Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow still missing as so-called "Doomsday Cult Mom" Lori Vallow asks judge for reduced bail.

Episode Date: February 26, 2020

JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan have not been seen since September. Mom Lori Vallow has been arrested, and faces multiple charges including two counts of of child abandonment. Today the so-called "Doomsday Cult" mom appears in court, wanting a judge to reduce her five million dollar bond. Prosecutors say she is a flight risk and should not be released.Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Jim Elliott - attorney with Butler Snow, legal counsel for various Georgia municipalities and other governmental entities. www.butlersnow.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, www.drbethanymarshall.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Police say while they found Lori and Chad in Kauai over the weekend, there's no evidence that her children were ever there. Hawaii police served Lori with a court order that says she has five days to physically produce the kids. Chad, where are Lori's kids? Nate Eaton with East Idaho News was in Kauai this weekend right after police served Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell with two search warrants.

One for this black Ford Explorer the couple was driving around the island and another for their Kauai townhome where the couple's been living. They've been missing for four months. You have nothing to say? You're over here in Hawaii? Police don't know how long the couple's been in Hawaii. Lori and Chad staying mostly quiet before ducking into the Kauai Beach Resort over the weekend. There's people around the country praying for your children, praying for you guys. Why don't you give us answers? That's great. That's great. That's great that they're praying for you, praying for you guys. Why don't you give us answers? That's great. That's great. That's

great that they're praying for you, praying for your kids. What? You are hearing our friends at KTVB 7, Boise, Idaho reporter Gretchen Parsons and the voice of our friend Nate Eaton questioning Lori Vallow about where are her children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Breaking news right now, believe it or not, after cops insist Lori Vallow produce her children, she refuses to do it. She's ultimately arrested. We had to wait for cops to work up felonies on her in order to extradite her from her five-star resort there in Hawaii, get her back home to Idaho, maybe get answers about JJ and Tylee. Now, Lori Vallow appearing in court demanding her bail, her bail bond be reduced so she can walk free. Fat chance, lady.

You already lied to police and took off for hawaii according to police no judge in their right mind is going to let her walk free again i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thanks for being with us this as the search for tylee ryan her 17 year old girl Her 17-year-old girl is shifting to Yellowstone National Park. We know that one of the last sightings of the daughter, Tylee, 17. JJ, the little half-brother, is 7. Tylee went with her mother to Yellowstone Park. A photo was taken there. She's never been seen again. We understand law enforcement

now waiting for snow to thaw to go look for Tylee. I'm holding out hope that these two children are tucked away with this crazy cult she belongs to. I'm talking about so-called cult mom, Lori Vallow, who I read the divorce papers very carefully. According to the divorce papers, Lori Vallow says that she is a god, god with little g from another planet, that she's lived many, many lives before, and that she has been chosen

to lead the 144,000 people. I guess that cuts you and me out, Jackie. We're not going to make it. 144,000 worldwide since the beginning of time get to go to the New Jerusalem after the, quote, Great War. She also believes that she is eternally sealed to an ancient prophet, Moroni. According to the divorce paper, she told her husband if he stood between her and her religion and taking the chosen to Jerusalem, she'd kill him.

And guess what? Now he's dead. I want to find out what the hay is happening right now to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Levi, what in the hay about this bail reduction? What can you tell me? Well, Nancy, as you know, Lori Vallow has been arrested and she's charged with two counts of desertion and non-support of dependent children. And she has appeared in court and she's asking for her bail, which is $5 million, to be lowered. And her attorney, Greg DaCosta, argued that the equivalent for felonies in Hawaii usually range from $2,000 to $20,000. However, prosecutors say that they worry that she could be a flight risk

since she left Idaho and went to Hawaii. And they say that her husband, Chad Daybell, has $152,000 in his bank account. So we're going to have to see how the judge rules. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What we have learned is that when Chad Daybell's wife died, he got about $430,000. Hey, there's a lot more to answer up to. While many of us holding out hope, the children are just squirreled away somewhere, take a listen to our friends at Fox 13 Utah, Adam Herberts. Within two weeks of Tammy's death, Chad married Lori Vallow, who, as you remember, has been a widow now for about three months.

