Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - UNSOLVED: Ohio Architect, Fiancee Murdered in Mexico

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

It took a DNA match to  confirmed that remains found in a grave in Mexico was that of Cincinnati architect Jose Gutiérrez. He was one of four people found buried next to a bullet-riddled vehicle in Zacatecas, Mexico.  Gutierrez, 36, was traveling to visit his fiancée. The fiancée, Daniela Pichardo, and two of her relatives were also killed. Joining Nancy Grace today: Gary Davidson- Partner, Diaz Reus international Law Firm & Alliance, diazreus.com, Twitter: @DRT_Alliance, Instagram: diazreustarg Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA), DrBethanyMarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills), @DrBethanyLive   Irv Brandt- Former US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Author: "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World" available on Amazon- irvbrandt.com Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Dr. Tim Gallagher- Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Kayla Brantley-  Reporter, DailyMail.com, Twitter: @_KaylaBrantley, Instagram: @KaylaBrantley   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young, handsome Ohio architect falls in love. He proposes. The wedding date is set. He heads off to visit with his fiancee, and he's never seen again. Neither is she, for that matter. I'm Nancy Grace this is Crime Stories thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111 first of all take a listen to our friend Simone Jameson dozens of people gathered here at St. Julie Bilyard Church in Hamilton earlier this evening a showing of just how loved 36 year old Jose Gutierrez is in this community. The service brought together his family, friends, co-workers, and more in prayer that he'll be reunited with them very soon.

It's very stressful because we are here, United States citizens, on this side and our brother is in a totally different country where we have nowhere abouts of where he's at. Luis Gutierrez is talking about his brother, 36-year-old Jose Gutierrez, the Cincinnati architect, last seen at CVG Airport December 22nd en route to Mexico to plan his wedding with his fiancee. Slated for this fall, we're told while he did make it to Mexico, there's been no communication since.

Okay, do you know how much time and energy I put into writing Don't Be a Victim? And as I started the chapter on traveling and traveling abroad, I could not ignore Mexico because all of my research started pointing toward Mexico as one of the most dangerous places to visit. This guy, Jose Gutierrez, goes to be with his fiancee, and she is just gorgeous. All their plans for their wedding nailed down, and then the two of them just disappear? Take a listen now to our friends at Fox 19. We're live here at CVG because this is the last place that 36-year-old Jose Gutierrez was seen on U.S. soil.

So his family tells me they believe that shortly after he got to Mexico, he was abducted. I mean, he does go often. He goes about three times a year. Brandi Gutierrez says she thought nothing of her brother's holiday trip to Zacatecas, a state in Mexico near Texas. She said her brother would often visit his future wife. Their wedding date is set for next year. What's concerning is they haven't heard from him in days.

He loves socials. He loves to dance. He's a good guy. Are you really worried? Yes, I am. We all are. And more from WCPO. Three emojis like with a heart going like this. That's the last message Brandi Gutierrez got from her brother. She and her family haven't heard from him since. He is a great guy. Everyone loves him. He's well known. We're a family and we see ourselves as one. And him missing has torn us apart. 36-year-old Jose Gutierrez was in Mexico visiting his fiance, a trip he took frequently. They're planning a wedding next year in September.

I almost feel nauseous thinking about this. I'm just thinking about his parents too. They worked so hard to get him through college, get him through architect school. Then he gets this fantastic job with an architect firm, and he finally, at age 36, finds the love of his life. After a real uphill battle, he finds her, proposes, the wedding is set, everything's done, except no bride, no groom. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want to go to Senior Inspector with the U.S. Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, formerly with the DOJ, Office of International Affairs. He worked with the U.S. Embassy in Kingston.

Country attache, author of Solo Shot and Flying Solo, both of them on Amazon, Irv Brandt. You know, Irv, back me up on this. You know, do me a solid. When I started trying to write about how to stay safe when you travel, be it within our own wonderful country or going abroad, like giant red neon signs were pointing toward Mexico as dangerous. Nancy, that's exactly right. And you've done the research. I've spent the vast majority of my career traveling to other countries, conducted investigations in 60 countries on six

continents. And without a doubt, Mexico is the most dangerous, well, certain parts of Mexico is the most dangerous place in the world. When we were down there, I oversaw operations in our foreign field offices in Mexico City and Monterey, Guadalajara. We didn't go anywhere unless it was in armored SUVs with automatic weapons, with escorts from the Mexican National Police and contractors for additional security. That's how dangerous it is. You know what I'm thinking about, Dr. Bethany Marshall? Kayla Brantley joining DLML.com, who's all over this case. Kayla, hold on one moment. Dr. Bethany, I'm just thinking about how the phrase love is blind.

