Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Two cold-blooded killers dramatic prison escape, go on the run! Inside job?

Episode Date: April 7, 2020

Joyce Mitchell, a seamstress at Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, New York, develops relationships with two convicted killers. When inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, are discovered missing during bed check, that relationship is revealed. How did she help them to escape?With Nancy Grace today to discuss: Jim Elliott - Attorney with Butler Snow, legal counsel for various Georgia municipalities and other governmental entities. www.butlersnow.com Steven Lampley - Former Detective, Author “Outside Your Door” www.stevenlampley.com Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga. Alexis Terezchuck - Investigative Journalist CrimeOnline  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. All of us here at Crime Stories are working every day to stay in touch with you and bring you the very latest in crime and justice news all around our country. And now our friends at Sirius XM are making it even easier for you to get crime stories while so many of us are doing our part, staying home and staying safe. This is what they're doing. If you don't already have a subscription at SiriusXM, here's a chance to listen for free.

Listen for free. Just go to your app store, download the app for SiriusXM, make up a login name, and you're in to listen for free. Listen through your phone, your computer, Alexa, Google Home, Sonos, any smart TV, so many other devices, but those are a few of them. Don't miss Crime Stories every weekday at high noon eastern on Sirius XM 111, the Triumph Channel. Free listening for you runs until May 15. Sirius XM, thank you for letting our listeners listen for free and for being our partner. How did two convicted killers manage to dig their way out of one of the most rock-solid CI correctional institutes known, Clinton and Dannemora? How did they do it?

How did they not get caught? Did they have inside help? Two convicted killers. One, a cop killer. The other gets his victim, drives him around in the trunk of his car, then snaps his neck with his bare hands. These are the two that managed to emerge from Clinton's CI blocks away from the jailhouse. How did they do it? And what was left in the aftermath? I'm Nancy Grace. How do two convicted murderers manage to walk free?

We have heard of daring escapes in the past. Ted Bundy managed to do it. Did they do it? And did they have help from the inside? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Jackie, let's kick it off. Here's ABC News correspondent Gio Benitez. Be on the lookout for two escapees from Clinton County Collection Facility.

Tonight, the first convicts to ever break out of this maximum security prison are on the run two days and counting. 34-year-old David Sweat and 48-year-old Richard Matt, both convicted murderers, now gone without a trace from the Clinton Correctional Facility in upstate New York. They could be literally anywhere. We're leaving no stone unturned. Reminiscent of the Hollywood blockbuster, The Shawshank Redemption. Officials say the men were last seen in their adjoining cells at 10.30 p.m. Friday night for bed check and reported missing at bed check the following morning at 5.30 a.m., leaving this note behind, reading, Have a nice day. In their empty beds, clothing was arranged to make it look like someone was sleeping. You know, the thought

of an escape from behind bars for everybody to bellow, be on the lookout, is scary if you've ever actually been behind bars and met the people who are there, specifically convicted killers. I've sat in court many a time when I would be trying a murder case or even a serial murder or a spree murder case and look over at the defendant, of course, not while the jury was there, didn't want them to see that, and wonder, do they have any idea of the wake of pain they have left behind them, like a boat going across a lake, and you see the wake behind the boat. It goes on and on and the ripple effects seem to never end. Then I would look them in the eye, not every time, but so often they would look back at me and it would be as if I were looking at a frog or a snake, a cold-blooded creature that seemingly

had no emotion or feelings at all. That's just who escaped from the Clinton CI. Two convicted killers. With me, an all-star panel. First of all, renowned lawyer joining me, attorney with Butler Snow Legal Council for various municipalities, Jim Elliott. You can find him at butlersnow.com. Stephen Lampley, former detective author of Outside Your Door. Well, that's not enough to scare you. I don't know what will. Stephen Lampley.com. Professor Flood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. Renowned psychiatrist joining me from the Atlanta. Boy, do I need a shrink. But straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative journalist Alexis Tereszczuk. Alexis, they thought, especially when you live around a CI of one of the,

I don't mean a low-level dope addict or a low-level dope dealer. There are low-level dope dealers. They sell maybe one five hits i'm not talking about a drug lord theft a stolen car but blah blah blah i'm not talking about that alexis you've got a baby boy what if you had a home and out in a rural area and suddenly they build a CI a mile from you and you're stuck. And then two convicted murderers escape, broke out. I do. And it is absolutely terrifying to guard. And that's the thing. And these guys are not, as you said, low level criminals. They're not like a little drug dealer who sold, you know, a small bit of drugs. These guys are murderers.

