Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Tummy Tuck Four': Americans Kidnapped, Murdered, En Route to Tuck

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Five friends set out from South Carolina to Mexico.  Latavia "Tay" McGee, a mom of 6, wanted a tummy tuck. The surgical procedure to remove abdominal fat was scheduled with a  doctor in Matamoros, just across the US/Mexico border. One of the friends stayed behind in a Brownsville, Texas hotel room. The woman didn’t have the proper documentation to cross the border.  The four Americans traveled to Matamoros from Brownsville in a rented white minivan. Shortly after they crossed the border, the minivan was fired at. Reportedly, rival drug cartels mistook the friends for Haitian drug smugglers. Two of the friends died in the attack. The other two were held captive for days in a remote region of the Gulf coast.    Joining Nancy Grace today: Neama Rahmani- Former Federal Prosecutor, Legal Commentator, and President of West Coast Trial Lawyers; Author: “Harvard to Hashtag;" INSTAGRAM: @Neamarahmani, Twitter: @NeamaRahmani Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA.; Twitter: @ColdCaseTips and Host: "Zone 7"  Dr. Stephenie Poris- Plastic surgeon in Orlando, FL (only female-owned and operated plastic surgery practice in Orlando); INSTAGRAM: @Stiletto_surgeon FACEBOOK: @porisplasticsurgery Dr. Jan Gorniak- Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV); Board Certified Forensic Pathologist  Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin (Naples, FL) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Americans kidnapped at gunpoint when they're on a vacation in Mexico? It turns out there are murders of Americans on vacation in Mexico. Then why are people still flooding across the border? And how did this happen? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

First of all, take a listen to our friends at WPDE. We're closely following the kidnapping of four U.S. citizens in Matamoros on March 3rd. The FBI working very closely with other federal partners and Mexican law enforcement agencies to investigate this. Christopher Hickson says she had no clue her son, 28-year-old Zendell Brown, had left the state, yet alone the country. Brown is one of four missing and feared kidnapped in Mexico. Grant says she talked with her brother last Thursday while he and three other friends were driving to Mexico.

I felt a little uneasy because I told him I had a dream. You know, I said, so I'm just checking on you. That's what I told him Thursday. And then, like I said, Friday morning, I texted and I didn't get anything. The four are believed to have been targeted by mistake and were not the intended victims. Well, that dream turned into a nightmare. Take a listen to KTRK. Clues on where and what happened to four Americans

continue to emerge following their kidnapping in Matamoros inside the Mexican state Tamaulipas. Surveillance video matching what the FBI says happened is also circulating, although the FBI has yet to confirm if it's the same situation. Tamaulipas is on the State Department's Do Not Travel list because of high crime and kidnapping.

We do also remind Americans about the existing travel guidance when it comes to this particular part of Mexico. Tonight, at least one of the potential victims is being identified by his family in South Carolina as 28-year-old Zendel Brown. The waiting is the worst part. ABC has also confirmed two other Americans with Brown,

Shia Woodard and Taye McGee. Minding their own business, all they did was cross the border. But why? All of this happening just about 12 miles away from the U.S. Take a list of our friends at CBS. Video posted on Twitter appears to show the moment four U.S. citizens were kidnapped in Mexico. State Department officials say they are working to secure the Americans' safe return. The FBI is working very closely with other federal partners and Mexican law enforcement agencies to investigate this. This happened in Matamoros Friday, about a 12-minute drive from Brownsville, Texas. The FBI says the Americans entered Mexico driving a white minivan with North Carolina license plates. Shortly after crossing the border, gunmen opened fire on the passengers in the vehicle. A white minivan is under fire from what machine guns in Mexico. Americans are 12 miles away from a U.S. city in Texas.