Guys with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com. All he could see was this beautiful bride. I mean, have you seen her? She looks like a beauty queen. She's gorgeous.

And, you know, here he is. His family have come from nothing and worked fingers to the bone to get him through college, to get him through architect school. Then he lands this incredible position with this firm, a very sought-after firm, I might add, in Ohio. And all he wants to do is get married. I mean, I'm looking at him with this big, huge smile and her. She's got the dark brown hair pulled back, this beautiful brown eyes, perfect porcelain looking skin.

And they make this gorgeous couple. And I'm sure as he was going to Mexico, she lived there to see her and finalize all their wedding plans and look forward to the future. All he had on his mind was love. You know, like the horses in a race, they put on blinders so they can't see anything

except what's right in front of them. And all he was thinking about was being in love. Nancy, not only are those photos, I stayed up late last night looking at these photos too. There's one with him and his family. There must be 12 people. They all have their arms around each other. And in the photos of him and her, have you noticed they're like in dance halls?

It looks like they're having this really great social life that's important to them. So, Nancy, the question of what do you think about when you're in love is a really important one. We know a lot from the field of neurobiology, and Mona Fishbane is the leading researcher in this area. She says that when you first fall in love, you're thinking about two things. One is that brain scans show up that the brain lights up just as if you were on cocaine. That's how excited people are for the first six to eight months. Also that you're thinking about the, you're seeing the other person in terms of your own unmet needs for a life together, for excitement, for going on an adventure, whatever the unmet need is,

that's the only thing you see. And it forms a sort of tunneling so that that person is in this tunnel with you and the rest of the world is outside the tunnel. So you're not thinking about where you're traveling in terms of danger or potential harm. You're thinking about walking on the beach, holding hands, you know, the proverbial, you know, being proposed to at sunset. That's what you're thinking about. And Nancy, that's what we all long for. Go on social media or look at any magazine.

That's what you're going to see is romantic images of couples. And research shows, not to be boring here, but research shows that mental health is actually higher when you're part of a couple. And so this is a really wonderful incubating time for the rest of your life. You're not thinking about something going wrong. I'm just thinking about what you just said. And you said it last, did you say six to eight months? Is that what you said? Six to eight months. Because I'm telling you right now, when David Lynch, as I call him, big horse head. When he walks in the room, when he comes home, my heart still jumps. I'm happy.

And another thing, Dr. Bethany, when I'm sitting there in the minivan waiting for the twins to come out of school, because you know I'm picking them up and getting them home safely. When I see them walk out, my heart jumps. And all I can think about is seeing them. I know. And it's like everything else fades away. And I'm wondering what he was thinking about that night. Guys, take a listen to our friends at Fox 19.

This is Ken Baker. Gutierrez says she last heard her brother and his fiance went out to eat and that the couple was never heard from again. Right now, a Mexican-backed missing persons firm is looking for the couple. The U.S. does have a travel advisory for Zacateas, saying travelers should be weary of kidnapping and other crime. Gutierrez says news reports in the area say something went wrong that night her brother went missing. The actual bar notices, like, screams, notices, like, that there's some type of way, like, there's something that is not right.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace joining you right now is kayla brantley investigative reporter with dailymail.com kayla thank you for being with us let's just take it from the top so he leaves uh is it cvg airport in ohio that'd be cincinnati airport so he leaves his family last sees him on december 22nd and he's going to spend christmas you know the biggest holiday of the year with his fiancee with her family and they go to a bar obviously something goes wrong. And they are in a state of Mexico that is known for crime. They're not in Cancun with the Spring Breakers. They're not in Cozumel with all the cruise ships. They're in Zacatecas, which is on the U.S. Department of State's warning of do not travel. Okay, hold on, hold on, wait, keep talking. I'm looking up right here in the book. Don't be a victim.

It goes on and on. If you do travel to Mexico, and of course I say don't do it, but you have to look for crime and safety reports in Mexico. Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter. It goes on and on. They even give roads to avoid. Now listen, there's no way in HELL I'm taking the twins anywhere where I have to worry about what road I'm traveling on. But this guy is going to see his fiance. He has to go there. That's where she lives. So, you know, I guess in his mind, travel advisories be damned.

