Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Unbelievable: Kohberger Files Sex Harass Claim Over B*** F*** Threat, Demands Transfer

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Killer Bryan Kohberger has no trouble admitting to violently killing 4 people with a knife in a sneak attack in the middle of the night, but after just one night in J-Block at the Idaho Maximum security prison he is begging to be transferred out.  He submits a handwritten note telling the deputy warden his is being subjected to minute-by-minute verbal threats and harassment and asks to be transferred out of Unit 2 on J-Block because he says quote "J-Block is an environment I wish to transfer from."  In his first note of complaint and begging, Kohberger violates a cardinal rule of prison, never ratting out your fellow prisoners. Kohberger writes he is quote "not engaging in any of the recent flooding/striking...."Flooding in prison jargon refers to inmates intentionally causing water to overflow in their cells, creating a disruption on the block,  and by saying he isn't taking part, he is pointing his boney finger of righteous indignation at others on J-Block.  After sending his first note of complaint after his first night in prison, Kohberger follows it up a few days later with another note, this one given to a guard and claiming he is the victim of sexual harassment.  In the note, Kohberger claims one inmate is threatening to rape him, while another inmate says, "the only a** we'll be eating is Kohberger's." Kohberger offers up the name of a guard he says heard the threats and harassment so his claims can be verified.  An incident notification report is filled out by the guard who received the second Kohberger note and the guard named by Kohberger is questioned about the claims made by the admitted quadruple murderer. In a report filed three days later, the guard says he recalls vulgar language being used and directed towards Kohberger, but he doesn't know which inmates made the threats   In his note, Kohberger tells the deputy warden that he wants to be transferred to B-Block immediately. Immediately.  Kohberger also wants to speak to the deputy warden soon. In response Kohberger is told J-Block is "generally a fairly calm and quieter tier" and the flooding is a relatively rare occurence."  He isn't given his transfer and is told "to give it some time."  Joining Nancy Grace today: Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers; Twitter @TroySlaten, Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,”  featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive   Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective,  Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room" www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough    Heather Barnhart - SANS Institute Fellow (SysAdmin, Audit, Network, and Security) & Senior Director of Forensic Research, Cellebrite, One of the Digitial Forensic Investigators in the Bryan Kohberger case / Co-Author of "Practical Mobile Forensics," now in its 4th edition, www.sans.org and www.cellebrite.com and her blog: smarterforensics.com Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic  Dr. DeWayne Hendrix - Former Warden at the MDC in Brooklyn, Also served as a Warden in Sheridan, Oregon,  Former Senior Warden with the US Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons, Founder and President of A New Daylight Foundation, Author: "Who Are You?  See it Say it and Seize it" , website: newdaylightfoundation.com, @anewdaylight (IG)  @drdewaynehendrix (LinkedIn)  @anewdaylight (X-Twitter)    Annie Elise - Host of  true crime podcast "SERIALously," website: annieelise.com  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Unbelievable. Brian Coburger, the four-time convicted killer who sliced four beautiful University Idaho students dead. Brian Coburger has filed. a sexual harassment claim from behind bars over a but-f threat. He is also, after one day on the J-block, demanding a transfer and, of course, whining about the food.

Yes, Brian Coburger, four-time convicted killer, has filed a file. a sex harassment claim. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. I rarely say this, and I would never, ever say it in front of a judge or a jury, but I really don't even know where to start. Should I start with this complaint? Brokeberger says I have on several occasions not received all the items of food on my tray. I address this during service, I guess food service, like he's got a butler, and have yet to receive any placements.

In fact, the kitchen is not even called. Okay, yeah, I'm not starting. with that. I'm not starting with complaining to the butler. I'm going to start and not with the sex harassment claims with the but F complaint. I'm going to start with the victims. Take a listen to this 911 call. I don't know on location of your emergency? Hi, something is happening. Something happens in our health.

We don't know what. What is the address of the emergency? One way to help you. What is the rest of the address? Oh, King's Road. Okay. And is that a house or an apartment? Is it a house?

Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right? I'll talk to you guys. We're, um, we live at the lights where we're next to them. I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The address, 1122 King Road. And you hear the victim that live, one of the two victims that live, screaming and sobbing. And she's screaming out of the name, Zana, Ethan. And we know that Zana was attacked on.

the steps. We know that Kelly Gonzalez was unrecognizable. She was stabbed so many times in the face. Listen. She's not so much. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not waking up. Yeah. Okay. One moment. I'm getting help started that way.

Okay. Thank you. Let's go. Before I get to Brian Koberger's complaints that he is being sexually harassed through the air vents and that his His food is not up to par to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State

University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and Star of a Hit podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. These complaints are almost laughable if it weren't for the knowledge of what happened to those for students. Lay it out. Let's start with a number, seven inches, seven inches of steel being sliced, used to slice and used to stab over and over and over again, systematically one by one as he makes his way through this home.

This reptile went from the top floor to the second floor, ending lives all along the leaving a trail of horror that the police came upon that morning, and I don't think they could actually take the measure of it, Nancy. And then again, more like a rat, he sneaks out through that back door and exits and vanishes into the night after he's done this. And you want to complain? You want to complain about what faces you right now? Tell it somewhere else. Tell you The food, he's actually complaining about the food. I want to get back to what was done, what was physically done to these four students. Joe Scott Morgan, you know, my little babies are about to go off to college.

And all I can think about is Brian effing Coburger. What was done to these students? What did he do to them? And all of you trolls online that keep telling me he was set up, he played. guilty to this. Tell them, Joe Scott. Yeah, just starting off with Kaylee in the top room up there, you had mentioned earlier that she was unrecognizable. The bony structures in her face are disrupted to the point where they couldn't make a physical ID on her just by doing the visual ID because she had been so traumatized. In addition to the other stab wounds that she had received to her

torso. You think about Xana, who, you know, we've heard stories about Kaylee where, you know, from 24 to 30, Mr. Gonzalez will say in 30, 30 injuries with her, Nancy with Zana, we're talking 50 plus over and over and over again. She was cut so bad that she had grabbed hold of this blade, it had cut into her tendons of her hand so that they would literally be non-operational if she's trying to defend herself. She's got blocking injuries on both of her forearms where arms have been sliced repeatedly. You've got Ethan laying in the bed. He's got a horrible gash approximating his collarbone and his neck where he bleeds out in that spot. And, you know, we can't forget about Maddie. You know, she's brutal.

they're in bed adjacent to her best friend. They've grown up together, Nancy. They have lived life together. They've gone off to college together. And their lives both ended in that small space together because this animal comes into the house and shreds them. You know, Joe Scott, when you put it that way, as you know, we've discussed many times for years and years after my fiance's murder,

I would have night terrors. They're not just nightmares. It's where you wake up, terrorized, screaming, running. If that was just a dream, imagine, just imagine what these four beautiful, that I keep using that word beautiful students went through the night they were slurred by Koberger. And now he's claiming somebody sex harassing him through the air vent. Hey, you know, another thing, I want to go straight out to a special guest, Heather Barnhart. She's Institute Fellow at SIS admin, audit network security, senior director of forensic research at Celebrite, which is amazing.

Heather, to top it all off, after he literally slaughters these four students. he gets on the phone and you can prove this and calls his mommy. He gets comforted by his mommy. And you, Heather, have been able to analyze hours and hours of him calling mommy. Explain how you found it and what you found. On his Android device, we used Celebrate Physical Analyzer software to just parse the information. and one of the things that's right in the forefront is that Brian Coburger started calling his mom as early as 6.13 in the morning right after the murders and was on the phone with her, apparently when he returned to the scene of the crime. You mean when he goes back that morning to just see if anyone has discovered his handiwork, his masterpiece of murder, he's on the phone with his mother.

