Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - UNSOLVED: Girl, 10, Snatched from Ohio Bay Shopping Strip, Family Gets Bizarre Calls

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

Amy Mihaljevic was just 10 years old when she went missing. She told friends at school the day she disappeared that she was going with someone to buy her mom a surprise gift. Eyewitnesses reported seeing Amy speaking with a white male, at a local ice cream shop and then leaving with him through a parking lot.  Later police discover that Mihaljevic and other girls in the area had been contacted by telephone by the abductor. The estimated 30-something-year-old man arranged to meet Mihaljevic after school. Just over three months later,  Amy's body was found by a jogger in a farm field in a nearby town.  Investigators say it appears the little girl's body was most likely dumped shortly after her abduction. Mihaljevic dies from a combination of stab wounds to the neck and a blow to her head. Some of the things that were known to be with or on Mihaljevic that day have never been found: the boots Amy was wearing, a denim backpack, a binder with "Buick, Best in Class" written on it, and turquoise earrings in the shape of horse heads.   TIPLINE: Bay Village Police Department [phone] Joining Nancy Grace Today: Shera LaPoint - Genetic Genealogist, Author: "The Gene Hunter", Founder: TheGeneHunter.com, Twitter: @LapointShera   Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com  Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Psychologist (Panama City Beach, FL), Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: "Operation S.O.S.", bw-institute.com Greg Smith - Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County Sheriff's Office (Kansas),  Executive Director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, www.kelseysarmy.com   Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant, DMichelleDupreMD.com  Nichole Vrsansky - News Anchor, CBS 19 News, Facebook: "Nichole Vrsansky Cleveland 19", Twitter: @NVrsansky, Podcast: "Dark Side of the Land, Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic?"   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bay Village police are seeking a little girl who failed to return home from school this afternoon. That brief but disturbing message started the search for 10-year-old Amy. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Fox 8. I called my mom who then said no, she had choir practice that Friday, which was odd.

And then she still wasn't home and I called her again. Amy had called her mom that afternoon, apparently in between Jason's two calls, apparently to reassure her. Authorities believe she was with her abductor when she made that call. As time passed though, when Jason called his mom a second time, the fear grew. And of course I said everything into motion and everyone knew something was wrong. Okay, let's go ahead. A massive search ensued. So when she's not home, when she's supposed to be home, everyone began feeling uneasy. She was supposed to have

choir that afternoon on Friday afternoon. The 10-year-old little girl didn't come home. You're hearing her brother Jason speaking. Take a listen again to our friends at Fox 8. Amy disappeared from that square across the street after meeting a man who had called her at home. He indicated that he wanted to help Amy buy a surprise gift for her mother Margaret who had received a promotion at work, something that was true and he knew. Amy was never seen alive again. Her brother Jason was the first person to sense something wrong that October day. Amy got out of school about an hour earlier than he did, meaning Amy was almost always the first one home I came

home to an empty house which was rare how would the kidnapper know about the mom's promotion did the ten-year-old girl and winningly tell him that how did he know how to reach her all these questions surrounding the disappearance of a beautiful 10-year-old little girl, Amy Mihaljevic. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. First of all, straight out to special guests joining us, news anchor from CBS 19, Nicole Vrcansky. Nicole, thank you for being with us. And you can find her at Nicole Vrcansky, Cleveland 19. Nicole, thanks for being with us. Tell me

about the afternoon that Amy went missing. Amy, 10 years old. She's in fifth grade. She rides her bike to school. And that afternoon, specifically that afternoon in her class, she had an officer speaking in her class about stranger danger. And we know that she left her bike at school and she walked about a block away after she got out of school to meet a man. She told a couple friends she was going there to meet someone to buy a gift from her mom. And she walks a couple blocks away from school. It's an ice cream shop. There's an ice cream shop in this plaza. It's a popular after school hangout. And she's seen the last time Amy Mihaljevic is seen is two other 10-year-old boys saw her there with a man. She turned toward the parking lot with him, never to be seen again.

