Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - URGENT: LITTLE CHARLOTTE, 9, MISSING FROM BIKE RIDE

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Charlotte Sena, 9, disappears during a family camping trip at Moreau Lake State Park. The camping facility in upstate New York is now closed to the public as authorities continue their search. The 4th grader was riding her bicycle on a last trip for the day around the access of Loop A campsites. When she had been gone longer than expected, her parents began searching and then called police.  Dozens of agents swarmed the park with dogs, drones, boats, and a helicopter. Sena has been missing for three days.   Anyone with information is asked to call 518-457-6811 or send an email to [e-mail]. Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Jené Sena – Charlotte’s aunt  Donna Kelly – Former Utah Senior Deputy District Attorney and Attorney for Crime Victims Legal Clinic; Helped form the Utah County Sex Crimes Task Force   Dr. Gary Brucato - Clinical psychologist, Author: “The New Evil: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime”  Justin Boardman - Former Detective, West Valley City Police Department Special Victim’s Unit, Boardman Training & Consulting   Mark Hopkins –   Chief of Field Operations, Greater Philadelphia Search & Rescue (GPSAR), www.gpsar.org,  Nicole Partin –  CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Twitter: @nicolepartin  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Every parent's worst nightmare. We are asking for your help. We desperately need your help. A nine-year-old little girl out on a camping trip with her family goes for one more loop around the campground with her bike and now she's missing. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and SiriusXM

111. Where is little Charlotte? Listen. An urgent search for a nine-year-old girl who went missing from a New York State Park while camping with her family. The day turned into every parent's nightmare. Officials say Charlotte Senna simply vanished from Moreau Lake State Park north of Albany. She was last seen Saturday riding bikes with friends around dinner time. She's finally going around one more time by herself. Be that big girl, do it by herself. When she hadn't returned 15 minutes later, her parents knew immediately something was up. Just 15 minutes? That's all it took for this beautiful little girl to seemingly vanish off the face of the earth? You are hearing from our friends at

ABC. Now take a listen to WRGB6. What was supposed to be a fun fall weekend has turned into a nightmare for the family of nine-year-old Charlotte Senna. She is a blonde, adorable little nine-year-old girl with bangs. She has green eyes, just under five feet feet tall and she is just a sweet adorable girl charlotte and friends went for a bike ride around loop a where their cabin is located charlotte went for one last ride by herself before heading back after 15 minutes she hadn't returned guys with me an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, but joining us in the midst of the search and all of the confusion and the chaos surrounding the search for this little girl, just nine years old, Charlotte's aunt is with us, Janae Senna. Ms. Senna, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much, Nancy, for bringing attention to what's going on with Charlotte.

Guys, the tip line, 518-457-6811. Repeat, 518-457-6811. There is time to bring little Charlotte home. I'm trying to understand what happened, but I got to tell you, Ms. Sena, that when I heard the story and realized what had happened, I've done the same exact thing. We RV and camp a lot. And the last time we took an RV trip all the way across the country to the Tetons, whenever we go to an RV camp, my son insisted we bring his bike. And he was just a year or two older than Charlotte. And he wanted to ride all the way around the loop of the RV camp

or the campground every single night. And I would go out and follow him. But bike he would be you know out of my sight but i would know he wasn't that far right yeah and the proximity of where her where she was if you could see it you would it's so close i mean it's it would it was visible to with our camps. So that's what's so crazy about this. You're saying that her course, that Charlotte was riding on her bike, the whole time was visible from the campsite? Not if she came around the other side of the loop, because it's one way. They actually have one-way signs that go around. So if she was on the other side, no.