Oh, oh, my star, see, I didn't get that timing from reading. analysis. Wait a minute. I got to let this sink in for a moment. It's like, Mommy, look, look at me. And he's on the phone with his mommy while he's driving back to the scene of the crime that morning. For 54 minutes. Oh, okay. I'm going to have to go to a shrink. But first, I want to follow up with Heather Barnhart. Guys, looks and brains, amazing. Heather Barnhart, one of the digital forensic investigators on the Brian Coburger, quadruple murder case. And it wasn't just then as he's going back to survey his handiwork. He's on the phone with Mommy. He calls her first thing in the morning and they talk for an hour. Then he calls her at lunchtime. Then he has

to call her before he goes to bed at night. I mean, describe these lengthy conversations with his mother that you uncovered. Day in and day out. To go to bed, as you just said, first thing in the morning to wake up, texting and immediately calling to mother every single day. She was a huge security blanket, almost a necessity in his life. And then when he leaves home and moves to Pullman, this happens. What else did you uncover in your digital investigation, Heather? Lots of browser are searching for serial killers, as I mentioned with you previously, an obsession with himself. So researching serial killers and then immediately taking selfies to replicate what he had read. So that picture of him in the black hoodie was taken after researching Ted Bundy.

And in that research, it was Ted Bundy in that black hoodie and he replicated the photo. And of course, there are all the American Psycho selfies he took where he replicated Christian Bill. And of course, Heather, I just can't thank you enough. You were the first person to tell me that he was a fan of crime stories and had you found photos, screen grabs, I guess, of that on his phone. Yes, a screen grab very similar to this right here, of you with crime written under the headline. Okay, I'll just keep that right up here forever. Okay, I want to go back to what's happening right now. Take a listen to this. After sending his first note of complaint, after his first night in prison,

Coburger follows it up a few days later. With another note, this one given to a guard and claiming he's the victim of sexual harassment. In the note, Coburger claims one inmate is threatening to rape him, while another inmate says, the only ass we'll be eating is Coburgers.

Coburger offers up the name of a guard, he says, heard the threats and harassment, so his claims can be verified. Okay, the only ass we'll be eating is coburgers, and he was also threatened. And this is all through the, air vents that he would be quote but effed okay joining me right now annie alice she is creator and CEO of 10 to life and she is a star of serulously podcast any okay this guy Brian coberger

who admits he murdered four people is now filing a sex harassment complaint he is is very careful to say, I'm not part of the flooding of the cells. I didn't do that and complaints about the food being placed on his tray. Let's start with the sex harassment complaints. And I'm sure it's not lost on Dr. Bethany Marshall, who I'm going to in one moment, that he is the one that conducted all of the searches about raping women when they are comatose, drunk on drugs, passed out or worse before he goes and tries to murder

three sleeping girls well they were not asleep when he murdered them but that was his intent okay tell me about the complaints Annie exactly not only did he have this entire search history of him wanting to do this exact thing to other victims

but he's kind of in a roundabout way getting his wish he always wanted to be the most important guy in the room and now he is it's just in the wrong setting. And it's just the consequences of your own actions. Not only are you in prison for what you did to these poor victims, but you didn't want the death penalty. You wanted the plea deal so that you wouldn't have to face that. And this is now the consequences of that. He just strikes me as somebody who always, of course, thinks he's the smartest, that he should be treated

special, that he should be different. And we're saying that that is no different now that he is incarcerated. He still thinks he deserves that special important treatment. Okay, what exactly does he claim in his sex harassment file? So he's claiming that they are saying that they are going to, but F him. Also, those with the words of the only ass that we're going to be eating is co-burger. Annie, Annie, Annie, before you go any further, the first time, I had to curse in front of a jury. I, I, I I paused. It was like a dirt sandwich. But in about two months, I was saying every word imaginable because it's what defendants said.

And I would have to quote them what they stated, what they wrote, what they threatened. The P word, the F word, the C word, the you name it word, all came out of this mouth as I would explain things to juries. They didn't like it, but by the time the trial would be over it, they were numb to it as well. So the word butt, okay, I don't let my children say it, but you can say it. I want to hear what Koeberger is saying in his sex harassment complaint, verbatim. All right, here we go. He is saying that they are going to butt-h-h-h-h-him. He is hearing them say, the only ass that we'll be eating is Koe burgers, which, by the way, those are obviously awful things, but those pale in comparison to the searches that were on his devices.

what he wanted to do to his victims and what he turned him on and what he was interested in. So the fact that he wants any sort of empathy now and special treatment, nobody feels bad for this guy. Straight out to Troy Slayton, veteran defense attorney joining us out of L.A. Troy, he he, he, he, mommy, they threatened to hurt me through the air event. Really? And he filed a sex harassment complaint to the jail? You know what that's called, right? A rat, a snitch.