You're scaring me so much right now because the twin school is right down the hill from a frozen custard, it's like ice cream shop. And any time between 12 and 4, you can see a parade of students going up and down that sidewalk. It's a good little hike. It's about maybe a quarter of a mile to get there, but it's a hangout, and they all go there. That's exactly the same picture here. And what's so disturbing about this, Nancy, is if you talk to Amy's dad, Mark, Amy wasn't one to go hang out and talk to a stranger. She was a sweet girl, smart girl,

got A's and B's, but she wouldn't go up to someone. She never talked to strangers. So the person she was meeting wasn't a stranger to her. This is someone she felt she knew and she could trust. Now, it's interesting that you say, Nicole Vrasansky, joining us, CBS 19, that it's someone she knew. But your and my definition of someone she knew is very different from a child's idea of someone they know. Because join me right now, Dale Carson, high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. You can find him at DaleCarsonLaw.com.

Dale, in all your work with the FBI and all my work dealing with child kidnap, child murder, child molestation, you can ask a child, well, who was it? And they go, well, the janitor or the yard man or the guy at the ice cream shop. They may not even know the name of the person, yet they think they know the man at the ice cream shop. He's there almost every afternoon, and he's talked to her in the past about her family and her siblings and her dog and her bike, and she thinks she knows him, but she doesn't. Children don't think the way we do. That's exactly right.

And more to the point, Nancy, you know, the children's frame of reference is fairly small. And the result is anybody they know becomes important to them when they wouldn't be important to adults at all. You know, that's really interesting that you said that. Let me go to Dr. Jory Croson, joining us, psychologist and professor at St. Leo University, consultant, author of Operation SOS. Dr. Jory, what do you make of what Carson just said, that a child's world is so small that the people that they do know have a significant importance to them? Yeah, and the big point, too, is that they're very trusting. And when you look at how freely we give trust into other people, you know, just a little bit of information. If this person were to say something that she may know about some of her friends or her parents or something like that, you see there's that connection now.

And with that connection now comes trust. You know, Nicole Vrasansky is joining us, news anchor CBS 19. Nicole, you told me that she mentioned to several of her friends who the guy was. She mentioned to two of her friends. She never told her brother, never told her family. And the indication is that this man called her at home at least once, but likely more. But she did confide in two friends at school that day that she was going after school to meet this man to buy a gift for her mom for a work promotion. wasn't really promoted. She was going from part-time to full-time, but had enough information to know that about Amy and be able to lure her with the promise of, you know, here she is, she's a 10-year-old little girl thinking she's doing something wonderful for her mom. She's

going to surprise her with a gift. And that just breaks your heart when you think of just the innocence and the sweet act of what she had intended to do. Greg Smith joining me, Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County Sheriff's Office and Executive Director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, named after his daughter who was kidnapped and murdered, Kelsey. Greg, thank you for being with us. You know, when I'm hearing Nicole Vrsiansky describe 10-year-old Amy, it almost makes me want to cry because this little girl is so trusting, and she thinks the kidnapper is going to take her to buy a present for her mom's promotion.

Yeah, and that's the sad truth of the thing in a number of ways. One, it's too bad that in our society you can't trust other people. But two, that's exactly what kids do. I mean, I have eight grandkids, and they're all so sweet and innocent, and you listen to them talk about who their friends are or who they met. And in today's world now, there's social media and, you know, you can, boom, somebody appears on a tablet or a phone. And if you've got school-age kids, chances are the school's giving you that equipment. So now

they're bringing that equipment home because they need it for school, but it can be used for other purposes. So the world has changed and in a lot of ways, not for the better. Her mind was occupied with getting a surprise gift for her mother, for her mom's promotion. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me, Dr. Michelle Dupree, who wrote, literally wrote the book, Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, very often we see a child kidnapper or molester get to know the child. It's called grooming. And I guarantee you, he got the information out of this child about her mom getting the promotion and then used that as a weapon to lure her into leaving her home,

