Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - US Banker takes family on Anguilla vacation, charged with felony after struggle with hotel maintenance man who enters family hotel room AND a new bombshell in the case of Jussie Smollett

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

Gavin "Scott" Hapgood, is charged with manslaughter while on vacation in Anguilla. He claims a maintenance worker came to his hotel room, threatened his family and demanded money. He says a struggle l...ed to the death of Kenny Mitchel.And...The latest twist and turns in the Jussie Smollett case, including Kim Foxx subpoenaed.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Wendy Patrick: Trial Attorney & author of “Red Flags”Bobby Chacon: Retired FBI special agentDr. William July: PsychologistDr. Kris Sperry: Retired Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia  John Lemley: Crime online investigative reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Authorities tell the Associated Press that Hapgood's young daughters were in the hotel room when Kenny Mitchell was killed. Investigators have not reported a motive for his death, and Anguilla officials say they're struggling to find answers to the many questions that remain in this case. Anguilla's police department says officers were called to investigate Kenny Mitchell's death shortly after 4 p.m. on April 13th. The 27-year-old father worked at a luxury resort on the island's west end. An autopsy report shows he was beaten and choked to death. Three days later,
Starting point is 00:00:51 police charged Scott Hapgood with manslaughter. The 44-year-old from Connecticut was vacationing on the island with his family and staying at the hotel where Mitchell was allegedly employed as a maintenance worker. A spokeswoman for Hapgood says the worker showed up unannounced in uniform at the hotel room, claiming he was there to fix a broken sink before carrying out his sudden, violent attack on the family. She alleges he was armed and demanding money. Mitchell's uncle, Victor, says that's not true. Hapgood was originally denied bail from prison, but later released on a $74,000 bond following an appeal from his attorney. Local reports say many Anguillans are angry and demanding Hapgood return to the island to face
Starting point is 00:01:30 justice. How did a UBS investment banker, a 44-year-old father of two little girls vacationing in Anguilla with his wife and children, end up being charged with homicide. What happened in that luxury hotel room? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I'm talking about dad and husband, Scott Hapgood. The facts are very, very murky, but this much I do know. The father, Scott Hapgood, was in his own hotel room. His two little daughters were also in the hotel room when the maintenance worker comes in. I know that much, and those facts alone tell me a lot. I know this father wasn't out drunk at a bar getting into a fistfight. I know he didn't run the guy down on the side of the road. I know there wasn't a gun involved, which in my mind lends itself to a certain degree of premeditation.
Starting point is 00:02:35 The father was in his own hotel room on vacation with his two little girls when a male maintenance worker comes in the hotel room. Let's just jump off from there with me an all-star panel. Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent. Dr. William July, licensed clinical psychologist. Dr. Chris Sperry, former chief medical examiner. and John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Okay, Limley, how does a well-respected investment banker, 44-year-old husband and father of two, end up charged with homicide when he was in his own room in a hotel with his children with the door locked? The story we hear, Nancy, is that around 4 p.m. late afternoon, a security worker at this luxurious resort was alerted by other employees that there was some commotion
Starting point is 00:03:33 going on in one of the hotel's suites. And when he arrives, the security guard and other members find Scott Hapgood on top of this maintenance worker, Kenny Mitchell, has him in a chokehold with his knee in Mitchell's back. And as we've heard in that news clip, Hapgood's children and wife were right there in the room. In fact, his wife was reportedly filming the incident on her cell phone. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent. The wife is filming the incident? That tells me it's not something nefarious on the dad, Hapgood's fault.
Starting point is 00:04:14 Because why would your wife film you doing something wrong? I mean, Chacon, help me out. That's right. And yeah, you're exactly right, Nancy. And this is going to be the linchpin to this case. I mean, whatacon, help me out. That's right. And yeah, you're exactly right, Nancy. And that's this is going to be the linchpin to this case. I mean, what's on that tape? I've heard it from several different sources now that this was happening. So I'm assuming the authorities have seen this tape.