That's true, Nancy. And you know the old saying, snitches get stitches or end up in ditches. But what's important here is that we don't forget a little thing called the Constitution. I carry it around in my pocket. There's the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution, Nancy. It prohibits, as you know, cruel and unusual punishment. And if he is being subjected to physical violence, to some sort of starvation, or if the prison is not meeting its own nutritional standards, then... Slayton, has anybody said that anybody touched a hair on Coburger's head?

That's a yes, no. That has not been alleged at this point. Has anyone said that Coburger has not been given? Enough food. That's a yes, no. Well, he's claiming that in one of his complaints. No, that's not what he claimed. He's saying that the prison is not meaning.

I've not received all items of food on my tray. I address this during service, his butler, I guess, and have yet to receive replacements. Replacement means he just doesn't like, oh, he doesn't like broccoli. Get used to it. No one has starved him. one has touched him, he's complaining because the inmates are whispering at him through the air vent. Are you serious? Just put the Constitution away. Don't degrade the Constitution like that. Please. One of the guards corroborated the threats that he's receiving and just said

that they weren't able to discern which one of the inmates. Because of course, a prison guard doesn't want to get control. That's not exactly what the guards did. between the prison guard is smart enough to know not to get involved in the confrontations between inmates because that can only go bad for that. Okay, let's be clear. We have to live with those people every day. Right. Okay.

So you're claiming the guard is in on it and doesn't want to tell the truth. Actually, that's not what the guard said. He did not corroborate threats of butt effing or ass eating. This is what he said. An incident notification report is filled out by the guard who received the guard who received the second Coburger note, and the guard named by Coburger is questioned about the claims made by the admitted quadruple murderer in a report filed three days later. The guard says he recalls vulgar language being used and directed towards Coburger, but he doesn't know which

inmates made the threats. So actually, the guard says he recalls vulgar language directed toward Coburger through the air event, really? But no one has touched Coburger, no one has hurt Coburger and he's getting food. He wants a replacement. He doesn't like his block away. Okay, let's get real. This is what happened. Tell me exactly what's going on. Um, one of our, one of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and she's not like you up. Okay. Oh and they saw some man in their house outside. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, is this. And are you with the patient? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone. Stop passing it around.

tell you what happened pretty much what is going on currently is someone passed out right now i don't really know but pretty much at 4 a m okay i need to know what's going on right now if someone is passed out can you find that out yeah i'll come come come on the medical check but we have to One of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and should not wake you up. Did you on November 13, 2012, in Latak County, state of Idaho, kill and murder, Madison, Mogan, Kaylee, Gonzalez, Zana, Kronotel, Ethan Chapin. Yes. Oh, and they saw some man in their house outside. Professor Joe Scott Morgan, what exactly is arterial spray?

So you have many vessels that are directing off of the heart. And so every time the heart contracts, okay, it pumps, right? We're thinking about pumping. You hit the artery and as opposed to, say, a vein, veins kind of ooze, if you will, artery spray. So when this shipped, this is going to transport the blood through the air. And it turns out in a very specific pattern. It'll have almost, if you think about, this is the way I kind of always describe it. If you think about, say, for instance, taking a can of aerosol hairspray and spraying it on a mirror and you see that kind of fine mist that comes up on the mirror, that's kind of the way the deposition of this is.

It's very fine, tiny little particulates. And sometimes you'll see these long ranging streaks as well dependent upon the position. Of course, position changes because you've got an individual that is so incredibly butchered. They're trying to relieve the pain. They'll twist and they'll turn. And so you'll get this kind of overlapping deposition. It's a horrible thing to witness because when you're at the scene, Nancy, it's almost like death has painted on the wall in those last moments of their lives. And you can see it kind of laid out before you if you understand blood pattern deposition.

