Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tots looked like 'concentration camp survivors,' ate paint off walls

Episode Date: February 21, 2018

3 children rescued from a Pennsylvania home were so emaciated they looked like concentration camp survivors, a prosecutor said. Joshua and Brandi Weyant admitted to starving the 4, 5, and 6 year olds to the point that they were eating paint chips. Nancy Grace digs into this case with Juvenile Judge Ashley Willcott, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Dr. Tiffany Sanders, and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Grace is also joined by school law attorney Andrea Tytell and reporter John Lemley to discuss the latest in the Parkland, Florida, school shooting. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Children, days from death, who look as if they had just, quote, walked out of a concentration camp. You know, when I start reading the news this morning, I started reading the news at 5 a.m., actually 10 till 5. I hate it. That's the H word we're not allowed to say in our house, but because the children aren't here, I'll say it. I hate it when's the H word we're not allowed to say in our house but because the children aren't here I'll say it I hate it when I'm reading the news and then suddenly I come upon

a site that shows me the photos of the concentration camps because it is so hurtful and painful to see what humans do to each other.

The bones nearly protruding through the skin. People literally looking like walking skeletons. I cannot imagine the pain they endured. And now I hear about little children that look like that in our country. Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I want the truth. Joining me, juvenile judge, child advocate and lawyer, Ashley Wilcott. Also with me, forensic expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. And joining me, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com, Alexis Tereszczuk. Alexis, explain to me how three little children are found looking as if they had, quote,

walked out of a concentration camp in our country, right under our noses. Police have said that they found three children locked in a bedroom and they found them. They were so skinny, so malnourished and starving. These kids were actually eating paint off the wall. The children were eating paint off the wall to live. Ashley Wilcott, I have prosecuted and investigated so many child abuse cases, not just child molestation, but child abuse as well, where children were burned with cigarettes and beaten into an irreversible coma.

This is hurting my heart so much. The children, Ashley, were eating the paint off the walls. They were tortured. They were allowed to literally starve to death and the trauma and the physical consequences. And I know Joe Scott Morgan can speak better to that. But this is a horrific, sadistic, starving children to death. And these kids are doing all they can to survive. Remember, they are four years old, five-year-old, and six years old. So they are very young children. And what's also disturbing to Alexis Tereschuk with WriterOnline.com, the parents look healthy. In fact, you know what? Mommy hasn't missed a meal. No, not at all. The parents were

fine. They absolutely looked like they were eating every meal. And you know, another thing that the police said about the kids, there were no beds for these kids. There were no toys for these children. They were just locked in an empty room, eating the paint off the walls. Oh, this is just hurtful. Joseph Scott Morgan, first of all, explain to me how the moment the police found them and unlocked that bedroom door, they knew the children, instinctively knew the children were days from death. These children, Nancy, when they were initially found would have had almost i don't know how to describe it other than ghost-like features uh they're locked in a room uh wasted in appearance that means their eyes are going to be sunken they're probably begging for water at

this point in time because you know even even if you're uh even starvation cases, you've got people that are absent water, just the basics that are contained in food. They would have been unable to speak very well. My suspicion is they're just kind of laying about on the floor in total lethargy. And that goes to absence of food, but it also goes to something else, Nancy, and that's toxicity from other things in this room they could have been ingesting. Thinking about them scraping the paint off the wall to eat it, explain to me what paint, particularly lead paint, will do to the human body, Joe Scott. Nancy, there's a variety of paints out there. This is an older home. I was taking a look at the pictures of this place.

And if a lead paint is there, lead, as many people in your audience know, is a heavy metal. And this is going to affect the central nervous system. It can lead to seizures. It's highly toxic and carcinogenic. So this could lead to cancers. They'll have muscle stiffness, joint stiffness. And what it does, it's kind of, kind of, it's really, really horrific because you can see a young, young person that has been ingesting lead or a lead diet that has lead in it. And they will give a manifestation, Nancy, almost like they're well into their 80s, you know, very stumped over and hard to move.