And this happens? We find out more. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Five friends set out from South Carolina to Mexico. Latavia Tay-McGee, a mom of six, wanted a tummy tuck. The surgical procedure to remove abdominal fat was scheduled with a doctor in Matamoros, just across the U.S.-Mexico border. One of the friends, Cheryl Orange, stayed behind in a Brownsville, Texas hotel room

since she didn't have the proper documentation across the border. The four Americans traveled to Matamoros from Brownsville on Friday in a rented white minivan. McGee was to be dropped off at a doctor's office and then the other three would return to meet Orange at the hotel until the surgery was over. But the Americans couldn't find the doctor's office and got lost. Okay, all of this over a tummy tuck? It's called medical tourism and I'm certainly, as the mother of twins, I'm not maligning anyone that wants a tummy tuck. I completely understand. But to cross the border, can I just introduce

an expert in this field? Dr. Stephanie Porras, plastic surgeon, well-known plastic surgeon, out of Orlando at porusplasticsurgery.com. Dr. Porus, thanks for being with us. Dr. Porus, can I tell you, before we poo-poo these four Americans who crossed the border to get plastic surgery, can I tell you what just happened in my family? My mother, who is 91, now 91, lives with me. And she didn't like dentures. Do you blame her? So she was going to get a mouthful of dental implants going into

her savings account. And I mean, it was expensive. And she said, you know what? I'm going to go to Mexico and get implants. I'm like, if you say no to her, then that's for sure what she's going to do. So I knew not to say no, but I've just literally written a book, including traveling abroad in big, huge all caps, especially Mexico. And the reason was here in the U S they were concerned that she didn't have enough bone to attach the implants, if that's making any sense, hardly any dentist would do it. She found one that was going to do it for an exorbitant amount, and I was suspicious. Why would only just one dentist do it? But luckily, I said, Mom, why would you go to Mexico? You won't be near a hospital. They don't have the same safety procedures as the U.S. does. Finally, we went to the dentist here,'t be near a hospital. They don't have the same safety procedures as the U.S.

does. Finally, we went to the dentist here. They're a specialty practice and it worked. It worked. She's beautiful teeth. But my point is my mother, who was the CFO of a company, played in the Georgia Symphony, the cello. She's brilliant. She was considering was considering this so first of all what is a tummy tuck let's just start with that yeah absolutely well that's a story that can resonate with many including myself and my family um so a tummy tuck is simply removal of the excess skin on the lower part of your tummy to kind of tighten things up and sometimes at the same time we fix the muscle your ab muscles underneath. And it's really great for, you know, the post moms of the world or even patients with massive weight loss or just people with that stubborn excess skin that they just can't get rid of. So wait a minute.

What do you do? Like cut the tummy open and then what? Suck out fat? Yeah. I mean, dummy it down for me because I know nothing about this except it really looks good when people get them. What do they actually do in a tummy tuck? So, yeah.

So, we're actually making an incision from about hip to hip depending on how much excess skin you have. Okay. Whoa, whoa. Right there. That's a no-go. But okay, go ahead. Hip to hip.

We don't physically go inside your abdomen, inside your belly. Everything is done on the skin level and just down to the muscle. But a lot of times, you know, when we have weight loss or changes with pregnancy, we actually get muscle separation. And a lot of people have sort of loss of core strength after this. And so we actually go in and we can tighten up the muscles at the same time we remove this excess skin. That gives you that more washboard abs look. If you've looked at pictures of before and afters of tummy tucks, a lot of people say, oh, well, the stomach actually looks a lot flatter. Not only is it missing skin, but it also looks flatter.

And that's why. Wow. Okay. looks a lot flatter not only is it missing skin but it also looks flatter and that's why wow okay uh dr stephanie porous you're hearing her speak she's the only female owned and operated plastic surgery practice in orlando in orlando is very big the only one and that's why we wanted her and we researched her very carefully because knock on wood nothing like a botched procedure and a bill of a tummy tuck has happened with this doctor but let me go to Dr. Jan Gorniak medical examiner Clark County office of coroners joining us out of Vegas, board-certified forensic pathologist Dr. Gorniak. That's not always true with tummy tucks. Not every plastic surgeon has as pristine of a record as Dr. Porras, much less in Mexico. What could go wrong with a tummy tuck?