It's really quite the horror show. Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst. author of Deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock. She's at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com. Dr. Bethany, Ethan's jugular vein was slashed.

And now, Brian Koeberger, who admits to doing that to Ethan, admits to disfiguring Killingles Zovas's face. Maddie just stabbed, what, 30, 40 times? Zana brutalized. Now he is whining that someone is sex harassing him through the air event?

You know, Nancy, it makes sense to me because I also recall that one of his professors predicted that once he got his Ph.D, he would have more access to potentially assaulting and harassing women, he loved to predate. He had a pattern of predating. So I think the problem in the prison for him is he would like to anally rape others, but he doesn't like it so much when somebody wants to anally rape him. See, because then the power shifts. As long as he's doing what he did when he was a student, assistant, cornering women, cornering people into conversations, towering over them, stalking them, harassing them, slitting someone's throat, you know, stabbing a woman multiple times in the face.

As long as he is in charge, he loves it. That's why he's imitating serial killers. It reminds me of like BTK, who really, he wanted so much power not only over one victim or two victims, but over entire families all at once. But now, now that Brian Kovberger cannot engage in that reign of terror, people are doing it to him. And he does not like the reversal. Now, this thing about talking to mommy all the time, I really hate to say this on the air, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he was sexually attracted to his mother,

that this wasn't just, you know, bragging to mommy or mommy making him feel secure and safe in the world. but I think Brian Coburger eroticized and sexualized everybody. I'm not saying the mother participated in it necessarily. It could have all been just in Brian Coburger's own head. But I think he is constantly, constantly sexualizing. He just doesn't like it when other people do it to him. And one other small point, Nancy, is we have a term in my field called autoerotic. Autoerotic is when a person's sexual energy is directed back,

against the self, like they're in love with themselves. They're excited by themselves. Like maybe they might masturbate, masturbate while looking in a mirror because the thought of their own body is more exciting than anything else. So he's also stuck in that position where if somebody else in truth, like another prisoner or inmate, he's not going to like that because it's not all about him and him being in charge. Dr. Bethany, another irony, here is that he is the one that did all of those damning digital searches about raping women when they are passed out, when they are drunk, when they're on drugs, when they're comatose. And that is what he was expecting to find when he went into the king wrote

address. That is what he wanted. Because he loves being an a position of power. I mean, it's like it was at the Max Factor air who would drug women and then he would actually film himself, you know, having sex with them. The idea of the woman being comatose is the ultimate, ultimate power play. That's all it is. So when you think about somebody who needs that kind of power, all of a sudden, being behind bars, he doesn't get all of his goodies on his tray. The other prisoners are mocking him. That is just the opposite of how he's lived his entire life, which is with the illusion of being in control of the entire world. All of this, a sexual harassment complaint, whining about his food, claiming, I wish for the

items to be called for and items replaced when this, something, something, the nutritional standards are not being upheld. Really? He wants to receive, quote, replacements. Again, he doesn't like his block. Okay. That's the whole food issue that we've been hearing about since day one. If you recall, his relatives, he wanted them to buy all new cookware and cook. Not he cook it, but he wanted them the service to prepare his meals on plates and in dishes in pots and pans that had never touched meat before. This is a continuing thing with him, but about the complaints, about the complaints. Let me understand. And Chris McDonough joining me, director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective.

I found him on YouTube at the interview room. What a turn of events. Chris McDonough, maybe these words are ringing in his ears. Listen. Quick message from our youngest daughter. Aubrey wanted to say, you may have received A's in high school and college, but you're going to be getting big deal. in prison. That was it sentencing. And that had to sink in somewhere in here. Really, he's complaining

about people whispering to him through the vent. That's what we're talking about. This guy who slaughtered, who ripped apart four beautiful coeds ripped them apart with a military K-Bart knife. That guy is whining about his broccoli and the other inmates taunting him through the heating vent. Yeah, Nancy, and let's remind the world, we broke that here on your show. And at this point, if we look on the Department of Corrections website, they call their inmates residents, okay? Well, here's a call coming in, Brian.