Guys, take a listen to our cut three, our friend Valerie Lyons. Zacatecas is one of a handful of Mexican states with a do not travel advisory for American tourists due to high rates of murder and kidnapping. In fact, it's currently a battleground to two of Mexico's largest cartels. And that's why people took to the streets in Mexico Thursday, demanding Gutierrez and the others safe return and an overall end to violence in the region. Gutierrez's family says they aren't giving up hope, but the 2,000 mile distance has made the days more difficult. It's just so frustrating because we want to be there, but it's not safe. Still, they hold on and pray they'll bring in the new year with Jose

standing by them. It will make us complete again. Straight back to Irv Brandt, who knows what he's talking about. U.S. Marshal Service, attache for our country, DOJ, Office of International Affairs. It goes on and on and on. What does that mean for there to be a do not travel advisory from the Department of Justice? Nancy, there's a reason why State Department puts these things out. Like I said before, I travel extensively and I still travel extensively. And the first thing that I do is check for state department warnings. When countries like Mexico, especially as the other panelists mentioned, when you're not going to the tourist destinations, when you're not going to an all-inclusive resort that has its own security,

when you're going to these cities, you have to be extremely careful. And unfortunately, and what's tragic is Mexican-Americans, American citizens, you know, from this country, but have ties to Mexico, native speakers and family on that side of the border. They're the biggest targets. And but they feel comfortable traveling in those places because they have family there. It feels like home and they think they're safe when it's just the opposite. And it's tragic what happens down there. You know, I heard another thing.

Gary Davidson, guys, is with me. High-profile lawyer joining us, partnered with Diaz Ruiz International Law Firm and Alliance. Gary Davidson, did you hear the reporter say a Mexican missing person firm? So many people are victims of violence and go missing in Mexico. That is a boutique niche business in Mexico are firms to find missing Americans. But you know what? Mexican police?

Ha, ha. Have they written in my notes? Mexican police are on it. Right. They're the ones that let El Chapo go. How am I going to have any faith in them? What's a Mexican missing person firm, Gary? Well, actually, unfortunately, the reality on the ground is that and having handled

a number of cases in Mexico, you don't have in Mexico, in the private sector, the level of investigative talent or the profession of being an investigator is not, it's just not there. Very, very few attorneys down there who need help in investigations are able to turn to locals for that assistance. They have to bring somebody in from outside the country often. So that's, but it is, you know, the flip side is in places like Zacatecas, you're not going to have the level of police sophistication that you would have in a place such as Mexico City to deal with these sorts of issues. You know, Mexico City, Zacatecas, you know, just every case I've ever dealt with that has ties to Mexico is a disaster. Always do not count on them. They're nothing like our police forces here.

Yeah, our police force has a lot of problems. I know that. But you go to Mexico and you can't wait to get back to your own U.S. police force. I'm telling you. And I've been there. I've dived all over Cozumel, Cancun, everywhere off every beach I could find. And I'm telling you, I would dive under the water and go back to the hotel because crime is horrible there. And U.S. citizens are sitting ducks, just like you heard stated by Gary Davidson. Guys, when you're trying to find somebody,

you don't just look forward. Where could they be? You look backward. Who are they? Who's the person you're looking to? When you don't know a horse, you look at his track record. Where's he likely to be?

Who's his fiance? What is she into? What do we know about her? Well, listen to Simone Jameson, Fox 19, and our friends at WCPO. Friday, dozens gathered for a candlelight service at St. Julie Billiards Church in Hamilton, praying for his safe return. He is very well missed, and as we can see, we are a numerous family, and without him, it's really hard. Jose, the oldest of seven children, his siblings describing him as a role model who overcame all odds to earn his master's degree and work full-time in his field.

He is a very hard, smart guy, and he has accomplished everything that he has proposed, and I know he will fight through this. The 36-year-old architect from Hamilton went missing in Mexico while visiting his fiancée. They, along with two of her relatives, were last seen at a bar in the north-central state of Zacatecas Christmas Day. None have been heard from since. After earning his master's at Miami University,

he joined Champlin Architecture three years ago, where several projects seem to have been put on pause. He's a great guy. I mean, every time I see him in the office, he's got a smile on his face and always willing to jump in and help people. Everybody was happy to have him on their teams. And, you know, obviously without him there, we're, we're going to, we're hoping it comes back soon because we'd have work to do and love working with them. That's who he is. You don't find any secret dope addiction,

you know, an alcoholic, a risk taker. This is a guy that puts his nose to the grindstone and works for his family, his future fiance. And you know what we found out about her? She's just as beautiful on the inside as the out. So Dr. Tim Gallagher, guys, is a very well-known medical examiner for the state of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed.com.