The hands will present almost in claw-like features. This is, you know, lead obviously is something that, you know, I've worked cases where people have been poisoned by lead, and it's a horrible set of circumstances, not to mention the other cocktail in the paint that binds this paint together where it's made at the factory. To Alexis Tereszczuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com. Alexis, the reason I wanted so badly to do this story, as much as I hate even reading the words in my investigation, I want the world to know that this is happening in the house next to you, down the street from you, the house that's catty-cornered to you, in your neighborhood.

This is a lovely rural area. It's beautiful. It's there in Pennsylvania. When you look around the home, there are lush trees and a lawn that looks like it's just been mowed. You would never imagine that that's what's happening inside this home. And Alexis, there were 10 people living there. They all let the children starve.

It's very difficult for me to believe that the mother and father were the only ones that knew the children were locked in a room starving alexis and that's the thing is that you're right there were 10 people living there so it took somebody else outside the home to call and report these children to ask the police to go check on them and and they but they were locked in there they were not allowed out and one thing that the police learned in their investigation that they revealed, they said the reason that these parents were starving these kids was because they didn't want them anymore. And that was it. They just decided, we don't want you, so we're just going to starve you to death. Well, when they were found, deputies questioned the mother and

father. Ashley Wilcott, joining me, juvenile judge and child welfare law expert. Ashley, again, when deputies arrived, they said that they could see the children's bones through their skin. I just want you to hold that mental image for a moment, Ashley. Now, the mom and dad gave conflicting statements that they were not the children's parents, but the neighbors insist, oh, yes, they are. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? So are they or are they not the biological parents is something that the state needs to be looking into because these children are in foster care to determine whether or not they are. One thing that always is interesting to note, if they, let's assume, and I know that we don't know this, let's assume they're adoptive parents, they would be receiving an adoption subsidy

for each of these children if they were adopted from foster care. So there are a whole lot of questions because some argue, what if they were receiving a subsidy, earning money and didn't want the kids, so they just locked them in a closet? These are things that have to be investigated. Well, the other issue is, I feel confident, and I'm waiting for the investigation to unfold, that whether they are the adopted parents or the biological parents,

that they are receiving some sort of government paycheck for these children. And with each child, you get another paycheck. So the neighbors and others insist that these are the biological parents. But your suggestion adds a whole nother layer of deceit that they had the children to get money and then were slowly starving them. Joe Scott Morgan, forensic expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, the children each weighed under 30 pounds. What does that mean? Well, as we've discussed in previous cases, Nancy, you were painting this picture of the police officers being able to see the skeleton of the children as they walked in.

This gives us an indication that now any kind of fat reserves that the children had on their bodies, and we all have fat on our bodies in some level, had already been consumed. That's base energy. Now you're into a point, and get this, where their bodies are literally ingesting themselves, where they're eating away at muscle. That's how you get to the point when you see these pictures of people that have been in these horrible captive situations in prison camps and things like that, where they look like walking skeletons that's what these children look like because their body was seeking nutrition and so the body then begins to eat the muscle tissue you've gone beyond the fat into the muscle and these kids are wasted in

appearance something else that they probably saw as well is lack of nutrition means that these kids teeth are beginning to fall out more than likely they're losing hair they've got horrible there's a horrible rash that comes about on the skin as well as a result of malnutrition it's it's a pure total and living hell that these kids would have been in you know what's amazing alex Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com? I'm looking at the home right now, and the yard is mowed. There are islands of shrubs and ornamental trees in the yard. Everything is neat, and it looks freshly painted on the outside. The roof looks like it may be new

there are clearly two fireplaces in the home there is an attached garage i see a blue and a red a very shiny red pickup truck out front that looks like it may have just been waxed because it's so shiny they took care of the home, Alexis, and the cars, but not the children, it looks like. And that's why it took a neighbor who probably had seen the kids for a while, and then all of a sudden they disappeared. And so they got concerned about them,