This is not a hotel. And what Brian's about to understand is that his virginity, as we speak, is being traded for half a cigarette. and that his mother had better packed some commissary orders so that he has items to trade. I mean, when we talk about the kitchen sending in food, just wait until he gets the special. He wanted to cosplay a killer. Now he's going to hang out with them. They will show him no mercy.

Guys, you are seeing a leaked video still trying to authenticate it. All the gills are going, hey, it's not us. But McDonough pointed out, as did a lot of. of people online after you spoke, McDonough, that this is in a medical unit somewhere. And we think it was videoed by someone on their cell phone of a security video, much like the Cass Ventura beat down in the Sean Combs prosecution. That was a cell phone video of a CCTV feed. Okay.

Now, I want to address the actual complaints, the complaints. But Chris McDonough, when you said, this ain't the Ritz-Coburger, what did you mean by that? Actually, I paraphrase, but what do you mean this ain't a hotel? Well, I think Brian, you know, he did not anticipate, you know, what the totality of his behavior was going to be. Just like he didn't anticipate the victims in those rooms that evening. And for some reason, and it's obviously above my pay grade, it's for the, it's for the, the docs to tell us. But, you know, here's a guy that cosplay, just what we heard, Ted Bundy, in that

in that booty picture. And he doesn't realize, or maybe he does, I don't know, obviously he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but at some point, he, the man's getting, a man's got a PhD in criminology. He's no idiot. Well, that's piled higher and deeper and stupid. That's what that comes down to. I mean, I don't, I think he's, you know, just not the sharpest tool and evident of the fact that, you know, everything he does.

Look in those complaints where he talks about reciting back the policies to the agency. Are you kidding me? You know, this guy's already read the policy book. And so he's going to be a real treat for the inmates. And for the wardens. Hey, Dr. Bethany Marshall, did you hear what McDonough said that he is not. crediting Koberger with being too smart. I disagree. I think Koeberger is smart. Wiley. Also, you don't just have a Ph.D. fall in your lap. But I wonder if he has been so cosseted

and so protected by mommy and daddy. I mean, growing up on the mean streets of the Poconos, please. Right. You know, Anthony, you can be smart, but you can also be disturbed, pathological, have poor logic, think everything refers back to yourself, have a poor ability to track with what goes on in the minds of people around you. So he may have a high IQ in terms of learning, but a very low emotional EQ. You know, this whole thing about the food and the new pan. Dr. Bethany, what are you talking about? A low emotional. What did you say EQ? I don't care. I don't care. It's like, la. Don't care. His emotional, what? The guy murdered four children. They were babies. They hadn't even held down full-time jobs yet. They were living

the life in college. Look at them. He slaughtered them. Don't give me anything about his emotional, what, IQ, whatever you said. It doesn't matter. He slaughtered them. I don't care why he did it. I don't care about his motive. He took them. They're never coming home and they died a horrible death. And you're telling me about Koberger's emotional IQ?

What? Hey, but Nancy, it takes a lot of intelligence to pull something like that off to get through a PhD program, to get away with everything he did. You know, it takes planning. It takes driving by. It takes, you know, rendering, you know, four people helpless, killing. four people. I mean, you really have to have thought something through to do that. I'm not trying to give him credit, but I'm saying he got a whole degree to prepare to prepare for

this crime. I mean, think about it. Bethany, Bethany, Bethany, hold on. I need to look at your monitor. He is proud. This is right after the murders. Thumbs up. Self-aggrandizing smile, all cleaned up. He probably boiled himself in the shower. All the bloody clothes, the bloody evidence. It's all gone. And here he is. Thumbs up, guys. I did it. I now know what it feels like to murder for innocent people. And you're talking about an emotional IQ. I've never heard anything like it in my life. Hey, Nancy, this is his doctoral dissertation. You know how when you get through a PhD program, you have to write a thesis paper and an about documents everything that you've learned and you have to make a unique contribution to a body of literature.