Many things can go wrong, especially not being, like you said, in an accredited hospital facility, not the pristine conditions as sterile equipment. So anything can go wrong from an infection to bleeding, that they're not controlling the bleeding correctly, not giving them any antibiotics afterwards. I was reading putting bandages directly on the wound, the tissue dying, the person dying, there's so many complications from not being in a certified sterile environment. It's all about the money. I mean, I asked my mom, I said, Where did you get the idea? Not in an accusing way, the way I'm talking right now. I'm like, Mom, what led you to believe you should go to Mexico for a full mouthful of dental implants at age 90? And she

said, Google. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in heaven. And I was very skeptical. But then I found out, let me go to Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Nicole, did you know around 1.2 million Americans travel to Mexico for plastic surgery and other operations each year? 1.2 million Americans. And to trash these four Americans and go, and why would they do that? That's so crazy. There are brilliant people, accomplished people, educated people that do this nicole absolutely nancy and they're they're doing it because the cost can be 50 upwards to 80 percent cheaper across the border so they're leaving our country going there it's estimated that a million

californians have traveled into me Mexico to get cheaper prescription meds and medical procedures. So this is something that is on the rise because they're saving up to 80% off the cost of these procedures, but maybe not taking into consideration the bleak outcome. Yeah, cheaper isn't always better. You're right, because there was no follow up and no standard of care procedures in place. You die. And then what happens in Mexico? What? We're going to chase down the doctor in Mexico who has, if he or she is a doctor, has probably

moved to a new location and formed a new corporation under a different name. Blah, blah, blah. But what good is it? Chasing them for some money when your loved one is dead? And it happens. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, Cheryl McCollum is a forensic expert, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, and star of a new hit series, a podcast, Zone 7.

Cheryl, it's amazing to me, it's less than 15 miles away from a Texas city. It's less than 15 miles, but it's a whole different world. And one thing that people need to understand when traveling to another country is Mexico has the same level of warning for this particular city as we do for North Korea. You've got to do your research. Nancy, when you and I were traveling to Aruba with Beth Holloway, how many times did she warn people about if your friends don't have the right ID, if they don't have enough room on their credit card, if they don't know, you know, make sure their family knows how to reach them. This group had some issues. Ms. Orange couldn't even cross the border. She had to stay at the hotel because she didn't have the proper ID. Well, that tells you right there, they might not

have done proper research. Not having the correct ID, not doing the proper research. That's all well and good. But the whole endeavor goes sideways. Take a listen to our cut eight CBS. There are reports that the missing Americans may have been targeted by mistake. The FBI is now assisting with the investigation and a note of caution. The images here are graphic. This is the moment four Americans were kidnapped in Matamoros, Mexico, just across the border from Brownsville, Texas. They were traveling in this white minivan with North Carolina plates when they came under fire the video appears to show a woman forced into the back of a pickup truck by men with guns then to

others who appear hurt loaded next to her the Mexican president says the four were going to buy medicine less expensive in Mexico as hundreds of thousands of Americans do each year and that they could have been mistakenly targeted mistakenly targeted for thoseakenly targeted? For those of you just joining us, four Americans kidnapped at gunpoint just after they crossed the Mexican border. Their loved ones left behind wondering what happened. But there was one woman that lives to tell the story. Take a listen to our friends over at CNN. Latavia is my best friend.

She hit me up and asked me to join her, to accompany her in a trip to Brownsville, Texas for cosmetic surgery. And we began the road trip. We left out on Thursday and traveled to Texas. Once I got there, I was then informed that her procedure was being done across the border. In that event, we were just arriving in Brownsville, Texas at Studio 6, and I didn't have proper identification so I couldn't join her to go across to the border which left me back at the hotel.

When I told her I didn't have my ID with me she then they dropped me off at the hotel and said they would return in 15 minutes. That's why I was so worried and in fear because it didn't seem right. 15 minutes had gone by. They were not there. When they dropped me off at the hotel, I had got into the shower. I showered and I laid on the bed. I think I was exhausted from, you know, the long hours, the long ride. So I felt, I ended up falling asleep. I woke up and it was already five o'clock in the afternoon. So from nine to five, I went down to the office, the clerk in the hotel, and I asked him, had my friends come back or attempted to, you know, come in and out the hotel, come back to the hotel. And he told me no. The one woman that didn't have the right credentials to and out the hotel, come back to the hotel. And he told me no.