But where she was left and last seen and where they found her bike was visible. That just doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying that what you're saying is incorrect. I'm saying, how did this happen? Right. And when you're saying, okay, I'm trying to envision, is it cabins or tents? It's tents. But a lot of people have those like pop up, I guess, campers, they call them, you know, the little ones. Right. So there's a big grouping of them. And then there is the loop that goes around that. Is that right yes so and like i said it actually has one-way signs so you can only drive you know because cars can drive you can only drive one way around it and this was during dinner time where everybody was out on their site it was 75 degree beautiful day it wasn't dark yet

uh quite dark yet there it is cut into the middle of a forest with giant trees so granted as the sun starts to come down it gets a little darker faster than than other places perhaps but it wasn't dark yet um everybody was out and about and that's what's so crazy about it guys you're hearing uh janae sinna this is charlotte's aunt joining Again, 518-457-6811. Ms. Senna, I'm trying to give everyone a visual. This little nine-year-old girl, she was last wearing an orange tie-dye Pokemon shirt. It's actually pink. Pink.

Oh, I'm so glad you told us that. No, I know. I had to correct the information in the Amber Alert after it went out the first time. And then for some reason now on the Amber Alert page, it's saying she's 5'6". And we actually told the police 4'7", and then they put 4'6". But that's close enough, honestly.

And then they didn't have her eye color. I gave it to them. It's green. And then they had the shirt as orange. It's actually pink. So I don't know. But, you know, we're all, everybody's there. The state police have been, I think, you know we're all everybody's there the police police

have been i think you know they're honestly overwhelmed too just like everybody else yeah now let me ask you something um this is at moreau state park in gavin stewart new york yes to you nicole parton joining us crime online.com investigative reporter where is that exactly and is that upstate new york where is that? This is in Saratoga County. So this is about 50 miles north of Albany, New York. Okay. So it's way upstate because you've got New York City, then Albany's up, you know, a little off to one side, but beyond that.

And so this is how far above Albany? 50 miles north of Albany. So an hour north. And Ms. Sina, Janae Sina, Charlotte's aunt, how far is this from the family home? Very close, actually. I would say 10 to 15 minutes away. So it's a, it's, I mean, they love to camp and they camp at, you know, on the, on the Cape in different places, but this is like kind of their close by spot would you say that charlotte was familiar with the area i don't think she was super familiar with it no uh but again like they had

they had a group of friends that they camp with regularly camping with them were they with those friends this time yes yes who are those friends uh very good very good longtime friends of my brother and sister-in-law who also have children the same age and charlotte was with her sister um who is 11 and her the friend who was around the same age and they apparently were like done bike riding you know and Charlotte had said just oh do one more lap with me and they kind of I guess the friend threw down her bike and said no I'm done I'm parking my bike and kind of what took off back to the campsite and that was the last time anybody saw Charlotte. Guys take a listen to this. Her mom calling 911 to report her missing. Multiple agencies combing Moreau Lake State Park from the air and the ground using dogs and drones.

Authorities issuing an Amber Alert this morning. After that exhaustive search when we couldn't find her here, it was quite possible that an abduction had taken place. Charlotte's family describing her as a joyful fourth grader who had just been elected to student council. To Donna Kelly joining me, former Utah senior deputy district attorney. Donna, thank you for being with us. Just 15 minutes later, 911 was called. Is that right, Janae?

I think Tricia actually told me like 10 minutes had gone by i know that everybody's reporting 15 i mean literally tricia they were cooking dinner so the friend dave david's friend charlotte's father had his back to the loop where they were riding bikes because he was at the grill and david was there kind of watching and tricia took the little one they have a little three-year-old to the bathroom and then she came back from the bathroom and David was there kind of watching and Trisha took the little one they have a little three-year-old to the bathroom and then she came back from the bathroom and it was kind of like oh where's Charlotte so that I mean it was such a short amount of really a short amount of time. Let me ask you how long is the loop if you were walking the loop as an adult you were just walking

it yourself how long would it take you to walk the loop? Yeah, I mean, I was walking around it yesterday. 15, 10, 15 minutes. Okay, so 15 minutes walking. So it couldn't have been much over a mile. If you're just walking at a normal pace, sounds like a one mile loop. Okay, back to you. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Donna Kelly joining us. Donna. Yes. Let me clarify one more thing janae so it was after your sister-in-law realizes that charlotte is she doesn't see her on the loop yeah she's gone to take the three-year-old to the bathroom she comes back it's time for supper and she doesn't see charlotte so it's 10 minutes after that that 9-1-1 is called well because it took them a couple minutes to walk, I guess, the other little girl that had been with Charlotte kind of took them down to where she left her. And it was a 20 feet, maybe a little bit ways down the hill. And that's where they found her bike.

