Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - US MARSHALS MANHUNT: COACH TRAVIS TURNER VANISHES IN MOUNTAINS W/GUN

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The U.S. Marshals' manhunt, an urgent update from the Marshals. Coach Travis Turner, the famed high school football coach, vanishes into rugged terrain, the mountains with a gun. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Starting point is 00:00:28 I want to thank you for being with us. Union High School in Big Stone Gap, Virginia, faces turmoil as head coach Travis Turner mysteriously vanishes days before their undefeated football team heads to the playoffs. Why did he say that, that the coach vanishes just before the big football playoff? Correction. The coach vanished into the woods, we believe, carrying a gun. according to a witness, as L.E. law enforcement was on their way to his house to talk to him about child porn and about claims he solicited a child for sex over his computer. You think he vanished into the woods with a gun in a sweatsuit because of the upcoming football game? I don't think so. Listen.

Starting point is 00:01:31 Law enforcement headed to the family home to interview Turner. On the way, investigators are informed Turner is no longer home. When officers arrived, they're told Turner was last seen going into a wooded area near his home, wearing a gray sweatshirt and gray sweatpants. Joining me an all-star panel, including a rep from the U.S. Marshals Office, who traveled the world looking for fugitives as well as an expert in nationwide men. hunts. But first to Samantha Allen, joining us, multimedia journalist from WCYB. On Insta, you can find her at Sam Allen Sports. Samantha, what the hey. Why is every banner that I read, and you can go ahead

Starting point is 00:02:16 and plead guilty right now, girl, about the football, the football game, the undefeated season. Oh, he's such a great football coach. Oh, he's such a great quarterback when he played football. football, football. Hey, I like football just like everybody else. But you know what? I hate more than I like football? I hate child molesters. And I hate people that download child porn on their computer. All right? I tried to look this guy up last night and I put in football coach child porn. And I got all kind of warnings. Like I was trying to download child porn. I immediately just turned off the computer. So what happens, Samantha?

Starting point is 00:02:53 All right. Well, you know, Virginia is a very tight-knit community. already. So football is already on top of everyone's mind. This team has gone undefeated. He already is a all-star player. Put her up. Samantha. What did I just say? I said, why is everybody talking about football? When this guy, this trusted football coach, is allegedly downloading childborn on his computer probably at school. And what did you do? You know what? I don't trust you anymore. Dr. Bethany, what does she just do after I said, why are we talking about football, the football record, the football undefeated, the football, the football, and what does she just do?

Starting point is 00:03:42 She talked about football, and what she didn't talk about was the victims, and that is what should be front and center. I looked it up to last night, Nancy, it's all about football. The community children are always underrepresented in our judicial system, and in terms of protection. And I keep thinking about who was he soliciting? Was it somebody in the school? What about the child porn on his computer? Was he sharing photos with other child molesters? Is he a part of a child molesting ring where all these images are shared back and forth? And because of that, that is really the part of the story that should be front and center because victims could be right in that

Starting point is 00:04:20 community. If that community is so tight-knit, they're going to be concerned, hopefully, about the children more than about football. Well, you know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, now I'm going to make a very brief cameo appearance as a defense attorney. And I'm going to defend Samantha Allen after I just accused her. Samantha, I think part of the shock of these charges, child porn and soliciting a child, a minor for sex over the computer, I think part of the reason everybody is so shocked. shocked is because what you just said, because right, if it's true, if the allegations are true, this guy has been right under our noses with who else, thousands and thousands of children,

Starting point is 00:05:07 and he has been famous. He is famous. He has been lauded. He's a hero in the school and the community. His son played football under him and is now on the coaching staff with him. And I think part of this is the fact that all this time when people have been sending their children to learn football sports with him. He's been downloading child porn, so I'm going to defend you just for a minute there, and I'm going to rewind. Samantha Allen joining us, multimedia journalist, WCYB. What's happening?

Starting point is 00:05:44 The community is very tight-knit, so they're not wanting to kind of put someone that's so familiar with them on blast until they have all the facts. And that's kind of the same thing that we're dealing with as reporters. in this region is trying to get people to talk. No one wants to talk to us. They want to defend him. And that's being a big issue. A lot of us are questioning,

Starting point is 00:06:05 why are you trying to defend him and why is it being kept so hush? And a lot of the, like I went to the football. You're right, Samantha. I mean, it's bedrock in our justice system that this coach, Travis Turner, is innocent. As we're talking tonight, he's innocent. He is presumed innocent under the law.