In fact, one, David Sweat, is a cop killer. He murdered a police officer. Alexis Tereszczuk, David Sweat, and Richard Matt. Let's just start with that. Who are these guys? So David Sweat, he was really young. He was got in a shootout with a police officer. Wait, are you trying to make me feel sorry for him because he's young, got in a, in a shootout with a police officer. Are you trying to make me feel

sorry for him because he's young? He's a cop killer. Well, I was just saying that when he was so young to be so evil, you know, this guy was 23 years old when he murdered a police officer. Now, hold on just a moment. Just, just, just a moment. Let's just for argument's sake. When I was 23, I had already been the victim of violent crime, went back to undergrad to make up for all the time that I lost when I dropped out of school after the murder, got through law school, putting myself through with three jobs, not easy. But let's think about somebody else, my dad. He had already lied to the U.S. Navy and was on the other side of the world fighting for his country.

Let's see. My mom at 23. She probably already had one of us. 23. Hey, Joseph Scott Morgan, what were you doing when you were 23? Working in the morgue and volunteering in the morgue. Boy, I thought I had it bad. That gives you an idea of how insane I am.

I was doing it for free. He was just. Jackie, what were you doing when you were 23? I'm almost afraid to ask. I was at CNN. Right. Working around the clock at CNN. So tell me something. I don't care that he's 23. He's a cop killer. That's all I need to know

about him. What about the other one? Alexis? Richard Matt is... He was convicted of killing his boss. It was his boss. He tortured him. You were right.

He was in the trunk. Did you say snap something? He snapped his bones. I mean, you just kind of rushed right over that. You know, I think you may have a future as a defense lawyer, Alexis Teresak, if you ever get tired of the reporting business. You kind of like, it just trilled off of your tongue. He snapped his victim's bones. Tell me exactly what he did to his boss. He tortured him. He

physically dismembered him. He cut him into little pieces. He snapped his bones and he did this, the bone snapping, he literally physically did this with his own hands. He was so enraged when he killed him. And that's who escapes the Clinton CI. But how did they do it? Again, Gio Benitez. All they used was the hacksaw blades to get out. So that would make sense on the length of time that it took them to do it. By February, he has methodically cut through the steel wall of his cell, 3 1⁄8 of an inch thick,

and continues carving through the wall of his next-door neighbor, too, Richard Matt. Were they clean holes? They were. There's an air duct vent in each of these cells. They moved it, and they're large enough for a person the size of Matt or Sweat to get through. And so behind those cells, there's some sort of corridor, right? A catwalk.

Yeah, it's a catwalk that goes through the length of the back of the cells, and there are four different tiers. Night after night, after guards finish bed checks, Sweat freely wanders those catwalks, descending into the bowels of the prison. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. Jim Elliott, attorney, veteran trial lawyer, practices in multiple jurisdictions. Jim Elliott, I'm sure that you've been in plenty of jails like myself. This sounds like a movie.

I thought they were impenetrable. Absolutely. That's certainly what we all think. And so how in the world do you get the kind of equipment in there to make that happen? But the thought of this guy, and this is how the two are connected. David Sweat and Richard Mack, they shared a wall. That's how they were wall buddies. One in this cell, one in that cell.

So for one to saw through the wall, the other had to be part of the scheme. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking right now about one of the most notorious breakouts ever heard of. And the two that break out, they're convicted killers. One a cop killer and one who tortured his victim, literally snapped his neck with his bare hands, carried him out around in a trunk before he killed him. These are the two that could be sticking their foot through your back window. Let's take a listen now to ABC's Gio Benitez. By May, as the weather warms, the blistering steam is shut off. Meanwhile, the stocky Matt goes on a crash diet,

so he's skinny enough to slither through their escape route. To get through the pipe, which was less than two feet in diameter, and to get through the wall that they broke, he had to lose weight. And even then, Sweat says he had difficulty getting through. By that night in June, it's all systems go. They execute their plan to perfection. They come out of the pipe near a manhole cover and emerge on the street a block from the prison. They leave behind a twisted calling card, this tiny note.

Have a nice day. And there's that taunting message they left behind. Obviously to us. So there you are hearing information gleaned from other inmates that seemingly knew about the breakout. And we now learn that they dieted. You know who that reminds me of? Stephen Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door at StephenLampley.com.

