Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Two Women Vanish into Thin Air? What Happened to Andrea and Linda?

Episode Date: December 28, 2022

Two highly thought-of, loved women go missing. Andrea Knabel dedicates her life to finding missing people and volunteering with the National Organization of Missing in America. Three years ago, Knabel's name was added to the list of those missing. The 37-year-old was last seen leaving her sister's house in the middle of the night on foot. Her family says she was upset and going through a rough patch. The movement of her phone has been tracked but not found. Her family is still hopeful. Cynthia "Linda"  Alonzo had plans for Thanksgiving. The 48-year-old mother lived with her daughter and grandchildren in Oakland, California. She also had a romantic relationship, but the upcoming holidays were family time. Alonzo spoke to one of her daughters by phone, confirming traditional plans of a get-together at Alonzo's mother's home in San Francisco, but she never made it. What happened to Linda? Joining Nancy Grace Today: Mike Knabel - Father of Andrea  Erin Knabel - Sister of Andrea, TikTok: @ErinKnabel, Twitter: @erin_knabel  Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags;" "Today with Dr. Wendy" on KCBQ in San Diego; Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD  Dr. Shari Schwartz - Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Twitter: @TrialDoc; Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet;" Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mark Oprea - Freelance Journalist (Cleveland, OH), covered the story for "Narratively;" Twitter: @mark_oprea  Susan E. Williams - South Carolina Criminal Defense Attorney; Former Prosecutor (Summerville); Instagram: @carolinaladylawyer, Twitter: @ATTYswilliams   Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Dana Kennedy - Senior Reporter, New York Post; Twitter/Instagram: @DanaKennedyLive; Facebook: "Dana.Kennedy" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A single mother of two who coincidentally donates her time trying to locate missing people goes missing herself. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Series XM 111. Where is Andrea? First of all, take a listen to this. January 7th is Andrea's birthday. Her sister and friends spent New Year's Day out searching for any sign of her in a new documentary recently aired, which her father says has sparked more interest in her case. Despite the rainy weather, the search went on. This time, they focused on Audubon Park to Belmar Avenue.

Her sister, Erin, was the last one to see her alive. She was calling her friends after she left my house. She wasn't ready to go to sleep. She was wanting to stay up and hang out. Joining me, an all-star panel of guests to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want to go to special guest Mike Knabel. This is Andrea's dad and Erin Knabel, her sister. Thank you so much for being with us. Mr. Knabel, tell me when you first learned that your daughter, Andrea, was missing. I believe it was about a day in.

I got a call from Erin, and she just informed me that Andrea wasn't answering. I personally wasn't overly concerned at that point because when she's not watching her children, someday she hangs out with friends for a day or two. So it got a little more serious after day two or three when Erin told me that her friends hadn't seen her either, and that's when we decided to file the missing persons report. When did it really sink into you, Mr. Knable, that she was gone? I think it was the first major search that we had at the,

at the firehouse when the national networks came in. So within the week, I was beginning to have some very bad feelings and thinking that we may not get her back at all. And, and it was very, very disturbing. And that was really the serious beginning.

Erin can able also with me. This is Andrea's sister. Erin, thank you for being with us amidst all of this. When did you first believe your sister was missing? The very next morning when my mother messaged us asking if any of us had spoken with Andrea. I thought, well, it's still kind of early. She might be still asleep. But then later on in the afternoon when my mom said she still could not reach Andrea, that's when I really started checking around because she always would check in with us and talk to us. So, like Dad said, it took a couple days for her best friend to answer me, and that's when I was extremely concerned.

