight nine two thousand Cut 3. I understand. Can you calm down for me for just a minute? I need to know what's going

on, okay? I'm going to try and stop. Is your daughter there? Can I speak with her? Do you mind if I speak with her? Thank you. I called them two hours ago. They haven't gotten here. Can you speak finally? And there's a very good girl. She's basically grabbing top mom and getting her to the phone. Top mom won't even speak to 911 about her so-called missing daughter. You know why? Because she knows that right down the street, her daughter is in a trash bag where she threw her in a swampy area. Take a listen to more when they finally get top mom Casey Anthony on the phone. Our cut number four.

Can you tell me a little bit what's going on? My daughter's been missing for the last 31 days. And you know who has her? I know who has her. I know who has her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today now from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter

for about a moment, about a minute. Okay, did you guys call and report a vehicle stolen? Yes, my mom did. Okay, so there's been a vehicle stolen too? No, this was my vehicle. What vehicle was stolen? It's a 98 Pontiac Sunfire. Okay, I have deputies on the way to you right now for that.

But now your three-year-old daughter is missing. Kaylee Anthony. Yes. White female. Yes, white female. Three years old. Eight, nine, 2005 is her date of birth. Yes.

And you last saw her a month ago? 31 days. From 31 days. Steve Helling, People.com. Do you notice how calm she is on the phone as compared to her mother, Cindy Anthony, who can barely even speak, and everything she says is a lie. There was no phone call from Zenaida Gonzalez. There was no fake phone number. She did not speak to Kelly. Based on what the medical examiner said, Kelly was long dead, and she did not report her own car stolen because she abandoned it because it smelled

like a dead body. Why would you lie to 911 about your car being stolen and about a fake phone call? I mean, it's astonishing when you get down to it, not just how many lies there are and how she piles them on top of each other, but how calmly she says them, how definitively she says them. You know, whenever you hear Casey, there's a part of me that for a second is like, oh, wait, maybe could that be true? Because I'm so convinced that herself, I think that she's telling the truth, but it's all a lie, you know, and she didn't stop lying. Well, clearly she hasn't stopped lying to this day.

Take a listen to our Cut 22. We're back to the present day in Top Mom in a Bar Fight. Casey and Thelma Moya were reportedly friends before they ended up in an altercation over the same guy. I don't want to get him involved. He's my ex, He's her ex. That's why all this happened. The woman who allegedly threw a drink at Anthony was not charged. She says the argument was about much more than an ex-boyfriend, but she wouldn't elaborate.

This woman is willing to take down anybody to save her own skin, including her own family. Take a listen to our cut 14. This is her father, George Anthony, speaking to our friend, Dr. Phil. And if this scenario that Casey had told to her defense about Kaylee drowning, why go through all this elaborate stuff to tape her up, to put her in a laundry bag, to put her in a trash bag and bury her in the woods? I can't comprehend a human doing that, especially a daughter, doing that to my granddaughter.

I can't... I can't visualize that. I don't want to my granddaughter. I can't... I can't visualize that. I don't want to visualize that. You can hear the heartbreak in his voice and his wife Cindy's, who I believe were portrayed very badly in the press. I met with them, and I believe that they're very good people

that have really been to hell and back. Now, what did top mom Casey Anthony have to say? Listen to our cut six. This is NBC's program, Listen. Kaylee went missing in June 2008, but had been missing for a month before her grandmother contacted police. the family's home. The family was found dead in the woods near the family's home. The family was found dead in June 2008, but had been missing for a month before her grandmother

contacted police. Casey Anthony was eventually charged in her disappearance. Police later finding Kaylee's remains in a wooded area near the family's home. Anthony says the last time she saw Kaylee, she believed that she was alive and

that she was going to be okay. Give me the situation when things went wrong when did things go wrong all of a sudden it's like where's kaylee like is that how it went no what i remember is being in bed my mom coming in before she left her work and saying goodbye to us and then waking up several hours later. Later in the morning. Later in the morning. Hour, two hours later, not knowing where she was. Don't you wish you know what happened? Absolutely.

I mean, Steve Helling, now the story is she went to sleep and woke up and Kelly was missing. I mean, the story has changed so many times. Who can even keep track at this point, Nancy? What we do know and what everybody knows is that Kaylee, you know, is dead. She died and her mother should have known what happened and her mother should have been there to protect her and clearly was not. At this point, I don't even, it's not that I don't care what happened. It's that it almost doesn't matter what happened. We know that Casey did something wrong and it resulted in Kaylee's death. And no amount of backpacking and lying is going to change that

fact. We now know that top mom, Casey Anthony, is still living in South Florida. She's gotten a new tattoo to cover up her old tattoo that said, The Beautiful Life, Bella Vita. She got that tattoo just two weeks after she says her daughter went missing. You know, sometimes there is no justice. Nancy Grace Crum, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.