Starting point is 00:06:29 But that's not the end of that sentence. Is it Mark Tate, high-profile trial lawyer with the Tate group out of Savannah, who shot to fame across the nation during the Alex Murdoch double murder trial? He defended him to the very end on every news outlet there was. Mark Tate, that's not the end of the presumption of innocence jury charge. is it? That charge says the defendant is presumed innocent unless and until the state pierces that presumption of innocence with evidence to prove guilt. That's the rest of that sentence that defense attorneys like to conveniently forget. Well, I mean, you're right. The state has the

Starting point is 00:07:17 burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You know, I think the issue here, and when we talk about that community, and I do have some familiarity with that area, is that no community that I've ever experienced wants to really understand that there is this kind of a shocking thing going on right there. I've seen it in the Catholic sex abuse cases, boy scouts, loved pediatricians, rabbis, organizations where you would never expect there to be something like this because you trust the person so much. And so it shocks the community. And I believe that when they have that type of shock, there is a great burden to overcome to convince them that, yeah, this person that you trusted was not worthy of your

Starting point is 00:08:03 trust. And so I hope they're able to find him. I think wandering off into the woods, you know, with the firearm sort of bodes poorly for him, obviously, because he's wandering around the Appalachian Mountains and it gets to be about 29 degrees at night. And he's probably got some survival skills. Who knows? But I think it's going to be hard to find him. And I think that once they get him, that community is going to have to be convinced that he did the things for which he was sought when they first went to pick him up on November 24 or announced that's why they were looking for him on November 24. Hold on just a moment, Mark Tate. You do know that a search is happening right now for this guy. You don't think they brought out tracker dogs, sent dogs,

Starting point is 00:08:50 massive search for him. There's an incredible search going on. I wonder, did he even go into that rugged train? I know he goes out in the elements without coats because I got video of him wearing shorts in the snow. And that is a very important question. To Samantha Allen joining us, WCYB on the case from the very beginning, you know, you got to take all your witnesses with a box of salt, not a pinch, a box. Who said they saw this coach, Travis Turner, going into a heavily wooded area and sweatshirt,

Starting point is 00:09:28 sweatshapants, and a gun? Who said that to start with? How do I know that's where he really went? We actually really don't even know if that is 100% true. It was only released to us from the Virginia State Police, the firearm. That was only told to us from the family's attorney, Adrian Collin. So we don't 100%. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Samantha. Sam, Sam.

Starting point is 00:09:53 What did you say about the family lawyer? It came from the family lawyer? The family lawyer is the only person that has officially announced that he walked into the woods with a firearm. The Virginia State Police did not really stop. Whoa. Samantha, you just gave me some very vital information. Brian Fitzgibbons, did you hear that? So the only witness that sees him going into the woods with a sweatpants, sweatshirt, sweatpants, gun is somebody from within the family, because that's a family lawyer.

Starting point is 00:10:27 I'm extrapolating here. Brian Fitzgibbon's Director Operations, USPA nationwide security, leading teams of investigators across the world trying to find missing people. Brian, consider the source. so the police are on the way they've already fight one person has been either laid off or fired at the school in connection with this and I'm dying to find out who that is and what their connection is and now they're on the way to talk to him about it obviously about the child porn and he walks into the woods yet an incredible an intense search goes on and nobody can find him in the woods did he really even go into the woods? That's certainly a big question, right? Because when the source is coming from the family attorney and that this has not been confirmed by law enforcement, it's difficult to confirm that he did do that. And you're going to see the resources tied up to search this dense terrain with steep

Starting point is 00:11:32 ravines, tons of trees, caves, rivers, you name it. This is very difficult, a difficult search to conduct. You know, Brian Fitzgibbons, I'm very curious about the efforts being made to find him. I don't doubt that they are being made. But when you bring out canines, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, drones, helicopters, shoulder to shoulder, and you can't find him, that's concerning. It suggests he didn't go that way. But back to what happened. Listen. Turner's disappearance days before his team's playoff game is now even more shocking. The coach is wanted on five counts of possessing child pornography, five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor. Additional charges pending. Back to Samantha Allen, joining us, WCYB. Explain to me what the

Starting point is 00:12:26 charges are exactly. So the charges are the five counts of child pornography and five counts of soliciting a minor using a computer. Those are the only charges that have been announced to us. They say pending, there's charges pending according to the Virginia State Police, but we do not know what that entails. And last we heard is that they're having that $5,000 award from the U.S. Marshal

Starting point is 00:12:52 if someone finds him. Irv Brandt joining us now, a former senior inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service International Investigations Branch. He has traveled all around the world looking for fugitives. And he is now the author of

Starting point is 00:13:08 a hit series on Amazon Jack Solo Mysteries. The last one, Going Solo, the Gospel of Luke. Oh, I can't wait to read that one. Irv Brandt, I'm very curious about the search for him and the likelihood that he has stayed within the area. Also, let me just kick it off with you about this reward. There is an urgent update from the U.S. Marshal Service. They are now offering a $5,000. reward for information leading to the arrest of the former undefeated football high school coach Travis Turner. Now they've piled on.

