Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TOT Mom Casey Anthony 'Finds Love;' Married Man Convinced She’s Innocent

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Caylee Anthony had been missing for five months before her small body was found near the Anthony home, wrapped in a blanket and placed inside a garbage bag, discarded in a wooded area. Her mother, Casey Anthony, was then charged with first-degree murder. Since being acquitted by a jury, Anthony has made headlines several times, most recently for dating a married man and allegedly breaking up a 22-year marriage. She met her latest partner, Tyson Ray Rhodes, an engineer for an aerospace company, at a South Florida gym where they both worked out. Rhodes and his wife of 22 years moved from South Florida to Tennessee earlier this year, and Anthony reportedly followed. The pair have been seen together at an upscale Tennessee apartment complex, getting into Rhodes' truck, both dressed in workout clothes. One of Anthony's friends told the New York Post that Anthony doesn’t care if he’s married, saying, “All she knows is that he makes her feel good, and she likes that.” Rhodes is reportedly planning to file for divorce.  Joining Nancy Grace today:  Rob Dick - Casey Anthony's Former Bodyguard, Bounty Hunter, and Private Investigator Gerardo Bloise - Former forensic Investigator in Casey Anthony case, President of G&J Forensics, and Author: "CSI The Casey Anthony Child Murder Case"  Ray Guidice - Atlanta Defense Attorney Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); X: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in “Paris in Love” on Peacock; BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Steve Helling -Senior National News Reporter for NY Post, Author: "Outrage!: The Casey Anthony Story," and Author: "Tiger: The Real Story;" X: @SteveHelling  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Taught mom, Casey Anthony, did you really think she was going away? No way. Taught mom, Casey Anthony, finds love with a married man. Blowing up here's 20 year marriage. And guess what? He apparently is convinced she's innocent. Just like the jury in Florida. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The infamous mother charged and acquitted in her two-year-old daughter's death. Is she stirring up trouble again?

Well, that's an easy answer. Yes, she's stirring up trouble. I wonder what this guy's wife has to say about it. A married man, 20 years in, two boys, but it didn't all start here. It didn't all start with her convincing another person she's innocent, finding somebody else to foot the bill for her lifestyle. This is where it started. Listen. C-A-Y-L-E-E, Anthony. Kaylee Anthony? Yes. Okay, is she white, black, or Hispanic? She's white. How long has she been missing for?

I have not seen her since the 7th of June. What is her date of birth? 8, 9, 2000, oh God, she's three, she's 2005. So it's Keeley, isn't it? Keeley, is that it? I still hate to hear that part of the 911 call where the grandmother, Keeley's grandmother, breaks down and screams, George, Kelly's missing. Okay, so what's top mom Casey Anthony doing during all this?

Listen. Casey just didn't talk to her a month ago. She's a missing child, mom. Okay, I understand. Can you calm down for me for just a minute? I need to know what's going on, okay? I'm going to try and talk. My roots are already in the weekend.

And it goes on. It goes on. Now, you hear the grandmother, that's Cindy Anthony, and she and her husband, George, who are very fine people, I'd like to report. I've met them and spoken to them in depth and the world saw them at their very worst. I wonder how they're responding to their daughter. She trashed her dad like crazy because he had an affair. Now she's shacked up with a married man, 20 years in a marriage. That's gone. That said, back to where this started, you heard Cindy Anthony in hysterics. But listen, when top mom Casey Anthony gets on the 911.

Is your daughter there? I'm on the phone with them. Is your daughter there? Yes. Can I speak with her? Do you mind if I speak with her? Thank you. I called them two hours ago. They haven't gotten here. And she finally admitted to me that He took her a month ago.

Ma'am. Ma'am. Can you stand and share with the partner? They want to talk to you. I don't have a good question. I don't have a good question. Hello? Hello? Yes. Hi. Can you tell me what's going on a little bit?

I'm sorry? Can you tell me a little bit what's going on? My daughter's been missing for the last 31 days. And you know who has her? I know who has her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today. Now from a number that is no longer in service.

