Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Updates on discovered remains: Natalee Holloway & Chase Massner

Episode Date: August 28, 2017

Natalee Holloway's father is increasingly hopeful bones found buried in Aruba will give him answers about what happened to his daughter. Investigative reporter Art Harris and medical examiner Dr. William Morrone join Nancy Grace to discuss the latest revelations in the Oxygen docu-series on the case. A medical examiner has confirmed that remains found buried in a Georgia backyard are those of missing Iraq War vet Chase Masser. Nancy gathers Team Chase, CrimeOnline reporter Leigh Egan and Atlanta 11Alive reporter Jessica Noll to talk about the investigation. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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of independent lawyers without being billed by the hour. Since LegalZoom is not a law firm, hurry to LegalZoom.com now for your free estate planning kit. No obligation, just great resources to help you protect what you care about, your family. For special savings, be sure to enter code NANCY, N-A-N-C-Y at checkout. LegalZoom.com. LegalZoom.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. 2005, on the small island of Aruba, Natalie Holloway was with friends at a local bar where she was last seen getting a ride with Euron Vandersloat. Natalie's disappearance remains a mystery. Her dad says that he and a private eye found human remains in Aruba.

We took those remains and had those remains tested, and they just returned last week that they're human remains. Will there be able to be some kind of test, Dave, that will answer once and for all whether this is Natalie's? We're in the process of doing a DNA test. Dave Holloway says that a friend of a man who was once suspected in her disappearance tipped him off. I know that there's a possibility this could be someone else and I'm just trying to wait and see. A major breakthrough in the search for Alabama beauty

honors student Natalie Holloway. Unless you've been living under a rock or in a cave, you know that Natalie Holloway from Mountain Brook, Alabama, all set to head to college, even with a college scholarship, goes on her high school senior trip to Aruba. The trip is heavily chaperoned. Her parents take her to the departure point. They love on her. They wave goodbye.

And they never see Natalie Holloway again. Let me tell you something. When my daughter went on her first Girl Scout trip, you know who was telling them three cars behind. When they went on their first field trip in a school bus to a museum, yeah, that was me in a pair of sunglasses, like 10 cars back, telling, oh, yes, I did. You know why?

Because of Natalie Holloway. Because they took every precaution they could. This trip, again, was heavily chaperoned. Everything was safe and secure. Enter Jorn Vandersloot, the son of an Aruban judge, Paulus Vandersloot, who many people believe

covered up the kidnap, the disappearance, and the death of Natalie Holloway. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories Breaking News in the search for the Alabama teen Natalie Holloway. Straight out to Art Harris, investigative reporter who covered her disappearance from Aruba along with me when Natalie first went missing. Art, what is the latest?

Nancy, her father has sent away remains they believe were possibly Natalie's to have a DNA analysis. And it has come back of a general conclusion that the remains were from Eastern European descent, suggesting, and that is Natalie's heritage, that this could be, Natalie, they are waiting for more testing to rule more in or out. But this is a general kind of test that people do when they send in and subscribe to ANSYS. This is major art. This is major. This is major. It is, Nancy. Because if this is correct, I am so mad with those Aruban prosecutors who are poo-pooing this saying,

ah, it's nothing. What do they know? They've been lying to us from the get-go, them right along with the Aruban police. I swear I never put a toe on Aruban soil after the way they did Natalie Holloway and her family down there. Long story short, Dave Holloway has spent the last 12 years of his life trying to find his daughter or trying to find out what happened to his daughter,

including traveling as far away as Nicaragua and other far away destinations to find Natalie Holloway. I mean, can you imagine? You wake up every morning, you get a cup of coffee and you think, is Natalie a sex slave somewhere? Is she being beaten right now? Is she being abused? Is she in some foreign country and she can't get to the phone? Where's my daughter? I mean, I get so keyed up about this sometimes.