It reminds me of Ted Bundy, who escaped not once, but twice. And he kept Lou fit through, I think it was a lighting fixture. Do you remember that, Lampley? I do, I a lighting fixture. Do you remember that, Lampley? I do. I do, Nancy. And this guy, these two gentlemen that broke in, my name was already Slender. And the older gentleman, of course, was the weight problem, so to speak, and had to lose weight in order to get through the air duct in his cell.

That's my understanding. And think about this, Steve. At night, after they had sawed through, and they couldn't escape down that heat duct because it would burn them. They couldn't go down it. They had to wait until the spring, until May, before they could make their escape. And that's exactly what they did. Heat ducts are only about that wide to hacksaw through their cell walls, get into the heat duct and go all the way down. And for weeks on end, maybe even months, they had been going through the ducts at night and going down in the bowels of the prison, just walking around on the interior of the prison. Wow. Okay. So they make their way out to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, the other inmates that may have known about the

escape plan, but they never said a word. What is that mentality? Never to say a word. Well, do we know that they knew about the escape? Well, from what? And maybe they were threatened. I think you just hit the nail on the head because life behind bars isn't anything like life on the outside. If you snitch, as my son always says, snitches get stitches, you'll die behind bars, especially if you snitch on a convicted killer, Dr. Angela. And these guys are mean, aren't they? They aren't letting anything get in their path, are they?

No, they're not. So how does it progress from there? How did they manage to make their way out? We also heard that they had a hacksaw, that they had a hacksaw, that they had a hacksaw behind bars. Take a listen now to ABC's 2020. Owner John Stockwell and his Black Lab dolly were checking up on the cabin when they saw signs of unwanted activity. And challenged any of the occupants by saying, who's in there? You better come out.

Who's in there? You need to come out now now whoever was on the back deck fled down the bank and he could tell that because he could hear the crashing through the brush inside Stockwell finds more signs that something's amiss a misplaced coffee pot a missing shotgun that had been hidden between two mattresses a map ripped off the wall. Stockwell quickly alerts authorities who find more evidence that Sweat is the careful criminal and Matt the wild card. Sweat had wanted to leave.

Matt's position was no sense in leaving just yet and if somebody intrudes upon our occupancy at the cabin, frankly, we're ready to deal with them. We now have a shotgun. Yep, we could kill them, we could take them hostage. Sweat prevailed with the logic of let's get out of here. You were hearing our friend over at ABC 2020, that was Lindsay Janis. So, Alexis Tereshuk, to add more to the drama,

the two guys have very, very different personalities. What can you tell me about this mountain cabin? So the mountain cabin, these cabins are owned by the locals. They're very deserted. But you know what is in all of these mountain cabins? A lot of weapons and a lot of ammunition. These people stock, I don't want to use the word stockpile because I feel like that sounds like it's something nefarious. These people all legally, the owners of the cabins legally owned all of these weapons and they legally owned ammunition, but they kept it up there because these are rural areas. All of these cabins had a lot of weapons in them.

They had maps of the area. They had food. These were perfect hideout spots for these guys. And they were going from, you know, breaking in cabin to cabin, stealing guns, stealing bullets, stealing, eating their food, sleeping in their beds, but trying to really keep a low profile, like not turning on lights or anything like that, because they didn't want to alert the authorities because the authorities knew they were up there. They just had to zero in on which cabin they were in. You know, what's what I'm thinking about right now to Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining me out of Atlanta. Interesting to me that the owner of that cabin, and he knows

somebody's been there. You know what's interesting? Our little idiosyncrasies. For instance, if I were to walk into the kitchen in the morning and see a chair out of place or a knife, a butcher knife sitting out or a utensil. The least little things were really creatures of habit. And that's what really led the investors of the teapot that had been moved. Isn't that interesting, that one little detail? Dr. Angela? Well, I think that we all have a little touch of OCD in all of us. I don't know if I'd go that far, but go ahead. Well, I mean, I think it works well for some people,

and I also think that there could be a little bit of paranoia, different levels of paranoia in the people who own these cabins that are full of ammunition and guns. I'm not going to come out against hunters. I'm not a hunter myself. I don't like guns at all. I hate guns. To me, every gun looks like a rattlesnake.

