Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - TX Mom, Luxury Realtor Missing After Ritzy Private Club: “Screams, Then Silence”

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

On a Monday afternoon, Brad Simpson receives a call from his youngest child’s school. Staff are concerned because his wife, Suzanne, is nearly 30 minutes late picking up their kindergartener and isn’t answering her phone. Simpson picks up his daughter and makes several calls, but no one has heard from Suzanne. Her co-workers confirm she wasn’t at the office. Brad Simpson reports his wife missing. Olmos Park police are searching for Suzanne Simpson, a 51-year-old mother of four. She is described as a white female, approximately 5’5” tall, weighing 140 pounds, with hazel eyes and brown hair that falls just below her shoulders. Suzanne was last seen outside her East Olmos Drive home on Sunday evening after having dinner at The Argyle, a private club in Alamo Heights. She was wearing a black short-sleeved dress, nude chunky heels, and a watch or bracelet on her right wrist. The night before, Suzanne and Brad had dinner at The Argyle. Nothing seemed unusual during the meal. However, when they returned home around 9 p.m., Suzanne called her mother, describing a physical argument with Brad. About an hour later, a neighbor heard loud arguing from the house. The noise grew louder, prompting the neighbor to look outside. They saw the Simpsons physically fighting. Suzanne, still dressed from dinner, appeared to be trying to get away, but Brad kept pulling her back. The couple eventually moved out of the neighbor’s view. Suzanne Simpson now missing.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Ben Powers – Attorney with Legal Powers PLLC, IG: legal powers/Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC Dr. Lisa Long - Forensic Psychologist and Owner of Dr. Long and Associates; FB: Dr.LongAndAssociates YouTube: @Dr.LongandAssociates  IG: @dr.lisalong Brian Fitzgibbons – VP of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Kingsman Philanthropic’s 2022 rescue missions of women and children in Ukraine, Iraq War Veteranide_security Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” X: @JoScottForensic Mariza Mendoza - Reporter at News 4 San Antonio / Fox San Antonio; FB: Mariza Mendoza TV; IG: @marizamendozatv    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous Texas mother of four, a luxury realtor, missing after a visit to a ritzy private club, screams, then silence, according to neighbors. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Mom of four, Suzanne Simpson, is a no-show, failing to pick up her children from school.

Her husband reports her missing. Where is Suzanne? So we're holding out hope that maybe, you know, maybe she's trying to be away from the home to get away from that situation. That's not totally uncommon. But what is uncommon, what is unusual is that this was a woman who worked and was very dependable and loved her children and was always in contact with her children and her family and her friends. Where is Suzanne? What you just heard is from our friends at WOAI News 4, and that was the almost PD chief, Fidel Villegas.

Everyone, thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, the search has been excruciating for a beautiful mom, Suzanne Clark Simpson. This is what we know. She and husband go to a ritzy club. They have dinner. Video evidence has emerged of her leaving the last known shot of her wearing a black short-sleeved apparently wraparound dress, a pair of nude heels. There we go. A chunky bracelet or watch on her right hand, her shoulder length hair down. And notice it's in broad daylight, the early evening hours. Why is it that in the last hours, a search through a dump full of trash is being conducted? Again, thank you for being with us what do we know uh first of all take a listen again to almost pd chief fidel villegas we would love for her to be alive obviously there's nothing concrete that says she's not alive and again i owe it to the family we all owe it to the family

um to to speak of her in a way where other people have been found, like I said, injured and distressed, lost, troubled, hiding away. All of those things are possible. Yes, possible. True, but probable. That from our friends at WOAI News 4 with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know tonight. Straight out first to a renowned forensic psychologist, owner, Dr. Long and associates, Dr. Lisa Long joining us. Dr. Lisa Long, I hear what the chief is saying and he's right, but can we just be practical for one moment? Not one time in Suzanne Clark Simpson's history has she left her children alone. And some of these are small children. Right.