He teaches at University of Florida Medical School, teaches forensic medicine, and he is the founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Dr. Gallagher, the person that's being described to us is responsible, put himself through with the help of his family, undergrad, and a master's degree in architecture, is with a very prestigious firm. He works weeks straight, and then he visits fiancé in Mexico, comes back and works, visits fiance, no record, no felony, no misdemeanor, no ordinance violation. I can't even find a speeding ticket on this guy. Never has missed a mortgage payment, nothing. So here's my question to you. And yes, I know you're an MD, a medical doctor, but wouldn't you agree that a large percentage of the people that end up on your examination table at the morgue have engaged in risky behavior? Dope, alcohol, speeding, high crime area crime the works well absolutely nancy um you know a lot of these

people put themselves on purpose you know in these very risky situations you know and they're risky situations because you can become harmed you know in that area um some you know when you go there and nothing happens to you it emboldens you you know you feel that maybe you're a little more invincible than the next person and you feel relaxed and going back again but eventually you know the numbers will catch up with you if you put yourself in a risky situation something bad will happen to you over the course of time and that's exactly true what we find here at the morgue some of these people they just happen to be the good people but in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong

time you know and this example that we're showing today could be one of that could be they just happen to be with the wrong people you know you brought up something really important right there, Dr. Gallagher, the wrong people. It wasn't just these two. When you said people, they're not wrong. Let me clear that up. But the bride and groom were also with two other women. Kayla Brantley, joining me, DailyMail.com, were the two other women that were with them her sisters or her friends? Who were they? It was her sister, who is 26 years old, and then a cousin, which was also a female cousin. We don't know much about their backgrounds, but we assume that they are from there, so they could possibly know people from the community.

But where crime is this rampant and there's violence and gang violence, it's almost impossible to not, you know, know somebody or be connected in some way, or it could be completely random. It really, there are so many questions here. I'm looking at one of the girls, Irma Vargas. Gorgeous. Beautiful. gorgeous beautiful yeah and then a really young girl viviana marquez she looks like she's you know maybe 20 with her pet dog taking her husky dog on a walk and as much as we've tried to find anything bad about them we haven't found a thing. And you know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm not looking to find out bad things about them.

I'm looking to find out if they had a record. Did they do drugs? Did they sell drugs? Did they do nothing? They're scrubbed in sunshine, Dr. Bethany. You got this guy, he's worked his whole life to get the top of his game in architecture. He's finally marrying and start a family and they're out with her two girl cousins.

They did everything right, Bethany? You know, not only did they do everything right, but on both sides of the border, to the north and to the south, they were ensconced in family. You know, they had deep family ties. They have family who missed them. They have family who is looking for them. You know, it's easy to talk about the dangerous sides of being south of the border because that's our job.

It's our job to warn people. It's our job to make sense of all of this. But there are also kids who go to college. These kids were in their 20s. Kids who start careers. Kids who want jobs. You know, young people who are at the beginning of their lives and have hopes and dreams. And this is, you know, I think I compare some parts of Mexico to Europe that, you know,

you see a lot of very European attitudes because I do happen to spend a lot of time there, especially in Mexico City. So there's a very large European community. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You spend a lot of time in Mexico City, right? In Mexico City, yes.

Yeah. Well, that's because your parents and you were missionaries. Weren't you missionaries there? That's right, Nancy. I hate to say this. Okay. Well, I don't think anybody's going to break into the church and rob you. Well, I don't know.

Maybe they will. But I think. Okay. That's a good point. Right there. Where you go as a missionary is a lot different than going out to a bar or a restaurant. Dr. Bethany. Absolutely true.

I never want to be on the witness stand with you. Yes. We are not going to bars. They're just going out to dinner. Guys, take a listen to our cut eight from Fox 19. Now multiple law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, are working to locate both Jose and his fiance. A search that Jose's sibling says has taken its toll on the tight-knit family. My mind's just racing.