The one woman that didn't have the right credentials to get across the border, straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, a renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. You deal, well, one of your expertise is dealing with women's issues. To say a road trip makes it feel, it sounds like, hey, let's all go to Miami and jump in the pool and go to a club and have a nice dinner. It sounds so, I don't know, innocuous, so fun. Like, what could possibly go wrong? Nobody said at the get-go they were crossing the Mexican border for a tummy tuck. But you know what, Nancy? They probably,

everybody was expecting to have fun on this trip. And you know what? The woman was probably very excited because she had saved her little money. Little money? My rear end? It's a lot. Little money? It's cost thousands and thousands of dollars, even in Mexico. Well, she had still probably scraped together her money to have this done. I'm sure she was very excited to have a new look after having so many children. And you know what? And her friends were coming with her and they were all being supportive of her. And they were they were making a trip out of it. And they were expecting to have a very good time there.

And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy. I don't know about y'all, but I don't believe for a second that they were mistaken for drug cartel people with a white van with a North Carolina or South Carolina license plate on it. They were hit. This was a hit. Let's not call it something that it's not, okay? You know what? I think you're absolutely right, Dr. Angean.

Please don't limit yourself to matters of psychiatry. You can go ahead and just kick Nicole Parton straight out of her seat and take over. But, Nicole, don't leave just yet. To Dr. Stephanie Porras joining us, she is a very well-known and popular plastic surgeon out of Orlando at PorrasPlasticSurgery.com. Dr. Stephanie, I'm sure that you go through every single risk, post-op, pre-op, the whole shebang when you have a patient, correct? You think they're doing that down in Mexico? Absolutely not. I mean, I spend 90 minutes with my new patient consults and then we bring them back two to three weeks prior to their surgery to go over those risks again. So I highly doubt, especially considering that they've never seen a doctor, there was no mention

of any paperwork. I mean, truly, truly, I cannot imagine that anybody explained the risks of the procedure to them. And that's the scary part about this medical tourism thing is you just don't know the credibility, the ethics, the morals of that doctor or dentist on the other side that is gonna treat you. And it is scary. And you really gotta do your research.

And you know what, Dr. Stephanie Porras? side that is going to treat you and it is scary and you really got to do your research and you know what dr uh stephanie porras i i get it there are millions of cosmetic procedures done every day here in the u.s and they turn out just fine but i had a very dear friend you may know her name joan rivers that i knew in new york and was very, very kind to me and my children. And she went in for a minor procedure, very minor, and she's dead. And I'm so tempted to do this or that. And I think of Joan and I just say, hey, put on some more lipstick. Oh, we have a saying in surgery, surgery you know there's no such thing as simple

simple surgery just simple surgeons because we know that any cut even something one centimeter in size can leave you truly truly with some significant complications when it comes to surgery so there you're right to have that pause i mean there again uh things do happen and you know and then you know unfortunately when you travel to these other countries, you know, you come back to America, you know, we're sometimes left picking up the pieces and they can be devastating and they can be costly, even more costly than you could have imagined. And, you know, most importantly, deadly, right? Yes. Dr. Jan Gorniak joining me, medical examiner, Clark County in Vegas. Never a lack of business there, Dr. Gorniak. Dr. Gorniak, how many times, I mean, if you could just guess,

have you had to perform an autopsy on someone that had a botched plastic surgery? Thankfully, it's low. It's probably, you know, two or three in the past, you know, 17 years. But I'm glad that you asked me that because in your previous guest talking about the risk factors, when someone dies of a known complication, we call that natural. So, for example, when you go over the risk and they sign their consent and the risk of the surgery is infection and then they die from that infection that's a known complication we would call that a natural death got it i did not know that dr gorniak but you know what's so interesting is that this these americans that are kidnapped and the whole thing turns deadly