So that was August 17th. That's when like the alarm bells were going off and I talked to dad and we agreed that I need to file a police report. And that's when I started making it public on social media that she was missing. What do you mean taking it public on social media? That's basically like in the beginning, I would make phone calls and I would make texts. Hey, hey, have you seen Andrea? It's all her closest friends, all my family. When her best friend, like the person that she normally stayed with, finally answered me. That's when I just started posting it for everybody in the world to see it on social media because I was desperate

at that point. That was after I made the police report. What was going through your mind when you were making police reports and contacting all of her friends trying to find her? Well, to me, it's hard for you to really comprehend the gravity of the situation. So I was still in the mindset like, Andrea is probably fine. Is she going to be mad at me for calling the police and saying this about her publicly? I was really worried I was going to hurt her feelings still. I still thought she's probably fine. Like, you just don't think that this is real and it's really happening. What is that phenomenon to Dr. Sherry

Schwartz joining us, forensic psychologist at panthermitigation.com. And she's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where law and psychology intersect where our minds for instance when i learned my fiance had been murdered had been killed i thought oh he's in a car wreck and if i get to him i can save him that's what i thought even though they said he's gone he's dead what is that phenomena it's a protective mechanism, Nancy. It's too much for us to bear. And so we need to feel like we have some power, some control, because that's what helps us maintain our equilibrium and our ability to manage the trauma. I want you to take a listen to our friend, Les Trent at Inside Edition. This woman who has dedicated her life to finding missing people

is now missing herself. Hello, my name is Andrea Knabel. 37-year-old Andrea Knabel was last seen two weeks ago leaving her sister's house in Louisville on foot in the middle of the night. Her family says she was upset and going through a rough patch.

The more time that passes, the more I worry that this is it. Maybe that was the last time I was going to see her. So I'm very worried. Now they are passing out flyers in an urgent search for the mom of two boys. I'm hoping that she didn't take a ride with someone to go to someone else's house and never made it and got into the wrong car. Andrea is a prominent volunteer with the national organization Missing in America, which assists law enforcement locating missing persons. I've looked at the map and it's about 13 miles away from here. This is Andrea five months ago looking for a missing person in Ohio. Now she's the one the group is searching for. She is well aware of how a missing person disappears. She would know how to disappear

if she chose to. Do you think it's possible she staged this for the attention? I have not ruled out anything. I find that very difficult to believe that she would be gone this long with her two boys, age eight and 10, that she adored in worship. Joining me right now, special guest, journalist out of Cleveland, Ohio, who has covered this case. You can find him at MarkOprea.com, O-P-R-E-A, Mark Oprea. Mark, thank you for being with us. Tell us about the night. Yes, sir.

Tell us about the night that Andrea goes missing. What do we know? We know a lot. I mean, I think we know there are primarily two sources regarding that timeline. The first one comes from detectives at the local police department. And the second one comes from mainly two private investigators, the Leonard brothers, who work at a private investigation firm called Locators, and who are a big part of Andrea's story as well, especially Tracy Leonard. But what we know is that around 9 o'clock, 9.50 on August 12, 2019, Andrea was dropped off at a local hospital for what seems to be an eczema issue.

She arrives back roughly, I'd say, two hours later at her mother's home. What kind of issue was it, did you say? It's believed to be the common perception of what happened is Andrea had an issue with eczema. Oh, okay. And that's something that Mike and Eric can maybe tell you more about. Right. This is something she battled a lot.

But Andrea's eventually dropped back off at her mother's home where she was staying and on Chickadee Road around 1134. And I don't know how far you want me to go into this, but she eventually leaves Chickadee due to a sort of increasing fight among her sister, begins, where she leaves on foot to a city called Sin Castle, which is where Erin is staying. I think this is really interesting because this is all happening in a neighborhood where the entire family grew up and knows extremely well. So it's within an area that they know. It's their neighborhood. Guys, take a listen to our cut eight, our friends at WAVE3. While thousands vanish in the U.S. every day,

people who know 37-year-old Andrea Knabel say something's wrong here. She is an amazing person. She's a great mom. She's a beautiful person, very personable. Here she is helping to locate people, and she comes up missing herself. Private investigator Tracy Leonard tells Wave 3 News the mother of two who volunteers for the national search group Missing in America was last seen between 1 to 2 a.m. August 13th, leaving a relative's home on foot in the 4000 block of Fincastle in Audubon Park. Super great girl.

