Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TV 'Empire' star hate crime a hoax??

Episode Date: February 19, 2019

Actor-singer Jussie Smollett is under increasing suspicion that he staged the alleged hate crime attack against him on a cold Chicago night last month. Nancy Grace looks at the case against the "Empire" star, which is about to be considered by a grand jury, with a panel including forensics expert Karen Smith, Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, Atlanta criminal lawyer Darryl Cohen, CrimeOnline reporter Ellen Killoran. Nancy also updates the search for missing Kentucky mom Savannah Spurlock with Cajun Coast Search and Rescue Commander Toney Wade. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Join Justice Nation. Go to crimestopshere.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The vast majority of people have been supportive and loving and understanding and then as time has gone on and that there's no you know it's two o'clock in the morning you're going to subway sub-zero is open 24 hours like people kill me when they say things like that because it's like subway is open 24 hours for a reason so that when you hungry at night and you ain't got no food you go to subway the the camera facing north how is that my issue it feels like if i had said it was a muslim

or a mexican or someone black i feel like the doubters would have supported me a lot much more a lot more. And that says a lot about the place that we are in our country right now. The fact that we have these fear mongrels, these people that are trying to separate us. And it's just not okay. It's just not okay. It's just not okay. And for all of the people, the next time that you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that it happened, and you say to them, well, why are you waiting until now?

Just remember that mine was reported right away. And look what has happened. You are hearing TV star Jesse Smollett talking to superstar Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC, talking about people who have doubted his story that he was attacked by, I believe it started as two white males. It changed at some point. Wearing red MAGA hats, I believe is how the story started. That also has changed. At 2 a.m. in the morning, coming out of a Subway sandwich shop.

According to Jussie Smollett, everyone knows him, big star on Empire. He was attacked. The perps threw acid on him, put a rope around his neck. It's my understanding he called his manager and not 911. When he walked back home, he then called 911. When police arrived, they found him sitting there and roughed up and the rope still around his neck. What is the truth? If this is the truth, who attacked him?

If it's not the truth, will the Empire Star go to jail for pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people, is he the one that's dividing people and again this is not about politics i think all politicians lie every single one of them this is about a potential hoax on police or a horrible hate crime i'm nancy grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel, forensics expert, and boy, do we need her now, Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction. Renowned criminal attorney, Daryl Cohen,

a former prosecutor joining me from Atlanta. Joining me from L.A., psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall. And joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com's Ellen Kaloran. E.K., let's just start at the beginning. Now, typically, when I'm hungry at 2 o'clock, I get something, anything, usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go back to sleep. All right? Usually, I don't feel like getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted, but let's just start with a 2 a.m. subway sandwich call.

Go. Well, it does appear that Jossie Smollett had arrived to the airport in Chicago late, so I don't think this was a matter of him waking up in the middle of the night and going out to the freezing cold to the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and he tells police that he's on his way home with his subway sandwich wait wait wait wait wait wait wait this is in chicago correct that's right yeah so how cold is it alan duke while you're out there sick sitting back with with your latte with a twist and a pinch of cinnamon and organic soy milk, blah, blah, blah. Hey, look that up for me if you don't mind, Alan.

What was the temperature exactly the day that Jesse Smollett, the Empire star, went out at 2 a.m. in the morning to get a Subway sandwich? Do I have Alan Deet with me or are you lounging somewhere off in the cyberspace? I'm looking at my phone now. Upsy, Upsy. What was the temp, Alan, Ellen Kaloran? We were pretty sure it was below freezing temperatures. This was during a very, very, very cold spell in Chicago. I don't know the exact internet.

Dr. Bethany, he must have been very hungry. Very hungry indeed. His tummy must have been growling at 2 in the morning because, you know, Chicago has that windchill factor. So if it's 20 degrees out, regular temperature, the wind starts blowing 40, 50 degrees below windchill. I did my undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two in the morning. Daryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney,

is gnashing his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this. But that's where I always like to start, Daryl, not with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is he wakes up, according to his story, at 2 a.m. And instead of getting leftover pizza out of the fridge or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be, he goes out in 40 below to get a Subway sandwich. See, I start right there. That's where I start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just think that's cray-cray.