did not happen on a doctor's table there's no quack doctor's fault. And remember the friend who didn't make it over? She's sitting there looking at her clock. Hey, they were supposed to drop her off and they'd be back in 15 minutes. What happened? Take a listen now to more from Cheryl Orange. So I called my, I called my boyfriend. I called Tay's brother. And I said, something's not right. And I text my roommate. I said, something's not right. Nine o'clock got here. Twelve o'clock got here. Midnight. And then now we're into Saturday morning at 1023. It's literally a few minutes before checkout. I'm like, there's no way. I called the cops immediately. She called the cops immediately, the U.S. cops, but then stunning and shocking news developed. Take a listen to our friends at NBC.

New images from Mexican authorities show the gunmen trailing their white minivan minutes before they open fire. Additional images appear to show travel documents, luggage, debit cards, and cash that investigators found inside the vehicle. In the aftermath of the attack, Mexican authorities scrambled to several different hospitals for days trying to track down victims before finally locating all four inside this wooden shack. After speaking with one victim's family, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham promising, We're going to unleash the fury and might of the United States against these cartels. crime stories with nancy grace

you know uh cheryl mccullum joining me founder and director of the cold case research institute did you hear what the reporter said i i think that Dr. Angela Arnold is correct. They were trailing the perps, the kidnappers, the killers, were trailing these four Americans, a white minivan with a North Carolina tag plate on it, from the moment they crossed the border. Absolutely. Regardless of whether it's mistaken identity for Haitian drug dealers, or if it was just, we're going to kidnap some Americans. The issue is they were not only

targeted immediately, there were two or three vehicles following them. So this cartel, they're known as the Gulf cartel, was six or seven people deep following these individuals. There was no ransom. There was no effort to contact these individuals. There was no ransom. There was no effort to contact their family. There was no effort to contact Ms. Orange, who's just less than 20 miles away. So this was only for the purpose of kidnapping and murdering these people. But for what gain? If there's no ransom, it is still confounding.

But guys, we're learning more. It's not just a kidnap. Take a listen to our friend Simon Williams. They put out a request for information through an email and a phone number. And after some tips started coming in, they discovered the four South Carolina natives inside this wooden house right here at 830 in the morning on March 7th. It was about a 30-minute drive from the crash scene. Two of the victims were found dead and the other two were found alive. Eric Williams was taken to the hospital that you see right here.

Now, they made one arrest, a 24-year-old that you see right here. And then the two victims that were found alive were turned over to U.S. authorities at the International Bridge in Brownsville, Texas. They wrote here that the remaining two would be turned over after Mexican autopsy experts finished their investigation. Right, Mexican medical examiners. Okay, joining me now, a special guest, former federal prosecutor, legal commentator, and president of West Coast Trial Lawyers, author of Harvard to Hashtag. You can find him on Twitter at Nima Rahmani. Nima, thank you for being with us.

It's a real pleasure to have you on. Thanks, Nancy. Always happy to be on. Nima, I've got a question. How is this happening just 15 miles away, actually less than 15 miles away from a Texas city. I don't get it. And I also don't understand the motivation here. We have dead American bodies.

And I so far have heard nothing. What is this going to be more quote mexican justice just like um the drug lord that managed to get away with an underground motorcycle track remember him oh yeah who can forget uh el chapo famously escaping twice i mean it's happening, Nancy, because Mexico is unable or unwilling to control these cartels. And they've only increased in power over the years because they've gone from being middlemen transporting Colombian cocaine or Afghan heroin to controlling the entire production of purely synthetic drugs. It started with methamphetamine, now designers like Juicy. So now that they're controlling the entire production and distribution,

and there's so much value in these drugs, the violence is increasing. And the reason this is all happening is because the level of corruption, it could be the locals, federalists, even the Mexican military and politicians. The entire country is corrupt, and no one there is willing to take on these cartels