She helped me locate the missing teen about a year and a half ago. Leonard and friend of 30 years, Marisha Kidd, says Knable had a recent round of bad luck, which included being laid off her job and her car getting totaled in a hit and run. Knable used her phone minutes after leaving the house, but hasn't been heard from since. So right there, Joe Scott Morgan,

professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a new hit series on iHeart, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, right there, we've got her placed with that cell phone call.

It's late at night and she sets off. It's basically down the street from her Scott, right there, we've got her placed with that cell phone call. It's late at night, and she sets off. It's basically down the street from her home. It's her family's neighborhood. How could she go missing just like that? Yeah, isn't that interesting? You're in this kind of densely populated area. This is not like you're out in the sticks somewhere, Nancy. So you've got her phone that's pinging off of a local cell phone. Yeah, this is Louisville, Kentucky. Yeah, yeah. And so you've got this area there.

Horse country, beautiful. Yeah, it absolutely is. And so you can definitively pinpoint, within a reasonable degree of certainty, where she was last located when that phone pinged off of that tower. My question is, is that what kind of data points do they have after that? You know, the movement of the phone or was she separated from her phone at some point in time where you have it in a static location and maybe she moved off from it? Or did somebody take the phone from her?

Mark Oprea joining me, a journalist on the case from the very beginning, who's covered the story extensively for Narratively. Mark, isn't it true there was about 1.30 a.m. she had been visiting with these friends and she was heading to her mom's house. She comes out of the house. She uses the cell phone on the way to her mother's on foot. And she's asking for a ride. Isn't that true? Yeah, that happens around. So the official timeline from the police department says that she arrived home from around 154 a.m.

So she gets home to her mothers. Is that right? That is correct. Yes. But what I find interesting is that, and this is where, this is why I think this case is so difficult and so extensive, is that she arrives home to two people who, at first, according to the private investigator, Tracy Leonard, first denied that they knew she arrived home. I'm referring to Ethan Bates and her sister, Sarah.

Whether that's true or not, this is... Wait, wait, wait. Let's analyze what you just said. I find that highly interesting, curious as well. Let's go to Mike Knable. This is Andrea's father and Aaron, her sister. Very often, I'll be in the

back of the house with my twins doing something. We'll be in the backyard. We'll be playing basketball in the front yard, something. And my husband will come home from work and I don't even know he's home. And he will have been home an hour and a half before I know. And I just come in and stumble on him. I don't find it out of the realm of possibility that both things could be true. I had a judge, oldest judge in the courthouse, and part of his instructions were to the jury,

it is your duty to make all witnesses speak the truth in puning perjury on no one. In other words, why does this story, why do these have to be false and mutually exclusive? Couldn't she have made it home and somebody in the family didn't know she came in? Isn't that,

isn't that possible, Mike and Abel? I think it is possible. And there has been a timeline adjustment. Explain. It's kind of a bombshell situation in that we discovered that she did make it back to the house. But then she left. And about two blocks away, we show her at a different area for a certain period of time, or at least her phone was.

We did not know she was separated from her phone. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So after she got home to her mom's house, she left again. And I did tell it to the Louisville Police Department as well. To Erin Knabel, I keep hearing about her being separated from her phone. Is that correct? Has her phone been found?

Her phone's not found. It's missing as well. Well, why do we think she was separated from it, or do we? No, the thing is, we can only tell by her phone movements what happened that night. So, yeah, like Dad's point is basically that it was either her with her phone or just her phone. It could be either one, really. Wendy Patrick, joining me, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. She's the host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ, San Diego.