I'm finding myself now crying every now and again and trying to stay strong for my brothers and my family and just praying for him to be home as well as this the person he's been missing with as well so it makes it very hard to understand why these things aren't happening to our family an ordeal they're hopeful the power of prayer word of mouth and social media will unify more people and lead to the outcome they've been pleading for we're're not stopping until we get you home, brother. Herb Brandt, formerly U.S. Marshal Service, DOJ, country attache, multiple law enforcements, my rear end. Are they including the Mexican police in that? Yes, they are, Nancy.

And the thing to understand is that... I mean, am I wrong? If I'm wrong, tell me. But, I mean, to me, they're not worth the salt that goes in their bread. They never help us. No. And you're right. But when they talk about multiple, every U.S. federal agency has representatives in Mexico.

And there's a reason for that. The FBI, the U.S. Marshal Service, the DEA. And there's a reason for that. The FBI, the U.S. Marshal Service, the DEA. And there is a reason for that. And if requested from either the federalities or the local jurisdictions, the U.S. will always help in the investigation. But they have to be asked. It has to be requested from them. The agents down in Mexico have diplomatic immunity. They have diplomatic status. They're allowed to carry firearms, but they're not law enforcement officers in that country.

That's a sovereignty issue. They're not allowed to conduct investigations on their own. They have to be accompanied by the Mexican authorities. And more importantly, their assistance has to be requested from those agencies before they can start an investigation. Gary Davidson with me, partner Diaz Ruiz, International Law Firm and Alliance has done a lot of business in Mexico with crimes and other matters. You know, Gary, maybe I've got it bass-ackwards, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and I mean that, because by the time I get a case out of Mexico, it's about a dead body or a missing U.S. citizen. Those are the cases I see. Or drug lords that would come straight out of Mexico and land on my back door in inner city Atlanta.

So I could prosecute them and try to keep a tally of all the dead bodies they leave behind them. That's the way I look at it. But am I wrong? No. they leave behind them. That's the way I look at it. But am I wrong? No, you're not wrong in the sense that, and a lot of people who, you know, are accustomed to traveling to Mexico, to places like Mexico City, to the tourist destinations in Cancun and so forth, they lose sight of the fact that, you know, every country has certain values. And people what people don't understand, if you haven't spent time in the legal system in any capacity dealing with Mexico, is the fundamental fact that human life is just not valued in Mexico,

the way it is valued in the United States and Canada. And it's a sad day to have to say that. But you look at a place, you know, like Zacatecas, about 12% of that entire population in that geographic area are college educated. The majority, the vast majority, have only completed seventh grade. When you're dealing with this level of poverty and lack of education and lack of mobility, you're dealing with a very, very depraved sort of a thing. And desperate. Yes, very, very depraved sort of a thing. And desperate. Yes, very, very desperate situations.

And so, yes, Mexico is known for violence. Mexico is known for, you know, in its legal system, for instance, on the civil side. The value of human life in a wrongful death case in Mexico is approximately $45,000. That says everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, then there is a twist in the search for architect Jose Gutierrez, his bride-to-be, Daniela, and her family, her cousins, Viviana and Irma. Take a listen to our friends at WLWT.

Yesterday, we reported that authorities discovered the vehicle Gutierrez and his fiancé's family were in. The SUV had bullet holes and flat tires. Now, the Attorney General for Zacatecas says members of Mexico's National Guard found a burial zone near the vehicle. The initial assessment is that four bodies had been buried, three women and one man. Genetic testing will be done to determine their identities. Now while we verify today's update from Zacatecas, Jose Gutierrez's sister, who also lives in Hamilton, says the FBI has not yet confirmed the news about the discovery of those bodies. Takayla Brant, joining us at DailyMail.com,

tell me about the SUV riddled with bullet holes with flat tires. Well, just like you said, they found the SUV finally, and bullet holes, flat tires, airbags deployed, and nearby a grave site, four bodies. And what was taking so long to identify at least Jose Gutierrez was that the bodies were reportedly charred. So past recognition, there needed to be DNA testing done and to finally find the identities of these bodies.