her school, the ice cream shop to go off with him to get a promotion gift. Yes, Nancy, that's exactly right. And that's what they do is they become friends, and I put those in air quotes, with that child. And they know things about them, and they seem like they're very familiar. And so they gain that child's trust. And the parents would have no idea what was going on, Dr. Dupree, because she's a latchkey kid like I was. When we got off school, we walked literally over a mile home. My mom and dad were both at work. We knew how to get into the home and we stayed there until they got home or went and played or

whatever. And there was not a thought in the world that anything bad could happen. I bet the parents didn't even know this guy existed. That's right, Nellie. At least not in that capacity. They may have known the person or they may have been acquainted with him, but certainly they did not know that the child was involved with them. Was that you jumping in, Dale Carson? Because obviously they had met before because she told her friends,

my friend's going to take me to buy my mom a gift. They had obviously had phone conversations and had met, and I bet they met at that ice cream shop. But I'll tell you, the method of operation here, the MO, is a bit unusual. And one wonders whether or not this has happened in other locations, which would lead you to a potential suspect. Nancy, there were multiple other girls in the same general area who got a phone call. And if you talk to detectives on the case, they believe it was from this same man. Wow. Okay. You're hearing Nicole Versansky

jump in. I'm so glad you told me that. Nicole's joining us CBS 19. I didn't know that. Tell me about that. Other little girls got phone calls? There were calls before and after Amy disappeared. North Olmstead is a town just a few miles outside of Bay Village, but the only connection investigators were ever able to make between these girls and Amy's case is just the proximity, that they all lived in the same general vicinity. There was no other real link that they could ever find between these girls. Nicole Vrstansky joining us, CBS 19. What would he say on the phone to the other girls? It was the same M.O. I want to take you shopping.

It's got to be the same guy. Who's calling 10-year-old little girls and saying I want to take you shopping? Well, the search ensued for 10-year-old little Amy, her family distraught, and then a twist in the case. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 8. 104 days later, we find her in Ashland County. Amy's body was discovered by a jogger in a field in Ashland County, which is about 50 miles south of Bay Village. Investigators believe Amy's killer may have been familiar with the area since it's in a very remote location. About 10 feet off the roadway right in this area.

Sheriff's Deputy Carl Reichardt was the first law enforcement officer on scene. Thrown on the side of the road like trash. That tells me a lot. The M.O., the modus operandi method of operation of disposal of the body, but also about this remote location. Nicole Versansky joining us, CBS 19. You know, you were just saying that other girls in the general area had also been getting calls from an adult male that wanted to

take them shopping. He had to put together their names and phone numbers. He had to have contact with them to figure out their names and how to locate their numbers. He was watching other girls. This may not be his only victim. As far as that remote location, could you describe the location for me, Nicole Vrasansky? It's in the middle of nowhere, Nancy, and there was nothing. This is God's country. This is farm fields that span for miles and miles. So the person who did this to Amy had to be familiar with that location in Ashland County. You don't just stumble upon this field. I want to point out a case similar in this aspect, at least. And this case is a textbook example

for so many aspects of murder. Greg Smith, joining us, Johnson County Sheriff's Office, is Scott Peterson. That's an example of committing a crime or disposing of evidence in a place with which you are familiar. Scott Peterson murdered his wife Lacey and their unborn child Connor, and he went to one of his old fishing holes to dump the body, the San Francisco Bay, and then places himself at the scene of the murder on the day of the murder. Lacey and Connor wash ashore a couple months later, but that's where he is familiar.

That was comfortable for him. He felt he knew the area. So I think, Greg, that Nicole Vrasansky's right. Yeah, I mean, they look for places that are familiar to them where they do feel comfortable. In addition, I mean, those of them that do some planning and really think about these things and are career criminals, if they have familiar places and they're seen in those familiar places, it also sets up an alibi for them when something is found, DNA or something else. Well, yeah, but I'm always in this area.