And you can find her at WendyPatrickPhD.com. Jump in, Wendy. Yeah, you know, boy, Mark and Erin, I know that the problem is when someone goes missing, time is of the essence. I mean, Mike, you give this timeline adjustment that's fascinating because we live in a day and age where we track each other through our phones. I mean, the apps track us, we track each other, we check in, we tag each other. So it's almost like as the technology evolves, we may be getting more to work with as time goes by. And I know that that has to be at least somewhat encouraging for you and Aaron, because I heard a great description you gave. It's like trying to find a moving needle in a haystack. That stuck with me, Mike Knievel,

because that's exactly what this case must seem like for you and the family over the course of the last three years. Guys take a listen to our cut five our friends at WAVE3. The last time they saw Andrea her father says she seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders. Andrea's sister says they were close and always there for each other. The goal of the weekend long look is to have areas cleared so the Knavels don't have to worry about them anymore. They've had their speculations. I've always felt it's the most likely scenario that she left with someone that she knew. We think she was able to reach somebody she knew and went off into the darkness and something awful happened. Ever since she went missing, they've been doing

everything they can to raise awareness, wanting Andrea to see and wander back their way. The searches on land and on social media won't stop until they find answers. Anyone with information is asked to contact LMPD. To you, Erin Knable, this is Andrea's sister. Why is that your working theory that she got a ride or went with someone she knew that night after she left her mom's house? The reason I feel that way is just because I've basically been through this area, either living around here or regularly going here to visit my mother my entire life. And I walked through this neighborhood at any hour of the day and night and I've never felt

unsafe. It's just, it doesn't make sense for it to be random and because she had friends that were not trustworthy during this time period, people that she cared about that did not care about her. You know, how many times, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist, have we seen a wonderful person, a great person with the wrong crowd and that is their undoing? Exactly. And from what I've read about Andrea, she's clearly very empathetic. I read, you know, that she's involved in helping to find missing people. She's doing that because she has empathy for these missing people. And that might bring her into contact with people who aren't so nice and empathetic. That's a really good point. I found myself as a prosecutor

riding around town for hours on end, having breakfast, lunch and dinner with convicted felons and dope addicts and you name it, tromping through drug houses to find witnesses. And you can't walk through the muck every day, even if you're wearing hip boots and not bring a little bit home. Mike Knable, this is Andrew's dad. What kind of mom has she been to her two little boys? Well, Andrea was a great mother. And generally, you can tell that by how the children react to her. And they loved her dearly and supported her in everything she did.

She made them very happy. Erin Knable, how are the boys doing without their mom? I mean, they've got to be torn up. Yeah, they're very strong children. They're very bright. So they're making it. They're carrying on. But it's obvious that there's something there that they hold a lot of grief.

And I work with them when I see them. I make sure they know that anytime they want to share about their mother, I'm always listening. And I give them an overview of what I do for Andrea. They've even, they've even helped like bring, give me ideas on where to hang missing posters, for example. And they've laminated posters for me.

So they feel like they, I want them to feel like they can do something too. That is a memory. No child should have to have that putting up missing posters for their mom. Guys, take a listen to our cut six, our friends at WDRB. A Louisville mother vanished. In this weekend, there is a new effort to find answers. Her family has continued to put flyers up around town and call in outside resources to

help find her. This Saturday and Sunday, a large search will cover several areas of the city. 12 cadaver service dogs and handlers from 11 different states will search in about a dozen areas. Knievel's family is hopeful this will provide them with some information. We have not given up hope. We need America. We realize that. But there's places we want to rule out so we can just leave them alone and go on to the next thing. Well, if you think you've seen Andrea somewhere, call police. Won't you please help us find this missing mother of two who's devoted so much time to helping other people?

Where is Andrea Knabel? You can go online to whereisandreaknabel at GoFundMe or dial 502-574-7120. We pray for justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 18 long years ago, a beautiful young woman goes missing, but a stunning discovery. A so-called cold case heats up in a bizarre twist. Very often we refer to cold cases and in all the years that I prosecuted, there were files in the back of my drawer that I didn't have time to get to. Files that sat there and sat there and sat there waiting for a resolution and they drove me crazy. As I'm talking about it, I can still see them in my mind. I can see them at the back of the filing cabinet.