which is wonderful that people are finally taking notice and calling and not just assuming that they have no business getting involved because these little children had nobody else to help them because they were locked in this house. And with all the other people coming and going, nobody said anything. It took somebody that lived there and had seen those kids and knew they were there and had seen them before to call the police and say something is going on because we haven't seen these kids in a while. How does that happen? With me, juvenile judge, child welfare law expert, Ashley Wilcott. Ashley, how do you, they can't possibly be going to school in this condition. So how does that happen? How do you

just not show up for school and nobody notices? Well, I know the ages are four, five, and six. And so let's assume the six-year-old is in school. It doesn't, shouldn't happen. Somebody should notice. They have to take attendance. They have to note if the child's in school or not. If it's not mandatory, for instance, in the state of Georgia, it's not mandatory to go to kindergarten. So if they're not in something that's not mandatory, it may not be reported the same. But otherwise, attendance is reported. It's called truancy. It should be reported so that someone can investigate as to where the children are. The three little children, a six-year-old boy and two girls, just five and four,

were discovered by deputies underweight, their skin caked with animal hair, dirt, feces, and urine. According to the arrest affidavit to Joseph Scott Morgan, their core body temperatures were just 94 degrees. For I was spending so much time locked in an unheated bedroom shared by all three. What does it mean when your body temperature is down four points? Oh, it's, it's, you're, you're getting into a range there, Nancy, where the body is in an unsustainable posture. Again, this goes back to the malnourishment. The kids, I mean, it's very simple science. These kids have no insulation in dwelling in their body.

That's one of the reasons we have a fat layer on our body. So their core body temperature is easily going to drop. Let's think about like if any of us have aged family or friends around, one of the things that many of the aged always complain about is talking about they're constantly feeling cold. Well, one of the reasons is, is that they've lost body mass at that point in time in their life and they've got poor circulation. That's what I'm talking about with these kids. These kids have been almost in an accelerated posture going forward where the aging process has taken. And my bet is this, Nancy, moving down the road years and years from now,

there is a possibility that these kids could have a shortened life as a result of this taking place during their developmental process. There was even a guy and his fiance that rented. I told you there was two attached garages to the home. It turns out that one of them was being rented out as an apartment. Believe it or not, they were making money off a renter like in a guest area of the home. He says he and his fiancee lived there and they had no idea how many children lived there. He never even knew about the inhabitants of the locked room. When he was asked, he replied he thought the wooden structure behind the home was a playhouse, although he never saw any children in it. How can that be? How can that be, Ashley, that you got somebody renting and they are in shock?

They didn't even know the children were there. Well, keep in mind, these two parents are criminals and they are going to hide what they have done or are doing. And my question is, if you have three children who have been starved to the point of malnutrition and almost death, which means a long period of time, these children may be not able to make any noise, to not cry out, to not be heard. And if the renters are renting and ignoring what's going on or going into the big house, I see that criminals could hide this activity, sadly. You know, according to the state police affidavit, which I have read in detail,

the children told deputies they were locked in their room and could not leave. Investigators found hook and eye locks on the outside of the children's bedroom door. They stated they would pound on the wall to be let out to use the bathroom and no one would come, so they would just urinate on themselves or the floor. The affidavit states that the room, quote, reeked of a strong odor similar to that of caged animals. The two older, a five- and a six-year-old, were so emaciated that their ribs, spines, and other bones were actually visible through their skin. And this just breaks my heart, Alexis.