Well, I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at 2 in the morning. Yep, they're 24-hour. Yeah, I love Subway, although I did have a mini boycott for a week after Jared was, you know, busted on child porn, I guess it was, their spokesperson. But long story short, Daryl Cohen, I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't think it has anything to do with it. I think what has to do with it is did it or did it not happen?

And as far as I can see from all of the evidence that's been presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to get it. Well, he's getting it all right. Okay, E.K., let's just go with the premise that it's true because the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being treated as a victim because he is a victim. Before we go one step further, if Alan Deak would ever establish the temperature, he's had like three minutes now.

Have you ever heard of this thing? It's called Google, G-O-O-G-L-E. You just punch it in and you put in temperature. I'm doing it right now. I'm just a little slow out here. Okay. He said it, Jackie. We did not say it. He said it, Jackie. We did not say it.

He said it. Guys, I want to thank our partner. I want to thank our partner making our program possible today. It's Blink, B-L-I-N-K. And here's the question. When do you want to spot a burglar? When he's outside casing your home or when he's sticking his foot through your kitchen window. You can ask John.

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Protect.com slash Nancy. Blink is an Amazon company. Blink. Thank you for being our partner. The phone. Mm-hmm. When did you, because as you said, it was an accurate account of the timeline, valuable information. When did you make that information available to the police?

We gave, we had to give the phone records, which they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Why? Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know what that's going to be to hand over my phone for, and honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been put out there.

You are hearing our friend, superstar Robin Roberts at ABC's GMA. She's awesome. And she is talking to Jussie Smollett, the Empire star. Everybody loves Empire. The Empire star, who claims that at 2 a.m. in the morning in Chicago, he decided he was hungry, goes out to Subway Sandwich, gets a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that throw acid on him or bleach. Wrap a rope around his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual.

He manages to get home and call police. He says he calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he called his manager and not 911. They aren't being clear why they want the phone, but they want the phone. So I think distantly i'm hearing the dingy ding ding of alan duke so alan do you finally have the temperature it was a balmy nine degrees below zero ouch okay this morning i made the twins and oh they hated it wear two coats to school because it was going to be 40 degrees.

This is nine below. Okay, back to you, EK. I'm sorry we haven't even gotten off the weather in the 2 a.m. sandwich call. Yes, Subway was open in answer to Daryl Cohen's question. Hold on real quick. Karen Smith joining me, forensics expert out of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollett's phone? Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged

victim or alleged perpetrators, the best way now in the world of social media and texting is to get the phone of the victim. You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and all those things and text messages especially. Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he didn't want released, but the police, they're not going to go into that. That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications between Jussie Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators. If there was any, if there was any, the phone call that he made to his manager, what time did he make it, where did he make it from, all of those questions have to be answered, and they have to have the device.

They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not how life works anymore. Not anymore. Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I just missed him. Daryl, at the time when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA. We did not have cell phone pinging. We did it old school, okay?

And we did it. Now, with the advent of cell phone, triangulation, GPS tracking, when he is saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is a problem to me. I don't have a problem with anything else he's saying, but when he says, fine, you know what? I don't have to explain why he's hungry at 2 a.m. or goes out in sub-zero, below freezing. That's a personal decision, but when you don't hand your phone over to cops, that is a big red flag. To hang with your private communications, if you have had bleach poured on you, beaten up, have a rope tied around your neck, out on the street,

you're handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right? I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Daryl? Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding out why he would call his manager, who the last time I checked was not a law enforcement person, was not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police? Any of us, any of us, whether we're an actor, whether we're a lawyer, whether we're an Indian chief, whatever we may be, we are going to call the police if something bad happens.

So, yeah, I've got a real problem with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having, I think right now he's having a real problem. You probably stayed up all night long coming up with that. He's not Jesse. He's Jesse James. Okay. You know what?