On November 26th, family members started to get concerned. They hadn't heard from the kids, JJ or Tylee. They asked for a welfare check, and police said the newlyweds lied about the children's location. We've gotten pretty much the runaround. I don't know what happened to those kids. I know that there's people who do and they're not talking. You've used the word cult. What do you mean by that? Their focus is just so much on the end of the world and you know this this idea that it's coming. The next day Rexburg police served a search warrant. They found out Chad and Lori left their home abruptly, so they called in the FBI. If I could say anything to him, I would just

say, tell the truth, you know? At this point, police determined the death of Chad's wife, Tammy Daybell, may be suspicious. So on December 11th, they went to her gravesite in Springville and exhumed her body for further testing. The day after that, Lori Vallow's brother, Alex Cox, died in Gilbert, Arizona. Okay, to Jim Elliott, veteran trial lawyer, joining me with Butler Snow. You can find him at butlersnow.com. Jim Elliott, it's no easy thing to get a body exhumed. You know why? Because once the body is interred in a grave or a mausoleum, once it's interred, it is really, it belongs to the state in a way.

And you have to go through a lot of legal loopholes, jump a lot of hurdles to get a body exhumed because you've got to weigh the purpose of the exhumation against the suffering it's going to cause the family. Of course. And like you say, that's not something people often think it's easy to be accomplished. It's not. It's very, very difficult. So very high bar for that to happen. And the fact that it did speaks volumes. Take a listen to our friend, Fox 13, Utah, Adam Herbert. July 11th, 2019. At this point, the kids were doing well, but they witnessed the death of their father, Charles Vallow, in Chandler, Arizona. He was shot and killed by Lori Vallow's brother, a man named Alex Cox. Alex said the shooting was in self-defense, but the case is still under investigation. This incident started with an argument, a family argument.

Fast forward now to September 23rd. This is the last time anyone reported seeing the children, J.J. and Tylee, at school in Rexburg, Idaho. But nobody reported them missing until about two months later. We'll get to that in a little bit, but first let's talk about Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy. Her dad tells me she was alive and well on October 4th. She drove down from Rexburg to visit her parents in Springville, Utah, but two weeks later on October 19th, the parents got a call from Chad saying Tammy went to bed coughing and never woke up. At the time, doctors said she died from natural causes at the age of 49.

Mm-mm. No. With me right now, forensics expert, Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder and director Cheryl McCollum. Nobody's even mentioned Joseph Ryan. Does that name ring a bell? You've got the dead husband, Charles Vallow. You've got Lori Vallow's former husband. You've got the dead wife, Tammy Daybell, who was 49 years old, training for a marathon, died in her sleep. You've got Vallow's brother Alex Cox who shot her husband dead he's dead but wait a minute that's not all I want to find out what happened to Joseph Ryan Joseph Ryan is missing Tylee's bio dad now reports are he died of a quote heart attack but it was immediately cremated

and i i want answers on all this cheryl mccollum but what do you make of the fact that police are shifting their search for tiley to yellowstone that's not good nancy it's not only not good to me it's so sad because she had so much time to cover her tracks, to dispose of these children, if that's what she's done, which it appears to me that's what she's done. Yellowstone, if you've been there, there are parts of it where probably two people haven't walked. I mean, there's the place where normal tourists go, and then there are parts of Yellowstone that are way out that nobody really goes to. And she had tons of time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I'm trying to make sense of it all.