I did get to speak to my daughter for about a minute. Okay, did you guys call and report a vehicle stolen? Yes, my a minute. Okay, did you guys call and report a vehicle stolen? Um, yes, my mom did. Got to speak to my daughter for about a minute. What, did she have a seance? Because Kelly, baby Kelly, is dead. Do you hear Tot Mom lying through her teeth? Uh, yeah, um, I just got to speak to my daughter for about a minute.

And now this guy blows up a 20-year marriage for what? A piece of that? Okay, join me and All-Star panel to make sense of what we are hearing. It's just, you know, I wonder what the jury's thinking right now, Steve Helling. Steve Helling joining me, senior national news reporter at New York Post, author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony story, author of Tiger, the real story. It goes on and on and on. But Steve Helling, it's, I wonder what the jury's thinking right now, because this is not just a fling with a married man. It's the same M.O, modus operandi, method of

operation. You lie, lie, lie, lie, lie to another person. I mean, analyze it, Helen. First, she lied to her parents that she had a job while she's sitting on the sofa eating chips all day while they pay for everything for Kelly. She lies about the father of Kelly. People still don't know who the father is. She lies to her employers and coworkers. She lies to her friends. She lies to her live-in. She's living with him and a bunch of roommates. That's a romantic situation. To everyone then lies to a jury. And remember this, Steve Howling, she even lied to police and everybody's believing her until she's taking them to her job. And all this time she's been wearing the uniform and wearing the ID, um, and going to work or the parents think so, she's even dressing up like she's going to work at the theme park.

They get all the way there with her in the car. She gets all the way to the door and she goes, okay, you got me. I haven't worked here in a long time. And now she's lying to this guy. I mean, it's the same M.O. The jury's got to feel like a big idiot, Steve. Nothing that Casey says can ever be taken at face value. You know, she doesn't care that he has a wife.

She doesn't care that he has kids. She doesn't care any of that. It's all about her. It's all about what she wants. It's all about what she needs. That's how it's been for her entire life. OK, Steve Howling, I appreciate you going into that psychological analysis. I have Dr. Bethany Marshall for that. I'm asking you about M O method of operation, modus operandi. That is how taught mom escaped justice. That is how she lived rent free for so long. That is how she had her parents taking care of Kelly. All of this. This is her M.O. to just squeeze everything she can out of people, lie her way through and fake it till she makes it.

That just shows you that she's able to say things and just kind of worm her way in there, no matter who it hurts, no matter who's in the way, no matter what. And, you know, she's very, very good at it. She just has those the words that she needs to say. You know, he says that she has an intoxicating aura, which I don't even know what that is. Whoa, please stop. Please stop.

Please stop. This guy is blowing up a 20 year marriage because top mom has an intoxicating aura. Is that what you just said? That is exactly what I just said, Nancy. And that's what everybody around him says. Intoxicating. Now, that's an interesting choice of words.

Because whenever I want to find Totmom, I just put out the APB to all the local bars. Because she will be there in a pair of hot pants having a shot. And I'm not judging. I'm not the church lady. I don't care. But after her daughter was murdered, rephrase, after she killed her daughter, I would have thought escaping life behind bars would have made her, oh, there she is on the stripper pole at Fusion Bar for the hot body contest. I would think that she would dedicate her life to good works.

Well, that ain't happening. Guys, where did it all start? Well, as far as we know, right here. Listen. Okay, so is that a vehicle stolen too? No, this is my vehicle. What vehicle was stolen? It's a 98 Pontiac Sunfire.

Who has her? Do you have a name? Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez. Who is that? Babysitter? She's been my nanny for about a year and a half, almost two years. Why are you calling now? Why didn't you call 31 days ago? I've been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which is stupid. Okay. Can you give me the name of the nanny again? Like, spell it out for me. Zenaida. Z-E-N-A-I-D-A.

Last name? Fernandez. Fernandez. Hyphen Gonzalez. I love the way that she lies through this. She's so calm. Her mother, Kelly Anthony's grandmother, Sandy, who supported her and took care of her and treated her like her own child. The grandma is hysterical and she is lying so well she can spell this fake person.