Starting point is 00:13:56 They're offering a $5,000 reward. Do you believe rewards work, Irv Brandt? Nancy, yes, rewards do work. That's why the United States Marshal Service does it. people are more apt to give information if they think they're going to be rewarded for the information. I've worked cases for decades, and rewards were an integral part of those cases. And when the Marshal Service gets involved in a case like this, they don't get involved until the criminal charges are announced that warrants have been issued. They don't help

Starting point is 00:14:40 look for a suspect they look for fugitives and this man's a fugitive now and that's why the martial service is involved in an offer and a reward guys you were looking at

Starting point is 00:14:56 coach Travis Turner undefeated okay I will give in Samantha Allen tell me about his football record and why he is so notorious and famed in the area

Starting point is 00:15:11 for all of those wins and go ahead and tell me about his own football career. I mean, his father was a football star there at Appalachia High School. Then we have him, who's also a football star

Starting point is 00:15:25 at Appalachia High School. And then he starts coaching Union. His son's a football star at Union High School. And now he's coaching an undefeated team and they're making it out to region championships. And they have gone

Starting point is 00:15:37 with no losses. So now it's a big deal within the community of this guy that's so well known with his football career, with his dad being a football star and his son, and now he's leading this team into a championship, but then he just runs away. That's what makes this such a big deal within the community, is that someone that's so well known and so, like, familiar with everyone. And everyone grew up, everyone I've talked to ever when I go out there and I do my interviews, they know him, they know his father, they went to school with him, they went to school with

Starting point is 00:16:07 his dad. Everyone knows everyone there. And no one knew that this was happening. So like you said, this was crazy that this was just right underneath everyone's noses and no one wants to believe it. Travis Turner is a former high school football star quarterback, capturing three state titles as a player in the mid-90s. Now, the head football coach at Union High, Wise County, Virginia since 2011. And this year, the team is undefeated heading into state playoffs. Travis and Leslie Turner married 2001 and have three children, sons, Bailey, 23, and Graden, 20, and daughter Brinley, 11. Bailey played quarterback and is currently a physical education teacher at the school and serves on the football coaching staff. Graydon is in the Army, and Brindley is in the sixth grade.

Starting point is 00:16:50 Take a listen to Robin Lawson from VSP, Virginia State Police. The Virginia State Police has obtained 10 warrants for missing high school football coach Travis L. Turner, 46 of Appalach. Turner is wanted on five counts of child pornography and five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor. The investigation is ongoing and additional charges are pending. Let me drink this in. Joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave, okay, hold on. Coach Turner, Travis Turner, former high school football star quarterback.

Starting point is 00:17:34 capturing three state titles. Now the head football coach, Union High, that's Wise County, Virginia. He's been there since 2011. Right now his team is undefeated and heading to state playoffs. His son is a football star. His father is a football star.

Starting point is 00:17:59 And now his son is a PE teacher and is a football coach with him. Do I have that all right, Dave Mack? What more can you tell me? Well, Nancy, you have everything exactly right. The frustrating part of all of this, Nancy, is what you started with at the beginning of the show, talking about football, because, you know, in reality, this is another teacher that is sexually abusing or attempting to sexually abuse children that are in their charge. We don't know the ages of the children he's accused of possessing pictures of or attempting to contact other than knowing they're minors. But Nancy, we do shows all the time

Starting point is 00:18:43 about teacher involved with students. Do we not have a class at the beginning of a year telling all the teachers and coaches don't touch the kids? So this is a dynasty and it goes way far back and it's going into the future. His father football star, His son, football star, on the coaching staff at the high school. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. Let me introduce her properly. We're now in psychoanalyst out of the L.A. jurisdiction.

Starting point is 00:19:19 You can see her now on Peacock. She is an author of Deal Breakers, which is on Amazon. You can find her at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com. come, Dr. Bethany, this is going to be a hard nut to crack. You know why? Because when you pull jurors in for an ultimate jury trial, this guy, either they're going to know him personally or they're going to know his wife, who's very active in the football community and in the community at large. His sons, he's also got a daughter who's in high school right now, middle school. His father, they have an excellent reputation in the community, and it's going to be very

Starting point is 00:20:01 difficult for them to believe this guy did anything of the sort. They would probably fall for some with Zainty conspiracy theory like the child porn was planted on his computer. I mean, I could see somebody actually believing that. I agree with you, Nancy. The whole community is probably still in denial at this point, and we saw this with Jerry Sandusky, Larry Nassar, with the Catholic priests, is that older white males typically are protected when child pornography charges are brought against them. It is just so typical. But Nancy, think about the broader story here. Who was this guy soliciting? Was it some under-rate minor at the school there? Did that minor go to their parents? Did the parents then pull on that thread? Go to the administration.