And I would wonder, is there ever going to be a time that I can work these and try to heat up cold cases. And then sometimes a twist of fate heats those cases up for us. Again, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. Take a listen to investigative reporter with CrimeOnline.com, Dave Mack. A woman's body was found in a shallow grave on the Oakland Army Base. The district attorney's office says a work crew discovered an uncovered human body wrapped in tarps in a shallow grave near 7th and Maritime Streets. An autopsy report positively identified the body as Cynthia Linda Alonzo. According to a news release from the Alameda County District Attorney's Office, Cynthia Linda Alonzo went missing on Thanksgiving, November 24, 2004. She was last seen heading to her mother's house for a holiday dinner but never arrived. Now, approximately 18 years after

her disappearance and murder, her body has been positively identified. Wrapped in tarps in a shallow grave. How the hay was that not discovered? First of all, let me introduce to you an all-star panel. First of all, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of South Carolina, Susan E. Williams. You can find her at swilliams-law.net. Renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, Karen Stark. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a new series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart. But first, to a special guest joining us, senior reporter with our favorite newspaper,

the New York Post, Dana Kennedy. And you can find her at danakennedy.com. Dana, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of the body. Well, turns out that a work crew found Linda Alonzo's body all wrapped up in tarp at the Oakland Army Base. And it was kind of a off the track kind of area. But it was also strange because the police had been told years ago it was probably in that area. It was just really a coincidental happenstance. A bunch of, you know, construction guys found the body. You know, that has happened before on other occasions. Where was the body discovered? I understand that it was in West Oakland, California. What is that? Just outside of Oakland? Yeah, it's just outside of Oakland on the actual

Oakland Army base. And it was just an everyday work crew, not police, not detectives, who just happened to find her body. It was in a very shallow grave wrapped in tarp. You know, to Joe Scott Morgan joining us, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, I'm going to you later, Karen, to talk about the shock of discovering a dead body and how literally people have tripped over dead bodies. It brings to mind just recently, we covered the case of a queen's mom of two, or Sawya Gale, whose body had been folded up into her son's hockey bag, and then dragged about a half a mile from their home. And a guy out walking his dog just literally came upon a dead body. It happens quite often. Then we had a high school teacher just recently who went for a walk at lunchtime,

never came back. Her body was just found by someone out for a walk in the same park type area. It happens so often, much more often than we think. But what I don't get, Joe Scott Morgan, is if this is a shallow grave. Why did nobody see that or notice for all these years, 18 years? Yeah, to Dana's point, you know, this is a kind of off the beaten track. Right. And so you're not necessarily going to see it. And also after 18 years, this is what we refer to in forensics as a clandestine burial.

After 18 years, the landscape, what we refer to as the topography and also taphonomy is another term we use in forensics. I couldn't do the last one. I heard topography. Yeah, taphonomy as well. Taphonomy. Taphonomy. Taphonomy. Yeah, it's T-A-P-H-O-N-Y. The ground actually changes. People think their ground beneath them is static, and it's not.

It's always changing at all times. And so that's a problem for investigators because you're, as the soil shifts, think about it's very, very active ground out there in Frisco, isn't it, in that area? You know, you've got all kinds of shifting that takes place. Then you have foliage that grows over this area. The only thing that would really stand out is maybe a depressed area that, again, can potentially be backfilled by rain that will wash dirt in there. So it's not something you're necessarily going to see at first glance. Okay.

That makes a lot more sense to me. And back to Dana Kennedy, senior reporter with the New York Post, was the construction crew digging? Is that how they found her? They were just doing sort of, as far as I know, Nancy, they were just doing sort of general maintenance stuff. They weren't even doing anything specific. her? They were just doing sort of, as far as I know, Nancy, they were just doing sort of general maintenance stuff. They weren't even doing anything specific. It was just kind of a work a day, work a day assignment. You know, it also brings up the specter of the Top Mom Casey Anthony case,

where a government worker was out doing his job and he noticed on more than one occasion something he thought was odd in a wooded area and he called police several times to come out and look at it. It was the body of two-year-old Kelly Anthony. So here you've got construction workers, much like the other examples I've given you, happening upon a dead body. At that point, Joe Scott Morgan, she's wrapped in tarps. So what exactly would the construction workers have encountered? I can almost tell you precisely what they saw. They saw an edge of fabric sticking up out of the ground, I would imagine.