Joining me in all-star panel, Jim Elliott, Joseph Scott Morgan, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCollum, and Levi Page. To Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, what can we do right now? What clues, what evidence do you find most significant? Well, first off, I've got to say you need a playbill to keep up with all of the actors in this. All the dead bodies. I think for me, the evidence rests in those that have passed on at this point that are dead. And, you know, this has to be

assessed. I'm really curious as to this exhumation. What did they find subsequent to this exhumation? You were just mentioning a moment ago how difficult it is to have a body exhumed. I've participated in, I don't know, probably 50 to 60 exhumations over the course of my career. And just to get the ground cracked open to extricate a body is a big deal. You have to make sure that you cover every inch of ground when you have that body out of the ground. So they'll be doing all kinds of testing relative to tissue, relative to any evidence of injuries. And what's really shocking about this is that apparently they don't have any documentation

prior to this person being buried you know what did you do before you allow this person to go on the ground and then we go to the cremated remains you know that's gone absolutely gone and you're saying that he had a heart attack well how do you confirm that and this woman that's in bed she coughs and she dies she's 49 years old. This is a very young woman. What kind of history does she have? When you begin to have bodies stack up like this, it really leaves me as a forensics guy scratching my head. I want to know more answers about what they're finding physically relative to these remains. Well, we know the last time that J.J., Joshua, was seen was in ring doorbell surveillance.

It was dug up by East Idaho News. We've got it at CrimeOnline.com. It was September 17. He was playing outside with another child there in Rexburg. The video caught on the ring doorbell camera at a neighbor's house. J.J. runs toward Vallow's townhouse with the other little kid, the other child, and he throws his hands up in the air. He's laughing and running. I've looked at it a million times. Police claiming numerous lies have been told, and as I recall off the top of my head, in the formal complaint charged

against Lori Vallow, the first two charges are desertion. Those are felonies. Each one is a 14 year sentence, a possible 14 year sentence when you just leave your child with no support, no food, no nothing. The other three charges are, count three, lying to police. It's alleged that when they went to the home to do a welfare check on the children, that Lori Vallow lied to them about the whereabouts of the children. Count four is, let me see, trying to solicit a friend to lie about the whereabouts of the children. And count five is contempt of court. When the court in Idaho ordered her to appear with the children, she did not do so. That's the rundown on the criminal complaint. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills, you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. If the children are alive,

and that's a big if, we know JJ, the seven-year-old son's autism medicine with 18, 19 or so pills, was found in the townhome. That was left behind, and it hasn't been refilled. We know that his iPad, toys, and some clothing went missing. A lot of that's found in a storage unit that Vallow got and then abandoned. There's no sign of the children in Hawaii. The last time that Tylee sent a text, her friends say it didn't sound like her, and then her phone, Tylee's phone,

was found with Lori Vallow's, at Lori Vallow's place in Hawaii. All of this suggests nefarious activity. So if they're alive, why would she continue lying about it, Dr. Bethany? Nancy, such a good question. You know, there's only one story that never changes, and that's the truthful story. And this story is changing again and again. And as you and I always talk about in these cases where mothers sort of lose track of where their children are, one of the most strongest piece of behavioral evidence besides truthfulness is does the mother have empathy towards the child? Is the mother worried about the child? Is the mother going on

TV saying, I have my child's medications. Anybody, if you have them out there, please know that he needs these particular medications. This is what a concerned loving parent does. Nancy, what I'm also really concerned about is the core belief system that Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell are engaging in, because we know that when somebody has an extremely strong core belief, anything that lies outside that belief system is discarded, is disregarded, is dealt with with hatred in the context of this cult. She's a god, small g. How do they feel about children?

How do they feel about marriage? How do they feel about family? How did the 144,000 get into heaven? How are they selected? I mean, do you have to shed family members in order to be the chosen one? How did 144,000 get into heaven? How are they selected? I mean, do you have to shed family members in order to be the chosen one? I would start looking at those core beliefs for some clues, too, if I was conducting an investigation here. Well, you know, talking about shedding your husband, Chad Daybell marries Lori Vallow two weeks after Tammy, quote, dies in her sleep.