Starting point is 00:20:53 Were there complaints brought to the administration about Coach Travis, but those complaints went ignored? We're going to learn so much about this. Are there a group of child predators in that community or in that state who are sharing images back and forth? We saw, you know, with Jerry Sandusky, Nancy, once the charges were brought against him, remember all the kids he coached started coming out.

Starting point is 00:21:23 of the woodwork and saying, oh yeah, you know, he asked me to take a shower with him and I thought was kind of strange, but then I just decided, you know, just to ignore it because he was my coach and I wanted to play on the team. Who is going to come forward in this case? My hope is that every parent of a child in that school is going to sit down with their kid and ask about their interactions with this coach so they can determine if their child has been a victim and give them the appropriate support they need. To Mark Tate, joining us high-profile defense lawyer with the Tate Law Group, Mark Tate, this is a defense attorney's dream come true to be defending a veteran football coach

Starting point is 00:22:09 who has touched the lives of thousands of students, of thousands of families in a good way, his father the same, his son the same, his wife the same. I mean, they're going to walk into this courtroom with basically a halo, a halo over their heads. We faced this kind of problem when we were pursuing the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts and absolutely juries and judges and the community, especially in, you know, large Catholic communities or a large community that has a lot of people involved in scouting. You have a definite bias in favor of what we think is the perpetrator and against accusers. They simply, people simply don't want to believe that this kind of thing could happen in their own community to people they trust.

Starting point is 00:22:58 And so a defense lawyer can certainly use that to his or her advantage in presenting their defense to this case. And so I think the prosecutors will be armed with fantastic research and development of the charges against him. And I think that there's experience in doing it. And I think that I think that that bias is something to be aware of. But I think they can overcome it given this situation because it's equally hard as they support him. They can turn hard against him when they start to see facts that are unrefutable. As the team heads into playoffs without their leader, tension rises in Wise County. The school district suspends an employee with pay sparking speculation that the missing coach Travis Turner is involved.

Starting point is 00:23:49 So to Samantha Allen joining us, WCYB, the other individual at the high school was only suspended with pay? Yes, it's unconfirmed if that was exactly Turner. Of course, you can make a speculation and decide for yourself that the employee that was put on paid leave is Travis Turner, but it still has been yet to be confirmed for the VSP. so the Virginia State Police have yet to confirm if that is exactly the employee that was put on leave. Dave Mack, crime stories, I understood that one employee

Starting point is 00:24:29 was put on leave and they were going to interrogate Coach Turner when he disappeared, but she's right, that could be one in the same, right? I mean, you don't get fired for claims you have child porn

Starting point is 00:24:45 on your computer, you just get suspended with pay? Well, you've got an investigation going. That's the whole point. I believe that what we're talking about is the same person. The investigators were headed to his house to talk to him. They didn't have an arrest warrant or anything for him at the time. They were merely going to investigate the allegations that they had been, that they'd heard about.

Starting point is 00:25:09 And while they were on the way, that's when we don't know. See, we don't know, Nancy. Did somebody call him and say, coach run? You and the Disney princesses can keep singing that. I'm not sure that's altogether. Fact sounds like fiction. Mark Tate, please. They're on their way in their patrol car to his house to talk to him about child porn claims.

Starting point is 00:25:36 H-E-L-L-N-O. They were going to arrest him. Why are we pretending? Oh, they're going to arrest him. I think that's exactly right. And who knows if he got the tip off. And I think the important thing to recall, and I'm certainly not criticizing for this, but there's a family lawyer who represents them who's already in play. And I know that that lawyer wouldn't condone in any way someone becoming a fugitive, but we know that when the police get there, this family lawyer, should he be involved at that point, is going to tell, you know, the coach not to be talking.

Starting point is 00:26:13 And so, you know, if he's, if he's afraid to do that, thinking he's going to get arrested either way, which he is, he's going to head to the woods. Mark Tate, earlier you said maybe he was tipped off. Oh, okay. So while Ellie law enforcement, Virginia State Police are on their way, 90 MPH, to his place to talk to him, he suddenly goes on a solo walk into the woods with a gun. yes, he was tipped off. They're coming to get you. Now, who could have done that? Oh, somebody within the police force.