So when they found her bike, is that when they call 911? Yes, that's that's I think there was a little bit of looking around sort of thing. And then Tricia immediately called 9-1-1 and reported it. Okay. Donna Kelly, my point is, and each minute of course is important. And I'm getting a sign waved at me from Jackie that the loop is one-third of a mile loop a is the same on all campsites is that what you're trying to tell me Jackie okay so one-third of a mile Donna Kelly I mean of course I know that there are ways that this can happen but to have Charlotte disappear after just literally minutes happening, minutes passing, and then no sign of her at all? That would suggest a car.

What do you think? It could be. We here in Utah have had the experience, sadly, of the Elizabeth Smoltz case. And Elizabeth completely disappeared from her home and within minutes was reported by her little sister. There were people searching in a very short time, but she was actually abducted and taken just a little ways from her home, which was kind of a rural wooded area. So it can happen very quickly and with very little trace. Guys, I want to break down what we know right now.

With me is Janae Sena. This is Charlotte's aunt. To you, Justin Boardman joining us, a former detective with the West Valley City PD Special Victims Unit. Weigh in. Yeah, that was a really quick disappearance. And it sounds like the family, I mean, they reported extremely fast. So it would kind of point to the direction of a car like what you were saying, because it would be something that would be gone really quickly. I think that you have to set up your perimeter to start searching the area.

I think that you also see how close to water the bike was. I don't know the area. And you would start searching from there. I also remember I thought somebody said they were staying in a cabin, but it was also an RV sort of thing. Okay, let's find out about that. Janae sent a, was it a cabin, a tent, or an RV? So, Dave and Tricia have a little pop-up camper and a tent

on the site that we're staying with friends. So, there, as to my knowledge, there are no cabins. So, it's a pop-up camper. Yes, and one thing I want to mention that I don't think anybody has reported yet, but something that just has been observed, is that where the specific location

where her bike was found, if you just go down a little hill, sort of, of like wooded area, but kind of clear, is the North Way. The what? The North Way, which is kind of our major thoroughfare. Like once, if you get to Albany

and then the through way becomes west that's it and you want to go north it's called the north way which is 87. Okay let's go with that right there Mark Hopkins joining me chief of field operations greater Philly search and rescue GPSAR greater Philly search and rescue Mark right there because if they in, if LA law enforcement came in quickly, within 15 to 30 minutes max, and they're not picking anything up on a drone or a a certain point. And then the Thruway becomes west and east up here. And there, 87 continues. And it's known as the North Way, which goes from Saratoga up to, I think, like Canada. Okay. Mark Hopkins, Chief of Field Operations, Greater Philly Search and Rescue.

That's it. That's it. That's what happened. What do you think well i think that if if the person to the car clearly changes things all the efforts in the park would be for naught because they're not there but what our job is in search and rescue is to in these instances the world gets real big real fast and time starts to move different. And our job is to shrink it back down to something that's manageable and get time back under control as best we can and not be looking in the entire world. And that involves investigation. And with the proliferation of camera phones and things of that nature in this day and age, what they've got to do is people in parks are creatures of habit.