This person does not even exist. Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez. And she actually says, yes, that's with a hyphen. It's Zenaida, Z-E-N-I-D-A. Her daughter is quote missing. Last name Fernandez hyphen Gonzalez. You know, Raymond Giudice with me, a renowned criminal defense attorney located in the Atlanta jurisdiction, but practices everywhere. Giudice, it's just, the criminals do the same thing

over and over and over. How many times were you in court with me and somebody had to have a bond forfeiture and I'd say, just go home to his mom's house he's under the bed if you go we'll be able to plead him not guilty and go to trial in about two hours same thing same thing here she's doing the same thing using another man I might add another man just milk them till they're dry. It's happening all over again.

Does the jury ever stop and think, wow, I effed up. Look, at the bottom of that form that the jury handed back many years ago, it said, we the jury find Casey Anthony not guilty. And if this guy wants to believe that that's the truth, he's entitled to do so. He's a grown man. Did I not just say it's men? It's like somehow she gets them by the hook and they believe everything. And her mother, of course, you know, Raymond's UJ. I believe everything my children tell me, but I trust and then confirm. Remember that? But here she has this unique ability and I know Dr. Bethany Marshall is chomping at the bit. But let me go to Rob Dick.

This is top mom, Casey Anthony's former bodyguard, bounty hunter, private investigator. An interesting observation was made when top mom mom Casey Anthony first got out of jail. And now this is when she was charged with some minor offense, um, obstructing justice or welfare of a child, something like that. She got out on bond and then was later arrested for murder. But the first thing she said when she got on on bond the first time she went home, okay remember her daughter's still missing, her parents have like cement blocks in their stomach they're so upset

walks in the door and says what's for supper? Really? Because you know, Rob Dick, when my fiance was murdered, I couldn't eat. I lost down to 89 pounds. I couldn't think. I couldn't hear music. I couldn't hear the clock tick in our home. My mother had to stop all the clocks because their ticking just drove me crazy because Keith was dead and nothing should go forward. That's what it felt like. And she waltzes in and says, Hey, Hey mom, what's for supper? Supper, my rear end. What were your observations, Rob Dick? Well, that was a critical moment because that was the exact moment that we knew it was bad. I mean, you have to understand the timing of that. She had been missing for 31 days and then been in custody for 30 days. So she's out of the public eye. She's in the jail.

She has no way to look for her daughter or do anything. And the second she's out and in front of her parents, I mean, it should have been, you know, where are we at? What's the latest tip? Where can we find something? You know, what are we doing? Screaming and nothing. It was like, hey, I'm here. Let's get the party started. And it was bad at that point. Joining me also, in addition to Rob Dick, Gerardo Bloisi, former forensic investigator in the Casey Anthony case, testified in the murder trial, president of G&J Forensics and author of CSI, the Casey Anthony child murder case. Gerardo, thank you for being with us. I know that you focus

on the forensics, but I'd like to hear your analysis of what's happening right now, Gerardo. Well, it is sad what happened at this time. And thank you for having me in your program. In relation with this new relationship that Casey has, well, Casey is a pathological liar, and she's a selfish person. And she always thinks about herself. And she wants to live the crazy life without responsibility. And right now, I believe that Casey is one of those cold-blood human beings as well as a sociopath. And he's a sick liar. I remember being asked about this at the very beginning. When I talked about walking up to that car and getting about three feet away from it. And the smell that emanated from that car.

I could smell it three feet away on the passenger side. When I opened up that car door, yeah, it smelled like decomposition. Human decomposition. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today. And it smells like there's been a dead body in the car. Okay, what is the three-year-old's name? Kaylee. decomposition. She's been missing four. I have not seen her since the 7th of June. So it's Karen, isn't it? Karen's missing. Karen's missing. She took her a month ago.

More bad behavior from the party mom who was out on the town while her toddler daughter was missing. Todd, Mom, back in the headlines again. Surprised? No. This guy blowing up a 20-year marriage to be with taught mom Casey Anthony because of her, quote, intoxicating aura. But this isn't the first man that fell for her BS. Listen to our friends A&E.