Starting point is 00:26:51 Could it have been someone he coached that played on his team? That bears an investigation right there. How did he know? It could be obviously anybody who has sufficient knowledge about it, absolutely. Well, yeah, but they had to be within the police department because they had to know cops were on the way

Starting point is 00:27:09 to talk to him, as Samantha. Alan said. Samantha, also, we have searched and searched for the actual charges, the verbatim charges. I was looking, hoping to find the age of the alleged victims in this case, couldn't find them. And I believe that is because there has not been a grand jury proceeding charging him. There is not a formal indictment. Is that correct? Yes, no. Yes, correct. There's not a formal indictment. So when we say there are five charges of child porn and five charges regarding soliciting a minor on a computer for sex, those are police charges. For instance, you know, Samantha Allen, you and I get in a bar fight, I crack you on the head with the bottle. First of all,

Starting point is 00:28:01 police arrest me on charges of aggravated assault with a broken bottle. That's the first thing. Then it goes to a grand jury where they hear evidence and they issue a formal indictment. So the charges we're talking about tonight are police charges. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. It's the investigation that's still ongoing. Now, I want to talk to you about a subtle but critical discrepancy. We are now being told through the family lawyer that Turner, excuse me, undefeated football coach Travis Turner goes into the woods a sweatsuit and a gun. But isn't it true?

Starting point is 00:28:41 On the police report, there was no mention of a gun. Yes, so the police report just says gray sweatshirt, gray sweatpants, and glasses. And then we hear throughout rumors throughout the whole entire week that he was carrying a firearm

Starting point is 00:28:58 and he went into the wood. Then we get a statement from the attorney that was released saying, nothing about what he was wearing. Just yes, he walked into the woods with a firearm. The firearm is undisclosed. We don't know what he walked in with or who saw him. That is not told to us. We have no clue who saw him walk into the woods or where they got that information. And we've asked the attorney for clarification and he's yet to give it to us.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Brian Fitzgibbens, don't you think that that is a critical fact that was not in the police report? Why was it not in the police report? I don't believe it's because police forgot. I don't believe they were told about the gun at the get-go? Yeah, that certainly would be the case because, you know, all too often, especially when you're searching for a fugitive, police are going to release information that somebody is expected to be armed, you know, so the public is aware of that. So I would think that if it were included to police on the outset, that that would have been initially reported by police.

Starting point is 00:30:04 I mean, Irv Brandt, you're the former senior inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations for Pete's sake. Isn't that an important fact that you would want the public to know at the very beginning? Don't approach this guy. He's armed? Yes, Nancy. That's exactly right. Determining the suspect's potential for violence and public safety is foremost in law enforcement efforts

Starting point is 00:30:34 in conducting a fugitive investigation. And we always warn the public not to approach a fugitive. I mean, even if there is no indication of a firearm, it's safer to assume that someone has access to a firearm. And we don't want the general public to endanger their lives while trying to assist law enforcement. The United States Marshal Service joins the hunt for Turner, still listed as a missing person having last been seen November 20. The Marshal Service is offering a reward of up to $5,000. Tips can be reported to 911, the Virginia State Police, the United States Marshal Service, 1877 wanted to, or online.

Starting point is 00:31:20 U.S. Marshals.gov forward slash tips. Authority said he may be armed, so caution is advised. Travis Turner's biggest fan and supporter is his wife Leslie. Her Facebook page is a place where Union High football fans gather online to get updates on the team. Leslie regularly encourages the team on her page, including one post five days before Turner disappeared. Game day. Good luck to my guys today and to all of unions football team and coaches. After Turner vanishes, Leslie Post, I just wanted to get on here for a second to clear up something as of right now 10.25 p.m. on Friday night, Travis is missing.

Starting point is 00:31:58 And that's all we know. We love him and need him here with us. Thank you to everyone who has reached out with love and support. means more than you know. Just keep praying that he comes home. The post was deleted a short time later. The mom, his wife, Leslie, the mother of his three children, posting about Turner vanishing, but then she deletes that and says this. As the search for Travis Turner continues, wife Leslie shuts down her social media and has only made one public comment saying, none of that is true he's a good dad and a good husband and we want him home that's it i want to talk about the search the ongoing search for football coach the undefeated coach Travis turner but first

Starting point is 00:32:44 i want to understand the charges five counts of child porn five counts using computer to solicit a minor first of all he has been referred to as the purve coach the pedo coach but to Dr. Bethany Marshall, explain to me the desire a guy in his position working with children would have to see children being abused, molested, or children naked. Well, he's going to have a very specific offending pattern, which will come out in the grand jury and when we learn more about this story. But usually pedophiles, if the allegations are true, generally like prepubescent children. And when the children turn 13 or 14, they age out, they're no longer desirable, or they like to have power over minors.