That's certainly what makes it most concerning is that it's not characteristic of her. Guys, this is what we know. We know that she was last seen on surveillance outside that ritzy Argyle Club. Members only. Very posh. But then screams were heard later. Chilling screams. There's the Argyle. So what do we know? Straight out to Marisa Mendoza, joining us, investigative reporter at News 4 San Antonio, who has been on the case from the very beginning. And of course, I don't say the story. This is not a story. This is real. There are children looking for mom. And right now we know that LA law enforcement is digging through and this is so hard to do. That's an art and a science to it. I'm going to go to Brian Fitzgibbons

on that in a moment, searching through a landfill, a dump. Can you imagine three, four, five feet tall of trash in certain areas there? You see they are coming through it with rakes. That's from our friends at KABB and WOAI. And that's just the beginning. Many of the workers have to wear, oh dear Lord in heaven. That's what I'm talking about. Three, four feet deep of trash from all over the area. Rotting food, baby diapers that have been out in the sun for weeks, refuse, everything. There's probably rodents in there, rats, and they are, how in the hey, are they going to find Suzanne and all of that? To Marisa Mendoza. Marisa, thank you so much again for being with us. News 4 San Antonio. Let's start at the beginning.

Tell me about the night that she and her husband are at the Argyle. What is the Argyle? Well, Nancy, the Argyle is a very exclusive club in San Antonio. Only members join there. It's a very high membership to join that club. Suzanne and Brad were invited to a party there. They attended. I spoke to her mother over the weekend and the mother said that Suzanne had initially called her saying, hey, can you come and

watch the kids? Her youngest is five. And her mom may have said, I'm busy. Suzanne said, I'll figure it out. She figured it out. She went to the party and then Brad followed or vice versa. Hold on just one moment. I want to circle back to the Argyle one moment. I understand that they devote all the money they make from fees and events to research, medical research. Now you look at this and it looks amazing. It looks like you might see Prince William and Kate there, but here's the reality. Isn't it true? Brian Fitzgibbons joining me, Director of Operations, USPA, Nationwide Security Specialty, Finding Missing wide security specialty, finding missing people. Brian, you can be rolling in money. You are still not insulated from crime. Nancy, it's a common misperception that your status or wealth insulates you from this type of event happening.

And all too often we see it in all types of communities that you could be the poorest of the richest of the rich. You know, Marisa Mendoza, again, joining us, News 4 San Antonio. I want to go back to that evening. So she's there at this event. Everything's going beautifully. Then we see her leaving. Now, that, as I said, was the last video surveillance or photo that happened to catch her leaving, but it wasn't quite the last time she was spotted. Listen. Almost Park PD are desperately searching for a missing mom of four. Suzanne Simpson, 51, is a white female, approximately 5'5", 140 pounds, with hazel eyes and brown hair hitting just below her shoulders. Suzanne was last seen outside her East Almost Drive home Sunday evening

after having a dinner at the Argyle, a private club in Alamo Heights. Suzanne was last seen wearing a black short-sleeved dress, nude chunky heels, and a watch or bracelet on her right wrist. So actually, Marisa, neighbors saw her after she came home from the Argyle. Is that correct? So a neighbor from across the street heard arguing and fighting. So he looked out his window and saw the couple fighting outside of their home. He had said to police that I saw them. They were Brad was like trying to hold her down. And then he couldn't see because it was late at night. Then there was silence. And then he went outside and followed them. And that's when he heard the screams. And that's, that's all that happened that he told police about that night.

What was the neighbor doing up? What attracted the neighbor's attention? Because there wasn't anything loud. How did the neighbor look out and happen to see this altercation, this verbal argument? Well, Nancy, you have to imagine a neighborhood like Olmos Park. It's very quiet. And usually when you hear something arguing, loud arguing, you will hear it because that neighbor lived in a very small apartment building. There's probably, it's two levels, maybe four or five units. So it's a very quiet area. And he was curious enough to go outside with a flashlight. He found nothing. Tell me about the neighborhood. Nancy, the neighborhood is upper class neighborhood. The homes there range in over half a million to probably upwards of two million, if not more. I know that the Simpsons home was valued at about $1.3 million.

So it's an area that is coveted. It's very well-to-do. Most of the folks there are like the Simpsons. They are upper class. They take very much pride in their community, their families. They're very involved in church and school, just like Suzanne. She was involved in the PTA. She was very involved in her children's lives. It's very, very disheartening for her little girl. I have a little girl that's the same age, so I can't imagine what her children are going through.