The children say the last thing they remembered eating was an apple. And they told the police that the reason they were locked in the room was because they got caught trying to, they used the word steal food. When your child lives in your house, they're not stealing your food. And that's what they said. And these kids are so little, four, five, and six, to tell, to understand, to tell the police that the reason that they were locked in was because they tried to steal food. It's so sad. And also, you know, the woman, the parents rented this home. They didn't even own this house. They rented it. And their landlady said that originally they had always been very responsible tenants, that they paid the rent on time. They always called and

said if something had happened, they were respectful. And she said, but then when they went, the police found the house. There was lice in the house. There were bedbugs in the house, and there was mold everywhere. And that's how these kids were living. And here's the dichotomy. Listen to this, Ash. The mom, Brandy Wyatt, 38, clipped coupons and you know for food and actually sent extra bushels of apples and frozen food to her neighbors Joshua the husband would clear away trash and rake the lawn and

they even had recently hosted a birthday party with a bonfire in the backyard. Now, what do you think about that, Ash, that the children could smell, for instance, hot dogs and hamburgers cooking at the party in the backyard while they're locked in the dark at 94 degrees body temp, eating paint off the wall? Nancy, this is crap. It devastates me. It breaks my heart. But more than that, it makes me angry. I am telling you right now, in my expert opinion, they were getting a paycheck for each of these children. They locked them away. They ignored them. They discarded them. These children are going to be traumatized forever. Their physical and mental health is going to be an issue forever. They physical and mental health is going to be an issue forever.

They are going to require treatment forever. And these pieces, you know what parents sat around living high off the hog. This case disgusts me. You know, I know defense attorneys and shrinks will disagree with me, but I just wish that people that treated children this way could just be sent away to an island and they could all enjoy each other's company and never be here to scare or mistreat or abuse children ever again.

Take a listen to what the Chief Deputy District Attorney, Jennifer Gettle, says. I think that perhaps the most horrifying pictures are of the three children, of course. They look like they walked out of a concentration camp, just as we would have had the testimony about two weeks, for two of them, two weeks away from death, is what the doctors had told us. Of course, the conditions of what they were sleeping in. I know that there have been pictures out in the media that show a room with lots of things

in it, excuse me, but the reality was the room as the police found it on that day was completely empty. There were no beds in that room. There were no toys in that room. There were no toys in that room. The only thing that there was was the paint peeling off of the wall. Did they talk about the kids? Did the defendants? The defendants did not make any statements today. How are the kids doing? They are doing much better. All three of them are now out of the hospital and they're thriving. They have doubled their weight since the police became involved.

Are they in foster care at this point? They are in care. Not with their family, obviously. I want to pause right now and thank our partner making our investigation into the Halifax, Pennsylvania case possible. It's LegalZoom, and I value them as my partner here at SiriusXM 132. You know, small business, big hot topic this year, National Small Business Month at LegalZoom, perfect timing. Whether you're just starting out or already have a business, 2018 presents incredible opportunities because new tax laws, which include the biggest changes in tax laws for business owners in the last 30 years, have happened.

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17 sets of parents laying their children to rest. We are live in Florida with the latest on the Florida school shooter, one of the worst shootings in a school in U.S. history. And of course, this morning, it's woulda, coulda, shoulda. What should we have done? Why didn't this happen or that happen? That is cold comfort for the families of these dead children. This shooter, Nicholas Cruz, showing quite a bit of cunning in purchasing weapons, sneaking back to the school where he had already been expelled,

gunning down classmates, then intentionally blending into the crowd, even callously going to a sandwich shop at a McDonald's to kick back after murdering 17 and injuring others. Straight out to John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. John, what is the latest? I know that Cruz was just in court. I know that a judge has ordered the release of social services records on Nicholas Cruz. We're learning about the gun cabinet that should have been locked. And we're learning about how many guns Nicholas Cruz purchased.

What do you know, John Limley? So many details, Nancy, coming our way in just shy of a week now since the shooting. Funerals continue on a daily, grim pace, several a day for the victims. As you mentioned, the suspect, Nicholas Cruz, appeared in court for a procedural hearing on Monday. He had nothing to say in that Broward County Circuit Court. This time, he actually attended in person, not by way of video. He kept his head down, did not appear to make eye contact with the judge or others in the courtroom. Maybe for a moment, he responded briefly to somebody on his defense team. The hearing was all about the rules going forward, about how documents are going to be sealed.