I'm going to just pass over that one. You know, it's a big deal to me, Daryl, and I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because you could get a jury eating out of your hand. You were always prepared. You knew the law. You knew the facts. You knew it all

when you went in front of a jury. And in this case, when you have a victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I don't care who he is. I don't care who he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care. But if you don't

cooperate with police, then that is a problem with me. What's your problem? It's a problem with me as well. I've got another problem with that. How in the world in the middle of the night 2 a.m nine degrees minus nine degrees it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual really and you well because he's a famous he's a famous tv star so here here's the thing this is another wrinkle in this to ellen kalor crimeonline.com hold on I'm going to write this down here's the thing so if they were targeting Jesse Smollett okay hold on they were targeting him and this was a hate crime how do they know to be outside the subway at 2 a.m. with bleach and rope? Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich

and they happen to have bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smollett, E.K., were they casing out his apartment? Why were they there at 2 a.m.? And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work out in his apartment building gym that know him, that have been extras on the set of Empire, or at least one of them has, that have been questioned and released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to do the attack. But first of all, I want to get to the theory.

Ellen Kaloran, so the perps were what? Waiting outside the Subway sandwich shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here? How did they know he was going to be getting a sandwich at 2 a.m. if he was the one targeted for a hate crime? Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was going to get a sandwich at 2 a.m., but Jesse has an Instagram account, and he's a very active social media user. And we learned over the weekend that he had been in New York during the previous days,

and he had flown back to Chicago that night, but his flight was delayed and he came in much later than expected. And he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his, on his Instagram account, talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to have had a little bit of information about what was going on with him that day. If they wanted to track his movements, they could to a certain degree through his social media activity. Okay, let me ask you this, EK, regarding Jesse Smollett. Now, that may make it make more sense that he was out at 2 a.m. Was his flight so delayed he was just getting home from the airport at, say,

1 o'clock and hadn't eaten? Do we know the timing of that? Because that makes, although the Chicago airport is full of food, but I don't know if it would be open, the food stands would be open that late at night. So if he gets off a plane from New York and he gets in midnight gets to his apartment at one he may very well be hungry and there is a theory out there uh that that is how he communicated to set up the attack through posting you know Twitter Facebook Instagram that these two brothers could actually see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, E.K., do we know what time he got in from his flight? We don't know exactly what time he landed or got back to his apartment, but it does,

we don't have a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first. But like you said, he has been away. It's the middle of the night. He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the flight for longer than expected. The food court could have been closed at the airport. So he went to the closest place that he could that he knew that would be open. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

What do you feel people need to hear the most from this story? I think that what people need to hear is just the truth. It's just the truth because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children to know how strong that they are, to know the power that they hold in their little pinky. It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jussie Smollett bruised but not broken and he's still processing the raw emotions. Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah, I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram

and DMs and things like that. It's like, but, you know, I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken. Sometimes maybe too outspoken. But it's who I am, you know? So I get the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to rub people the wrong way. In fact, the week before the attack, I get the idea of pissing people off, that you're gonna rub people the wrong way. In fact, the week before the attack,

police confirm a letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with threatening language and laced with powdery substance, likely Tylenol. Do you think there's a link between the letter and the attack? And you did mention it to the police right away about the letter. Absolutely. Just because on the letter it had a stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it with the words that said, Smollett, Jussie, you will die, black a**.

There was no address, but the return address said in big red, you know, like, caps, MAGA. Did I make that up too? You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC's GMA speaking with Empire star Jesse Smollett. And right now we know that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video that police believe committed the act, the attack on Jesse Smollett, have been apprehended, questioned, and released with no charges. What about these letters, Ellen Kaloran? What are the letters that he claims he got leading up to this attack, threatening letters? Yes, one, exactly, One week before the night of the alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained direct death threats, homophobic, and racist language. letter that are coming up more recently in the discussion around this case. One of those is that some unidentified sources who have access to the set and may even work with Jussie have told CBS

News that he was unhappy about the response to the letter and the threat that he got, that he felt that it wasn't taken seriously enough and that he was angry and that they're questioning, did he set up this, orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that? The other thing that we're learning, and again, these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources who are talking to news outlets. But we're learning that the letter was made out of, and you can see it in the photos, the letter was written sort of like a ransom type of letter with cutout letters from a magazine. And we're hearing that when investigators went and raided the

apartment of these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved in this attack, they took away a magazine. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Dr. Bethany Marshall, are these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha Christie and Hercule Poirot, like in the movies where you cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting. And also, we are learning for sure that in a follow-up visit by investigators, Smollett says the attackers mentioned something about this is MAGA country, which relates back to the Trump campaign.