Starting point is 00:04:36 If not, I'm assuming his lawyers, Hopkins lawyers, have at least seen the video. What's on that phone? And that's going to really be a major, major piece of evidence in this case. Okay, call me provincial. But I get very nervous when a US citizen goes abroad, and suddenly they catch a homicide charge. How does that happen? Okay, I just scared myself. Dr. Chris Berry, former chief medical examiner, you and I prosecuted a lot of homicides together. Well, you didn't prosecute. You were, you know, an objective purveyor of the truth. But I just caught myself using defense attorney language. You catch a charge like somebody just
Starting point is 00:05:19 throws it at you. Typically, you do something very, very bad to be charged with a felony. But this guy's in Anguilla. He's now charged with beating and strangling or asphyxiating this maintenance worker dead. How do we know? How can you look at a body, Dr. Sperry, and determine its asphyxiation, strangling, suffocation? Well usually there's the presence of injuries around the neck that would show that there has been compression of the neck of some way there has been fingers fingernails fingernail marks something like that and what we'll see is also what are called petechial hemorrhages or little pinpoint
Starting point is 00:06:02 hemorrhages on the surfaces of the eyes and over the face and in the lips. And those, especially in adults, are very reliable external signs that there has been some kind of neck compression, a strangulation or a chokehold, something like that. Let me ask you a question, Dr. Crisberry. When you say if you are asphyxiated, and that could be smothered with a pillow, it could be a plastic bag over your head. I think that's one of the first cases you and I had where a woman was asphyxiated with a laundry bag over her head. She actually breathed the laundry bag up into her nose and mouth. And I remember asking you, what are those particles around her nose and mouth? And
Starting point is 00:06:44 you said, oh, that's where we had to pick the plastic off her face because she had breathed in the laundry bag trying desperately to breathe. So smother, asphyxiation, strangulation, be it manual with your hands or ligature with a, let's just say, a nylon stocking. But in all of those cases, do you have the hemorrhaging of the petechiae in the eyes, and what is that? The little pinpoint hemorrhages, the petechiae, come from pressure. It's either pressure on the veins in the neck that prevent the blood from flowing back down into the heart, and so little blood vessels rupture. And they're also caused by pressure, intense pressure in the chest if a person is struggling to breathe and can't. And when this happens, the pressure inside of the heart extends up into the veins in
Starting point is 00:07:41 the neck and the face and causes these little ruptures. So with smothering and strangulation, ligature strangulation, manual strangulation, we see the petechial hemorrhages very, very frequently. With something like a plastic bag over the face, it can be much more difficult. There usually are some petechiae, but sometimes very, very few. It could be very difficult. And if the perpetrator removes the plastic bag after the person is dead, it could be almost impossible to determine why the person died. Well, it doesn't make sense to me, Dr. William G. Eli, a psychologist joining us, why a 44-year-old dad would attack someone for no reason in his hotel room in front of his two
Starting point is 00:08:28 little girls and his wife. Well, Nancy, I certainly agree with what you said earlier. I think it all gives us the creeps when we hear a story like this, because when we're traveling abroad, it's our worst nightmare for something like this to happen. I want to preface what I say with that. People have a behavioral history, which usually, not always, not always, but usually indicates a pattern of behavior, or at least some red flags, or maybe some yellow flags of things that they might be capable of doing in the future. So I would be interested if I were involved in this case as a psychologist of going back through his psychological history and story, a psychological type story. What, if any, are indication or evidence of is there that he would do something like this? And it's usually you have to talk, do collateral interviews with people that know the person because there are things that people, the average person will miss that I probably wouldn't miss. The father was in his own hotel room. His two little daughters
Starting point is 00:09:31 were also in the hotel room when the maintenance worker comes in. The father, Scott Hapgood, ends up charged with homicide when he was in his own room in a hotel with his children with the door locked. Well, I have another tidbit, a piece of the puzzle. To Dr. Chris Sperry, this is very, very important, Dr. Sperry. He didn't die from strangulation. He died from asphyxia because of position, positional asphyxia, like when a little baby is put to sleep in a car seat and its little head bends down toward its chest, it can actually suffocate that way because of its position.
Starting point is 00:10:17 That tells me a lot. Explain why that's so significant, Dr. Sperry. Well, that indicates that either the suspect had control over the person, like is described here, behind him with a knee in his back and an arm across his chest. And by putting pressure on his back, had him in a position where he just could not breathe adequately. And sometimes this can extend to be even very complicated where someone is tied in a hog tie position where their hands tied behind their back and their feet brought up and tied to the hands. And if any, at that point, they're helpless. And if any weight of any sort or pressure is put on their back, that is positional asphyxia and will cause the person to die from
Starting point is 00:11:06 inability to breathe properly. Take a listen to this. Still a lot of questions about what led to this deadly incident inside Hapgood's hotel room. But today, a spokesman for the Royal Anguilla Police Force confirmed his young daughters were there at the time. This video shows Gavin Scott Hapgood in handcuffs while on vacation in Anguilla, charged with the death of an employee at the hotel where Hapgood was staying with his family.