I mean, a new spouse to these two is like putting on a pair of socks. That's just what that is. I don't know how you put that in, you know, psychoanalytic terms. But I know this,l mccollum when i hear that authorities are shifting their search for tiley to yellowstone and they're waiting till after the snow thaws there is no way in hell this judge is going to grant laurie valo a bond reduction that is not happening she needs to park her booty on a plane and get home handcuffed to a seat, I might add, and show up in court in Idaho instead of going in court while her children are missing and asking for a bond reduction. They ain't going anywhere. There's no doubt about it.

And the most important thing here is where's the sign? If they've shipped their investigation toward the daughter, that means were they killed at separate times? Did she place one in one area and the daughter in another area? Again, there's so many questions with this woman of God, it's not a good ending. Those children are not alive. The reality is, Jim Elliott, just break it down. Please do not start spouting legal Latin terms. Please don't do that. I used to love it when lawyers would do that to a jury. I'd watch

their eyes just glaze over. But here's the deal. These two, Vallow and Daybell, have not cooperated at all into the police investigation into the children's disappearance. Vallow did not comply with a court order to produce the children in Idaho. They were dragged in, kicking and screaming in a Hawaii courtroom, and her bail set at $5 million. There is no way, based on their track record of noncompliance, that these two can be trusted. They'll hop a private plane and be gone, long gone. I definitely agree.

I mean, kudos to prosecutors and investigators and law enforcement that came up with these charges because they finally seem to have. Excuse me. They did not, quote, come up with the charges. You're suggesting fabrication. And I object to that. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not fabrication at all. I think they were creative in coming up with, I mean, kind of thinking outside the box to come up with things that these people are definitely potentially guilty of. It goes back to facts in that to you, Cheryl McCollum, the children allegedly witnessed the murder of their father by mommy's brother, Alex Cox.

Let me throw a little tidbit at you. I'm pretty sure about the brother, Alex Cox, guess what? Has an assault conviction against another one of Lori Vallow, his sister's husband. Uh-huh. Well, the children were at an age where they could also be very vocal about whether or not that was in self-defense so if the children were starting to really ask questions or say well mama you know it didn't happen that way or we saw this or the children were talking to each other about it again not having the medicine not being seen for so long going from Idaho not having the medicine, not being seen for so long, going from Idaho to Washington.

Not having his iPad. JJ doesn't have his iPad, and Tylee doesn't have her cell phone. My children would just, like, curl up and D-I-E if they couldn't get their mitts on some kind of device. that you have Brandon Boudreau claiming he was shot at. Brandon's wife and Lori Vallow both joined a group created by Chad Daybell. And then suddenly somebody takes a shot at Brandon Boudreau, somebody driving Chad Vallow's car. Okay, back to you, Joseph Scott scott morgan professor forensics jacksonville state university joe scott how do you recover a body quote once the snow melts well they're going to go in with they're going to go in with dogs nancy and they're going to use cadaver dogs as cheryl had alluded to earlier for our listeners that have never been to Yellowstone, it's vast.

Let me give you an idea of what the current situation is up there right now. It's eight degrees Fahrenheit right now in Yellowstone. That gives you an idea as to how hostile that environment is. It will take a while for any frozen precip to melt up there. And, you know, we begin to talk about, particularly in death investigation circles, my colleagues up north talk about the spring thaw, and they always talk about bodies that are recovered after they've been in this environment

over a protracted period of time. So this is not going to be an immediate event. You're talking a very isolated, hostile environment. It could be weeks, it could be months, maybe into the latter part of april before any of the snow and frozen precip begins to recede off the ground i still believe there is a chance the children are alive tucked away with this cult that laurie vallow this doomsday cult that laurie vallow is associated with through her husband ch Chad Daybell. He's written about 25 books on the end of time

and all the disasters that are going to befall the earth. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.