This is his dissertation. This is what he was preparing for the whole time. This is why he was able to pull it off. Quick message from our youngest daughter. Aubrey wanted to say, you may have received A's in high school and college, but you're going to be getting big D's in prison. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He has access to all of those digital photographs. These photos are like a serial killer's pornography. It's quite chilling. Living salaciously off of the details of the crime. He's going to sit in jail and all day long because I don't think he feels much at all.

Right. Brian Coburger. who confessed he shredded with a K-bar knife for innocent, quasi-sleeping Idaho students. Now he has filed a sexual harassment claim that he's being threatened behind bars through the air vents, okay, if that's a threat, and that he doesn't like his food. to Annie, Elise, joining us. She is a star podcast serilessly. Annie, isn't it true that after one night on J-block, he demands a transfer?

You think those victims can get a transfer out of those coffins? That's not happening. But he wants off the J-block, Annie? And what's so interesting, too, is we talked earlier about his searches and what he's wanted to do to victims and what he was interested in. there were so many reports from people that he went to school with and other professors about how he was very domineering. He would block the hallways. He would stand over people watching them just in their face all of the time. He's now complaining over something where they're not

even in his face. They're not blocking him. They're not touching him. It's through the vents. And he can't even take. Which look at your past behavior. It's just, in my opinion, you reap what you sow. It could not be happening to a nicer person. Dr. Duane Hendrick. I'd like to follow up on what Annie Elise from Serulously just said. Guys, Dr. Hendricks, former warden and one of the toughest CI correctional institutes in the country, MDC and Brooklyn, also Warden in Oregon, former senior warden U.S. DOJ, author of Who Are You, See It, Say It, Sees It, and he's at the New Daylight Foundation.com. Dr. Dwayne Hendricks. Really? He wants off the J-Block after,

one night thoughts you know that nasty i'm going to take a a page out of chris statement about the hotel you just can't walk in a room don't like the atmosphere and go down to the lobby and say hey give me another room because i just don't i'm not feeling the king size bed i want to double or and i want a sweet or something like that you know as the bureaucrat on the line uh unfortunately we have to take his claim seriously about being potentially butt and it doesn't make any sense because this is the weakest and most meritless prison rape elimination act claim in the history of prison or corrections. I mean, he is in a cell, a single cell by himself. Every inmate that moves on that J block has to be restrained in wherever they move,

whether it's to the shower or wherever they're going. So I think, and to take a page out of Dr. Bethany's comments about playing the long game, what I think he's trying to do is he's trying to set a scene to where if they ever put him in a cell with someone else and he is assaulted, he wants to go on record to say, hey, bear put me in a position to be harmed so that he can possibly be moved to a different facility. Unlike the feds where we try to trade our bad inmates all the time when we're dealing with inmates that we really don't want in our facilities. he is at the one maximum prison in the state of Idaho. So the only way he can leave that facility is if he becomes a state border with another state correctional agency or the feds pick him up.

And nobody's going to pick this guy up. So, you know, three things I always talk about. You don't want to be in prison, a snitch, which he's now, because now he's ratting on inmates. Number two, harming women, you know. And also now, and the other thing is he's a malingerer, you know, so now inmates don't like other inmates that bring attention to these housing units and where they live. So it's going to be a long road for the inmates population because of him being a rat now, but it's also going to be a lot of paperwork, a lot of following up because they have to respond to every claim that he has because if something happens to him, then he may have merit to whatever habeas petition. that he may have based on his conditions.

Dr. Henry's, you just told me so much. I try to write it all down. I'm having to dissect it now. That was a lot of information. Are you telling me that he's in the only max in that area? So if he is transferred, he's transferred to a local jail-like in Mayberry? No, he's not going to Mayberry. And I'm going to tell you right now, the only way he would ever leave Idaho is if there's an inmate

and another jurisdiction has given that jurisdiction and so many problems, they say, you know what, we need a break from this person, we'll take him on. But I just don't see that happening. But I believe he's playing the long game with his incarceration. And he's trying to set it up to where if he does get harmed, then he can say, look, I was complaining from day one. And this happened to me a year from now, even three, four years from now, if he's assaulted. So I feel sorry for those folks in the state.