Starting point is 00:11:34 The victim, 27 year old Kenny Mitchell, a maintenance worker at the five Star Molly Ohana Resort. Mitchell's death certificate shows he died from prone restraint, asphyxia, and blood force trauma to his head, neck, and torso. Mr. Mitchell, Kenny, was a hard-working young man, fun and entertaining, but most of all,
Starting point is 00:11:55 he was a son, a brother, an uncle, and more importantly, a father. Hayden Hughes is a former member of parliament who's become the spokesperson for the group now working for justice for Mitchell. Hapgood was initially denied bail, but later released on a $74,000 bond, angering many people in Anguilla. This event has placed a spotlight on the wheels of justice, and it is apparent that there is a real need for criminal justice reform. Hapgood is now back in the United States. He works as a financial advisor for UBS, which issued this statement. We are aware of the recent events in Anguilla and are following the situation closely. As you will appreciate, it would not be appropriate for us to provide any comment in relation to an active criminal proceeding.
Starting point is 00:12:41 Hapgood's attorney did not return calls for comment. Hapgood is expected back in court calls for comment. Hapgood is expected back in court in Anguilla on August 22nd. You're hearing from our friend Marisa Alter at News 12 Connecticut. I just got to tell you something and everybody hold on to your hat. I don't believe that's the way this happened because I don't think that this is a murder and I'll tell you why. There may be facts that suggest otherwise as the case develops. But this guy is in his room minding his own business with his wife and his two young daughters. His hotel room with the door locked. He's a 44-year-old man. Who is the aggressor? The 27-year-old
Starting point is 00:13:19 maintenance worker is the one who comes in the room. He did not seek this guy out. He didn't have a fight at a bar, blah, blah, as I've already described. The maintenance worker comes in the room. A father almost twice the guy's age picks a fight with a 27-year-old maintenance worker? No. And what is even more compelling to me is the mode of death, the cause of death. It is not a knife wound. It is not a bullet. It is positional asphyxia.
Starting point is 00:13:53 For some reason, this 44-year-old husband and dad had the guy on the ground holding him. And because of the position in which he was being held, he suffocated. That shows me there may not have been intent even to kill, but to restrain. To Bobby Chacon, retired FBI special agent, weigh in. Yeah, I think the difficult part in this case is going to be because of what you said in the positional asphyxia. We're going to really need a good forensic examination of that room. And in some of these foreign cases that I've involved in, we haven't gotten that.
Starting point is 00:14:29 And so people enter that room, security personnel, hotel personnel, we're going to want to know where the position of the furniture is, the condition of the furniture, beyond what's on the, maybe on the wife's cell phone video. We're going to want to know the forensics of that, where blood may have been on the carpet, things like that. I hope that there was a very good forensic examination done of that room, but like I said, in some of these farm cases that I've worked, we just haven't got that forensic. Once that scene has been contaminated, it's lost.
Starting point is 00:15:00 You're going to have a he said, she said, if you don't have definitive evidence on that video. On a small island like this, those hotel personnel and those security for the hotel are going to be under tremendous pressure, public pressure, as you've already seen with one of the radio DJs that hosts down there, putting tremendous pressure on finding this guy guilty. And so, you know, you may not be getting the honest truth from the hotel personnel that were in that room. Well, something else you said, Bobby Chacon, is I don't necessarily trust other police departments in other countries to perform a sophisticated forensic sweep of the room. Exactly. I mean, and that that's true in smaller jurisdictions in the U.S. because they don't do it every day. It's something new. And I don't know what methods they have to save that forensic evidence.