So this was a brutal, brutal slaying. Irv Brandt joining me. The SUV riddled with bullets, the tires flattened, bodies charred beyond recognition. What kind of a crime was that? What did they want? Kidnapping, Nancy. Typical M.O. for kidnapping. of a crime or was that what did they want kidnapping nancy a typical mo uh for for a kidnapping the you were saying you were talking about you were trying to find something out about

the families maybe about their past and looking for nefarious activities when just the opposite is what makes them the perfect target, is they have no pass. They have no criminal ties. They're not connected to the cartels. They have good families on both sides of the border in America and in Mexico, which makes them the perfect target for extortion from their Mexican families and their

American families something obviously went wrong if they were killed because that wouldn't be the objective there's no money in that but that is exactly why they were targeted is because they were good people not because they were targeted. It's because they were good people, not because they were bad people. Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida, when you have charred remains like this, and you can't make a visual identification of the body, how do you extract DNA from ashes, from charred remains? Do you go into the bone? Well, you have to remember that the charring is on the outside of the body. In many cases,

the inside of the body is very well preserved. I mean, the body is made up of 75 to 80% water, you know, so that's not going to burn. But it is very easy to even obtain blood or bone marrow, you know, from these so-called charred remains. And just because they look charred on the outside doesn't mean that there's any damage done entirely on the inside. DNA is very easy to obtain as well as dental records and sometimes even fingerprints or palm prints can be taken if the hands haven't been consumed by the fire it's just so hard for me to hear what you're saying dr gallagher i know it all to be true but but we got right beside me photos of them getting ready for their wedding. Guys, take a listen to our cut 13, our friend Larry Seward. Jose's sister says the Miami University grad-turned-architect flew to Mexico to spend the holidays with his bride-to-be and her family.

On Christmas Day, on the way to Pichardo's family home, the group stopped at a bar in Zacatecas. It is a city so plagued by kidnapping crime and warring drug cartels that the U.S. State Department urges Americans not to travel there. Gutierrez's group never made it out. Authorities searched for nearly a month before finding their bodies, and so far no one faces charges for the murders, which moved crowds to block the highway, demanding justice. Authorities say they're investigating and promised to send Gutierrez's body back to the U.S., where his family can say final goodbyes. Well, that's not really making me feel any better. Actual protests there in Mexico demanding justice and more in our Cut 12 WCPO.

In Corotlan, Mexico, loved ones cried over the caskets of Paula Vargas, Viviana San Daniela Pichardo. Their funeral Sunday followed this highway-blocking demonstration over a Christmas Day crime that also claimed the life of Hamilton architect Jose Gutierrez. Mexican authorities confirmed Gutierrez's DNA matches bones found in a hidden grave last week near this SUV with a flat tire and bullet holes. Police found remains of his fiancee, her sister and cousin there too. All four disappeared Christmas day. A funeral instead of a wedding. People protesting in the streets for justice. And you just heard high profile lawyer Gary Davidson and Irv Brandt describing an area so poor, so uneducated, people desperate, willing to commit kidnappings and murders. And now these funerals, other people thronging the streets trying to get justice for the three local ladies, the bride and her two cousins that were murdered.

So, Keila Brantley, has anybody been arrested or prosecuted? No arrests, no prosecutions. We're not even sure if there's any suspects at this point. We just have four charred bodies that are going to be, you know, in caskets at a funeral without a wedding. And you really have to just think of the family here. Best case scenario, once they knew they were in danger, they were thinking ransom. They were prepared to pay any ransom to try to get them back. But it was worst case scenario at this point where now they have funerals. You know, Irv, I don't even know what to say. You were just hearing Kayla Brantley from DailyMail.com describing the families putting together money for a ransom and now the firm announcing a

Miami University scholarship in Jose's name. That's what we've got left. A scholarship in his name because he's dead. It's tragic, Nancy. It's very big news here in the United States. It's tragic, but unfortunately, it's not news in Mexico. Thousands of crimes, just like this one. Thousands, multiple, every day happens, just like this. I read intelligent reports when I was at Marshal Service Headquarters coming from the Mexican National Police and I would look at photos and they would find semi trucks, the trailers full of bodies with the heads removed and the hands removed. So you couldn't identify the victims. This is, it's beyond belief what goes down there. And I have zero confidence that anyone will ever be identified

and charged with this crime. I agree or disagree, Gary Davidson. Highly unlikely the perpetrators will be found and that justice will be done here. You know, you just, your heart goes out to the families because it's just, it's one thing to lose a family member, you know, from natural causes. It is quite another to never really have any closure, never really know what happened and who are the people who perpetrated it and why they did it. And so that's what we're left with. The tip line, 1-800-225-5324. I cannot accept that we will not get justice. 800-225-5324. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.