I just drive by the children's school just to make sure it looks safe from the outside. It's just so upsetting. I don't know how they managed to put one foot in front of the other. Joining me in addition to Art Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter, renowned medical examiner from Madison Heights, Wisconsin, Dr. William Maroney, author of a brand new book available on Amazon. I'm so proud of this book, American Narcan, really fighting the war against opioids taking over our country. Dr. Maroney, I want to talk to you about what's happening right now. And first of all, let me start it off, Dr. Maroney, with thanking you and Art for being with me, but I am so fed up with people trashing Dave Holloway and acting like this is some kind of a stunt. That man has had a very successful career. He does not

need any kind of publicity at all. He doesn't need that. Nobody in his family. You drive down the streets of Mountain Brook and you'll know what I mean. Okay? It ain't shabby. So he's been on this quest for all these years. Twelve years, Dr. Maroney. And I really resent people attacking him, saying that this is a perfectly timed stunt. You know, he doesn't need that. That said, Dr. Maroney, how important is it that these remains have been identified as a woman of Eastern European descent, just like Natalie?

Well, they fit her profile and her background, but they also come linked to a confession of sorts that come because of this investigation. We've been waiting 12 years. We asked ourselves 12 years ago, did Joran van der Sloot bury the body and are we just not finding it? Or did he bring it to see? We knew he was involved and we were waiting to see it took 12 years for them to find the possible

secondary crime site and the fact they say there remains means this body may have been dismembered and they're going to be sending pieces of bone away and the technology that we have today the mitochondrial dna links the slow it down hold on hold on hold on let's stop the train for a moment yeah go ahead i think what you just said in regular people talk is that they now will make a comparison of these bones dna through mitochondrial DNA. In regular talk, that means DNA derived from the mother. First of all, how do you extract DNA from bones? Why does it take so long? Well, they're going to be able to have some kind of genetic information from bone marrow, from some other damaged tissue, but linking these samples directly... But how do you get it? You're already ahead of me. You're to linking. How do you get the DNA

out of a bone that you dig up out of the earth, Dr. Maroney? You grind it up and you take sample after sample to see, it's like a puzzle. There are some pieces that this piece is missing, but piece B and C are present. So you're missing A. And you grind it up and you look at other pieces, and piece A is present, but piece C is missing. And you end up putting a piece of DNA back together that has been damaged that you can't see in entirety. But when you're done, it'll match the mother. If this is the way.

Okay, I think what you're saying is you grind up the bone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, see, I thought what you did was go into the bone, the center of the bone to get bone marrow. Is that not where the marrow is in a bone, in the center of the bone? It is, but it's going to be dried now well isn't that just like dried blood you can get dna from dried blood can't you get it from dried bone marrow except in the blood the only um place for the dna are cells that have a nucleus

and the actual red blood cells the large component of blood are a nucleated that means they don't have a nucleus and the nucleus of the cell is where you get the genetic information and there's more genetic information in the cells in the marrow because they're pluripotent what is that pluripotent you're losing me it means means the cells in the marrow can reproduce in many different directions. When people talk about, well, you know, there's immunological cells, so there's B cells and C cells, or there could be white cells for infection, or there could be red cells, or those cells could take off. And just like stem cell therapy, they can develop into other cells, many different other cells. So the pluripotency, growth and direction, and that is driven by the nucleus. Okay, never mind.

Okay, I wish I had not even asked. I appreciate the effort. But I majored in Shakespearean literature, not microbiology or whatever the hell you majored in. Just take it as a compliment. Okay. Long story short, they grind the bone up. All right. Mitochondrial DNA, they get from the mom. Why? And keep it simple, Dr. Maroney. Okay. I know you're the MD. I understand that and I respect it, but mitochondrial DNA is a secondary type of DNA. You don't have the nucleus, I think, that you're referring to.

And you take mitochondrial DNA as a second choice. So what do they get? DNA from Natalie's mom, Beth, and then compare it to the ground-up bone DNA? Yes, but whether you're male or female, all of your mitochondrial DNA comes from your mother. So men and women, brothers and sisters, will all have inherited their mitochondrial DNA. Okay, stop right there before you go off on a biological tangent that I don't know what you're saying. Tell me this, Dr. Moroney, and again, dummy down for me, okay? They know that these bones are from a woman of Eastern European descent, which Natalie is.