You're just trying to pin this on me because people have seen me here. You know, another issue is, I was alluding to earlier, about how he could connect little girls. He meets at, for instance, the ice cream shop with their home address. If he can get their home address out of them or their phone number, it's simple. If he could get their parents' name, he can. You can go online and Google a name, a city, and get a set of phone numbers. Or if you still use the old phone book, you could do it that way. Is that Dale? Jump in. Yeah. numbers or if you still use the old phone book you could do it that way who is that dale good

jump in yeah you know it's so easy to trick a young child you simply make the phone call and we should all be aware of this and you say i'm jacked i'm friends with your dad and i how's your mom doing is she okay what's going on And the child just liberates that information because they have no fear. They don't have the frame of reference which teach them not to tell people stuff like that. And if they've not been warned about stranger danger, then they just open up because there's a belief, and they do believe, that that person has a direct connection with a family, even though they may not be aware of it. And another thing, it's scary, Dr. Jory Croson, and I've tried this on my own children. Dr. Jory is joining a psychologist faculty, St. Leo University, and author.

Dr. Jory, studies have shown that you can tell your children over and over about stranger danger, about what to do if a car approaches you, or what to do if somebody comes to the door and you don't know them. But children, immediately after hearing it, and you just heard Nicole Vrzanski tell us, they had a stranger danger speaker in their class the day that Amy goes missing. And she still went with this guy. I've done it with my own twins and they, you know, they don't process the way adults process and studies show that. Yeah. And they're, again, they're so trusting and it's so easy to disarm them and establish that trust.

One thing too, I wanted to add in on this location. You know, when I dealt with sex offenders and evaluated them in court, you always want to get into their fantasy. And, you know, we know like serial killers would take momentums and trophies and stuff. There's connections of where they leave the body and the fantasy with it so being an out in an area where it's secluded like she said and this time you drive for miles you know there's a good chance he revisited it and that was part of his fantasy to go back out there not even get close to the body but by driving out there he's still going to start this fantasy process in his mind. Explain what that means, Dr. Jory Cross and psychologist,

about living out the fantasy, including the disposal of the body. That is psychologically the deviancy, the perversion. That's the reward. And if you can, as a psychologist, okay, doing like a Jimmy Rice evaluation, if I can get into that and tap into that, that's where a lot of these whys and other things, even though we may not understand them, but there's a lot heart. That's the reasoning in his deviation and perversion, call it all the psychological terms, is evilness, basically. To think about the way that this young girl was thrown dead on the side of the road

is so upsetting, it is so callous. Listen to our friends at WKYC. That body has been positively identified as that of Amy Mihaljevic. But it all came to a heartbreaking end about a quarter of a mile down this quiet country road. February 8th, the day the body of Amy Mihaljevic was found in a field in Ashland County, 50 miles from her home in Bay Village. When it was found there, it was only about 15 feet from the road, uncovered and in plain sight of numerous people driving by. She'd been stabbed, beaten, and sexually assaulted. The manner of disposal of this body brings two cases to mind.

One is a case I investigated and covered, Chanel Petro Nixon. Beautiful young teen girl. She went out of the apartment for an errand and was never seen alive again. Her body was found in a trash bag left on Kingston Avenue, it also brings to mind the case of Nicole Lovell, 13-year-old little girl that was lured out of her home by a Virginia Tech student, David Eisenhower. And she was found naked and wiped down with some type of alcohol wipe and thrown naked off the side of the road. What does that mean to you, Dr. Jory, the disposal of the body like it's trash?

Well, it can mean several things. And, you know, that's where like the behavioral aspects, like how it's placed. You know, if it's just a card that's, like, trash, like you say, if it's wrapped up in a bag. You know, sometimes they're posed is the word that we use. You know, they're staged. They're significant to how that body. Guys, take a listen to our friends at WEWS. Amy disappeared from Bay Village Shopping Center on October 27th.