But in my mind, that's in the Constitution, and I'm not going to mess with the Constitution. And, you know, I disagree with you, Dr. Angela, and I know I'm getting in deep water here because you're the MD, I'm just a JD. But the reality to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, you have analyzed a million crime scenes. The reality is that we are creatures born of millions of years, millions of years of evolution. And we look around a room and see a million things at once and we process it. So when you walk into a room and you see, I have a special teapot, Joe Scott, I have a special teapot. And when I'm in New York, catch this, I point it toward home. When I am in Georgia, I point it toward New York. It's just a little idiosyncrasy.

I don't know, Nancy, am I BOCT? And this is the interesting thing. It's also heightened by this guy. You're referring to this as his cabin. This is, you know, for me, I love going to a cabin. This is your happy place. This is the thing that's kind of imprinted on your brain. You're thinking, I'm going to go here and escape in a good way. I'm going to forget everything. And you're anticipating this moment. You walk through the door and it's not as if it's not it's not in the condition in which you left it okay wait wait wait jose scott let me use a different example okay forget the teapots pretend you didn't hear that that's gone it's gone erase okay this studio i know that Jackie, every day when she leaves, she shuts the door and she cuts the lights off. She does a million other things, too.

If I walked in here and a light was on, I would know something was amiss. Because that's just not her standard routine and practice. But wait a minute, wait a minute. Before I get on to the light switch and the teapot, how the hey did they get a hacksaw? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Everybody, did I thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111 here at Crime Stories? We are talking about one of the biggest breakouts in jailhouse history. Two convicted killers bust out of Clinton's CI.

How did they get a hacksaw? Let's just start with that. Take a listen to our friend Brian Todd. Inmate Eric Jensen worked at the Clinton tailor shop with Joyce Mitchell and David Sweat and tonight he drops a bombshell. Jensen says about four times a week Mitchell and Sweat would disappear into a closet at the tailor shop, sometimes for a half hour or 45 minutes. I believe they were getting it on.

I believe they were getting it on in that back room. Mitchell's husband Lyle says she's but Jensen says Mitchell's interactions with Sweat suggested otherwise. Giggling like a schoolgirl, and not only that, it's actually like when, like, you know, the superstar football player, he asked the girl out on a date or for the prom or something like that. This is not the superstar football player asking her to go to the prom. This is having sex in the closet with a convicted killer at Clinton CI. Let's just, just, let's make that clear distinction. Although I appreciate the analogy.

Thank you so much, inmate Eric Jensen. So now we're getting a picture of what may have happened. Let me understand this. I think I need to shrink before I can take another step. Dr. Angela Arnold, she has a husband that she's been with for years and years and years. He's always stuck by her. What is she doing in a closet with an inmate for half an hour giggling? Well, I have a feeling these inmates are very manipulative and persuasive. And it'll be a cold day in H-E-double-L before I get in a closet with anybody, number one. Apparently this goes on at these places, doesn't it? Well, I don't know anything about that.

They saw some sort of weakness in her, and they made her feel good about herself, and they took her in, didn't they? What we understand is that Mitchell was having a sex relationship with Richard Matt, that she sent naked pictures to David Sweat, admits to smuggling in tools. Now remember, these two are on the run. Matt gives Mitchell pills to give to her husband on the day of the escape. Straight out to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

So the investigation turns toward the prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell. It sounds as if the plan was much bigger than an escape. That they were planning to kill her husband Lyle yep she had planned in fact she so when they broke out of the prison she was supposed to meet them you know they popped up one block away she was supposed to drive her jeep and meet them there and take them and the three of them were going to go back to her house, get rid of her husband, and then go on together. Alexis Tereshchuk, we remember what happened with one of these guys when he took his boss on a road trip. The boss ended up in the trunk with his neck snapped. Remember that?

Yep. So it probably wouldn't have ended up very well for her. Dr. Angela Arnold made a very good point. A lot of these inmates, they're charismatic. I remember for years and years, Jim Elliott, I was in one of the busiest courtrooms in inner city Atlanta. We tried more cases in that courtroom than any other courtroom. And I'll tell you why, as an aside, I had the oldest, I was assigned to the courtroom to run the state's business. I had the oldest judge in the courthouse, Luther Alverson. But he was 80s. Jim, he was so old, he got grandfathered in under the Mandatory Retirement Act.