Right. So where did they get all the money? Where'd the money come from to have that nice, you know, million and a half dollar home? We've been told by community members that both families are very well to do. When I did a search on them, there were liens on the couple over the past few years. They were sued by American Express. So not all that glitters is gold. With me right now, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Whoa, I just heard something new. They had a lien from American Express. You know,

those American Express spending limits can be 30, 40, $50,000. So when you get a lien, that means you're over that limit. I believe it's you, Joe Scott, that has often said murders can be about sex or money, essentially. That's it. I disagree with that, by the way. But money, who would know somebody living in a nearly $2 million mansion, having their evening at the Argyle has a lien on them from Amex. Living beyond their means, when you think about that, if you're loading up credit cards in order to maintain a certain status, and as our

colleague just mentioned ago, painting this picture of this environment in which they live, this home, this nice home, 1.5, I guess, $1.2 million home. And then on top of it, all of the wealth that they're surrounded by simply based upon this party that they attend. You know, they're not going to invite somebody like me to a party like that. You know, you're going to have to have wealth status, that sort of thing. So in order to maintain that lifestyle, maybe you're using the plastic a lot. And of course, that can create tension. And Nancy, as you well stated, I've worked cases involving certainly passion. We've covered those.

But money many times is a driver. There's a lot of anger, tension that comes along with that. And sometimes, sometimes those events can turn quite violent. Neighbors hear screams. Then a mom of four goes missing. What happened to Suzanne Simpson? Monday afternoon, Brad Simpson gets a call from his youngest child's school. Staff are concerned because his wife, Suzanne, is now almost 30 minutes late picking up their kindergartner and isn't answering her phone. Simpson picks up his daughter, then makes several

calls. No one has heard from Suzanne, and co-workers say she wasn't in the office. Brad Simpson reports his wife missing. Ben Powers joining me, high-profile criminal defense attorney joining us out of Tennessee. Ben, thank you for being with us. Ben, why is it that so many dads don't know when pickup is? That's a good question. I don't know when my own child's pickup is, but I think that when you have routines, like it sounds like the Simpsons had,

I feel like that was Ms. Simpson's responsibility or something that she did regularly. So obviously it was uncommon that she was not there on time and that her child was still waiting there to the point that they had to call Mr. Simpson. Okay, I'm sorry. I can't hear anything you're saying because of what you blurted out at the beginning. How old are your children, Ben Powers? I have a 12-year-old and a 4-year-old. Okay. The 12-year-old probably gets out at the beginning. How old are your children, Ben Powers? I have a 12-year-old and a four-year-old. Okay. The 12-year-old probably gets out around 315, just so you know. Now,

the younger one, you'll have to ask your wife, I guess. So, Ben Powers, I'm very curious. Why do I keep hearing, oh, I didn't know she was gone until they called me from the school. Nobody picked up the kid. How can you not know she's gone? Does that mean she was home that morning and made some waffles? Does that mean you saw her run out the door to go to work? Where's her car? Does she have a crash? What?

He doesn't know she's gone? How can that be? I think one explanation would be that they did have this argument on Sunday night and hadn't seen each other since. Because as I understand it, Mr. Simpson left the home that night and he may have just assumed that the normal routine would still be in place. And then when this phone call came from the school, that's what first keyed him up that I need to make some phone calls. I need to find Suzanne. And then ultimately he reported to the police that she was missing after he made some phone calls. I need to find Suzanne. And then ultimately he reported to the police that she was missing after he made those phone calls. So wait, you act like that's normal,

Ben Powers, that the husband, the dad just leaves and just says, ah, I'm not going to worry about the four children. Um, I'm sure she'll take care of everything to hay with them. Um, see, I have a problem right there. I don't know. I don't know him, but I already don't like him. If anything you just said is true. So if you have to defend this case, please do not work that out in front of a jury. Okay. That, uh, he had no idea. He just assumed they'd get to school, but I got a question. Uh, Marisa Mendoza joining us from News 4 San Antonio. If she was supposed to pick the children up and he just went, well, where is she at three o'clock? Who took the children that morning?