Police say she'd gotten a call from a man luring her to a nearby shopping plaza with the promise to help her buy a gift for her mom. Well, four months later, a jogger found her body 50 miles away. Police have a database, they say, of more than 12,000 names connected to this case, but so far, no arrests. Her dad says he is not giving up. It's just going to take just that one person. You don't keep, you don't do something like that and keep it a secret without telling somebody else about it. Nicole Vrasansky joining us from CBS 19. Amy, just age 10, who disappears, her body found, assaulted and thrown by the side of the road. Her dad very, very rarely speaks of it.

I understand, Nicole, that the heartbreak is still very close to the surface. And see, he's never gone down the road where Amy's body was found. He sees absolutely no reason. He has every reason in the world to be bitter and to be an angry man, and he is still just such an incredibly kind, sweet, nice man. But the heartbreak, you can still see the emptiness in his eyes. He loves to talk about Amy and, you know, and he will, and he'll smile and he'll talk about how when she was five and six, she was diving off the high dive and just what an athlete she was and how much she

loved horses. And he, she used to draw, draw him horses. He showed me a picture once of, she drew him this horse and he and it was polka dotted. And you can see the smile in his eyes and then, you know, and then he'll pause and it just, it gets empty. Time doesn't heal a wound like this. Nicole Vrzanski joining us from CBS 19 and the store of podcast Dark Side of the Land, who killed Amy Mihaljevic. I want to talk to Dr. Michelle Dupree again, not only author of Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide, but medical examiner, pathologist, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.

What do you make of the mode of murder, Dr. Dupree? Well, Nancy, there's a couple of things. One, I'd like to just go back a moment and talk about the method of disposal. This is very open. It is, there's no forensic countermeasures taken. This is a disorganized killer. Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. When you just throw out the term forensic countermeasures, explain. So forensic countermeasures are things that people may do to try and hide the crime. They take some type of staging would be a forensic countermeasure. In this case, you know, the body wasn't staged.

It was just sort of left. You mean like Alex Murdoch using two guns to suggest someone else was involved in the killing. Got it. Exactly. Exactly. So no countermeasures here. And what does that mean to you in addition to the mode of death? So that means to me that it's basically sort of not very well planned, if you will. And again, that it's a disorganized type of killer.

They may have done this before um that's actually um very good because there was some there was some other children that were contacted he was looking to do this um and i think that's obvious by the whole scenario nancy if i could jump in for just a moment as far as there are indications we know yes this is nicole go ahead because i was going to ask you about uh prior hang-up calls but go ahead um there are indications that her amy's body was wrapped in a blanket and a curtain and there are also items that were taken from her there are items that are missing to this day that Amy was wearing the day she disappeared. Interesting. I wonder if those were souvenirs. And about that curtain,

take a listen to our friends at News 5 Cleveland. Bay Village police are so focused on this curtain found 300 yards away from Mihaljevic's body in a field in Ashland County. It was always thought that they were connected somehow. And now through the advance of DNA technology and testing, we've been able to determine that Amy's hair was actually on that curtain. Investigators urge anyone who can help identify this curtain to contact them. The curtain is very unique. It almost looks to be handmade. Back to you, Nicole Vrstansky. Tell me again about clothing missing from 10-year-old

Amy's body and the curtain. Turquoise horsehead earrings, gone. Okay, wow. Turquoise horsehead earrings, okay. Black ankle height riding boots, a black leather binder that her dad gave her. It has a Buick Baskin-Class on it, her book bag, and a white windbreaker. Those items are very likely in the possession of the person who did this to Amy. Nicole Vrasansky, you are so right. To Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, killers, especially serial killers, keep mementos of their victims. It can be, like in this case, earrings, shoes, underwear. It could be all sorts of things. What motivates them to do that?