Starting point is 00:15:49 But I can tell you this. I want you to take a listen to my buddy at CBS2, Tony Aiello. In an idyllic suburb, a family nightmare. Longtime Darien resident Scott Hapgood, a high school football star in the early 90s, now charged with manslaughter. Police in Anguilla say on April 13th, Hapgood killed hotel worker Kenny Mitchell, beating and choking him. It happened at the upscale Maliohana Resort, where Mitchell worked as a maintenance man. Now, a statement from a spokeswoman for Hapgood. Quote, attacked without warning in his family's hotel room by a maintenance worker
Starting point is 00:16:22 who was armed and demanding money, Scott Hapgood acted in self-defense to protect the lives of his young daughters and himself. The spokeswoman says Mitchell came to the room on a pretense before attacking Hapgood. Quote, the Hapgood family is traumatized by the assault they survived and are thankful to be alive. 1,800 miles from Darien, people in Anguilla are closely monitoring developments in the case. Mitchell is described as a gentle family man who doted on his daughter and loved his job. Some find it hard to believe Mitchell would suddenly turn to violence. There's also anger Hapgood was granted bond and allowed to fly back to the States. He's under orders to return for a court date in August.
Starting point is 00:17:03 You know, I'm just telling you, when you prosecute a case, after you get your case ready, the next thing you do is you anticipate what the defense is going to do so you can prepare for it. And I am telling you right now, the fact that this maintenance worker died of positional asphyxia, that he is the one that came into their room, according to them, demanding money and armed with a knife. I don't think the state's got a very strong case. I'll go out on a limb. I don't think Hapgood is guilty. And it'd be a cold day in you know where before I would go along with having my husband extradited back to Anguilla for a little home cooking barbecue by a local jury. Uh-uh. N-O. I don't know. I agree with you,
Starting point is 00:17:54 Nancy. This is Chris. I've seen a lot of kind of combinations like this before, but the head injuries, neck injuries, positional asphyxia with his wife and kids there, that all sounds like a struggle that he managed to get control over the guy. And unfortunately, the guy died. But that's really what it sounds like, a knockdown, drag out fight. One thing we didn't talk about is that the security guard warned the other staff members not to intervene in the fight because his wife was filming the incident. I'm with you guys. I don't, I don't, I'm never a big believer in, in, in motive. You don't have to prove it for most statutes, but
Starting point is 00:18:34 I, I'm struggling with what could possibly be the motive of this guy with his wife and two kids in the room to, you know, to brutally attack this guy on unprovoked, you know, so what, you know, the motive has been proffered that, you know, it was a robbery. That's understandable. But the opposite motive of why this guy would just unsolicitedly call this guy to his room, lure him to a room so he could beat him to death in front of his wife and kids. That just doesn't seem like a believable motive. Yeah, I agree. Chris, one thing we're going to have to look at is allegedly the guy came to the room to fix a broken sink.
Starting point is 00:19:07 Was there a complaint for a broken sink? Was he really dispatched for that reason? There's so many more facts, and I just do not trust any foreign government to give a U.S. citizen a fair trial. I just, sorry, I just don't trust them. I think Jussie Smollett should come clear because the truth will set him free. Bold words from the attorney of Abel and Ola Osundaro, brothers who spent hours talking to prosecutors in a grand jury.
Starting point is 00:19:41 They are the same men police say are in this surveillance photo, and it's evidence Jussie Smollett told Robin Roberts shows his attackers. THEM. THE MASSACRE OF THE POLICE OFFICER IS A RECENT CRIME. THE POLICE OFFICER IS A RECENT CRIME. THE PROSECUTORS IN A GRAND JURY. THEY ARE THE SAME MEN POLICE SAY ARE IN THIS SURVEILLANCE PHOTO.
Starting point is 00:19:52 IT'S EVIDENCE JUSSIE SMOLLETT TOLD ROBIN ROBERTS SHOWS HIS ATTACKERS. I DON'T HAVE ANY DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THAT'S THEM. THE EMPIRE ACTOR
Starting point is 00:20:02 WHO TOLD POLICE TWO MASS MEN BEAT HIM, YELLING RACIAL AND HOMOPHOBIC SLURS IN CHICAGO'S STREETING SMOLLETT FACES ONE FELONY COUNT OF DISORDERLY CONDUCT STEMMING FROM FILING A FALSE POLICE REPORT. I THINK THAT JESSE'S CONSCIENCE IS PROBABLY NOT LETTING HIM SLEEP RIGHT NOW
Starting point is 00:20:11 SO I THINK HE SHOULD UNLOAD THAT CONSCIENCE AND JUST COME OUT AND TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. SMOLLETT'S LAWYERS FIRED BACK RELEASING A STATEMENT SAYING QUOTE LIKE ANY OTHER CITIZEN MR. SMOLLETT
Starting point is 00:20:19 ENJOYS THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CRIME. THE COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SAYING SMOLLETT FACES ONE FELONY COUNT OF DISORDERLY CONDUCT STEMMING FROM FILING A FALSE POLICE REPORT. I THINK THAT JESSE'S CONSCIENCE IS PROBABLY NOT until the American people would actually have one. Smollett's lawyers fired back, releasing a statement saying, quote, like any other citizen, Mr. Smollett enjoys the presumption of innocence. Given the circumstances, we intend to conduct a thorough investigation and to mount an aggressive defense.