Right. So the whole situation is fluid. But I can tell you this. Remember the runaway bride? when she lied about getting kidnapped? She got to cut grass and do community service out in the public for I forgot how long. Other people have done jail time, hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of an investigation. Because who knows what crimes were really happening at the time of a hoax and instead of dealing with the real crime cops are out spending thousands and thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a fake call and this one if it is

fake is a whopper now what do you make dr make, Dr. Bethany Marshall? The studio, the Empire studio, had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told. But according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to the letters. Does that mean, what, they didn't get enough attention? What does that mean to you, Dr. Bethany? Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes where we find out it's a hoax in the end. And I don't know if this was a hoax or not, but in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to do with crime victims is to find out if they're doing something called malingering. Malingering is when you make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in 20% of criminal cases, malingering is involved in some way. 20% of PI

cases, as you can imagine, malingering, 30% of disability cases. The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get some kind of reward or attention, or I'm going to get out of some consequence. Like, you're not going to send me to jail. I'm not going to have to go to the military. So what's so interesting to me about this story is the exaggerated, two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope around his neck.

Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No, he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light, he keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to know clearly what happened. So if I have a patient in my practice who's malingering, you know, Dr. Marshall, I was, I don't know, my boss keeps yelling at me, I want to bring a lawsuit. You know, I'd say, well, what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy details. You know, is it true, E.K. Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, that Smollett had been in New York to audition for a role in the play that is very oddly similar to his alleged attack? What do we know about the play for which he was auditioning he was at a reading actually it wasn't an audition i believe he's already part of the cast but that's what he was doing in new york he was flying back to he was flying back to chicago from new york and

he was in new york because he was doing a reading of the script of this play. And the character in the play is a person of color. It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the case of the fictional character. But he is someone who, the character is someone who has been the victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports that we're reading, have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly committed against him, just within hours of him arriving back to Chicago after the shooting. The same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs. If this is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also, Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former

prosecutor in felony court, that he, Smollett, did not call police. It was a close associate about 40 minutes after the attack, according to the New York Times, and I think that was his manager. He did not call police, and when cops got to his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck. Help me. Well, I can't help you, Nancy, because it sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay attention to his voice? This is a guy that's reading a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail. Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was attacked and this is terrible,

but he has a noose around his neck 40 minutes later. Really? This is a guy who was, look, many times, Nancy, people equate stars on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy is reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps. He saw a way to make more money perhaps, but what he didn't see is that he's not as bright as he believes himself to be. So he's not Shakespeare. Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar. Brothers Ola and Abel Osindaro captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives their role in the reported January 29th attack on actor Jussie Smollett, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smollett THEIR ROLE IN THE REPORTED JANUARY 29TH ATTACK ON ACTOR JUSSIE SMOLLETT ACCORDING TO MULTIPLE SOURCES. THOSE SOURCES SAY SMOLLETT PAID THE

BROTHERS THOUSANDS TO CARRY OUT A STAGED ATTACK. IN ATTACK SMOLLETT REPORTED TO POLICE SAYING TWO MEN SLINGING RACIAL AND HOMOPHOBIC SLURS, DOWSING HIM IN BLEACH AND PLACING A ROPE AROUND HIS NECK. THE OSINDAROS WERE ARRESTED AND

LATER RELEASED BY CHICAGO POLICE. SIMULTANEOUSLY THE FBI IS LOOKING INTO A THREATENING LETTER. THE FIREFIGHTERS SAY THE FIREFIGHTERS WERE ARRESTED AND LATER RELEASED BY CHICAGO POLICE. THE FIREFIGHTERS WERE ARRESTED AND LATER

RELEASED BY CHICAGO POLICE. SIMULTANEOUSLY THE FBI IS LOOKING INTO A THREATENING LETTER. THE FIREFIGHTERS WERE ARRESTED AND LATER RELEASED BY CHICAGO POLICE. THE FIREFIGHTERS WERE TAKING A LOOK AT THE FIREFIGHTERS AND THEY FOUND A STICK FIGURE ROLLING ON THE LEACH AND PLACING A ROPE AROUND HIS NECK. THE OSINDAROS WERE ARRESTED AND LATER RELEASED BY CHICAGO