Did you knowingly conceal Kaylee's whereabouts? No. Okay, so you're Kaylee's whereabouts? No. Okay, so you're struggling with that one a little bit. Tell me why. It means because I was so close to her house that she was found. Right. Steve Helling joining us, senior national news reporter, New York Post author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony story. Steve Helling, from what I've learned, this guy, this married man really believes she's innocent because they're at a bar,

her natural habitat, not judging, don't care. But it just reminds me that right before it all came out that Kelly was actually dead, I've observed surveillance video at a store where top moms in there getting case after case after case of beer. Oh, and some push-up bras. Got to have that to go with your beer. But that said, has he not seen this A&E special? Did he not see any of the testimony at trial, Helen? I don't know if he thought or not, but he sure didn't pay attention to it if he watched it. Because you don't have to watch very much about Casey Anthony to know what she did.

And if he thinks that she's innocent of everything and she was just, you know, this poor innocent girl back then, then he hasn't been paying attention. But I don't think he cares, Nancy. He doesn't care. He does not care if she's innocent. He does not care if she's guilty. He doesn't care. He just wants to get with Casey Anthony. Okay. You know what? George Anthony is hyperventilating and getting close to vomiting during a polygraph because he's visualizing Kaylee's burial site. Listen. Did you conceal her whereabouts? Did I conceal her whereabouts?

I did not know where she was at. Okay, so why are you struggling with that? Oh, man. From our friends at A&E, and George Anthony, who she threw under the bus, isn't the only one that suffered. Listen. I'm having a hard time. I'm having a panic attack. I'm sorry. I take all my anxiety pills. I'm sorry. No, that's fine.

No. Take a deep breath, please. I'll take one with you. We're going to get through this. You want to go to the hospital? I need to breathe. Get away. Get away. I can't breathe.

From our friends at A&E, and it just goes on and on and on. You think George and Cindy are over this? They'll never be over what happened to little Kelly. Ray Giudice, renowned criminal defense attorney, you've tried a lot of cases. Did you notice that Cindy Anthony says, I'm 100% convinced she, Taunt Mom, knows what happened. Even now, even now, they can't bring themselves to say, she killed her. I know she killed her. Now, they still can't say it.

They just say she knows what happened. It's hard to fault parents who love their daughter at some level for those words to come out of their mouth would just, I can imagine, be so painful. And I would assume, and Dr. Marshall can obviously address this better, but they've had to live with this for all these years, and they've had to live with this for all these years and they've had to develop their coping mechanisms and their language and their message to allow them to get by. But again, this guy in Tennessee, he ought to look at what Casey put her own parents through, let alone what she did to her child before he goes any further. And joining us,

renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Dr. Bethany, look, I'm just a lay person. I'm just a trial lawyer. Just hit me because I don't even know where to start with this. And Nancy, this whole situation is so tragic. Let's remember that this whole saga with Casey and Kaylee began when Cindy Anthony went to see a therapist about her daughter's lack of maternal bonding towards the granddaughter. And the therapist said, I think you need to get Casey to take more responsibility. It's when Cindy encouraged

Casey or forced Casey to take responsibility that Casey just killed her daughter. So let's put that in context and hold on to the fact that Casey is not likely to have responsibility in any relationship if she didn't have it with her own daughter. My daughter finally admitted that the baby's in the store. I need to find her. Your daughter admitted that the baby is where? That the babysitter took her a month ago, that my daughter's been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself.

There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. Okay, what is the three-year-old's name? Kaylee. C-A-Y-L-E-E. Anthony. Is your daughter there? I'm on the phone with them. Is your daughter there? Yes.

Can I speak with her? Do you mind if I speak with her? Thank you. I called them two hours ago. They haven't gotten here. And she finally admitted to me that he took her a month ago. I called them two hours ago. They haven't gotten here. Can you speak finally? I'm in a room with Danny. He took her a month ago. Ma'am. Ma'am. Okay, Danny, they want to talk to you. I don't have a good question. I don't have a good question.

Hello? Hello? Yes. Hi. Can you tell me what's going on a little bit? I'm sorry? Can you tell me a little bit what's going on? My daughter's been missing for the last 31 days. And you know who has her?