Well, I'm glad you asked me because her mom mentioned the fact that Brad had called her and said, I took the kids to school in the morning. So it's interesting that he got a call from the school saying that Suzanne had not been by to pick up their youngest child. Her mother also mentioned. You know what? You know what I bet, Marisa? I bet you, I'm not a betting person, so I'll go with $100. I'll bet you $100 he didn't normally take them to school. So if he takes them to school, which would be an odd occurrence, especially as Ben Powers pointed out, he left the home in a huff the night before after the argument. How did he know to come take the children to school? He came back home. Was she there then? Okay.

The whole drop off pickup thing is something to be examined. But Marisa Mendoza question. So he realizes the piano hits him in the head. Where is Suzanne at pickup time? When did he report her missing? Shortly after, I guess he picked up his child. Okay. Brian Fitzgibbons, that is to his credit because so often, Brian, we see cases where the missing mom is not reported missing for hours and hours, even days. Okay. Days go by. And then finally, usually coworkers report the mom missing, but you have the dad here, the husband reporting her missing. As soon as he says he realizes she's gone at pickup time. So that's something, right?

I don't see it as a good mark in his case, Nancy, because what we have is an immovable object. Suzanne was set to be seen on the afternoon of Monday, October 7th. He would have known that. All right. So she was expected at that time and at that location. Now, the neighbor thinks he sees her out the window. He thinks that he hears an argument. But let's circle back to that moment. Listen. An hour after Brad and Suzanne Simpson return home from dinner at the Argyle, a neighbor hears loud arguing from their home. The yelling seems to get louder and the neighbor peeks out of their window, shocked to see the Simpsons in a physical fight outside their home. It looks like Suzanne, still dressed from dinner, is trying to get away, but Brad Simpson keeps pulling her back. The couple eventually moves out of the neighbor's sight line. So they're having somewhat

of a physical altercation right there in the driveway. And I want to ask again, Marisa, is the neighbor's place, does he have a balcony? Was he looking out the window? It was at night. Could he see? And what does he mean by they moved out of his sight line? I want to make sure he had a sight line to start with because, oh, Marisa, I'm sure you've seen it before how eyewitnesses are attacked. Tell me about what would have been his sight line and what does he mean that they moved out of it? He is probably one of the residents that faces the Simpsons home. So he says that he was looking outside of his bedroom window. When they moved out of his sight line,

they probably, that's when they went into the wooded area, which is across the street. In that wooded area, there's a trail that residents typically like to walk. So maybe that's, I'm assuming, where they went. That's why police searched that area extensively last week. Ben Powers, veteran criminal defense attorney, joining us tonight. Ben, there are so many attacks on eyewitnesses by the other side, it could be either side, that in many jurisdictions, that attack is actually codified. In other words, it's in the code, the official annotated criminal code of the jurisdiction. For instance, an eyewitness can be attacked on their vision, the lighting, the distance from which they

see the individual or the event, their history. Had they ever had incidents before where they could not see something they claimed that they saw? It's in the criminal code. It's so often done. It's so typical. So I want to nail down everything I can about this eyewitness. How would you attack the eyewitness? fresh point that same night, why they wait for police to come to them with questions instead of going to police to report this incident that they say that they saw with such detail. And so that's where I think they're most vulnerable is just the fact that they're now saying this was so obvious, this was so concerning, but they didn't do anything at all. They went out, I think, with a flashlight and then just went home and went to bed. And so I think that's where I first would bring out the questions about this witness, but then also the distance, the lighting, the lack of lighting, any objects like trees or bushes or vehicles that are in the way. You know, what did they actually see and where are they filling in with what they think they saw? An extensive search underway in the woods surrounding Suzanne Simpson's home.

Where is the mom of four? Suzanne and I had an opportunity to talk an hour before a lot of this has happened. My speculation is maybe the whole thing is alcohol-related because when she got back, she called me up and told me the things that Brad had done to her physically. Well, I came up with an alternative plan for her and hoped that she'd move in with me and have her little toddler go to the elementary school in my neighborhood. I never got to tell her the plan. The single most dangerous time for a woman is when she attempts to leave.