because all the politicians are in their pocket. You know what's interesting? Guys, with me, former federal prosecutor and author, Nima Rahmani. Nima, believe it or not, and I literally wrote the book, including an extensive section on safety while traveling abroad. And like the number one banner is don't go to Mexico. Believe it or not, as I was looking at spring vacation with the twins, I actually considered Mexico because it was so cheap. On the water, this beautiful resort, you have sites to go to of historical significance that I could drag the twins to, all sorts of water sports and fun things to do. I stopped myself mid-search. I'm like, what am I thinking? I just wrote this

book for Pete's sake. I'm not going to Mexico. And then right after that, we learn about these four Americans kidnapped, some of them murdered. I don't know if there's just a willingness to push away any suggestion that it's a bad idea to vacate in Mexico. But for some reason, people are still going in drugs. It's right on our border. Question to you, what do you believe, Nima, was the real motive for this? The cartel usually doesn't make mistakes like this. And I can tell you, I put more than 1,000 people in federal prison,

most of them Mexican drug and human traffickers, and I never got an apology. But going back to your original point, Nancy, I agree. I mean, spring breakers are going to Mexico. And one thing that needs to be discussed is now that a lot of Mexican cities are party destinations, places like Tulum, Cancun, has always been popular, there are a lot of drug deals going down in those cities. So it's not just drugs

that are coming north from Mexico into the United States. It's the cartels who want to control the very lucrative drug deals in these party cities as well. And that's why we're seeing an increase in violence there. Guys, this location, Matamoros,

is a level four do not travel. But for some reason, these four Americans seemingly go willingly and blind to the risks. Some of them to their deaths. Take a listen to Janet Shamley in CBS. Matamoros is under a level four do not travel advisory per the U.S. State Department. The same threat level issued for Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. The city of roughly half a million people has been home to warring factions of the Gulf drug cartel for decades.

The crimes are often unreported. Journalists fearing for their safety. Mario Sines is a community leader. We hear about the cartels, we hear about the shootings, but when it involves kidnapping or it involves Americans, it sends a very strong message to our community here in Brownsville and all along the border. U.S. officials are not identifying the Americans, citing privacy concerns. That $50,000 FBI reward is not only for the return of the

victims, but also for the arrest of the kidnappers. And there's more. Take a listen to Matt Rivers. This morning, this stunning image. Five men tied up near a truck in Mexico, blamed for the kidnapping of four Americans, allegedly turned over by the powerful drug cartel they belong to. A handwritten note on the truck's windshield claiming to be from the Gulf cartel saying, quote, we had decided to deliver those involved and directly responsible. The images obtained by ABC News from a source close to the investigation also include this photo of guns, ammunition and body armor found in that truck. Body armor, guns, ammunition, and body armor found in that truck. Body armor, guns, ammunition,

body armor, guns, ammunition. Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. These four Americans never had a chance. Body armor, guns, ammunition. They're going for a tummy tuck for Pete's sake. They didn't, Nancy. They never had a chance. And there's actually a video that one of them was taking, posting on their Facebook, and they're laughing and they're singing. They're driving down the road. We're headed to Mexico. We're having a fun trip. The next video they post, you can hear them trying to follow their GPS. The GPS says, make a left turn. They mistakenly make a right turn. And then the video shows that they're being followed by multiple cars. The gunfire starts into their minivan. They never had a chance.

There was no way for them to get out of this situation. Guys, I want to talk about the four people that were found in that wooden structure. Cheryl McCollum, they're referred to as four people, but they're not all four living people. No, Nancy, and the thing that's so sad is there is a video that their families have had to watch, I'm sure, and be made aware of. And the thing that strikes me about this video, before we talk about them, is this was broad daylight, Nancy. It's an open pickup truck in the back where they put the victims. So after shots are fired in the middle of this street, a busy street, because other cars after this has occurred are driving around them like it's a normal day. I'm just got to get to my destination.

So this tells you this was not a blitz attack. If you watch the kidnappers after the shooting occurs, they're walking. This is not a blitz quick in and out like a bank robbery. This is not like an assassination where they're hit and gone. This was something that the kidnappers were not afraid. They weren't afraid to show their face. They weren't afraid to take their time. They weren't afraid of being seen.