POLICE. SIMULTANEOUSLY, THE FBI IS LOOKING INTO A THREATENING LETTER SMOLLETT RECEIVED JUST DAYS BEFORE THE REPORTED ATTACK. THE WORDS PIECED

TOGETHER BY MAGAZINES. AND A DRAWING DEPICTING A ROPE AROUND A STICK FIGURE'S NECK. DAYS LATER, SMOLLETT SAID THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM DURING THE REPORTED ATTACK. DURING A RAID OF THE BROTHERS' HOME LAST WEEK, ONLY CBS 2'S CAMERAS WERE ALLOWED INSIDE. AMONG THE ITEMS INVESTIGATORS WALKED AWAY WITH, A MAGAZINE, A PIECE OF PAPER ALONG WITH A WRITING SAMPLE, AND A WALLET WITH STAMPS.

MULTIPLE SOURCES SAY SMOLLETT WAS UPSET THE THREATENING LETTER DIDN'T RECEIVE A BIGGER REACTION. THAT'S WHEN HE ORCHESTRATED THE ATTACK WITH THE BROTHERS. THE ROPE USED, BOUGHT BY AT LEAST ONE OF THE BROTHERS, PURCHASED AT THE DIRECTION OF SMOLLETT. SOURCES SAY THE BROTHERS ARE FRIENDS WITH SMOLLETT, OLA PLAYING AN EXTRA ON EMPIRE. LAST WEEK IN A TELEVISED INTERVIEW, SMOLLETT HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT THE SCUFFLE WITH HIS ATTACKERS. He said, this MAGA country punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back. I noticed the rope around my neck

and I started screaming. THE BROTHERS WHO WERE FIRST SEEN IN GRAINY SURVEILLANCE VIDEO NOW COMING INTO FOCUS. SPEAKING EXCLUSIVELY WITH ME OVER THE PHONE SAYING, WE ARE NOT RACIST, WE ARE NOT HOMOPHOBIC AND WE ARE NOT ANTI-TRUMP. WE WERE BORN AND RAISED IN CHICAGO AND ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS. YOU ARE HEARING OUR FRIEND AT CBS racist. We're not homophobic and we are not anti-Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago

and are American citizens. You are hearing our friend at CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar reporting about what Chicago police took when they raided the brothers' home. Claiming that Smollett was upset that his threatening letters did not get the attention he had assumed that they would. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. If this is a hoax, it's a whopper. People that make false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually land behind bars.

If they're regular mortals like all of us, if you're a Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of Empire. To Ellen Kalor on CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter, where we have all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about these two guys? Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American. That's right, Nancy. They were born and raised in Chicago. The reason I believe that people are calling them Nigerian is because they, for reasons that have not been

explained and I do not understand, apparently flew to Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at the airport. That has not been explained why that happened or if it has anything to do at all with the alleged assault. And I also wanted to point something else out since we're talking about the rope and the phone. A lot of the things that have come up in recent days really don't look good. Like, they look very suspicious, and things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in this story. But a couple of things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to hand over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure.

He's a celebrity who has received threats before. Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, have you ever been attacked at 2 a.m., had a rope tied around your neck and bleach poured on you? Because if you have, I'd like to interview you about that. Okay, because if that happens to you and your life is in danger and cops say, we need your phone, you go, here, whatever. I mean, when a cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like to say, whatever.

Here, take it all. Okay, just please leave my children behind. Whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay? Nobody should be above the law. And if they want your phone, give your phone. But you know what?

That's you, and this is me. So go ahead with your analysis okay but what i wanted to also say is that i believe he did agree to hand over the phone records whether he's done that or not yet we don't know about the rope um what we heard in the in the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to see what had been done. That was the explanation for the rope being left. You know what? I hear you. And he could have claimed that he did not want his DNA, his, I don't think you get prints off rope, but any of his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin any evidence on the rope.

So I can understand that. Now, it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records, but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ, our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them. Daryl Cohen, are you sitting down? The cops rejected them saying that they

were so heavily redacted that they were basically of no use. What about handing over your phone records to cops and you redact them? Oh, come on, Nancy. This is absurd. If you are a victim of a crime, first of all, I want to go back to the noose. If I've got a noose around my neck, oh my God, I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I possibly can because I am freaked out. This guy was not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking

for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire, but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking, living soap opera. That's all he is. The whole reason they got interested in the phone records to start with is that Smollett said to cops he was on the phone with his manager at the time of the attack and that the manager says he heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown. And they want to authenticate that that call was, in fact, made. They asked Smollett for the records about two weeks before. They got a PDF file.