You just heard from Suzanne's mother, Barbara Clark, from our friends at WOAI News 4, Dr. Lisa Long is joining me, psychologist, at drlisalong.com. Dr. Lisa, other than when you're pregnant, which is one of the top two most dangerous times in a woman's life. When you're pregnant, so much violence occurs on women when they are pregnant, when they announce they're pregnant, during the pregnancy. The other time that is equally as dangerous is when the woman attempts to leave an argument or a bad relationship.

True, false? Yes, that is true, Nancy. That is true. And we hear now that there were other stressors in the couple's relationship, including financial stressors. All of those things are concerning. Explain to me, Dr. Lisa Long, renowned psychologist, forensic psychologist. Why is it? And of course, I don't expect you to crawl into the mind of a perpetrator, but why is it that during the pregnancy and when a woman tries to leave either the relationship or an argument, why are those two times the single most dangerous times in a woman's life, statistically. I mean, we can look at the cycle of abuse. And so typically when a woman makes that choice and she's making motions to actually leave,

that is when the perpetrator or the partner oftentimes anti-ups, you know, and the abuse increases. So that is why it's, it's more dangerous. The perpetrator or the spouse feels as though they're losing control. And that's what makes the situation much more dangerous. And Dr. Lisa, in this case, we have two incidents. Number one, the neighbor, if the neighbor is to be believed, and I see no reason why the neighbor should not be believed, contrary to what Ben Powers is saying. What Powers brought up about a line of questioning and cross-examining is absolutely correct. Instead under our jurisprudence, individuals do not have a duty under the law to be good Samaritan or report wrongdoing. You hear a gunshot, you hear a scream. You're not under a legal or criminal duty to call 911.

If you don't, then you're a crud. If you do, then you're a good Samaritan, but you will not be prosecuted if you don't. However, he's got a good point and a great line of cross-examination. My point here is Dr. Lisa Long is that there were two things happening. Number one, she was trying to leave an argument according to the neighbor. And number two, when a woman puts a plan in place to actually leave, to really do it, not just say, I'm so tired of you. I want out, but to really do it here, you see the mother, Barbara Clark state, we've talked about this and we've talked about this. I came up with a plan for her. She would move in with me and we had planned to have her little toddler, her daughter, go to

the elementary school in my neighborhood. That is a plan. That is a hard plan, Dr. Lisa. Right. And so what, you know, we could, we could speculate that Brad may have perceived himself as losing even more control, that Suzanne had made a choice that she was moving forward with moving in with her mom. It's my understanding that she also had the conversation with her mom shortly before she went missing. So this may have been the first time that her mother was aware of the domestic violence. Plus, as Marisa Mendoza told us earlier from News 4 San Antonio, the couple had been sued by American Express and they settled that. Now they had a lien on them by some contractors. So they're having one financial problem after the next.

And now they're having an argument in the driveway and she wants to leave. He grabs her by the arm to pull her back and they move out of the neighbor's sight line. What happens next? Listen. The Simpsons neighbor steps outside to see where the couple went. There's no sign of Brad or Suzanne. Then the neighbor freezes when they hear a scream from across the street in Olmos Basin Park. The neighbor hears two more screams, then silence. The quiet upscale neighborhood of Olmos Park, Texas, rocked by chilling screams.

What happened to mom of four, Suzanne Simpson? After giving an initial statement Monday, Almost Park PD scheduled a second interview with Brad Simpson on Tuesday. Alarm bells ring when Simpson doesn't show up. Family members say they haven't heard much from Simpson since he left the home he shares with Suzanne for his ranch in Bandera about an hour's drive away. So he owns a ranch in Bandera an hour's drive away. And I want to point something out with the herd. Just before we went to break, Marisa Mendoza joining us, News 4 San Antonio.

So the neighbor goes back inside after hearing the scream and silence. But then about an hour later, what happens? About an hour later, the neighbor went back into his apartment and I guess Brad went on his merry way to do whatever he needed to do. The interesting thing that I wanted to add is we spoke to that neighbor again last week off camera. He didn't want to go on camera, but basically we asked him, why did you not report what you heard and what you saw Sunday night?