The circuit judge, Elizabeth Sherris, said that she was in favor of openness whenever possible. And the lawyers for Cruz have said that he will plead guilty if prosecutors agree not to pursue the death penalty. No decision yet has been made on that. Meanwhile, in Fort Lauderdale, a judge has ordered the release of a state investigation into allegations of abuse and neglect in the home of Nicholas Cruz. The records were released on Monday and detail how in the late part of 2016, social workers, mental health investigators evaluated and diagnosed Cruz with autism, depression, and ADHD. Hold on right there. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Who diagnosed him with autism, depression, and ADHD. Hold on right there. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Who diagnosed him with autism? These were mental health investigators. Well, hired by whom? They were part of the social worker case that had been opened to look into possible abuse in his home. Abuse, because of the 39 times that I know the police were called, it was all him abusing his mother and others, neighbors as well. I don't recall learning about any police reports regarding his abuse. Correct me if I'm wrong, John Limley. That is correct, but there were rumors that it might be the flip side, that he might be the one experiencing the abuse.

Rumors. Hence the case. How could 39 police reports all be wrong, John? That's the head scratcher. Right. I'm trying to make sense of this. John Lindley, how many guns do you think, do we think, at this juncture Cruz purchased? said that Cruz had obtained at least 10, all of them rifles, one of them an AK-14 just in the past month alone. You know, I know that the family that took him in

owns up to him having five or six weapons and claims he had a right to own an AR-15. I'm confused about something. Maybe I don't understand the facts correctly, John Limley. You said that police sources are saying he had up in the teens of weapons? Right. Add in all of the accessories that go with these guns. He purchased different guns at different stores, and then on top of that, any sort of accessories to make the gun more powerful, those were purchased at yet other stores. Could be online.

There are still some questions about that. I'm trying to understand, to Dr. Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist joining us here on Sirius XM 132, Dr. Tiffany, those that know him do not believe that he is autistic. He had a job at the local Dollar Tree and was performing normally, if not well. He had gotten to all the way up through high school, you know, functioning grade to grade to grade. He had been held back twice. I know at least that much.

He managed to go and purchase on his own all of these weapons, filling out forms, showing ID, saving the money to go buy the weapons, going on social media, posting about himself in photos and his interests, including his intent to become a, quote, professional school shooter. I don't see how he falls under the autistic spectrum. Right, Nancy. And I've worked with tons of children and adolescents who fall into the autism spectrum disorder. And typically, you will see those kids identified as young as age two and three. These individuals will have developmental delays, difficulty with language, difficulty with nonverbal skills. They also can suffer from other mental health difficulties such as seizures, anxiety, ADHD. And what you often truly see is

many of these kids have, with their poor language skills, difficulty communicating. They're not likely to hold down a job. These individuals are often enrolled in high school programs that are life skill based, teaching them basic skills such as math, reading, just so that they can function within life. So I'm highly doubtful that he had autism, but I'm more likely to assume that he had conduct disorder because reports have mentioned that he tortured or abused animals. He had a history of posting ominous messages on social media, threatening and intimidating others. He has had access to all these sorts of weapons and truly has been sort of a bully to others. So that behavior is more in line with conduct disorder, which leads to some of these actions that he later took involving killing 17 people.

Take a listen to what his new parents that have taken him in since his mom passed away with the flu just recently have to say. This is James and Kimberly Sneed talking on our friend ABC's Good Morning America. Listen. It's a roller coaster of emotions. You know, it's still tough. It's still, we're still hurting. We're still grieving. Feeling for the families that's affected. And you opened your home to Cruz for nearly three months. Yes, sir. And you tried to get him counseling. And what was he like in your home?

Nothing like they portray on television or in the media. Everything everybody seems to know, we didn't know. We had rules and he followed every rule to the T. And before he moved into your home, how well did you know him? I had met him a couple times before. He had spent the night at the house, and he was very polite. He seemed normal. And Kimberly, can you take us back to that day?