How do they know these bones are a woman, first of all? Because when they do the bones, every cell has the potential to have some kind of X or Y. And in those genetic markers, XX is female and XY is male. Okay, I got it. X versus XY. I understand that much. So you can tell that much from the ground up DNA or from just looking at the bone? They have to look at the DNA for that, for the gene. Okay. Now, let me understand. I understand. I believe that some forensic anthropologists can look at a bone and tell me if it's a woman, if they have the pelvis, but I don't know that they've got the pelvis here. So how, okay, you're telling me you can tell it's a woman from the ground up DNA. How about that she is of Eastern European descent?

And what does that mean, Eastern European descent? What that means is that you're going to have certain genetic qualities that might say fair skin, auburn hair, so that you know that Northern and Eastern European traits, whereas if they're a Pacific Islander, it'll be black hair and brown eyes. Got it. Got it. Okay. Now, also with me is Art Harris, Emmy Award-winning reporter. Art, let's take a call with Dr. Maroney. Out to the lines. I think I have Joe from Florida. Hi, Joe. What's your question? Well, I have in connection with this, I wonder exactly where the bones were found, number one. And the comments I have are, I think it's absolutely despicable of Vandersloot's father, the judge, to have probably covered up his son's murder. I mean, that is incredible. And I would have guessed that because no one has found anything

until this moment that she was washed away in the ocean. What do we know? Let's answer his question. Art, where were the bones found? They were found, Nancy, of course, on the island, Art, where were the bones found? confessed to him in confidence once upon a time that after he fed her this GHB, date rape drug, in a drink, and she foamed at the mouth, passed out. No one really believes or knows what to believe from him, but this guy said that the father did in fact help cover up for him and that these remains were dumped here and that this was only known to him because of his close relationship with URAN.

And now they have led Dave and his private investigator, T.J. Ward, to this site. Unclear how they got this material off the island and to whatever lab is doing it. But, you know, in good faith, we have hope now that this might be one step closer to closure to finding out that this could possibly be Natalie because of the connection between the source of the information and the fact that these are, this is DNA from an Eastern European, a woman of Eastern European descent, as you said, matched Natalie, her mother presumably too. And now they've got to wait for more detailed testing that the doctor would be more familiar with in terms of what that could be to get closer to a confirmation, Nancy. Back to Dr.iam maroney dr maroney you were saying that what adds so much credibility to this possibly being natalie holloway is that it was in connection with a so-called confession what do you

mean by that well if you find bones at all you really don't have any uh probable cause to test them but if you have somebody say I helped somebody dispose of a body and we put it over there and you go there and there's bones, even if it's not a whole skeleton, if it's remains, which is partial skeleton or pieces of bones, then you'd say, well, this is probably not an explorer. And the age determination, which will come basically on size and thickness measurements, will be putting that Eastern European female somewhere between the age of puberty and young adult female status. That'll be a second clue. When you look at the genetic traces, the ethnic heritage, the sex, and then the age, you start putting this together like a puzzle. And you'd say, well, this isn't a postmenopausal woman from the 17th century.

It's going to come down to the age of the bones and the mitochondrial DNA. Is Natalie Holloway's father one step closer to finding the fate of his daughter? New but unconfirmed reports now suggesting Dave Holloway has made that step a step closer to the discovery of his missing daughter. Preliminary DNA tests reportedly showing that newly discovered human bones are from a young woman of Eastern European descent, just like Natalie. I want to thank all of you for calling in, and especially for our guest today, Dr. William Maroney, medical examiner, joining me from Madison Heights, Wisconsin, and Emmy Award-winning reporter Art Harris. Joining us, caller, Joe from Florida.