That's part of that fantasy. They can relive it and adjust it, fit it into their demented mind as to how it came about. So, you know, they call them, you know, trophies, but they are things to remember this behavior, this act, this person again in their mind. Again, when you tie in the sexual offenders, it has to do with the violence and the perversion, that fantasy life that they have. Dale Carson joining me, high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former fed with the

FBI. Dale, I'm a big scrapbooker. In my mind, killers take these mementos from their victims just the same way I would put ticket stubs or a photo in one of my scrapbooks. Well, it's the remembrance, but I taught this for the Bureau, the sex offenders. And I will simply tell you it's part of the ritualization. And what you find is that they behave this way and it changes and gets more internally complex over time. So that's one way to track a serial killer.

You find that they do it this way. It's not successful. They have to add something to it as part of the ritualization. And that's how we can track these individuals over time and see how long they've been engaged in the activity. So when you see a disorganized killer like this who simply throws the body out and throws the containing material out at a different location and is very disorganized, you'll find that they become better at it as they move along. It's frightening.

Guys, speaking of the curtain that Nicole Vrshansky first told us of, almost a handmade-looking curtain, a curtain that was found yards and yards away from her body, now reveals that one of her hairs was on that curtain. It did not come from her family home. Take a listen to our friend Peggy Gallick-Fox, 8. Law enforcement officials have taken DNA samples from people as recently as a couple months ago. We just don't want to miss anything, and that's why they're continuing. And a detective with the Bay Village Police Department tells the I-Team that a lot of the DNA testing they are doing now is to help eliminate possible suspects and to make sure any of the DNA they do have is not what they refer to as contamination DNA,

such as a hair from a law enforcement agent that was at the scene. So we're always ruling people out or checking people that were previous suspects. crime stories with nancy grace law enforcement officials have taken dna samples from people as recently as a couple months ago we just don't want to miss anything and that's why they're they're continuing. And a detective with the Bay Village Police Department tells the I-Team that a lot of the DNA testing they are doing now is to help eliminate possible suspects and to make sure any of the DNA they do have is not what they refer to as contamination DNA, such as a hair from a law enforcement agent that was at the scene. So we're always ruling people out or checking people that were previous suspects. Joining me right now, a very special guest, you know her well, Shira LaPointe, genetic

genealogist, author of The Gene Hunter, that's G-E-N-A, and founder of TheGeneHunter.com. On Twitter, LaPointe Shira. Shira, thank you for being with us. Boy, do we need you now. You know, you can't just run the hair. We have to now use very sophisticated mitochondrial DNA analysis, and that type of analysis has been refined, dealing specifically with contaminated DNA.

What do you make of what you're hearing? What should be done DNA-wise? Hey, sure, before you answer that question, listen to our friends at WKYC. A 10-year-old girl who loved horses and wore a cross around her neck in one of the most shared missing children's posters of all time. Murdered. Her killer never caught. While her story became the subject of documentaries, featured over the years on talk shows, as investigators continued their public outreach with billboards, sharing as well this handmade curtain and blanket found within feet of Amy's body.

Believe she was wrapped in it, hoping that someone might recognize where it came from. But so far, nothing. Okay, Cheryl LaPointe, you're the genetic genealogist. Do your thing. Nancy, we have a quilt that was made into a curtain. Someone cut off a corner and made tabs. That tells me that if we can get DNA off that curtain, it would tell us, number one,

possibly who made the curtain, where it comes from, but also she was wrapped in that homemade curtain. We shed approximately 400,000 epithelial cells a day. Whoever carried her and left her in that field, it's a good chance their DNA is actually on that curtain. And nowadays, we can take degraded DNA from a curtain that she was wrapped in 32 years ago and find small amounts of DNA to get an accurate profile and figure out using genetic genealogy, who touched that curtain? And that's going to give us some answers. They were able to prove that it was her hair on that curtain, but there are new forensic-grade genome sequencing DNA that can be done now to help us figure this out. How hard is it, Cheryl, to point the gene hunter to extract usable DNA from a contaminated source? It has been historically very, very difficult to do.