Was there anything unusual, out of the normal with his behavior before that day? No, no, no. The only thing that was maybe different was that he didn't go to school. He usually drives him to school with him in the morning. He didn't go that particular morning, which sometimes happens. He said he didn't go to school on Valentine's Day. Okay. But when did you realize what he had done? After the SWAT team called me and asked where, if I knew where my son Nicholas was. And I said, he's not my son, but I don't know where he's at. And at that point, I got in touch with my son,

who was fleeing the scene at that point. And a description came out, and we put two and two together, me and my son, and we figured out what was happening. And what was going through your mind when this happened? Did you both find out at the same time? No, she was home sleeping. And at that point, I was was panic stricken for her safety so I called the SWAT officer back to get the police back to my home to check on her. And after all this happened, at one point you did get a chance to see Nicholas and what did you say to him? Did he speak back to you?

Did he say anything back? It was at the police station when they were going past us. And I basically, I went after him. I really wanted to strangle him more than anything. And I just, everything that I wanted to say, I tried to reserve myself. I says, really, Nick? Really? You know, yelled at him and he mumbled something, but I didn't hear it. And he said he said he was sorry. He said he was sorry. but I didn't hear it. And he said he was sorry. He said he was sorry. But I didn't hear that. I was just furious and heartbroken.

Absolutely just heartbroken, devastated. I still can't process it, what he's done, because this wasn't the person that we knew. Not at all. And he was friends with your son. Yes, sir. How's your son holding up? He's angry. He's was friends with your son. Yes, sir. How's your son holding up? He's angry. He's angry.

He's betrayed. He's, you know, he's upset. Furious. He was at that school, too, and he had friends at that school. Joining me right now, special guest, in addition to Ashley Wilcott, Joseph Scott Morgan, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, and John Limley. Joining me now, a lawyer who specializes in school law, Andrea Tytel. Andrea, thank you for being with us. I'd like to hear your thoughts. This poor child fell through the cracks, and the school district is the payor and identifier of first resort. And a child spends most of their time

in school. He was identified, should have been identified under the IDEA, under a mandate called child find, and he fell through the cracks. All my thoughts are so focused on the school district and what could have and should have been done. In school districts, Nancy, have an affirmative duty to identify these children. They receive federal block grant money from Congress every year. And in exchange for that money, they promised to implement and provide special education law. Special education law, under a mandate called Child Find, requires the school districts to identify, evaluate, and remediate problems. This boy's problems did not start before he was expelled. This boy's problems started long ago, and they had a duty to identify him, to assess him, to hold a meeting,

and to make sure he was offered the programming and services necessary to help remediate him. School districts have an array of services that they can offer, including counseling in school and all the way up through hospitalization and residential treatment programs at no cost. Question to you, Andrea. Andrea Tytel, why do you think none of this was done? The things you're saying should have been done. It seems to me that we've got a cadre of social workers and mental health counselors and school administrators who are on the front lines documenting everything they've learned. They are meeting with him. They are counseling him. They are trying to help him.

They've had multiple, countless meetings and sessions with the workers unfortunately there is so little continuity of care and that's what happened this was an accident waiting to happen long before but you were saying he should have gotten all that but apparently he did get all that based on it paid for by you and me and everybody listening right now. We paid for that and I'm happy to. And he got those services. Those services were rendered to him. The services that that he needed required a residential, more likely meal you with education and therapy and whatever else he needed it doesn't sound to me like this young man was given the extent and the level of service that he deserved and required so now andrea you're saying first it was he didn't get the services then when i point out he did get

the services you are now saying he got the wrong services and you are deciding that he should have been, you said, residential treatment. I mean, I don't know if that ever did or didn't happen. that took him and his brother in when they were infants, when they were little, little boys, worked so hard to give them a, quote, beautiful home. And outwardly, the home is beautiful. The mother and father both worked full time and really strove to give them all the love they thought they needed after they were abandoned by their first parents and I'm just trying to figure out what you know that I don't know because I know he met met with mental health workers at the school social workers school counselors repeatedly now why do you think