Joe, your theory that she was washed to sea reminds me of all of the false leads and the, I don't really know what to call them, the red herrings that have been thrown at the Holloway family since Natalie first went missing. We had that she was taken out on a party boat and thrown overboard. We had that she was sold into sex slavery and was in another country. Oh, my goodness, that she was in a tar pit. I mean, there have been so many false leads in this case, and I hate that the family has gone through this.

But you brought up, Joe, that there was the one theory that she had been thrown in the water and that she was lost at sea. I believe that was the theory you brought up, Joe, in Florida. Well, that was one possibility that seemed, because no one found anything until now, that was one possibility of her completely disappearing. And you know, Joe, in Florida, Aruba is not big. I mean, you can be on one side of Aruba and basically see the other side in the distance. I mean, it's not big. And you're right, When no bones were ever discovered and no remains, that led everyone to think that she was in the water. In fact, Art Harris, investigative reporter, do you remember when there was a couple that were snorkeling or scuba diving

and they actually saw what appeared to be a human skull? Do you remember that? Yeah, Nancy. In fact, the water theory, if you remember where it came from, it was a friend of Joran's who ran one of those boats. And so you've got to think, was this a convenient diversion to steer them away from what really happened? Because who's going to find the body that long after in the water with the current shifting? And the Navy was out there with the water with the current shifting and the navy was out

there with the coast guard and a lot of a lot of searching was going on nancy and nothing turned up well if you recall let's follow that through there was actually a party boat in aruba and people would rent the party boat and go out on the water and party all night long. In fact, this party boat owner, I recall it very well, Steve Gregory Cruz. I think they actually, Steve Gregory Cruz, as I recall. Cruz, right. Was actually arrested a day after he was contacted by police, and he went voluntarily to the station to give a statement. According to his boss, Cruz was a disc jockey, as I recall,

and he was on the party boat Tattoo. I remember it like it was yesterday. And he knew one of the Serenese Kelpo brothers. Art, take me back to our investigation. You were there on the island when Natalie went. You went to the island when Natalie went, you went to the island when Natalie went missing, and we covered it hard, hard. And I remember this party boat. Nancy, yeah, Nancy left. Yeah. And you remember, remember it started at what Carlos and Charlie's,

where everybody flocked for a little party and drinking. And, of course, nobody knew that the M.O. at the bar was for your end to single women out and put a date rape drug in their drink. And after that, they were putty in his hands. And so the last scene, Natalie was in a car with him and the Calpo brothers leaving Carlos and Charlie's. And all the different theories spun out from there. There have been so many different stories. This one has some credibility, at least because it supposedly came from a former roommate of your aunt who heard this, quote, confession and confidence at one point. And a lot of the pieces seem to fit with other things

we've independently confirmed along the way, Nancy. When Art Harris says date rape drug, he's referring to gamma hydroxybutyrate. Let me ask you about that, Dr. Maroney. I also believe that was slipped into Natalie's drink at the bar where she and all of her friends were Carlos and Charlie's. What is GHB, Dr. Moroney, and how does it affect you? GHB falls into a category that we call two words, sedative hypnotic. So it makes you relax and it makes you sleep. And sedative hypnotics tend to lead to some kind of amnesia. So that even if you're not asleep, you're disinhibited and you don't remember what you did. So that's why it's used because it goes to the brain and it knocks out some of your inhibitions. And the problem with those kind of drugs and the reason why she would have passed out foamed at

the mouth and died is those drugs just like opiates just like our opioid crisis in america just like heroin or something like that shut down the respiratory system and when you don't breathe with the proper pressures you begin to foam because there's a pressure imbalance in your lungs. Many opioid overdose deaths or heroin overdose deaths, when you get on scene, they foamed through their mouth and nose. And if there's part of his roommate entourage, it's because it shut down her breathing and she would have died of hypoxia, not enough air, because the drug shut her brain off and she couldn't breathe. Makes you forget to breathe, right, Duncan? Yeah if you if you live through it you don't remember any of it very convenient Nancy yeah you're right and that's happened to so many women and it's tasteless

it's odorless you never know you're drinking it which is why I advise people never leave your drink unattended if you find out you do you have left it unattended, just get a new one. It's $3. Please, don't do it. It's just so not worth it. Another thing that really struck me, and I believe Natalie's mom, Beth, told me this to my face when we were talking off air, that in one of his many statements, Jorn Vandersloot described the underwear that Natalie was wearing that night. So knowing that, and she did own a pair of underwear like that. I think it had flowers on it, as I recall what Beth told me.