I know who has her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today now from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment, about a minute. Okay. Did you guys call and report a vehicle stolen? Yes, my mom did. Joining us, Steve Helling, senior national news reporter with the New York Post

and author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony story. What triggered your story? Why do you care if Tom Mom's sleeping with a married guy? Well, you know, I got to give certainly a lot of credit to Rob Dick, who's on our panel today. He knew about it. And, you know, the thing is that when you start hearing all these things that she does and this wake of destruction that she's been leaving behind her now for 15 years or 16 years, you know, you start feeling like it's newsworthy. It's something that is interesting. If nothing else, you know, I heard from a couple of women who have been talking to this guy, to Tyson, and now don't want to date him anymore because he's dating Casey Anthony.

It's a public service at this point. You need to know what she's up to. You need to know what she's doing. So you're basically in it for altruistic reasons and you consider it a PSA public service announcement. Okay. I didn't see that coming. I give you all the credit for pulling that one out of your, well, pocket. Rob Dick joining me, Casey Anthony's former bodyguard, bounty hunter, private investigator extraordinaire. How did you find her? Well, I had gotten a tip that she was in Tennessee when I was actually there at a conference and somebody gave me a tip of watch your back. What conference? It was CrimeCon 2024. I was there. I had no idea that I was just so close to top mom, Casey Anthony. So you get a tip and then what happens?

Yeah, I just happened to look her up to see and then it just kind of all came out from there. It unfolded with, you know, her living with this Tyson and looked at that and tried to figure out, well, who's this guy? And then they had both come from West Palm. So it just kind of all fell together with, you know, him and his wife moving to Murfreesboro and then her following him out there. And then next thing you know, they both have an apartment together. So she basically followed this guy from Florida. OK, speaking of a quiet life, listen. A recent article on the life of Casey Anthony claims the infamous tot mom leads a solitary life these days. In the Peacock series, Anthony reveals she is working as a research assistant for Patrick McKenna, the lead

investigator for her defense team at trial, and has been on the job for the last 10 plus years, leading a quiet life in West Palm Beach, Florida. But now news is breaking that Casey Anthony is having an affair with a married man and is relocating to Tennessee. Okay, well, a solitary life? It doesn't look solitary to me. The notorious tot mom is dating a father of two. She allegedly blew up a 22-year-old marriage to get him. You know, I'm very, very curious. Gerardo Bloisi joining me, former forensic investigator in the murder case. I'm curious about the forensic evidence you found in top mom Casey Anthony's car. Explain. and one of the detectives called me that they have a vehicle to be processed for forensics analysis and they only say to me that was related to a missing child.

So I focused my investigation of the vehicle and I always looking for DNA, any kind of blood, body fluids and especially hairs. And also when I start to photograph the vehicle, the stereo of the vehicle, and they went open, the driver's side, I smell immediately decomposition of a human decomposition odor. So I immediately called the detective, say, hey, look, I have suspicious of foul play in this case. And after that, I recovered some 13 hairs from the trunk. One of them was positive for mitochondria DNA, that the mitochondria DNA came from the mother's side.

So those two pieces of evidence are the area samples that we collected from the trunk because we have two questions in order to prove that that smell came from a decomposed body, that was a challenge. The second challenge was that one of those hair came from Kali and the Kali was in the trunk. And both analysis from the Tennessee lab

came from the chemicals compound of a decomposed smell. And the FBI lab came with a positive DNA mitochondria from the mother's side which is Q12 that came positive for DNA of the mother's side. Yeah, you're right Gerardo Bloisi because the hair could have only come from three people. That would be Cindy Anthony, top mom Casey Anthony, or baby Kelly. It wasn't Cindy's because Cindy's hair was treated blonde. It wasn't top mom's because her hair also was chemically treated, which means it could only be one person in the world. And that is Kelly Anthony. So top mom's car smelled like a dead body in the trunk and in the trunk from

where the smell emanated is her child's hair. She had her child in the trunk of her car. So, Dr. Bethany Marshall, we have Gerardo Bloisi on today for a very special reason. As a reality check to what really happened. And this guy, he wants to be with top mom Casey Anthony. Oh, Nancy, you know, he has as serious a corruption of conscience as she does. Tyson moved his wife out to Tennessee while he was already having an affair with Casey. What does that tell you about him? It tells you that he's evil too. He is not detached.