He didn't have to retire. So he was hell-bent on showing everybody that he was fit to stay on the bench, which he was. He wanted to keep the lowest jail count in the Fulton County jail. Jail count means the people languishing in jail, waiting for you to either plead them out, drop the case or go to trial. And it would go out every Monday, the jail count. What judge wasn't handling his or her business and had a high jail count? So we would have to be on trial every other week to keep our jail count down. I don't care. It could have been a drug case, a murder case, a rape, grand theft. It didn't matter. We had to move those cases. So long story short, I would do a lot of plea negotiations.

And in that court, I would directly negotiate with the defendant sitting there and their lawyer. Some of them could be very persuasive and very charismatic. Of course, it meant nothing to me because I'd read the police report and believe the cop. But they are very charismatic sometimes. Yes, and clearly the judge was you know was well aware of how manipulative a lot of these people are and that was his goal was to put them where they needed to be my point is i can see how this seamstress struck up a friendship with these two convicted killers because she would be with them every day in a somewhat

non-threatening situation, but falling for one and making out, having sex in the broom closet, that's a little beyond the pill. Agree or disagree, Jim Elliott? And they saw her to be perhaps their route out, and flattery and all that sort of thing. So, you know, that was going to be their escape route. Alexis Tereschuk, you hear what Jim Elliott is saying,

but how do you explain sending one inmate nude photos of yourself That was going to be their escape route. Alexis Tereschuk, you hear what Jim Elliott is saying, but how do you explain sending one inmate nude photos of yourself and having sex in the closet with the other one? Well, you explain it as she was really in love or in lust with these guys, and she was definitely wanting to keep the work romance going. You know, people talk about having a work husband. P.S., her husband, he was an act of guard. He worked in another part of the prison. So all this carrying on with these two inmates was happening while her husband was working at the exact same place.

Right under his nose. And I guess the inmates thought at some point they were going to kill the husband, Lyle, because we understand that she got two pills to give her husband that I guess were going to sedate him to kill him. Let's take a listen now to ABC's Gio Benitez. I'm sure once they realized that they could manipulate Joyce into bringing in the tools, that was the first step. What did she give them? Hacksaw blades, drill bits, a punch tool, a couple of layers of eyeglasses that have lights on them.

She later then provided batteries for those lights. But Wiley claims she had help. bit, a punch tool, a cou that have lights on them. provided batteries for th claims she had helped a g named gene Palmer who brou the prisoners with the cr hidden inside. It was a c earth. Um I don't think h any knowledge about what was in that meat.

Palmer says he had no idea, but admits he cut corners other times, helping Matt on other prisoners. Now properly equipped, Wiley says sweat begins gnawing through the walls of Clinton Prison like a rat through a rope. After months of nocturnal labor, it's Friday, June 5th. In the tailor shop that day, Matt allegedly tells Joyce, the time has come. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about one of the most notorious prison breaks ever known. At a Clinton CI, two convicted killers managed to escape with the help of the prison seamstress. The way it looks right now. Joyce Mitchell.

Take a listen to our friend, Gio Benitez. Mitchell would pick up the escapees and drive back home where they would kill her husband. But she gets cold feet. And when she doesn't show up, the men escape into the deep, rugged woods, launching the three-week manhunt. Joyce Mitchell soon under arrest as we track down her husband. What do you make of the reports that she was trying to have you killed? Today, Lyle Mitchell visiting his wife in jail.

And why did she do it i was caught up in the fantasy she says i enjoyed the attention the feeling both of them gave me and the thought of a different life okay i definitely need to shrink right now straight out to dr angela arnold renowned psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Dr. Angela, a different life. You know, Dr. Angela, I've seen so much crime, so much deception, so much pillaging of humanity. I'm so happy to have an awesome husband and children. I would never jeopardize that. What other life, what other life would you want beside that? I don't get it. Well, I have a feeling that they were very good.

Here you go, blaming her, blaming them. I mean, she's the one having sex in the closet and providing a hacksaw. Well, we also, I mean, who knows what was going on in her life and in her home, right? I mean, who wants to be the seamstress in a prison, for goodness sake, right? I also get the impression that she felt a little empowered by this, by what she was doing. And that's why, and then, boom, she came out of that when she didn't meet them at the end. So she does have, you know, she does have sense about her in that way. She was able to, she wasn't, but I feel like she felt empowered in doing this. Empowered. Okay.