So this tells you this is a normal occurrence in this town. So when the State Department said, this isn't just a warning to be cautious when you go there. We're telling you do not go there. And sadly, this is what has occurred to these four innocent people and the ripple effect to their family, to their friends, to their community is going to be felt for a long time.

Take a listen to our Cut 11, guys, our friends at ABC. The men blamed for this horrific abduction caught on camera a week ago that left two Americans dead. On Thursday, state police finding them at the same spot in Matamoros where the kidnapping took place. The men now in custody, though authorities not confirming whether these five were involved. Multiple Mexican law enforcement sources tell ABC News the cartel note is believed to be legitimate.

But neither ABC News nor U.S. officials have been able to verify the authenticity of the letter's claims. Now we have Americans as dead over what we believe was a tummy tuck desire. I mean, Dr. Angela Arnold, even with covering criminal news all day long, I actually considered a spring break to one of those resorts in Mexico and then came to my senses and remembered everything I had researched and written in Don't Be a Victim. Why do we go so blindly? What happens to our common sense when it comes to vacation or in this case, a girl's road trip for a tummy tuck. You know, it's funny, Nancy.

We were talking about this this weekend. And apparently, even when people are planning their vacation, we know that when people are on vacation, they let their guard down. Okay, we've talked about that several times on your show. Apparently now, even when people are planning their vacation, they let their guard down. We were talking to somebody this weekend that told us, oh, yeah, I'm headed to Cancun next week. And I said, are you sure that's a good idea?

I'm not. And he just acted like it was no big deal. He is planning his great trip to Cancun. I immediately texted my little girl and I said, no trips to Mexico. I don't know where y'all are going for spring break, but it's not going to be Mexico. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. But Nancy, you also have to wonder how many people that are planning these trips to Mexico are even listening to the news or realize that there's a level four alert to go to some of these places. It's scary.

And Nancy, I'm telling you, you cannot convince people otherwise. I also believe that the more money people spend to go on a trip, because some places are very expensive in Mexico, and the more money people spend, the safer they think they are. And I don't agree with that at all. Out of the so-called medical tourists that left that day, two, Zendel Brown and Shade Woodward, just the real motive was, because I believe, Nima, if we never know the true motive, we will never be able to stop what happened to these two victims. I don't think we will, and this is why. And, you know, the cartel turning over these individuals,

I mean, that's par for the course for them. So whenever I would prosecute cartel members, and I would know they're cartel members because there's a small handful of attorneys that represent these folks. What they do is they plead guilty. They don't cooperate. They fall on the sword because the cartel is all about making money and protecting people at the top of the organization. The individuals at the bottom, the fall guys here, they're never going to talk because if they do, their families will be killed. Nima, Romani, I just keep thinking of all those photos of El Chapo having escaped Mexican prisons twice. And of course, he was a drug lord. I have no doubt that these perpetrators will have an opportunity to escape a Mexican prison. And that will be made possible and the wardens and the federales will just turn the other way and pretend they don't know oh there's no doubt i mean there's

no justice for these cartel members in mexico they're not prosecuted or if they are they miraculously escape from high security prisons it's just not going to happen unless they're arrested and extradited to the United States or if they're designated as terrorist organizations and the U.S. military gets involved. That's the only way we're going to see justice for these four. I mean, Nemat Romani, the cartels actually hang dead bodies off bridges to serve as a warning to other informants or turncoats. So who's going to go up against the cartel there? Nobody, unless you want to see somebody in your family hanging dead from a bridge. You can see they're incredibly violent.

And just like you said, there's hangings, there's decapitations, and they're done in a very public way to send a message and terrorize folks. They're no different from any other terrorist group. That's why Mexicans are deathly afraid of them. And obviously, we've lost some Americans, but let's not forget about the thousands and thousands of Native Mexicans and migrants who have been killed and kidnapped by the cartels. And yet we, the U.S. government, continue to prop up Mexico's government.

You know what? I know how to fight crime. I don't know what to do about U.S. politics. But I know this. These murders should not go unavenged. We wait as justice involves. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.