He doesn't care about his loved ones. He is willing to blow things up. As you said earlier, again, people have affairs, not because they're in love with the other person, but because they're in love with how that other person makes them feel. I mean, think about it. Sociopaths like Casey Anthony, they come across as charming, outgoing, at the center of things. And so they charm people into thinking, lull people into thinking that they're sort of at the pinnacle of things, at the center of things. So he finds that very gratifying. He's not really putting together in his mind the gravity of the crime with

who he's sleeping next to. And we've seen this in prison studies with women who visit men in jail. They'll be in love with a man, but they'll claim not to know the nature of the crime. So they refuse to put their thoughts together about it. In a recent BuzzFeed News article, the showrunner for Where the Truth Lies, Alexandra Dean, is quoted as saying Casey Anthony has a small life with a small circle of friends and loved ones. Dean says Casey still talks to her brother and her mother, but not that often. Dean says they communicate, but I wouldn't call the relationship close. After accusing her father, George, of sexually abusing her in her youth that often. Dean says they communicate, but I wouldn't call the relationship close. After

accusing her father, George, of sexually abusing her in her youth and claiming he killed Kaylee to cover up his abuse of her, Casey and George Anthony don't communicate with one another. She doesn't care if he's married or not, says a friend of Casey Anthony, the top mom saying she's, quote, living the life I want. And again, I'm not the church lady. I don't care who sleeps with who, who does what, as long as it's not a felony. Her MO is the same.

Her modus operandi, method of operation, same thing all over again. Go from one man to the next, to the next, to the next, exclusion her mother. She did it to her mother too. Squeeze everything you can out of them. Lie through your teeth to get what you want and then move on. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. First, take a listen to Holden Zappel, CrimeOnline.com. In her most recent move, Casey Anthony has uprooted her life in Florida to be with her new man in Tennessee, who is married for 22 years and has two young adult sons. One of Anthony's friends tells the New York Post the once-accused murderer doesn't care

if he's married or not, saying, all she knows is that he makes her feel good and she likes that. She was willing to follow him to Tennessee. She sees a future with him. Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, did I just hear the words she uprooted her life? What life?

I mean, the no job, no anything. Uproot what? This is one of the core features of sociopathy is that the person wants to suck the life out of everyone around them. That's her only MO. She doesn't have time to go to the library, get a degree, read a book, make friends. She is taking advantage of everyone around her. She will take advantage of Tyson too, probably as much as he is taking advantage of her.

You know, Raymond Giudice, did you hear earlier that she's portrayed as having a quote, small life and a quote, solitary life? This sounds like a bond hearing or a sentencing hearing where the lawyer just drones on and on and on about how awesome their client. You'd think it was a nun, a priest or a virgin. It ain't. Okay. She is not at home tonight with the doors locked and the shades pulled, sipping hot cocoa, reading War and Peace.

Okay. That's not what's happening. So the way that criminal defendants can change, they're like chameleons, and they can present in a way that is entirely different than what they really are. They're like water flowing down the side of a mountain, Nancy. If they hit a rock, they go around it. When they come to the tree root, they go under it. They adapt. They learn. I've had many clients that I would say to them, you know, if you just taken the time to apply all of your scheming and your manipulation and your energy to getting a college degree or opening a business, you'd probably be very successful in their own weird way.

Some criminals are absolutely brilliant. And I think she is convinced Casey Anthony is convinced that she is, but she can is consistently rewarded. She never pays the consequences as everybody's pointed out for her manipulative behavior. I want to one quick legal thing. Should there be a divorce in the state of Tennessee, the infidelity of this gentleman, his wife is going to be compensated with alimony and any resources from the family assets that he uses to party with Casey Anthony, take her out, vacations, hotels, gifts, that can be given to the wife in a

proportionate financial matter. Unfortunately, Tennessee does not have the old alienation of affections lawsuit. A handful of states still have that, that allow a spouse to sue the intervening boyfriend, girlfriend for the alienation of affections. Does Florida have it? Alienation of affections? It does not. Does Florida have that? No, Florida nor Tennessee have it. Very few states have it anymore. I just looked. It goes back, unfortunately. Because there have been major cases where the mistress or the lover was sued and had actions brought against them for alienation of affections.