Starting point is 00:20:35 Mm-hmm. That's Robbie Glass at Chicago ABC7. Jesse Smollett, as you know, the disgraced actor, the star on the hit show Empire, he's in a whole heap of trouble after he stages an alleged fake hoax hate crime on himself. Now, all of his charges have seemingly been dropped. The prosecutor has been put under subpoena by a sitting judge wanting to know why the charges were dropped. Not only that, the two brothers, the Osedaro brothers, have in the last hours filed a lawsuit against the Empire actors' lawyers, including Mark Geragos,
Starting point is 00:21:23 because of the way they claim they, the brothers, have been portrayed in this whole thing. Now that's a bombshell for many reasons. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. At this hour, the lead prosecutor, Kim Fox, has been ordered to appear in court over the Jussie Smollett scandal, the judge slapping the prosecutor with a subpoena over the way she handled the Smollett case after she drops all 16 charges against the Hollywood star. Joining me, all-star panel, Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent, Dr. William July, psychologist, Dr. Chris Sperry, medical examiner, and John Lindley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. John, what is happening? Well, where to begin? We'll begin with Kim Fox,
Starting point is 00:22:10 Chicago's top prosecutor that you just mentioned. She has been subpoenaed to appear at a court hearing regarding her handling of the Jussie Smollett attack. I put that in air quotes. The state's attorney was hit with the subpoena by a retired appellate judge who's seeking the appointment of a special prosecutor to look into how Kim dealt with this super controversial case. Well, let's just start at the beginning. I want to talk about the actual case itself. Jesse Smollett, the Empire star, had been out of town. He flies home to Chicago, gets to his penthouse apartment. Around two o'clock, according to him, in sub-zero temperatures,
Starting point is 00:22:53 Smollett decides he's got the thungries. Okay. He puts on his coat and goes out again, 2 a.m. sub-zero temperatures in Chicago that night to go to Subway. Okay, it's his theory, Smollett, that someone had been sending him hate mail and death threats to work, and that these same nefarious ne'er-do-wells were waiting for him at 2 a.m. near the Subway sandwich shop, knowing, I guess, he was going to have a Subway attack. He had to have a Subway sandwich. Now, how they knew that, I do not know. And why they agreed to brave sub-zero temperatures to beat up Jussie Smollett. Don't know that either. But video surveillance doesn't show the actual attack, but it does show the two Osundara brothers leaving the attack. And Smollett says on national TV to our friend Robin Roberts that they are his attackers. Well, it turns out they're also his friends,
Starting point is 00:24:00 that he has been paying for various roles, like as a trainer. Take a listen to George Stephanopoulos on GMA. He knew it was the brothers, didn't he? He did not. The attackers were masked. He only saw one of them. One of them approached him from behind, and he was wearing a mask. And so he did not identify them. He initially had a really hard time believing that they could be involved because he knew one of them. And we can only speculate as to motivation. As you know, the police say they have phone records of him talking to the brothers an hour before the attack. Absolutely. An hour after the attack and while they're in Africa. Not an hour after the attack.
Starting point is 00:24:41 That's what they said. That's completely false. And I've seen the phone records and they've been produced and one thing I do also want to put out there you're saying he did talk to the brother he absolutely talked to them because he had just hired the one brother to train him for his upcoming music video for training and nutrition which the the brothers have now confirmed that that's actually what the check was for and this is again one of them the misstatements out there that Eddie Johnson went and held this press conference and said that the check was for the staged attack.
Starting point is 00:25:06 Their lawyer did tell me that. But you're saying he talked to them an hour before the attack. Absolutely. But he didn't know that was them that attacked them. Absolutely. And the reason he talked to them was there were, if you look at the text messages leading up to the night of the incident, there's ample text about training and nutrition. And they were supposed to actually train that night.