Now, police also say there are cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a 60-second gap in the video where you don't see the Empire Star. So there's no video of the actual attack i've looked at shots of the video and you see two persons of interest in surveillance footage now this is what is telling to me dr bethany marshall these two guys that everybody calls nigerians they're americans let's be very clear on that who take off to nigeria the day after the attack. They work out in his building, at least one of them does, in the gym in Smollett's building, his apartment building. One of them has been an extra on the set.

They're totally buff. They look like they're bodybuilders. I've seen their photos, and I never see them wearing a shirt. I mean, not judging, but they are totally buff. So you can see they work out all the time. They take off for Nigeria the day after the attack. They come back. They're met by the cops. They are questioned. They are released, Dr. Bethany. No charges. And after meeting with them, cops say they want to re-interview Jussie Smollett. What does that say to you, Dr. Bethany? Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now $3,500 richer because they just got paid for the attack, right?

And some people do not think ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into a crime. So they may have thought, no big deal. We'll rough them up. We'll put a rope around his neck. We'll take a vacation. We'll come back. This will have all blown over. But you know what? They talked to the police. And as I was saying about malingering, the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent. And so the police are going to look to Jesse. And I would wonder, what is Jesse's reward in all of

this? When people malinger symptoms, you know, I was roughed up, I was a victim, they do it for a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants to prove to the EP of the show that he is the center of a national news situation? Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere. And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins to make sense. Well, I've been looking and researching and following and asking questions. According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene, cops want to speak to Smollett again.

Based on, quote, new evidence, they learn from the two friends, the two guys. Now, according to CBS 2, sources told them that Smollett paid the two guys $3,500 to stage the attack. But let's take a listen to our friends at CBS. This is Jeff Glore talking about... Wait, are we playing one or two? I'm sorry. Okay, hold on. This is CBS This Morning anchor John Dickerson.

Take a listen to what they see on the video. Police are looking for two potential persons of interest in a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say a surveillance camera took these images of the two men on the night Smollett says he was beaten. The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation. Investigators are hoping the fbi can enhance those images to provide some distinguishing details now the men are not considered suspects

but the police do want to know who they are and what they were doing when smollett says he was attacked sources tell cbs news the two figures seen in these dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench when Jussie Smollett walked past them across the street. They then appear to get up and follow him, although the three of them are never seen on camera together. About a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smollett returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck. The rope was untied but still on his neck when police arrived 45 minutes after he says he was attacked. You're hearing our friends at CBS. So

let me close with this thought. When I was a new prosecutor, I worked on one of the very first hate crimes I had ever seen. We didn't even call them hate crimes then, murders of black gay men across the city of Atlanta. That case, and I wrote the appeal for it and argued it to the Georgia Supreme Court, was held. That conviction was held. Gay black males all over the city of Atlanta victimized simply because their color and their sex orientation. If this is a hate crime, let the perps rot in hell. If not, Jussie Smollett, you've got some explaining to do. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. The search is on for a missing mom.

Savannah Spurlock, just 23 years old, vanishes. It's the first night she goes out after giving birth to infant twins. Her first night out, she goes to a restaurant bar. She's seen leaving. I think she looks incoherent or dazed as she leaves. Join me right now. Commander of the Cajun Coast Search and Rescue, Tony Wade is with me.

Commander Wade, please tell me about the search for Savannah Spurlock. Well, sadly at this point, all of the search and rescue teams have pulled out. Richmond PD is continuing with some search efforts. You know, we're kind of all on standby at this point for some new leads and new teams. Sadly, the case is just, you know, the search efforts. You know, we're kind of all on standby at this point for some new leads, some new teams to go into case Saturday.

The case is just, you know, the search efforts have gone cold with just no new information coming in at all. You know, Savannah Spurlock goes missing that evening, her first night out after giving birth to twins. She also has a 4-year-old son, Noah. You know, what's interesting to me, to Tony Way, commander of the Cajun Coast Search and Rescue, Tony, is that we've got her on video leaving with two guys. Turns out there's a third one in the car with her. They go to a rural area, a home.