he should have gone into a residential treatment I don don't believe this young man had an IEP. I don't know that to be the truth, but I would be very curious to ascertain that. An IEP is an individualized educational program that does cover mental health issues. I believe that he was and should have been found eligible for special education under the criteria of severely emotionally disturbed. I don't believe that to be the case. And the fact that DCF identified him through mental health workers, they are not the ones that provide the services. It is the school. The school is the identifier and payer or first resort for these services. But I've also done some investigation and I've learned that DCF said he was in good shape. He was with his mom and he was going to school. And that was the last

report that they did and posed no threat whatsoever to society. Joining me also is child welfare law expert Ashley Wilcott. Ashley, investigators noted his health diagnosis, and it seemed to manifest in hatred. Nazi symbols on his book bag, his backpack, next to a declaration written, I hate and a racial slur, which I'm not even going to

state. And Sully serious sex in 132. That's on his backpack um i i yes all the signs were there and he was expelled ashley i mean you hear what andrea tytale is saying she specializes in school law. I'm sure she's right in that he should have been dealing with a counselor at school and someone to help him. But it sounds like that did happen, Ashley. What am I missing? Well, even if that happened, that's not the only person or agency responsible when you have a child who has so many signs of red flags of help, help, help, help.

Keep in mind, Nancy, from my perspective of child welfare, he was adopted. We don't know if he was adopted from the system or a private individual. We don't know what happened to him before he was adopted. But if it caused trauma, repeated trauma, Brian, brain science now shows that could change the way his brain functions. Was that ever treated by the adoptive family? Was that ever treated by anyone who was caretaking for him in his life? So there are a whole host of people responsible for seeking the help for him.

Bottom line, he was messed up. He did not get whether services were provided or not. It was not sufficient. Well, I know this. Cruz finally declined to talk to Department of Child and Family Services, an investigator who comes to his home to try to help him, and said he had, quote, talked about the situation enough. I want to speak also to the FBI. And I agree. Heads should roll.

A, I believe it was a parole officer. Is that right? Joseph Scott Morgan, partner in parole in Mississippi, contacted the FBI about Cruz posting I'm going to be a professional school shooter online and also I'm looking right now at an Instagram post by Cruz allegedly showing I don't know even know how many weapons lying out on his bed on display including you know semi-automatic weapons yeah the uh the the image there based on what we're hearing nancy is only scratching the surface relative to the weapons that he had uh the uh if you in image, you can actually see the AR platform weapon that he had. That's based upon, for people at home that don't understand, this is based upon the same platform that our troops use in Afghanistan. It's the M4.

And it was just mentioned by John a little while ago, there are a lot of attachments that go into this weapon. This weapon can get to be very, very expensive. And that's one of the curious things about this. He's working at Dollar Tree, and he can afford these weapons. He's also got scoped high-powered rifles there. I think I saw what appeared to be maybe like a.308 deer rifle with a scope. There's a handgun there, a couple of shotguns. And then John had also mentioned that he got an AK platform weapon.

And again, for folks that don't know, that's the variant on what the Russian army carries. And so he's got a lot of firepower here. And for me, from the perspective of, say, looking at this as an investigator and talking about the FBI, how in the world, how in the world can you take all of these reports and not make something out of this and move forward? This kid is a threat and people can accuse me of Monday morning quarterback. I don't care because at this point there's 17 dead people and not to mention people that have been scarred and maimed for the rest of their life. And let's don't forget about the victim's families. And, and for what it, it costs you a gallon of gasoline to go and,

and use old fashioned shoe leather as an investigator and root these things out. I think their focus needs to be on cases like this, keeping, as we say, the homeland secured. I'm just looking at these photos, and I'm thinking of how I drop my children at school every day and what these parents must have gone through when they learned there's been a school shooting they raced to the school leaving home leaving work trying to get there in time and they find out their child is the one found dead in a pool of blood at school i mean we can monday morning quarterback all we want to, as you put it, Joe Scott Morgan. Andrea Tytel brings up what the school should have been doing. Did they?