And he said, point blank, we don't do that in this neighborhood. We don't say those things to the police. And I said, well, when you don't report those things, things like this happen. People end up missing. I don't know if he regrets it. He didn't say that. But that's what he said. We don't know if he regrets it. He didn't say that. But that's what he said. We don't do those things here.

Marisa Mendoza, isn't it true that when the neighbor goes back inside an hour later, he hears, he must have a very keen sense of hearing, he hears the neighbor's garage door open. He sees Simpson back out in his black truck alone. And he returns two hours later, this truck. Isn't that true, Marisa? Yes, that's what he told police. And police had released that picture a few days later, asking for the public for help, asking them them if you've seen this truck someplace, please let us know. Reporters, we've asked police, have you found anything in the truck, anything related to Suzanne? They have not commented if any DNA or anything of hers was found in the truck.

OK, this is what we know. Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensic Jacksonville State University. Police have Brad Simpson's black 2019 GMC Sierra AT4, a Sierra AT4 black in color. Can we show that please? The tag number is M mother D Dakota W Windsor, 7 0 5 0. Repeat M mother D dog, W Windsor, 7 0 5 0. And right now police are asking if you have seen this vehicle, please let us know. And Joe Scott, it wouldn't be the first time a vehicle has cracked a case. Do you recall the case of Cherish Periwinkle that was kidnapped from a superstore? Listen, Joe Scott. Jackson, 911, fine. Hi, we're calling about a suspicious van over here, a white van. It's not there anymore, but we don't know if he dumped anything

because we heard a girl just got a dumpster from Walmart. Right. So we're not sure if that's the van, but a white van was pushed all the way to the back of the bushes right behind the church. Oh, behind. Yes, ma'am. And how long ago did you see it? 720. We didn't know anything until just now. You think he may have dumped something? Right. We don't know. It looks suspicious because it was all the way to the back. Okay. So there was that case. And of course, when the perps vehicle was found, the child was found nearby, half submerged in water and dead. And then of course, Joe Scott, who could forget the truck, the Ford Transit and the Gabby Petito murder.

Remember, listen. We came across a white van that had Florida plates, a small white van. This is most definitely Gabby Petito's Ford Transit van. So, Joe Scott, what what are they doing with Simpson's black truck right now? Going over from stem to stern, if they have their hands on it, they're going to look. And listen, the fact that her DNA would be found in the vehicle is no grand surprise. They're married. So she would have occupied that space.

The key here, though, is the source of the DNA. And what I mean by that particularly is, is there blood on any of those surfaces in there that can be tied back to this mama? And we think about, you know, you couple that with this idea that they have gone on this search in a landfill. Well, how are you going to transport a grown woman's body anywhere? And would there have been harm done to her? Look, I don't have to go very far to remind you that right now we're in the middle of the Quentin Simon case. And, you know, there was, you know, landfill involved in that particular case.

But you're talking about a precious little boy here and easily moved about. With this, we're talking about a full-grown woman. So, how do you accomplish this task? There is something that the police know that has driven them to the point where they're going to assemble a team of cadets, and this is not a light undertaking, Nancy. This is a lot of heavy lifting in order to facilitate this. You just don't do this on a whim. So they have some kind of biological evidence, I would think, that might tie this case to maybe a disposal in a local dumpster or perhaps in some bin somewhere that they can track because tracking is the key to anything involving a landfill. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

After Almost Park PD speaks with the Simpsons neighbor, they focus their searches on a wooded area in Almost Basin Park, just across the street from the Simpsons home. Texas Rangers and Texas Search and Rescue join Almos Park officers, bringing several dog teams to comb the area. Meanwhile, a search warrant is also executed at the Simpsons home. Police say they have recovered several evidence items that have yet to be analyzed and are also trying to obtain digital evidence from both Brad and Suzanne Simpson's devices. You know, earlier we heard Joe Scott Morgan opining on what has led law enforcement to this dump. He thinks there's some sort of DNA type evidence. I disagree.