of Idaho because they're going to have a long road dealing with this guy. What about the food complaints? And he notes, he puts it, hey, let's see the complaints, guys, the handwritten complaints. I wish to speak with you. I wish to speak with you. I want to be

transferred immediately to the B block. B as in brother. The food whining. What about that, Hendricks? Look, again, like Chris said earlier,

he's going to get the special because the inmates prepare the food the inmates are the ones to make sure the portion sizes are right and they also try to have diversity in the kitchen so that some inmates don't get smaller portions and other gets larger based on their gang

affiliation or race affiliation he is a guy I don't care what color he is I don't care what gang he think he might be. He's going to be a guy that every inmate hates in that facility so he needs to shut up be quiet and hope that he doesn't get the special

every time his tray comes down the range because the inmates in special housing helps the officer. What do you mean by, quote, the special? It could be some bodily fluid there are some other things in that in his tray. That's what I mean by the special. So, you know, I hate for somebody to urine in it, maybe put some poop in it, maybe, you know,

there's not or whatever whatever special they want to come up with that's the special okay chris mcdonna jump in i i i love ward hendricks this that's exactly what's going to happen just so much just love him so much just just wait until the inmates uh figure out that this guy brian coger sees them as bugs he he this guy thinks he's above everybody above every consequence, but the inmates have already figured him out. And what, you know, we talked about a couple of weeks ago, Nancy, on your show is they were waiting for him because somehow they had figured him out. And now he's just digging a ditch worse and worse.

And, you know, Doc is right. This, he's just going to be an absolute disaster to manage. You know what, Dr. Bethany Marshall, it's not going to get. He's never going to stop. No. And I say that because, you know, my theory is when you don't know a horse, look at his track record, even though he was told to stop, he never quit bullying women that he taught. Remember, he was a teaching assistant. That's right.

I mean, his bad behavior happened over and over and over again. And he sees himself now as the victim, Dr. Bethany. Mm-hmm. Yes, he does. And so you're right. Past behavior is a predictor of future behavior. So some of the complaints lodged against him when he was a student. He cornered one guy into a three-hour conversation.

And this fellow student wanted to report Koberger as having verbally kidnapped him, which I think is fascinating. He would have no body space between him and other women. He would use ablest, sexist, misogynist language. which he would power over women. He would try to intimidate them. He can't do that with the other inmates, Nancy. So now he's trying to do it with the prison guards and the staff.

And I think what Dr. Hendrick said so beautifully is that he is going to try to threaten and undermine and manipulate the authority of the bureaucracy of the prison. But all he's doing is creating a nightmare for other people. He's not going to be able to get traction. You know, the serial killer that Coburger reminds me of the most is BTK. And I'll tell you why, BTK was such a messy killer, but he was so rigid. He was the dog catcher in the neighborhood. He was the local deacon.

He would complain if people's grass was too long. I mean, he sort of, it was his own little mini brain of terror over his neighborhood. and now co-worker is doing the exact same thing with the dishes and the pans and the what's coming through the air vents. It's like he still believes he's in charge even though he's behind bars. And I like that Dr. Hendricks pointed out sort of how conniving it is that he's actually trying to get himself transferred. That is not just arrogance on a small scale, but this guy has all day long to sit around and plot and plan and try to. to think about how to get himself out of there, and people are going to have to respond. In a sense, he's harassing the prison.

You know what, Dr. Bethany, let me give you my expert legal analysis. Okay. Boo effing who. And the reason I say boo effing who, Koeberger, is because of this. Joe Scott, reality check, what was done to the victims? Pure, unadulterated slaughter over and over and over again, blood-soaked is the way I would describe it. And let me, if you like that, let me give you one more piece. He might be sentenced to prison for the rest of his life, but these kids paid with their lives.

And guess who else is paying? Their families. Their families will be in a prison for the rest of their days because of what this is. guy has done, Nancy. Now, we remember an American hero, Officer Matthew Baxter, Kissimmee Police Department, Florida. Just 27, shot down in the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving wife, Sadia, and three children.

American hero, officer Matthew Baxter. Nancy Gray signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an IHeart podcast.