It was a long time ago Beth told me that. But if that's true, and it's hard to tell what's true from Jorn Vandersloot then it was a lot more than him giving her a drug or her drinking too much and choking there was a rape involved as well and armed with that evidence I can then extrapolate to what I think happened that night he also said Jorn Vandersloot the judge's's son, Paulus Vandersloot, who I thought should have been prosecuted as well, but that won't happen because he's dead. Jorn Vandersloot gave his father a heart attack. He dropped dead. My theory is that Jorn Vandersloot did give Natalie Holloway the date rape drug, as he had done in the past, to other women, or I don't think she would

have ever left with him. Her friends were there at the bar that night they had planned to leave together and then they see her driving off with him they're like what what and that then he attempted to rape her and killed her now she may have choked on the froth that Dr. Maroney was describing but that that's still a felony murder. If a death occurs in the commission of a felony, which intentional drugging is an aggravated assault, that is a felony murder for which the death penalty can be sought. Now, I know I went into warp speed on that, but let me break it down. You give a lady a date rape drug and she chokes on it and dies, you're in it for a death penalty case. That is murder one. Even if you did not intend her to die, if someone dies in the commission of any felony,

armed robbery, burglary, robbing a bank, drugging them, you're on the hook for felony murder. And that is the same as premeditated or malice murder as far as sentencing. That's what I think happened, Dr. Maroney. Do you have anything to back it up? Now, I agree with what you said. And as soon as she died, if he was involved in a criminal sexual assault, he could not have that body show up anywhere because his DNA would have been in it. And he had to make sure everything that was done was going to prevent finding that body so that his DNA could not be linked to her death. Take a listen to what Dave Holloway has to say. I have a question. What is your end result?

I mean, what do you want the most? Do you want someone in jail? Or do you just want to know what happened and have it documented? How do you see this? Well, I mean, my number one goal is to find Natalie and find out what happened. And then the second priority and goal is,

is Yorin Vandersloot was responsible for her death, and I want to see him, Dan. And then number three is John committed a crime where he disposed of her body. So those three things are my priorities. You know, Yorin, for what he did, he needs to serve his time for Natalie's murder. He's just an evil person. Evil.

I think Yorin Vandersloot knows what happened to Natalie. And I just want to know the truth. Right now, my hope is that they'll arrest John, hold him for disposal of human remains, and then formally bring charges against him. Back to Art Harris. You know, when you hear Dave Holloway talking, and same thing with Beth, the heartbreak in their voice is still evident. I mean, he says, quote,

I've always tried to be skeptical about it because I don't want to be disappointed. I mean, art. Just, oh. Nancy, they have been up against the wall so many times here. And think about the cooperation that you would get if this had happened in the in the states. You know, the full force of law enforcement, all the forensics, all the searching here. They have basically a a rogue police state that that marches to their own drummer, doesn't want anything to get out. I mean, a body, if they had found her body on the island, that would have made the tourism industry take another black eye. I mean, so they've got at all costs to protect their image as such as it is,

and to stonewall. And, you know, I have talked to some federal sources who work with Aruban authorities, and they are very insistent about keeping American authorities at arm's length. They don't want them on the island to be able to report on the horror story of an investigation that they did. And so, you know, it's really, it's tragic because normally, you know, if you die abroad, the FBI could have jurisdiction to come in and work the case. Another thing Dave Holloway said, and I'm referring, I'm referring back to what Dr. Maroney alluded to, that these

bones are not just a major breakthrough in the sense that they are of a young woman of Eastern European descent. And when we say that, we're talking about London, France, anywhere in Europe. But they are connected to this exact location. They're connected to Natalie. How is that? According to Dave Holloway, quote, we have a person who states he was directly involved with Jorn Vandersloot in disposing of Natalie's remains. I thought, you know, there may be something to this. And when you see all this oxygen special, all they went through getting wired up and getting a confidential informant to approach this guy. It was quite the ordeal grande to try to get this information.