Starting point is 00:33:40 And then that's a part of the offending pattern, imagining that a 14, 15, or 16 year old girl or boy could be a boyfriend or a girlfriend. But what happens with these perpetrators is that they can only become sexually aroused through relationships with children, right? So they want to see children naked. They want to see children maybe in the showers, in the locker room. They want to pass images around. And what happens is they need more and more to stimulate their arousal. So the images become more and more sensationalized. So they might start out just with a picture of a baby or a picture of a minor.

Starting point is 00:34:19 And then they want to see a minor having sex with another minor. And then it just sort of escalates from there. I think probably what happened. In this case, similar, like let's say Robert Morris, who was a pastor, he founded Gateway Church. He molested children for years, okay? He predated on minors, and all the deacons in the church surrounded him and protected him.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And it took one girl that he molested in the 80s, who came out last year, wrote a letter and exposed him, and she got threats from the deacons in the church because she wanted to expose him, but she was brave. She went forward. She did expose him, and now he's left the church and, you know, has been brought up on charges and all of that. Yeah, I'm very curious, Bethany.

Starting point is 00:35:06 As to whether this inclination starts early on, it's very difficult when you have a famous, even just locally famous icon charged in a case like this. And let me refer everyone to the hit reality series, 19 kids and counting. Remember the Dugger family that had, I think it ended up with like 20 children? Okay, listen to this. Our son Josh came to us on his own and he was crying and he had just turned 14 and he said that he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters. He said he was just curious about girls and he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping. He didn't even know he had done it. None of the victims were aware of what happened until Joshua confessed.

Starting point is 00:36:01 It wasn't like we were keeping a secret afraid or something. It was we didn't know until Josh explained to my parents. That from the Kelly file. Now, that was when Dugger was 14 years old. Nothing was done, all right? It was swept under the rug. And then fast forward a few years. this. We were able to get from this IP address. One specific video of child pornography and one

Starting point is 00:36:34 folder containing approximately 65 images of child pornography from a specific IP address. We served a federal summons for that IP address. That IP address came back to Ozarks Go with a subscriber of Joshua Dugger with cell phone. I'm assuming that's personal cell phone with that email address that you just mentioned. So Dr. Methody, it started that we know of, of him molesting his sisters at age 14. That's when we find out about it. And then fast forward when he's got a wife and a family, he's downloading child porn. Sound familiar?

Starting point is 00:37:12 So does this start when you're a child? Yes, it does. Pedophilia is considered like a fixed arousal pattern that is there from birth. Now, it's hard to really measure because children under the age of, five, six, or seven, don't draw sexual images, don't talk about sex. So it doesn't really emerge until later in life, but you know, the most common age of a child molester is age 13. And Josh Dugger was 14 at this point.

Starting point is 00:37:40 And the reason for that is that's when they become aware of sex, and that's when they begin to molest, and that's when they have access to siblings, to classmates, to things like that. But see, we see again here that the community protected him, and he went on to molest even more. Well, speaking of the community protecting him and someone being famous who's actually child molester, do I even have to say former Subway Sandwich Pitchman,

Starting point is 00:38:11 Jared Fogel, listen to Fogel, caught on tape. You guys appreciate some of the middle school. I love the middle school, and the girls are starting to get a bit, you know? Yeah. Because you know how much I love to . You know, I love him to . Mm-hmm. Guys, did you hear Jared Fogel, the subway pitch guy, he lost 245 pounds eating nothing but

Starting point is 00:38:32 subway sandwiches and appeared in like 300 subway commercials, superstar? Yeah, especially at some of the middle school. I love middle schools. The girls are just starting to get boobs because you know how much I love big boobs? You know, I love huge tits. If I heard my son say the word tit, I don't care if you. he's six-foot-six. I would wash his mouth out with soap. And it goes on and on. I just played you a little snippet of this purve. Jared Fogle. The Dugers. What they? And now this coach,

Starting point is 00:39:11 who, by the way, is innocent until proven guilty. I want to talk about the search to Irv Brandt joining us. Former Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations Branch. Do you remember the glam yoga coach? Remember her, Caitlin Armstrong? She murdered a world-class dirt bike rider, gorgeous young girl. Yeah, there's the yoga instructor right there. And she was spotted on airport video, and it was totally her. Oh, there you go. With her yoga mat, ding, ding, ding. It's me, everybody. Here I am, the yoga instructor with a yoga at. So I guess the first thing you do is go to the airports, Irv. That's exactly right, Nancy. And as you were talking about this, this was the first

Starting point is 00:40:05 case that came to mind was Armstrong case. When you start a fugitive investigation, you don't start it on any assumptions, an unreliable witness saying that, I mean, you investigate all possible leads, of course, but you don't, you know, concentrate your entire efforts, you're going to put out the bolos to different states, you're going to flag passports, you're going to check DLs, you're going to look for all vehicles associated with the suspect and also the suspect's family and also the suspect's friends to see any of gone missing. And just like in the Armstrong case, it wasn't her passport that they found had left the country. It was her sister's passport that had left the country, and she was still in the country.