You know, I'm just thinking, you know, a lot of people put irreconcilable differences. She's just going to write, Tot Mom blew up my life. Take a listen to this. The now 38-year-old Tot Mom meets her latest conquest at the South Florida gym where they both work out. Tyson Ray Rhodes, an engineer for an aerospace company, and his wife of 22 years moved from South Florida to Tennessee at the beginning of the year. Casey Anthony and Rhodes have been spotted together at an upscale Tennessee apartment complex getting into Rhodes' truck, each wearing workout clothes. The infamous mother charged and acquitted in her two-year-old daughter's death. Is she stirring up trouble again?

Steve Helling joining us from the New York Post. I understand that she's living in a luxury apartment near the family home where I guess the wife is still living. Who's paying for that? Well, you know, we don't see the records, but I can tell you that he was part of her finding this place. And knowing that she doesn't make a whole lot of money, I don't know how she can afford it without his help. It doesn't make any sense. Wait, are you telling me Tom has a job? Well, okay, we'll put job in quotation marks. She does research work remotely for her former private investigator.

Wait, are you actually saying that with a straight face? She does what remotely? I'm trying here, Nancy. I'm trying. That's what she has always said is what she does for a living. I don't know how she has made anyone do it. I thought she was a photographer. Oh yeah. Well, she had case photography in South Florida that, you know, she never even filed the paperwork to keep it going for a second. I'm sorry. You're making my head hurt. So. All right.

All right. OK. Working remotely, taking pictures. So no job. Got it. You know what? Amazes me about this. It's just the same thing over and over. And you know, Raymond,

again, you know, I don't give a flying fig who sleeps with who or what they do. Don't care. But what disturbs me is that over and over we see criminal defendants, in this case, a killer, have the same pattern. And at some point, you'd think it would break, right? That the enablers would fall away, but they don't. People just keep getting used and used and used. And it's what happened then. And it's what's happening now. And I find it incredibly curious. It's like I'm looking at, you know, a tarantula or a poisonous snake in a glass box. I don't understand how it works. How does she keep doing it? Right.

And not only does she find the weak link, but here's a fellow that marriage, healthy children, assumedly a good job, a family reputation in his community. And and no offense to Steve, but this gentleman is now in the New York Post linked to Casey Anthony. I mean, there's got to be somebody else to date, you know, go to the church, join a join a club. There are other nice people out there that. But but you know, I worked for an old country lawyer when I was a baby lawyer and he had a great expression and it went like this, water finds its own level. Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out here. Again, I'm not worried about this guy. He's old enough to know better. And what Judy Chay just said about water seeking its own level,

but I somehow doubt that he has ever been charged with murder. I still don't understand the fascination. I mean, ladies out there, men out there, when you find somebody's been charged with, even if they escaped murder charges, please run the other way as if you had seen a monster. I still don't understand this attraction. And the whole reason that we're discussing this today is not because she's sleeping with a married man. Who cares? That's his problem and his wife's problem. But it's the fact that criminals continue. They're like vampires sucking the blood out of innocent victims. And I just don't get the attraction. Yes, they do, Nancy. But sometimes I find somebody just like

them. And I think we're being too easy on this guy. I mean, he has blown up a 22-year marriage. He is with a very infamous person who's going to have an impact on his two sons' lives. They're going to read about it in the news. He has to ignore that in order to be with her. And I don't think she's powerful enough to manipulate a man with a wife and two children into thinking something that he already doesn't want to think. And at the beginning of a relationship, Nancy, two people usually idealize each other for the first six or seven months. That's how relationships get started. They don't see the flaw in the other person. In fact, they see the other person as having the potential

to meet the unmet needs that they had from the relationship before. So let's say if he feels that his relationship is devitalized or not that exciting or blah, blah, blah, he's going to see Casey Anthony as having the potential to fill that need for him. However, within six or seven months, all the idealization will drop away and he'll have to see her for who she truly is. I don't care about their moral issues. I'm interested in this from a criminal law point of view. And another thing you mentioned is two children, their adult sons. Once you have children, I think part of your duty is that you behave in a way you want them to behave. I mean the people that I want to

impress the most are John David and Lucy. That's who I want to impress and I just wonder how this affects his adult children. I mean, I already know how it's affected his wife. But second first, same as the first. Talk Mom, Casey Anthony. Add it again. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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