The same people come on the same days at the same times typically they need to extensively interview them because somebody saw something they just don't think it's important right now but it is let's go over the description again charlotte senna just nine years old third grade pink tie-dye pokemon shirt dark blue pants are they long or short janae i believe leggings nancy leggings probably quick question uh janae the gray helmet was it found the biking helmet no it was not helmet still gone bike was the bike up on the kickstand or was it just thrown down i've heard conflicting reports about that. I also have heard that there was a passerby that claims they moved the bike because it was laying

down in the middle of the road. I was initially told it was up on its kickstand, but then these people came by and said, well, we found it in the middle of the road and we wanted to drive through. So we moved it. And I don't see any reason that they would make that up. Right. So bike in the middle of the road, helmet gone. So she didn't take off her helmet. Blonde with bangs, green eyes, 4'7", 90 pounds. Third grade, right, Janae?

Fourth grade. Fourth grade. Oh, gosh. Okaye? Fourth grade. Fourth grade. Oh, gosh. Okay. Everybody, weigh in. Dr. Gary Bricado is with us, clinical psychologist and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime. Weigh in, Dr. Bricado. Sure. So obviously with these kind of events, the first thing that has to happen is a ruling out of a simpler explanation, like an accident, falling into water, things like that.

But once that's been ruled out and a lot of time has gone by, obviously our thoughts have to begin to move in the direction of an abduction. And one thing that I would point out right away is that people who abduct children really seem to fall into two broad buckets. The first are a kind of more psychopathic, scheming type of person who would groom a child over time, you know, to lure them. But the other type, the type that would more quickly operate like this, tends to be a more peculiar, odd person because they don't have the social skills to lure someone like that. So those kinds of people, because they're a little bit more odd and disorganized, tend to be a little bit more local and a little bit less clever and creative. And how they do this, it's more like an opportunistic thing pops up, they snatch. And, and, you know, so that what I think you're looking for is probably somebody

who doesn't live very far from that area and who most likely has had a history consistent with this kind of thing. A person, you know, doesn't tend to do this out of nowhere. They tend to have a history of it. I can tell you that with a quick search, the Saratoga County has about 200 registered offenders on record. You mean sex offenders? Yes, sex offenders. And it has a crime rate that is about two per 1,000, you know, crime, two people per 1,000 individuals, which is not the lowest crime rate. That's only lower than about 25% of places in the state. So it is a place where it is possible that something like that happened. But I think it is useful to think about the idea that this is probably somebody who isn't coming from very far away. For example, we can't really picture somebody sitting and trolling, waiting for this to happen.

It was far more likely somebody said, oh, there is a child that is riding alone. I don't see any parents. Let me open the car door, pull the kid in. And so, you know, that's the kind of person you're looking for here. Hold on. I want to follow up on multiple things that you just said. Number one, Janae Senna, did the loop that she was riding on her bike go anywhere near down the hill

where a driver would have seen her? Yes, no. Another driver. Well, here's the thing, Nancy.ancy like i said earlier it's a one way i know it's one way right but did the loop was the loop close to the north way could you see the loop from the highway yes but i don't believe a vehicle could go down it's like an embankment into the woods so i don't believe if that is that scenario, I

think they would have had to go out through the park. So that's another kind of crazy thing that we can't wrap our heads around. Let me understand what you're saying because we cannot envision it. Yeah. Janae Sinha is with us. This is Charlotte's aunt. So from the highway,

from the north way that you described to us, you can see the loop where Charlotte was riding her bike. Yes. I don't believe I, you can see the North way from the loop. I don't believe you could see the loop from the North way. If that makes sense. It's you'd be looking up the mountain sort of through trees got it but yet her bike was found in the road on the north way no in the loop okay i thought you told me it was down the hill no the bike is in a spot on the loop so on the particular loop it's like the only spot where you could actually kind of look down and see the north way i see i see so if say there if someone was traveling on foot some for some reason you know left a car on the side

of the north i don't know i'm just saying runs up the hill something along those lines got it otherwise if they're driving through the loop they had to have just continued on the one way and then you don't have to go around it again. You could just go right out the entrance to Loop 8. So are you saying on this loop that it's only, according to Jackie, one third of a mile? Are you sure? That sounds about right. Are vehicles allowed on the loop?