Starting point is 00:40:59 So it's very similar. The cases, the way it's conducted, goes along those same lines. You're going to look for financial means. You're going to search for tags on known vehicles. You're going to use every investigative tool that you have conducting this search locally, then nationally, then eventually internationally.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Well, yeah, and a way to do that to Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA nationwide security, I want to find out this. How's he used his ATM? When was the last time he used his ATM? Where did he use it? Do I have a picture? How much did he withdraw? Did he do repeat withdrawals?

Starting point is 00:41:48 Because, you know, some ATMs you can only get, say, $200. at a crack. Did he go into a line of credit to get more money? Has he used his credit cards? Where is his car? Has he used a rental car? Did he get a rental car, even in an adjoining county beyond Wise County? Do we have video? What about license plate grabbers? I haven't heard a word about his car being missing. That tells me he's not in his car. He may be in another car. And also, this search, if they have brought out drones, cadaver dogs, scent dogs, everything, shoulder-to-shoulder searches, you name it, that tells me he wasn't in the woods to start with. So where is it?

Starting point is 00:42:38 He's not on foot. I can tell you that much. He's not hiding out at somebody's house, a sympathizer. So where is he? Where do we start? Neal in a haystack. Well, what Irv Brandt just brought up is a very prescient point here. The financial means that Travis Turner has are probably not great.

Starting point is 00:42:58 So this, you know, how is he going to access funding to be on the run for long? Put him up. So that's something. You haven't heard of a line of credit? I certainly have. You get a line of credit on your checking account, you get 100 grand out of a line of credit and be gone. Yeah, I just think that, you know, this was an emergent, you know, he was tipped off that they were

Starting point is 00:43:27 coming to his house to speak to him, that this wasn't a planned escape, so to speak. So I think all the signs need to that this happen very quickly. I think that's going to be uncovered, right? Yeah, who knew that they were coming out there to say. speak to him. Who knew that law enforcement was on the way? They're certainly going to have some cell phone records that are available for who called and texts communicated with his phone. And I think that they will uncover that in the coming days here. Okay, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Samantha, the closest airport is in Appalachia, Virginia, the Tri-Cities Regional

Starting point is 00:44:09 Airport. That's in Blountville, Tennessee. Is that right? 59 miles away? Yes. Yes. That is the closest airport. Hmm. To get from his home to there, that's about at least an hour drive. How did he get there if that's where he went? I don't see him flying because wouldn't we have a register of that, Irv Brandt, wouldn't he have already been spotted if he had taken a plane? It depends on the flight, Nancy.

Starting point is 00:44:40 Of course, when you're flying domestically, all you need is a government ID. then investigators could check with TSA to see if he used a valid government ID to get into the airport. If he flew internationally, of course, there would be a record of that in text, the Treasury Enforcement. I don't see him flying. Do you, Irv, I think he's somewhere else. I don't think you took a flight. I would not. No, Nancy, like your other guests had said, it doesn't seem like. This was planned out in advance. It was something that happened at the spur of the moment. So most fugitives are going to avoid places

Starting point is 00:45:26 where there's camera security police officers and there's hardly any place in the country that has more cameras and more police and more security than an airport, and especially in international airport. Yeah. So Samantha Allen, what's the temperature? What's your low overnight?

Starting point is 00:45:45 in that area. Oh, gosh. It is like, it's probably reached about 26 degrees. And it is, we got cold happening, so it's like freezing cold rain. So he is not out in the woods, roughing it. I don't need to find out if he has taken camping gear with him. He's somewhere else. He's probably holed up at a local hotel motel hiding out, not too close, not

Starting point is 00:46:15 too close, which means he's got help, Brian Fitzgivens. They better have a tap on everybody's phone because you know Daddy's called home. Yeah, certainly. And one piece that I want to add here, Nancy, that I think we haven't really covered too much. These charges are umbrella terms that are going to be standard for any time someone's charge with possession of explicit child material. So this could have been something he found online, but I think it may be more likely that it's somebody from that high school, right? So investigators are going to be on, it could have been a text message exchange or things like that. So investigators are going to be unraveling a weave of a network of people that knew about this, that have communicated about it. So in the coming

Starting point is 00:47:05 days, I think we're going to learn more about exactly what type of material it was, what the origin was and that network could shed some light on where you might. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mark Tate, you know what the defense is going to be because it's really hard to argue. That's not my computer in my office