You know, another thing, Dr. Maroney, people are saying, oh, wow, this is a coincidence that there is this oxygen show. You know what? Do you remember Dr. Maroney and Art Harris when Beth, the mom, was funded by somebody and the crew went with her to Peru where Jorn Vandersloot is now. And she confronted him trying to get answers about Natalie's whereabouts. If it hadn't been for that crew getting access to him in Peru, it wouldn't have happened. You know, finally, Dave Holloway has somebody helping him, and it's the Oxygen team, and they're filming it. You know what? I say power to them.

If they can help find Natalie or bring attention to Natalie, power to them if they can help find natalie or bring attention to natalie power to them they're doing more than the aruba police force ever did i can tell you that much what about it what about it dr maroney the invisible hand of journalism is now the fist that should have been criminal justice. Well put. And Art Harris, when you were down there, when you were down there, the police weren't doing a darn thing. Journalists, reporters like you, were the ones chasing all the leads to try to find her. Now the prosecutors now say it's not human remains. I would take that with a box of salt. Do you remember that, Art?

How many, Nancy, how many different police superintendents have there been down there? How many different stories have been told? How often have they denied any sort of lead that has come forward from the possibility of being buried at the Marriott Hotel site that they refused to excavate. I mean, there has been no cooperation. You've had a number of folks on your show over the years and have gotten double talk. How often? I mean, it must be tough. It's tough to listen to because you just have to assume when they're open their mouth,

they're not telling the truth. And I mean, it's all shrouded with what happened with the father, Paulus Vandersloot. I remember trying to interview him and he took off running. And as I always say, all there was was elbows and tail hole. That's all I saw of him. He took off and all I saw was his rear end running down the street. That was a judge for Pete's sake. The influence, Nancy, they had on the island.

If you ask what it was like when Yorin, for example, went to the casino, he was treated like royalty. And why is that? I mean, he had his pick of the litter. He would strut around and have pretty girls and hangers on and money, plenty of money to throw around. So this was someone who was connected. It's almost like a mob family of a Reuben royalty. It's a hard thing to even imagine, but that atmosphere contributed to this whole shroud of cover-up magic. Well, as I always say, and I know you two are going to fall off your

chair, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. Jorn Vandersloot went on to murder another young woman, Stephanie Tassiana Flores, from a very well-connected family. They met in a casino. It's all on video. They leave together, and the police theory is that in Jorn Vandersloot's room, she Googled him or looked him up and confronted him about Natalie and he murdered her. He didn't give a fig about it. After he murders her, the room is bloody and destroyed and disheveled. He goes out and gets coffee in a Danish, comes and sits down about three feet from her dead body and kicks back and has his coffee and his donut. And then he's caught on camera out in the hallway of the hotel, Dr. Maroney. He looks like a deer in the headlights, leaving, leaving her body there.

Is that pathology or is he Satan incarnate? You know, how can you say Satan and it's okay when I say somebody is Satan or evil, everybody goes berserk. But yes, I would think that he's evil incarnate and I really believe that in life, you pick a side, good or evil. And yeah, you mess up sometimes.

Make the wrong call. But there's a battle going on right now, Dr. Maroney, and I firmly agree with you. 12 years we waited for this. 12 years. Evil from an island at Evil, Nancy, where people sun and have fun, but have no idea what could be around the corner should they wander into another bar like she did. So beware. You know what I'm going to do after I talk to you, too? I'm getting myself in my minivan, and I'm going to go check on the children, okay?