That's what first grasped them. And it's not just a tarp. It's tarps. I'm not correcting you. I'm just saying I keep reading that over and over again. So that means that there's some preparation that went into this. Somebody showed up in order to deposit this body. I mean, obviously she didn't wrap herself up, but to kind of secure the body. And for us as investigators, I got to tell you, Nancy, that far down range, that's jackpot for us. Because that means that even though the body is breaking down and decomposing, all that stuff that we talk about all the time,

guess what's happening? Everything is remaining contained within that tarp. So if you have something that's really, really robust, as far as that fabric, that holds that fabric, that tarp together, there's going to be tremendous containment in this environment. So you have to be real, real careful as you're kind of excavating around this thing. The only thing that could go wrong, I mean, God bless the construction workers. They didn't know what they were into, but if they dug it or pierced the tarp in any way, that could compromise the evidence. But it's still self-contained in that little depressed area.

You know what's interesting? I don't know if you guys have looked at the scene. It's right beside a street. It's not out in a densely wooded. I'm looking at it right now. A murder victim's body found 18 years after the crime. I'm looking right at the aerial view from Sky 7 ABC. And it's beside a tree, but it is no more than 40 feet, maybe 50 feet off of a street.

And that tells me a lot about the killer. Why would the killer deposit the body, bury the body that close to a street? Karen Stark, New York psychologist, joining us from Manhattan today at karenstark.com. The shock of discovering a dead body or skeletal remains is something you never get over. I was just thinking that, Nancy, that it's not the same as hearing about it or seeing about it on television or a movie screen.

When you encounter a dead body, it's usually your first experience and you're totally unprepared for it. And there's just nothing like it. Emotionally, you kind of go into shock because you just don't think of when you're taking a walk, coming across somebody who's dead versus bumping into someone who's alive. That's really odd because I think about it a lot. Go ahead. Do you? Yeah.

I guess because I deal with finding dead bodies all the time. You're exposed to it. Right. So I think that in my mind, that's perfectly, could absolutely happen if I take the twizzle to walk. But I understand that that's not normal. So Susan E. Williams joining me, South Carolina criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor.

Have you ever defended or prosecuted a case where you had a Jane Doe? You didn't know who the dead person was? I haven't. But I suspect that the Thanksgiving from 2004 for Linda Alonzo's family will be vastly different than Thanksgiving this year, 2022, now that the body of their mother has been found. After all these years, 18 years, they've been waiting, and it's some good closure for them. You know, I'm thinking back on a case, one of the cases I prosecuted where the victim was a Jane Doe, the defendant, Brian Burrell Coleman, I think was his name, still remains a Jane Doe to this day. And it's very, very hard to find a killer when you don't know who your victim is because you can't figure out,

oh, well, who was she dating? Who was she married to? Who was she with the night she disappeared? You don't know who she is. It's a whole another layer of complexity. So to you, Dana Kennedy, a senior reporter in New York Post, how did they go about identifying Linda, or do we know? We know a little bit. First of all, we know that one of her kids was actually called down to the crime scene, which is amazing, because obviously after all those years, I don't know what there would have been to identify. But the Alameda County Coroner's Office performed an actual autopsy to confirm that the body was hers. And that autopsy was on May 12th. And that was the way they made the final final decision.

Dana Kennedy, as usual, you always tell me something I don't know. That's really interesting that when they found this body, a woman wrapped in tarps. Did you hear that as Joe Scott? Thank you for telling me that um they call her son now a grown man because 18 years have passed with him growing up without a mother so they knew there was something about the body that identified her and they called her son when the body was found is that what you you said, Dana Kennedy? Yes. Wow.

So, Joe Scott, what could it have been? And how do you then ID the body definitively? Because there's not going to be. She's totally skeletonized in 18 years. Yeah. And the world that we're in now, even when you have the fresh dead, as we refer to them, you rarely. Yeah, I wish you wouldn't. But you rarely put families.