I think it's very possible Maria Mendoza, Marisa Mendoza joining us. I assume that police got search warrants and access the husband's cell phone and laptops, all of his devices. And I'm wondering if there he may have searched for the location of the landfill. If there is a possibility they've already triangulated it and gotten a ping near the landfill. What can you tell us about the landfill searches going on right now? What I can tell you is that they've been at the landfill for the past few days. It was yesterday when the chief went with a letter to Olmos Park residents and said he felt confident that Suzanne's body was going to be found in that area. When they initially went to the landfill on Monday,

it was a search, we weren't really sure. It was one of four searches in a search warrant, four properties, I guess, that the search warrant called for. But the focus has really been now on this southeast Bexar County landfill and certain parts of it. So it's it's really horrific to see what people are going through all this trash and that she could possibly be there. Brian Fitzgibbon is joining us, Director of Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, I don't know if you've ever been part of or are tangential to a landfill search, but they are agonizing. They're tedious. You have to look through every bit of trash, sometimes three, four feet tall, and you could be looking for something as tiny as a digit or part of a

digit. Absolutely, Nancy. And these searches are done in a very systematic way. And just like Joe Scott Morgan said, these landfills are typically done on a grid system. So they're going to have pretty accurate data as to where to search. And then they begin going layer by layer, setting up a secondary grid where the searchers will comb through one layer of that debris to look for the remains. Just got Morgan Way in on landfill searches. Yeah. And so it is a grid search. And you can't, just so folks understand kind of the lay of the land with a landfill, they are broken into grids and you can't continue to dump in the same spot every time. So they rotate these around.

The trick is, and what they do understand, is every time you see a truck go down your street that collects a garbage bin, there is an assigned location that that truck will go to at said landfill. And they will begin filling that particular grid, and then they will begin to run over it with the heavy equipment. That's a great shot. Our production team does a great job with this, Nancy. Those big steel tires that you see with the knobs, they're compressing all this. We call this stratification of this debris. So you'll have remains that are commingled with all of the household garbage and everything else. And this thing is being compressed over and over and over again until they're done with that grid. When you're doing a landfill search, you block that grid off of the area that you suspect that that truck may have dumped something in that location.

That's why I think they have information about this. And you're going to go over this very painstakingly. And it is not an easy undertaking. You can see these guys out there in Tyvek suits. It's hot. It's miserable. And you're trying to look for the finest detail that you possibly can. Because once a human remain gets into this location, whether something has happened to

them like dismemberment beforehand, even if the body is intact, the body is going to be greatly, greatly affected. And it just it all looks the same when you're out there. You really have to adjust your focus when you're there. I wonder, Joe Scott, how effective cadaver dogs would be in this scenario? There's scent dogs, which pick up on a live human. Then there's cadaver dog that picks up on, you know, disposed. Yeah. Decomposing. How would that work? Yeah. Their spectrum is greater than ours to be able to sense things through scent.

However, when you get into a landfill, you've got all of this organic material, which means this biological material that's commingled out there. And I think that they could still get a hit, Nancy, but it's going to add another layer of complication to this, even utilizing a cadaver dog out there. A lot of this is going to be accomplished through eyesight and good old-fashioned elbow grease. They're going to be taking that debris that you're seeing right there, they're going to take it to a separate location, and they're going to sift through every bit of it. So you've got multiple jobs that are being done out here. We're just seeing right now them doing an assessment, a raking, and then you don't really see them gathering the specific material and taking it to a location and then sifting through it because all of it can, again, begin to merge. And it's very confusing for

anybody that's trying to identify anything by sight. And another thing, Brian Fitzgibbons, you see them wearing hazmat outfits. Can you imagine out in that heat, digging through all of that filth? It could absolutely make you pass out. Oh, for sure. And, you know, this reminds me of my days in the Marine Corps, Nancy. This is like what we would call mop gear, wearing chemical suits. These cadets from San Antonio PD, they're working really hard out there. And sweating, having to breathe through hazmat. And imagine just a moment, if you can,

that somewhere, somewhere in all of that could be Suzanne's body. And somewhere right now, her children are wondering where's mom. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Suzanne, or if you believe you saw the husband's black vehicle, please call Detective Hector Ruiz 210-209-2701. Repeat, 210-209-2701. Thank you to all of our guests being with us as we hope and pray for the best in the search for Suzanne. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.