We are waiting for the final outcome in the search for Natalie Holloway. My friends and colleagues, Dr. William Maroney, renowned medical examiner. You know, I'm just so glad I met you, Dr. Maroney. Joining me out of Madison Heights, Wisconsin today, my longtime friend and colleague, Art Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter. Thank you guys so much in our continued search for justice for Natalie. Another piece of the puzzle has been added to trying to solve the mystery of the disappearance of a beautiful young boy. That's the way his mom describes him. A beautiful young boy. I remember when I saw his photo albums of him as a child.

His mom showed them to me when I first met with Stephanie. That beautiful boy turned into a young man that everyone loved, that went off to fight for our country, an Iraqi war vet, comes home to his lovely wife, absolutely lovely, I wish you could meet her like I did, Amanda, and their little girls, only to meet with what he escaped in Iraq, and that is death. What happened to Chase Masner? We started with finding Chase Masner, and boy did we. After the efforts of Team Chase, Chase's family, and you guys joining us on Sirius XM 132 right now, Chase's remains were found.

Or we thought they were his remains found under a patio, under a slab of cement laid by an amateur. Right now we have breaking news in the search for Chase Masner. And joining me from NBC 11 Alive is Jessica Knoll. Jessica, thank you so much. What do we know? So right now what we know is that those remains that were found behind that house have been positively identified as Chase Masner. And how do we know that, Jessica Knoll?

I mean, I said at the get-go, who else do you think was behind his so-called friend's home, the last person to see him? What I don't understand is why the cops twiddle their thumbs all this time. But that's a whole nother can of worms. Let's talk about the identification of Chase Masner, which is one piece of the puzzle. What do we know, Jessica? The Pop County medical examiner is the one who positively ID'd his remains. But, you know, it had taken three weeks and we talked to his mom, Stephanie. She was expressing her frustration that it had taken so long and the backup seemed to be that the army had sent, you know, the wrong records to the medical examiners. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Oh, my stars. I mean,

it's like insult to injury because with me is Lee Egan from our team at CrimeOnline.com. Lee, it's just been one thing after the next. Remember the mom, Stephanie, told us at the get-go, she begged, begged the police to come search a dumpster that some people thought they saw the friend, Brad Clement, throw a black bag into. All right. The police wouldn't come, wouldn't come, wouldn't come. They finally came and searched the wrong dumpster. Then it's taken us this long to get a dog out there. And the reality is, Lee Egan, isn't it true? Volunteers got the dog out there. Volunteers led by Tracy Sargent, a canine expert, got the dog out there. Am I wrong? Nope. You are absolutely right. While the mom was begging them to search the dumpster, the ladies on Team Chase were begging them to search the yard for years.

Please search the yard. Please search the yard. I don't know what happened there. I don't know why they didn't. But then his case got sent over to the cold case unit. And finally, these guys listened to them and they got the yard searched in yeah sergeant brought out her dogs the dogs hit on the same spot it two they were separated one dog hit on the same spot the other dog was brought in well another thing lee egan and

i'm gonna throw back to jessica noel jessica from all the years i prosecuted, there's a big difference in bringing out a drug dog, a bomb dog to smell explosives, a dog that can smell drugs on currency, a scent dog that will track your scent like the dog that tracked Lacey Peterson's scent from her home on Covina all the way to the San Francisco Bay. He followed her scent that far to a cadaver dog. You got to bring the right dog. I mean, don't bring a knife to a gunfight for Pete's sake. It took us long enough to get a dog out there. I'm very close to cursing right now. But then we had to get a cadaver dog. And Jessica, what happened when a cadaver dog was brought to the scene? Jessica Knoll, 11, alive. Well, I mean, his remains were finally found, taken more than three years after several asks from everyone to check that, and

it took that long to get out there. And, you know, the Cobb County Cold Case Unit is a pretty amazing team of guys, guys and women, um they're actually a retired team of detectives who are pretty dogged about getting to the bottom of things and that's why they're perfect for that unit and they had uh the dog out there and when you say they had the dog out there lee egan crime online reporter who who got the dog out there actually yeah the the cold case unit along with uh people from team chase they both kind of got together team chase called them and got permission from the cold case to search the area tracy sergeant wasn't going to bring the dogs out until let me let me try to pin you down a little bit on this league and because you're you're waffling are you