Starting point is 00:25:22 Jesse was flying in from New York and his flight was delayed for four hours. So he was constantly texting and communicating about their planned training session. They were supposed to train that night as well as the next morning. And he eventually texted him when he landed and said now it was way too late. And he texted him and let him know that he landed late. They actually spoke by phone as well. And so he absolutely knew that he was on his way home. And if the brothers are saying that he helped them stage this attack, you're saying the brothers are lying? Absolutely. They're not telling the truth? No. Okay, that's our friend George Stephanopoulos at GMA speaking to one of Smollett's lawyers, Tina Giandian. So he's texting
Starting point is 00:26:02 with the brothers just before they attack him. How did they know to be there at 2 a.m. outside the Subway sandwich shop? Okay. And also, what about those letters? The crazy death threats he was getting at work. Now, hold on just a moment. I want you to hear our friend Nick Smith at Fox 5 regarding what the brothers say. The Jussie Smollett case is back in the headlines, this time because the actor's legal team is facing a lawsuit. Fox 5's Nick Smith joins us live from the newsroom with these latest developments. This is a story that just does not end. Blake, so many twists and turns. Now, the latest twist involves the two brothers who say they were paid to help Smollett stage an attack against him.
Starting point is 00:26:44 Tonight, those personal trainers are suing Smollett's lawyers for defamation. The two brothers saying they're filing the lawsuit because Smollett's attorneys lied to the media and tried to make it appear that they were the culprits in a real homophobic and racist attack. Now, the suit doubles down saying the brothers never knew Smollett would go to the police because he was simply staging the attack for social media. They were asked to do something by a friend who they trusted. And at the end of the day, that friend betrayed their trust. They realized that it was wrong. They've apologized for it. And they've expressed more than once that they are tremendously regretful for the role that they played in it. But make no mistake, they had no role in calling
Starting point is 00:27:26 the police and they had no role in defrauding the police department. The brothers say as a result of the alleged defamation, they suffered extreme emotional distress, humiliation, anxiety and damages to current and prospective business relations. Now TMZ reports that the brothers have also had a tough time finding work, both as actors and personal trainers, in the wake of the scandal. Now, one detail that has many scratching their heads tonight, Blake, the fact that these brothers did not sue Jussie Smollett. Instead, they're targeting his legal team. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Starting point is 00:28:13 You know, Dr. Sperry, I would come in from one trial, one jury trial, very often with you as a witness, to my office and find typically 150 brand new felonies for me to start working on. I assume it was the same way at the medical examiner's office? Oh, yes. Yes. When one case ends, five more appear. Oh, yes.
Starting point is 00:28:35 And what is driving me so crazy about this, Dr. Sperry, is that by Smollett telling cops he was the victim of a hate crime because he was gay and African-American. Dozens of detectives were working that case night and day. It was a high-profile hate crime. And that takes police and detectives away from real crimes, real victims who were looking for answers, Dr. Sperry. Absolutely. There's only so many police, and if they're overburdened or if they're charged with going after something like this where it's chasing ghosts, they expend thousands of man hours in doing that. It's the same way with medical examiners.
Starting point is 00:29:20 Sometimes we're told we have to go down a certain path because a certain set of circumstances occurred. When it never did, we waste a lot of time. I want to go to Dr. William July, psychologist. What do you make of the fact that the brothers are suing? Smollett has never sued, saying, hey, all these claims were fake. It's hurt my reputation. I demand justice.
Starting point is 00:29:44 The brothers are the ones saying you lied about me, not Smollett. Yeah, it sounds like the story is unraveling and people are running for cover, which is what we see in situations like this. These guys, for whatever reason, are now saying, hey, we've had enough and now we're going to tell our side of the story before we get dropped into Greece, thrown under the bus. Yeah, and I think the one that's demanding the truth come out is the one who's not afraid of the truth, and that would be the Osidaro brothers. You know, to Dr. Chris Sperry, Smollett's injuries,
Starting point is 00:30:17 I'm looking at them immediately after the alleged hate crime outside his Chicago apartment. He has one cut underneath his right eye. And other than that one laceration, he was in pretty good shape, even smirking during a FaceTime conversation. Bottom line, he wasn't hurt, Dr. Sperry. No. Nancy, the thought I had when I saw those photographs was that I was underwhelmed. In other words, I did not see, this is not the evidence of a beating.