Yes, it's a one way road. How do you get off of it? You can just, you just literally drive around from where their campsite is. You drive around the corner and then the entrance to loop A is right there. And then you make a left and another immediate left. And that is the entrance to the park. That is the gate. Oh, so you were close to the gate.

Yes. Of the park. I guess that's why it's A. Is it the closest one to the to the entrance yes yes so there could have been a car there i i see i see what you're saying i see what you're saying very quickly uh janae is there any body of water near there oh a huge lake yes Yes. Moreau Lake. And there is a separate, I just learned because I was looking at maps and stuff and reading tips from people that were messaging me.

And there's a separate smaller lake next to it called Bonita Lake. Bonita? Bonita. Bonita, like, like Bonita Springs. I don't know if it reminds me of in Florida. So there's Moreau Lake,

which is rather large um in my opinion and then bonita lake right next to it janae have they brought in tracker dogs oh yeah that was one of the first things they did in the overnight hours um saturday night what did they come up with regarding tracker dogs um i'm not sure because the police really aren't giving any information on that to us at least so what happened in those critical first moments take a listen to our friends at wrgb family friends and nearby campers went looking for her at approximately 6 45 p.m charl Charlotte's bike was located in Loop A, and at 6.47 p.m., Charlotte's mom, Tricia, called 911 to report the child missing.

Massive search efforts have been going since 7 p.m. Saturday with drones, canine officers, aviation, and water search and rescue teams canvassing the state park. Charlotte was last seen wearing an orange tie-dye Pokemon t-shirt, blue pants, black Crocs, and a gray bike helmet. Okay, we know it's pink. We know there are a few discrepancies there. She's 4'7", 90 pounds, pink tie-dye, Pokemon shirt, dark blue pants, probably tights, black Crocs, gray helmet. Her gray helmet has not been found, so obviously she was taken in the gray helmet. I guess one of the first things they did, Nicole Parton, is to search every camper tent and cabin

there. Yes? No? Yes. Even the governor made a statement that every cabin, tent, table, everything, nothing was left unturned. They did an immediate search. Also interesting, there are 31 campsites in Loop A, Nancy. This is a busy loop. 31 campsites in that particular loop with a restroom and shower facility right in the center of the loop. The recycle, the trash bins right on the outside. A lot of activity, especially in the afternoon. People are grilling 630. People are outside doing the restroom breaks.

I mean, that's a lot of people. Someone had to see something. They had to. They had to, Nicole Parton. And what you said about the governor is correct. Take a listen to our cut for WRGB6. Governor Kathy Hochul at the search site on Sunday afternoon saying she has promised the Sena family law enforcement will bring Charlotte home. We are leaving no stone, no branch, no table, no cabin, unturned, untouched, unexamined,

in our search to find Charlotte. She's all of our daughters. Their family needs love. They need prayers. Now, I know that the camp was closed down. Moreau Lake State Park in New York closes amid the search for nine-year-old Charlotte. Now, I appreciate what the governor says. I take everything a politician says with a box of salt, but in this case, it may actually be helpful to the search for Charlotte. Now, let me understand the steps that were taken. The Cole Parton, Janae Sena, everybody jump in on the panel, please. I understand that campers, tents, cabins were immediately searched. Now, does that include all 31 campsites, Janae?

So here was my thing about that. Just even while I was there yesterday, there were still people coming and going that were camping there, I guess, because they were trying to kind of clear them out, but they had to come back and get their stuff or whatever it was. So like we were in the middle of the loop at one point and there was a woman in a Jeep who looked aggravated and gave us a dirty look that we were like in her way. And I go, who was that? You know, so the police were like at the gate,

you know, checking people and that sort of thing. But there were like still a lot of strange people around and it wasn't kind of fully cleared out until about six o'clock. Until about six o'clock. You mean this whole thing went down around 630 to 7 p.m. So 24 hours later, jump in. This is Justin. Hey, you know, one of the things I would do is certainly start in the campground where we would be identifying the people in the different camp spots. You know, did they register their names on a book? How did they pay? And then taking a look at their history. I think that our suspect, if you will, would have been somebody that