familiar with that term uh let me put you on cross just a moment let me just give you a yes no question lee whose idea was it to get tracy sergeant's dog out there it was uh i believe tammy childs and a couple of other ladies from and they would be from team chase okay who asked for permission to take the dog out there lee egan tammy childs. Tammy Childs. Oh, again, again, Team Chase. And then the cold case unit, which I'm all for the cold case unit. I'm glad we've got them. They gave permission. But who, it's my understanding, let me just say it, Team Chase got the dog out there. If it hadn't been for them, Tracy would not bring the dog out without police clearance. And I get it. With me right now is a Team Chase member, Tammy Childs.

Tammy, break it down for me. Give it to me in a nutshell. No waffling. No offense, Lady. What happened? How'd you get the dog out there? Well, we had got some information, and I noticed it wasn't the same information that we had heard all this time for three years and I called Daniel Wilkerson and we started researching it Daniel Wilkerson and Mary

McMillan and we found this guy that said that he had seen Chase in his backyard. Actually, the old man had passed away. And Daniel talked to the wife and decided we needed to get the dogs. I called Tracy. He called cold case unit. And they agreed, and they took over the search. Well, God bless them. God bless the cold case unit.

One and all. And especially, God bless the cold case unit one and all, and especially God bless team chase. So now we know on top of all those snafus, let me put it mildly. The army sends the wrong records. Okay. You know what? I can't even think about that right now. I got to think about what we're doing now. Now we know it's Chase Masner's remains.

To you, Jessica Knoll, NBC 11 Alive, what happens now? So right now, the autopsy findings are pending with a scientific investigation. So it could take another three weeks before we find out how he was actually killed. If we can find out. Right. If we can determine that, because there's probably very little soft tissue. So it's going to be difficult, I would think. And here's the bottom line, Jessica Knoll. He ain't going anywhere.

All right? The alleged perp, the friend, air quotey, air quotey, Brad Clement is behind bars. He was apprehended walking across the Publix grocery store parking lot and put down on his belly in the rain. I love that picture. And let me tell you something, guys. Looks are deceiving. I met with this guy in his hotel room in his flop house for hours, hours. He could not have been more affable,

likable, laid back. Of course, I couldn't help but notice that the moment I shut the door, he skipped, quit his job and skipped town. It was nowhere to be seen when I brought up the idea of a polygraph, Ixnay on the polygraph. Anyway, it was very clear to me that he wanted no involvement in this. And he just couldn't get out of my talking to him because I was right there in his room. There was nowhere to go. So he was very likable and affable, but looks can be deceiving. Would you agree with that, Jessica Knoll? Looks can be deceiving for sure.

I mean, you just never know who you're sitting next to anymore. As a matter of fact, let me take you right back to that moment You just never know who you're sitting next to anymore. As a matter of fact, let me take you right back to that moment when I was sitting on Brad Clement's unmade bed and he was spinning a yarn about what happened the day Chase Masner went missing. Listen, he was cornered. He had nowhere to go. He couldn't get away from me. Listen.

Take me through what happened that when he goes missing I mean it's really not that much like it's like everybody says I like changed my story and all this stuff but it's like that was like what I did that day you know I mean that wasn't really anything to do with Chase it was like you know I ran a bunch of errands what I was doing you know most time when I was fixing up my house like Like, he was there that night and then, you know, basically left sometime between when I was coming back from the store to when I started cooking. Like, I mean, he had to have. Like, I mean, that's the only logical thing. So we are waiting for the official cause of death if we can get one. It may be undetermined by a homicidal act. We'll see what the medical

examiner will tell us. We are watching the case and bringing you the latest. Team Chase, thank you, not just for being with us. There's 14 Team Chase members right now on the line with me. God bless you, everybody, Tammy, everyone. Lee Egan, Crime Online, and Jessica Knoll, NBC11 Alive, searching for justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.