Stephen Lampley, detective author outside your door at stephenlampley.com. Have you ever had a situation where you had co-defendants, let's say two or three, and one of them backed out at the last minute because that's what she did come up when they got out of that heat duct uh blocks away from the jail and she didn't go through with the plan to kill her husband you ever seen a defendant back out of the plan yes it doesn't happen often uh but of course in this case it did happen and uh supposedly what i understand she quote unquote got some sense about her and didn't want her husband to be killed and actually had a good want to lose that and in defense of her maybe that was her good point uh but again she still

did go through with the first part you know what you're like a snake charmer the whole bunch of you it's like the snake's going like this and I'm going like that. No, these are two convicted killers. A cop killer. She helped let a cop killer snap the victim's head with his bare hands. No, no. Empowered, empowered my rear end. Uh-uh, no.

N-O. So these two go on the run while she's trying to explain to her husband, uh, well, let me think what happened. In the meantime, take a listen to Lindsay Janis. Authorities later learned that Sweat had gotten fed up with his increasingly unstable partner in crime. With the noose quickly tightening, Matt decides to hole up here for a spell. You can see there's a little bit of food in the cupboard. Yup.

Eventually, Matt leaves the camper and hunkers down here in the woods, a swamp and a ravine behind him. State police lining the road in front of him. He points that 20-gauge shotgun towards them when suddenly he coughs, betraying his position. And then they communicate that call in the wood line. They're coming up from behind where Matt is just here. Correct. A border patrol agent levels his M4 assault rifle at Matt and

twice orders him to drop his shotgun. The border patrol agent engaged inmate Matt at this location because Matt failed to comply with his instructions. At least three agent engaged inmate Matt at this location because Matt failed to comply with his instructions. At least three rounds struck inmate Matt in the head. To Alexis Tereschuk, investigative journalist, crimeonline.com. Alexis Tereschuk, the two split up while they're on the run. Why? They split up, and that was, I don't know if it was their downfall, but this is when it ended. So Richard, Matt, the Border Patrol agents, they get him. Okay, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait.

Matt gets shot after he coughs, and his Border Patrol agent hears it. But the dynamic between the two of them, Joseph Scott Morgan, one is hot-headed, one is level-headed. And it gets to a point where they feel, one of them anyway, has to split up in order to escape. I mean, it's basically the level-headed one has a cement block around his ankle, the one he couldn't control. Yeah, you're right. And, you know, look, these guys are inside prison. They're dependent upon one another to escape this environment. But once they're out there, this whole new world opens up to them, literally, and it's massive.

And suddenly the faults, you know, in these tense circumstances right here, you see where the Achilles heel is for everybody. If you got a sense about you to survive, what you're going to note, they're on their trail. And yeah, have a nice day. And so this guy is like, I don't want this guy weighing me down. He's going to he's going to give us away. And so they're going to split naturally like this. This team that was on the trail of these guys, these guys are trailed, are trained in order to work in a tactical situation where they're going to take down. And look, trust me, these guys are criminals.

These individuals that, you know, had literally one of these guys had actually dismembered a man. I wonder if he used that to charm this lady. Hey, did I ever tell you about the time that I dismembered a guy? I wonder if he wooed her with that. And then you got another guy that's a cop killer. So they're going to be on their toes looking for these people. It's a violent, violent, potential violent situation. You've got these individuals that are literally sitting for

the least little movement out of these guys and a cough gives them away. You know, when you put it like that, Joe Scott, just imagine the law enforcement out searching for them and they know they've got a cop killer and another guy that dismembered the victim after snapping his neck. Take a listen to this. Sergeant Cook engages in conversation, says, hey, stop. And Sweat says, no, I'm good. Sweat kind of did a hand motion like this, framing his face as if to say, what? It's not me, you know, kind of like an unsolicited denial.

But Sweat was clean shaven at this point. Correct. framing his face as if to say, what, it's not me, you know, kind of like an unsolicited denial. But Sweathead was clean shaven at this point. Correct. So he made the facial gesture that he made, like, nope, you got the wrong guy. But Cook knew immediately, I've got the right guy. This is Sweat. It's on. Suddenly, it's a foot chase. Bear in mind that Sweat had a good 25-yard head start on Sergeant Cook.

Sergeant Cook has his gun drawn at this point. He's running full speed. He has to set himself here. Takes a deep breath. Cook, an expert marksman, ends the manhunt with two shots. To which Sweat dropped immediately. We're on a page for the rest of the constable personnel to stage at the station. That's right.

One dead, one apprehended. Just so you know, we're bringing you this story today because in the last weeks, that prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell, has walked free from jail. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.