certainly knows the area. But when you're hunting, sorry, but when you're hunting for kids, it's certainly going to be an opportunity to jump in and snag one, but you're going to also run this through your head a lot. You're going to be thinking about your exit strategy and things like that. Then you just wait for the opportunity. So somebody would be a little bit more familiar with the campgrounds and the exit strategy. Maybe they were actually camping there, saw the opportunity, matched her up, and then took off. You know, they had bloodhounds also right there soon. Bloodhounds are incredible trackers. So if they didn't get a track on which way or to the water,

more likely than not, I would agree with you that somebody snatched her up in a car. Okay. You're hearing Justin Boardman, former detective straight out to you, Mark Hopkins, weigh in on what's your theory right now if every one of the 31 campsites have been checked and that's what i'm getting from janae well if you're going with

abduction as a theory and that's not an invalid theory okay what's the alternative um something happened and frightened her and she ran into the woods. A medical emergency, an animal, something else. There are other possibilities. Okay, let me just go out on a limb here. She's camped here several times. She did not run into the woods and stayed hiding there even when her parents were calling her. Now, is she in the woods incapacitated? Maybe, but she did not run in there and ignore people calling her. I do not think there has been a wild animal attack. I think we would have seen evidence of that. And her bike being in the middle of the road, to me, precludes evidence of an animal attack.

And also, when you have evidence of an animal attack, you see tracks where the body is dragged. The problem I have with the camper doing it is that it would take a lot more time than this person had. A lot more what? Time that this person had to snatch her and break down a camp, potentially. And break down a camp. Well, what if they're in a camper on wheels? There's nothing to break down. Yeah. Well, if they're in a camper and they were registered there, then it's a short thing about going to the list of people that were registered to be there. That's a little easier.

I hope it would be something that simple. Okay. Let's move forward, guys. Take a listen to our cut three from emma quinn during a press conference new york state police were questioned why since the search started saturday evening they waited to send an amber alert for charlotte until sunday morning following our exhaustive search of the park uh we we took that that step of issuing the amber alert because we we we felt uh that after that exhaustive search when we couldn't find her here, it was quite possible that an abduction had taken place.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Donna Kelly, joining us, former Utah Senior Deputy District Attorney and Attorney for Crime Victims, an Amber Alert. Everyone always attacks the police because they delay an Amber Alert. And sometimes those attacks are justified. But in this case, I believe they were searching the entire area before they issued an Amber Alert. And I don't have a problem with that. I mean, I wish it had been sooner. But given they were out searching, bringing in canines and search activities,

I don't think they did anything wrong. No, it sounds like to me that the priority was get the area, you know, cleared first. And I agree with that. Guys, very often Amber Alerts are issued if police believe a car is involved. Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com. Jump in, Nicole. Sure. And I think after they brought in, I was told they brought in 100 personnel. They brought the dogs, the drones, the boats. They started six underwater rescue teams. When all of that found nothing, no results, it was quite obvious this had to be leaning toward an abduction. And in that loop, the only way out would be by vehicle,

whether that's an RV, a car, a truck, something on that loop. I'm looking at the, in fact, the one you sent us is a really, we've been looking online. This is a really good explanation. Guys, when we're saying a loop, this is what we mean. There's the entrance to the park. You turn in and there's a big, it looks kind of like the shape of a baked potato. Okay, there's a big baked potato and coming off the baked potato are 31 little arrows. Okay. Each one of those is a campsite. There are 31 smaller campsites

and those campsites may accommodate, let's just say, what would you say? 10 families max. What about it, Janae? I'm not sure, honestly. Like I know that at their particular campsite, they were able to put a very large tent and a pop-up camper tent and camper yeah and but there were other families there as well that they didn't know correct well yeah all around the loop i know but i'm just talking about their campsite campsite number one how many other families were there they're just they're just friends, nobody that they didn't know at their particular, but it's all open. It's not like there's, I mean, I'm not a camper, so I, you know, I don't know too much about how it normally is, but it's not like there's a gate