I don't know. Dr. Tiffany Sanders has an opinion. Well-founded. Joe Scott Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, John Limley. But I know for one clear direction is the FBI. John Limley, I'm stunned at the FBI ignoring this, doing nothing, even saying they couldn't verify the poster's ID. I mean, even I know how to identify an IP address, John Lindley. That investigation has just begun, if you could even consider it underway. We mentioned from the outset that 2016 Florida Department of Children and Families investigation of Nicholas Cruz possibly being mistreated at home. It's interesting to note the ultimate findings. In the report, the DCF noted that Cruz had admitted to cutting himself, felt depressed, and planned to purchase a gun. But investigators

determined that Cruz's mother did not mistreat him. That was the ultimate goal of the investigation was to determine if he was being mistreated. They did cite earlier decisions by counselors that he was not a threat to himself or others. Ultimately, Cruz was not hospitalized and DCF closed the file. Take a listen to what the family that took Cruz in had to say on ABC's GMA. We knew he had one Instagram account that my son had and I guess that would be the the normal one. These other Instagram accounts that he had we had no idea about. My son had no idea about as far as the animal killings. He never did anything like that at our house. We have animals and he loved our animals. Our animals loved him. And you were house. We have animals and he loved our animals.

Our animals loved him. And you were aware that he had weapons when he moved into your home? Absolutely. And where were they kept? Before he moved in, one of the stipulations is he had to get a gun safe. And we got a gun safe on the way back from Lantana from moving his stuff to our house. Did he have, he didn't have free access to this? No, no. I thought I had the only key to the gun safe. And had he ever asked you beforehand to use a gun to take it out of the safe? He asked twice. Once I said yes, because he wanted to clean it. And I don't know which gun he wanted to clean. But he said he wanted to clean a gun. I said, OK. And another time he asked and I told him, no, it wasn't a good time. And why did you tell him no there? I don't know what the situation was in the house. It was just it wasn't a good time. And why did you tell him no? I don't know what the situation was in the house.

It was just, it wasn't a good time. I don't know if we were getting ready to leave or getting ready to sit down for dinner or something, but it wasn't a good time. And judging from any past interaction with him, it seemed like you had no problem with him having a weapon. No, not at all. He followed the rules. He followed the rules.

Followed the rules. They weren't allowed to be out if we weren't home or one of us wasn't home. And he knew that. And to our knowledge, he never had them out. And as far as the animals goes, I am very much an animal person. Anybody who knows me knows that. There's no way I'd let anybody in my house if I thought he was torturing animals at all. And if we'd known anything about the Instagram accounts, I don't even know how to use Instagram.

I'm a little old school. But if we had known anything about that, he, I don't even know how to use Instagram. I'm a little old school. But if we had known anything about that, he wouldn't have even been in our home. That wouldn't even have been an option. And do you have a message for the families out there who've lost children or loved ones in this tragedy? Nothing I can say will heal them. We hurt for them deeply. Very much so. We're devastated and i can't imagine um the pain they must be feeling and like you said nothing that we can say is going to be

any kind of help but we're very sorry that you know they had this experience and never should have happened yeah and again if we had known any of the things that we're hearing we're learning a lot about all of this just the same as everybody else you know and we feel betrayed as well and just shocked you know i may sound like i'm disagreeing with various guests today. I'm looking for answers. They may be right. They may be wrong. Because we're sifting through the rubble of a horrific crime.

A crime that will reverberate in that community and in those families and at those cemeteries from now on. You know, so often when I investigate or report on crimes, I don't let myself think about the actuality of the crime. I was forced to do it as a prosecutor and it's painful to think of a child gunned down dead at school. When you are forced to think about them lying in the floor as their life force drains out of them alone with people running away, jumping over them, away from their parents, dying alone on the floor. That is what has happened to these children. The only thing we can do now

is search for the truth, whatever it may be, and seek change. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.