Because that sounds like something you get at the grocery store. Well, you rarely put family members in their presence. You do it now electronically where you're looking at images and all that sort of thing. But now, you know, if we're talking about a body that's this far downrange and you're talking, you've mentioned the word skeletonization, that's key here. So I have to think that it might be an identifier like a piece of jewelry, perhaps, or maybe even a bit of clothing. But this is key here, I think, because they knew enough. They knew enough at this point in time to reach out to the family. So that means that the investigators already had connectivity in this case. They knew which direction they were moving

in. It's not like they just called a random person and told them to come down there. They called her family. So that means they had information from Jump Street that drew the family down there and they just wanted to get eyes on to see if we're heading in the right direction at that point in time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So in order to solve the mystery, what happened to this mom, Linda Alonzo? We've got to know about the night she goes missing. Take a listen to Dave Mack, Crime Online. When Alonzo didn't show up for Thanksgiving, Teresa Jones started her own investigation.

Jones began looking around the home for clues. Did Alonzo leave to run errands or did she just leave with no warning? All of Alonzo's personal belongings were still in the home. Her makeup, debit card, social security card, identification, and other personal items, all still in place. Did you hear that, Karen Stark? All of her personal items were still in the home. Makeup, debit card, social security card, ID, all her personal items were there and even in place. What does that tell you, Karen? Well, it tells me that she intended to come back,

that it wasn't like she was going to be running away or making any decision to leave because who would go, a female, especially without her purse, her identity, her makeup, whatever was in the bag. You just instinctively take that with you. Well, I think that's a little stereotypical. Karen Starr, I've never gotten to accuse you of that. You know, I don't carry a pocketbook.

The last thing I'm going to do is carry around a bag full of makeup. I've learned through shopping through housing projects to have your hands free at all times. But yes, I agree with you on the other items. Absolutely agree with you. It seems as if she would have been coming back if all her stuff was still there. Okay, what exactly are we talking about? Take a listen to Hour Cut 3 from Crime Online. When a search of Alonzo's home didn't turn up anything out of the ordinary,

Linda's daughters reached out to Eric Mora. He said that he hadn't seen his girlfriend for at least two weeks. Little else was said, but the daughters believed there was cause for concern. A rug was missing from Mora's bedroom. And Mora then changed his story, saying he had taken Alonzo to the store just the week before. And then neighbors say Alonzo was seen getting into a car with Maura on Thanksgiving Day for the drive to Alonzo's mother's home. A rug, a rug, a rug missing from the home. First of all, the boyfriend says he hasn't seen her for two weeks. She hasn't been home. But then why is all her stuff there? And then a rug is missing.

Dana Kennedy, senior reporter at New York Post. Do I have to say Durst? Robert Durst. Remember when his wife went missing, a rug was missing from the home. Do you remember that?

Yes. We know what people do with rugs when they wrap up a body. And okay, there's so many rug associations. Then let me just say Josh Powell. Remember when his wife Susan Powell went missing? He later killed, murdered both of his

little boys, by the way. But when their mom, Susan Powell, went missing, cops came in, there was a rug missing, and there was a fan. It was freezing temps outside. And there was a fan with the windows open, blowing on carpet and trying to dry out the house. And mommy's missing. You know, when the rug is missing, you might as well go ahead and put handcuffs on the guy. That's how I feel. I mean, Dana Kennedy, when you hear a rug is missing, does the, when the rug is missing, you know, you might as well go ahead and put handcuffs on the guy. That's how I feel. I mean, Dana Kennedy, when you hear a rug is missing, does the hair on the back of your neck just stand up?