in between or anything like that. You can walk from one to the next. Oh, they, yeah, they, they run right into the next and there's just a post with each number and theirs was about theirs is about halfway up the what like I said one way so about halfway up the one side and let me ask you were they in campsite number one no I wonder do you know which campsite they were in I believe 16 okay 16 is about halfway around. Yeah. Got it. So with that in mind, I want to go through what the search efforts entailed. What do we know right now about the search efforts that were implemented immediately? And the call for tips.

Take a listen to, again, Emma Quinn. Charlotte's aunt, Janae Sena, spoke on behalf of the family saying, No tip is insignificant. So if anyone has any information at all, saw anything in the vicinity of the entrance to the Moreau Lake State Park or are camping here and have any information at all if anyone has any information you saw something you heard something you are asked to call the number on your screen here or call 9-1-1 from what I can tell everything has been done at that site and I'm guessing that the campers were not allowed to leave without their vehicle or their camper being searched but, if the dogs didn't pick up anything to lead them to a specific part of the camp, I'm not sure she was taken to a camper

or one of the tents. I mean, to Dr. Gary Bricado, clinical psychologist, Dr. Riccardo, I would think that had someone taken her to their tent or their camper to let's just play it out to molest her and or kill her, the dogs would absolutely have picked up that scent. I have no doubt in my mind. I would be more inclined to think that someone passing in a vehicle opportunistically snatched her and left the park. But that it would be somebody familiar with the area and wouldn't have taken her very far out of the park. I don't think this is somebody commuting from very far away. It was just somebody with this kind of tendency who said, wow, you know, opportunity has placed this person in my path. Open the car door without any probably much talking or anything and drove off would be my supposition.

That quickly. I think she was yanked off of her bike or she may have been lured, such as have you seen my puppy luring. But it was such a quick thing. Once they can get their hand on the child, if the child gets close enough to the car, that's all it takes. Once they get their hand around the child's arm, it's over. Nancy, it's Justin. Yes.

One thing that we haven't discussed, and it may not be an issue, just brainstorming, are there any custody issues everyone keeps asking this information and no okay so no custody got a question what about cameras on the loop do you know anything about are there cameras on the campsite janae there was a rumor on facebook that there was a trail cam. I do not, to my knowledge, I do not know anything about that. And I've only seen it on this particular Facebook post that keeps getting shared and shared with me. And I've also been told that at the entrance, there should be some sort of camera or recording device for license plates, but the police haven't shared that with us so if they are working that

angle i they are doing it without you know talking about it essentially um it's hard to believe in this day and age that there are no cameras do you know if the family heard any cars any screeching of tires any scream any anything i actually asked that question yesterday of the friend that was camping with them and uh because he's the one that had his back to the loop because he was cooking uh grilling and he said janae if if they if she screamed that we wouldn't think anything of it because there's screams of joy i mean there's so many children every campsite had several bikes in front of it they all ride their bikes around the. This is the thing they do at this campsite. So like to the point of one of your other panelists that, yes, someone who's familiar with this campsite would know there's children on bikes and likely there's going to be one that's going to be alone for a second.

But yes, they would. They make lots of noise it was very noisy i think you're right dr brucato i think someone saw her took advantage an opportunist with the proclivity to fantasize or dream about children grabbed her put her in a car and took off because the dogs did not lead ellie to a campsite a tent or a pop-up. The dogs would have picked up her tent. I have no doubt about that. That only leaves her being in the water, which sometimes they could pick that up too, or having been taken in a car, and I think that is someone that lives nearby. Guys, the tip line 518-457-6811. Repeat 518-457-6811. There is a chance, a strong chance we could bring Charlotte home alive with every hour that passes. That chance diminishes. If you think you know anything, please call the tip line. Goodbye, friend.

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