Starting point is 00:30:53 In fact, I can tell you many times over my career, I have seen what are called factitious or self-inflicted injuries that are done in order to try to implicate the involvement of another person, and usually someone specifically. But just to show that to try to gain or fool the police, basically, into thinking that this person has been beaten or assaulted when, in fact, the injuries are self-inflicted. And I think that is exactly what happened here.
Starting point is 00:31:20 You know, to John Limley, correct me if I'm wrong, but Smollett says that his unknown assailants beat him up and put a rope around his neck because he's African-American and he's gay. All right. When he gets home, he's not the one that even calls. He doesn't even call 911. His manager, he's on the phone with his manager, and the manager gets police. And when the cops get there, however many minutes later, he's just sitting there with a rope still hanging around his neck. I mean, the first thing I would do was get a noose from around my neck, John Limley. All of this was just a mere matter of weeks after a suspicious envelope arrived purportedly for jesse smollett at the studios
Starting point is 00:32:08 uh chicago cinespace studios have you have you seen the hey have you seen the death threat it's like somebody's playing hangman the the letter game where you come up with the word and every time the person wrongly guesses a letter you put a hangman you put his head then you put his torso it looked like a little hangman uh and then a gun out in the distance with a bullet like a round ball going through the air that's the hate mail and now this so bottom line john limley what's happening with the prosecutor i mean number one she was recused off the case because she had had contacts with Smollett's family, okay, with the alleged victim's family, the Empire Star's family, talking about lenient treatment for him before anything even happened in the case.
Starting point is 00:32:58 Then, after she's recused or taken off the case, she continues texting about how she wants the charges dropped on Smollett. I mean, do I have it right? What's happening with her? Why has she been subpoenaed to appear before a judge? Her conversation continues maybe one-sidedly. She's been taken off the case. She's been harshly criticized ever since her office dismissed all 16 counts against Smollett over this alleged attack. And this retired judge reportedly wrote that Fox's handling of the case was plagued with all sorts of irregularities and that Fox misled the public into believing that Smollett's case was handled like any other prosecution and without influence. John Lindley, isn't it true the judge is curious why another case where a woman was charged with false report like Smollett did is getting a very different treatment than the Hollywood star? Nancy, that's exactly what happened. A Cook County judge has slammed Cook County State's attorney Kim Fox for prosecuting a woman for filing a false police report while letting Smollett off the hook, despite the woman's case being, quote, a lot less egregious than Smollett's. Cook County Judge Mark Martin presided over the case of 21-year-old Candace Clark, who's facing a single felony count of making a false police
Starting point is 00:34:26 report. Transcripts show Martin slammed prosecutors and said, and again I quote here, I'd like to know why Ms. Clark is being treated differently than Jussie Smollett. It's a disorderly conduct case, a lot less egregious than Mr. Smollett's case. I have a problem with it. And it's very interesting what Candace Clark herself added, saying, I'm not Jussie Smollett's case. I have a problem with it. And it's very interesting what Candace Clark herself added, saying, I'm not Jussie Smollett. I wish I was, but it's okay. I'll get my justice. Take a listen to the Chicago police chief as he responds. As I look out into the crowd, I just wish that the families of gun violence in this city got this much attention, because that's who really deserves the amount of attention that we're giving to this particular incident.
Starting point is 00:35:09 So this morning I come to you not only as the superintendent of the Chicago Police Department, but also as a black man who spent his entire life living in the city of Chicago. I know the racial divide that exists here. I know how hard it's been for our city and our nation to come together. And I also know the disparities and I know the history. This announcement today recognizes that Empire actor Jussie Smollett took advantage of the pain and anger of racism to promote his career. I'm left hanging my head and asking why, why would anyone, especially an African American man use the symbolism of a noose to make false accusations?
Starting point is 00:35:59 How could someone look at the hatred and suffering associated with that symbol and see an opportunity to manipulate that symbol to further his own public profile. How can an individual who's been embraced by the city of Chicago turn around and slap everyone in this city in the face by making these false claims. Bogus police reports cause real harm. They do harm to every legitimate victim who's in need of support by police and investigators as well as the citizens of this city. We wait as justice unfolds.
Starting point is 00:36:37 Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.