Yeah, you hear a rug missing and you can just sort of see in your own mind's eye what probably was done with that rug. It was used to wrap a body. So, Dana Kennedy, joining me from New York Post, once cops realize the rug is gone, but all of her personal items are still there, what happens? The cops definitely, Nancy, knew something was up. The rug was missing. And not only that, this guy, Maura, was constantly shaky and talking too fast and a nervous wreck every time cops went to see him. He started doing this weird home construction, like sanding floors to get rid of blood. The guy, you know, was radiating that he was a suspect,

but they didn't have a smoking gun. They had no body. So it really took a long time to finally nail him. Susan E. Williams joining me, veteran trial lawyer out of South Carolina, former prosecutor, now defense lawyer. You know, Susan, how much I love it when the target gets antsy, like Dana Kennedy is describing, and talks too fast and looks shaky, as she described. I love it. That's when I like to look them straight in the eye and keep asking them questions. Yeah, he had some really bizarre behavior after Linda's murder. The sanding

of the floors, there were some cleaning agents that were used on the walls of the residence. He gave police lots of different stories. And he just left town after the case moved from a missing person to a homicide. So long story short, Susan Williams, he acts shaky, nervous, has an agitated voice pattern, and then amazingly starts home improvements, including sanding and cleaning. You know, Jessica Morgan, how often do we see a guy turn into a complete neat freak after his wife or girlfriend goes missing? Yeah, it's a pattern. They got to do the laundry.

They got to mop the floors. In this case, they had to sand the floors. Yeah, Lord have mercy. I don't know that I've ever heard of a case where somebody was sanding the floors. I've heard a lot about bleach. I've heard a lot about scrubbing. But this is kind of an outlier for me. But yeah, they go to extreme many times.

And one of the things you can do to trace this is go out and see what they're purchasing. Is it something that's outside of the norm of what they would normally do in this particular case? It sounds like the guy invested in sandpaper, Nancy. Guys, take a listen to our cut five from Crime Online's Dave Mack. It was Maura's home that solidified the police theory that Maura had killed his girlfriend, Linda Alonzo. After discovering the carpet had been removed from his car, police search Eric Maura's home. Bloodstains matching both Maura and Alonzo were found throughout, but especially in the bedroom. Bloodstains were found on the wall, and there was evidence that someone had tried to clean it up. Investigators also noted that Maura had unevenly sanded the bedroom and living room floors.

Note to self, after I murdered David, my husband, sand down the floors to get rid of all the evidence. I mean, what did he need to do? Take out a billboard on third avenue dana kennedy that says i murdered linda really all the cleaning supplies the sanding what guy have you seen i mean have you ever seen any boyfriend or husband in your life get 409 or the equivalent and start cleaning the walls because i've never seen that in my life i I have never seen anyone like that clean the walls except, you know, in a situation where it was very suspicious. And among other things, just so you know, when the cops were searching the vehicles that this guy owned, Maura,

they found a 10-inch blade with a leather sheet as well as a bag for counting money on it. So they knew this guy was in deep and he was a bit of a keystone cop when it came to cleaning up the murder because there was still blood everywhere despite his efforts to sand and to clean and pick up bits of carpeting. So, you know, he wasn't going to win any brain trust. Man, you're not kidding about that. Okay, take a listen to our cut six. Two and a half years after Alonzo went missing, Eric Mora was charged with Linda Alonzo's murder. Mora was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to 15 years to life behind bars. Four years later, the conviction was

overturned in appeals court. New evidence, however, made it possible for police to refile charges against Mora. An informant told police that Maura admitted to him that he'd beaten Linda to death with a hammer. Her body was then reportedly dismembered, wrapped in a tarp, and loaded into Maura's car. The informant said the body was then dumped in the water somewhere in California. One of Maura's cellmates also testified that Maura tried to bribe him with $1,000 into telling cops that he was with Maura when Linda disappeared and that he'd seen Linda after Thanksgiving. The cellmate did not accept the offer. A year later, Maura confessed. Wow. But in the interim, 18 years drag by. Take a listen to our cut seven. Despite exhaustive searches, Cynthia Linda Alonzo's body was not found for over 18 years.

After Mora confessed to killing Alonzo, he provided a general location of her buried body. But the exact location was never found until construction workers uncovered a shallow grave while working on the streets of the Oakland Army Base. The Alameda County Coroner's Office conducted an autopsy and confirmed it was Alonzo's body. 18 years these children went without their mother. Now finally she has been found and may she rest in peace. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off.

Goodbye friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.