The guys say she was there, but she left at some point the following morning. They can't tell us what time. They can't tell us how she left. She didn't have her car. It was still parked at the restaurant. That's where the trail runs cold. Tell me about your efforts with me, Commander Tony Wade of the Cajun Coast Search and Rescue. You know, that does a very disturbing ghost that she just disappeared like she did. Her phone had been turned off

at about 8.30 that morning, so we know she didn't call for a ride. You know, we put extensive search hours into the area surrounding the rural area where she was and it just turned up

no evidence whatsoever. It is very disturbing at this point. We just don't know how she left, if she left or on her own. We know she didn't leave walking. Temperatures were cold.

She wouldn't dress for it. And a lot of mystery surrounding that portion of it is to ask exactly what time she left her on her own. We know she didn't leave walking. Temperatures were cold. She wouldn't dress for it. Had a lot of mystery surrounding that portion of it as to exactly what time she would have left the home. No witnesses saw her leave or anything else. People at the home said she woke them up, wanted to know where she was, and then they told her and they went back to sleep and said when she woke up, she was gone.

I think there's possibly a lot of holes in that story. Oh, there's a lot of holes in that story. But with nothing to go on, the police have to rely on people like you, Commander Way, to try to find some trace of the missing mom. Savannah Spurlock, if you have information, please dial 859-624-4776. Repeat, 859-624-4776. We're talking about a beautiful young mom who just gave birth to twins, Savannah Spurlock. As Commander Tony Wade has just told us, a search group heading back home after spending hours and hours in Girard County searching for the Richmond mother of four.

They have found no sign i guess the good news from that is they know where she is not tony wade so by process of elimination what does that mean to you well you know we haven't given up hope that she's maybe out there alive somewhere you know we haven't found any evidence to say she's not you know and we've cleared we've cleared miles and miles and miles of land trying to turn up any shred of this. And like you said, we know where she is not. We just don't know where she is. We're frantic wanting a new tip or a new lead to come in

that we can give us a search direction. We'll go right back. The Richmond Police Department has worked hand-in-hand with us since we were contacted to help with the case. I think they're doing an outstanding job, but it's just everything is running into dead ends, and it's frustrating to everybody involved. There's just no new information coming in, and we know somebody out there knows something. You know, we just urge any smallish to call us and maybe just what we need. Go to CrimeOnline.com and see the video of Savannah Spurlock as she leaves that restaurant that night with two guys.

We find out a third was in the car. It reminds me so much, Commander Tony Wade, of when Natalie Holloway got in the car, leaving Carlos and Charlie's bar down in Aruba, never seen again. Now, these guys, she did not know them before that night, did she, Tony? Well, we haven't been able to establish for a fact that she didn't know them, but during the FaceTime conversation with her mom, her mom didn't recognize any of the individuals, and she stated that she knew pretty much all of Savannah's friends.

So we haven't come to the point, conclusion, to prove in one way or the other that she didn't know them priorly. If she did, I don't think they were extremely close friends. Every indication says that she met him that night. That's still one of the many questions that we have in this case. You know, another thing that bugs me, Commander Wade, is that if you look at the photo that we have on CrimeOnline.com, it looks like she's got her pocketbook on her shoulder, but it's hanging wide open.

To me, she looks cold. She doesn't have a coat on. She looks disheveled. And more than that, in her face, she looks disoriented, like just a blank stare. I'm wondering if something was slipped in her drink. Commander Wade, how does it affect you when you have to leave a search without finding the person? That's extremely difficult on us. You know, if we can locate something or even some evidence, then we can leave knowing that, you know, we helped them somewhere in the case. And leaving with this many unanswered questions and nothing, it's really hard on us because we get home and

we beat ourselves up over it. Did we do our job correctly? Did our dogs key on something that we missed? We second-guess ourselves really, really hard. It's hard on us. It really is. It causes a lot of grief and a lot of upset that we just don't know. And we go out to find answers and we can't find any. It's troublesome to us. If you have information on missing Savannah Spurlock, mother of four, dial 859-624-4776. Thank you, Commander Wade. This is an iHeart Podcast.