But with the advancements in DNA technology, that we have private forensic labs that are doing work like Ophram that can take these cases with little evidence or degraded DNA, and they can break it down and it would give genetic information that would help us build a family tree to figure out whose DNA is on that curtain. Based on epithelial cells, skin cells that were left on the curtain? Absolutely. That is the DNA that you would be looking at. And it it would be autosomal DNA that could be used to figure this out. And it would tell us, number one, in my opinion, who maybe even who made the curtain, where the curtain came from.

And I just I have to believe that the perpetrator's DNA is absolutely on that curtain. You know, I'm curious, Nicole Vrstansky joining us, CBS 19 and star of Dark Side of the Land, who killed Amy Mihaljevic. Nicole, she had been sex assaulted. Was there no sperm left behind? Let's consider she was likely dumped very shortly after she was abducted. She was in that field until February. Gosh, yeah. But I do want to mention over the past, speaking to testing and DNA testing, over the past two years, they've spent about $75,000 on advanced DNA testing. And again, that biggest hurdle is that this is 32 years old.

And that is a big factor in the quality of any of the DNA that they do test. And then there's a risk there because oftentimes when you're testing this evidence, you're ruining that evidence. Well, there is a way that DNA can be extended. You regenerate the DNA in the lab to create enough DNA to perform additional tests. Not always true, but often true. Is there a twist in the case? Take a listen to our cut nine, our friends at News 5 Cleveland. The details come straight out of recently filed court documents.

They're the sworn statements of the lead detective with Bay Village Police, following up on a tip suggesting a now 64-year-old man could be Amy Mihaljevic's killer. According to a sworn affidavit, that tip came back in January 2019. A woman told detectives she suspected her ex-boyfriend killed the 10-year-old Bay Village girl. We're not naming the man since he hasn't been charged with anything. According to police, she said the man never came home the night Amy Mihaljevic disappeared from the Bay Village Square shopping center. And more in our Cut 10 from News 5 Cleveland. Investigators say the woman did hear from the man that night, though.

A phone call asking if she was aware of news coverage about Amy's disappearance. During that call, the woman told police the man said his niece and brother's family knew Mihaljevic. In fact, police say the man's niece was the same age and in the same grade as Amy. And the woman also believes she recalled her ex-boyfriend tell her he knew Amy. For years, police have said prior to her abduction, the 10-year-old received a phone call from a man wanting to arrange a meeting with the girl to help pick out a gift for Amy's mother. So that's amazing to me, Nicole Versansky, that this now 64-year-old man says that his niece was the same age and the same grade as Amy. Why would this guy be asking, had she seen the news coverage? Isn't it true he walked into the police station and gave a statement? These are all incredible questions, Nancy,

but I will tell you, detectives are keeping pretty tight to their vest with this one. They have their eye on suspects, plural, and the most they will say is that, yes, one of them have come up recently. I think the fear here is that they don't want to put all their eggs in a basket and have someone out there who knows something or thinks they might have information think, oh, they got their guy. Well, why don't they just do a DNA analysis with the most advanced technique? But there's even more to what this guy is saying. Take a listen to our cut 11, News 5 Cleveland.

Police say during an interview with the man in the fall of 2019, the man, quote, indicated he may have met Mihaljevic's mother in a bar and that, quote, maybe he didn't know who he was talking to. Police say they asked the man whether he ever called Amy prior to her abduction. The detective wrote the man said, I could have, and that it could have been a wrong number. According to court documents, when asked again if there was a possibility that he called her, the man said yes. Dale Carson, why is a man in his 30s calling a 10-year-old little girl on the phone? Well, there can't be no good reason for that, obviously.

But it does demonstrate the link that the child perceived was with her family because he could say to her, my niece is in school with you and I would like to match up with you. Those are all mechanism keys to the lock of self-protection that opens up and allows him to continue to manipulate the child. As of right now, after all the years have passed, Amy's father still holding out hope that her killer will be apprehended. We wait as justice unfolds. The tip line 440-871-1234. Repeat 440-871-1234. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.