Starting point is 00:47:35 behind the locked door. He's going to have to say, oh, it just popped up. You know, in all the years that I do research, I've never had child porn pop up, not once. It's not a very good defense, and I think possibly they're going to have to, if he ever gets indicted and ever is found, I think that a more creative approach is going to have to possibly be found and maybe find a way to cross-examine the forensic folks who are going to found this material and say other people had passwords. show that, maybe show other people that access to the computer at work. But I think it's found on your computer. You have to find something else and it just popped up because it just doesn't work that way. And the forensic folks find that. And I know this because we've found this kind

Starting point is 00:48:28 of material, as I've mentioned before, in civil matters against Catholic priests and rabbis and pediatricians. And so it happens. And it does not just pop up on your computer. It's an active search. The searches are traceable. And so that defense is a failure. But again, this guy is still wandering and everybody's focused on airports and now type of security is there. Nancy, but there's an Amtrak station in Bristol. And those avenues like Amtrak are far less secure than an airplane. But all of it gets back to getting him indicted and then getting him in front of a jury with a lawyer who can craft something to have one

Starting point is 00:49:13 juror say, I've got a reason to doubt these charges. It's going to be an interesting trial. You're right about Amtrak. I look forward to it. And Amtrak is cheap. And you don't have to go through a lot of security. I don't know that you even have to show ID to buy

Starting point is 00:49:29 a ticket in cash. You can go on Amtrak. Yeah, all the way across the country. of course, which would leave somewhat of a trail if they've got video surveillance in the Amtrak station, but you could go all the way across the country

Starting point is 00:49:45 for under $200 without a trail, a trail that you would leave at the airport. But, you know, Mark Tate, this is not the first time Union High School has had to deal with sex allegations against a coach or teacher, right?

Starting point is 00:50:02 That's exactly right. I think that's fascinating. That's the kind of thing, obviously, that plaintiff's lawyer, a lawyer pursuing civil remedies for this kind of thing, looks to. And this high school has this fellow, another football coach, Timothy Lee Metter, who pled guilty or was convicted of child solicitation, of soliciting a minor for sexual or inappropriate purposes. So it's not the first time that that union high school has had a problem. And, you know, there may be a deeper issue involved.

Starting point is 00:50:34 obviously that's something that should and will be investigated. What exactly is going on there? Why is this a repeat situation? The metter guy was about 20 years younger than the actual head coach. But there's something bizarre at that high school from my viewpoint trying to hold people accountable other than this man who has disappeared. And you know, another thing about what you're saying, Mark, is the same lawyer, the same lawyer. the same lawyer who represented Timothy Metter, the previous coached last teacher at the same high school that pled guilty to Indecent Liberties with the minor. He got a light sentence about a year and three months and then he was out free.

Starting point is 00:51:22 He gets a slap on the wrist, same high school, and now this happens. And within the same school district, which is Wise County, the same county, there's another. guy, a teacher, arrest on three counts, carnal knowledge. That was Tyler J. Tibbs, a social studies teacher at Coburn Middle. So, you know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, that makes it worse as far as the Union High goes, because they should have been on high alert after Meadows. Yes, they should have. There's two kinds of cultures when it comes to these kinds of crimes, a culture who supports the children and a culture, like what we saw in the Catholic Church, who support. the adults and cannot believe that a child molester is a child molester.

Starting point is 00:52:07 But Nancy, I want to go back to him being a fugitive. I am going to guess if the family hired the same attorney that they knew that there was an investigation going on, that the family was talking about this. And the family probably has information on dad, father, spouse, on whether or not he was making any preparations that were unusual or out of the ordinary. for him. Like, as you said, getting cash. Was he talking about other states? Anything like that, they could be a treasure trove of information. As we go to air tonight, football coach Travis Turner is presumed innocent. His team has gone on to win again. They remain undefeated, even in his absence.

Starting point is 00:52:57 if you know or think you know anything about what happened, if you know a child that may have been a victim, if you know where he is or where he's headed, if you think you've seen him, please call Virginia State Police 276-484-9483, or you can always call the U.S. Marshal Service, 1877 Wanted. That's one, eight seven, seven, nine, two, six, eight, three, three, two. There was a $5,000 reward for Travis Turner. And now we remember an American hero, guard member Sarah Bextram, West Virginia National Guard, just 20 years old, shot in the line of duty, leaving behind her grieving father, Gary. American hero, guard member, Sarah. Bextram. Nancy Gray signing off. Goodbye, friend.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - US MARSHALS MANHUNT: COACH TRAVIS TURNER VANISHES IN MOUNTAINS W/GUN

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